encouraging sign for rubio but on the other hand every election's a little different. >> fascinating. john lapinski, this is our best view yet of what's going to happen tomorrow. thank you, my friend. appreciate it. >> thanks. some call his michigan win stunning. even a major upset. >> i have a feeling that you want a political revolution. >> bernie sanders looks to pull off more surprises tomorrow, in what is shaping up to be another super tuesday. >> if there is a large voter turnout, we will win. >> but before those votes are cast, he makes one final pitch to ohio. >> this is a campaign of the people, by the people, and for the people. >> this is an msnbc special town hall with senator bernie sanders. from columbus, ohio, here is chuck todd. [ applause ] >> good evening. and welcome to the msnbc town

hall with senator bernie sanders of vermont. we are in columbus, ohio, on the campus of the ohio state university. home, of course, of the buckeyes. tomorrow is a huge day in the presidential race. voters in five states goes to the polls tomorrow, including missouri, north carolina, illinois, florida, and of course, right here in the biggest battleground state of them all, ohio. senator sanders won a surprising victory in michigan last week, and could do very well tomorrow. let's get started. and welcome senator bernie sanders to the town hall. [ cheers and applause ] >> good evening. you know to always say "the." did you fill out your brackets?

are you a big -- did you fill out your brackets? do you do a march madness pract? >> i've been a little preoccupied. >> let's get started with the tone of the campaign. marco rubio this morning said the following. we are now a nation where people hate each other. it was sort of a stark and obviously he's reacting to the donald trump rally. >> i don't agree with that at all. i understand where senator rubio is coming from. what he is disturbed about, and what i am disturbed about is we have a major candidate for president of the united states, donald trump, who is literally inciting violence among his supporters. when he says that he's prepared to pay the legal fees for somebody who sucker punches somebody, what he's really essentially saying is, go do it, supporters. go beat up people. >> a permission slip? >> absolutely. it's more than a permission

slip. it's an enticement, saying you can beat up people. that's what this campaign is about. don't worry about it, i'll pay the legal fees. that is outrageous. i think senator rubio, look, i have a lot of differences with sthor rubio, but we live in the same world. violence is not part of what politics is supposed to be about. i've got to tell you, we've had huge rallies all over this country. five rallies today. and, you know, we don't -- we just don't -- >> what do you do with protesters? every major candidate gets them. >> what you do is have security escort them out, period. that's okay. people don't have a right to disrupt rallies, but nobody intimates there's going to be violence against that person. that's absolutely wrong. >> look, donald trump's been pinning the blame on you for all this. let me just play that sound and get you to react to it. >> that's a bernie supporter, folks. were you put in here by bernie? get out.

out. bernie, bernie, our communist friend. they had all professionally made signs. they're holding them up. it says bernie on them. bernie. it's organized by the group that endorsed bernie. >> senator sanders, i think he's actually referring to move-on. >> sure. >> any role your campaign played in this? >> absolutely not. my supporters will do this and do that, there was zero effort on the part of our campaign to organize any disruption at trump's campaign. i've got to say this, and, you know, if you know me, i've never run a negative tv add a in my life. we respect our opponents. i know marco rubio and i know ted cruz. and all these guys. but with trump, what you are dealing with, and i say this without any joy, this guy's a pathological liar.

>> what do you mean by that? >> what i mean by that -- >> politico had a piece in the paper that it's hard to fact check them because he never has any facts. he just -- you know, bernie sanders is a communist. that's total absolute complete lie. he goes on from there. it is very difficult dealing with some guy who lies all the time. and what i think senator rubio and many of us feel is this is a guy inciting violence. but let's get beyond mr. trump and deal with the issues facing the american people. >> here's what's got to be uncomfortable. on a couple of issues, and they're not small issues, particularly here in ohio, you and donald trump share the same issues on, for instance, trade. i've gone to your rallies and his rallies. if you ask him if not trump or sanders, i'm not saying a majority of his or yours, you hear sanders supporters saying i like what i'm hearing from trump, and vice versa.

