none of this works. come on in. it's my decision to make beauty last. fix. roc retinol started visiblreducing my fine lines and wrinkles in one week. and the longer i use it thbetter it works. retinol correxion from roc. methods, not miracles. >> what a president hillary clinton deal with the police reform? >> his perspective is unique. now you see, this little bird doesn't know it -- [ cheers and applause ]

[ cheers and applause ] >> that was an incredible moment. a bird paying bernie sanders a visit during his rally in portland, oregon, on friday, seemingly unphased by the 11,000-person crowd the senator was addressing. they were going crazy. >> that was inzblebl sam thinks it was mechanical. >> how did hillary clinton get a listening device implanted on that bird? >> the clintons will do anything! >> and then guide it straight on to bernie, right? >> where does that happen? good morning, it's monday -- >> mika saw that and was having great religious significant. >> i thought it was sweet. and his smile. with us on set, white house correspondent for the

sufficientisufficient i -- huffington post, sam stein. ron fournier from the "national journal"ist. al hunt, msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt in washington and in new york managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin. >> mark, before we get into the details, let's talk about bernie sanders big, big week end. >> and the bird. >> bird notwithstanding. a very big weekend at bernie's. >> birds, big crowds and three big victories in hawaii, washington, alaska. it sets up a week from tomorrow wisconsin. he's got to go step by step. wisconsin next votes on its own and then two weeks after that new york. if he can keep the winning streak alive through new york, beat her in new york he's still an underdog but he will have momentum heading into the big following contest in the northeast. so he's got to go step by step with wisconsin next. but he smashed her in three western states and picks up more

momentum which is what he needs now as much as he needs delegates. >> huge, huge margins. >> senator sanders won the alaska, hawaii and washington caucuses in landslides on saturday. his margin of victory in each state was 40 points or higher. sanders picked up 55 delegates to clintons 20 but still trails her by 675 delegates overall. as the results were still coming in on saturday, sanders was in wisconsin ahead of that state's primary on april 5. look at this crowd. at a rally in madison, he struck a defiant tone in front of more than 8,000 people. >> we are making significant inroads in secretary clinton's lead and we have -- [ cheers and applause ] and we have with your support coming here in wisconsin we have a path toward victory.

[ cheers and applause ] >> wow. >> al, bernie sanders is supposedly knocked down in the march 15 contest, came roaring back with massive victories out west. you take away the super delegates, which, of course, you don't do and this is a close race. but the superdoeelegates can mo around. we have a story about the fbi investigation moving more aggressively. talk about bernie sanders, what he accomplished and whether he has reason to believe things may fall his way. >> lightning could strike. they have accomplished everything they said they were going to accomplish. i talked to him the night of march 15, a gloomy night. he said "the next three weeks will be great for us. we'll win a bunch of caucuses and primaries then we go to wisconsin." i think wisconsin is a real showdown. bernie sanders with that group of young people and progressives. if he can beat her in a showdown in her home state it changes the

dynamics. a decided underdog, but bernie sanders is not going away. >> no, he's not. and also i just keep wondering if while everyone's talking about how trump was underestimated and the media missed that, i wonder if we keep missing this story. how do you cast away those crowds, kasie? >> you can't. and i've covered sanders day to day now for several months and every single one of those events is the same. everywhere he goes they are drawing huge crowds. unlike campaigns who are worried about booking a room that will be too big for the people that show up, their problem is finding a venue big enough when you have a rally -- >> let me ask you this. would hillary clinton -- i'm saying this just wondering. >> i can answer no. hillary can't get the crowds. >> could she ever get the crowd? >> she can't get the crowd and she can't get that excitement. but she is going to get an interview coming up, it seems. >> well, okay. we'll go to that which is another major headline.

the "los angeles times" reports the investigation into hillary clinton's e-mail server is about to enter a new phase. the paper cites two forces familiar with the probe who say federal prosecutors have begun to step up interviews with long time clinton aides. meanwhile, a lengthy sunday cover story in the "washington post" describes how the clinton e-mail scandal took root writing in part that clinton aides and senior officials "paid insufficient attention to laws and regulations governing the handling of classified material and the preservation of government records." they also neglected to repeated warnings about the security of her blackberry. while clinton and her closest aids took obvious security risks in using the server. that was the one in hers now chappaqua. early on there were concerns about clinton using a blackberry in the so-called mahogany row era of the state department

because of previous espionage attempts. according to the "post," when a stop state department official told clinton "any unclassified blackberry is highly vulnerable in any setting to remotely and covertly monitoring conversations, retrieving e-mails and exploiting calendars." nine days later, clinton told the official that she had read his memo and gets it. according to an e-mail sent by a senior diplomatic security official. but according to the paper, clinton kept using her private blackberry and the basement server. vice news notes that more than 1800 e-mails were withheld or heavily redacted under exemptions to the freedom of information act, including 22 that were not released because they were deemed top secret and would cause "exceptionally grave damage to national security if disclosed." >> ron foreignier, th ifourniere here. hillary clinton and her team have been saying all along we didn't send or receive any classified information.

the state department says 1800 e-mails but 22 e-mails were deemed top secret and would cause "exceptionally grave damage to national security if disclosed." i've been hearing some commentators say this is much ado about nothing and that the fbi is just checking the systems out for their own exercise. they're moving into a phase where they're granting immunity, including one news report says the secretary herself. this seems to be expanding far beyond a procedural investigation. >> well, it has been beyond a procedural investigation from the beginning. >> can i ask why that hasn't been reported? because you ask reporters behind the scenes they'll tell you they know there are 150 or so fbi investigators on the scene. that never makes it into these stories. >> because we let ourselves get tied up in the knots with the spin from both sides. it's true that we don't have a target in this investigation.

we don't have a legal target in this investigation. any implication, any suggestion that hillary clinton has been or is a target would be incorrect. but that doesn't mean this isn't a criminal investigation. the fbi is looking into the possibility that crimes were violated. i think look what we have here is what is baked in the cake, joe, is that we know hillary clinton has not been honest about this and we show -- it's shown in the polls that most americans think they can't trust her. we know she showed a disregard for the freedom of information act, a total disregard for the freedom of information act for the whole idea of legislative oversight and the value of a historical record. that's baked in the cake. now, i think what will happen if these stories are correct she's likely to be interviewed, that's going to bring that back up to the surface but the only question that changes the game is if we have criminal charges. i don't know that will happen. it may not happen. >> and intel officials have been saying to me and have been angry for some time not so much about

foia, they've been talking about the reckless disregard for the classified information and that there's so many classified documents that both came and went and, you know, when they talk about it wasn't marked on there, that's just a distinction without a difference. >> right. so politically that plays into the this whole question that we really can't trust her. that she's been saying things like "well, they weren't marked classified" when we know and voters understand that doesn't matter. legally, though, there's a big bar you have to get over to prosecute anybody for these crimes much less somebody who's running for president and as critical as i've been of hillary clinton -- and i am very critical of hillary clinton -- i understand when somebody is running for president there is a higher bar you have to get over because we can't have a system in which we're constantly charging people who are running for president ofwith the crime. >> the bar is reckless use of classified information and i will tell you if an fbi agent took a classified document out and went and just left it in a

coffee shop and then went back, you know, their career would be over. i can tell you also that if i had gone to an intel briefing and they had told me what happened in whatever program and then i went back to my office and i sent an e-mail as a congressman out about the information that i learned in that intel briefing, they would be in my office in three hours and would say "congressman, you need to get an attorney because that's illegal." and the scale of this is so remarkable. i don't know how james comey -- i do not know how james comey doesn't do something definitive, election year or not. >> look, you're an attorney, i'm not. politically there's severe questions about her judgment that voters have to look into it. legally i can't sit here and say she has definitely violated the law and i do know there is a -- >> i'm not saying that, either. >> there is a higher bar you have to get over before you

prosecute someone running for president. that's just a fact. >> in what statute is that? >> section b. [ laughter ] >> there are a lot of people that would say we're all equal under the law. >> this is the thing, though. there is -- it's not codified, right, but we all recognize. this is the frustration for clinton critics which is that had she been some sort of underling at the state department, certainly there would have been different standards applied to her as opposed to her being the secretary of state. >> she were an underling she would already have charged against her. >> now, the clinton people are turning around and saying listen, there's been reports that show colin powell did almost identically the same thing which is affording information later deemed classified on his private e-mail account there was not an uproar about him. >> it is completely different. >> that was before the

regulations. >> the standard is you're leaving classified information around. >> which is why they put the regulations in place. >> but this is why democrats are privately still really nervous and part of why i think bernie sanders' campaign to a certain extent -- nobody wants to say out loud, hey, now we have somebody strong enough to step up into those shoes as our nominee if, in fact, this scandal blows up in a way that as you were saying with criminal charges. nobody wants to say that out loud but there are a lot of democrats who are nervous. >> it invites bernie to stay in. >> mark halperin, i was going ask you, publicly that's also a calculation that sanders supporters and democratic fund-raisers are concerned about, what happens as this investigation continues to grow 175 fbi agents, interviews

coming up and more damning details coming up behind the week. what are you hearing behind the democratic leadership. >> you don't know. the clinton aides named in the "los angeles times" story to be interviewed, these are people who know a lot about hillary clinton, know about her e-mail practices and you don't know what happens when they get called in to be interviewed. if you look at the calendar and you look at how long it will be where bernie sanders will be in the race through june in california, there's the prospect of, for him, the alignment of political victories and nervousness within the democratic party of nominating someone who would be potentially under criminal investigation. potentially. and it is obvious for him if he wants to be the democratic nominee to be as strong as possible. i think the days are over when people think that if she does run into legal trouble that someone could take this nomination away from bernie sanders and that argument only grows stronger the more delegates he wins if it comes to the point where there is more nervousness. because there's clearly nervousness now.

democrats got over -- they were so distracted by her fight with bernie sanders, they got over focusing and obsessing on the investigation but these two stories will bring that back to the fore and when this interview takes place, she will be under pressure to explain. because whether she broke the law or not, whether a democratic justice department indicts her or not or makes her a target or not, it's clear she was cavalier about this and people are uncomfortable with what she did. a lot of other things to cover this morning. donald trump saying the gop is treating him unfairly following a report in the "wall street journal" that ted cruz might come out ahead in delegates in louisiana after the state convention, trump tweeted yesterday -- "just to show you how unfair republican primary politics can be, i won the state of louisiana and get less delegates than cruz. lawsuit coming." meanwhile, there were more signs over the weekend that ted cruz and john kasich may be moving away from their pledge to

support the gop nominee in the general election whoever it is. yesterday ted cruz highlighted donald trump's donations to democrats writing that trump is no republican and he's certainly no conservative. some point out that declaring trump not a republican gives cruz leeway not to support anymore trump wins the nomination. the tweet follows cruz evading the question on friday. >> donald is fond of giving people nicknames. with this pattern, he should not be surprised to see people calling him "sleazy donald." >> yes or no, will you vote for him if he's the nominee? >> i will say this, i don't make a habit out of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my family. and donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee. >> you still are committed to supporting donald trump if he's the nominee? >> we're going to look at it every single day and we'll see what happens. we've got a long way to go and i

don't want to project he's going to be the nominee. i don't think he will be and if he is, i'll review it everyday. >> i was going to say, it sounds like it's more hesitance everyday. >> i said what i said, chuck, and i'm done talking about this subject. [ laughter ] >> why not just say "no, i don't think i will." >> me car, i haimika, i have a . when ted cruz practices every word he says, do you think he has one mirror or is it a three-way thing? because last week he turned and pointed -- >> i think he makes a circle and he says "children, when i finish speaking, applaud." and he feels it and then he learns -- oh, my god, is it just me? >> no, it's not you. >> david axelrod tweeted last week said "how could it be that even when he's defending the honor of his wife it seems so staged." he was saying -- and it was -- and then he turned and pointed his fingers.

