alienate the republican base, but she can do that. >> that's reporting. >> thank you. thanks to the roundtable. that's hardball for now. thanks for beating with us. all in

a man that possibly hates more than any other. certainly more than any member of the party. 2012 gop presidential candidate mitt romney who is campaigning in ohio with john kasich just four days ago announcing this afternoon that in the utah nominating caucuses on tuesday he will vote for cruz. the only path that remains to nominate a republican rather than mr. trump is to have an open convention. at this stage the only way we can reach an open convention is for senator cruz to be successful as possible. romney added that a vote makes it extremely likely that trumpism would prevail. campaigning in utah this

afternoon kasich played down romney's announcement. >> look, it's fine. this is his view and he's entitled to it and frankly i don't think anybody's going to have enough delegates to get the to convention. i'm the only one who can beat hillary clinton. that's what the polls show so maybe they ought to knock it off and get behind me. this is -- it's okay. it's fine. we'll just move beyond it and we're going to keep doing our thing. >> trump took to twitter to respond to the division. he professed failed presidential candidate, the man who choked, is now endorsing lying ted cruz. this is good for me. as for cruz he trumped romney's move during a visit to the boarder. >> if you want to beat donald trump cruz is the only campaign he can do it. governor romney observed that a vote for john kasich only helps

donald trump. >> despite the fact that as these headlines make clear most everyone in washington can't stand ted cruz. yesterday lindsey graham vowed to help any way i can despite having joked that if you kill ted cruz on the senate floor no one would convict you. marco rubio who referred to cruz as a liar is now close to endorsing his former rival. there's time to still prevent a trump nomination which i think would fracture the party and be damaging to the conservative movement. >> trump is short of delegates. republicans have reason to believe they can keep him below the number of 1237 if they can unify behind a trump

alternative. this chart shows the share of the gop primary vote in 2012 and you see it's trump in this cycle. you see the romney line tilts up. he gains steam. the trump line is flat. as trump keeps winning his percentage is around 35%. even in the states that voted on tuesday huge numbers of republicans say if trump and hillary clinton are the nominees they'll consider a third-party candidate. you don't just see this in the numbers. it's right there in the turning you see when republicans are asked if they'll vote for trump. >> you're a republican? >> that's right. >> if donald trump is the republican nominee are you going to vote for him. >> i'm not going to answer. >> could you support him? >> i've never voted for a democrat for president. i don't intend to start now. like a lot of people i'm

watching to see what's going to happen by the time we get to that convention. >> i'm not saying i would vote for hillary clinton by any chance. i'm saying i don't know what i would do if trump became the nominee. >> joining me american enter prize institute co author of it's worse than it was about extremism in the republican party. this is something that you've been shouting about the fact that the republican party is veerg in directional that's anonlus and unstasable. your reaction to watching today the party attempting to get behind ted cruz to stave off donald trump. >> you have to look with bafflement and wonderment at a party that is car reasoning completely off the tracks with a self inflected wound. you're right about ted cruz. in more than 45 years of watching the senate, i've seen a lot of senators who drive their

colleagues to distraction. the idea that cruz would end up as the establishment shows how much they're floundering because they've created a situation and they can't get out of it. >> there is an argument being proposed by many conservatives that this phenomenon is essenti essentially xeogenuos. it's media coverage plus celebrity and donald trump of the brokenness of the way we follow politics. do you think that's true? >> you've forgotten it's the fault of barack obama. none of it is true. there are a lo tt of things tha have brought -- trashing

government itself not just the president but the entire process leads to the two candidates that we have that are the dominate ones now. people who have stepped away from politics as we have known it with the republican party within the republican party and as taechd approached the democrats over the last number of years. as we wrote in the first edition of the book and the no one coming out as well, a party that is comp terpus of science and facts that relies on these outside triebl media that promote a vision with all the adds for gold is getting in some ways what it deserves. >> finally you've watched this party operate. can they pull it off? can they unite?

