boots on the ground, dropping bombs, flying drones that are killing thousands of innocent people. >> gary johnson, the other libertarian -- >> i know you were pressed for time. thank you for getting me on. >> we just got breaking news as well. the associated press is reporting that the fbi used a mystery method to break into the san bernardino gunman's iphone without apple's help, ending that court case. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm al hunt. >> and mark halperin. >> let me give an answer for the american people. who cares, who cares what donald is tweeting late at night? >> hello from milwaukee, wisconsin, ak brew city in the badger stated. hillary clinton's campaign is

being held a week here from tomorrow. hillary clinton is speaking to wisconsinites tonight in madison, and spending a couple of days here this week. al hunt joins me in washington tonight. al, maybe brooklyn is bluffing. either way, why is the candidate working so hard in a state that she may well lose? >> mark, she really has to. the bern has a bit of momentum now and she certainly wants to slow that. neither the march 15th super tuesday primaries, they laid out with great clarity their plan. win a bunch of caucuses, go head to head, beat her in wisconsin and have a showdown in new york. it's robert e. lee june 1863. you've got to be beat the enemy on their own turf. she wants to avoid that. new york is gettysburg and she wants to get back to her inevitability in the general election.

>> my spidey sense says they may be downplaying her chances here so that if she does win even by a little bit, it will look like a big victory. i think candidate clinton, like her husband, they don't like to give up on any state. especially with general election importance. finally, i think obviously margins matter. sanders' huge wins over the weekend, win in new hampshire, they don't want another state where sanders gets not only a w, but a big w. >> i agree. i think they are more confident, actually, than they were even a week ago. i think from what i hear it's close out there. but she can't get beaten by 10 or 12 points by bernie sanders in wisconsin. >> if you take the clinton and sanders folks at their word, they say that this is going to be a sanders state. he's well organized here. the demographics lay out well for him. if you look at the history of who's done well in this primary, like jesse jackson, it should be

a sanders state, but she's here fighting for it. >> today the clinton campaign was dealt a double whammy on that old e-mail story. our former colleague reports in the "los angeles times" that federal prosecutors are setting up interviews with clinton's staff, as well as possibly clinton herself. and the "washington post" ad in 2009 when state department officials looked at clinton's wish to use her blackberry, they apparently were not told clinton's phone was tied to her private e-mail server. what's the worst case scenario for secretary clinton on the e-mail front? >> there's no indication that there's a grand jury yet. they've been welcoming her to be interviewed by the fbi for months. but i do think her aides going before the fbi is potentially problematic. you'll see reports of the interviews, maybe leaks from fbi

agents who don't like the clintons about what they said. there's the possibility that there are new facts that come into play if it happens simultaneous to sanders winning wisconsin and from her point of view worst case winning new york. if it happens within the context of those two contests and he wins them both, i think it causes the democratic party to stand up a little bit and say, wait a minute, where is this going, what are we getsing ourselves into. >> there's a lot of nervousness already, mark. james comey is a straight shooter, so i think people will have confidence in whatever he does. and talking to the few detached experts who said she displayed a reckless arrogance here, they think she has to prove intent. i don't think the story is going to be settled for at least a couple months. >> are yeah. if it keeps going on, i think the short term is a bigger problem. if she can dispatch with bernie sanders, i think democrats will do whatever they need to just to

get through the general election. and the attorney general and fbi director are considered straight shooters, but this is still a complex situation. i think sanders, while had's played down this issue, let's see what happens in the coming weeks. there's no doubt, though, that the clinton folks have spun this and that the facts already known are worse than they like to acknowledge, at least in terms of being cavalier about what she did, in terms of both secrecy and in terms of government accountability. and potential espionage. all right. april should be a busy month in new york. not just because of american psycho is finally opening on broadway. the empire state primary is april 19th. bernie sanders has been challen challenging hillary clinton to a debate. here's what seems to be brooklyn's official respse. >> i thought that was a really

