court justices themselves really respect him. >> well, he comes from that court. he is the chief judge of the district court. >> john roberts likes him as we learned. >> to some conservatives might be a negative. >> because john roberts is -- >> perry, jennifer and tom. punch drunk wednesday. we'll be back tomorrow, "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm mark halperin. >> i'm john helemann, with all due respect to fox news, you're in the no debate zone. happen y merrick garland goe search day. court of appeals judge, merrick garland to the supreme court. three quick garland facts. number one, he previously enjoyed support from both

parties. of the he was a doj prosecutor, and number three, he used to read comic books, but now relaxes reading stuff about constitutional law. the president pressed republicans to give him a fair shake, even though it's an election year. >> to suggest that someone who has served his country with honor and dignity, with the distinguished track record of delivering for the american people, might be treated as one republican leader as a political pinatta, that can't be right. tomorrow, judge garland will travel to the hill to begin meeting with senators one-on-one. i simply ask republicans in the senate to give him a fair hearing. and then an up or down vote. >> the standoff for the supreme court vacant seat going on for weeks, ever since justice scalia

passed away. leaders from both parties dug in their heels, mitch mcconnell, according to a state called garland today, told him the senate will re-visit the matter and wished him well. mcconnell also said this, on the senate floor. >> it is the president's constitutional right to nominate a supreme court justice. and it is the senate's constitutional right to act as a check on a president, and withhold its consent. president obama and his allies may now try to pretend this disagreement is about a person. but as i just noted, his own vice-president made it clear, it's not. it seems clear president obama made this nomination not, not with the intent of seeing the nominee confirmed. but in order to politicize it for purposes of the election. >> mark, the conventional wisdom before this pick and even more

so with this pick is he is trying to pick someone hard to snub. how is it boworking out. >> i thought if the president went with a nominee who had a more, maybe a more compelling resume, a personal story, although merrick garland is more compelling, you're already seeing a few cracks in the republicans, you're seeing people willing to meet with garland, who previously were noncommitt noncommittal, and republicans -- democrats strategist believe the chairman, senator grassley. senator grassley and senator mcconnell both are digging in saying no hearing, no reason to even meet. but i believe the democrats are right. they may be able to get grassley to slip and hold a hearing and i think they can get him confirmed. while grassley hasn't moved, other republicans can.

>> right. it's true, we've seen susan collins, i think we'll see some republicans up for reelection might be a political problem. merrick garland is a washington insider. a rare moment when barack obama is playing the belt way inside game. this is a guy who has a lot of conservative friends, including john roberts, worked with republicans on the court. >> praised him? >> correct. this is a -- if you weren't going to pick someone like brian sandoval, feel uncomfortable about not giving this guy his due. a lot of them have voted for him, mark. i think the president has made a smart pick for a variety of reasons. we'll talk about it more in the next topic. you can see, not a lock step thing. >> watch iowa democrats, iowa republicans "des moines register" crank up the pressure on grassley and see if he folds.

it's safe to assume his wikipedia page got an update. harvard graduate, fellow midwestern from chicago, and in his first remarks to the nation, garland himself gave us a little more bio. >> left the border of western russia and eastern europe in the early 1900s, fleeing anti-semitism and hoping to make a better life for their children in america. they settled in the midwest, eventually making their way to chicago. there, my father, who ran the smallest of small businesses from a room in our basement, took me with him as he made the rounds to his customers, always impressing upon me the importance of hard work, and fair dealing. >> all right, so this is president obama's third opportunity to nominate someone for the supreme court. the first two he nominated were women. and already, there are progressive groups like

democracy for america, frustrating that the president picked a liberal nominee, difficulty to the court. john, you wrote a piece about garland back in 2010 when was under consideration. what does the were essie in garland and was mr. obama too cautious with this pick. >> i don't think so. obama recognizes the fight he is in here. what i wrote about him in 2010 when he was being considered by president obama to replace justice stevens is that he has a quality or an under valued quality of people you put on the court, which is not how far to the left are you, but are you basically progressive or basically conservative and can you bring around people, can you persuade other justices to side with you? he has demonstrated that quality time and again and been able to get conservative justices on the court of appeals here in d.c. to side with him on issues on labor

law, anti-discrimination. a persuasive judge. that was steven's quality and also garland's. obama is playing that game here. trying to get someone like justice brennan, like justice warren to some extent, able to build coalitions on the court. >> i talked to one of the supporters and someone said he is older than nominees have been of late, and sacrificing in the table of the number of years. this person argued, somewhat persuasive, this guy is so experienced, practically got the skills, that right away, john roberts was, an inn flfluential player, so if he does get confirmed, he can have an impact right away, if not for as many years. >> that's exactly right. when we come back, a john kasich classic, on the campaign trail. establishment's last hope in the