>> i don't see how they can make that happen. i don't see any way that donald trump ends up with fewer than 1,000 to 1100 delegates and probably more than that to take the nomination away from somebody in that circumstance never happened before is going do lead to i think as trump said riots, but also a division in the party that is going to take a long time to heal. i have to say we're all going to surface a consequence. >> all right. thanks for your time tonight. >> i think the fall out around cruz is a stage in this grief process of the republican party that not only runnio is gone but rubioism is dead. >> absolutely.

i think that a lot of the party was waiting to see what would happen in florida. it was marco rubio's last stand and as you mentioned in your opening there you look at lindsey graham of all people who has now come around in support of ted cruz. he had said that choosing between donald trump and ted cruz is the difference of being shot and poisoned. so you know what the contempt is toward ted cruz by his colleagues in the senate. he called mitch mcconnell a liar so he has no real friends there other than mike lee of utah, but they do believe he is the only way they could stop donald trump from securing the number of delegates and i think more importantly what they see in ted cruz is less damage being done to the party's brand both in november and in the long term because donald trump of course at this point offended every possible minority, women, muslims and i think they're looking at how can they salvage the image of the republican party. >> we had a discussion in 2013

in the fight over the comprehension reform bill and rubio was one of the chief architects of and it was notable that he had joined with democrats. we talked about the coincidenns of this might be trying to get missing white voters back in the party and that this trajectory of rubio and rubbiioism that's w dead is not going to go inner. look at this clip. >> working class voteders have a home in the democrat party just because naturally that's the way the party lines up. working class voters don't have a home in the democratic party if they're not liberals and they look at romney and they didn't have a vote there. so the way to go after the working class voters is a free market. it's saying obama was enriching the well connected. this is interesting because this

is the third path out of this wilderness. and the thing i think we agree on is breaking free of the kind of donor class of the gop to get there is going to be very difficult. there's a lot there that i think is quite on the money. what stage are we at now in this -- how does that compare to your analysis back then. >> i think what happened is i saw that pop lichl had the energy in the republican party. we saw that as early as the tea party where it was largely a pop lus phenomenon of coming into the republican party and i thought maybe that poppism could be chand into conservatism. donald trump has shown that the way to harnas it is through immigration, the racism. i think i was right that it was going to be the next wave of the republican party and maybe it

was wishful thinking that i thought it could be haranned. i do think it was possible and now maybe that ship has sald. >> that's the question for you is what do you make of this last stand. do you prove of this stand. do you think this is going to work. >> nothing is going to work for the republican party. this is going poisoned. do you want something that's going to look like a coupe by keeping trump off the bal yot. neither of those are good and the fact is a lot of the working class voters who trump has brought in will not stick around the republican party for a ted cruz or for anybody else. so that's part of the problem and then on the other hand a lot of conservatives are not going to stick around for a trump.

so i think it's trying to beat trump is worthy. i'm not engaged in the balancing act between is it worse to have trump. >> there's a lot of rubio talked to donors in minnesota offering his support to cruz. do you anticipate he will also come out and be the next shoe to drop in this unified front. >> yesterday when he spoke to reporters on capitol hill he was reluctant to offer an endorsement. he said he was offering his opinion that ted cruz is the only conservative left in the race, but certainly he is signaling what he believes about the remainor of the field an i think there's pressure on him because there's pressure to get around an alternative to donald trump and i think that he might face some kritism if he were relungt yant to put his support behind ted cruz. it might come off as bitter, but they had a very nasty fight during the primary.

marco rubio called cruz a liar repeatedly. it goes back to that idea this is where we are now. they have no other choice. >> everyone has statements that they can't walk back. romney's statement on facebook today about donald trump are the kind of words that you can't pull back in. people have broken it and it's hard to put back together. >> thank you both. that was fun. coming up bernie sanders says arizona sheriff ambushed his wife and then we'll show you what happened the last time the republicans faced an open convention and later there are signs that either trump or cruz could be very bad news for republicans in congress. is that congressional majority threatened. clrnl clrn

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former texas senator phil gramm just joined the campaign, a man ted cruz once called his role model and famous for spearheading financial deregulation, for getting rid of the glass deglet and crucially for pushing through a provision that ensured virtually no regulation of the complex financial instruments known as derivatives including credit swaps why in 2008 "time" magazine blamed gramm. what could possibly go wrong? caring for someone with alzheimer's means i am a lot of things. i am her best friend. i am her ally. so i asked about adding once-daily namenda xr to her current treatment for moderate to severe alzheimer's. it works differently. when added to another alzheimer's treatment, it may improve overall function and cognition. and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. vo: namenda xr doesn't change how the disease progresses.

