a bad news event and it opens up. >> that's been the last six months. >> he'll say something really outrageous. >> and trump's lead widens. >> lucy wouldn't pull it. >> hope you have great friday. "mtp daily" will be back on monday. i've got john kasich, harry reid and mitch mcconnell on sunday. i don't want to miss you then, but "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm al hunt. >> and i'm mark halperin, with all due respect to the pope, who is joining instagram tomorrow, maybe he'll read the comments. good evening, i'm here in salt lake city, where donald trump and john kasich holding campaign events today and the state caucuses take place on tuesday. ted cruz is spending the day in arizona, which has a primary on

tuesday. cruz is holding two events, including one at the u.s./mexico border. marks the first day that the surviving trio of gop candidates are all out campaigning since this became a two-way race. al, what have you noticed so far about the dynamics of this trump, cruz, kasich matchup? >> mark, it's not much different than the trump, cruz, kasich, rubio matchup, or the seven or eight person matchup. it's only been three days. and it's, you know, a little muddled right now. the test will be after arizona next tuesday, when there is two weeks basically with only one caucus going into wisconsin. then we'll see if two-on-one can accomplish what the an anti-facthin. i'm a little dubious. >> most of the people in

republican politics now, i would say a majority, maybe not a huge majority, believe the party would be better to stop trump if it was just cruz. the cruz people certainly think that, publically try to ignore kasich, but the cruz high command wants kasich out of the race. they believe one-on-one race, the data suggests they would win. kasich is slow starting. he did an event on wednesday. which was not particularly powerful. but i think the interesting thing about the dynamic is so far, no one is getting a beat on trump. and cruz and kasich are thinking and talking about each other as they are about the front-runner. >> yeah, i think that's right, mark. but the picture can be more mixed. there are places, particularly where there is proportional representation it may be more advantageous to have kasich in there and some of the northeastern states where cruz may not do as well.

but he may take him on mono o mono. you're right about the cruz people. they point to two primaries last tuesday, missouri and north carolina, which i think we all can agree, if rubio wasn't in, ted cruz would have beaten donald trump. >> i'm super eager to see polling, national polling, which doesn't matter much, but i'm super eager to see it in a three way race to see if kasich is in the game. because he has not done what i thought he would do, which is become the establishment favorite, and coalesce the vote. if we end up in the northeast states, you could see not cleanly a third, third, third, but if kasich gets traction, he could get pro forgsnportional representation. >> if they divide up wisconsin, you know, one wins three ccongrl districts, another three. it usually doesn't work that

neatly. >> mitt romney just put on his facebook page, that he plans to vote for ted cruz here in utah. we'll go back the bell for the late breaking news. that could be an endorsement, but more likely in keeping with the policy he laid out, asked republicans to follow, to vote for the person who has the best chance to beat trump. here in utah, that's certainly ted cruz. >> abt, anybody but trump. >> right. >> mark, you know better than i. does mitt romney have some pull in utah? >> i think he probably does. you know, obviously a huge percentage of electorate is going to be in the mo arrman church. as i said, ted cruz is in arizona, holding a press conference to talk about immigration at the mexican border. he has also got a rally in phoenix later tonight. the cruz campaign is putting tv ads up, including one featuring

the father of a young man who was killed by someone in the country, in this country illegally. arizona has got the most delegates at stake on tuesday. a winner take all state that donald trump is widely expected to win. so al, why is ted cruz spending time and resources in a winner take all state, as he did in ohio and florida, two other winner take all states, playing there, even though he is unlikely to win the state, and therefore, not get any delegates? >> it's the only game in town, mark. i'm not sure he has any choice, when you're 250 delegates behind, you have to play almost everywhere. the cruz people really thought, really believe, i guess, one-on-one, they would have had a real shot at winning arizona, but a lot of those voters have voted, a number, over the last month. i'm sure trump did well there. and i guess the best that cruz probably can realistically hope for is a decent respect able second. >> they think second matters,