interesting article this weekend in the "washington post," where the sanders campaign laid out what their strategy is going to be in this primary. they made it clear they intend to attack hillary, run a very negative campaign here. and it's our hope they don't do that. they were poll testing attack claims against her this weekend. >> what was notable this weekend wasn't so much that, but in my mind was the "washington post" talking about how they polled more testing negative attacks on hillary clinton. rushing harsher negatives now. >> don't distract -- >> it's not whether -- i think the real question is, what kind of campaign is senator sanders going to run going forward. he pumped $4 million in the weekend before march 15th. and he lost all five states on march 15th. they spent about $4 million running negative ads. >> that doesn't have anything to do with the debate, though. why not debate? >> this is a man who said he would never run a negative ad. he's now run them, and he plans

to run more. ? not a lot of direct response to the debate challenge, on a call with reporters today sanders campaign manager applied a little more pressure on team clinton. >> we hope that the clinton campaign will re lest, that they will let the people in the state that twice elected hillary clinton to be secretary, to have a debate with senator sanders. it's difficult for us to understand the motivation why they would not want that to happen, why they would want to prevent the people from new york from having that opportunity. >> after that, sanders campaign called the clinton campaign, and said sanders will campaign in the empire state primary like a brooklynite. while clinton will campaign like the former senator that she was. al, the sanders campaign clearly wants a debate in new york city. it's pretty clear to me why they

want that. will they be able to force secretary clinton to debate in the empire state somewhere before the primary? >> i think they will, mark. every day she refuses to debate is another good day for him to hammer her on it. dnc tried to rig these debates. they ought to have a debate. i really feel sorry for poor joel bennenson's virgin ears. he ought to look at the other party if he thinks this is too negative. one guy is a sleaze, the other guy's a liar, and they're arguing over whose wife wears combat boots. he hasn't seen anything yet. >> every clinton surrogate came more in sadness than anger concerning the negativity of the sanders campaign. it's fascinating to me they think they're going to be able to not only debate in new york, but it seems like they're trying to kill the debates even though they agreed to them following the new hampshire debate.

when you have a debate about debates, the side the press is for generally wins. the press would love a gotham city showdown between these two candidates. love. >> yes. no, i agree. the idea that the campaign's gotten too negative is utter nonsense. and i think republicans have had probably twice as many, three times as many debates. bernie will win, she will relent. do it sooner than later. >> or maybe let bill o'reilly be the moderator. coming up, trump, cruz and the twitter, after this. every day you read headlines about businesses being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount.

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sykes today. what was a surprise to some was the treatment he got from sykes. it was a personal feud trump's been having with ted cruz. here's a sample of that very interesting conversation. >> obviously i failed in my effort to introduce you to wisconsin in our tradition of civility and decency by getting an apology from you for heidi cruz or what you said about scott walker -- >> am i getting apology by someone who sent out a picture of my wife to everybody in -- >> as we know, that was an independent group. >> no, it wasn't. no, it wasn't. >> you want me to hold you -- >> no, no, he knew about it. is he going to apologize? is ted cruz going to apologize for sending out that picture? i thought it was very inappropriate. i do apologize. i believe in apologizing. but i think before i would think about apologizing, he owes me an apology. because what he did was wrong. again, i didn't start it. he started it. if he didn't start it, it would have never happened. nothing like this would have

ever happened. but he started it. >> just remember, we're not on -- we're not on a playground, we're running for president of the united states. >> i agree with that a hundred percent. my views are not playground views. >> hundred percent not on the play ground. the other place trump likes to make news is twitter. it turns out ted cruz doesn't care much for all that. a sentiment that he let the american people know today. >> let me give an answer for the american people. who cares. who cares what donald is tweeting late at night. we need real solutions for the real problems for this country. that's the focus of my campaign. >> al, the family feud between trump and cruz goes on. some people, i've said, it's bad for cruz. charlie sykes, the powerful milwaukee radio host, says that trump's failure to apologize is going to hurt him with wisconsin voters. who is losing right now in trump v. cruz? >> i think they're both losing,

mark. this is so unattractive. all the guardrails have come down. it used to be spouses and families were off-limits. i remember candidates in the past whose wives had real serious problems. those were never raised. but this time it doesn't matter. and for -- and i agree with charlie sykes, whom i've never met, for donald trump to go on and say he started it. it reminds me of my -- when my kids were 7 and 5 and they got in a fight and yell, he started, she started it. it's unbecoming and harmful. >> no doubt that's not a standard that a president could possibly adhere to, to say that if someone does something, that they could go and do whatever they wanted in response as long as they didn't start it. the other thing is oh-go ahead. >> go ahead, mark. >> i continue to believe that cruz is just getting way off message. he's not going to beat donald trump at this game. he just gets way off message if