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and they all lost. i tried to get hillary down here but she's too smart. she won't come to the tents. i would even give her a free pair of pink underwear. >> joe arpaio, the notorious scandal plagued sheriff is known for many things the anti-immigrant is one donald trump most ardent supporters. he went after hillary clinton and arpaio, who faced legal sanctions for the justice department for discrimination crossed paths with jane sanders, wife of bernie sanders. she went to visit marco pa county so called tent city and outdoor detention center. >> jane, welcome to tent city. >> thank you. >> want to talk about politics and you say one thing before we go any further. >> okay. >> you have a right, i'm a big

trump guy. i endorsed him. >> that's fine. >> and i stick by him. >> uh-huh. >> and -- but this is america. we all have a right -- >> then i should tell you, i'm a big sanders supporter. i endorsed him and i'm sticking by him. so, we'll agree to disagree on that and maybe some other things. >> now, if you're looking for the best negative endorsement you could find in arizona days before the democratic primary, joe arpaio is about as good as it gets and bernie sanders didn't hold back, speaking earlier today about his wife's visit to the jail. >> while she was there to talk to some of the families who are impacted, she was met by the sheriff who kind of ambushed her. as i said, it is easy for bullies like sheriff arpaio to pick on people who have no power. if i'm elected president, the president of the united states

does have the power. watch out, joe. >> sanders has spend much of the week in the west campaigning in arizona, utah and idaho, all must-win states for him on tuesday if he has a chance of catching up to hillary clinton's sizable delegate lead. joining me now tad devine. tad, you guys made the argument that basically the race is at half-time. that the structure of the primary has been such that states that are more advantageous to hillary clinton have come first. how well do you have to do -- expect to do on tuesday? >> well, you know, we have to do very well not just on tuesday but for the rest of the process, chris. we have three important events on tuesday. bernie has been in all three straits, gone from the canadian to the mexican border today campaigning through the west. we'll try to win those states next tuesday. hillary has some advantages in arizona.

lot of early vote, lot of older votes, groups she's done well with. we're closing hard. one of the things we saw in all these states, and last tuesday like missouri and illinois, bernie closes strong. hillary's leads, i don't think they're safe right now. >> throughout this campaign, you focussed on pledged delegates, not superdelegate. there's two reasons, hillary clinton has hundreds more superdelegates that vowed to support her than you do, but more first principle democratic belief that the votes and the voters, the democrat party should subside as opposed to the party elders who represent the superdelegates. why this exchange between rachel maddow and bernie sanders was interesting. take a look. >> well, you know, i don't want to speculate about the future and i think there are other factors involved. i think it is probably the case that the candidate who has the most pledged delegates is going to be the candidate. but there are other factors. and the other factors will be the strength of each of us in taking on the republican

candidate. what i think is most important to all of the delegates, including the superdelegates, is that we have a candidate who will win and not allow donald trump to end up in the white house. >> now, that was -- the question there was should the person with most pledged delegates get the nomination. senator sanders refused to just say yes. i mean, that was surprising to me. >> well, chris, listen, i think -- i agree with everything bernie just said. listen, it's very important who wins the most votes who wins the most delegates. that's a big part of the process. we are going to work hard to win the most pledged delegates between now and the time that voting ends in mid june. but i think democratic party as a whole is going to take a hard look at both of our candidates when this process is over. i think they're going to say, who will be the strongest democrat to represent us in november. who can stop trump or even cruz. i think that will factor in. so we're trying to win the most delegate -- most pledged delegates.

