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good afternoon, everyone, i'm ayman mohyeldin, it's 4:00 on the east coast, but it's 10:00 here in brussels, and we're live from place de la bourse. we're following new developments out of the netherlands this hour. a 32-year-old man is being detained because he's suspected of involvement in preparing a terrorist attack. france requested the detainment. police are holding three other suspects. and here, right wing protesters dressed in black marched into the city center here in brussels earlier today. hundreds of riot police pushed them back and dispersed them with water cannons. police say about a dozen protesters were arrested. a new series of police raids took place today, 13 house searches were carried out. police took in nine people for questioning and five were released. four remain in cuss died. and we're follying a developing story about another attack. this time, in lahore, pakistan. police say 63 people, mostly women and children, were killed and more than 300 were injured when a suicide bomber targeted a children's park on easter

sunday. for the latest on the situation in brussels, i'm joined by nbc's keir simmons. he's been here in the place today la bourse all day. what can you tell us about what happened this morning with the far right wing protest that took place at the place de la bourse? >> well, the square is right behind me. and you can see right now it's peaceful. as you can see yourself, ayman. but at one point, a group of some hundred right wing demonstrators, calling themselves soccer fans, soccer supporters, arrived in the square chanting, they then had a standoff with the police, and with others who were calling them in return fascists. the police worked very quickly to move them out of the square, riot police steadily pushing them through that square you can see behind me followed by water cannons and then things did get very tense. the water cannon fired on those protesters. the protesters threw missiles

and in some cases flares. and then there was a running confrontation, if you like, for about half a mile along the street to the train station. we were running with them, there were a number who were on the floor arrested, and being taken away. they got to the train -- the rail station there, and they were put back on trains, and sent back to other parts of the country where they had come from. >> all right. keir simmons live for us here in the place de la bourse overlooking the square. in the wake of the deadly attacks in brussels a lot of questions are being raised about security in europe. former cia director michael hayden says that the european union sometimes gets in the way of its own security services. with me now to discuss it, vice president of the heritage foundation, james carafano and senior correspondent for political here in europe, ryan heath. let me begin with you if i may, let's talk a little bit about where european security failed.

and are those gaps being addressed following last week's attack? >> well, the biggest challenge in europe just seems to be capacity and capabilities, particularly in countries that have a large extremist lay down like france and belgium. i remember meeting a couple of years ago with the french interior minister, when the foreign fighters going from france and belgium really started to peak and he said boy, we have a really serious problem here. we've got big numbers. we can't track all these people. we're worried about them coming back. so it's not that france and belgium didn't know that they've got a expansive threat. i just think they don't have the capacity and capability to match it. >> well, okay, let's bring in ryan heath here. there's a connection between the paris attacks as well as the brussels attack, and in fact former head of counterterrorism in the united states, michael lighter was on our show this morning called "meet the press" and he talked about that. take a listen to what he had to say. >> this is the first time since 9/11 that we have had a cell or

network in the west conduct an attack, and then it survives to fight another day and launch another attack. and this is after four months of intensive investigation -- >> this has never happened in any other incident, we're usually able to eliminate -- >> what are your thoughts on that? >> well, let's imagine conservatively that there are several dozen people in this one cell. and there could be more, because we know there's at least 120 trained fighters. isis trained fighters who've returned back into belgium alone in the last two years. now, normally it would take between 10, 15 -- potentially up to 20 intelligence officers to properly monitor each one of those people who could be involved in planning a terror attack. the belgian services have a total of 700 people in their whole security service operation. and many of those positions are vacant at the moment. so there's absolutely a capacity issue, that's for sure. but there are coordination and data management issues, as well. now some of that is naturally obvious. there are 28 countries in the european union. it's going to be more complicated to share the