it was -- >> i'm sorry. >> it was bad, bad acting. i just -- >> we are right now criticizing and ridiculing the presentation of a male candidate. >> that's just very sexist of you, mika. very sexist of you. >> i know. >> so a lot to get through here. al hunt, the anger and rage against donald trump, especially from the right, grows by the day. >> it's blinding. >> and if you even follow the top influencers on twitter and what they're saying, it is blind i ing. and it gets worse by the day. >> it does. so much so that it's really -- sometimes it seems impossible to have a discussion about where this guy sits in the process. >> well, and some of them will start to get a little bit soft and then he'll do something and they get hard again. it's amazing, he reels them back

in. and we have to remember, joe, there's at least three different elements here and some overlap. there are those who think he'd be a political disaster, take the republican party down with him. those conservatives who say he's an ideological disaster and there's the third group that says he's just not somebody who could be president. there's an overlap. but the three of them, i think those three groups are as intense today as two weeks ago. >> mark halperin, the criticism from the right seems to be hardening. also the news reporting. you commented on the news reporting over the weekend. it seems things are getting rougher by the day for trump, not better, as he moves towards the possible nomination. >> people are not going to just let him have the nomination. they're gaming the system. they're trying to stop him any way they can. just as wisconsin is key for the democrats, it's very key for the republicans. it's the first state kasich, and cruz are trying to win.

if he can win wisconsin, he's on a path to nomination. if he loses it, things get interesting there as they would if sanders is able to win wisconsin. still ahead on "morning joe," new york police commissioner bill bratton, going toe to toe with ted cruz over the proposal to monitor muslim neighborhoods. plus, we'll bring in the names david sanger whose interview with donald trump is making major waves. what the republican front-runner told the "new york times" about his plans for foreign policy. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. wrely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business.

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. what did you learn in brussels, what happened? >> i received a call in the morning and then i turned on the television. >> like 5:00 a.m.? >> pretty early. >> your friend knows to call you that early. >> they know i'm not a big sleeper. >> you were scheduled to do morning show interviews by phone. did you consult anybody about what to say? >> no, i don't have to consult anybody. look i i say it from my heart and my brain. not just heart. heart and brain. that's what i do. >> so that was a scene from the latest episode of show time's "the circus." donald trump's foreign policy

views are coming under new juteny after the republican front-runner spent 100 minutes talking to the "new york times" about the issues on friday. trump summed up his world view by saying: trump said he's willing to withdraw u.s. forces from south korea and japan unless they increase payments for protection. leading to the "new york post" to label him "leader of the fee world." this comes just days after trump seemingly dodged questions from the "washington post's" editorial board about the specifics behind his plan to quickly defeat isis.

>> at that point, trump's campaign manager said they had five minutes left and the subject was never returned to. nbc's andrea mitchell shared her analysis of trump's foreign policy interviews yesterday on "meet the press." >> he would cancel defense treaties with japan and south korea against north korea. he doesn't mind -- he would be okay if japan and south korea go nuclear? american policy for decades since world war ii has been trying to keep nukes out of that

arena. he would stop importing oil from saudi arabia if they don't pay more for their defense. we need oil. we are not energy independent. we rely on oil still for our daily needs. he is completely all over the lot. on iran he believes -- he complained iran isn't buying our planes, it had to be pointed out that iran is still under sanctions and cannot buy american planes. he thinks north korea and iran are the biggest trading partners when north korea's biggest trading parter? china. he is completely uneducated about any part of the world. >> and you know what, ron fournier? while she was ticking off in anger several of those points you were saying everybody in your hometown in mccomb county was going yup. and i think everyone in northwest florida is going yup, the japanese who we've cared re -- carried for 50, 60 years, they keep getting a free ride. germans, the rest of the world,

the saudis who we send our young women to fight and die for and defend their oil over the past 20 years get a free ride. i understand it's more intricate than that but andrea didn't realize those things she was ticking off a lot of americans were saying we're tired of the free ride. and i know that because in speeches that we give, we always hear that. how much longer are we going to have to carry the world on our shoulders. >> i'm sure andrea understands what's going on out there. she's right, donald trump is completely uneducated on these issues and he doesn't understand the post-war new order -- post world war ii order in the world. the problem is, he also reflects the fact that most americans don't trust -- many americans don't trust the post-world war ii order. they don't trust elites. they don't trust the political establishment. they don't trust how we've been doing things so donald trump, you can make a good argument he's unfit for the presidency but he's tapping into this anger and frustration you're talking about. >> mika, we talked about this

other the weekend. i am stunned everyday by people that i learn are going to vote for donald trump who i would have never predicted in a million years were going to vote for donald trump. i just -- i mean, it's a lot of people. and a lot of them i go "why? you're an evangelical, you go to church five days a week, you have always voted for the most socially conservative. why?" it always comes back to "you know what? we have been let down by every politician out there, he's run things for 30 years". >> he gets us. >> i'm not going to get into the debate but he gets us. he may not be one of us but he's certainly not one of them. >> i think they think he's one of us. let's bring in one of the journalists who interviewed trump on foreign policy, chief washington correspondent for the "new york times," david sanger. >> david, did donald trump say you were a good-looking person? >> we were on the phone so -- >> oh!

>> what can i tell you, joe? >> so he did -- he talked about america first but i thought it was very interest iing i saw in the subhead of an article ", my first, everybody else pays." talk about donald trump's world view in the "times." >> the america first gnarl the times, i asked him if it would be a fair summation of his views that he was america first? and he leapt on that. but the everyone else pays is the key part of this, joe, because what it essentially means is he is reoriented the nature of american alliances if he gets into office and for 70 years that's been based on the theory that it's in our interest to keep sea lines open, to have forward-deployed troop, to keep the peace, to be able to gather intelligence by having troops out and intelligence operations

out around the world and he's basically saying no, it's benefitting everybody else, they're going to have to go pay for it. it turns the u.s. foreign policy into a much more mercenary approach. >> al hunt? >> i think you are absolutely right he's tapping into something but i think he is courting much more danger. i think what you're seeing in the surveys is they're going to say wait a minute, this man is unfit to be president. he has negatives, joe, and the bloomberg poll and the "wall street journal"/nbc poll like we have never seen in american history. >> you know who comes in second? hillary clinton, 10 points behind. >> no, 15 points behind and a very unfavorable 20 points behind. it's striking. in our poll we've never seen anyone close to that. peter hart says the only person he's ever mean? 20 years of polling is yasser arafat. so you're right, he appeals to a segment but i think those

negatives are so high in that sense and in david's interview i think that probably come mounds that that this man simply doesn't know -- >> arafat got 240 electoral college votes. >> and he was strong in the industrial midwest, too. [ laughter ] >> sam, following up on that, mark halperin has the next question for david but, sam, the last poll i saw trump had disapproval ratings in the high 60s, hillary was in the high 50s. hillary's been in public office for 30 years now, trump for six months. it's easier to move the person's negatives in six months as we saw in the republican primary early on then it is to move the other. i'm not saying donald trump can catch up but people that are saying trump has high disapproval ratings and can't win is -- they're whistling past the graveyard in march. >> he'll have to do quite the pivot and apologize to many of the demographic groups that feel deeply offended by what's happened in the course of the

primary. is it doable? i don't know. maybe. but i was struck by this interview that david did and the "washington post" did not just because he's so unkconventional but how unnuanced it seemed on occasion and maybe david can pick this up. david, is there one place in any part of the world where donald trump sees virtue in soft power? i.e., diplomacy or humanitarian or intelligence zplcollection? is there one place? that surprised you? >> no, we didn't hear a lot about that. i asked him why the advisors he named so far have been heavily skewed toward former general, former admirals, military people who i said to him might turn to a military solution first to a problem instead of a diplomatic one or an economic one.

and he said well, that's because military is important to make militaries strong. what i think was absent from this conversation -- and maybe he'll gain it later on because i have to say it was absent from my early interviews with george w. bush before he took office in -- this was now some number of years ago, eight years ago -- is that he had not yet thought to himself about the hierarchy of interests that the united states had. he said defending the homeland first but he could don't any beyond that. and then once you have your hierarchy of interests together then you think what are my tools? diplomatic or soft power or economic? and the only area where he said military would come last was the use of nuclear weapons. he had not really thought through what bob gates used to call the "and then what" question. so you let japan get a nuclear weapon.

what kind of arms race does that then start in east asia? you ask the saudis to pay for all of the american operations in the middle east. where else might the saudis take their alliances? so he hadn't done the second order questions and that's, i think, worth further exploration with it. >> and mark halperin, sam stein was talking about how unnuanced trump is in his answers and i remember seeing yesterday the interview with secretary of state john kerry about the brussels situation and the problems in europe and how unprepared in some ways on an intelligence level they are and yet kerry was so nuanced in his answers and so careful and even somewhat supportive in light of what they are about to do in terms of meetings there. i just wonder how trump would have been in that interview. i think he would have said everything. they're completely unprepared, the borders are porous, it's the wild west and they're going to have more problems. and then i wonder what would be

wrong with that. >> and who would relate. which of those politicians would america relate to. would they relate to a guy who says the world is on fire, the borders are porous, the intel agencies are horrible and we have to beat isis versus what president obama and john kerry did over this past week. i'm passing no judgment, this is political analysis and it's pretty simple and straightforward. >> i noted over the weekend -- >> joe, when you think about kerry's answer and all that, you have to think about hillary clinton's answers and they are very nuanced. she's spent four years as secretary of state. but when you nuance answers on foreign policy -- and i spend my life traveling around with john kerry and others who do this -- they come across as describing all the counterinterests that keep you from doing what you want to go do and i think the political appeal that donald

trump is tapping into is that he basically says forget about this we're just going do what america wants to do. and you can imagine why there is an appeal to that around the country from people who've not had to go deal there n the real world of the negotiation. >> mark halperin. >> just say two things about what trump said about foreign policy in the last week. first of all, on nato, one of his more controversial positions, i noticed over the weekend john kasich said the same thing, we need to relook at the role of nato. trump's positions on a lot of these issues i think play to where some of the public is -- and al is right about his unfavorables with a lot of the public. people don't think what's going on overseas with america's role in the world is working. they want fundamental change, a lot of americans do, and trump is promising that. the other thing is he's appealing to what david's colleague tom freedman has talked about, which is reoriented america's role in the world more towards economics and less towards militar power and trump when he talks about trade and immigration and talks about the u.s. bearing less of the

burden for defense around the world is tapping into a fair amount of belief that, again, we need a new world order with the u.s. playing a different role. >> all right, david sanger, thank you so much for being with us. please come back any time. the must-read opinion pages are straight ahead on "morning joe." when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helpg you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a.

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up next, when the political discourse takes a turn towards the tabloids, reporters are faced with a dilemma. should they ignore the inflammatory rhetoric? >> yes! >> if it's a tweet you can ignore a tweet. >> yes. >> can you get over yourself? the twaup disse"washington post next to explain. hi! every mom is a coach... an artist... sometimes even a zoologist. every mom is a working mom... and it's working moms everywhere who inspired us to work harder. so we made our banquet meals even better. with mashed potatoes now made with real cream and chicken strips with 100% natural chicken breast. so now, there's more to love with banquet. now serving... a better banquet. i think the first step in being able to create a helpful solution is just to be able to recognize problems in the world around you. don't you dare change the rules. don't you dare play with your food.