>> let's deal with it. the difference of one of the major differences between secretary clinton and myself is our viewers on trade, and the record we have on trade. chuck, i was elected to the house of representatives of vermont in 1991. i could see in five minutes that these trade agreements were written by corporate america, that their major function were to allow corporate america to shut down in ohio, shut down in vermont, by the way, move to low-wage countries, and bring the products back into the country. not only did i vote against all of these trade agreements, nafta, and all of those, i was on the picket lines in the early 1990s. and secretary clinton, on the other hand, supported virtually all of these trade agreements which have turned out to be an unmilt gated disasters --

>> she's on your side on this. >> she's now on my side on many issues. but the question is, where were you when it mattered. when it mattered in the 1990s was to say, sorry, we're not going to create trade policies that will throw millions of american workers out on the streets. by the way, it is not only the loss of millions of jobs because of nafta, where companies are searching for cheap labor around the world. there's something we don't discuss, and that's the race to the bottom. recently there's been a little uptick in manufacturing in america. that's a good thing. many of these new manufacturing jobs are now paying significantly less than they used to pay 20 or 30 years ago. >> the global competitive -- >> no, the trade policies by which corporations are now able to say to woshers, look, chuck, you have a choice, we'll take either a cut in your wages and health benefits or we're moving to china. what's your choice. disastrous trade policies.

if elected president of the united states, i will significantly change those policies. >> there's another aspect of these trade deals, and that is, they do help raise people out of poverty in third-world countries. so there is that as expect of it. this is something you've been fighting for all your life. >> it is my hope that everybody in our country understands that there's massive poverty all over the world. it is a wealthy nation along with europe and other wealthy nations, i do believe we have a moral obligation to lift up the poorest people in this world. but you can do it without destroying the middle class of this country. so count me in as somebody who will work day and night with other major countries to help poor people. but you do not have to drive wages down and throw american workers out on the street. that is a big difference between secretary clinton and myself in terms in our record. >> if she's the nominee against donald trump, is that an issue?

to you think that's a -- >> let me tell you something that i think objective political scientists would agree with. it's not just in the last nbc poll, we were 18 points ahead of trump, i think clinton was, what, 13? >> 11 to 13. >> and that is true of most of the polls? you both win. >> let me finish. we almost always, not always, but almost always do better against trump than she does. sometimes by big numbers. what i think objective political scientists would tell you, in a general election, we will, of course, get the vast majority of the democratic votes, but we will do better with independent voters. we will in fact get those voters in the midwest who are concerned about trade. why would you vote for hillary clinton if she supported virtually all of these trade agreements. >> if you could go to a trump

rally, forget we talk about the other parts of it, but they are concerned about the same issues. >> sure. >> but they're going to him and not you. how do you convince them to come to you? >> hold it, we're getting -- we are getting millions of people >> i understand, but -- >> this is what i would say. by the way, in -- you know, you've heard me say this before, that i think the media has not done a good job in discussing why the middle class of this country is disappearing and why we have more income wealth and inequality than any country on earth. let's say you're a 50-year-old guy, and your job west to china. you know what? you're really angry, because now you have a job that maybe pays you 50% or 60% of what you had. you can't afford to send your kid to college. you're angry. and you're seeing almost all new wealth and income going to the top 1%. an issue you guys should talk

about a little more. >> fair enough. >> you're angry. then trump comes along and says, you know what, angry, you should be angry, it's the fault of the muslims. it's the fault of the mexicans. well, problem is, that is racism, that has nothing to do with the real causes of the problem. what i say to the trump supporteders, i say, do you understand that donald trump thinks the minimum wage is as high as it should go? they'll go, really? that's a starvation wage. i say, did you hear trump on a national republican debate where he said wages in america are too high. really, too high? that trump believes climate change is a hoax. emanating from china? really? no kidding. that's pretty crazy. that trump wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to family, billionaire families like