this is the only thing he makes off the news, even though he's talking about other stuff, as long as he talks about this, this will dominate the headlines. >> i agree. but the key will be who wins wisconsin. because then it will be on the back burner after that. i think cruz has a shot. today john kasich campaigned in west salem, wisconsin. there is a third candidate. he's billed himself as the adult in the room and says he has a lot of things to do in his life that are more important than watching donald trump's interviews. mark, what cards does kasich really have to play other than electability? >> well, he talks all the time about how he is leading hillary clinton in head-to-head polls. there's certainly a case to make for that. i think he's going to have to break through his record in ohio, the fact that he's a governor with a high approval rating and gotten things done in his state. it seems to me he's got to talk about more than electability.

he does talk about it, but it's not breaking through very much. i'm not hearing from elites in the republican party very much from donors or members of congress saying, my goodness, this is an accomplished man. he is the right person to be president. it's got to be about governing. >> the electedability issue is real, but i agree, it doesn't much resonate. he has to hope for a break. somehow he and cruz have to conspire, collude, and i would think if i look ahead where he might do well in pennsylvania, and then what he would love to do is go head-to-head with trump in new jersey. in chris christie's state. compare his record to chris christie's record to run against trump and christie. if cruz gets out of the way and spends time in california, that might have some of the people taking notice. >> before we get there, he's got to hold his own in wisconsin or new york. he's got to show he can be in there competing for delegates. there's no reason he shouldn't

do well based on his resume, not just electability in wisconsin and new york. if he can effect lifl turn them into three-way races, i think that gives the argument to say he's going to the convention. >> yep. >> all right. op the flight from new york to milwaukee today, i was thinking, even though the affordable care act has riled up more than any other issue over the last six years or so, it has barely come up in this presidential election. maybe i was doing all that thinking because i read on that very point. al, why isn't obamacare getting more attention from the candidates on both sides of the aisle in this campaign? >> mark, what an exciting plane trip that must have been. i think you're right. it does still rile up debates, and they go through the motions. bernie does, too. the problem republicans have is they make a big deal of it. someone's been saying, what's your alternative? the minute they get to

alternative, whatever the values, or whatever value it might have, it would mean millions of people will go off the coverage rolls. that's a real problem for him. that's why it's easier to talk about repeal rather than replace. >> yeah. look, there's not one candidate left in this race that talks about a new federal program on a regular basis in a way that real people understand. ted cruz's attack plans, i haven't found a voter yet who knows about it and excited about the plan. trump has no specific plans. even kasich doesn't talk about specific plans. he talks about his record in his biography. talking about their health care plan, when it's such a complicated issue, it just isn't in the cards. as you suggested, you atake the affordable care act, you have to take about what you will replace it with. >> that's true. >> all right. taking a break now. when we come back, kelly ann conway is here again to talk on behalf of the candidate she's

supporting from a bit of a distance. ted cruz. right after this. e*trade is all about seizing opportunity. and i'd like to... cut. so i'm gonna take this opportunity to direct. thank you, we'll call you. evening, film noir, smoke, atmosphere... bob... you're a young farmhand and e*trade is your cow. milk it. e*trade is all about seizing opportunity.

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>> my pleasure. hi. >> how would you appraise ted cruz's current chances to become the republican nominee? >> they're great. we started out with 17 republican candidates, we're down to three. i would say maybe two and a half if you really look at the current delegate count. the first path for senator cruz is he could win outright. about 80%, 85% chance of doing that. plan b-plus as we call it at the pac is to go into an open contested convention, having aggregated a fair number of very respectfully high number of delegates across a swath of different states, mark, head into that convention as the odds-on favorite, given the fact that mr. trump has a whole bunch of people who would like to stop him from being the republican nominee. >> how do your superpacs plan to spend its resources over the next couple of months to help cruz become the nominee?