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questions and make them hard. so we said, bob, since donald will be on in 30 minutes, why don't you try. here's how it went. >> somebody may have a good idea but how are they going to do it and -- can you give us some idea. >> sure, okay. look, first of all, mexico's not going to build it, we are going to build it. >> how are you going to get them to pay for it. >> the reason they're going to pay and the way they're going to pay, bob, is this. we have a trade deficit now with mexico of $58 billion a year. >> but they're a sovereign nation. >> but when you're losing $58 billion a year on trade, in addition to that, we give subsidies to mexico. believe me, i have all the cards. >> how do you get a sovereign nation that says they don't want to pay to pay? >> very simple. there are five different ways you can do it. you can do it through not giving them the subsidy we pay them. >> would you be willing to go to

war to make sure we get the money to pay for this wall? >> trust me, bob, when i rejuvenate our military, mexico's not going to be playing with us with war. >> so, bob woodward, you asked the question you wanted to ask, you had several follow-ups. are you satisfied that you got the answer that you wanted? >> no, of course. he has not given an answer. >> so there you have it. so we have the great bob woodward follow up with four questions. i think it was four, five. >> it was like 20 minutes and he got nothing. joining us now politics -- >> sorry, it was five question, alex told us. >> media reporter for the fix at the "washington post," column -- callum borgers. he's been dissecting the media's relationship with the front-runners every step of the way. it's tomly kated? >> i remember that exchange well. i was going to write about it. it was the same thing.

i don't know about anybody else but at the "washington post" when you get hate mail, it invariably invokes that man "why can't you be like bob woodward? remember when the washington post was a real newspaper?" and it's about the supposed inability to ask tough questions. >> gene robinson says the same thing. why don't you ask the questions? we do. then why the do you even have him on when the guy has been the front-runner in every poll for 300 days. >> but that's the point. even bob woodward has a hard time getting answers out of this guy. so you go do your job, go through the process but at some point the politicians set the agenda in the campaign and that was so dispiriting about last week from a media perspective. i'm watching and seeing wednesday afternoon the "national enquirer" goes up with this tabloid rumor. >> ted cruz. >> and the mainstream press ignores it for the most part.

you don't see it on the air on wednesday, you don't see it on thursday. and then all of a sudden on friday a radio host from boston, who's a trump supporter, gets on cnn and on live tv brings it up out of the blue and accuses the woman sitting right there, amanda carpenter, and suddenly it's blown up and you can't ignore it anymore because it just happened on live tv. that's what it feels like in the media. that this criminontrol has been stolen away. it's unbelievable to watch. >> maybe the media should get over the fact that they should haven't that control. they're just supposed to cover the story. >> but the bigger question is -- and you can't ignore it. people chose not to ignore it. the underlying question, though, in your column is -- the point of the column is the media did not create donald trump. the people that have been going out to his rallies from day one created donald trump. >> yeah, i've never bought into

that idea entirely. i think the media has some ability to set the agenda. they've covered donald trump extensively but i think that from -- the biggest thing is that the voters still decide these elections which sounds so overly simplistic but the press is out there and as you said they ask tough questions and they report on, well, donald trump says such and such and that's untrue or this was misleading or look at this offensive thing that he said. and the voters consume that information and still decide despite that or perhaps because of that i like the guy and i'm going to vote for the guy. >> and mark halperin, going back to the summer, we saw a a familiar trend. donald trump says something outrageous about john mccain on a saturday. the "new york times" blows out pieces about how his campaign is over on sunday. everybody talks about it on the sunday talk shows, it takes it into the next week and it happened time and time again. an outrageous statement, the press feels compelled to respond, predict his imminent demise and write stories and how the imminent demise never comes.

that cycle has repeated itself about a dozen times and we are in the latest and greatest phase of that, donald trump has been elected, he's an abhorrent human being, he can never win. and the cycle just keeps repeating itself. >> and in that same time frame he did a "washington post" editorial board largely on foreign policy, john heilemann and i did a 25-minute interview with him on foreign policy, he subjected himself to 100 minutes with david sanger on foreign policy and the voters can react ot that and decide that he's not up to the job or decide otherwise but i agree with you, joe. people say there's callum said there's no choice but to cover it. i don't think that's true. i think we can cover what we think is important and if you want to cover substance you can cover substance and i think we can be in control. i agree with mika, we should haven't a monopoly on control of the dialogue, we should be covering what's happening. >> i'm old enough to remember when the media especially -- i was with the associated press in the '90s and early 2000s.

we were the gatekeepers. if we decided not to publish something, you didn't hear about it. media has been democratized and that may be a good thing. but we have to understand, though, there isn't a media. the media isn't a monolith. but our job isn't just to report the news. for one thing, because of new technology, the public can see the news. they can download the video, they can literally see what is happening in front of themselves. our job in these times when our institutions are collapsing, when government is failing is even more important to hold our leaders accountable as bob woodward was saying as you do everyday. hold them accountable and take everything that happens in a campaign and not just discuss and write about how this is going to affect the horse race and how this will affect whether someone wins or loses but what does this say about how he or she would lead? and that job is more important than it ever was. >> so the point we're asking here, though, let me can ask you. you've been a harsh trick i can

-- critic of donald trump. do you think the media have created donald trump do. you think the people in mccomb county, michigan, like him because of what they hear on cbs news? >> no, what created donald trump is three or four decades of economic decline, institutional decline of both parties, especially republican party turning its back on these people. the media has enabled donald trump. i think these criticisms -- you heard these before the change in media, you know, last century, they were true then, that we tend to have a bias not so much left right, although that is there as well, but a big bias is for conflict. so we love covering the horse race. we love saying this happened today. what we need to do is say this happened today and this is what it tells us about next january. >> he's winning. callum i think the question is for -- at least shows like this one, is there anything we've done with donald trump that we would don't with hillary clinton or any other front running

candidate. >> or that we did with mike huckabee in 2008 when we had him on 87 times in a week? >> lately i don't think so. i think there's a more fair critique of the press maybe early in the trump campaign because people didn't take him very seriously at the outset. so i think there was a sideshow element to it and just -- without delving deeply into his policy proposals and what they would mean for the country. >> because they were too busy laughing hysterically. they could barely speak. >> but wasn't there a night where hillary and trump spoke after a set of primaries side by side -- i might be misremembering it -- all the networks went to trump and had to replay hillary clinton's speech? >> that's because donald trump's speech went first and they didn't break in -- >> we have to admit there's a corporate element. my company loves the advertisers that donald trump brings us and our networks love the ratings that donald trump brings us. that's part of it. >> well, not here. we'll tell you the math doesn't work for us. >> i'm talking generally in the media.

>> as i was saying before though -- and i'll get you the numbers because it's fascinating -- after july and august other candidates outrated donald trump. >> they just don't come on as much. >> chris christie outrated, hillary outrated. all these other candidates outrated. >> trump is accessible and that's worked to his benefit. >> he is accessible and it's fascinating. we have said time and time again if you're a candidate running for president of the united states and you want to call in one morning and can't make it to the studio we'll take your call. the offer's been out there a million times and guess what? only lindsey graham has ever taken us up on that. >> callum borches, thank you so much. you need to come back. >> hillary never took us up on it, bernie never took us up on it. >> are you running for? >> can donald trump and paul ryan exist in the same republican party? >> probably. >> the "washington post" dan balz tackles that question just ahead on "morning joe." trees? eese.

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i would hope very much as we go into new york state, secretary clinton's home state, that we will have a debate, new york city, upstate, wherever, on the important issues. >> are you worried she won't debate you anymore? >> yeah, i have a little bit of concern about that but i certainly would like to see a debate in new york state. >> very interesting. bernie sanders, mika, having a huge, massive weekend this weekend. >> at bernies. >> and we were just talking about the fund-raising difference between the two. there was an article in the "post" that you were reading. >> this is on april 15, apparently there's a fund-raiser at george clooney's house and

people get to pay $350,000 in personal or bundle donation to get a chance to go to that fund-raiser for hillary clinton? >> and you were saying, mika, why does she do it? >> she doesn't need the money, does she. >> yes, she needs the money. and rick we're back to introduce you but we'll -- >> go ahead. >> this has been a foreshad foreshadowing. how incredible. a traditional candidate has all the scenery behind her, has to to raise money like politicians have had to do and yet bernie sanders, what kind of month did he have in member? >> february, $43 million? hillary raised $30 million, but $43 million, mostly low donors. >> $27. >> bernie can go back to those. bernie sanders has a fund-raiser, he coughs and he says "give me money" and they just -- >> and they do. >> and send it in. >> he doesn't have to spend a

single minute going to fund-raisers. you cover a campaign, they go behind closed door -- i covered mitt romney, they spent half the time sitting outside a fancy rich person's house, guest houses of the rich people of america, beautiful, we got to see a lot of them with mitt romney. i have not covered a single candidate -- you say to his aides is this usually takes up half the time. >> do we all agree money buys access. to the clinton foundation. who does bernie sanders took place? >> a bird. that's about it. and ron fournier, you're talking about how donald trump and bernie sanders may not win.

what is the motion powerful interest he has? sort through everything, sort through the socialism and the sexism and the other "isms" and what you have are two guys that can go in front of a crowd and -- >> they can change the way you spend money. you don't have donald trump spending hardly anything on advertisings. bernie sanders is doing it differently, too. they're changing the way we do politics and this isn't the first time we've seen it. howard dean raised money much the same way that bernie sanders is. but here's what happened. when howard dean loses, the establishment says "somebody like him can never win" and the status quo prevails. i say as much as donald trump squar scares me as a potential president, what scares me more are the elites saying "status quo prevails." >> casey and al, what is it that people when they send money

toward bernie sanders, what are they supporting? and what's the story we're missing here? i feel like everyday we are missing the bernie sanders story. >> i spent the weekend there's an island outside washington state that's the highest per p capita donation to bernie sanders. it's basically what you would expect. it's a crunchy place. they said all their friends donated to bernie sanders, it's something that for many of them it's the first time they've been engaged and they all say this is a chance for me to buy into a process that i feel is broken. that i feel cut out of. that i feel like i don't have the chance to influence. and if you listen to donald trump and bernie sanders, that is resonating with these voters and participants in the political process. >> be part of a cause bigger than yourself. >> i think kasie has nailed it perfectly. these people think the system isn't working well. they're not revolutionaries,

they're not going to man the barricade but they don't like foreign interventions, they don't think the recovery has been fair, they tend to be younger people and bernie is a cause. i'm not sure how many of them think bernie will be president but they really like the idea of what bernie is doing and two million people, that's an extraordinary number. >> it is. mika, what bernie sanders did this weekend is roll up some massive victories on the roast. >> here's the "wall street journal" "bernie sanders gets no respect." just listen to this. bernie sanders won three western democratic caucuses by landslides on saturday.