himself? i didn't know that. in other words, it is not just that i think we will defeat trump, because the american people do not think we should be divided up. this guy has insulted mexicans, muslims, women. he's insulted veterans. john mccain, a war hero. the american people are not going to vote for somebody like that. >> let's go to questions here. kevin has the first question for you, sir. >> throughout your career in congress, you ran as an independent while caucusing with the democrats. i'm curious what went into your decision to run for president as a democrat. wouldn't it be more revolutionary to work outside the political structure and run as -- >> the problem is, chuck would not have me on his program if i did that. >> that's not true. we love independents running. the more the merrier. >> you're right, i am the longest serving independent in the history of the united states congress. and when we gave some thought to running for president, and the reason i gave thought honestly

is not because i disrespect secretary clinton. i've known her for 25 years and i respect her. but i just happen to believe that in this moment of history, it is too late for establishment politics and establishment economics. we did have to make that decision. do you run as an independent, do you run within the democratic party. we concluded, and i think it was absolutely the right decision, that a, in terms of media coverage, you have to run within the democratic party. number two, that to run as an independent, if you're a billionaire, you can do that the i'm not a billionaire. the structure of american politics today is such that i thought the right ethic was to run within the democratic party. as you've indicated, i've been a member of the democratic caucus for 25 years, house 16 years, senate 9 years. obviously i've been one of the strongest opponents of the right-wing republicans.

>> thank you very much, kevin. you talked about your campaign as a revolution. the turnout excitement is happening on the republican side. it hasn't happened on the democratic side. we haven't seen the high turnout numbers that you wanted. >> that's absolutely incorrect. we had -- look, when you talk about that, you're comparing us to 2008 and barack obama. barack obama ran a campaign that was unbelievable. it was one of the great campaigns in american history. all right? but you know what? despite that -- >> a revolution? >> well, in terms of the nature of his campaign, they ran out of ballots. you remember that. in kansas, actually, the numbers in the kansas caucus were higher this year than they were in 2008. if maine, they were higher. in michigan, the highest turnout since 1972. colorado, i think it didn't break the record, it came pretty close. so in fact, if you only want to compare us to 2008 which was the

exception, okay. but in fact the turnouts have been extraordinary in this campaign and i'm proud of that. >> the next question comes from christian gray. >> my question is, super kel gates make it possible for a democratic candidate to win the nomination without winning a majority of votes. in this election particularly, it's been a large contributor to ideas about secretary clinton's inethdability. i feel hike super delegates do the opposite of empowering democratic voters like myself. so my question is, what can democrats like me do to fix this process? >> this is what you can do. thank you, that's an excellent question. i fully concede to what everybody understands. secretary clinton is the candidate of the establishment. all right? so she has all of the governors, almost all of the mayors, and all the congressmen, all of the senators, it is true. and many of them are super delegates. but here is what is really weird.

we won new hampshire by over 20 points. we have to take on the governor, and we had to take on the united states senator. and yet it is likely that super delegates in that state will actually vote, or intending to vote for secretary clinton despite the fact that the people in that state have spoken very strongly for me. we're seeing that around the country. so to answer your question, i think what people should be saying to super delegates, look, if bernie sanders wins the state with a big vote, why don't you vote with the people of your state. because your point is a good point. what does democracy mean? i know legally they have the right to do that. but if we -- one of the goals of my campaign, when you talk about a political revolution, is to bring new people into the political process. young people, working class people who have in a significant way given up. it is hard to do that, if they come out and vote, we win the state and you've got super del gates voting for secretary clinton despite the fact she may

have lost the popular vote about i a big vote. >> if you're the democratic nominee, you'll have a lot of power at the convention. will you scrap super del gates? >> scrapped is -- >> significantly reduce? >> what i'm trying to do in this campaign is to revitalize american democracy, to get americans involved in the political process so we do not have one of the lowest voter turnouts in the world, rather as i would like to see, one of the highest voter turnouts. it's a funny thing, we have rallies, thousands of people come out. i would say 95% of them have never been to a democratic party meeting in their lives. i want to bring young people, working class people in, because in my view what you've got right now is a congress that is vigorously representing interests of the billionaire class, not ordinary americans, and the way we change that is to

