cocktail shaker. it's nice to meet you. thank you and please say hello to your princess. if you want to play just send us an e-mail at rachel at msnbc.com. we would love to send you our cast offstuff and occasionally delicious things. now because you have been good this week, you do not have to go to prison. instead you get to play hardb l hardball. >> dump truck hits trump. let's play hardball. the dump trump partisans are out in force. unfortunately for them they have no idea how to do it. mitt romney who backed john kasich this week now says he'll

vote for cruz in utah. cruz says kasich has to quit or the game's over. kasich says he won't take vp from trump or hillary and then refu refused to say which he'd likeliest. i just county up with him. thank you for joining us tonight governor kasich. >> thank you. >> there are now three candidates for the presidency in the republican party right now, donald trump, ted cruz and you. today mitt romney who kpand for you said he will vote for ted cruz in the utah caucus. he said i like governor john kasich. i would have voted for him in ohio, but i vote for john kasich makes it likely that trumpism would prevail. what's your reaction? >> i don't agree with that and i'm running for president

because i have first of all the best resume and record and secondly i'm the only one of the three that can win a general election and beat hillary clinton. so we put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. i campaigned with mitt and i like him. we just disagree. >> first of all, there was going to be a three-way debate this coming monday, a fox debate and then trump pulled out of it and you did. why didn't you stay in the debate. >> i think there's three of us and we ought to have all three in a debate and take the front-runner and move them out there i don't think makes any sense and i can be in a position much campaign which i'm very happy to do. >> you'd rather be out in utah than a debate studio. >> i think that this is -- if trump wants to debate, i'll be there. if he doesn't -- you have three people. it shouldn't be two of the

three. i'll spend this time doing a lot of things that i consider to be very productive. >> ted cruz is calling for you to drop out. he says you're hurting the chances to stop donald trump. i'm sure you're familiar with this, but let's listen. >> i congratulate john kasich on winning his home state, but it's mathematically impossible for john kasich to become the nominee. if you don't have a clear path, it doesn't make sense to stay in. i would note every day he stays in the race benefits donald trump. >> what about this stop donald trump thing. if you ever stop x movement bet on x. i don't know what a stop movement looks like. what do you make of it to decide you're going to team up with ted cruz. that's going to marshal enough support to knock trump off his momentum. >> nobody is going to get to the convention in my judgment with

enough delegates. then we will pick the nominee through the process. just because you don't have somebody that has enough delegates doesn't mean you don't have the process. that's why you have the convention. so the convention will sit down and they'll decide who can win in the fall and who has the record and who could run the country. it was a big national story today saying we go to a convention and they're likely to turn to me because of the act to wand the ability to bring people together. i understand, but i don't think anybody's going to get there with enough delegates so we'll ultimately have somebody chosen for the delegates who will represent the republican party. everybody needs to calm down. >> you're talking about the republican party, maybe the democrat party of the 1940s or earlier, but nobody is used to the idea of the candidate with the most delegates not winning. the person coming in is expected to win. trump says there will be riots if he doesn't get the nomination

if he gets the most delegates. >> that's irresponsible. i was there in 1976 when ronald reagan challenged gerald ford. the convention camine together, reagan didn't win and ford did. it's a serious process. these delegates take it seriously. i know because i worked to get delegates to support ronald reagan and they take it very seriously. i think it will be a great experience and it will be good for our country. >> so you can imagine a situation -- you must because you're still in the race, you get to the convention and trump is a couple of votes shy, he doesn't get the give me. he doesn't have the ballots and you have a number of ballots at the end of those you win. that's your scenario? >> if he's close maybe he'll get

the delegates, but at the end of the day what's most important is i'm running for president because i have a record of success, a record of achievement, a record of creating an environment for job growth of pulling people together and the convention is another vehicle that a political party uses to decide who they want to have. i'm very comfortable with that. i don't think anybody's going to get there. by the way for these people to say i should drop out, they've been calling me to do that for weeks. if i dropped out trump would have the nomination because he would have won ohio. it's just talk. political talk. that's what makes it interesting. >> what about glenn beck, he's one of the people you're talking about that's chattering out there, he's accused of you putting the well-being of the country at risk by staying in the race. here is glenn beck. >> kasich, i mean excuse my