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had donald trump won the ohio primary last night, there would be very few things blocking his path, but he didn't win ohio, and now, at least one thing stands in his way, that would be john kasich, the man of the moment for many, who was the only presidential candidate out on the trail today. everybody else was resting. i covered kasich's town hall at villanova, just outside philadelphia this morning. kasich did not talk at all by name about trump or cruz, but he did talk about a lot of other stuff. >> maybe i should tell you a little story. march madness. this wall street thing, pizza, my uncle emil. i don't mean that. the mailman and the mailman's wife.

we went from the smaller to the big one. the ufo, steeler tickets, i love it. that's where superman changed his clothes. some big institution head quartered in new york. ben & jerry's free for one whole year. i said sir, you lived here your whole life. he said not yet. beautiful sh . daddy, can you give us more snow days. because you're the governor, john, dad. life is simple when you keep it simple. s >> that was john kasich today. he talked about some other stuff. he did not make any big dramatic news or remarks. he caught a break today in pennsylvania. they dropped a lawsuit against him so he'll be on the ballot there. at a time when john kasich does need to seize the moment, does he seem to have a plan to change

the dynamics of this race? >> i'm afraid you and i are agree about this. at this moment, i discern no plan. not really much of a clue at this moment either. i thought his performance last night on winning the state, his home state of ohio in his victory speech was uninspiring, and i thought from what i've seen you were at, just totally all over the place. kind of the worst of antic. >> i did a phoner on the "today show," betting against him has been foolish. he has won a lot of elections, including last night. things have come his way. he has made his own luck, he has had luck. doing what he needs to do to make people believe this is a three-person race, to win financial support, endorsements it, to move up in the polls, take advantage, that he does

seem to have a place in the contest for people who don't want ted cruz, don't want donald trump, to make the electability argument, he needs to make nurse, dominate the discussion. he got a great reception. big crowd, right in the heart of kasich country, but nothing to produce national headlines, when he had a day when he could have, only one out on the trail. >> look, he'll have a long time before he has a chance to win again. we don't think he has a chance to win in arizona, utah. those are the two contests next tuesday. it looks to me his chance to put points on the board are two weeks after that. which is in wisconsin. and that's a long time to go, given trump's momentum. a long time now, gives him a chance to build up money and more of the establishment to come on his side if that's going to happen. but you think he would be driving a message too, if he is going to have any chance of advancing his cause. >> i agree. i think there is still time, but today seemed a little bit like a wasted moment. >> yes, 100%.

all right, so as ted cruz tries to rally the anti-trump to his side, they're calling on kasich to quit and calling it a two-way race between him and the donald. after five states voted yesterday, cruz walked away with a big fat goose egg. he almost beat trump in missouri, but north carolina, cruz lost by four. illinois, he lost by eight. iowa -- ohio and florida, cruz placed third. so mark, my question for you, ted cruz has been saying for a while, he is the only one that can beat donald trump. why didn't he do better last night. >> it's surprising, they had a sophisticated strategy to pick up delegates, he didn't do as well as i think they expected him to do. various demographics group. didn't do well with older voters as he might have in north carolina and missouri. people and a lot of the states didn't think he is someone who tells it like it is.