i think we have a real shot to. clinton people say that's not reasonable or that we can't do it. we believe we can. we have to win a lot of states. we have to win a lot of delegates. if we do by the time we finish, we think we can be there. >> okay. on monday, aipac, the sort of self build pro-israel lobby is having their annual conference in washington, d.c. there are five candidates remaining in the race. four will be speaking. one that won't be is senator sanders. he released this statement today, i would very much have enjoyed speaking at the aipac conference. obviously issues impacting israel and the middle east are the utmost important to me. i'll be traveling through west and the campaign schedule prevents me from attending. there are people who will interpret any excuse of scheduling in a campaign to basically be b.s. why shouldn't they in this case? >> well, because, you know, listen when i said we have a lot of delegates to make up and we have to win states and delegates to do it, i meant it. a day to fly back to the east coast, a day to fly back to west

coast, we would miss a day or two and a half of campaigning. we have big events not just next tuesday in the three states that are up. washington state, that's a very important contest for us. bernie will go and travel there. there's an event in wyoming after wisconsin. >> let me stop you there. i want to press you. there's two camps of people. there are camps of people who aligned with the politics of aipac, particularly on israel. extremely supportive of the israeli government and claims and handling of the occupying territories. there are others who are critical of that, each of whom are interpreting this as essentially a rebuke of aipac's politics. are you telling them not to interpret it that way? >> yes, i am. if aipac wants to hold this meeting in salt lake city, i promise we'll show up for it. it's a logistical issue. bernie will send his remarks. no, this isn't a signal of anything that we're very serious

about winning states next week and the weeks thereafter to try to win the nomination. >> tad devine, great things. appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> the day before the states vote,ly get a chance to talk with the candidate himself. bernie sanders will join me on the eve of his next big election challenge right here 8:00 p.m. eastern on monday. you do not want to miss it. coming up, the 1976 republican convention hadn't been talked about much, this much, since 1976. why that is ahead. when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a.

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what appears to be the final key suspect in the paris terror attacks on november 13th has been captured alive and it's stunning to consider four months today ago we were in paris. i was in the st. denis neighborhood on the very day on the massive day when they were killed. one day later a massive man hunt was under way for 26-year-old salah abdelslam, who lives in the brussels suburb. man who authorities believed driven a car carries one team of assailants the night of the attacks and who had somehow managed to slip back across the border into belgium. one thought four months later a suspect as high profile of this would be nowhere near there. today in brussels they apprehended salah abdelslam, the tenth person suspected in the november 13th attacks and the only one still alive. he was shot in the leg during his encounter with police according to authorities and this video the suspect is being

dragged to a police vehicle. all told, three people arrested during today's raid. fourth person was killed. the other suspects presumed to have been aiding abdelslam in evading police. today's arrest were a product of a joint. it included dozens of raids and nearly weekly leads. lingering question, why did abdelslam go back to his home neighborhood? answer perhaps by the obvious, probably the only place he had a network of support.

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♪ over the past several presidential campaign cycles there's been a growing frustration from the press core about party conventions. they don't make any news. they're a four-day infomercial for the party. in recent history, the nominee has been decided long before the convention actually starts. so what we end up seeing is just stage craft and scripted

theatrics. well, this summer in cleveland we may get the news-making convention we've all been longing for. if no republican candidate gets the 1237 delegates needed for the nomination, we may see an all-out battle on the convention floor for the first time in decades. the last time like that was in 1976; neither president gerald ford or the incumbent president nor ronald reagan whose insurgent campaign had amore ma jurorty of delegates headed into the republican convention in kansas city. >> four days from now the republican delegates will gather in this hall, but as of today, none of the counts of delegates made by news organizations give president ford enough delegates for a first ballot victory. he is close in all the counts, ahead of reagan in all the counts but he hasn't yet locked it up with. >> days leading up to the vote, there was an all-out battle being waged for delegates. >> vermont, 18 for ford.