information across languages, across borders. but there's massive gaps in how they do that. the other ministers are frequently criticizing belgium, when they get together in brussels. for example, not securing airports properly. and then thirdly, you have a situation where there's simply no data management. sometimes names are entered incorrectly. in the case of illegal weapons in belgium there's literally no data. there is no way to know how many illegal weapons there are in this country, let alone the bombmaking facilities. the every level the authorities are behind the game. >> so much european integration in some areas, still not on others. mr. carafano let's talk about the u.s. in terms of what it may have learned following a number of these different terrorist attacks that have taken place on european soil. what do you think the u.s. is learning in terms of its own strategies at home? >> the european threat is different than the american issue. and i think it's very, very -- a huge mistake to kind of conflate them. we have a much more disparate threat in the united states. so for example, radicalization

of mosques, we don't see a lot of terrorist activities in mosques. terrorists are smart enough to stay away from them. if you look at the laydown across the communities of the united states, it's arguable that we even see a lot of activity in islamic communities. matter of fact, some of the people that have radicalized in the united states are christians. and they've literally decided i'm going to be an inherent of isis and they do material support or go over there. so it's a very more disparate laydown in the united states. it's a very different threat. and i think we have to focus when we're looking at our domestic security, on the threat that we face, and not look at europe and do some kind of mirror imaging. >> so i know mr. carafano you've written a little bit about this. what are some of the questions facing security professionals in the u.s., and what's next in how to stop it? >> well, for the united states, you know, it's two pashts. one is keeping bad people from getting here. i mean we've had 85-plus islamist related terrorist plots aimed at the united states since 9/11. the overwhelming number have

been thwarted. for every boston or dallas, or -- or i'm sorry fort hood that maybe somebody heard about there's ten plots that was foiled. what stopped them was good counterterrorism, good information sharing. and the amazing diversity of these plots. increasingly what we're actually seeing in the united states are actually home grown. people who are developing here in their own little cells and organizing that. we're actually not seeing as many connected to -- physically connected to somebody operating overseas. so, it's a hard target to get here. we need to keep doing that. we need to be screening to make it a more difficult thing. but then, much of it really goes down to the local level, and the cooperation between state, federal and local law enforcement, looking for signs of a potential plot and then getting in there and investigating it appropriately. >> let me pick up on that point, that mr. carafano just raised. you've lived in europe a long time. you know it very well. the u.s. is urging european union officials to bolster their kind of cohesive security.

why is it such a challenge for them to do it when they all recognize this is a problem that affects all the member states of the eu? >> sometimes it's about the wake-up call. so let's dial back to the u.s. before 9/11, for example. it would have been harder to make those arguments in that environment. after 9/11, it's a no brainer. you just have to do it because you're simply irresponsible and negligent as a government if you don't do it. >> so now 9/11 moment for the eu? >> this is belgium's 9/11 moment. i'm not equating the scale. >> right. >> necessarily. but for belgium, it's going to have the same sort of impact. and for the french, who already had a better operation, paris is having a similar impact. so it's taken 15 years for the u.s. to get to the point where it's at now. it's going to take a little bit longer for the europeans to catch up. unfortunately, that's not going to be any comfort to anyone or the families of people who lose their lives in the meantime. >> all right. politico europe's ryan heath, and heritage foundation's james carafano in the u.s. thank you both for joining us and for your insights. >> go so after the break we're going to turn our folk us to to

politics back in the united states. bernie sanders hoping his wins will propel his momentum against hillary clinton. where the numbers stand straight ahead. osen the republican side, even more insults this easter sunday between donald trump, and ted cruz. over recent smears against each other's wives. take a listen. >> he's been hiding in trump tower but late at night he sends tweets attacking my wife, attacking heidi. it is inappropriate. it is wrong. it is frankly disgusting. >> i'm responding to what he does. but always the press likes to make me the bad guy. he's the one that started it. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms.