language, but you son of a bitch, the repubic is at stake. this is not like a normal race. the republic is at stake. >> glenn beck is not usually on my dance card so i'm not going to vouch for him, but all these people are talking like you're the trouble when you have the resume and the qualifications and somehow ted cruz have decided you're the problem, not donald trump. >> i'm not going to respond to that kind of personal attack directed at me. >> let's talk substance for a minute. they picked up one of the key players in the terrible november bombings in paris and i guess he was out in that area which has been a refuge for the terrorists. what does that tell us about the fight of international attacks

by isis. >> you know what it brings to mind is the fact that when the intelligence community works with the local law enforcement, we can have success which brings up the notion of really good intelligence, particularly human intelligence and everybody working together. that's why we have to work together so carefully in terms of those people who may be migrating from places who joined isis or who went to countries that are really problem areas, we need to know who they are, what they're doing, but it shows that when law enforcement and intelligence community can work together effectively, we can have good results. >> how about the relationships among countries? we had a terrible period during and after the iraq war where we were told to eat freedom fries. how do you bring the countries together. what brings us together that didn't bring us together in the last big war.

>> self interests. i think now clearly people understand that radical islam is a problem. so i think there is self interests. all the kroebcountries in the m east, they know that these people want to destroy them. when we look at france or great britain or germany or the crisis that we see with my grants or what we see happening in belgian, we now begin to see there's an opportunity to bring people together and this idea of calling names doesn't make sense when it relates to international affairs and if you have a problem with the country, most of the time, nearly all the time you express those concerns privately, not in front of a television camera. >> let's talk about cuba. this week the president is making history going to havana. would you have gone there? >> no, i wouldn't. it's too much we give and they

take. i would like to see them give, release these political prisons. they released some of them when the pope came and then they put them back in jail. they have to make some steps forward as far as i'm concerned as to how we treat cuba. >> last question. this may hit you as a novelty because you've been under pressure, but should the situation develop differently and hillary clinton gets the democrat nomination which looks likely right now and your party has trump and hillary comes to you and says i would like to form a unity ticket, that would be, i guess that's your answer. okay. >> yeah, that's my answer. that's not going to happen. trump is not going to be the nominee. >> i have to push you as you laugh. if trump's the nominee would you accept a part on the ticket? would you go on the ticket with him. >> under no circumstances. zero. no chance. >> what would be worse, hillary or trump? what would you likelies less.

>> i would have to reflect on that. >> governor john kasich out in utah. thank you. >> thank you. coming up, inside the republican effort to stop trump at the convention in cleveland. we have new information tonight about what the party types are thinking of doing if donald trump doesn't have the delegates you needs to win the nomination outright. bernie sanders says he's not going anywhere. he's vowing to fight all the way to philadelphia, but with hillary clinton tightening her grip on the nomination what does he get staying in the race. and a big victory on the war on isis, belgium police captured the top fugitive. conservatives want a unity ticket to stop trump, but what if hillary clinton named a republican to unify the country. could it be the ticket that keeps trump out of the white

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let's look at the hardball scoreboard. on the republican side donald trump leads ted cruz by 52 points. john kasich is one. on the democratic side hillary clinton also holds an enormous lead. she's up with 71% of the vote to 23% for bernie sanders. is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours.

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welcome back. the big news today is mitt romney's announcement that he will vote for ted cruz in utah. donald trump has responded, failed presidential candidate mitt romney, the man who choked and let us all down is now

endorsing lying ted cruz. this is good for me. mitt romney is a mixed up man who doesn't have a clue. no wonder he lost. romney made clear his number one goal was to stop donald trump even if that means fighting it out at the convention. today one conservative leader warned if the party tries to grab the nomination from trump at the convention, there could be open warfare. you're going to push the button and blow up the party. at least in the short time. i'm joined now. you're out there reporting. what is there a cohesive group of people who actually have a conceivable plan to deny trump if he's short by 100 or 200 delegates. >> there is a group that is trying to organize opposition to donald trump. they're not very unified and this is has been the problem