>> ily lwill say, he was being asked on the sunday talk shows "are you going to support hillary when you lose?" i don't get that. >> in every head to head that i have seen, bernie runs better against trump, against cruz, against john kasich than hillary clinton does. not only nationally but in states like north carolina. >> he runs better state by state as rick just said, he was winning by 50 and 60 point this is past weekend. he's ahead in a national poll against hillary clinton. >> so is he going to support hillary clinton when he loses? how stupid. >> and that's the thing -- the democratic party -- the republican party wishes they rigged the process as well as the democratic party did right now because they could rig it against trump but the democratic party rigs their process so these superdelegates which, by the way, can move any direction they want, but the superdelegates actually skew the

process and the reporting so badly that it -- the voters actually don't the say when it comes to -- >> this is a coronation every step of the way, you have to dnc with the debates, let's not start about how much they shot themselves in the foot in the debate process. you had the accomplishment coronating her, you had democratic women on capitol hill falling in line like a clique, i'm sorry, without asking for anything retuin return except f elizabeth warren. bernie sanders is being asked of everything and he's delivering and we keep asking him "when you lose, are you going to support hillary"? >> it's an outrageous question, when are you going to drop out. >> well, these super delegates. when you get into the margin, there's 700 of them, 500 are decided, 95% are with clinton and if it gets into a margin where bernie can keep picking off delegates, we'll have a case where super delegates may make the difference in the democratic election. so i hear criticism from the

left that says, you know, republicans want voter i.d. and voter suppression. well, who needs primaries when you have super delegates? >> let me just a little bit of balance here in a sense that she has won more primaries than he has. you know, it's not like he's winning everything and being denied -- >> what is the tally, though, without super delegates. >> super delegates can switch. >> they can switch. >> i don't think some peer review is such a bad idea. i think the idea of having politicians who have a lot at stake in this, i think it can be overdone but they're only, what, 17% -- >> even the president has chimed in when he said he shouldn't have, but fine, that's fine, that's fine. >> this was designed to prevent another george mcgovern, to keep a complete collapse from happening in a general election. one thing i think has bernie sanders has accomplish at this point is proving that that's not the mold he's in. if he can, in fact, pull off surprise wins in wisconsin, do well in new york, he's going to go into this convention as somebody who can carry this mantle.

he's not going to be viewed as a fringe mcgovern type as you say these polls are showing him doing better against donald trump. that is a huge accomplishment and i think that's what makes the clinton people nervous. >> and the biggest hurdle isn't super delegates, it a test african-american vote. the high percentage of the african-american votes, if you look back, in '08 and '12 according to the "washington post," in states that had 7% or lower african-american participation, she lost, hillary clinton lost by 30 percentage points in the last two cycles in. states with more than 7%, she won by almost 30 percentage points. so at some point voters have even in the democratic party a say. >> but in the general election are you saying african-americans wouldn't vote for bernie sanders? >> i think a general election they would vote for him overwhelmingly, i'm talking about in the primary process and the hurdles he has coming up. >> for balance, al, just to counter what you what you said, is donald trump winning? >> yes, he's winning. >> it's because there's obsession in the conversation with stopping trump.

so it seems like these outsider candidates -- >> trump is getting more votes than anybody else in the gop contest but he's -- but i mentioned earlier that bernie is running ahead in the polls and trump is not. i mean, that's -- those general election polls are -- there's a huge difference. >> bernie is doing really well. here's what's so interesting, though, it's all about perceptions but. if you take all the delegates, the ones that the voters allocate, then you add on the superdelegates, we showed it before, hillary is up by about 700 delegates. that's pretty insurmountable. you look at what the voters put out there, and you have about a 200 delegate gap. that's a massive difference, especially early in the process where it looks like the process is over before it begins. that's how the democratic party likes doing it. >> even if you strip out the super delegates, joe, because of proportionality, he has to win overwhelmingly and because of right now her overwhelmingly

support among african-americans, the math cuts against him. he's got to do better among blacks if he wants to win the nomination. >> the only way he has any shot -- and it's slim at that -- is to beat her in new york. new york is his gettysburg. he's got to beat her in her home state. i think that would make people sit up and take notice. without that, i think he can go all the way to california, but it's awful hard. >> i think new york state is critical. she's way ahead, he's got to keep it close. >> can i go back to the money for one second? >> yeah. >> so here's my question. donald trump has said -- we talked about it just a minute ago -- "i'm not relying on anybody for donations so i don't answer to anybody." except this general election race could be a billion dollar proposition for both parties. and donald trump has said that he won't rely on super pacs. so my question is who is going pay for all this? who is going pay for a billion dollar campaign? does donald trump have the liquid cash to fund a billion

dollar campaign? >> he won't spend his money, he'll take money from the party or -- >> and will the establishment donors support a -- >> and that's the question. >> and does that hurt his brand? right now he's not self-funding and it will be clear in a general election he's not. >> who knows. you never know. people justify things. barack obama said that he was -- what he was going to only use public funding and then he -- when he figured out that that was not in his best interest he broke that promise and raised more money than anybody's raised in american politics before. but the bigger question is what does the republican establishment do? do they get behind this guy? and, again, right now, i thought two weeks ago washington being washington they would cynically fall in line. that ain't happening. it's getting angrier by the day. >> it is. and you know i also wonder maybe that assumption is faulty. if you think about this election cycle broadly, every assumption we have made about how this is

all supposed to go down is just not how it's happened so okay maybe it will be a billion dollar campaign on the republican side but maybe a donald trump can win a general election the same way he seems to be winning the primary election, which is by spending the least amount of money yet somehow running ahead in the polls. >> on the democratic side, i'm not angrily focused on the coronation. i think hillary clinton is a really good, qualified candidate. i think what's interesting is that despite it, despite sort of the rigged process, despite how the dnc has handled this, and we all know how, bernie sanders keeps exceeding expectations. seemingly out of nowhere. i mean, this guy is an incredible story. donald trump, that makes sense. at least to me it makes sense. he's a celebrity. who was bernie sanders before this? >> he's a cause. he's a caused that's tapped into something. >> that's cool. >> and also there's history in presidential primaries of a front-runner getting established by early margins and somebody coming from behind and winning

later primaries. it happened with jerry brown, it happened with hillary clinton in '08. so, you know, there's an historical precedence for this but i think bernie is also -- message resonates out there. >> kasie hunt, thank you so much. rick tyler, stay with us if you can. still ahead on "morning joe," ted cruz and new york city police commissioner bill bratton square off over who knows best when it comes to counterterrorism on american soil. commissioner bratton joins us ahead. plus, more arrests over the weekend as the picture of a terror cell operating across multiple countries in europe begins to come into focus. keir simmons will join us live from brussels. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. to get where i am. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be.

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donald trump is once again saying the republican party is treating him unfairly following a report in the "wall street journal" that ted cruz may come out ahead in delegates in louisiana after the state convention. >> trump tweeted yesterday "just to show you how unfair republican politics can be, i won the state of louisiana and

get less delegates than cruz. lawsuit coming." meanwhile, some republicans are suggesting trump's opponents team up to stop him. senator lindsey graham said he's going to talk to kasich supporters about a cruz/john kasich ticket which he says the is best way we can stop trump. this while kasich's top strategist john weaver said their campaign has been talking to the cruz campaign about how to deny trump the delegates needed for the nomination, including strategizing to target different areas and contests but weaver calls the cruz campaign disingenuous. oh, dear, saying they will not back down from certain states while the kasich team has. yesterday kasich said if anything he should be at the top of the ticket. >> the narrative over the last week has been "what is wrong with the party? kasich 's the guy that can win the general, some people have said kasich would be the best president. i mean, get out for what? if i'd have gotten out, trump would be the nominee. he would have won ohio and

frankly we'll move to some districts in wisconsin, we'll move to pennsylvania where i'm in a statistical tie with trump and when we go to new york and everywhere else we'll pick up delegates. it's absurd. it's absurd. if you want, let them consolidate behind me because, frankly, i'm the one that can win in the fall and i'm the one that can get the crossover votes. >> rick, rick, rick. our party, man. >> come on, rick. what's going on? >> i don't see those two teams getting together. >> stories about rubio and cruz and neither could figure out how to get together, now it's kasich and cruzment it's just not going to happen, is it? >> no. this never happens. people don't work their tails off, go around the country, raise money, get these supporters, organize to guf it to somebody else. it doesn't happen. >> how about a contested convention? >> in a contested convention, sure. >> can you explain how ted cruz was able to pick up more delegates in louisiana? i don't think the viewers will understand the mechanics that

happened behind the scene there is. >> every state has different rules in how delegates are elected and some are straight correlation with the voters but not always. so people pick their delegates and if you're organized, people come to the convention in large part the same people who come every four years. and so they're -- in many cases they're running to get elected so if you -- if cruz can organize for those delegates to get elected who will support cruz and can be unbound on the first or the second ballot, but probably the second ballot, you can get -- you can pull more delegates out of -- >> cruz didn't cheat her, she just played the game. >> he played by the rules. donald trump has brought up that he's cheating but think of the electoral college. al gore won more popular vote than george w. bush in the 2000 election yet george w. bush won because he got more delegates. >> rick, i agree they're not going to come up with a pact, but dave wasserman of the cook

report wrote an interesting piece saying they ought to collaborate in winner take all places. because when you go in a place like new jersey which is winner take all, when you go into california, if they are competing, if they both are compete, trump will win most of those places. >> that's right. >> so there ought to be -- and it's legitimate. >> i think those conversations are probably -- >> i don't think they're going to get long enough to be able to do it. at least that's what it looked like. >> it's in both of their interests to get along. >> okay. a new poll shows a tight race -- see, ted cruz is a different bird in that department, i think. a tight race in the biggest republican contest of the entire primary. 172 delegates are at stake in california's june 7 primary. a closed contest for registered republicans only. and the new u.sc poll shows trup in the lead among registered voters and john kasich at 12%. >> that's registered voters.

but if you look at the likely voters which is what everybody looks at, the race is tied, trump is at 36, cruise is at 35, john kasich at 14%. this is a strange state. >> you have to go down within the congressional districts. >> and there are51, 52, 35 districts so you get three delegates per each district whether you win a massive one in orange county or in south central l.a. >> that's what wasserman was talking about. also that day is new jersey which is winner take all and if they did -- if cruz spent most of his time in california, give kasich a few districts up in the palo alto area or whatever and kasich spent most of his time in new jersey, that is in both of their interests because that would be the only way to stop trump. >> how do you go about giving someone -- you can only do so

much to instruct voters of a certain ilk to vote strategically like that, right? >> how is in the kasich's interest? >> what? >> somehow that in kasich's interest? >> because if trump wins winner take all in new jersey, that gets him much, much closer -- >> kasich's only path is to get to the convention in which there is no one who has 1237 and he can say "i've got these polling numbers." >> it's in both of their interests to keep trump down. >> you never know how campaigns work out, though, do you? i mean, lightning may struck one candidate or another and suddenly they're going to say -- i mean, i've got to give up california or give up new jersey? i just -- i don't see a politician doing that because, you know, as the old saying goes, in politics a week is a lifetime. >> that's right. and the reason people follow politics and the reason we have shows like this that people tune into is because we don't know what will happen next week. sometimes the media cover this is as if everything is static and here are the numbers that

will never change, bernie can't win or kasich can't get the nomination or cruz is never going to get it. but you know there could be a -- the tide could turn tomorrow and we'll see in wisconsin. >> rick teller, thank you so much. coming up on "morning joe," two more americans confirmed dead as the death toll rises and the manhunt continues in italy, belgium, france, and beyond. plus, new video and new questions about who this man is. nbc's keir simmons joins us to talk about the latest arrests amid concerns that intel in europe stops at the border. when it comes to small business, she's in the know.