bring millions of people in to say to congress, you know what, represent us, not just campaign contributors. >> all right. well, with ehave to pay a few bills, so we'll sneak in a break. >> you'll go to your wealthy corporate sponsors. >> i don't know who the corporate wealthy sponsors are, but we'll sneak in a break here. when we come back, we're going to talk more about trade, more about education, particularly student debt and the cost of collegement. you're watching msnbc and a bernie sanders town hall. (gasp) shark diving! xerox personalized employee portals help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing? cliff jumping! human resources can work better. with xerox. which allergy? eees. bees? eese. trees? eese. xerox helps hospitals use electronic health records so doctors provide more personalized care.

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welcome back to the ohio state university, yes, even i will say we're all buckeyes for a day, a the least right here on the campus in columbus, ohio. senator bernie sanders is here. we're going to jump right back into the town hall. and i believe mary beth beasley has the next question on a topic we've already been touching on.

>> hello, senator sanders. thank you for taking our questions. i'm wearing a buckeye necklace here. these buckeyes were made in the usa. and i want to ask about trade. obviously as you were just speaking a moment ago against nafta, you've spoken against many trade agreements, i want to ask specifically what changes would you make to these gremts and what could you offer our trading partners that would motivate them to accept these changes? >> look, trade is a good thing. we live in a global economy. but we cannot continue to have trade agreements written by corporate america that only benefit corporate america. we have to have trade agreements that are mutually beneficial, that work for american workers, that work for people around the world. and i think we can in tems of agriculture, in terms of manufacturing products. i think we can do that. but this is what i do believe. it is simply unfair to ask american workers to be working against people, say, in vietnam where the minimum wage is 65

cents an hour. that is unfair. now, chuck raised an important question, are we concerned about poverty around the world? i am. but there are ways that we can help address those problems without seeing the loss of thousands of factories in this country. since 2001, we have lost almost 60,000 factories, and millions of jobs. so to answer your question in a broad sense, i believe in fair trade, not unfetderred free trade where american workers are forced to compete against oppressed people. >> i'm wondering how we can get concessions. i agree with the unfairness that we've seen. but to get our trading partners to agree to changes, aren't we going to have to -- what can we offer? do we offer things that would help poverty in those countries? i'm just wondering what would be the give-and-take? >> you're suggesting even going outside of a trade agreement. i believe, for example, that

instead of spending quite so much money necessarily on certain weapons systems, i would prefer to have poor people in the world know that schools and health clinics are being built by the taxpayers in the united states. i think that will go a long way to make people aware that our great country is on the side of those poor people, those children who are struggling. there are kids all over this world who die or get very sick, because they don't have the medicine which literally costs pennies a day to deal with diarrhea, and other child illnesses. i want to see the united states lead the world, making sure the kids do not die when they should not die. >> essentially to follow up here, what you're saying is, if you wanted to renegotiate nafta >> yes. >> -- you go to mexico, and so the carrot on this is infrastructure projects for them? >> let me just talk about mexico, okay?

in the early 1990s, i went to mexico. and i went to the area in mexico that is a trading zone. and i saw these beautiful new state of the art factories. and i said, i want to go visit the workers who are working in these factories. i want to go to their holes. you know what, chuck? i couldn't go to their homes. you know why? this is literally true. they lived in cardboard shacks. and back then, they were making 25 cents an hour. that was the trade agreement. i'll never forget -- you know the cardboard you get when you get a dishwasher? that's what they were living in the those are jobs that used to be in america. and what we've seen in mexico, a lot of people living in poverty, people were driven off their farms into the cities, part of the problem with immigration. so, yeah, i think when we develop trade policies, take a hard look at the needs of the people in those countries as well. >> but i guess how do you