>> we really set the race in wisconsin. it's an important state, a great test for how hard people can swallow some of the venom on them recently. wisconsin is a test of politicking. because we've had the contests coming so fast and furiously of late, we really have missed those of us in politics have missed sort of the vigor of the retail politicking we saw all across iowa, south carolina, new hampshire. wisconsin seems to be a very good similar test for that. so at our superpac, we've put down about $800,000, all told, for wisconsin, tv, radio, digital, phone program, get out the vote program. and so we're all in for wisconsin. you see senator cruz is spending an awful lot of time there. we're trying to hub our resources for the contests coming up.

and third, mark, we have just started with a great deal of rigger, frankly, looking at the convention. we have convention experts, legal and also delegate experts at our disposal. many trying to come to us and give us that plan b-plus for july which seems like a very short time from now. >> kelly ann, it's al here. >> hi, al. >> i hate to bring this up, but is this personal exchange, this bitter personal exchange bad for your candidate in that it distracts from the issues that he wanted to run against donald trump on? is that really a distraction for ted cruz? >> it's a distraction for the voters, i agree with you. it would be a distraction for senator cruz if he continues to be in the cesspool. i think he dabbled in there to defend his wife and he should stay out of it in my view. same thing i would have told senator rubio. if you play on somebody else's turf and don't allow the voters

to hear about the issues on which they care, they're already losing. that's why i'm happy senator cruz is out there talking about issues today. but i can't fault him for defending his own honor. somebody who runs the largest pro-cruz superpac, that picture -- that ad had nothing to do with us. it's an anti-trump pac. they say, cruz knew about it, you're alleging that, a, he lied, but b, that he violated federal laws. a, cruz had to defend his own honor, condemned it the moment he saw it, and b, had to defend his wife. i think he did so quite forcefully. >> kelly ann, if you get on the issues, what issues do you think are good for your -- i mean, what are the issues you think you can score points again on donald trump? that a lot of them haven't worked so far?

>> the fact that kruds is in this race, al, not having had the two billion dollars that trump has had according to the "washington post" analysis recently, and the fact that he's still there, ted cruz is told that you're too far right, wait your turn. it's remarkable given the fact that so many other people were supposed to win. i think part of it is people do know him from his fight against obamacare. you have all these republican senators in washington who want to repeal obamacare, but only one man, ted cruz, stood on his feet for 21 hours in the well of the united states senate. i agree actually in part with your column today, al, that i personally would like to hear more about the plan to replace obamacare. ted's talking about his flat tax plan, destroying isis, and talking about not being neutral on israel. in fast standing with one of our best friends in the region. those voters who want to hear about substance in policy, and i frankly believe there are many,

there's plenty to choose from if you listen to senator cruz. >> are you're as good a fill i bester. >> green eggs and ham. >> tell me the biggest single mistake donald trump has made in the last two weeks? quickly. like in a phrase. >> sure. no ground game, no polling. the ability to have your own data and your own volunteer ground game. the late breaking voters don't go to him, they go to cruz. >> pollster said the mistake is no polling. kelly ann conway, thank you very much. whe come back, talking sanders and clinton. uh, hello geico?... yeah, i was just talking about your emergency roadside service and how it's available 24/7 and then our car overheated... what are the chances? can you send a tow truck please? uh, the location? you're not going to believe this but it's um... it's in a tree.

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welcome back. hillary clinton is speaking about supreme court nominee matter rick dpar land at the university of wisconsin. clinton is challenging senate

judiciary committee chuck grassley to hold a hearing on president obama's nominee to the supreme court. also today, merrick gar land met with joe donnelly and ben cardon on capitol hill. joining us now from new york to discuss this and more is democratic strategist harold ford, a former congressman from tennessee, and former chief of staff, the vice president al gore, democratic strategist michael feldman. welcome, gentlemen. mike, let me start with you. isn't this inside baseball, where you think the voters will think whether there's a hearing or not on a high court nominee? >> oh, i think they'll care. they'll care about who's going to fill out the supreme court. this is good primary politics for secretary clinton, in that it energizes the base and gets people focused on what's in the electi election. there's going to be a choice, whoever gets elected is going to ultimately be responsible for the makeup of the court. not just this nominee, but potentially two or three others