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call or go onliand switch to x1. only with xfinity. >> the connection here, the arrest on friday, basically less than 96 hours later the attack happens, there seems to be something here that connects these two incidents. >> i think almost certainly, chuck. and this likely shows a serious failing by the belgians. when we arrested someone in the u.s. or anywhere else, the first thing you always go for, the only thing you're focused on to start is what other attacks might be coming and it looks at least from the outside that that did not occur. but there's a second more strategic piece here which is really striking. this is the first time since 9/11 that we have had a cell or network in the west conduct an attack and then it survives to fight another day and launch another attack. this is after four months of intensive investigation.

>> this has never happened in any other incident, you're usually able to eliminate that cell? >> we've never gotten back to the planners all the time in pakistan or somalia, but the cell in the west, whether it was london moor drid or madrid -- >> you're always able to break up at least that cell. >> four months after intense investigation across europe, they had another attack. >> that was former director of the national counterterrorism center under both president obama and obama michael leiter speaking yesterday on "meet the press." out of brussels, it's been confirmed two more americans were killed in last week's bombings. their identities are still unknown. that comes after nbc news confirms thed that missing amer couple justin and stephanie shults are also among the dead. president obama called their families yesterday to offer his condolences. the death toll stands at 35. as for the investigation into the attacks over the weekend, belgian prosecutors announced

the first criminal charges in connection with the bombings. for more on that, let's bring in nbc news foreign correspondent keir simmons live in brussels, keir, tell us the latest. >> mika, good morning. well, we have just had an appeal from the police here to try to find more information about the man in white, the man wearing the hat who is seen in surveillance video at the airport. that appeal includes, now, a video of him. we had previously seen a still of him walking into n the airport. you can see it there now wearing the hat, wearing white, beside him, mika, are the two suicide bombers who minutes after this footage is taken detonate their explosives, causing that devastation across the airport there. so there were reports here that the police here believe they had apprehended the man in white, that they knew who he was. now they're appealing for new information so that may suggest

that he is still out there. meanwhile, as you mentioned, they say now that they have charged three more people in connection with terrorism part nation a terrorist group. the news that they still need to find that guy who was at the airport or at least a suggestion that they still need to find him, mika, that goes gone this question about how in investigation is going, whether they are managing to follow all the leads despite the fact, of course, they have a very difficult task, they have many people they need to track down. that's clear. >> nbc's keir simmons. thank you very much. it's amazing at this point just the men in white. they don't have anything? >> what's the most remarkable thing about all of this is how badly belgian authorities have mishandled this from the very start, how ill equipped journal despite the fact they have an open borders policy across the e.u. they have a massive refugee crisis. they have thousands and thousands of foreign fighters that are in europe planning

terror attacks right now. they had this guy in plain sight, hiding in plain sight for four months. they arrest him and then they -- they only interview him for one hour. i can tell you in -- let's just say the bad old days or the good old days depending on whether you like interrogation or not, a guy like that, it's logistics, he ran logistics for paris and that is the most valuable person for intel agencies. they would have taken him and they would have been interrogating him non-stop, sort of the ticking time bomb deal. >> sure. >> belgian officials, one hour and then went out and held a press conference and said he's cooperating when he told them nothing. and it's -- >> the problem is not just europe at large, there's so many different state governments that have to interact with each other and are not doing it.

but even in brussels as a city itself they have a problem of people not sharing information, different politicians or security groups not working -- collaborating with each other and it's created this sort of landscape in which you -- in which cells like this can thrive, where they can go undetected and where you have a threat that europe has to confront in a robust way. >> also in the fight against isis, syrian state media government forces have recaptured palmyra with the help of russian air power. the syrian observatory for human rights calls it the single biggest defeat for the islamic state since it declared a caliphate in 2014. last week iraq began to retake mosul from isis but what remains to be seen in pal mimyra is how many of the city's ruins remain

intact. >> al hunt, we obviously pay a great deal of attention to attacks in europe. there are attacks across the globe going on. i find it interesting that every time isis has a setback in what is the number one ballot for him, the caliphate, keeping it together, they respond with an attack. every time one of their key players are captured or killed they did it with paris and then they did in the brussels. but if you go to the bottom line what matters the most to isis, it is having the caliphate and bringing to an end the world through the caliphate, through the money received, getting a dirty bomb or nuclear weapon and starting world war iii. on that level they are losing badly. >> i think you're right, joe. that's at least what we're told. if they can't hold that territory over there and they can't keep that revenue coming in, they can engage in more

terrorist strikes in europe and elsewhere but for them to be successful long term they have to have that territory and they have to have that money and it appears they are losing. i don't think it's dramatic yet. but it appears they are not as advanced today as they were. >> they are suffer some fundamental setbacks. we've killed the 23rd straight number -- two -- >> it's more dangerous being number two in isis than the number three in al qaeda. >> you don't want to be the number two guy. but some of their top leadership the taken out. you're seeing setbacks against assad and they're doing one off attacks in response because there is a huge public relation component. they need to bring in money. >> when you're losing on the battleground, it is about recruiting, you lose recruits so you have a high profile attack in europe and that helps with the recruits. >> one way they see themselves

as being able to win is by having strikes that strike fear in us and have politicians, somebody like donald trump who divides christians from muslims, who demonizes muslims. one advantage we have is our muslim community is much more assimilated, much less isolated than in europe and one thing i would hate to see coming out of this cycles is more of what's happening in europe. >> so there's also what's happening in pakistan. a splinter group of the pakistani taliban is claiming responsibility for a deadly bombing at a park, killing dozens on easter sunday. at least 72 people, many of them women and children, were killed in the suicide bombing near a swing set at a popular public park in lahore yesterday. more than 300 others injured. at the time of the bombing, police say the park was crowded with christians celebrating the easter holiday. crowds of people rushed to a hospital following the bombing. one witness told the a.p. he helped take 20 children to the hospital. a spokesman for the terror group

said the attack was meant to send a message that they can not be stopped even in a government stronghold. lahore is the hometown of the prime minister and his brother and chief minister of the province. up next, nypd commissioner bill bratton has worked plenty of beats during his career in law enforcement. but has he ever picked a fight with a presidential candidate before? he writes that ted cruz "knows absolutely nothing about counterterrorism in new york city." and commissioner bratton joins us next with the facts. trolling for a gig with braindrone? can't blame you. it's a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you. yeah that's probably safer.

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characterization of this population, i have muslim officers willing to sacrifice their lives in foreign countries. >> so that was commissioner of the new york city police department bill bratton responding to comments made by presidential candidate ted cruz about monitoring certain muslim communities in america following the recent terror attacks overseas. commissioner bratton wrote an op-ed for the "new york daily news" over the weekend which reads in part this. >>

commissioner bratton joins us now in new york. thank you for being on. >> commissioner, we're pretty clear on your feelings regarding ted cruz's statement last week. let's talk about counterterrorism more generally and in new york city what works in new york city that has not worked in, say, brussels or paris, as it pertains to our muslim population and making muslim americans feel like they're part of our city, stated on country? >> we have a huge muslim population from all over the world, not just arab countries, 700,000 to 800,000 of them.

i have almost a thousand muslim officers in my department. in new york, the counterterrorism efforts are vast and huge. the 9/11 event was a wakeup call for american, certainly from new york city. my predecessor ray kelly put in place a great foundation we've been building on that. we're attempting to repair damaged relationships with this that muslim community that has been broken because they felt we were spying on them, trying to intimidate them, not concerned with their concerns. we've learned with the past. much as we've had the same issues with african-american communities over these many generations that you cannot police a community without effectively working with them. and we work very hard at that. >> talk specifically is. what are you talking about when you say mistakes were made in the community regarding spying and intimidating that community? what time frame are you talking about? >> for example, senator cruz was talking about a unit here in the nypd that was put in place after

9/11, the demographics unit. at one timed the 14 to 16 detectives and the attempt was made to identify where did various communities live in new york city and very specifically muslim communities and many diverse nationalities that make up that community. that unit began to be disbanded around 2012, 2013. when i came into office in 2014 with mayor de blasio there were two detectives left in that unit. the work had been done, the unit was disband bid myself but it's been portrayed by the tabloids and senator cruz that somehow or another by disbanding that unit that we lost a valuable tool in the fight against terrorism. we did not. it was never an investigatetory agency. the chief of my intelligence unit testified in a lawsuit that the unit never developed one piece of actionable intelligence. so there's a misrepresentation that's been played over and over again and that senator cruz in his lack of knowledge a of what works in new york rerate rated

in his attack on this city. >> so as the commissioner of a police force that has muslim members, a good number of them, it's not just senator cruz, it's donald trump who talked about a ban on muslims coming into this country. is when you hear words like that floating around the presidential debates and in the press, how does it impact the work that your forces are trying to do on the ground? >> it makes it very difficult. you can imagine if you're a muslim police officer. i have several thousand other muslims working in various entities. i can imagine how they feel they came this-to-this country to get away from tyranny and to hear themselves if you will, portrayed as somehow or another enemies of our country, it hurts. i was at a restaurant last evening, the waiter who i've known for many years, muslim, was talking about his eight-year-old daughter in a

public school here about the concerns she has about daddy, why do they hate us so much? so words hurt and they really do hurt if you're the subject of them. >> pulitzer prize winning editorial writer for the "washington post" jonathan cape heart is with us. he has a question for us. >> great to see you, commissioner. i think senator cruz is making a big mistake picking a fight with a new york city police commissioner this regard for all the reasons you talked about but from all the things you have read from your own nypd intelligence unit about what's happenen in brussels, from everything you know, what would you advise law enforcement officials in brussels to do to ensure that brussels is safe and that something like this doesn't happen again? >> well belgium has a unique set of circumstances. often times the police within the same entity are not talking to each other. quite clearly europe's problem is that the security agencies

across the various countries are not communicating with each other to the degree we do here. we learned after 9/11 that we needed to communicate better so we have fusion centers throughout the country are staffed by federal, state, local sheriff's departments and in new york we have the largest of them all and it's about the sharing of information, about collaboration. it's something the europeans are having great difficulty with and within belgium, the belgians are having difficulty even within their own entities community kating with each other based on the public testimony by some of their ministers over these last several days. >> al? >> mr. commissioner, are we sharing information with the europeans? the information sharing you say is much better here than it was prior to 9/11 but are we sharing our information with the europeans and vice versa? >> certainly, that, for example, we have our joint task force here, the counterterrorism task force headed up by the fbi and

the fbi would be the principal entity along with cia and other government agencies, that sharing of information. i was down at the national center for terrorism in washington, nctc, for briefing on thursday in a presentation that john miller, my counterterrorism chief that we need that entity. the sharing of the that is much better than it was. we've gotten better at it but there's still issues apparently based on everything i'm hearing on the current investigations over in europe on that information sharing within the european nations. commissioner bill bratton, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. still ahead this morning, new developments in the investigation into hillary clinton's private e-mails. plus, bernie sanders gets the bird in oregon. that's not -- okay. he -- that sounds terrible. he follows up on his massive crowd friday with massive wins

over the weekend. the new momentum his cam is enjoying after sweeping the weekend. "morning joe" is back in a moment. reunio fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. ♪ when it's go, the new choice privileges gets you there faster. and now, stay two times and you can earn a free night. . now at now at choicehotels.com when you think what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world?