they want to make it a two person race. they don't want a situation where trump wins so big that cruz gets lumped in with kasich, or from their point of view, that kasich finishes ahead of crews. they know that being in the national conversation is important. be in the state that is getting coverage. this week, coming through tuesday, arizona will get a lot of coverage. >> i think arizona will get the most coverage, because it's a simple primary. but utah, and then a week later, north dakota, more delegates, and cruz has a pretty good shot in both of those places. i don't know if he'll win, but he is competitive in the caucuses. >> yeah, the other reason that cruz wants to play there is as you see he is doing immigration in his advertising strategy and this big event today, i think the cruz folks believe that they cannot let donald trump own the immigration issue beyond arizona, because it will play big in a lot of other states, and a lot of strategists, ted

cruz and his team feel like they have to go after trump, and it has been a big strength for him. >> lots of luck, ted. >> yeah. all right. donald trump as everybody is watching knows, has a pretty big lead in the delegate count and most certainly expand as he competes next week. yet his republican rivals have been saying, team kasich publicly, cruz more privately, they believe they can beat trump in an open convention, even if he shows up with the most delegates. is the anti-trump under estimating trump's ability to win on a second ballot, if he does not show up in cleveland with the majority? >> mark, it's hard to say, because we don't know who most of the delegates will be yet. most of them will be picked at state conventions or many will be and we're not sure what influence cruz or trump or kasich will have on those

choices. my sense is that i think that trump is a very weak candidate. plough think it may be wrong, but that will affect any chance to win a second ballot. because if he doesn't win on the first and he is perceived as a weak candidate, he'll peak on the first ballot. >> i agree with you. he has three things going for him, not just trump people, but some of the people who would like to stop him. he is a charming guy one-on-one. you can bet trump will get on the phone and maybe in person try to work some of those delegates. two, he has mary bennett, who worked for rob portman, the presidential campaign of dr. carson, who is a pretty savvy operator, focused on the issue, lastly, you could spend money to try to win this fight and trump could spend not very much money by the standards of a billionaire and try to influence the votes of these folks with

presents or other inducements. >> mark, being much older than you, i was able to cover the last time there was a contested convention, which was '76, with ford and reagan. they went in and basically even at the first week of june, and they were trying to pick them off one by one. i think almost everyone agrees. as great a guy gerry ford was, reagan was charming. obviously these candidates, there was a perception, and that key vote they had early on the rules, as to who was more likely to win. i think that probably pulled ford through there, although i think ronald reagan's persuasion would top trump's or anybody else's today. >> let me stipulate that i like and respect both john kasich and ted cruz, and i find them perfectly charming. i will say in the last few days, including some who don't want trump to be the nominee, who say in the kind of schmoozing, trump

would be the superior to those other two guys. >> geez, i wish we could be in the room, mark. >> it's going to be good. we're going to try to get in there. all right, a growing sense amongst the old wc class, that donald trump will be the nominee whether it ends up being open or wins on the first ballot. that has the life blood of the republican establishment, by which we mean the donors, wondering how they can protect republicans in other races, especially when it comes to keeping control of the house and senate, with trump at the top of the ticket. al, how hard will it be for republicans incumbents and challenge challengers, to run with trump? >> well, i think it's going to be difficult in certain places. it depends on where it is. i think the great regret of republicans is that the senate

map of 2014 isn't the senate map of 2016. if it were in places like louisiana, arkansas, kentucky, no problem. it may be a big problem in new hampshire and in illinois and pennsylvania. it depends on whether trump really can en large the electora electorate, reach out to working class democrats. i'm skeptical of that. if he can't, it's going to be a balancing act. mark kirk and others cannot totally dis donald trump. >> look, if trump is the nominee, i think you're going to have the mother of all instances of democratic -- republican candidates having scheduling conflicts on the day donald trump comes to their state. >> yes. >> every time he goes to ohio, rob portman will be busy that day, and it does make it uncomfortable. you recall when president bush

41 was running for reelection, and ed rollins was running the rnc, the campaign committee, you publicly urged to distance themselves. you'll see instructions that they're not running with donald trump. >> a lot of unbreak able dental appointments. >> that's right. busy that day, as they said in annie hall. they've got that thing. when we come back, is bernie sanders helping hillary clinton by staying in the race? intriguing question we'll explore, after this. so when your symptoms start... ...doctors recommend taking non-drowsy claritin every day of your allergy season for continuous relief. with claritin you get powerful, non-drowsy relief 24 hours a day, day after day. and with fewer symptoms to distract you... ...you can focus on the extraordinary things you do every single day. live claritin clear. every day. one week only, save up to $28 on claritin products.