maybe donald trump calling him lying ted has hurt him. strange pattern in rural areas of missouri and north carolina, he didn't do particularly well. in illinois, he didn't do well. and cook county and the suburbs. it's hard to know why he didn't do well, but a lot of groups he should have done better with, he did not. >> look, one of the strengths of this campaign throughout, as you know, micro targeting, ground game. it looked to me if you looked at the exit polls, geographic from state to state, it looked like they had a comprehensive failure in terms of targeting and turnout in a lot of the states, and they didn't do anything like they said what they were going to do. >> yep. jobs and economy, huge issue for a lot of voters. he struggled with voters. he does have a tax plan, but i'm not sure he has convinced people he would restore a good economy. >> right. donald trump did not hold any public events today. did that mean we didn't hear

from last night as o's big winn. here is a sampling. >> reported that you talked to senator mcconnell, am i right that you talked to some other leading republicans in the last few days, including some senators or senate candidates. >> yes. >> who did you talk to in. >> i can't tell you, but i talked to people that you have on your show all the time talking about donald trump, we have to stop him. and i don't mean i called them. they called me. >> what why can't you tell us who it is. >> people all the time talking about stopping donald trump, who are calling me to work out a deal and they want to be involved. >> who are you working with so you're ready on day one. >> speaking with myself, number one, because i have a very good brain and i've said a lot of things. i think we've had enough debates. we've had one 11 or 12 debates. i won the debates, but i think we've had enough. how many times can the same

people ask you the same question. so i was very surprised when i heard that fox called for a debate. nobody told me about it. and i won't be there. no. >> i don't think hillary has the strength to be a great president or to be president. i really don't. in many ways she'll be an embarrassment. she is under federal investigation. shie she would be a major embarrassment for the country. >> that's a lot of stuff. all right, that last one was a web video that trump put out. he tweeted out a storm. two we liked in particular. quote, donald trump tweet, in the last two weeks, i had 35 negative ads against me and i won in a massive landslide.

they should say their dollar sign, exclamation point. another one, yesterday, was amazing. five victories, lying ted cruz had zero. things are going well, exclamation point. trump today got the endorsement of the florida governor, rick scott. all these things he could have done on a beach. he got marco rubio out of the race. now he only faces john kasich and ted cruz. what at this point is most likely to stop donald trump from being the republican nominee? >> i just want to ask you this question. are you sure he didn't do those things on a that? >> the fact that he could dominate the news, create all that stuff, and you know, never be seen. >> yeah. >> pretty amazing. >> look, i mean, look, the only way to stop donald trump, we said this many times, is people are going to have to beat him in various states. i continue to think, and i know we disagree, the current configuration of a three-person

race with kasich able to win some states, cruz in theory able to win some states has a better chance of keeping trump under 1,237. he has to get 60% or close to that, to get a majority of delegates before the nomination contest ends. i think there is a chance that could happen. it's the only way to stop him and it's a better channels of it happening that way or going one-on-one. >> i have gone back and for the on this. i'm not sure. i think it depends whether john kasich starts to claim a fifth or a third of the vote. if that happens, without a doubt, kasich being in the race would be worst for trump. you know, i think the other thing that would need to happen is there would need to be people in the conservative movement who decided that trump wasn't electable. i think a combination of holding him blow 50 and his not improving his polls against hillary clinton head to head is the way that he could be stopped. but those are two big ifs. he is going to start working

ongoing after hillary clinton and try to improve the heads to head. it remains to be seen. all right, we're going to talk about that in the coming days i bet you. when we come back, bernie sanders' performance problems at the polls. performance problems at the polls. a look at the democratic results from last night and what they mean for our future, after this. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene, available as an oral rinse, toothpaste, spray or gel. biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. remember, while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isn't. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth.

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bernie sanders, and his fans. sanders suffered a clean sweep at the hands of hillary clinton, losing five states, including ohio, illinois and missouri, where the polls seemed to be tightening and his economic message seemed to be gaining traction. he didn't do good with two important groups, women and white voters in ohio. compared to michigan in a big upset, sanders' support fell 9% from 45% to 36% among women and from 56% to 47% among all white voters. mark, my question to you is why didn't bernie sanders do better yesterday when he needed to? >> well, those are two groups he didn't do as well. you know, the michigan experience, where he won narrowly, but still won, they hoped would transfer over to illinois and to ohio, and to missouri. there are other groups where he

didn't do as well in those states, as he had done in michigan. i think my guess is that the fact that he couldn't target a single state and that he had to spread out, his television advertising, but also the head to head competition made it harter for him to draw the contrast for voter in those states. there were times he was in the same state as hillary clinton, but michigan was a more concentrated experience and the economy there has been pretty bad, maybe didn't allow -- allowed him to overperform there. a bunch of groups he didn't do as well in these states as he did in michigan. >> yeah i mean, look, i find it, agree with you. i feel that's the case. sanders has the -- the more people that get to know him, the more time he gets to spend with him, they see his tv ads, he tends to perform better. he starts way behind hillary clinton, in almost every state. just in terms of name id still. so they would argue, i think they would arguing is close to what you're arguing. it's not an excuse.