that if they were unfied they wouldn't be in that position to begin with and they're having this problem now where you have kasich and cruz. you have people who say it should be another candidate all together. so until they actually get on the same page, they're never going to be able to stop donald trump which is why they're not effective. >> this is one of the years they're not giving out the peace prize. it's like they'd rather have no nominee because they're so negative on trump they have no counter balancing hope. >> i wrote a story today about some of the things that donald trump has said over the past decade or so that are not republican positions. we was pro-gay marriage. they don't trust and they don't believe he's a republican. the problem is people are voting for him and if they do pull one of these strategies in the convention they're going to have to turn around to the supporters

and say you guys got it wrong. let us pick the nominee. >> one of the organizers of the anti-trump group that manage et in washington yesterday, he said if he had to he would support a third-party candidate against trump. here he is. >> there's a strong coalition of going to the existing candidates, kasich, cruz, saying you need to cut a deal, find a unity ticket within the republican party. the fall back option is a third candidate. >> mike huckabee who dropped out just last month said that would hand the election to hillary clinton and destroy the republican party. >> i thought we had voters. i thought that's what we do. i wanted to be the nominee, that's why i ran, but i'm not. so i'm not going to start a third-party because i didn't get my way. i accept that in an election voters get to make this

decision. >> this is so crazy because back in that first debate they asked will you all support the nominee of the party and the only one that wouldn't was donald trump. now everybody but trump is talking about dumping the nominee. >> really the idea if you could bring someone in at the 11th hour, i spoke to lindsey graham this week and he said he would leave the party. you would spend the next month trying to unite the party and trying to stop donald trump from leaving the party and that's the month that you run against hillary clinton. they would spend the entire general election trying to get their base back. >> our colleague interviewed 19 of the 56 members of the rules party. most members said they would oppose any rule change that would allow a new member. they said change the rules and you will have a problem. you want to have a world war and

destroy the party. i think i like kasich, but when they start talking about bringing somebody, they talk about this third or fourth ballot, most recently because ever since '52 the person coming in won and they won on the first ballot. even the jerry ford thing, now we're talking about you don't get et majority of the first ballot so we go into the 1924 windy city or something like that. >> are you going to pick somebody who has gotten no votes from the republican voters. >> didn't even contest it. didn't try to get any votes. >> let's talk about it from the democratic point of view. what do you want to happen? >> that is like a win/win scenario. if donald trump is the nominee then he drives out democrats. he drives out the democratic base, but he also reimagines the map, like the entire electoral

map is redrawn and you don't know whether pennsylvania is in play or other place, but if cruz is the nominee that's better for you because he's only going to be in play in the same republican states that were play before and he's bound not to do as well as mitt romney. >> we know what will happen. if donald trump is the nominee there will be people sitting on their hands on the at convention like this. and then all the women will -- women who read the newspaper, they're going to say that's the enemy of everything i stand for. i don't care how my husband votes, i'm voting against this guy. the angry white guy, working class guy who has been waiting for this chance to smack the system, how does that balance out? >> imagine there is a challenge to donald trump and then you have the trump voters in the streets around the convention kicking up dust and then you

have the black lives matters protesters who you know are going to be in cleveland kicking up dust. >> they're not going to defend trump. >> you have this clash in the streets. you have arguments going on. >> you are amazing. >> the black lives matter people who have been waiting to protest trump -- >> they're protesting the republicans. the democrats will watch this thing and say cleveland is the chaos the republicans are offering. >> you are an imaginative guy. we have three armys fighting and changing sides. >> it's going to be like the seattle trade protest all over again. it will be insane. >> paul singer, thank you. thank you both for joining us. captured four months later a key suspect is caught in belgium today. we'll get the latest details, what it means for the case and the fight against trer. relieve both itchy, watery eyes