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rachel maddow, sanders dismissed the notion and said it would be undemocratic for him to drop out now. >> i don't want to speculate on what he said or what he didn't say. in fact, i've heard there has been some push back kind of indicating he didn't say that. but the bottom liep is that when only half of the american people have participated in the political process, when some of the larger states in this country, people in those states have not been able to voice their opinion on who should be the democratic nominee, i think it's absurd for anybody to suggest that those people not have a right to cast a vote. >> i said president bush. of course, i meant president obama who made the comments the other night about bernie sanders and hillary clinton. the conventional wisdom has been that the longer sanders stays in the race, the more problems it causes for hillary clinton. she gets pulled more to the left, she has got to spend more money fighting off sanders, and not a general election, and not

focused or preparing for a general election. but there are other voices saying a longer race against sanders actually makes her a better candidate. it keeps her in the news, allows her to be in the news winning contests week after week, and it does not allow the press to start focusing on her weakness. so al, which of those two arguments is the stronger? is bernie in the race good or bad for hillary? >> she had a terrific tuesday. i can't find a whole lot of democratic politicians who believe she has become a better candidate. that is still a work in progress. but this is really by comparative standards, not a bitter race. i don't think it's hurting her much. most of them i think that's where the public is any way. minimum wage and things of that sort, anti-wall street. i don't think bernie will be affected by what the numbers

say. he is in this for a cause, and i don't think that's going to change, no matter what the delegate math. >> yeah, al, i think your answer leads to the real answer to the question, which is it almost doesn't matter. he is staying in. so the notion that she would be better off if he got out doesn't much matter. i think it's also a false choice, even though i posed the question, because i think either could be good for her, as long as she performing well. she has gotten to be a better candidate, she is not there. sanders in the race providing opportunities. but unless she is doing well enough to take advantage of the opportunities, i don't think it much matters either way. all right, in four days, super tuesday number four, quatro. not that super, just utah and arizona, plus idaho voting on the democratic side. and, but, two week after that, two weeks from tuesday, is

wisconsin. that's an important state for both parties historically. that primary has mattered. john kasich and ted cruz are trying to plant their flag there. many believe it could be a state for bernie sanders, it would be part of his march-april come back. then again, it is hard right now to stop both clinton momentum and moment trump. so al, what are the chances that if the front runners win in wisconsin, that one or both nominations could effectively end two weeks from tuesday? >> well, mark, as part of the continuum. on the democratic side, as we said a moment ago, i don't think bernie sanders will drop out no matter what. if he can't win in wisconsin with the leftist tradition, madison and elsewhere, it dents his credibility a great deal. on the republican side, it will be more interesting. because we'll see what a three way race looks like, and that is one that i think is decided basically by congressional

district. if donald trump is able to do as he was in illinois and missouri, sweep the congressional districts, because kasich and cruz are splitting the opposition, then it really will be a much significant step closer to his nomination. >> yeah, i agree. i think you framed it perfectly. what is interesting in wisconsin, john kasich could stay there, a lot of voters there, ted cruz could say there is a lot of voters of his there. of course, every state is good for trump pretty much. it's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. it's possible, i think, that trump could win the state and one of the other two guys could do so poorly, they're effectively out. more likely kasich than cruz, because cruz will go forward. but if say trump and cruz finish strong and kasich back, cruz could use wisconsin to get what he wants, which is a two-person race. >> right. if john kasich is only getting 10% in arizona and not doing well in the caucuses and

finishes a distance third in wisconsin, it's hard to make a case for continuing. >> yeah, absolutely. the other thing about wisconsin is, again, it's got some big cities, it's got a relatively diverse population. it's got the political tradition. you're going to see a lot of media coverage, national focus. it's going to be an interesting contest. again, basically with the exception of some caucuses, a two week run up there. up next, the sheriff and socialist, bernie sanders' run in with the law in arizona, sort of, after this word from our sponsors. i take pictures of sunrises.