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all right. in our final moments of this hour, i would like to read from "the new york times'" frank breny, lose with cruz, a love story. i'm not sure we've ever witnessed a capitulation this

grudging, a cynicism this grotesque, a reversal of regard this fraudulent and flat-out hilarious. while politics is an impure arena in which yesterday's enemies routinely become tomorrow's allies, the transmogryification -- sam stein, definition? >> i knew the word, but i'll look it up for you, sure. to change or transform into a different shape, especially a grotesque or bizarre one. >> the transmogrifcation of cruz goes beyond that, you can see about anyone in a newly and flattering light. cruz has gone from the insufferable nemesis of republican traditionalists to their last best hope. the terms of endearment are teary ones, because this isn't the relationship they wanted one, it's the only relationship that's left. he gets their love because someone must. isn't it romantic? >> jonathan capehart, what trump has brought to the republican party -- >> how can i top frank bruni.

>> i know, what?! >> donald trump's campaign since june 15th, 2016, has rendered me speechless. what he's done to political discourse, to the republican party, and that he's done to these candidates running against them, forcing them into the arms of senator ted cruz -- >> unbelievable! >> -- is just -- >> but he has sort of moved the window a bit, right? like, to have ted cruz seem like sort of the more moderate, reasonable man, when he's calling for police to, you know, patrol muslim neighborhoods, is really, maybe -- >> pretty staggering. >> most alarming accomplishment. >> get the endorsement of jeb bush. >> oh, my god! >> no! >> who'd have thunk it. >> an early morning press release -- >> lindsey graham said he wanted to -- he would kill him on the senate floor, one week later, he's endorsing the guy. >> it's just not right. okay, up next, donald trump's foreign policy positions under new scrutiny. why the "new york post" has labeled him america's first leader of the "fee" world. and after this unconventional primary season,

will the general election be the most negative ever? we'll bring the in "washington post's" dan balz, who says the tone of the main event will make it almost impossible to govern. are we governing now? >> no. no we're not. >> "morning joe" is back in a bit. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today. what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good.

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you see, this little bird doesn't know it -- [ cheering ]

>> that was an incredible moment. a bird paying bernie sanders a visit during his rally in portland, oregon, on friday, seemingly unfazed by the 11,000-person crowd that the senator was addressing. they were going crazy. >> it was incredible. >> sam thinks it was mechanical. >> it's incredible, because if you think about, how did hillary clinton get a listening device implanted on that bird. >> the clintons will do anything! >> and guide it straight on to bernie. >> how does that happen? good morning. it's monday. >> now, mika saw that moment as having great religious significance. >> i just thought it was sweet, his smile. so with this said, senior political editor and white house correspondent for the "huffington post," sam stein, who is very cynical. senior political columnist for the "national journal," ron

fourni fournier. columnist for bloomberg view, tim hunt. kasie hunt, and in new york, managing editor, bloomberg politics, mike halperin. >> before we get into all of the details, let's talk about bernie sanders' big, big weekend. >> and the bird! >> bird notwithstanding. a very, very big weekend at bernie's. >> birds, big crowds, and three big victories in hawaii, washington, alaska. it sets up a week from norm wisconsin. he's got to go step by step. wisconsin next votes on its own. and two eex after that, new york. if he can keep the winning streak alive through new york, beat her in new york, he's still an underdog, but he will have a lot of momentum headed into that big following contest in the northeast. he's got to go step by step with wisconsin next, but he smashed her in three western states and picks up momentum, which is what he needs now, as much as he needs delegates. as you mentioned, he won the

hawaii, wisconsin, and alaska caucuses in landslides. he still trails her by 675 delegates overall. as the results were still coming if on saturday, sanders was in wisconsin, ahead of that state's primary on april 5th. look at this crowd. and at a rally in madison, he struck a defiant tone in front of more than 8,000 people. >> we are making significant inroads in secretary clinton's lead and we have -- we have with most support coming here in wisconsin, we have a path toward victory! >> wow. >> al, bernie sanders, supposedly knocked out of the march 15th contest, came roaring back with massive victories out

west. you take away the super delegates, which of course you don't do, and this is a close race. but those super delegates can always move around. we've got another story about the fbi investigation moving in even more aggressively. talk about bernie sanders, what he accomplished this weekend, and whether he has a reason to believe that things may fall his way. >> well, lightning could strike. they have accomplished everything they said they were going to accomplish. i remember talking to him on the night of march 15th, a gloomy night. they lost everything. and he said, nope, the next three weeks will be great for us. we'll win a whole bunch of caucuses and primaries and then we go to wisconsin and i think wisconsin is a real showdown. bernie sanders with that group of young people and progressives, has a shot winning there. and then if he can beat her in a showdown, in her home state, it changes his dynamics. still a decided underdog, joe, but bernie sanders is not going away. >> no, he's not. and also, i just keep wondering if while everyone's talking

about how trump was underestimated and the media missed that, i wonder if we keep missing this story. >> keep missing. >> i mean, how do you cast away those crowds, kasie? >> you can't. and honestly, i've covered sanders day to day now for several months and every single one of those events is the same. everywhere he goes, they are drawing these huge crowds. unlike campaigns who are worried about booking a room that will be too big for the people that show up, their problem is, finding a venue big enough. >> let me ask you this, would hillary clinton -- and i'm saying this just wondering -- >> i would answer no, hillary can't get the crowds. she can't get the crowds and she can't get that excitement. >> but she is going to get an interview coming up, it seems. >> well, okay. we'll go to that, which is another major headline this morning. >> it actually plays into what we just saw. >> the "los angeles times" reports this morning that the investigation into hillary clinton's e-mail server is about to enter a new phase. the paper cites two sources familiar with the probe who say that federal prosecutors have

begun to step up formal interviews in the coming weeks with longtime clinton aides. meanwhile, a lengthy sunday cover story in "the washington post" describes how the clinton e-mail scandal took root, writing in part that clinton aides and senior officials, quote, paid insufficient attention to laws and regulations governing the handling of classified material and the preservation of government records, interviews. they also neglected to repeated warnings about the security of her blackberry. while clinton and her closest aides took obvious security risks in using the basement server. that was the one in her house in chappaqua, right? early on, there were concerns about clinton using a blackberry in the so-called mahogany row area of the state department, because of previous espionage attempts. according to the post, in march of 2009, when state department official told clinton, quote, any unclassified blackberry is highly vulnerable in any setting to remotely and covertly

monitoring conversations, retrieving e-mails and exploiting calendars, nine days later, clinton told the official that she had read his memo and gets it. according to an e-mail sent by a senior diplomatic security official, but according to the paper, clinton kept using her private blackberry and the basement server. vice news knows that more than 1,800 e-mails were withheld or heavily redacted under exemptions to the freedom of information act, incoming 22 that were not released because they were deemed top secret and would cause, quote, exceptionally grave damage to national security if disclosed. >> so ron fournier, that's the line here. you know, hillary clinton and her team have been saying is all along, we didn't send or receive any classified information. the state department has said that there are 1,800 e-mails, but 22 e-mails were deemed top secret and would cause, quote, exceptionally grave damage to

national security if disclosed. i've been hearing some commentators say this is much to do about nothing and that the fbi is just checking the systems out for their own exercise. they're moving now into a phase where they're granting immunity, they're springing everybody and interviewing, including, one news report says, the secretary herself. this seems to be expanding far beyond a procedural investigation. >> well, it has been beyond a procedural investigation, practically from the beginning. >> can i ask why that hasn't been reported? because you ask reporters behind the scenes, they'll tell you, they know there are 150 or so fbi investigators on the scene. that never makes it into these stories. >> well, because we let ourselves get tied up in the knots with the spin from both sides. it's true we don't have a legal target in this investigation. any implication or suggestion that hillary clinton has been or is a target would be incorrect. but that doesn't mean this isn't

a criminal investigation. the fbi is looking into the possibility that crimes were violated. i think, look, what we have here is what is baked in the cake, joe, is that we know hillary clinton has not been honest about this. and we show -- it's shown in the polls that most americans think they can't trust her. we know that she's showed a disregard for the freedom of information act, a total disregard for the freedom of information act, for the whole idea of legislative oversight, for the whole idea of the value of a historical record. that's baked in the cake. i think what's going to happen here, in these stories are correct, she's likely to be interviewed. that's going to bring all of that back up to the surface. but the big question is, the only thing that really changes the game is if we have any criminal charges. i don't know that's going to happen. >> and the things you talked about, intel officials have been saying to me, and have been angry for some time, not so much about foia, they've been talking about the reckless disregard for the classified information. and th there's so many classified documents that both

came and went. and, you know, when they talk about -- it wasn't marked on there, that's just a distinction without a difference. >> so politically, that plays into this whole question that we really can't trust her. that she's been saying things like, well, they weren't marked classified when we all know and voters understand that really doesn't matter. legally, there's a big bar you have to get over to prosecute anybody for these crimes. much less somebody who's running for president. and as critical as i've been of hillary clinton, and i am very critical of hillary clinton, and i understand when somebody's running for president, there's a higher bar you have to get over. we can't have a system in which we're constantly charging people who are running for president -- >> actually, the bar is a reckless use of classified information. and i will tell you, if an fbi agent took a classified document out and went and just left it in the coffee shop, and then went back, you know, their career would be over. i can tell you, also, that any had gone to an intel briefing

and they had told me what happened, you know, in whatever program, and then i went back to my office and i sent an e-mail, as a congressman, out about the information i learned at that intel briefing, they would be in my office in three hours, and would say, congressman, you need to get an attorney because that's illegal. >> i'll tell you -- >> and the scale of this is so remarkable, i don't know how james comey -- i do not know how james comey doesn't do something definitive. election year or not. >> look, you're going to turn me, i'm not -- politically, there are severe questions about her judgment that voters really have to look into. legally, i can't sit here in a sentence and say that she has definitely violated the law. and i do know -- >> i'm not saying that either -- >> okay, but there is a higher bar you have to get over before you prosecute somebody who's running for president. that's a fact. >> in what statute is that? >> section "b" -- >> thank you!

there are a lot of people that would say we're all equal under the law. >> well -- this is the thing, though, there is -- i mean, it's not codified, right? but we all recognize it. and this is sort of the frustration for clinton critics, which is exactly what you're talking about. is that had she been some sort of underling at the state department, certainly there would have been different standards applied to her, as opposed to her being the secretary of state. >> if she were an underling, she would already have charges against her. >> now -- >> all that's granted. now, the clinton people turn around and say, listen, there's been reports that show that colin powell did almost identically the same thing, which is a forwarding of information that was later deemed classified, on his private e-mail county. and there is not an uproar over him. the magnitude of colin powell -- >> it is completely different. there weren't regulations -- >> that came before -- exactly, it came before the -- this is why democrats -- >> the standard is you're leaving classified information around and it could be, you know, taken by -- >> which is why they put the regulations in place, because

they would like to always -- >> yeah. >> there is no -- >> think why democrats are privately still really nervous and part of why, i think, bernie sanders' campaign, to a certain extent. nobody wants to say out loud, oh, hey, now we have somebody who is strong enough to step up, into those shoes, as our nominee, if, in fact, this scandal blows up, in a way, as you were saying with criminal charges. nobody wants to say that out loud, but there are a lot of democrats who are still really nervous. >> and this invites bernie to stay in. >> mark halperin, i was going to ask you, from what i heard, while they don't mention it publicly, that is also a calculation that a lot of sanders' supporters, but also a lot of democratic fund-raisers are concerned about. what happens as this investigation continues to grow. 175 fbi agents, interviews coming up. and more damning details coming up by the weekend. what are you hearing behind the scenes from the democratic leadership? >> well, look, you just don't know.