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hillary clinton in the hawaii caucus, as well. he is also the projected winner in alaska. and the washington state caucus as well. with 118 delegates up for grabs. sanders is now looking ahead to wisconsin, which holds its primary a week from tuesday. he told supporters there last night that he has momentum, and is confident he will win the democratic nomination. take a listen. >> we are making significant inroads in secretary clinton's lead, and we have, and we have with your support coming here in wisconsin, we have a path toward victory. >> even after his weekend's three victories, sanders still trails hillary clinton by nearly 700 delegates. msnbc's calipery is following the latest live for us in seattle. cal? >> it was a big night as you said for bernie sanders and it's

that margin of victory that he's really talking about today on the sunday morning talk shows. he not only spoke about the margin of victory but specifically those superdelegates, so many of whom people assume are in the clinton camp. bernie's saying listen when i win by a margin of 70%, 80% support, those superdelegates should swing my way. which could make for an interesting convention. also, as you mentioned, really this is about momentum. going in to wisconsin, and going in to new york a week after that. this should be setting up for a huge battle between the two. both of whom call new york a home state. the momentum really starting, i would say 48 hours ago when we saw that bird on that podium and the internet exploded with the birdie sanders tributes. we'll have to see if that momentum continues in wisconsin. which also should be advantage sanders when you look at the voting base there. a young, energetic group. a very liberal sort of town in madison, wisconsin, where we expect him to hold rallies in the coming days.

>> and i know, cal, there's been a potential controversy that's increasingly brewing over two yet to be scheduled debates that actually both hillary clinton and bernie sanders campaigns had initially agreed to. what -- here's what bernie sanders had to say on "meet the press" this morning about it. take a listen. >> i would hope very much that as we go in to new york state, secretary clinton's home state, that we will have a debate, new york city upstate wherever. on the important issues facing new york, and in fact the country. >> are you worried she won't debate you anymore? >> yeah, i do have a little bit of concern about that. but i certainly would like to see a debate in new york state. >> so is this going to become a bigger deal in the coming weeks, do you think? >> well, i think it probably will. and it's fascinating there, when you listen to the senator, you know, talking about the -- how this is hillary clinton's home state, he's probably going to play up the fact that he lived for a long time in brooklyn. and this is about exposure.

you know, we spend so much time talking about free advertising on the republican side, with donald trump having sort of changed the rulebook on how to deal with the media and being able to just call in to these shows and getting so much free media. well bernie sanders wants to get his face out there. he wants to get his face out there after what happened yesterday with this huge bump potentially from the victories in washington and alaska, and hawaii, of course. so a debate for him in new york, before the primary in new york, could be huge. >> all right. msnbc's cal perry live for us in seattle. thanks for that update, cal. on the republican side, senator ted cruz is hitting donald trump over his understanding of foreign affairs on fox news. calling him scared. >> his lack of understanding on foreign policy, his lack of ability and readiness to protect this country was evident so donald did what he always does. he tried to find a way to change the subject. he hasn't campaigned for a week. he's been hiding in trump tower. but late at night he sends tweets attacking my wife,

attacking heidi. it is inappropriate. it is wrong. it is frankly disgusting to see a candidate attacking the spouse of another. and -- and, and it is a sign of just how scared donald is right now because he doesn't want to discuss the substance. >> this after a week of the war over wives between donald trump and ted cruz. i want to bring in "time" magazine's jay netten small in magazine. i understand might not be with us. it's just going to be msnbc analyst jonathan alter who joins us. do you think that this is a smart strategy in terms of hitting trump over policy, rather than the name calling that he is so famous for? >> yeah, i think it's very smart of ted cruz who is a skillful politician. you have to give cruz credit, whatever you think of him, he's in this for the duration. he's organizing very well at the state convention level. so in some cases, for instance in louisiana, he's going to get more delegates out of louisiana,

even though trump won the primary. so, what he's doing here now is he's pinpointing the donald trump is thoroughly ignorant on the substance of issues. which has been very, very clear from these interviews he's given in recent days, to both "the new york times," and "the washington pos post". the problem for cruz is that what he's saying is also very dangerous for the national security of the united states. according to nonpartisan terrorism experts in this country. the reason being, if you talk about patrolling muslim neighborhoods, as ted cruz has, what does that do? it makes it very difficult to get intelligence, actionable intelligence, out of those neighborhoods. so as john kasich has said, it's the relationship with those neighborhoods that protect us, that keep us safe. so here ted cruz is attacking trump on his lack of knowledge on foreign policy, and yet he's recently said something that immediately makes us less secure