the system now works. the multi primary dates, i think sanders is basically doomed now, but part of the story for sanders is going to be the fact that he didn't compete nearly well enough on nights when multiple primaries were happening, not just last night, but prior to that too. >> hillary clinton's wins last night gave her a big delegate boost, and probably took away probably all of the momentum for bernie sanders coming out of the surprise win in michigan. we have not seen a sweep like this since vince van dyke's sweep in "mary pop pins." trying to control the narrative, friendly states coming up on the election calendar. a lot of caucuses and a lot of states where the electorate might be better for him. so john, at this point, i know you just said you thought he was all but doomed, what could he do to stop hillary clinton's march to the nomination? >> totally unpredictable event

would have to happen, mark. something in the legal realm, political scandal, or her being hit by a bus. look, the math is just the math at this point. he would need to win about 75% of the available delegates left that are being fought for. no scenario i can imagine that he could do that. >> look, if you look at the calendar, if you took away her momentum and looked at the demographics, in theory, he could win every caucus up through, when we get here to new york on april 19th. if he put that scheme together, that would get him plenty of momentum back. people would begin to question things about her viability. i agree with you, take an addition, and it would be hard for him to win all of the states. he has to put together a winning streak. he has to do something to have people, again, question her ability to stop him and put him away. >> right. it's still the math is still the math, proportion representation. the bottom line, he could win

every single one of the states, but he with would need to win by really large margins. right now, he is not winning by those margins. >> for the second time, they raised expectations. they did it in nevada, and they did it last night and he didn't do well enough for people to say yeah, you lived up to expectations. that's a killer. >> yeah, i would say losing five, not doing well enough. deeper dive into the supreme court fight, with two exerts on the topic. ron clain, and nina totenberg, they join us next. a safe sleep s the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. and we are the bug chicks. and i'm jess we are a nano-business. windows 10 really helps us get the word out about how awesome bugs are. kids learn to be brave and curious and all kids speak the language of bug. "hey cortana, find my katydid video".

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joining me now to discuss the president's nomination merrick gar land to the supreme court is ron klain, a veteran of confirmation fights, chief of staff to al gore and joe biden, and nina totenberg. ron, i'm going to start with you. you've known merrick garland for a long time.

you're making the claim that one does not hear often in washington. this was a pick free of politics, really, seriously? >> yeah, i think so, john. merrick has no political following, he is not a historic first of this or that. this is someone who was picked because he was the best person for the job, best nominee to put forward. i think that makes the case for him particularly compelling. the republicans can't argue that the president did this for any kind of political advantage or to make a point orally voters. they can't say anything that this is a person who was nominated because he is a great jurist, a great lawyer, a great person. that's what he stands for. >> nina, i want to ask you, it seems to me that a pick free of politics is still a pick with politics. part of what president obama was doing here was making a pick that would make it difficult for republicans not to give him a hearing, don't you see that as being the case? >> i do. i entirely see that.

i mean, you can see that those who wanted him to make a more liberal choice, somebody younger, somebody who might be there longer, you can argue this round or flat. see, he didn't do that, therefore, it's not political. however, he didn't do it in part because he got a message, i think from republicans, via back channels, that they would probably move this nomination after the presidential election in the lame duck session, and once you get that concession, you can work on other concessions. they're going to work very hard to try to breakdown this idea that this there shouldn't be a hearing and a vote prior to the election, when the president was -- made a nomination in march. >> ron, you're a student of these confirmation tussles, as is nina. i'll ask you first. the key as we discussed earlier, senator grassley, courtesy calls are stepping stone, but the big

thing will he get a hearing. a lot of strategists agree, he has a good chance of being confirmed if he gets a hearing. what do you think flipped senator grassley to possibly a hearing? >> i think it's an incremental process. saying in the senate they'll meet with judge garland. i think once some meet with him, others will. i think once people meet with him, it will be hard to say no to a hearing. look, this is, i understand where polarized country, distinguished and qualified as merrick garland, doesn't get a hearing, it will rub people as unfair and wrong. that will play out. last time i was on here, i made the point that this whole thing is different once there is an actual nominee. once you see mermerrick, tellin his life story, it will be hard for people to say he doesn't even get a hearing.

