good evening, once against. 6:00 p.m. in new york, 3:00 p.m. in los angeles. nightfall brings candlelight vigil, lights from above from helicopters, all because of the terrorist attack. the death toll at 31. 231 thereabouts injured, and the investigation now full bore into who did this. our chief foreign correspondent, richard engle, rejoins us in the studio. richard, we've learned from tom costello in the last hour that apparently it worked this way.

the taxi driver believes he took the suspects to the airport. they were protective of their bags. their bags were heavy. they turned into the explosives at the airport. that's what led police so quickly to the -- >> did the taxi driver actually handle the luggage. >> they said no, we've got this. turned out what we believed to be baggage bombs put on those carts, and detonated in the airport. that's why police were in the air so quickly, did the raid on the house. found unexploded bomb materials, chemicals, nails and isis flag. what else can you add about the kind of overarching investigation into this explosion of violence today? >> so two pieces. the working theory in the u.s. intelligence community is that that tack was linked to paris. that the leader of this cell thought that he and others were

going to get rolled up, were going to get arrested quite soon. got panicky and changed the time frame for attack that had been in the planning for some time. this goes back to the arrest of the paris bomber, fugitive on friday, that after his arrest, and by all accounts, has been cooperating with belgian authorities, his comrades out free, thought they were next and decided to use it or lose it, to make it a crude cliché. that's one thing. also, i've just learned from an intelligent source that through chatter, u.s. intelligence officials or the intelligence community i should say, believed that there would be an imminent attack in europe three to four weeks ago. so three to four weeks ago, based on their gathering of chatter, which is all sorts of sweeping up of communications, they thought somewhere in europe, an attack of this scale

was imminent. but unfortunately, it wasn't specific enough as to where or when or how or by whom to act upon it. also concerning, the same intelligence source says he is not sure that what happened in brussels was that imminent attack. >> right. >> because something terrible happens, was this specific to the cell that had to change their time frame because of this arrest, or was this always the imminent attack that they had been hearing about in chatter up to three or four weeks ago? >> in the trade, it's called significan signet. was this the one? we believe we intercepted them talking about. >> how do you know? i guess the intelligence they had wasn't specific enough to know where or when. it was just in europe, something

big imminent. so something big happened within that time frame. is it -- was that it? i hate to say, we're going to have to see over the nex couple of days, weeks, maybe even months to see if there is a follow on to this. >> richard engle here with us in the studio as our chief foreign correspondent, chd, thank you, as always. over to the streets of brussels we go. dickey, long ti jost and these days, the foreign editor of "the daily beast," and msnbc contributor, outside the subway station where the second bomb blast took place. chris, let's talk about belgium for a bit. why is it that it has the highest number of forei ghters of all, perhaps free nations, certainly european nations, it's believed?

>> well, i don't know if there is a specific answer about belgium as such, but there is a general situation here that plays very well into the hands of jihadists. you had two, three generations ago, you had workers brought from north africa to work in factories, that then went bankrupt, collapsed, no more j.o.p jobs, they stayed in belgium and became embedded in the local communities. the economy changed. the economy of molenbeek is a ann economy of hash dealers, drug dealers, a lot of aimless young guys, block economy, with not a lot to do, and in fact, two particular examples of this would be brahim aslamb in paris,

and salah who was arrested on ay. ese artwo losers. they're n brilliant guys. they never went to syria. they didn't learn how to do this stuff. they were recruited because when the jihadists come to you, they're going to give you a purpose in life, show you how to be a man, a hero. and this is a seductive line for a lot of these guys. a little bit like gangster rap in neighborhoods in the united states. this is how you show the man, and that's the technique that's used a lot of the time. it isn't nearly as much religious as it is basically appealing to testtoss reen. >> i'm going to at some risk paraphrase, saying they've never held a job, never had a position of responsibility, nor have they