against terrorism. >> all right -- >> which trump echoes. trump is on record saying the same thing. it's important for people to understand both trump and cruz right now have positions that the experts say make us less safe against terrorism. >> all right. let's bring in "time" magazine's jane newton small. she now joins us as well. thanks for that. let's talk on the flip side of that. earlier this week ted cruz's campaign manager jeff rowe took a page from trump's playbook tweeting questions about trump's mental health. he wrote, why no events in four days? none planned for eight. ever had psychological -- what is hiding in medical records release? is that more effective do you think? >> look this is like, again, this is just going to get muddier and muddier. slinging mud at everything. we're talking about affairs. we're talking about who's healthy. who's got psychological problems, who's crazy. and it's all just mudslinging. it really is just getting

nastier and nastier. and i think it's going to get nastier and nastier as this race to the cleveland, the convention, heats up. because they are, you know, cruz is not letting go, and neither is the establishment. they're really anxious to not see donald trump be the nominee. and donald trump is obviously not going to let go. he's winning in the delegate count by more than -- almost 300 delegates. and there's no incentive for him to give up. so this is just bound to get nastier and nastier whether you're talking about america's security or you're talking about who's had an affair with whom or whether you're crazy or not. >> jay for months ted cruz said he would back donald trump as the nominee. it seemed that this week he backed away from that fast. take a listen to what he said. >> i don't make a habit out of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my family. and donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee. >> will it make a difference,

you think, if ted cruz or marco rubio or any republicans back donald trump? >> it will make a difference. especially if it's the contested convention. if ted cruz is saying i'm not going to release my delegates, if donald trump doesn't win outright in the first round of voting and it goes to a second round of voting that frees up a lot of those delegates. and ted cruz is saying from the get-go going into the nomination, you're not going to get any of my delegates, i'm going to drag this out, even if it takes 13 rounds of voting on the convention floor, it does make for an incredibly, ugly, prolonged primary. and that's, you know, could be potentially very detrimental to the republican party. because if you're not united going in to the convention and you're not united coming out of the convention, if the party cannot rally around one person here, then they're going to continue to be at odds with each other while hillary clinton, every day, seems to be more and more likely to be the democratic nominee. and that gives her an advantage of a lot of time of fund-raising, of consolidation of support, on the democratic

side while the republican side, even going into and out of the convention potentially will still be at odds with one another and that means that they're not going to be unified to really rally to campaign against her. >> jonathan, this is kind of a interesting controversy that's slightly brewing up over the republican convention. more than 25,000 people have signed a petition supporting and allowing people to actually bring guns to quicken loans arena which is going to host the convention later this summer. we know the arena itself actually bans all weapons. so the petition is actually calling on reince priebus and the rnc to move the convention away from there. and obviously keep in mind there are already security concerns. when you put it in the context of donald trump warning that there could be riots if he's denied the nomination, is this going to become a real ish yule for republicans? >> i don't think moving the convention will become an issue. the petition notwithstanding. but what will become an issue is you have this hypocrisy at the core of their position on guns

in public facilities. so, donald trump has said that if the people in the auditorium in paris had been armed, that not as many would have been killed by the terrorists. that's part of his stump speech and yet if you go to a donald trump event, as i've been to, what do they do? they check you for weapons with a metal detector on the way in. so trump is now in a position of saying, well, you know, we want other people in paris to be armed at events in case somebody opens fire, but at my events, now, no guns at my events. somebody else's events can have guns there. i think cruz basically has the same conceal carry position. so they're not going to allow guns in to the convention. pressure will build to allow guns in to their campaign events in states that allow it. >> all right, jane newton small and jonathan alter, thank you both for your time. we want to turn back now to the

brussels terror attack that took place here. two of the suspected suicide bombers behind the brussels attacks are actually brothers, continuing an alarming trend of siblings teaming up to carry out terrorist attacks similar to what we saw elsewhere. the barothers join the boston bombers, and "charlie hebdo." joining me from atlanta georgia state university professor mia bloom the co-author of the book all in the family, a primer on terrorist sub links. so quite a phenomena if you think about it, at least in recent context. i was wondering if your research you found that as many as a third of the people terror groups sent to carry out attacks like we saw in brussels or terrorists come from the same family. why do so many terrorists turn out to be siblings or relatives? >> just to be clear the research that was done was done by the new america foundation that looked at the to foreign