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biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. she was there to talk to some of the families who were impacted, she was met by the sheriff who kind of ambushed her. but my wife is a tough lady, and she doesn't take ambushes easily. she asked him about racial profiling. and he didn't have an answer. she asked him about the conditions in tent city and the other abuses that he has perpetuated and he didn't have an answer. and you know what? he cannot have an answer, because what he is doing is unamerican, and uncivilized.

>> that was last night, bernie sanders speaking in flagstaff, arizona, somewhat emotionally. he was referring to a confrontation involving his wife, jane. and the man some people call the toughest sheriff in america, joe arpaio, and the tent city prison in arizona. my partner, john helemann. he joins us now by phone from idaho falls, idaho. let's talk about this event before we talk about bernie sanders reaction to it and the clinton campaign reaction to it. what happened earlier between jane sanders and joe arpaio. >> jane sanders went to the tent city. she went there not intending to go inside, but to survey the conditions. she went there with immigration reform advocates. over the course of the day, sheriff arpaio maybe predict,

engaged in dialogue with her at the tent city, and that became the subject of greater controver controversy. the tone and tenor of that is what we're playing off of. that was the plan for jane sanders to go to the tent city, make some remarks about the need for immigration reform, but he did sort of ambush her. >> so there is the clinton allies, hillary clinton's allies are making a big deal about it, and being critical to jane sanders, somewhat surprising, a, it's somewhat in dispute, and jane sanders has not been out there as an attack figure in any way. what is the argument the clinton allies are making? >> the argument that congressman gutierrez is saying that he should have denounced him to his face. there is a video of her having a polite conversation with him.

she is asking him some tough questions. is he more or less not answering them. they're saying she should have called for his resignation, gotten up in his face, granted him a forum or engaged in the dialogue. i a agree with you, you may say it's bad staff work not to have participated that he might show up there and there might be such a dialogue and have jane sanders ready for that. on the other hand, you know, it is the case that january sandersander -- janua jane sanders is not an attack dog and to hold her to that standard is unfair. >> this is on a raw political level about the fight for arizona, primary is on tuesday, as we said. is this a state where the sanders folks who have mishandled the expectations games in some earlier states, is this a state they think they can win. >> they thought they would win i

think before tuesday. now they're saying things more kind of tamped down. she is way ahead in the early vote. the young vote is not showing up in the early vote. a lot of early votes already in. so between the clinton long time strength in that state and her strength with hispanics and with older whites, looking at the early vote and looking at the stay of play there, especially after tuesday, where she has a lot of momentum, i don't think the sanders campaign now thinks they can win arizona. they're trying to keep it close. >> okay, john helemann covering bernie sanders, john, thank you. up next, republican strategist, ed goaz and the effort to stop donald trump, after this. hydrates, eases and softens to unblock naturally, so you have peace of mind from start to finish. love your laxative. miralax. i've heard it all.

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i don't care about race. i just -- i believe in the love, and i see trump's love. >> don't worry about him. let's just talk. look, it's a bernie perp. bernie, get your people in line, bernie. i think bernie is finished, but you never know. >> that's a clip from the upcoming episode from the circus, which will show on show time, 8:00 p.m. eastern time, inside the greatest political show on earth, done in conjunction with bloomberg politics. getting hot on the trail, as the clip shows. veteran republican pollster strategist, and all around big thinker, he had goaz. he is working with the anti-trump forces. ed, what is the state here as

the week closes of the efforts from donald trump being the nominee. >> i think you're going to see if you haven't heard already, would he went on the air today in arizona, and in utah. i think you're going to be seeing a lot more of that, and you know, the bottom line here is that trump would have to win 100% of the delegates to finish this by april 10th, with a third of those delegates being proportional. this thing is going to california. it's far from over. and i think you may very well see it go to the convention, a contested convention. i didn't think so early on, but increasingly, it is looking that way. >> i'm always in awe to be on the set with a big thinker. give me some big thoughts. first let me ask you, is the main argument you're making against trump a political argument? do you think he can't win? he is is not a republican, or basically a philosophical

argument? >> it's interesting. this is the first time in 40 years of doing this. i've worked on an operation if you will that is trying to work against someone as opposed to work for someone. >> right. >> i think what is missed in pr out there, we're looking to take votes away from trump. we're not. he has about a third of the electorate, republican that is voting for him, if you look at the popular vote, he has gotten on all the races so far, under 40%. so a lot of what we're doing is holding that ceiling down. but we can only act as a wedge. the campaigns then have to act as a magnet for those 60% that are left over to pull them to them. and there is some that have done it well. john kasich did it well in ohio. cruz has done it well in a variety of areas. florida didn't work out quite that way. >> and what do you say to those who say yeah, he is getting 35, 40% in the primaries, but he can enlarge en, he can bring out