incentivize mexico to redo this deal? they like nafta. >> it's the day mexico has a government that is to a large degree representative of their big money interests. we need trade agreements that work for both sides. >> i guess i go back to, you have never supported a trade agreement, at least not yet. but there hasn't been one that you've been able to sign on to. >> that's right. you know what? i was right. >> is there any one that ever be drawn up -- >> of course there is. >> why hasn't it happened? >> why hasn't it happened? because that's the broader issue. >> why hasn't barack obama been able to do it? >> i love the president. he and i have worked together on many, many issues of the he's wrong on the trans-pacific abouter. >> was he wrong on the korea deal? >> yes, as a matter of fact he was. i talked to the uaw last week -- >> they signed on to the korean >> they made a mistake. >> they think they made a mistake? >> yes, this elost many, many

thousands of jobs. it gets back to trade and why we don't raise the minimum wage. why don't we have pay equity in this country. why is our infrastructure collapsing, and republicans want to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top 1%? the answer is, you've got a congress that works for wealthy campaign contributors and not for ordinary americans. and our disastrous trade policies are part of that process. >> let me go to the next question here. a different topic. michael? >> senator sanders, climate change is a threat. but a lot of us ke pend on coal and natural gas jobs. how can you assure that we won't be left behind as we transition to clean energy? >> the two facts that you mention, number one, as a member of the environmental committee, i can tell you, i've talked to scientists all over the world. let's not mistake this.

climate change is real. climate change is caused by human activity. climate change is already doing devastating harm. if we don't get our act together, more krout, disturbances, we have a planetary crisis that has to be addressed of the your point is there are a lot of workers that have jobs connected to the fossil fuel industry. you're absolutely right. i introduced legislation which is the most sweeping, i believe, climate change legislation in senate history. and what it takes into consideration is the need to protect those workers. it is not their fault. that the fossil fuel industry is responsible for in a large degree climate change. what we have got to do is provide a transition for them into other types of jobs. now, here is the good news. the good news is that if we move to energy efficiency, and if we move to sustainable energies like wind, solar, geothermal,

biomass and others, we can create millions of jobs leading the world, selling products. talk about trade. selling products to china, india, russia that will help us significantly cut carbon emissions. but at the end of the day, as a people, we've got to understand, we have a planetary crisis. france a few months ago talked about this planet moving in a suicidal direction. we have a moral responsibility to future generations to address this. we can do it in a way that protects those workers that would be negatively impacted. >> how quickly do we get rid of coal in this country under a sanders presidency? >> i think as soon as we can. >> 10 years, 15? >> i think here's the good news. the good news is that we have seen a significant reduction in the costs of solar panels.

in iowa now, 30 rs, 40% of their electricity is generated from wind. great potential in geothermal i think in many parts of this country. this is the way i look at it. i know people will disagree with me. in world war ii, for example, you know, the united states had to fight a war on two fronts in a very short period of time. and within three years, actually, we had essentially won the war. i look at climate change almost in military tems. i look at the fact that if we do not significantly reduce carbon emissions, there's going to be massive damage done to our planet and our country. >> you marshalled that kind of >> you've got to look at it almost as a war-like -- we are being attacked. and the attack is coming from climate change. you know what that means? that's going to mean more extreme weather disturbances. look at what's going on in california in terms of drought. you'll have, the cia tells us, more international conflict as

people's fight over limited natural resources. now, what really shocks me, and should shock every student here, is you've got a republican party with few exceptions that refuses to even acknowledge the reality of climate change, let alone do something about it. and you know what that's about? it's not that the republicans don't understand science, it is that they are dependent for their campaign contributions on the fossil fuel industry which takes us to the most important issue, and that is the feed to overturn citizens united and end the corrupt campaign finance system. which is, if i may say so, i'm proud, i'm not getting money from the wall street or the fossil fuel -- >> secretary clinton hit you for being a one-campaign issue, and you bring it back to essentially wall street -- >> what i tell you, if you go to my speeches, there are an hour, an hour and 15 minutes, and maybe the one issue is my concern about the disappearance

of the american middle class and the dpro tesk level of income and wealth inequality -- let me finish. >> singularly it is special interests who are at the -- >> who i believe in this great country, of the united states congress is dominated by wall street, and big money interests to have huge influence over the political process, of course i do. i don't think that is in doubt. you've got to not know anything to fought understand that. let me repeat this. secretary clinton has super pacs. she gets millions of dollars from wall street. i get $5 million -- 5 million contributions $25 apiece. >> we will be right back. the bernie sanders town hall in columbus, ohio.