fighters. 30% had a family linkage. when we started to do research and look at specific organizations. and these were the organizations that were operative in the '80s and nineties, everything from the red brigades in italy to the provisional i.r.a., that's where we saw 25% to 30% were also involved with their siblings. to his goes back to the '70s and '80s. we can go back, i think, perhaps maybe people have noticed it more recently than was observed in the past. it's one of the reasons why we wrote the primer. so there were a lot of reasons why you would use siblings. the first one was for operational secrecy. it's very difficult to monitor siblings who are having conversations or phoning one another. if you call your brother six times in a week, no one's going to think that that's suspicious behavior. whereas if you call a stranger in pakistan six times a week you're going to get on the radar screen of the security services. but the same thing was true about have iing commit mkt and

trust for these high risk missions you need to trust who you're working with and be committed to carrying it out. and when you're working with either a sister or a brother, that's an automatic given. >> is there -- and you talk about this in terms of trust, but when it comes to actually carrying out the attack, is there a reason behind why as we saw in the case here in brussels the brothers were not involved in this same attack, i mean in the sense that one brother was the one who blew himself up at the subway station, the other was the one that blew himself up at the airport. >> we observed the exact same thing in 2004 with sisters who were chechen suicide bombers. one went to the airport, one went to the subway. dr. horgen's a psychologist so part of this may have to do with on the one hand the reason you may use siblings is that you don't want to disappoint your sibling, let alone the organization. but if it's two siblings in the exact same operation, it is possible that in the 11th hour, the love for the sibling may overcome the individual and they

think well you know what, let's not go and do this. let's at the last minute let's change our minds together. whereas if one is in one location and one is in the other, the assumption will be that they carried it out, so they certainly don't want to disappoint or disrespect the memory of that sibling, by having, you know, a last-minute change of heart. so we were thinking that that's one of the reasons you use siblings so that you don't change your mind. could be why they're not used at the same moment at the same operation. >> so how does that then play into what law enforcement needs to do? is there a, you know, vulnerability there that law enforcement can try to exploit? does that make it harder for law enforcement since you said this is a tight-knit sell, if you will, of blood lines >> you know, it's very challenging, because much of the behavior that would be suspicious falls under the radar screen when it's people who are related. by the same token though, having

members of the family intervene in the process of radicalization can be very powerful. we've seen, for example, that mothers can have a wonderful influence in getting kids out or preventing or deradicalizing, and so we know for example a friend of ours is a hostage negotiator in britain. when there is a muslim who's involved in a hostage situation, the first thing they do is get the mother on the phone. so police in the security service can help that way, in terms of getting the families involved. but we have to be very careful about not treating the families as suspects automatically. just because one member of the family is involved doesn't guarantee that the entire family is radicalized. sometimes they are. and sometimes they're not. >> fascinating. insight there. thank you very much for that appreciate your time. still to come, president obama speaks with the family of the american couple killed in tuesday's attacks. coming up what we've learned about the final moments before

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all right. we are back here in brussels on what has been a very dramatic day in terms of the protests that took place, not just here at the place de la bourse but across the country as the police continued their manhunt for the bombing suspects. we know that the raids took place not just in brussels, but elsewhere as experts continued to develop complex profiles of how these young people are turning to ruthless killers. we've been following this story for some time by looking at members of the community who have been radicalized, as well. speaking to some in the community as what they can do to try to prevent that radicalization from happening. we're joined by nbc's keir simmons. he has a personal story of one of them. what did you learn about this? >> ayman, well i learned, i guess, most of all, is the complexity of what really happened. i think that maybe the first thing to say is what we're talking about is a very small