people that didn't before. >> first of all, we have a done a a lot of analysis, and up until florida, he had lost two of the closed primaries, with just republicans, and had barely won in louisiana, much to the surprise, showing him 20 points ahead. i think that what is not talked about or what we have seen in terms of the numbers is that the people that are coming out to these primaries, the increased primaries, no one, being driven by the high competition all the races, not just race. second of all, where we've been able to track these down, general election voters that tend not to participate in primaries who are now coming out in the primaries. it's not like he is bringing huge numbers of people to register to vote for the or participate. they may be participated in primaries, but not the general election. that's one of the things that we really look at is that when you look at the total electorate, he started off with a very high

favorable rating and it has gotten worst. so, you know, it's good for the spin to say he is doing that. but in fact, his numbers have gotten worst with the general election. >> let me ask you this. he has had a lot of negative stuff tossed at him. none of it seems to work. what works, if anything? >> again, you have to take a look at it, you know. the numbers that i look at, you have almost as many republicans who say that they will not vote for donald trump, and we see this in all the exit polls, and saying they will vote for him. it's one of the concerns we have about the fall election. the interesting thing about those voters as much as he talks about now wanting to unify and getting the national leaders and the quote-unquote establishment voting for him, is the voters that are negative towards him are not establishment voters. they're everyday voters across the country. we're seeing him take a nose dive with republican women, particularly married, republican women. what a lot of these voters are doing is not turning against him

because of his politics, although that may be questionable. they're turning against him because of his character and style. they're basically taking a measure of the man, and come to the conclusion they don't like him. that is a whole different kettle of fish that he has to fry. as opposed to the party behind him. it's a deep problem for him. >> mark. >> you're from oklahoma, so you don't quit, but as you know full well, a lot of the donors, a lot of the fellow consultants and elected republicans have quit trying to stop donald trump, even though think they he would be a disaster. what do you say to those people currently on the let's stop attacking our eventual nominee? >> well, again, it's not about the national attacking the eventual nominee. he is doing the damage to himself. i think one of the things that he doesn't understand is that as a businessman, if you get 10% of

the market share, you're doing fine, you can talk about what a great company you have. in politics if you don't get a 50% of the market share, which he has never had, you lose. and right now, he is on a path to lose that in the general election. so i think, you know, there are some in the cruz camp that think he can still win the nomination. there are certainly people in the kasich camp that thinks that it can go to the convention. at this point i think there is a strategy that if this goes to the convention, he doesn't have enough votes. i think you're looking at a whole different ball game. as you know, mark, the people that go to the conventions are not foot soldiers for the individual candidates. they're committed to vote for him on the first ballot, but if they go to a second ballot, if he does not win it before the convention, the thing they'll think about is who can best win in november. that's when you look at the numbers, the memo that you and i have talked about him not being electable in the fall, that's

going to become more important to these delegates if it's a contested convention, and what is put on their shoulders is who can best win in november versus hillary clinton. >> all right, ed, thank you. i like both fish fries and ball games. thanks so much. up next, the supreme court scuffle continues. president obama goes on the offensive, after this. this is the pursuit of perfection. twell what if i told you that peanuts can work for you? that's right. i'm talking full time delivery of 7 grams of protein and 6 essential nutrients. ever see a peanut take a day off? i don't think so. harness the hardworking power of the peanut. feel like this. look like this. feel like this. with dreamwalk insoles, turn shoes that can be a pain