ever held a woman's hand. those three components make them susceptible to what you just mentioned. i did hear you saying earlier on the air that for a lot of them, france remains the big target to the south. while there are so many foreign fighters on a per capita basis in belgium, 11 million give or take, france, the crass phrase, and why is that christopher? >> well, because look, one of the things that's happening here is that the belgian authorities, one of the reasons they were so weak on this is because they didn't think there would be a -- maybe they gf to sia, maybe they come back. we're not aarget here in belgium. we don'tive trouble. france on the other hand is fighting wars over africa and in the middleeast. against al qaeda, against isis,

against their spinoffs, and affiliates in those regions. france is a major target. and this, in the old world of jihad, this a great base to attack france, charlie hebdo and with the november 13th attacks. as the heat got turned up here, then the spotlight of the jihadists turned on belgium itself and we started to have small scale taxattacks and thene big one. >> christopher dickey, thanks for staking with us from the cold streets of brussels after a long day in brus and aoss belgium day. chstopher dickey of the bailey beast. next, we want to bring in b one, a global reporter, flora, you've been sampling opinion on the streets, correct? >> yes, we've been down at the

square where people have been leaving their tributes to their who lost their lives today. i'm just getting a sense of how brussels is responding to this tragedy. >> i've heard from some people today that there was a sense of inevitable about this. we feared, we knew an attack was coming. we didn't know when. after paris, that it became more and more likely, and given the fact that, again, per capita, so many former foreign fighters are living in the nation. tell us some of the opinion you were able to sample. >> well, i felt very much that there was a sense of defiance more than anything else today, in the square, where people were gathering together, people from all over the world, all religions, all races.

i think maybe there was a feeling that it was inevitable, but a feeling that it is inevitable how you respond to this. so you so people were out on the streets to show the support for those who lost their lives to show their support for the rest of their community. and so show that they weren't afraid. they weren't going to be coward by this. >> it was the public reaction in paris. it certainly appears to be in these early pictures tonight of the vigils and so for the. -- forth in brussels. in the meantime, there has to be some unease, after a tremendous loss of life. always a question, is it over. >> people are definitely scared. you can feel it in the air. i mean, the streets are desserted here. you don't expect that in a city like this. the streets being -- since we arrived halfway through the

afternoon, people are sticking to government advice, staying at home. you probably see far more tributes out tomorrow, but today, people, i -- we have the impression, people are staying at home, and they're keeping safe and keeping out of danger. >> yeah, the expression used was a virtual lockdown of the streets of brussels. and i hope you're correct, tomorrow is a more vibrant day, as christopher dickey was saying. most of the vehicles you see in brussels are the kind we're showing on the air right now, with blue flashing lights on the roof. flora drurry, thank you for joining us, a global reporter with the daily mail. we're back with the security analyst who said to us today that what we're witnessing is nothing short of a strategic campaign to destabilize all of europe.

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jihad. this is the ererie pictures tha came in from the batman search light on the police helicopter over a neighborhood in brussels tonight. we have since learned that it was this simple. a cab driver got home, heard about the terrorist attack at the airport and realized that the three men he drove to the airport were likely thepects involved. r little bit of a s tussle trying to help them with their bags. they were terribly heavy. they were protective of them. it turns out, they were explosives that took apart the central terminal and killed so many at the airport. we're joined by malcolm nance, a

man who in addition to being a u.s. navy veteran, is a veteran of the special operations world, the homeland security world, the intelligence gathering world. it was malcolm nance, and i forgot what time this was this morning, malcolm, that what we're witnessing, i wrote it down, is nothing short of a strategic campaign to destabilize all of europe by isis. that's a lot to say, a lot of people will find that a very depressing thought, a very worrisome thought. >> it is, but you have to look it from isis' perspective. even though we have them hold up in syria and iraq, self-made cal ln fet, egypt, yemen, what they're doing now is returning fighters and a european battle front. so in essence, they're throwing punches at europe. and every time we react

politically, diplomatically or air strikes, they sit down, calmly plan, activate networks, and then they throw another punch. some of them have been blocked. but today, they had a successful punch that landed. >> i should add, malcolm nance is also the author of the book called defeating isis. so mr. author, how is that done? if i read your comments correctly, there is an over reaction by the west, after each attack, that emboldens isis. it's hard to snuff out an idea? >> i have ee a said that many times. it's easy to shoot a man, easy to kill him with a bullet, but almost possible to kill an idea or ideology. it's the fifth generation, they've taken it and put it on steroids, social media, they're