group of young people. from even from this city even from the district where many of them come from. most do not turn to jihadism or certainly not to isis plainly. but a number of factors are talked about. there is poverty. there is a disillusionment. a lack of understanding of where their life is going. and also a kind of a snowball effect, if you like, some join, go to syria, perhaps earlry on, some years ago when they thought they were going to fight the syrian government and then as friends of friends of friends influence each other and as the conflict changes there, what you wend up with is people on the streets of brussels ending up in syria. olivier holds up a picture of his son. >> that's my son. >> reporter: he was 24 years old. >> he used to break dance on the street, and listen to music. >> reporter: three years ago, olivier's son sean was recruited

to go to syria to help, sean said, to fight against the syrian government. >> they promised them a future there. and they say to them, you can be a hero. you can change the world. >> reporter: he didn't make it home. >> so, my son die in a few months after. >> reporter: and syria itself was dying in the civil war there, isis was born. recruiting more westerners in poor neighborhoods like molenbeek, brussels. those who joined consider it like family, this young man from molenbeek told me, too terrified to be identified. for them it's the only family they have. others who joined had criminal records, like the men who blew themselves up at brussels airport. europe's intelligence agencies now fear hundreds have returned to their european neighborhoods to die launching attacks like brussels and paris. young people here have been brainwashed this youth worker says. isis recruiting the lost and disillusioned. >> it's easy to come and say,

you see, you are not welcome here. come with us. come with us. we will give you a future. we will give you a real value in our islamic state. >> then sending them home, with deadly intentions. >> so it is say complex picture, but in many ways what's happened in communities here has happened for the west as a whole. the picture in syria has changed so much, people here didn't realize, some of them, what their young people were getting into until it was too late. >> and we certainly look at them as terrorists. but you also look at the relatives and you can't help but feel sorry for the families who have their children preyed on by these recruiters and -- >> and that father wanted people to know that in his opinion, his son thought that he was going for a good reason. he wasn't going to join isis. he was going to fight for syria, if you like. all of the parents we speak to express a sense that their children were naive, and thought

they were going to do something good. of course there is also those in criminal backgrounds who knew exactly what they were going to do. >> thank you for that reporting. appreciate it. >> you bet. >> president obama spent part of his easter sunday afternoon talking to the families of justin and stephanie shults. the young couple who died in the brussels terror attacks. the president gave the family his condolences and said the country's prayers are with them. nbc's gabe gutierrez joins me from brussels with more on that phone call and all those developments. gabe? >> hi there, ayman. well president obama did call the family of justin and stephanie shults. all this as a memorial service is now scheduled for tomorrow evening here in brussels, to remember all those that lost their lives during these terrorist attacks. now president obama told the families that they are -- that justin and stephanie shults epitomized all that was good about america. and ayman, theirs ended up being a tragic love story. they met at vanderbilt

university. they were both accountants and moved to brussels in 2014. they were dropping off stephanie's mom at the airport when the blast happened. they were reportedly waving good-bye to her. now the reaction has been pouring in from around the world. justin's brother tweeted that he traveled the world leaving each destination better than when he arrived. and he also sweeted that stephanie was always so happy. i really enjoyed any chance i got to be around here. the world lost two amazing people. it's not fair. justin shults was originally from tennessee. stephanie is -- was from kentucky. again, many people here are mourning their loss here. at the square, the site of a protest earlier today by a far right wing group tonight on this easter sunday it is again a somber memorial. ayman? >> gabe gutierrez live for us at the place de la bourse at that makeshift memorial. thank you very much for that heartbreaking story, gabe.

well, after another quick break, the efforts under way to prevent another attack here in belgium as a new round of police raids leads to a number of arrests across the country. we're back right after this. (pilot chatter) this... is how it begins... with a mighty roar... that tells the world... we're coming for you. for a limited time, great deal on this passat.. wow, it looks really good... volkswagen believes safety is very important... so all eleven models come standard with an intelligent crash response system... hmm. ...seven stability-enhancing systems... hmmm... ...and equipment for two child seats. hmmm... for those who take safety seriously. like we do. the volkswagen safety in numbers event... is happening now! get a $1,250 volkswagen reward card and 0% apr on new 2016 passat models.