during the course of his or her presidency. this is good politics all the way around for her. >> harold, aren't the republicans going to come back and say when the shoe was on the other foot, hillary clinton filibustered sam alito. it's a matter of who's in the opposition and who's doing the nominating? >> they've already started some of that by citing this vick tishs biden rule. i think the vice president's come out to clarify. i think in her speech today, she lays out concerns on the progressive side of the ledger from guns to women's rights to voting rights. issues to michael's point, that will not only help during this primary season, but will help unite the party after the primary between her and senator sanders. i think the second part of this that is so critical, it creates a real problem for some of these battleground republican senate states from ohio to pennsylvania. we've already seen illinois,

senator kirk and others come forward to say perhaps we should have a hearing. i think if judge garland gets a hearing, i think it's very likely the country will say, this is the kind of model, the kind of person we'd like to see serving on the court, not hyper partisan. judge garland fits right in that mode. it will be interesting to see how it plays out in the coming months. >> mike, i know you both think hillary clinton is on a glid path here to the nomination. but not impossible, if he wins wisconsin and upsets her in new york, does the race get transformed at all, and if so, how? >> which one are you talking to? with ecan hear you. >> michael first. >> okay. look, you can paint a scenario where that becomes the case. i think the trickier thing for her is how she fends off attacks from senator sanders, and how she continues to make a primary election argument while keeping

one eye on the general election and knowing she's going to need all those strands that make up the democratic nominating process. it may be if she faces a guy like donald trump, it happens for he, but she can't depend on that. she has to be careful how she continues to march toward the nomination. i think she's in a good place. i think it's more how she does it, no the if she does it. >> mark, if that happens -- >> go ahead, i'm sorry. >> go ahead, harold. >> i think if indeed that happens, it clearly puts pressure on what has to happen here in new york. we'll have to wait and see. i do think when she gives speeches like she gave today, when she lays out a foreign policy plan, when she lays out a specific economic plan, these are things that differential yates her from senator sanders. frankly, i'm not afraid of a debate here in new york. i'm confident in my candidate. but if indeed if that happens, which i don't think will happen, but it certainly makes new york

much more important. >> her campaign argued today, congressman ford, that hillary clinton had not been forced to the left in any way by senator sanders. is that a credible position? >> she's always advocated for fairness, for every strata of the american work force, ceos, to ensure that the doors are open and the floors are clean at companies across this country. i think she's always fought for women's rights and rights of all the women and she certainly has been one who has trumpeted for a very long time, a kind of tax fairness. to are that matter, a student fairness. whenever you get in a primary -- >> she's as far left as bernie sanders or not? >> bernie sanders is a socialist, hillary clinton is not a socialist. when it comes up for the rights of progressives and every american to have a fair shot at success, be it a worker or a man or woman, she's always been

there. perhaps she's expressing it a little more aggressively than in the past. but for anyone to suggest she's moved to the left is simply not true. >> mike feldman, this campaign has been fully aired for months. yet there is a huge enthusiasm gap for hillary clinton. her negatives are very high, not as high as donald trump, but very high. what -- how does she turn any of that around now? she hasn't succeeded so far. >> first of all, this is what i was talking about earlier. she has a lot of work to do to energize the democratic base. that's part of what happens, when some of these arguments that are happening internally, turn to an external conversation, turn to a general election. and look, if the nominee is donald trump, i think a lot of that work will be done for her. in that i think people will see the choice very clearly. no matter who she faces, if the republicans go in another direction, if there's an open convention, there will be a choice in know.

that in and of itself will galvanize the democratic race in the fall. >> she's relying on the gop disarray and problems to take care of the lack of enthusiasm for her? >> no, i'm not saying that. i think that would help her. but look, al, you know this, inevitably this is the rhythm of the political process. we're at a primary election right now. there's a conversation i think ultimately a very good conversation for the democratic party going on right now. i think this primary challenge, whether it's moved her a little to the left or there's been a conversation about who stands for the values of the democratic party that are i think all that's ultimately good. but then we move into the fall. there will be a choice. big issues at stake. not just the presidency, but potentially the supreme court in the balance. i think all that comes together to produce a pretty energized general election. >> i would rather win with an unenthusiastic majority than an

enthusiastic minority. i think senator clinton is in a good spot. >> thank you both. appreciate it. when we come back, have donald trump and hillary clinton prepared response to the news of the brussels attacks last week. don't forget if you're watching us in washington, d.c., now listen to us in the nation's capital as well on the radio at bloomberg 99.1. we'll be right back. what does i? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving yourr the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®.