virginia 13 for ford. >> james baker, the president's delegate hunter said his new delegate total shows the president has five more votes than are needed for a first ballot nomination. >> west virginia 20 for ford. 8 for reagan. >> gerald ford had the power of the presidency bind him at this point. the help of james baker was able to entice uncommitted delegates. play for the more conservative wing of the party ronald reagan tried to get ford to say who he would name his running mate. an effort that failed. >> this is where reagan hoped to pick up strength, not lose it. the debate ran nearly two hours. >> there has been too much secrecy, why shouldn't the delegates of this convention or any convention know beforehand who the vice presidential

candidate will be before they decide on the top of the ticket. >> the arguments for this last minute amendment smack of desperation and certainly political opportunism. >> at the center of all this wheeling and dealing was the mississippi delegate which was pursued heavy by both candidates. >> the pressure to get the mississippi delegation to commit itself today upset the mississippi chairman clark reed who is a ford supporter but wanted to hold off a vote until tomorrow. >> why? what's the value of it? what kind of pressure is on you? >> just to try to -- >> at one point mississippi's delegates supporting reagan took over a cbs news trailer and were being observed by the teenage children of cbs news journalists. >> so for the last ten or 15 minutes they've been in there talking. now, we have a couple of operatives inside. phil moyer's son, they don't know that.

and roger mud's son. matthew mud, young moyer, what happened in there? >> they decided whether or not to break unit rules. >> what did they decide? >> they tried to take a vote of everyone that was in there and not everyone was in there. 22 or 23 -- >> there's 21 people in there and they said they couldn't vote unless they had the entire delegates. >> i'm training ryan and david for cleveland in the in the end the mississippi delegates went to ford and he became the party's nominee. >> west virginia -- >> 20 votes for gerald ford. >> that did it. gerald ford was over the top and he saw it all in his hotel suite with some of the people who worked with him since new hampshire. he said it had been a long, hard struggle. he took the trip he has long promised up committed trip he would make, over to ronald reagan's house.

this picture buzz important to the president. the president hopes it will convince reagan supporters to work for him. >> joining me now is presidential historian douglas brinkley. charlie pierce, righter at large for esquire magazine. welcome to both of you. doug, let me start with you. it's remarkable -- there's so many things happening here that echo today. one of them is essentially the establishment verse the nonestablishment forces. in this case, in the person of the sitting incumbent president of the united states fighting by his -- by every hook and crook to get nomination of his own party. >> absolutely. great footage, by the way. look, i later interviewed gerald ford about it in his home in rancho mirage, he was livid. this is decades later at ronald reagan because he was the sitting president and as you recall, ford would become best friends with jimmy carter who beat him. ford didn't mind losing to carter in the sense that democrats versus republican. but republican on republican, the fact that reagan sabotaged

him when he was the sitting president, he never forgave reagan. reagan later tried to patch up by bringing him an indian peace pipe and said giving you a peace pipe. let's not have bad animosity, but they never could heal that rip because ford felt bruised by what reagan did. >> charlie, there's a few lessons here for cleveland. and here is the most important -- the winner of the nomination is not necessarily the winner of the party's future, which i think is an important thing to remember as we watch this fight play out. the person who gets the nomination doesn't necessarily emerge the victor in terms of trajectory of the republican party because clearly the republican party was reagan's party after this. it wasn't ford's. >> yeah. coalition for lack of a better word that solidified and won the presidency for ronald reagan in 1980 you can see forming at this convention. jessie helm was a very powerful prominent broker at this convention.

the attack on ford was from the right on foreign policy, on detente, helsinki accords and from the fall of saigon happened technically on his watch and helm's got a lot of foreign -- really hard line foreign policy into the platform. it was the first republican platform that advocating a human life amendment, which showed the way that party was swinging on social issues and reagan's strength was all in the south and the west and that's where the republican party moved. >> there's also the degree to which there's -- clinton had this line about how democrats fall in love, republicans fall in line and there's this will rogers i believe to an organized party of the democrat, but actually those roles have flipped in the modern time. the democratic party is more orderly party than the republican party, but you see here -- if you go back to '64, this kind of sense of permanent revolution and insurgency is actually central to the image of modern conservatism. this isn't knew.