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welcome back. after an international manhunt that lasted four months, belgian authorities have arrested abdeslam. he was apprehended along with other terror suspects in a place raid. as the prosecutor told the associated press he could have been staying there for weeks or months. abdeslam is a french national and is a gunman that carried out the terrorist attacks last november. he returned to brussels in the immediate aftermath of that attack. the raid today came after they found his fingerprints on tuesday. two additional suspects remain at large. i'm joined by the chief correspondent. let me start with you richard. give me a sense of how this guy got away from paris, he was

supposed to commit suicide and all that and why so long to catch the guy. >> how he got away is he didn't go tlo you with his attack. he was never supposed to have survived the paris attacks. the other attackers died while fighting against countrier are terrorism place or while they were killing innocent people or detonating suicide vests. he had a suicide vest. he chose to dump it and was seen driving across the boarder entering france and leaving belgium. so he got away when there was an opportunity for him to get away. why it took four months critics will say it shouldn't have taken four months because in the end he went right back to where it all began he went back to the neighborhood where he grew up. it is the neighborhood where he met the master mind of the

attack. and he went back to the place where he had contacts and friends. i think it also shows how is lated he had become. isis wasn't talking about him any more. if you are an isis commando, you are not supposed to survive. he couldn't go to syria or iraq and join the community of isis fighters again. he had to go back to the place that he knew and perhaps it shouldn't have taken four months, but it did and finding individuals is actually hard even if you think you know where to look. >> what does this tell us about this man without a country and what does it do to break -- does it hurt isis to have this whole sbrarsment. >> eight attackers carried out

their plan and carried over 130 people. if isis directed this attack, it was a major success in the heart of france in a major western country that is part of the kol lish to combat iraq and syria. i think isis will be pretty silent and they will not mention him unless some isis supporters talked about him in the sense of he was captured and now he has to suffer jail after helping his brothers or come rads in actuarialer. >> let's talk about intelligence gathering. what you be squeeze out of a guy who has nowhere to go? does that allow the authorities to get information out of him about the net working of this terror group. >> it probably does. i think he of all of the isis types is probably one who is more likely to cooperate. he doesn't have a whole lot to

lose. even his own family was divided about the issue of isis. there was one brother, one of his brothers who carried out a suicide attack. he was supposed to be part of the attacks and allegedly drove some of the suicide attackers. but then he chose not to do it. one of his other brother szs went on television calling on him to turn himself in. now that he's been captured and he probably hasn't been going outside for the last several months or staying just in the confines of a couple of neighborhoods, we'll find out more as he does talk where he has been. one would expect that he doesn't have much to lose. most people once they're arrested do talk. >> here is the tough question. this may sound uncivil, but if you have a population living within the boarders of belgium

that are so loyal to protecting a guy like this, don't you have a problem of governess. is it still a country if it can't prevent a neighborhood for having so many terrorists living there. it seems to me there's something that's become uncontrollable now about the terrorist threat if you allow a whole neighbor to be a terrorist strong hold and don't do anything about it to where the guy can live there safely for four months. >> this is i think somewhat of a problem not only in belgium, but across a number of european countries including france and germany and other countries where some part of the population is left marginized from the rest of the kmuntd maybe some of the services that are provided to the rest of society are not being provided there in a much more adequate level. but i think in the grand scheme of things i wouldn't blame the authorities for the infestation

of radical elements in that neighborhood. the matter of the fact that the authorities have had their eyes on that neighborhood for a long time well before the paris attacks, it's very difficult to be able to sift through the intelligence and zoom in on certain areas instead of taking a whole neighborhood down. >> we'll see. i think that's the kind of question europe is going to be asking themselves. thank you. up next, democratic show down. hillary clinton's marching toward the nomination, but bernie sanders is not giving up without a fight. does sanders have a path to victory still. and an early morning mode. and a partly sunny mode. and an outside... to clear inside mode. transitions signature adaptive lenses now have chromea7 technology... making them more responsive than ever to changing light. so life can look more vivid & vibrant. why settle for a lens with just one mode? experience life well lit®.

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in salt lake city. he began by taking aim at ted cruz calling him a liar and questioning his citizenship. he krcriticized mitt romney who said he's voting fo are cruz. we should mention there are hundreds of protesters outside the venue. they remain at the rally location. back to hardball. we're moving west where we think the terrain favors us. west coast is probably most progressive region of the united states of america. perhaps winning california, washington, oregon, many of the smaller states and we think if we come into the convention in july in philadelphia having won a whole lot of delegates, having a lot of momentum behind us and