able to infect the weakest people in the west. to come over and become this knight, this hero, to fight for the calfit where ever you are. we're seeing operative whose have already come to the calfit, come and fought, been trained, cleared members of the organization, sent back to their home nations, in an effort as we said to completely destabilize the political structure of europe. >> why does belgium have the highest number of these fighters. the neighborhood where they all live and work is basically weed and hash dealers black-market types. >> that part of brussels, belgium was a very open society. they allowed a lot of north africans to move there. many of the people who came from morocco, algeria, these countries found they didn't have something more to be offered to them. and this is where the ideology is so insidious. less of an ideology than a

religious virus issued out by a cult group. it is actually an islamic cult. when they get hold of that in their head, they cannot just be a muslim, but god's own personal ask y ex ex exectore until the end of time, they're taken over by professional intelligence officers, who manipulate them and deploy them back to their country for the betterment for what they think is their variation of is lom. >> -- islam. >> that's a problem when it becomes san bernardino or in brussels, and how do you snuff it out then? >> well, now you're talking about inspirational operations. this is an intelligence heavy mission, you find them, you kill them. inspirational, we're going to have to take a different approach for this. i've been hammering this for ten years. this is a cult.

there have been four other cults in islamic history, each one of them is snuffed out when it reached a level of insult to the point where they obliterateted. we'll be crushed in the shadows, he said. the muslim world has been saying for years these people are not muslims. what they're doing is un- un-islamic, and we have to help them spread this message far and wide. we give this group far more than those who reject their ideology. >> is it achievable? >> it is. the funny thing, the united states had a structure to counter nazi propaganda, to counter the soviet union for almost 50 years, where we had agencies, organizations, voice

of america, radio free europe, where all we do is broadcast the correct version of what soon would lead to the fall of the soviet union. >> radio marte, not as effective, but it existed. what we're doing, we have a small office at the state department, you know, led by mike lumpkin. they're going to have to process the rest of the message, but the news media won't carry it for them. we have to make it a national effort. when you do that, the muslim on the street will understand, you know, there is correct and traditional islam. it's been here for 1,439 years. these people are not practicing islam and we need to defend them. we need to defend their message. as opposed to trying to push people into the arms of isis with hateful rhetoric. >> final question. you sound almost like there is optimism within you. >> of course there is optimism with me. the war fighter in me says

kinetics, go out, drop the bomb off on targets, degrade their physical demand structures. the intelligence officer says go in there, deceive them, you know, discredit them. undermine their ideology on its whole. we have to do it with our values, and assist our allies. 1.6 muslims in the muslim world. >> malcolm nance is the author of "defeating isis," as he has proven here tonight. thank you for stopping by. >> my pleasure. >> we'll take a break. when we come back, we'll talk to someone who was on the metro at the time of the explosion, early this morning.

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and villains need cars. ♪ when your symptoms start... distracting you? doctors recommend taking ...non-drowsy claritin every day of your allergy season. claritin provides powerful, non-drowsy 24 hour relief... for fewer interruptions from the amazing things you do every day. live claritin clear. it was the morning rush hour, 8:00 a.m., local time in brussels, belgium. this was the first strike at the airport, and then, of all things, at 9:11 a.m., the metro station was hit. two different explosions, two very powerful explosions, so far, a death toll of 31, 230 people injured. and this was the scene someone had the presence of mind to shoot this video in the dark,

metro tunnel. the explosion really did a lot of damage to one car, and obviously, crippled the train, as people held each other through the tunnel. this video, also has the sound of a baby crying in the background. evan was on the train behind the one that was hit. he is a journalist. he is an msnbc contributor. evan, i heard you talking about your ears and what you felt, and it reminded me of the dismounted infantry in iraq and afghanistan who would often wear earplugs if they were in combat, because of what explosions would do to the ear pressure around them. what was the first thing you experienced? >> hi, brian. the first thing i experienced was a small blast of air. it felt like a fan on my face, or maybe like someone shutting a door, and feeling the draft. but then my ears popped, and the metro quickly stopped. we heard some soft thudding in