>> absolutely. the last president to actually win a broken convention, got the brokered convention and won was fdr in '32 he beat al smith out offering john nance garner the speaker of the house of texas, the vp thing. so garner thought -- did a devil's deal with fdr thinking we could go over al smith and they did and garner dutifully sat two terms with fdr and thought, well, then i'm set up for 1940 and fdr ran an unprecedented third term. democratic party discipline has been there since fdr. the republicans go willy nilly. the fact that the conservatism movement that only '72 with jimmy carter, '76 with carter, maybe a little bit with mcgovern in '72 while you had an insurgency. >> charlie, speaking of '64, nominated barely goldwater, that's also to me the best sort of historical marker for what we

might see in cleveland insofar as you have a takeover essentially the party by a certain wing of it and the other wing rejects it. here is nelson rockefeller on the floor in '64 basically ripping the face off the guy who is going to be the nominee. take a listen. >> there is no place in this republican party for those who would infiltrate its ranks, distort its aims and convert it into a cloak of apparent respectability for a dangerous extremism. >> you can hear him being booed and he doesn't name goldwater, everyone understood, charlie, what he was talking about. >> well, it was a wild convention. i have talked to people who -- i mean, if donald trump does, as he's flirted with his whole campaign, turns his crowd on the media, this is the precedent because i understand and certainly doug would know this better than i that david brinkley told his son not to

wear nbc credentials because the anti-press feeling in '64 was so wild and so genned up by the goldwater people. this is a more closely run precedent, i think, than even '76 is. >> also happened in '64 with cbs, barry goldwater flew to germany to say he had foreign policy chops and walter cronkite went on cbs and said he went to a place where the nazis used to go b. it's one of the few times cbs had to do a massive apology to goldwater in '64. that's how much the press was scared of barely goldwater, the liberal cbs, nbc and they're frightened about the idea of goldwater, hence that famous commercial of the lyndon johnson work with the mushroom cloud. >> the goldwater precedent is useful to think of here in terms of what it meant for the party going forward, which is that goldwaterism did define the next 50 years of the republican party

absolutely and the huge historic defeat he had at the ballot box in november which is also a possibility who the heck knows if trump is nominated. douglas brinkley, charlie pierce, thank you, gentlemen. >> thanks. how donald trump could do what everyone thought was impossible, put the house of representatives in play for democrats. is that possible? we'll get to it ahead. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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hillary clinton for president. telling britain's telegraph newspaper she is telling everybody one thing but she has a hidden agenda. once she is in the presidency she is going to come out and her true colors are going to show. headlines screaming grand dragon endorses hillary clinton followed. grand dragon endorsement of clinton comes with an apparent change of hard. as gawker pointed out, he tweeted, donald trump, you, sir, are the only hope we have of getting white america back. we will all be voting for you. church of invisible empire. mr. quigg, we see you, dude.

new analysis just released today of the election map in november shows it may already be too late for the republican party to avoid a major political realignment this fall. cook political report, one of the nation's most respected election forecasters gets way down in the weeds of all 435

house races the ones that almost no one else is paying very close attention to yet. it just revised its projections for ten of the races with all of the changes favoring democrats. that's due to the possibility of either donald trump or ted cruz holding the top spot on the republican ticket. politico reports today that endangered house republicans facing tough re-election races are planning to adopt a simple strategy if trump is the nominee. disregard the racket in the presidential race and keep it local. it's a safe bet that democrats will do all they can to make those lawmakers answer for their party's standard barer. no one expected the house to be in play this year with republicans holding a huge, historic majority. but now there's an outside chance control could possibly be up for grabs if things break the right way. now in the senate, democrats were already positioned to do relatively well this fall. defending just 10 seats compared to 24 on the republican side. "the new york times" reported back in february that majority

leader mitch mcconnell has begun preparing senators for a trump nomination. threatened to harm them in the general re-election, they could run negative ads about trump. several of those senators up for re-election are from states won by barak obama in 2008 and 2012. mark cook from illinois are now breaking not just with the presidential candidates but with their own senate leadership. the plan to block the president's supreme court nomination. >> we should go through the process the constitution has already laid out. the president has already laid out a nominee who is from chicagoland, and for me, i'm open to see him, to talk to him. >> i believe you should, in fact, advise and consent on the nominee. and if you should vote it down, you vote it down. then it's back to the president. >> right. it's just man up and cast a vote. >> speak with someone who is in a state, not illinois but another state, where this could matter the most next. pet moments are beautiful, unless you have allergies.