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in just over 24 hours, voting will begin in five crucial states. no primary may be bigger hillary clinton and bernie sanders will win.

mitch has the next question. >> welcome to ohio state, senator sanders. >> thank you. >> my question is, what do you say to the students like myself who may want a career in wall street and big business? it seems like you spend a lot of time demonizing big industry which i see my future in. >> you have the freedom as an american to work anyplace where you want and do what you want to do. and many people gravitate to wall street. where, by the way, let me tell you, you can make a lot of money. they pay pretty good the. but this is what i believe, mitch. i believe that in many respects, the business model of wall street is fraud. and i believe that what they did to this country during the financial crisis was unforgivable. they ripped off the american people. they sold subprime mortgage packages that were worthless.

you may have noticed that just last month, a goldman sachs paid a $5 billion fine to the united states government and other banks did that as well. so what i want to give you a warning, all right? if i'm elected president, what i've said is i think when three out of the four largest banks today are bigger than they were when we bailed them out when they were too big to fail, i believe we should break them up. i also believe we should establish a glass steeg al piece of legislation. i think it's poent for the american people to understand that the six largest financial institutions have assets of almost 60% of the gdp of this country. they issue two-thirds of the credit cards and about one-third of the mortgages. you tell me, if teddy roosevelt were alive today, what would he say. i think he would say they have too much power, too much concentration of power and they should be broken up. i think they're a danger to this country, i really do. politically they have paid billions of dollars to

deregulate. if we had won that, maybe we would not have had that terrible crash. you're free to go where you want. but if i win, you may have to get a job at a commercial bank rather than on wall street. >> you're going to have a career change? >> community bank, rather. >> has he talked you out of it yet? >> not quite. >> i want to ask you about, you demonized wall street donations. you've said faeb who takes them, they're on the wrong side of the fight. is that a fair -- >> i don't like the word demonize. but look, here's the fact. >> is sherrod brown a good progressive? would you call him that is this. >> yes. >> he's taken wall street donations. >> look, the point is, you have a corrupt campaign finance system. let's talk about it. by the way, i would like to see nbc do more work on this. talk about it.

>> you've given me a lot of work to do. >> even if it offends some of your commercial sponsors. >> fair enough. >> okay? do we think as americans that it's appropriate that one family, the second wealthiest family in this country and a few of their billionaire friends, are iffing to spend $900 million in this campaign? do we think it makes sense in america that wall street, which literally has endless supplies of money, is making massive contributions to candidates across the political spectrum? okay. it's not a question of demonizing people. i believe in democracy. i believe that every person here has one vote. i do not believe that wall street, a handful of wall street business people, or the koch brothers should be able to buy elections. i feel passionately about that. that is why i'm going to do everything i can to overturn citizens united. and you know what else i'm going to do? we're going to try to move toward public funding of elections whether people are

conservative or progressive who run for office don't have to beg wealthy people for campaign contributions. bottom line, i think anyone who objectively looks at politics in america understands that a handful of billionaire families have inordinate power over our political life as well as our economic life. >> you would recommend to any progressive, don't take wall street money? >> the reason that good people end up doing it -- >> barack obama, hillary clinton, sherrod brown, you can go down the line. >> i understand. i don't do it. i think what we have shown in this campaign, if you have a progressive message, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, health care for all, making public colleges and universities tuition-free, you can get campaign contributions from working people, you do not have to be dependent on wall street. >> david bowers has the next question. >> hi, senator. i was and still am an early supporter of yours. i'm also a white guy who feels