the distance, and then an announcement came on the metro saying there had been a disturbance on the line and they were going to try to resolve it as quickly as possible. >> tell us about you, where you were from originally and what you do for a living, and this is when you would be commuting by rail? >> i'm originally from the u.s. born i new jersey and grew up south of atlanta. i've been living in belgium for the last 15 years. i work for you're active, e.u. policy news. it's head quartered right by the european institutions. indeed, i'm normally on my way to work a little bit before or after 9:00, depending on the day. so i was on my way, on my daily commute to my office. >> well, you tell us, then, has there been since paris, a feeling that this was, i mean, the president said today that i'm going to paraphrase him, but we fear there would be attack,

we didn't know when. was there a feeling of inevitab inevitablety in all these months. >> of course after the attacks on paris, there was a heightened sense of security here in brussels, but it kind of died down or at least i think residents here in brussels got used to it. so it became common to see military guards in some of the main transportation stops here, centers here outside of government buildings, and so there was maybe in the back of our minds, the idea that there was still something ongoing, active case. but i guess life had in some ways returned to normal, and this heightened security was just an everyday experience. >> evan, this video that you shot is going to exist as a large part of the visual evidence on how we remember this day. first of all, what did you shoot it with? how did you have the presence of

mind to hold your ground and record this moment? you really didn't know at that point if something else was coming. >> so i shot it on my iphone, which i had out already. he was reading the news on my way to work, which i usually do, and i was reading about the attacks at the airport. and concerned about that, i had a few friends who were posting on social media, who had been around the airport. so i was checking to see if they were okay. when the incident happened, it really didn't seem like it was very close to where i was. i didn't really have an idea how incredibly close it was. and so you know, i had my phone out, i decided to take a few snaps and take a few pictures, videos, thought maybe it would be useful for my onus coverage later in the day. really with no idea how close we really were. >> i was startled, the only sound for a while is one, crying child, being comforted by the

mother, and i was startled also at how orderly the evacuation was. >> indeed. it was fairly calm. everyone for the most part went calmly towards the exit, and was being evacuated calmly. i have to say that the child who was crying was actually crying because he had been picked up by someone other than his mother, he didn't know. he wasn't hurt. he was just shocked at what was going on. he didn't know the person who was carrying him. the mother was struggling with the stroller, someone else carried that. so there was definitely a sense of camaraderie. people helping the passengers as we got off the metro to get down the ladder. everyone was helping each other as we walked on the tracks to backtrack and get out of that area, and to evacuate from the closest metro station. >> we had another journalist this hour say it felt like it was over, that the worst of it is over there tonight, and it felt defiant there tonight.

would you concur with that? >> i do. i hope that the reaction here will be calm and thoughtful, and not overly emotional, or overly fearful, which i think is what probably the attackers wanted. and i am sensing that somewhat here in brussels, and i hope that continues. >> always happy to have a fellow new jersey a native. thank you for staying up with us after an eventful day in brussels, belgium. we appreciate it, as we appreciate the video you shot of a terrible scene there. thank you very much. >> you're welcome. you're going to go to jim at the pentagon, who has more on a u.s. service member, who was wounded in that attack today, along with four other family members. jim. >> reporter: brian, u.s. military officials confirm it was an air force lieutenant c.