the clinton aides who were named in the "los angeles times" story to be interviewed, these are people who know a lot about hillary clinton. know a lot about her e-mail practices, and you just don't know what happens when they get called in to be interviewed. and if you look at the calendar and you look at how long it's going to be where bernie sanders will be in this race, through june, in california, there's the prospect of, for him, the alignment of political victories and nervousness within the democratic party, of nominating someone who would be, potentially, under criminal investigation. potentially. and so it is, it is obviously for him, if he wants to be the democratic nominee, to be as strong as possible. i think the days are over when people think that if she does run into legal trouble, that someone could take this nomination away from bernie sanders. and that argument only grows stronger the more delegates he wins, if it comes to the point where there is more nervousness. there is clearly nervousness now. democrats got over -- they were so distracted with her fight with bernie sanders, they got over overobsessing with the

investigation, but when this interview take place, she will be under pressure to explain -- whether she broke the law or not, or whether a democratic justice department indicts her or not, it is clear she was cavalier about this and people are uncomfortable with what she did. still ahead, donald trump defines his foreign policy vision, but some are rubbing their eyes in disbelief. our conversation with david sanger. and walt whitman once road, i am large, i contain multitudes -- >> i obviously was not a millennial. >> yeah. that may be, but is the republican party big enough for both paul ryan and donald trump? we'll talk with "the washington post's" dan balz about his new piece. and it will all make sense after this. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> guys, we had a great weekend, for the most part, in areas of the east. this morning, not so nice. kind of a gloomy monday. a little rough getting back to

work and school. let me show you some pictures from the cherry blossoms. they're about a week or two early in d.c. because of the warm spring and winter we had. but they are at peak bloom and they look gorgeous. unfortunately, this morning, some of them are coming down in the rain. the rain's been with us in d.c. over the last couple of hours. it's starting to clear up, one or two more hours, but it's a soaking rain heading into the southern portion of new england. and our poor friends in areas just north of detroit, that rain has just turned over snow. that's ugly. here's the new york city area, rain has moved in, philadelphia one more batch for you and the other stuff will go north. obviously, a monday morning in the northeast, some airport delays, but not horrible. laguardia's at 45 minute delays and a precise 16-minute delay right now in philadelphia. the other story already will be winter storm. winter weather in the rockies, severe weather outbreak possible in the middle of the country as we go into thursday. this is how much snow. 1 to 2 feet in wyoming.

let's talk about next weekend, because this has been a little bit of a buzz. we've had hints and indications of a really unusually cold outbreak coming down into the eastern half of the country. so this is going to be one more cold blast. this is saturday morning, this upcoming weekend, we're at 20 in international falls and it gets colder from there. this is the temperature. not even factoring in the fact it's going to be windy, too. even northern new england drops to 8 in burlington. windchills will be in the negative numbers. it's been very mild. looks like we have one more shot, probably saturday through monday, and then it will warm up next week after that. don't put away the gloves and hats and winter coats yet if you live in the northern half of the country. speaking of washington, d.c., we are watching the showers still with us, but that's a beautiful picture there at the mall. you're watch "morning joe." we'll be right back. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. until one of you clipst da food truck..

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how'd you learn about what

happened in brussels? what happened? what was that -- >> i received a call in the morning, and then i turned on the television. >> like 5:00 a.m.? >> pretty early. >> your friend knows to call you that early. that's a good friend. >> i'm not a big sleeper. >> you were scheduled to do a bunch of morning show interviews by phone. did you consult anybody about what to say? >> i don't have to consult -- i say it from my heart and my brain. it's not just heart. it's heart and brain. and that's what i do. >> so, that was a scene from the latest episode of showtime's "the circus." donald trump's foreign policy views are coming under new scrutiny, after the republican front-runner spent 100 minutes talking to "the new york times" about the issues on friday. trump summed up his world view by saying, quote, i'm not an isolationist, but i am america first. so i like the expression. we have been disrespected, mocked, and ripped off for many, many years by people who were smarter, shrewder, tougher. we were the big bully, but we were not smartly led. the big stupid bully.

and we were systemically ripped off by everybody. trump says he is willing to withdraw u.s. forces from south korea and japan unless they increase their payments for protection. leading to the "new york post" to label him leader of the "fee" world. this come just days after trump seemingly dodged questions from "the washington post's" editorial board about the specifics behind his plan to quickly defeat isis. >> if you could substantially reduce the risk of harm to ground troops, would you use the battlefield nuclear weapon to take out isis? >> i don't want to use -- i don't want to start the process of nuclear. remember, one thing that everybody has said, i'm a counterpuncher. rubio hit me. bush hit me. when i said low-energy, he's a low-energy individual. he hit me first. i spent -- by the way, i spent $18 million worth of negative ads on him -- >> this is about isis. would not deploy a nuclear weapon against isis -- >> by the way, one thing. this is a good-looking group of

people. could i go around so i know who the hell i'm talking about. >> sure. >> at that point, trump's campaign manager said they had five minutes left and the subject was never returned to. nbc's andrea mitchell shared her analysis of trump's foreign policy ideas yesterday on "meet the press". >> he would cancel defense treats with japan and south korea against north korea. he doesn't mind, he would be okay if japan and south korea go nuclear, american policy for decades since world war ii have been trying to keep nukes out of that arena. he would stop importing oil from saudi arabia if they don't pay more for their defense. we need oil? we are not energy-independent. we rely on oil. still for our daily needs. he is completely all over the lot. on iran, he believes -- he complained that iran isn't buying our planes. it had to be pointed out to him that iran is still under sanctions and cannot buy planes. he thinks north korea and iran are the biggest trading while

north korea's biggest trading partner is china. he is completely uneducated about any part of the world. >> and, you know what ron fournier, while she was ticking off in angry, several of those points, you were saying, everybody in your hometown -- >> in mccomb county -- >> is going, yep! and i'm thinking everybody in northwest florida is going, yep. oh, the japanese, who we've carried for 50, 60 years, they keep getting a free ride. germans, the rest of the world, the saudis who we sent our young men and women to fight and die for and defend their oil over the past 20 years get a free ride. i mean, i understand it's far more intricate than that, but andrea didn't realize, a lot of things she was ticking the off, a lot of americans were saying, we're tired of the free ride. and i know that, because in speeches that we give, that we always hear that. how much longer are we going to have to carry the world on our shoulders? >> i'm sure andrea understands what's going on out there. what's happening is, she's right. donald trump is completely

uneducated on these issues and he doesn't understand the post-war new order -- post-world war ii order in the world. the problem is he also reflects the fact that most americans don't trust -- many americans don't trust the post-world war ii order. they don't trust elites and the political sblimt and how we've been doing things. you could make a good argument he's unfit for the presidency, but he's tapping into this angry and frustration you're talking about. >> mika, we talked about this over the weekend, i am stunned every day by people that i learn are going to vote for donald trump, who i would have never predicted in a million years were going to vote for donald trump. i just dish mean, and it's a lot of people -- and a lot of them, i go, why? you're an evangelical, you go to church five days a week, you have always voted for the most socially -- why? and it always goes back to, you know what? we have been let down by every

politician out there. he's run things for -- again -- >> he gets us. >> yeah, he gets us. you know what, he may not be one of us, but he certainly is not one of them. it's, it is -- >> i think he thinks, he's one of us. anyway, let's bring in one of the journalists who interviewed trump on foreign policy, chief washington correspondent for "the new york times," david sanger. >> david, the first question, did donald trump also say you were a very good-looking person. >> you know, we were on the phone, so, what can i tell you, joe? >> oh, okay. so he talked about america first, but i thought it was very interesting what, i think i saw you write or it was in the subhead of a "times" article, america first, everybody else pays. talk about donald trump's world view in front of times. >> well, first of all, america's first line, i had asked him, would it be a fair summation of his views that he was america's

first? and he leapt on that. but the everyone else pays is the key part of this, joe. because what it essentially means is that he is reorienting the nature of american alliances if he gets into office. and for 70 years, that has been based on the theory that's it's in our interests to keep sea lions open, to have forward deployed troops to keep the peace, to be able to gather intelligence by having troops out and intelligence operations out around the world. and he's basically saying, no, it's benefiting everybody. they're going to have to go pay for it. it turns the u.s. foreign policy into a much more mercenary approach. >> i think you were absolutely right, that he is tapping into something, but i think he is courting much more danger. i think, basically, what is going to accumulate, in what you're seeing in the surveys is that they're going to say, wait a minute, this man is unfit to be president. he has negatives, show, in the

bloomberg poll and in the "wall street journal" nbc poll, like we have never seen in american history. >> you know who comes in second? >> hillary. hillary clinton. ten points behind. >> no, no 15 points and a very unfavorable 20 points behind. it is striking. in our poll, we have never sen anyone close to that. peter hart says the only person who has that kind of unfavorables is yasser arafat. so i think he appeals to a segment, but i think those negatives are so high and i think this interview probably compounds that, this man probably doesn't know -- >> arafat got 40 electoral college votes. so if trump just flips -- >> but he's -- >> you know, sam, the last poll i saw, trump had disapproval ratings in the high 60s. hillary was in the high 50s. hillary's been in public office for 30 years now. donald trump for six months. i'll just tell you, it's easier to move the american's negatives

in six months, as we saw in the republican primary early on, than it is to move the other. i'm not saying that donald trump can catch up, but people that are saying that trump has high disapproval ratings and can't win, they're whistling past the graveyard in march. >> he'll have to do quite the pivot and apologize to many of the demographic groups that feel deeply offended by what's happening in the course of the primary. is it doable? i don't though, maybe. coming up on "morning joe," hillary clinton is set to give a major speech on president obama's supreme court nomination and take on donald trump directly. nbc white house correspondent, kristen welker joins us ahead, live from the campaign trail in wisconsin. ♪ ♪ ♪ for your retirement, you want to celebrate the little things, because they're big to you.