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the news that got the most attention, of course, was the brussels attacks. the question of national security. we explored how the two presidential front runners dealt with the aftermath of the bombings. here's a portion of what the two front-runner campaigns told us. >> when did you learn about it? what was that -- >> i received a call in the morning and then i turned on the television. >> 5:00 a.m.? >> pretty early. and i saw what happened. turned on the television. saw what happened, and said, here we go. >> you with are scheduled to do morning shows by phone. did you consult anybody about what to say? >> no. i don't have to consult. look, i speak from my heart and brain. that's what i do.

>> this morning in the midst of a huge national security story, you're on network shows, you get a call from your friend and watch national tv and say what you say? >> i say what i this i is appropriate. >> what was this meeting like? >> we did a call with hillary very early in the morning. it was me, and jake, and pedesta. jake sullivan obviously foreign policy expert. he worked to find out as much as we could through public sources. and did morning shows from there. >> so al, obviously secretary clinton prepared in a more traditional way. what to you think republican voters and general election voters will think of trump's style in dealing with such a situation? >> mark, they ought to be worried. this is about a race for the presidency. and what a president does when confronted with a crisis is he or she tries to gather all the experts, all the information they can before they react. they don't just go on instinct,

on gut. there's a lot of things to find out. is this an isolated incident, is there a threat elsewhere? and i think there should be great concern for trump's what i think is a cavalier approach to something like this. >> as you saw from our discussion with him there, he was not ambiguous. he did not try to paper it over. he said this is the way i do it. he's been talking a lot about foreign policy. he did "the new york times" interview on friday that ran over the weekend. and of course, our interview with him last week in the "washington post." i'm wondering, al, what strikes you about some of the positions had's taken and avoided taking over the last week on national security and foreign policy? >> well, i think some of them are probably popular. this idea of america first is probably popular with a number of voters. but i think he's creating a lot more problems for himself. first of all, america first, you'll recall, was the battle cry for the people who didn't

want us to enter the war against the nazis in world war ii. but he said that his model for secretary of state, the one he likes the most is george schultz. i'm sure had's horrified by what donald trump said about what -- about his unilateral foreign policy. and we'll go it on our own. i think short-term, it's appealing, long-term, i think he's created real problems for himself. >> and where do you think, al, in a general election, which of the positions he's taken, forget the stylistic stuff? do you think it would leave him vulnerable in a general election? >> again, in the simplest forms it's appealing. the effect with china would dominate asia. you can make a case that it would enhance the power for iran in the middle east. that's a case that's very credible. and i think there's a number of people who are going to -- i would expect, unless he back tracks some, that the george

schultzs, colin powells, steve hadley, are all going to come out against him. i think that probably hurts him because they're saying is this guy right to be president. >> yeah. i think if there is a general election between trump and clinton, i think you're going to see a bunch of elites from the right endorse clinton. some will sit it out, some will write them in, some will look for a third camp. but some will endorse clinton. but a way that gets a lot of attention is from the diplomats, former military, former cabinet members who say they're more comfortable with hillary clinton than donald trump. that would influence at least some voters. >> yeah, mark, i think you're right. i go back to 1980. a couple weeks before that election, jimmy carter was actually even if not a little ahead of ronald reagan. people were asking, can we see reagan as commander in chief. especially in the last debate i think he proved he was up to that task.

it's a much more dausting challenge for donald trump if he's the nominee this time. >> i don't want to overstate this and set my twitter feed on fire, but on some of the positions trump has taken in terms of nato and coming up with a new mission for it, in terms of saying america should get more in return for what it pays, in terms of rethinking america's positions in some bases around the world, i think trump will not only strike a populist court, but i don't think it's overstating trump is making this up. he's got an instinct in what the public wants, but what we need for foreign policy around the world. i don't think he's getting some comments that are thoughtful. >> i would dissent. we'll go deep inside the twin battles here in wisconsin, two primaries a week from tomorrow, right after this. 85% of men say eating right