they were caught up in brussels today. they won't give any details. and they won't even discuss the fact, well, they will say that four members of the family, besides the lieutenant himself, were wounded in the attacks, but they do say that the injuries they sustained were not life threatening whatsoever. it is believed that all five family members, including the lieutenant are going to be just fine. it's not unusual to see u.s. military families traveling through europe. after all, for a young family in the service member in the military, that's a prime assignment there in europe, because it opens an entire new world to their children. they compete for those jobs in europe. in this case, however, it ended in what had to be an horrific,

horrific day there in brussels for that entire family, fortunately, they were not apparently seriously wounded. and their wounds are not life threatening, brian. >> all we know is active duty, air force, lieutenant, we don't know where he is stationed exactly? >> no. but most of those that are in the brussels region, they could be stationed there in brussels, actually. but most are at ucom, which is in germany. it's not unusual to see, again, those families traveling throughout europe. you remember, just last august, it was an air force airman, who jumped a man in france and stopped a terrorist act there. he himself was seriously wounded and even though he was wounded, he actually stuck his thumb in the neck of a bullet wound in one of the passengers, and saved his life. so again, not unusual to see american service members and

their families traveling through europe, and in this case, unfortunately, it ended in what could have been tragedy. but was obviously horrific, brian. >> all right, jim. at the pentagon for us. >> you bet. we know of three other americans, they are mormon missionaries, jacob soboroff is in salt lake city, where he was there to cover the voting tonight. this is a political primary and caucus night in three states out west. jacob, what do we know? >> reporter: brian, as you said, the mormon community is very influential, and in fact, very sizable here in the great state of utah, 60% of residents are of the mormon faith and tonight, their focus was supposed to be on the utah caucus, in picking

the next president of the united states. tonight, the energy of this community, the emotion and focus is on something else entirely. three missionaries were involved in this blast and severely injured in the blast in the airport in brussels, and a fourth missionary, a young french woman to serve her year and a half mission here in ohio, was also injured and is hospitalized. we've learned their names. we have their pictures. joseph empey, richard norby, 66 years old, wells, rich al fanny. i want to say while these young men, the who young men thought they were going to europe to serve other people on their two year mission as companions with each other, they could have never imagined would be the ones requiring help. as it turns out, mason wells, one of the young missionaries here from utah, happened to be

in boston when his mother was running the marathon, a few blocks from that bombing, serving his mission in paris, and the time of the attack. i want to reiterate, they're all expected to survive. we've been in constant communication with the mormon church here in salt lake and they're going to keep us apprised of any updates, brian. >> we're certainly happy all are going to be okay, after having been involved in this awful attack today. jacob, thanks. we'll take another break and our coverage will continue, right after this. (avo) after 50 years of designing cars for crash survival, subaru has developed our most revolutionary feature yet. a car that can see trouble and stop itself to avoid it. when the insurance institute for highway safety tested front crash prevention nobody beat subaru models with eyesight.

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we are back. before we talk with a career service officer, as we look at the candlelight vigil on the squares in brussels, belgium,

let's bring in ryan heath. he is in brussels, politico europe's senior correspondent. ryan, i know you, i guess, took issue is too strong when you heard president hollande of france talk about today's attacks. what are you writing for politico about what this means to belgium and perhaps as france as well. >> i'm looking beyond that, brian. it's really a question of not just recapping what we've seen today, because those scenes were absolutely horrific and the stories i i've listened to about people literally being blown up in front of the people we've been speaking to, obviously being horrific, but political implications too. there is going to become a moment of recognizireconing. they've scrambled very hard

since november to up their game, and stop what we saw today, they had so much ground to catch up, they weren't really able to do it. so they'll be real questions, once belgians start to see which colleagues, which neighbors, which community figures have been injured or lost. they're going to have some tough questions for their government. for france, we've been hearing from our sources that the government is quietly but very clearly essentially shifting the blame onto the belgians, and that's not a nice tit for tat coming days. we're going to see people trying to light a fire under the refugees, and try to link the refugees, that's going to be a difficult set of sentiments to manage. as wide as the u.k. referendum in june, whether they would like to be a member of the european union. people will use these attacks to question whether security can be managed properly in a framework

like the european unit. cascading effects. as you know all too well. when someone like donald trump runs in like a bull into the china shop, as he has today, that isn't going to go down well. we'll see it play off in the candidates as they talk in the next couple of days. >> you could not know that was our next suggest meant, the subject of our prime time programming. >> mr. trump tends to do that, brian. he tenlds to do that. >> we have 20to go on. thank you very much for staying up with us. all of which brings us to former ambassador, nick burns, who among his many posts in 27 years as a foreign service officer, was ambassador to nato. nato is in the news, because yesterday, in more than one occasion, donald trump, i guess didn't call for our withdrawal from nato, called for a change