>> what do you think flips grassley if anything to get a hearing? >> well, it's not going to flip grassley. it has to flip mcconnell, and that's a harder proposition. i don't think people buck mcconnell on things like this, unless there a complete revolution. unless they really think this becomes a major, major electoral issue. i still have a hard time the supreme court is ever a major electoral issue, except for the true believers already decided any way. so, but this is a process. and the white house didn't just release tape of merrick garland talk about being a judge, it released tape of him essentially ground zero at the oklahoma city bombing, and the president talked about that in his remarks. and you could see, actually when the president was talking, you could see that that was the moment when judge garland actually almost lost his composure. he feels very compassionately about being someone to protect

victims and convict the guilty. and that is not -- he is a judge, but he was a prosecutor all his life. they will ride that horse to town. you can be sure of that. >> nina, just following up on your point quickly. there are a couple of republicans that have broken with mcconnell, susan kelly, others, are those meaningful at all, they're not falling in lock step behind mcconnell's posture right now? >> well, kelly iyada is in a tough race. susan collins from the very beginning i think one or two republicans said she thought you ought to meet someone who was nominated. she didn't make any pledges about a hearing or no hearing. but so far, mcconnell has been able to keep his troops in line almost y-- if the nominee does

well, then why not have a vote. and that's what they really don't want to have. so i -- you can see mcconnell's points of view, but the optics of it are really not great. you can tell that in all the public opinion polls. i don't think there is any public opinion poll that in which people think this is a great position. even a substantial number of republicans don't think it's a great position opposing a hearing. >> i do not think the three who said they'll meet with him today are the last three. i think this is like water through the basement wall, it will keep growing, more republicans will meet with judge kbar la garland. >> ron, you've made predictions last time, we'll see if they come true. ron klain, nina totenberg, thanks for being here. how the establishment plans to

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you are -- furiates me. how do you feel about that. >> if they're saying it because they're being complimentary, then i like it. i don't really care about shaking things up, as long as i'm on the right track. i have to have friends and smart people around me to say you're wrong. i'm willing to listen, too. but there is no like orthodox, i'm an unorthodox political figure. >> that was john kasich at a town hall outside of philadelphia. joining us now to talk about the governor and this presidential race, veteran strategist and kasich advisor, charlie black. great to see you. i want you to tell me how you're going to get him to be the republican nominee. >> john, we're getting into an historic convention, nobody has ever seen anything like it since the democrats in the 1920s. john kasich has momentum out of ohio. he is going to win some other primaries in the midwest and

northeast, and maybe even. >> caller: -- california. ted cruz will have 25% and the rest will be kasich delegates or rubio delegates, or even some undecided delegates. it's going to be a wide open convention. as you know, after the first and second ballot, all the delegates are free agents, kasich has a good as chance to win as anybody. >> obviously you're conceding the point that john kasich is not going to be able to be the republican nominee in the straightforward way, he is not going to get to 1,237. >> nobody is. >> that's that i was going to ask you. do you think it's impossible for donald trump to get the majority? >> he'll have to get 60% of all the delegates, and he hasn't gotten any where near that so far. he'll end with about 40% of the delegates, as i say, and cruz will have about 25%, who will be disciplined. trump's people will not necessarily be on second, third,

fourth ballot and kasich will have a good as chance as anybody. when you get to the convention, tho most people care about electabili electability. kasich is electable. >> the thing i'm having trouble following is the notion that it's a slam dunk, that john kasich is going to win states or even be competitive in states. given his poll standing, the lack of enthusiasm that i've been able to detect, how is it you think he is going to win states? >> well, mark, i think what's going to happen, is he now in the spotlight for the first time. and the more people see of john, the more they like him. look at states in the midwest, the northeast and in new york, pennsylvania, delaware, indiana, in a three way race, the more main street has a good chance. john will put himself well as he gets more attention in the campaign. i'm confident he wins a few more