that america's racism tends to be pretty invisible to a lot of folks who look like you and me. last summer during the net roots event, which your opponent didn't even attend, during the black lives matter action, i cringed a little when i felt you didn't really demonstrate an awareness of how race trumps class in today's america. since then, you've appeared to be growing and deepening a sense and awareness. as i think all of us who tend to not always see privilege must continue to do. the presidency is a pretty tightly controlled bubble. what steps will you take to make sure that you as the world's most powerful white man will continue to be exposed to challenges that help you deepen a sense of the racism that we breed? >> david, i think you raise a fair point, and a good point of the i don't think, by the way, it's race versus class, i think

it's both. i think when you have 35% of african-american kids living in poverty, when you have real african-american youth unemployment and underemployment at 51%, when you have more people in jail than any other country disproportionately african-american, you're talking about classes as well. but in terms of race, let's talk about the fact that we have seen unarmed african-americans shot unjustly by police officers. that is unacceptable to me. and that is why i will lead the effort for real criminal justice reform, because the system is broken right now. now, what does that look like? what it looks like for a start is keeping people out of jail by making sure that our kids, black, white and latino have jobs and education, rather than more jails and incarceration. it means that if any police officer in this country acts

illegally, that officer will be held accountable. it means demilitarizing local police departments so they don't look like occupying armies. it means making police departments look like the diversity of the communities they're serving. it means rethinking the war on drugs. which have been bad for a lot of people, dispo portion atly african-americans. studies indicated african-americans and whites do marijuana equally. blacks are more likely to be arrested for marijuana than whites. it means getting a pass out of jail when you serve your time so that you can reenter society because you have the education, and you have the job training. it means giving felons the right to vote. people who have paid their dues to society should not have their democratic rights stripped away from them. that we're doing everything we can as people to fight

institutional racism. because i hear other and over again from the african-american community they're just not treated fairly within the job market and many other parts of our society. so those are just some. and if people have more questions, please go to my website bernie sanders.com. we have a very long agenda on how we are going to combat the broken criminal justice system. but thanks very much for that question. >> is he right? have you evolved on this issue? have you deepened your knowledge in the last six months? >> you know, one of the very positive things, and joys, if you like, about running for president of the united states is you meet all kinds of incredible people. when you're a senator, you meet a lot of people. but going around the country -- >> seeing america. >> you're seeing the real america. you end up feeling pretty good about it. you're in a room with young people, and young latinos, with tears coming down their eyes,

fearful about being deported. you're in a room talking about people who -- with people who have been in jail. and in fact, went back to jail. and to talk about how we can prevent that. you're talking to women who are saying, why do i get 79 cents on the dollar compared to men? it has been an extraordinary experience. >> senator sanders, we're going to sneak in another break from the special interests. from columbus, ohio, we'll return right after thisment.

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country, especially in trump rallies, it's very disturbing and very sary, especially someone who looks like me. it is clear these people who support trump are not going to have a change of heart anytime soon, even if he doesn't get the nomination. my question to you, what is going to be your approach in uniting the country and in particular how do you address those people who relish in trump's divisive rhetoric? >> well, thank you very much for that important question. and it really is sad that you have to ask that question. that should not be happening in america. i remember we did a rally in george mason university a number of months ago, and a young muslim woman, she was raising her hand, she just wand to ask this question, so i brought her up. and that's what she said, that in america today, she was, you know, in america today she was frightened. that's just not what our country should be about.