in america's relationship with nato, said we're paying too much for our share, correct? >> correct. he questioned whether nato was really in our interest, in the modern age. he said it goes back to a buy gone era. >> why did that change? >> he wasn't right to say it yesterday and certainly not right to think it today. we have common cause with the europeans. we suffered a catastrophic terror attack. i was the a. they voted to go at war with us. a lot of them wept to iraq with us. it's good to have friends in the world. this threat of terrorism, we can't defeat it on our own. there has to be judicial cooperation, intelligence cooperation. most of these european countries are fighting with us, in the air campaign against the islamic st. this is yesterday's story, this

is what we have to have. we're so lucky to have it, not just have sympathy, of course we do with the belgians, but we have to have common cause and work with them. >> malcolm nance, the veteran security analyst said to us this morning, and we've been quoting him all day, this is nothing less than a strategic campaign to destabilize all of europe on the part of isis. do you agree with that assessment? >> i do agree with it. you think what's happened to the europeans over the last five years, their currency vladimir putin invaded crimea, posing a threat to the europeans and nato alliance. now the refugee crisis. the politics of oeurope weakene. >> it's going to play out for years to come. >> it is. you're now beginning to see the rise of far right parties, not just in greece in hungary and germany, united kingdom and

france. i never fought and i bet we go back with this story, that the european union will be fundamentally destabilized, this was the wealthiest place on earth, after the two world wars, and now they're turned upside down. this is dividing the europeans. >> a lot of people who fear the worst fear that we're seeing some version of the 1930s in europe right now. >> i think that might be an exaggeration. no one in power. >> let's hope it is. >> that's right. no one in power remotely close to musolini or hitler. you have barriers going up and this was the european of 500 million people. now the borders are shutting down. so the fundamental fabric if you will of this united europe is beginning to unravel. germany has to stay strong, its leader, by far the most

important leader in angelo american, we have to hope she survives these political tests that will happen in the next couple of months and year. >> how do you hunt down an idea the origins in the midwest east but lives in brussels and san bernardino. >> it's incredibly difficult. someone said ten years ago, american general, fighting a long war, and i think we are. you know, we've got to fight them in iraq and syria where the air force is doing a magnificent job of trying to degrade them, but now it has they have groups pledging allegiance, so you've got a regional problem that extends from the atlantic coast of after karks all the way over to the middle east, all the way up much through europe. it has become a continent tal threat in two places, africa and europe. a fight we've got to win. i think it will be for the next president and maybe the president after that to help the

europeans contain and ultimately defeat the threat. >> if we're not careful, the world is going to need veteran diplomats again. former ambassador, nick burns, thank you, as always. another break from our coverage. we'll be back right after this. where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections,

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and tom, you were able to supply the reporting this evening, as to just how they hunted down who the three suspects may have been in the airport. >> reporter: so flemish television in belgium has been reporting it was a taxi driver who thought maybe something was a bit strange this morning. he dropped off three individuals at the airport and thought that they were first of all acting strangely, according to belgian tv, and then he also thought their bags were abnormally heavy. he couldn't get them out of the taxicab. once the event happened, once the explosions occurred, that belgian taxicab driver place, i may be able to connect the dots here. he took the police to the suspects' house where he picked them up originally and that's when we saw this intense police presence in the belgian neighborhood of scarbake on the perimeter of brussels, if you

will, and that's where we saw the tactical units move in and allegedly recover a bomb with nails in it, some chemicals, and an isis flag. that's all happening in belgium. i can tell you from a transportation perspective, the american officials in brussels are asking u.s. government officials who might travel to brussels and there are a lot of people who travel to brussels regularly, it is the capital of europe, asking them to postpone at least a week, until march 29th. in the short run, that will be relatively easy, because the brussels airport will certainly not be open tomorrow. unlikely to be opened thursday. american airlines says it is not even sure about friday at this point. american canceling its flights. planning the rest of the week by ear. in the meantime, in u.s. airports, the homeland security is changing their posture on security in really a nuanced way. beef you have security with the