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you don't see that every day. introducing wifi pro, wifi that helps grow your business. comcast business. built for business. welcome back, everyone. i'm ayman mohyeldin. we're live from place de la bourse here in brussels where today right wing protesters dressed in black marched into the city center here. hundreds of riot police pushed them back and dispersed them with water cannons. police say about a dozen protesters were arrested. in a new series of raids that took place across the country today, 13 house searches were carried out. nine people were taken in for questioning. five were later released. and today another deadly suicide bombing, this time terrorists struck in lahore, pakistan. police say 63 people, mostly women and children, were killed. and more than 300 were injured in the attack at a children es park on easter sunday. it was crowded with christians celebrating easter.

back home though on the campaign trail, candidates for president are waging a war of words against each other on how to best protect the united states from terror. hillary clinton and donald trump have clashed over whether the u.s. should rethink its involvement in nato. now during a counterterrorism address last week at stanford the former secretary of state called out trump for his opposition against the military alliance. take a listen. >> turning our back on our alliances or turning our alliance into a protection racket would reverse decades of bipartisan american leadership. and send a dangerous signal to friend and foe alike. putin already hopes to divide europe. if mr. trump gets his way, it will be like christmas in the kremlin. >> meanwhile, the front-runner on the republican side, donald trump, is doubling down on his position that nato is obsolete. >> we have the threat of terrorism, and nato doesn't

discuss terrorism. nato's not meant for terrorism. nato doesn't have the right countries in it for terrorism. nato's obsolete. nato is obsolete and extremely expensive to the united states, disproportionately so and we should readjust nato. >> meanwhile, senator ted cruz has a different plan on how to defeat isis. here's his explanation. >> everywhere i go, every leader i meet, they ask about what is happening in america. they cannot believe it. >> that was secretary of state john kerry there on the rhetoric that is being used on the side across the political landscape. let's bring in jonathan alter here in to this discussion to get his take on this. we heard a little bit there from donald trump, hillary clinton, and john kerry saying that this has been somewhat of an embarrassment for the u.s. in terms of talking to those close u.s. allies.

how has the political discourse back home played out worldwide? >> well, it's been really horrible for the image of the united states. you have donald trump depicted as a dangerous clown on the covers of magazines all over the world. you know, when the united states sneezes, the world gets a cold. they are very, very fixated on what's going on inside our politics. because it relates so much to the way things go for them. you know, the dollar is the reserve currency of the world. there are 100 different ways in which everything that we do is important. nato has been the centerpiece of global security since world war ii. the idea of collective security is what came out of world war ii. it's why we haven't had another world war. because of institutions like nato. so for somebody like donald trump, who knows nothing about nato, i'd be surprised if he

even knows what n.a.t.o. stands for, to sort of jump in to this debate, and throw hand grenades around is terribly upsetting for europe at a time of crisis, given terrorism. now trump is right that nato needs to be modernized and brought more in to the fight against terror. that's a legitimate criticism. but that's not what he's saying. what he's saying is, as hillary clinton mentioned, that it's a protection racket. that the united states doesn't get anything out of nato. that doesn't get anything out of our alliances japan and south korea. this is just wrong. we get skrt that has kept the peace since world war ii. and so i think he has a fundamental misunderstanding of what has kept the peace, which is terribly alarming, not just to a lot of people in the united states, but abroad. >> but let me ask you this, and hillary clinton made reference to this about the bipartisan

support that has gone on for decades. how extraordinary are donald trump's comments on nato, especially to establishment republicans? or is there a school of thought within the republican establishment that is looking at nato as obsolete and trying to counter terrorism which has become the main threat to u.s. and western security? >> there's a school of thought i haven't seen it. nobody's ever heard of any of his foreign policy advisers. one of them graduated from college in 2009. you know, you have even worse in some cases advisers to ted cruz. the old establishment are big supporters of nato. they helped build nato. the republican party was an interventionist party until now. they believed in these ideas of collective security. now there were mistakes made by democratic and republican administrations but we've had a rough bipartisan consensus on issues like nato that is now breaking down. and the same way that the

consensus on how to fight terrorism is breaking down. so republicans, including former president bush, believed we did need to have relations with muslim communities in order to protect ourselves. trump and cruz have now thrown that away. so this is why there's panic inside not just the big old bad republican establishment, but the people who have actually done a good job in both parties in the last fives or six decades in preventing another world war and keeping nuclear weapons in check. donald trump says to "the new york times" that he wants, you know, other countries in asia to have nuclear weapons to proliferate in asia, that's not safe for the world. and so there's a lot -- this is not just more, you know, sex talk in a campaign, which has gotten all the publicity. we've had that for a long time in politics. this is going to the very fundamentals of what has kept us safe and this is why people are so afraid of not just donald trump but ted cruz, as well.