states. but trump still won't go to the convention with a the majority. >> the question of attention, we had the debate scheduled for monday that's now been scheduled, because donald trump said he didn't want to go. you've known him a long time. do you think he'll basically say no more debates, and if so, does that hurt john kasich's chances of getting in the arena and competitive with the other two. >> we would rather have debates, certainly that gives john a good chance for good exposures and shows the contrast between his positive approach and gutter attacks of donald trump. but i don't know, trump may have decided not to do debates, but when he figures out he is not winning, not getting the 1,237, he may go back to it. we'll see. >> it became public you're going to advise john kasich. how long have you been a supporter? >> well, john kasich has been a friend of mine his whole adult life. in this race, there were five or six candidates who i thought were well qualified to be president, who i was personal friends with, so i sat it out

until it narrowed down to one. so last night, well, i told john a day or two before the primary, if he waon and marco lost, so im in. >> you're member of the republican establishment, if there is anything a republican establish. i'm not sure there is, but you would a charter member of it. >> i take it as a compliment. i spent my adult life electing presidents, governors. grassroots guy too. >> john kasich is extraordinary popular, electoral state in the country, why is it he has seen so little support from fellow members of your club, up until now, not very much, but even with the people who have come over, in the past few months, as trump gained strength, kasich did not. where have you all been. >> first of all, kasich started late and he didn't spend time

around washington, but a lot of people signed up early, especially for marco rubio. probably had inside the belt way support than anybody else. but now it's open. you'll see a lot more donors. what really matters is the people out in the field in the primaries, voting in the states, and those 2,400 people who are going to be delegates and will be free agents. >> charlie, wisconsin is in a couple of weeks, and arguably the kind of state where if your theory is correct, start to see progress. is that a state where you think he could finish first or second or should. >> i think he could finish first or second. he needs to campaign there. he is in pennsylvania today, which is another good opportunity for him. his native state. look, even in new york, donald trump is not very popular, once you get outside manhattan or queens. so a lot of state there is that john is going to have a chance to pick up delegates and maybe win some of those states. >> do you suspect in the next

round of polling, now it's down to three, that you'll start to see john kasich get out of the teens and into the 20s or 30s in places. >> i do. i think the more coverage he gets, today's coverage will be difficult, because of the fake supreme court nominee rolling out there, but once he gets more coverage, i expect he wins another primary or two, his numbers will improve. the national numbers are irrelevant. >> do you think in the end, if donald trump were bomb tecome t nominee, don't just say he'll lose to hillary clinton, do you think there is more than? >> more than that. unless something improves his number, he has been 10 to 13 points behind hillary clinton. if he loses, if is he the nominee and loses by ten points, that means in the blue seats, we're trying to defend senate seats, the republican party

dominates the state legislatures and governor ships, we could lose there. what happens is a bunch of republicans stay home if they don't believe in the nominee. >> so but not a threat to the party? >> no, no, the party will be here, and i don't really think donald will be dominating the party win or lose this year. >> charlie black, thank you for coming in. great to see you. when we come back, our man, steve mcman, the democratic race breakdown, and kristin welker. right after this. you can worry about them. you can even choose a car for them. (mom) honey, are you ok? (child) i'm ok. mcmahon. (mom) we're ok. (announcer vo) it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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ever that this may be one of the most consequential campaigns of our lifetimes. the next president will walk into the oval office next january, sit down at that desk, and start making decisions that will affect the lives and the

livelihoods of everyone in this country, indeed, everyone on this planet. >> joining me now, our democratic strategist, steve mcmahon, and another friend, that would be kristin welker. you're over there in the nbc, across town from me, start with you. you've been with hillary clinton a lot during this nomination fight. the math now is pretty daunting for bernie sanders. hillary clinton knows that. bernie sanders knows that. how annoyed is the clinton campaign starting to get with the idea that bernie sanders might stay in the race and cause her problems and spend a lot of money she doesn't want to spend over the next few weeks, couple of months. >> i think there is some concern. they're anxiety to start to pivot to the general election in a real way. we've seen her start to do that on the campaign trail. especially last night, she came after donald trump with some of her sharpest attacks yet. she said we need a commander in chief who will defend us, not embarrass us. having said that the campaign is