assistance of state and local police as much as possible across the country, adding other safety measures or security measures we might not be aware of. they're also doing a double-check on anyone with a belgium passport, who might be on the tsa watch list, the terror watch list, i should say. a lot of parts moving and unseen, seen and unseen, that homeland security is initiating tonight across the country. but it will be a nuance to change and posture, not a dramatic change at u.s. airports, brian. >> tom costello, busy in washington. thank you for all of it. an as part of our last segment f this hour of our coverage, we're going to talk to two experts on terrorism. chair of contempoorary, evan, an

analyst, analyzes this kind of thing for a living and has done so for dod, doj. and the fbi. welcome to you both. fawad, to you, this is a very grim assessment all day that we're looking at our future, that isis is trying very hard to destabilize the continent, and in a country like belgium, with the highest per capita average of foreign fighters, now living within its boundaries, it's going to get very difficult to police, is it not? >> yes. i mean i think though, brian, there was nothingisin about the attacks that took place in belgium, as you know. belgium has been bracing for such attacks for quite a long

time. as you said, belgium has one of the largest in terms of proportion population, one of the largest infrastructure of terrorists in europe. you have sleeping cells, belgian militants and extremists have played a pivotal part, is the security forces in he will jbel nothing surprising. here is the point. it's very essential not to really exaggerate the extent of the threat. even though we should not under estimate what iz and what al qaeda have done in the last one or two years, the message to belgium and europe is it is a message drenched in blood. the target is not truly basically, i mean, defeat or somehow create instability inside europe. i don't buy this. the powerful message is to try

to change, to strategically shift european policies, visa advice, syria and iraq. if you read the statement by the so-called islamic stated to, it says very clearly that we basically, our fighters or marters carried t attacks in belgium, because belgium is mber of the arin coalition. that's wing a war against the islamic state in iraq and syria. so evehough i think is has shown capac theitinast year insted major capitol in attacking the far enemy, europe and north america and other places, still, the strategic target is syria and iraq,nd what they' tinto do is create chaos and itability and pani but also to try to cha e foreign policies of europe an the united states,yrnd iraq, where it's strategic

prize, infrastructure is located. >> we'll take your idea and run it past evan coleman in the studios in new york. what do you make of that? >> look, i think it's important to understand the rule that syria has played in this. but i think it's also important to understand that there are different reasons that this have gone into the target of that tack. when we say bill belgium being -- belgium is not the number one enemy if you had to pick adversarieadversaries. the real reason they were targeted, it has to do with factors inside of iraq and syria. >> are you saying easy target? >> no, i think the truth is, number one, there are social reasons. a problem in belgian society that has led these communities to grow up underneath belgian society with no connection whatsoever to the mainstream

we're ghettoizing communities there. that c't happen. you have communities, at least some people of which sympathize with these folks and willing to provide shelter to people who are mass murders. that's a statement that needs to be answered. why do these people feel so disconnected from society. i think the other question we have to ask is how did the belgian government allow so many people, so many of its own nationals to go to syria and iraq to begin with. more belgians have gone than french nationals. it's a tiny country. you do have to ask, number one, why did so many belgian nationals go, and number two, why did their government allow them to go. >> the only peril of having two passionate, well spoken learned men on at the end of the hour, is they both in one comment each can en capsulate and sometimes must an entire segments.

to fawad in our dllondon studio and to evan, our thanks. this will ends our latest hour of the terror attacks on belgium. chris matthews will take over for the next hour. [tires screec] and villains need cars. ♪ wrely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywhere. united states postalvice else in the country. priority:you

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good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. we're continuing to follow breaking news from brussels, where earlier this morning, a series of bombing at the airport, and in the subway system, killed 31 people and injured nearly 200 more. the first two blasts hit the departure hall of brussels main airport around 8:00 a.m. local time or 3:00 a.m. eastern time here. another explosion went off about an hour later near a metro station near the european union. the authorities released this photo a short time before