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officially commenced his aggressive public campaign to pressure senate republicans into holding a confirmation vote for supreme court nominee, merrick garland. today, in an interview with npr, he said the gop shouldn't block his pick, because it would set a dangerous precedent. >> at that point, the judiciary becomes a pure extension of politics, and that damages people's faith in the judiciary, because everybody understands that there is some politics involved in appointing judges, but we also expect the judicial system can rise above the political process. >> joining me now to talk about this battle are two of -- no, they're the best any where. white house correspondent, margaret and supreme court reporter, greg. let me start with you. does the white house think they have the upper hand in the fight with senate republicans whether to even hold a hearing on judge

garland? >> well, they do, because even if they don't get him confirmed between now and the election, they feel it will energize, turn out, get replaced by a democratic. and hey, perhaps even a bank shot in the lame duck session. >> what is their sense of how the nomination has been depicted so far? >> well, their sense about how the nomination has been depicted by republicans is nobody is taking issue with merrick garland. they're taking issue whether they should play ball with the president in his last year in office, and he -- >> he has gotten ravery r revie from the press and elsewhere. >> the senate tors are saying it's not personal, it's the timing or what have you. president obama feels good about his pick in that sense. >> greg, i'm struck in the last couple of the days in the number of prominent conservatives, genuine conservatives who have

said that garland ought to be confirmed. ken star, alberto gonzalez, bush's attorney general, astrada, a man who was rejected himself by the senate. is this going to continue? are most conservatives of this view? >> i wouldn't -- >> judicial conservatives. >> the supreme court advocates, the world here in washington, yes, he has an awful lot of support and is very well regarded. when you go farther out where people know him less, programs there will be less support. >> and what is the -- if i am a real staunch conservative, i want to make this substantive, not the political case against merrick garland, what would it be? >> well, one thing they've talked about is guns, and there are a couple of things he did on the appeals court, only one of them had to do with the second amendment, but he is being

portrayed as antigun. probably the more significant thing is if you remember how the big ruling from the supreme court, where they said the constitution protects an individual right to bear arms, the court that handled that case was garland's court, the d.c. circuit. that court agreed with the supreme court before they ruled, and garland said i want a bigger panel. >> so rather than a small panel, that was not a substantive position? >> he didn't say anything substantively, he said i want to reconsider that hearing. >> but you would agree that basically he'll be much closer to the liberal block than the conservative block in the court? >> in general, he will be. we haven't seen. >> if he is confirmed. >> he hasn't ruled, in a lot of the social issues. the d.c. circuit. the one area i would say is criminal law, generally a pro prosecutor reputation. >> that d.c. circuit has been a

spawning ground for supreme court, including the chief justice. >> it certainly has been. >> margaret, you mentioned lame duck. i think that's the most likely scenario, that if hillary clinton wins this election, and if she supports judge garland in november, that senate would do a lame duck. >> the chances are, after all, he was a bill clinton appointy to the court to begin with. for hillary clinton, this is a better deal than justice scalia, right, if she is trying to make the court go her way. >> more to the left. >> they would like to see an african-american or further to the left or both or all of the above. but when president obama went with merrick garland, everyone thought, poor guy, if he thought he had a chance of being confirmed, as it turns out, ironically, this may be exactly the person who gets confirmed, because the republicans are now betting that if they lose the presidential elect, he is the

most moderate they'll get. >> one of the thing that bothers some democrats is that he is old. not by my standards mind you, but he will be 64. >> right. he won't serve for three decades, he'll serve for two. younger people, of the other two finalists that obama considered, both in their late 40s. >> greg is 94 is the new 74, whatever. thank you both. this is a really interesting discuss discussion. when we come back, we talk to a man who has been mentioned as a possible hillary clinton running mate. u.s. labor secretary, tom perez will join us. when your symptoms start... doctors recommend taking ...non-drowsy claritin every day of your allergy season. claritin provides powerful, non-drowsy 24 hour relief... for fewer interruptions from the amazing things you do every day. live claritin clear. [engines revving] you can't have a hero, if you don't have a villain. the world needs villains