most importantly perhaps being the candidate who is most likely to defeat donald trump we think that some of these super delegates who have now supported hillary clinton can come over to us. >> welcome back. that was bernie sanders last night telling rachel mad owe he could take the fight for the democratic nomination to philadelphia where he would hope that democratic super delegates would have been for him. but the leader of the democratic party facing time for the democrats to rally behind hillary clinton. the new york times reported that obama told a group of donors that senator bernie sanders was nearing the point at which his campaigning against hillary clinton would end and that the party must soon come together to back her. white house press secretary josh earnest had this to say at his briefing yesterday. >> president obama made a case

that would be familiar to all of you, which is that as democrats move through this competitive primary process, we need to be mindful of the fact that our success in november in electing a democratic president will depend on the commitment and ability of the democratic party to come together behind our nominee. the president did not indica indicate or specify a preference in the race. >> he also reacted. here he is. >> i don't want to speculate on what he said or what he didn't say. i've heard there's been some push back from the white house kind of indicating that he didn't say that, but the bottom

line is that when only half of the american people have participated in the political process when some of the largest states in this country, people in those states have not yet been able to voice their opinion on who should be the democratic nominee, i think it's absurd for anybody to suggest that those people not have a right to cast a vote. >> he makes a good argument. krisin covers the campaign and the senior editor. beth, you first. what is bernie, this is his last chance to be the president of the united states, i can't thinken of a good reason he should quit. what's he get by quitting? he's not going to be embassador to britain. he has a better job now in the senate. >> i covered the hillary clinton campaign in 2008 and this is similar what we heard back then is hillary clinton winning

contests and saying why should i quit and party elders saying you need to drop out and everybody needs to get behind barack obama. so now bernie is making the same case. he should stay in and he's winning contests and more than half the states haven't voted yet. >> what about his geographic argument. california is very pro-choice. republicans can't win on that issue out there. washington state and oregon are guaranteed on the democratic side. it's that part in the northeast is democratic, but i'm not sure it's still the case. i'm not sure there is this california chance for him. >> some states have behaved in untraditional ways. >> he didn't win illinois or ohio or missouri. >> he mentioned new york state where hillary clinton was

senator, so -- you have to remember that every state in the democratic contest is proportional. even if you win some of those states, depending how he wins, he may only pick up a few more delegates. he's going to have to win with a big lead. >> what way to end this campaign would make him a shining star come philadelphia. i would argue he must be thinking he wins california, he wins a gold prize out there and then he goes to philadelphia having won california or something like that. >> and some of these caucus states coming up. i think his campaign think he's going to win and pick up some momentum and that's why the clinton campaign is focus in had on arizona. >> can he win arizona? >> it looks like he has a shot in arizona, but he's making a strong push in arizona. >> who are the democrats in arizona. >> latinos.

>> colleges. >> i think he has a shot in arizona, but i think your question about what makes him a prince at the convention, i think he wants to fight this thing to the death. he has said this is a revolution so you fight until you can't fight anymore and that's critical because if he gets to the convention he can say now it's time. >> you're hillary clinton and you say to yourself -- can he ran a campaign that doesn't get negative against her, doesn't give the republicans a knife to use against her. >> he's been pretty negative. he's a smart man. he does not help him to go negative and it hurts her. there's really no purpose. i would argue he's already a prince at the convention. he has pushed her so far to the left that she is a different candidate had he not run. >> she said in the interview i had with her this week there's a difference between her and him.

i'm not a socialist. >> they have to fight over single payor. there are some real differences. on wall street and immigration she's much more atuned with the democratic primary electorate because of bernie. he claim -- what does he care about? he doesn't want planes to travel in. he actually wants to effect the debate. >> that's her big challenge at this point is not going too far to left. >> i didn't hear any -- >> i don't think she's shifting on foreign policy at all. >> is that the deal, he's going to leave the party with that he will move her to the left but he'll leave her on the center right with foreign policy. >> he's made his mark there. she's shifted on some of these things. >> he can run his revolution and call for the changes he wants without attacking her. he may still do that. this is his decision to make. he can take it all the way up to

california and run a candidacy out on the west coast. but it depends whether he -- >> he can also effect the choice of a running mate and it could be him or it could be elizabeth warren. >> i refuse to votes do you think it's plausible that hillary clinton may be the first woman president would have a woman running mate. >> i think it would be difficult for her to choose someone who is has progressive as senator sanders. i think she's going to go the castro route. >> i think it's hard to get elizabeth warren in. >> we've been talking about the

by partisan unity ticket. she could run with a republican who has groundly been against donald trump.