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everywhere i go, every leader i meet, they ask about what is happening in america. they cannot believe it. i think it is fair to say that they're shocked. they don't know where it's taking the united states of america. it upsets people's sense of equi librium about our steadiness and

reliability. and to some degree, i must say to you, some of the questions they pose to me, it's clear that some of things are an embarrassment to our country. >> i'm shocked by him. and i'm embarrassed he would sign the iran deal, one of the worst deals i've ever seen, a horrible, horrible embarrassment deal. i'm shocked by his policy of open door. you talk about downfall, this could lead to the downfall of the greatest nation onert. >> that was donald trump this morning, firing back at secretary of state john kerry. joining us from madison, wisconsin, nbc news white house correspondent, kristen welker, who's been covering the clinton campaign. kristen, despite getting swept over the weekend, hillary clinton's campaign is still looking ahead to a matchup with trump. >> reporter: you're absolutely right, mika. good morning. we're going to see more signs of that today. secretary clinton is going to give a speech here at the university of wisconsin, about the supreme court, but she's going to use it as a chance to

take direct aim at donald trump, as she steadily pivots to the general election. hillary clinton increasingly setting her sights on the next battle. >> love trump's hate. >> reporter: taking aim at donald trump on the trail, and behind the scenes, her campaign devising a strategy and arsenal of attacks against the gop front-runner who signals he's doing the same. >> i haven't even started on clinton yet. >> reporter: clinton officials tell nbc news trump's gop challengers have made a series of missteps, giving democrats a playbook for not what to do. the first error, they say, underestimating him. >> he's not going to be the nominee of the republican party. and worse, trying to beat trump at his own game, a tactic that backfired for marco rubio. >> have you seen his hands? >> reporter: clinton aides say the former secretary of state will engage on her most comfortable turf, policy. that strategy on display after he called for limited u.s. engagement in nato. >> in mr. trump gets his way, it

will be like christmas in the kremlin. >> reporter: and concerned about trump's appeal with working class voters, the clinton campaign is also looking for ways to undercut his business record. >> i've been very successful. >> reporter: perhaps clinton's greatest weapon, trump's own words, which have alienated some minorities and helped create this growing gender gap. clinton beats trump among all women voters, 60 to 31%. one gop attack ad, hitting him hard on the issue. >> fat big. >> real quotes from donald trump about women. >> i hate to see that. >> reporter: the question now, is trump truly teflon or does he have an achilles heel. >> reporter: trump has been tight-lipped about his foreign policy strategy, but we've seen him sharply criticize hillary clinton for her record on foreign policy, and of course that e-mail controversy. he might have some new fodder today. the "l.a. times" reporting that the fbi investigation is entering a new phase, seeking interviews with some of secretary clinton's former aides, to ask them about the e-mail issue.

i spoke with one clinton campaign official this morning who said, look, secretary clinton has always encouraged everyone to cooperate fully with this investigation. she is, herself, prepared to answer questions, and they, in fact, think this could be a sign that this investigation is nearing its completion. still, it's just all a part of this drip, drip, drip that could make her vulnerable in a general election. mika, joe, back to you. >> nbc's kristen welker, thank you very much. joining us now on set, senior writer at "the weekly standard," john mccormack. and chief correspondent at "the washington post," dan balz. dan is out with a new piece that asks, can paul ryan and donald trump co-exist within the republican party? and dan, your piece references the speech that speaker ryan gave last week, about the state of american politics. we're going to play a part of that speech and then read from your article. take a listen. >> our political discourse both the kind that we see on tv and the kind that we experience among each other, it did not used to be this bad.

and it does not have to be this way. instead of playing to your anxieties, we can appeal to your aspirations. instead of playing the identity politics of our base versus their base, we unite people around ideas and principles. and instead of being timid, we go bold. >> and so, dan, you write in part, this. house speaker paul ryan attempted to lift the horizons of his party with a speech last week in which he called for a competition of ideas, rather than insults and constructive political debate, rather than the politics of demonization. his effort to rescue the party from a coming crisis is laudable, but the root causes of the condition go far beyond donald trump. it isn't clear that what the speaker advocated in his speech would be enough to put the republican party in a better place, even absent trump. house republicans are still an unruly group. and with some exceptions, the

gop still prefers to try to do business with itself. the republican party remains a party of protest. it continues to struggle to demonstrate that on the national level. it can be a true governing party. >> so, dan, one problem for paul ryan and the republican party is republican voters in the primary, they have had a choice between paul ryan's party and donald trump's party. they could have chose scott walker, jeb bush, marco rubio, you name it. they don't want paul ryan's party right now. they want dronald trump's party. so how do those two sides square? >> well, i mean, i think we will find out in cleveland, whether they can coexist. i mean, you're absolutely right. so far, the voters in the republican primaries have rejected the kind of approach that paul ryan has talked about. but even if paul ryan had his way, it's not enough to say, well, we have to speak in a more positive way. the party is divided.

the party is split. and in some ways, i thought that the speaker's comments, however significant, left open this question of, what would he do if he had his way to be able to do it? and i don't think he answered that question. >> i feel like, john, he was describing a condition that we've been enduring for more than a decade, not just recently. >> exactly. i mean, i think what paul ryan is right to say is that his view is still the majority view in the party. that donald trump has a strong and intense plurality, but that it's still a minority view. if you go back into ryan's home state of wisconsin, head-to-head, donald trump loses. donald trump is underwater among a majority of republican voters and ted cruz is edging him out right now. >> but ted cruz isn't paul ryan's party, either. that's the problem. we had this fallacy, dan, for six to nine months, that the person that was going to run against trump was going to be the person winning in the establishment lane. everybody in the establishment

lane gets knocked down to single digits. marco rubio stumbled off the stage at 4%. jeb stumbled off the stage at 3% or 4%. there is no establishment wing of this party right now, at least not-based on what we've seen for the past six months. >> well, i think there's an establishment wing, but there's an establishment wing that doesn't have any particular power to be table to effect the outcome of results with the ways. >> with the base. >> to john's point, i think you're right about that, and yet this is such a divided party. that's what this fight is all about. is, is there a way, a, who will have supremacy at the end of this. who will be the nominee. and then, can that nominee bring that party together. >> and sam, paul ryan's party is not ted cruz's party. and so you combine ted cruz's percentage in wisconsin or any state, and donald trump's percentage in every state, and again, you have a republican establishment, and i'm a paul ryan guy. so i guess i'm talking about

myself, you have a republican establishment divorced from the vast majority of people who vote republican primaries. >> when i watched paul ryan's speech, i was wondering, how much of his concerns are about the rhetoric and how much is about the policy? if you look at some of the major policies trump is pushing, they're antithetic to what paul ryan wants to do. all the stuff that paul ryan hates is something embodied by trump. and so i guess my question for dan is, were trump to be pushing these policies with the same resto rhetorical flourishes he does, do you think paul ryan would have a problem with them? >> i think he would have a problem, and the question is, would he ultimately feel need to break with donald trump if donald trump is the nominee. he hasn't said he's prepared to do that, but it's a terribly difficult choice for him for all the reasons you outline. what trump is enunciating is an anathema to what the paul ryan wing of party believes.

>> and that's even, ron fournier, if donald trump were the nicest, most eloquent refined speaker. he would still be going against everything paul ryan believes when it comes to trade. everything paul ryan believes when it comes to entitlement reform. everything paul ryan believes when it comes to tax reform. everything paul ryan believes when it comes to the affordable care act. >> and more importantly, his voters, the base, does not want the paul ryan party. that's what's happening here. the voters have created donald trump. they're ticked off with the establishment here, which is why i wonder, you know, you end your story with the question, can the republican party on a national level with a governing party? how is the answer anything other than no? >> well, so far, it hasn't been able to square that circle. and to some extent, the house republicans have symbolized that for a number of years. so what would paul ryan do to be able to bring the party together, if he were, you know, if he were the leader in some other particular way? it's still open.

>> john, let me ask you, in closing. and i want you to know, especially over the holiday weekend, our thoughts and prayers were with all of you at "the weekly standard," how's bill kristol? >> how is he? >> bill's great. >> no, he's not. >> let me try that again. how's bill kristol doing? >> bill's a happy war wror. >> no, he's not! no, he's not. >> you cannot tell a lie. >> like i said earlier, you beat trump in midwest, you beat him in the west, and he's not going to be the nominee. that's six states out of this next 17. beat him in wisconsin -- >> so i see he put the chip in your head, too. >> i'm the neurotic one with the delegate spreadsheet and trying to map out how ted cruz can stop donald trump. >> let me tell you, we know bill kristol, bill kristol is a friend of ours, and you are the neurotic one in this group. >> dan balz, thank you very much for being upon still ahead, while humans may still be ahead

of artificial intelligence -- >> well, at least for this week -- >> at least for now, sarah eisen explains a twitter experiment that went very, very wrong. >> you know what it's called? >> what's it called? >> twitter. keep it here on "morning joe." most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest

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oh, my gosh. >> she does. >> moviegoers went to the theater -- >> oh, stop! stop, you two. we're on tv now. >> moviegoers went to the

theater in record numbers -- >> fly like an eagle. >> guys, the camera's on -- >> talking about meeting the bird. >> to see "batman v. superman: dawn of justice." is that really a movie? >> yes, it is. >> the film debuted to $170 million over the easter weekend, despite some of the harshest critiques -- >> who would go see that? >> seriously, this -- what in the world is this -- >> "ish tar" got better reviews than "batman v superman," but it now ranks as a top opening weekend for a d.c. comics film. they scored the best launch ever for the box office and the sixth biggest domestic opening weekend of all time. and again, the reviews were deplorable. >> well, you can just make that stuff on your computer. why do you need to go see that stupid movie. >> the depressing part is we'll have another ten years of comic

remakes now because of this. >> why are people -- >> i'm tired of that! >> i thought they were on the same side. >> time now for business before the bell with cnbc's sarah eisen. sarah, what are you looking at this morning? >> we just got some economic data i can share on american's income and spending. it wasn't that great. it turns out spending only rose marginally in the month of february, after being downwardly revised in the month of january. not a much brighter picture for our incomes, either. rising 0.2% during the month. not really enough to get this economy going and to get consumer spending. and what it does is it paints a picture of a mixed economic recovery. this has been the theme throughout. yes, we have some good numbers, 4.9% unemployment rate is good news. it's the lowest since the recession. but it's still very patchy, and wages aren't rising enough, and we'll get more on that later in the week. because on friday is the big jobs report for the month of march. also want to tell you about this

microsoft story. an experiment gone wrong, when it comes to artificial intelligence. microsoft was trying to learn about millennial's conversations habits online. it linked up its chat bot named te to twitter and what it got, this chatbot started spewing hate, responding to people with all sorts of anti-semitic and offensive commentary, curse words, you can imagine, total debacle. within less than a week, microsoft had apologized and t pulled the chatbot offline. >> i saw the subhead, and it said the bot became a hitler-loving sex robot. things went down pretty quickly here, huh? >> so the whole thing was designed to try to mimic behavior and pick up on conversations, so it could sort of have those conversations via robot, with millennials. but, of course, a few people conspired to get it to say really racist, hateful, inappropriate things and that was that.

i guess they'll have to go back to the drawing board on this one. >> the problem wasn't the bot, the problem -- it was us. >> we corrupted the bot. >> wow. that's unbelievable. cnbc's sara eisen, thank you so much. i think. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? windows 10 really helps us get the word out about how awesome bugs are. kids learn to be brave and curious and all kids speak the language of bug. "hey cortana, find my katydid video" oh! this is so good. (laughs) if you're trying to teach a kid about a proboscis just sketch it on the screen. i don't have a touch screen on my mac, i'm jealous of that. (laughs) you put a big bug in a kids hands and change their world view. (laughs) [alarm beeps] ♪

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superman are enemies and i heard about hitler-loving sexbots and there's the rest of us. >> i don't get those movies. never did, never will. at some point, i assume they'll go away. >> they will never go away. what did you learn? >> people forget yasser arafat's incredible run for the presidency when he gone 200 electoral college votes. it was just groundbreaking. >> i learned that bill clinton, all 63 of them, can fit into that little bird costume. >> joe? >> well, i'm with jonathan. i mean, microsoft apologizing for the hitler-loving sex robot. >> i don't know how that could happen. but, okay. >> i can't believe that would go badly. >> we're done here in washington for the day. that does it for us. but steve kornacki picks up the coverage right now.

good morning. i'm steve kornacki here in new york city, where we are following new developments related to the brussels' terror attacks. two more americans have now been confirmed dead. we have also a new appeal for information on the so-called man in white, who was seen at the airport with the two suicide bombers. all of this as a massive manhunt continues across all of europe this morning. we will have much more on all of the latest developments on that, as this hour unfolds. but first, that presidential race here in the united states, it had came into march like a lion, and it looks like it is going to go out that way, too. wisconsin, that is the next state on the primary calendar, a week from tomorrow. the candidates will milk america's dairy land for ul it's worth. three of the five remaining contenders are going to be in the state today. this morning, ted cruz is pointing the finger at