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with us now is someone who might be catching up on episodes of veep, labor secretary,

joining us now from new york. thank you, mr. secretary, for being with us. >> pleasure to be with you. >> and what do you make of all this perez for v.p. talk? have you been scouting massachusetts avenue for that home? >> i've been scouring the nation to help workers who need a job and businesses who want to grow their business, and that's why i'm here in new york today. talking about the minimum wage and talking about how we lift up and create shared prosperity in our economy. >> you showed your skills by ducking that question. let me ask you about minimum wages. bernie sanders says let's take it to $15 over the course of four years. could you do that? second, will it have any effect on wages, so stag nanlt for middle class workers. >> the president and i, and many others support a $12 minimum wage proposal introduced by senator patty murray and

congressman bobby scott, supported by elizabeth warren and many others. we also support efforts to go further in states. i was here today in new york talking about the need to establish a $15 minimum wage here in new york state. i was out in seattle last year when their $15 city minimum wage into effect. and so we're going to continue to support that federal floor, and then go in and hire elsewhere. the issue of wage stagnation is the big business of this recovery, and the issue of stubborn growth and wages that predates the great recession. for really the last 30 years, with the exception of the late '90s, productivity growth and wage growth became effectively decoupled. in other words, workers for the pie of prosperity, but didn't get to share the benefits. we have the wind at our back ot

one hand, because of six years of job growth, at the same time, we have to build shared prosperity for everyone. an economy for everyone. rising tide for everyone and not just the yachts. that's part of the unfinished business. that's why we're advocates, overtime, which could potentially help millions of people. that's why we invest in skills, one of the best ways to improve your lot is to improve your skills. >> mr. secretary, is there a state you would point to in terms of the issues you just mentioned? minimum wage, worker training, other issues related to income, education? is there a state you point to to say that state is doing it right? >> i think washington state is a good example is a state that really has done a lot of things right. and defies all of the calamity higher claims. washington state had the highest

minimum wage in the country for a long time. i think a couple of states may have passed it in the last year. but for 15, 20 years. highest minimum wage. no tipped wage. so you're a tipped worker, you get the same minimum wage. very good work force system. real investment in skills. you look at washington state, they have had above average, well above average economic growth. they've managed to build, i think, a state economy where you have lot of shared prosperity. do they have challenges, of course. every state does. but when i look at washington state and i hear the calamity say you can't raise the minimum wage, frankly, the evidence of washington belies that. >> mr. secretary, what do you think the proper role for a vice-president is in our government today? >> well, you look at what the advice -- vice president biden has done. i've had a front row seat, and

he is there for so many issues, whether it's domestic policy, foreign policy. he is such a font of wisdom and just really represents those middle class values that the president is all about. >> there is no doubt president obama has given him a big role. is your view that future presidents should give whoever their vice-president is that kind of big role on all issues? >> well, i think jimmy carter started that trend when he brought walter mondale with him. you've seen other presidents do that. my main observation has been with joe biden, and he has been a mentor of mine. a great friend. >> but mr. secretary, do you -- i know you say historically that's been the role since walter mondale, do you think that's the right way to function?

>> absolutely. >> mr. secretary, do you think you could pick someone for vice-president who has never run for political office? >> well, whoever is the nominee, that will be a judgment that they will have to make. >> but is there a sense that this is too important a job to turn over to someone who is never been involved in the electoral political system? >> well, again, you look at where things have been historically, and people who have been vice-presidents have tended to be, have had experience running either for the senate or governors, and for some of those have excelled as vice-president. some of those haven't. and so again, whoever is the nominee, they're going to have to make that judgment. it's really a very unique judgment for them. >> well, thank you very much for being with us, mr. secretary. we'll be right back with who won the week, after this. pet moments are beautiful, unless you have allergies. then your eyes may see it differently.

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al, it being friday, got to ask, who won the week? >> steph kerry. that's what i would like to say, mark. look, in a presidential friday, obviously trump and clinton. on obama v mcconnell on the supreme court court, i think it goes to the president. >> yeah, look, the president and his team made huge progress. closer to getting a hearing than they were when it started, but still a long way, and senator grassley and senator mcconnell still seem pretty dug in. >> i agree. look for it in the lame duck, mark. >> all right, check out bloomberg politics.com. and if you're watching us in washington, you can listen to us on the radio/radio, bloomberg,

99.1. our thanks for al hunt for sitting in, john helemann out on the road. thanks for watching. >> coming up, "hardball with chris matthews." dump trump hits bump. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. the dump trumpers are now out in force. unfortunately for them, they have no idea how to do it. mitt romney, who backed john kasich in ohio, now says he'll vote for cruz in utah. cruz says kasich has to quit, or the game is over. kasich says he won't take vp from trump, or hillary. then refused to say which he would like least. i just caught up with the ohio governor out in utah, where he is trying to win the