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can get toujeo® at the lowest branded copay. ask your doctor about the proven full 24-hour blood sugar control of toujeo®. we're back. there's increasing worry inside the republican party. the traditional republican

voters might defect in november if donald trump is the nominee. the latest poll finding in a hypothetical matchup 12% say they would vote for hillary clinton over trump. on the flip side only 5% of democrats say they would vote for trump over clinton. conservative leaders held a meeting yesterday to strategyize a way to stop trump. there was a columnist who was quote the consensus was we need a unity ticket of some sort and we'll let the candidates work out who the unity ticket is. i mean, it's absurd that any candidate -- let's talk about this problem. if you're going to have -- we all sort of know who the republican people would be who would flip over to hillary clinton. i would say women, educated, the white working class. so here is sort of an idea i wanted to focus on now.

is there any chance that hillary clinton would pick a republican? >> i'm all about whitman. i think there's a unity ticket and somebody who has walked away from donald trump very publicly. >> i think the reality is she likely won't, but if we're going to entertain a scenario, i think rubio could be an interesting pick for her and kasich. >> there is a history. >> roos velt was going tore his fourth term and was talking about it was a very good campaign and he ended up being his diplomat. hump re was talking about it. john kerry was talking about john mccain joining him and mccain talked about lieberman. >> that was a big deal. >> what stopped him? >> they wanted a hard core

republican. >> so they picked sarah palin. >> republicans thought that mccain was barely a republican so he couldn't do that. i think the odds of hillary picking a republican are about 3% or less, but if she were maybe collin powell except he was wrong on the war too. maybe he can get around that, but it's hard. the parties are so at odds on some key issues. how can you pick marco rubio who has said that you should go to jail for ben gghazi. >> i'm afraid what will hatch. we have a presidential election. it could be crazy if it's trump verse hillary. i think the vote will be hardened by late jeweluly. the senate will come in

republican -- maybe not. it will be so close nobody's going to get 60 votes. no party will have a man date and the house probably still republican but it's not any good for a democratic president. so hillary clinton walks in and a divided senate and nothing is done and we're back to this anger, this confusion and anger. what good is all this attack and excitement and dirty naming? we end back up in the same slaughterhouse that we started with. >> i think one of the things that secretary clinton should consider is potentially someone who reaches out to that outsider anti-establishment surge that we're seeing right now in the country because that's what missing. >> i think she should consider it. that's something that's missing. >> the bernie people will hate

that. that's really -- >> she can't go back to being that conservative with her running mate. no way. >> i don't think a pick of a vice president is going to solve the issue that you rightfully just pointed out. i think the country is going to have to make a decision over the next years about which side it wants to give a chance to. >> we need a government. we don't have a government if we go in with hillary with a republican house and split senate. we don't have a government. we have a war that goes on. we need a mandate. i'd like to see any new president come in with six months. >> you don't buy the notion that it would be a wipe out if hillary clinton was elected offer have over trump. >> if she brings it with 55 then she's in business. >> a lot more house members? >> you're an optimistic person. >> i wish the american people would make up their mind.

at least every four years change their mind. the roundtable is staying with us and up next. this is hardball, the place for

politics. we're back with the roundtable. tell me something i don't know. >> hearing that the republican convention is having trouble raising money.

corporations ufncomfortable getting behind trump. >> trump has been saying that if he's the nominee, he can put states into play that aren't otherwise in play for republicans in the general election and he points to new york state. now hillary clinton, it's also her home state in a way and the latest poll has her beating trump in new york 55% to 36%. so not even close at this moment. >> a big battle in new york. clinton campaign getting closer to having a strategy to take on donald trump. i'm told they're considering three things, ignoring him, meeting him on his level, i am told she's going to go after him on policy issues. she's going to try to draw sharp distinctions with him. >> take him seriously. >> exactly because they say that the republicans haven't been able to do that because it would

alienate the republican base, but she can do that. >> that's reporting. >> thank you. thanks to the roundtable. that's hardball for now. thanks for beating with us. all in