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whewhat does it look like?ss, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. joining me now from madison, wisconsin, ruth. i want to talk to you because you're in wisconsin and you know wisconsin politics and wisconsin strikes me as the perfect sort of testing ground for this theory, right? it is a state that reliably goes to democrats in presidential elections but in off years has elected scott walker, elected ron johnson who kicked out russ feingold. how do you see this falling into shape with either trump or cruz atop the ticket?

>> well, it's a really interesting question, chris, because i don't think anybody really knows the answer to it. i mean, it is possible that the democrats are right that they're going to sweep down ballot races because people hate trump and that the republicans are right to be worried about that, but it's also possible that here in the industrial midwest there are a lot of populous of the type who support trump and the type who really if hillary clinton is the nominee are not going to be enthused about her. it's an interesting environment. it's very unstable. you know, in the ron johnson/russ feingold race, what's fascinating there, ron is a iran accolate, he has these very right wing politics, tea party. he run against the washington establishment. russ feingold was a maverick and appealed to a lot of libertarians, parted ways with clinton administration on things like spying. he is really a guy who runs a more populist campaign, very big on fair trade, for example.

and so i think that's the question. this year, how is the democratic party going to kind of run against trump if trump is the nominee and how is that going to look? there are a lot of voters who are not reliable voters who will determine the outcome of that. >> part of what we've seen is the nationalization of elections. this is a trend. feingold lost in 2010 because that race was so, a, nationalized by the republican party and, b, they were able to motivate their base. the folks who showed up in 2008 to vote in obama and democratic majorities in both houses some percentage didn't show up in 2010. and russ feingold was the victim of that. if you get a mobilization and anti-trump mobilization on that scale, you can see benefits from democrats down ticket. >> yes, that's true. but then you also have to have people motivated to come out and vote. >> you sound worried about that in wisconsin. >> well, that's what walker did.

he motivated the hard right people to come out and vote, really the anti-choice people in droves. as you pointed out, we're a blue state usually in a presidential year, but it just depends on who is really motivated to come out. and i think, you know what you've seen -- when trump says i can take states like michigan that have never been republican, he is saying something that's significant. there's an economic populist message that's really resonating this year. and on the left, bernie sanders has been the candidate with that message and has churned up a ton of enthusiasm, won michigan in a surprise way, was stalled after that across the midwest, so is not looking as likely to be able to make it all the way to the nomination, but where does that really leave things? >> but here is my question -- >> you have to understand that that's an important factor this year. >> i think it is. i was just reading a piece hillary clinton has more votes than anyone. that in some ways so much focus has been on trump and bernie sanders i think for obvious reasons for trump particularly, but, you know, there's a

sizable -- there are a lot of votes that she has gotten. she has gotten more votes than any other candidate. and the obama coalition is an intact thing that one can imagine being preserved in the fall if the right things fall into place. >> if a voter id doesn't suppress voter turnout, who can't cast a vote, that's huge. voter suppressant is huge. >> good point. >> enthusiasm from people who don't always vote. >> right. >> i don't know that the obama enthusiasm is transferable to hillary and the saying enthusiasm is transferable to hillary. what i do know it's an economic populist year and trump has this message as you pointed out so well is an old right wing message as well that combines attacking the wrong people, attacking immigrants and people of color with this economic populist message that's really appealing. some white working class voters dismissed the racist part and others of them resonate to them. i think we would be foolish to say he is never going to win. that's a mistake the republicans made all along.

>> i totally agree. people should not underestimate to the degree he will be a motivator for large segments of a coalition that may not be enthused otherwise. ruth, thank you very much. >> yeah. that's all for this evening. good evening, rachel. have a great weekend. >> thanks. you, too. happy friday, lots going on. very busy night tonight in presidential politics. still at this hour, at this hour senator ted cruz is in arizona getting ready to hold what his campaign is calling an american rally in phoenix, arizona this hour. what makes tonight's ted cruz rally more american than his other rallies is unclear, but he will be joined on stage tonight by other people who are also americans, including talk show host glen beck and former texas governor rick perry and carly fiorina. earlier today, in arizona, senator cr t