people should not be frightened because they are muslims, because they are dark complexioned, because they are mexicans. and what trump has done is really, really awful. so what do we do? for a start, we understand that unlike trump, what america's strength has been, and it's an extraordinary strength, is bringing our people together. i'm jewish. you're muslim. we have -- you're hindu. all right? that's what america is. and we've got muslims here. and we've got latinos here. what an extraordinary opportunity. we've got african-americans, all coming from different cultures, helping to create this great country and learning from each other. what a golden, wonderful opportunity. and that is what historically has always made us great. god only knows we have had problems with racism, and bigotry in this country. about you our vision has got to be to created a nation where we

respect each other, where we love each other, where we do what martin luther king jr. said. he said we judge people based on their character, not on the color of their skin or their backgrounds. that's the america that i believe in. i will do everything i can -- let me give you an example. just a few months ago, i was with keith ellison. keith is congressman from minnesota. he is one of the few muslims in the united states congress. keith and i went to a mosque in washington, d.c., and sat down with muslims there just to make the point that we are not going to let the muslim community or the latino community or any other community feel isolated. we are going to stand together against bigotry in this country. >> thank you very much. we have a history that every time we have an economic anxiety, that there is somebody that takes advantage of it saying, blame that immigrant group, blame that one. it's sadly about a 50-year cycle that this happens.

>> oh, chuck, it's gone on a lot longer than that. >> about every 50 years we have a new group to attack. >> it's going on all over the world. the cheap way of doing politics is to say, you see that minority over there? they're blacks, they're jews, they're latinos, they're muslims, let's hate them. let's not focus on why we are where we are today. that is why i get criticized for it. but what i try to do is have a rational discourse about why the middle class of this country is disappearing. kr people are angry that they're working longer hours for lower wages and see almost all of the income and wealth go into the top 1%. by the way, that does get us back to wall street. it gets us back to the disastrous trade policies. it gets us back to the fact that we have not raised the minimum wage to a living wage. and what our campaign is about is about bringing people together to address the real economic issues and not scapegoating minorities.

>> we're going to sneak in one more break here. we're coming up to the end. the bernie sanders town hall on the campus of the ohio state buckeyes. how was your commute? good. yours? good. xerox real time analytics make transit systems run more smoothly... and morning chitchat... less interesting. transportation can work better. with xerox. thank you for calling. we'll be with you shortly. yeah right... xerox predictive analytics help companies provide a better and faster customer experience. hello mr. kent. can i rebook your flight? i'm here! customer care can work better. with xerox. wait i'm here! mr. kent? ♪uh. introducing centrum vitamints. a new multivitamin you enjoy like a mint... with a full spectrum of nutrients... new centrum vitamints.

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final town hall before what we're calling separation tuesday, five big states are voting tomorrow. and we're here in columbus, ohio, with senator sanders. senator, i just want to wrap up with, there's an interesting piece of political satire on, i think your new favorite new program these days, saturday night live, but it had an interesting not so subtle message. >> you're fired up, you're angry, and i'm angry, tooment because the top 10% of the top 1% control 90% of the wealth in this country. so thank you for lending your support to the biggest outsider jew in the race. hillary rodham clinton. >> obviously the point being, she is taking your message and adopting it. you were joking about it earlier. but isn't that a sense, do you feel a sense of victory on that? >> well, i mean, i think secretary clinton is catching on

to where the american people are. and she has evolved on the keystone pipeline. she's evolved on the trans-pacific partnership. she has apologized for supporting the war in iraq. she's apologized for supporting this homophobic legislation of the 1990s. i guess one can get satisfaction from seeing her move closer to our positions. but i think what the voters have got to decide is, will she be apologizing 20 years from now for actions she takes today. what leadership is about is having the courage to do the right thing now, even if it's unpopular. and i think if you check my history, that's what i've done. >> i'm going to leave it there, senator sanders. thank you for participating. thank you to a great group here. stay safe on the trail. stay with us here at msnbc. the place for politics. you don't want to go anywhere.

we'll see you later. have a good night. [ cheers and applause ] well, someone had to do it, and politico has now done. an official count of how many lies donald trump tells per speech. one of politico's counters of trump lies will join us. and with what might just be 24 hours left before the collapse of the republican party, guess what donald trump says about the violence occurring at his campaign events. hint. according to politico, he tells at least one lie every five minutes. >> we begin with the u.s. election, or as you may know it, the holy [ bleep ] please make it stop trash fire two thousand [ bleep ] 15. >> how many people have really been hurt during this whole