jubilant last night. they pulled off a clean sweep. two reasons, one, you have the optics of it. this makes her look like a much stronger front-runner, and then you have the math. the bottom line. she has a huge delegate lead over senator sanders. she has two times what barack obama had over her back in 2008 at some of his strongest moments. they're feeling very confident. focused on locking up the nomination. and to your point, they are anxious to do that, but they're thinking it will happen now more quickly than before last night. >> all right, steve, let me ask you this question. what happened last night? just, i mean, mark and i tried to answer this before, but in your judgment, he won the big upset in michigan. he lost everything last night. what's the explanation? >> hillary sort of, secretary clinton righted herself on the

conversation about trade. bernie sanders had the core of his argument, which was you're getting screwed and the rich people are taking all the money you should have. he moved that michigan to an argument really against the trade deals costing us jobs all across the country, which worked in michigan. hillary clinton saw the power of that trade message, and she is a fast learner and she applied those lessons, and that's what it accounted for. she didn't allow her position on trade to be mischaracterized, they would say, and she, you know, picked up her game. >> kristin, what do you think their attitude is with the upcoming states, a lot of caucuses, more welcoming ground for bernie sanders. what's their attitude whether they need to keep winning or afford some losses? >> they feel like they can afford some losses. they're looking the arizona for example, senator sanders has been spending big in that state. secretary clinton out with her first spanish language

television ad. candidly, they think arizona will be tough. they think the other caucuses states, the primary, some of the caucus states they're facing will be tough. a what they're focused on, they want to win the delegate rich states, like california, like new york. she'll be in connecticut the coming days. they want to keep the losses to a minimum, no doubt about that. but they anticipate that senator sanders there have some wins. i want to add one more note. what you're also seeing is the democratic base being energize dollars in ed in a way we haven't seen. the stop movement, we have to stop him and part of that is by electing hillary clinton, now, and then being energized in the general election. we could see the obama coalition more energized than we've seen them in the primary. that will be the real question mark as we head into the general. >> the sanders campaign called

dead by the media and then michigan happened. if you're inside the sanders campaign now, if he says i need to change the narrative, i need people to think i'm alive, is there anything short of winning contests to change the narrative to at least thriving. >> they can do things like raise money online, which they do very well. we used to do a lot of things in the dean campaign, to suggest momentum, there wasn't as much as we were suggesting. the big rallies and huge crowds, which he continues to draw, give a sense of a candidacy that's very much alive. the delegate counst has to be depressing. they've done this before. they know the math is almost impossible at this point. the question is really how does bernie sanders stay motivated and stay enthusiastic when he knows the chances of winning are, you know, between slim and none at this point. >> kristin, do you think there will come a point when the

clinton campaign will be asking sanders to step aside for unity and to focus as she wants to, to focus on donald trump. >> i don't think we'll see it from the campaign. i wouldn't be surprised if we hear it from her surrogates. they run the risk of really alienating some of sanders supporters. give him the space that she was given back in 2008 if that's what he thinks is necessary. john. >> all right, it's a tricky thing to do this. obama made a slight mistake, one of the few they made, they called on her to drop out. >> ironically, hillary clinton learned from that experience too. she is running the obama campaign, a delegate campaign. racing for delegates, and they don't care if bernie sanders wins one here or there. their eye is on the prize. >> kristin welker, steve, you're great. both of you, thank you. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back.

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bloomberg politics.com, for the 2016 tracker, always has the presidential race. until tomorrow, thanks for watching. sayonara. >> coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. trump is the boss. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. you know who the boss is when you can't start without. any way, donald trump made that clear. no more debates, and there will be no more debates. he cleaned up with four of the five contests, narrowly edging out ted cruz in missouri and north carolina. john kasich with the first win in his home state of ohio. trump's overwhelming victory in florida knockout below to marco rubio. he announced last night he was