>> all right, msnbc jonathan alter. good to have you back again in this discussion. appreciate your insights on that. while the terror attacks here have torn so many families apart they're also bringing many people together for the greater good. next we take you to chicago, where one community is working to turn the tide by spreading a message of acceptance and inclusion for the muslim community. stay with us. sure am. my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your staff to send appointment reminders to your customers... ...and share promotions on social media? you know it! now i'm seeing dollar signs. you should probably get your eyes checked. good one babe. optometry humor. right now get up to $650 in credits to help you switch to at&t. every auto insurance policy s a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪

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this week's attacks in brussels led to fears of a greater backlash against muslims both here and at home. today, as many christians observe easter sunday, there are calls, as well, for greater unity following in the face of terror. nbc's kevin tibbles found that united spirit in one neighborhood in chicago. >> reporter: you can travel to the four corners of the world, or you can come to devon avenue in chicago.

iraqi american grocer mohammed jawad calls it the melting pot. >> russian, romanian, jewish, indian, pakistanian, iraqi, all living together in peace. >> devon bustles with people of many faiths. at the kosher fish shop, arturo has served his community for 30 years. >> everybody has respect to each other. >> reporter: his niece kelly is also behind the counter. >> diversity is always good. to grow up with other cultures, you grow up open minded. >> reporter: here, they mourn this week's senseless killings. and stand with others against terror. hundreds responded to calls for heightened surveillance of muslims this week, by tweeting under the #mymuslimneighborhood. we have dinner with your muslim neighbor. and i send everyone home with extra desserts. i live near arlington cemetery. these heroes who gave their lives for our country are my neighbors. i've always wanted to have a

neighbor just like you. 22-year-old sarah also tweeted about her mosque hosting interfaith evenings. >> i'm trying to show that my muslim voice and my american voice do not contradict each other. that here in america, i can, you know, practice my emergency at the same time contribute and make america greater. >> the world is at a crossroads with terror. but on devon avenue -- >> we all get along together. and we love this country. that's why we're here. >> they are one community. kevin tibbles, nbc news, chicago. i stand here in brussels, with memorials to those who perished in tuesday's attacks behind me. but, it is important that we remember those throughout the world who have lost their lives at the hands of terrorists in the past days and weeks. just a few hours ago, 63 adults and children perished while playing and enjoying their sunday in a park in lahore, pakistan. in nigeria two female suicide

bombers walked into a mosque and detonated their explosives killing people while they were praying. yesterday in iraq isis detonated a suicide bomb at an amateur soccer game. children were in that stadium watching their friends and family play during that match. backlash for these terror attacks have been felt by muslims globally. but the power of social media can sway the global conscience. this photo tweeted by the afp went viral showing that kindness and understanding even exists in the darkest of places, like the slums of a syrian refugee camp. belgians refuse to vilify their neighbors and friends, understanding that our shared global humanity can overcome terror. and showing support for other countries brought to their knees by the threat of isis, while these attacks may have not received the same global media attention or outrage, they are just as equally devastating to the victims and communities that have suffered them, and they equally deserve our global condemnation. as i say good-bye on this easter sunday, let us remember what pope francis said earlier in his easter blessing, may efforts be

made everywhere to promote the culture of counterjustice and reciprocal respect. which alone can guarantee the spiritual and material welfare of all people. you're looking at the live pictures of the memorial that has been set up here. the city of brussels that has now become the capital of europe. thank you very much for joining us. good night and happy easter. technology. technology... say, have you seen all the amazing technology in geico's mobile app? mobile app? look.

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