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welcome back to milwaukee. we're here in wisconsin, re promise not to badger our next guest. okay, maybe a little. joining us now, charles franklin, professor of law and director of the marquette law school poll here. thank you for being here. >> good to be here. the old line manufacturing, and the new biotech. it's also kids, the university of wisconsin. >> right. >> and the milwaukee area, that's got all the heavy industry, and also the concentration of minority populations in the state. >> two big primaries here. it's abouten a while since the state had two big contested primaries. let's talk about the republicans first. could they imagine winning this primary? >> i imagine they could, but we've seen such a shrinkage in

the field there's a lot on the table. 31%-plus of candidates that have just recently dropped out is waiting to be picked up by the other candidates. trump has been polling in our data at 25%, and then at 30% in february. that means that there's a lot of room for everyone to move up. the question is, how much do they move up. >> we've not seen trump jump into the high 40s. >> not here. >> i'm no map genius, but if trump is at 30, that means either of the two other guys in theory could get high enough to win. >> i think that's exactly right. ted cruz was at 19% in our february poll. if he were the beneficiary of a lot of that on the table, plus late deciders, he could easily move up ahead of trump, if trump doesn't see a big surge. john kasich is further back. it would take more of an impetus for him to catch up. but it's possible he could do

it. >> charlie sykes did an extraordinary interview with trump today, probably the most talked-about things in politics today, the long interview which trump said he didn't know sykes was part of the stop trump movement. how influential is he in his advocacy against trump? is that a big deal? >> it is a big deal. and not just for him, but also for other talk radio hosts in milwaukee. >> all pretty much uniformly pro-cruz, anti-trump? >> exactly. and have been for a long time. the move to cruz is a little more recent. but the criticism of trump has been going on all year. and it really does reflect that established republican notion that people are uncomfortable to trump, and taking a while to warm up to cruz as the alternative, but in that interview you certainly saw some of the criticism that sykes and others have leveled against trump throughout the year. >> yeah.

let's switch over to the democrats. in sort of wisconsin democratic party 101, this should be a relatively good state for bernie sanders, right? >> it certainly should be. barack obama won it solidly in 2008 over clinton in the primary. it is a largely white state. and sanders has tended to do better there, with those voters. but the tricky part will be that the party is quite divided, or the state is quite divided between madison, which is a strong source of support for sanders with young voters and highly educated voteders, whereas clinton is doing much better in the milwaukee area. we have things going on in milwaukee that could boost turnout as well. we have a hot mayor's race and a hot county executive's race. >> why would that help clinton? >> it would boost turnout in the area that she's the strongest, those that consider themselves hard-core democrats and

african-americans and hispanics in the area. sanders does better with young people and independents that lean to the party. you get two different directions from these two. >> if you look at his victory in michigan, loss in ohio, loss in illinois, the economic conditions here, the demography, which is the state more like at this point? >> it's really kind of hard to tell. we've had some contraction in manufacturing recently. though nothing like what michigan went through in the great recession. from a demographic point of view, young people do play a role. you saw that in obama's success in the past. finally, we're not talking about the north and west and green bay areas. if they came in heavily for one candidate, that could tip things even with this even battle in the south. but those areas are not uniquely strong for one candidate or another.

>> donald trump's big kickoff event tomorrow is in paul ryan's hometown. is that probably purposeful and symbolic or a kind of place most republicans would go for a rally? >> i think it's definitely a well-chosen place. it's a place where the large gm manufacturing planted shut down a few years ago. it's a place that struggled to recover from the recession. though it has done pretty well recently. and it's in paul ryan's backyard and there might be some small signal there as well. >> close watcher of paul ryan, he's said things clearly mentioning trump but not calling him out the way some have, like mitt romney. what do you think ryan thinks of trump right now? >> i think he would rather he weren't the nominee, but he's been critical to an extent, but has not gone to the never trump side of things. he's playing a very, i think, experienced game on this. criticizing what needs to be criticized and keeps ryan in his

leadership role, but not going to the point of saying i can't work with this guy. >> counting votes fast or slow in wisconsin? >> pretty fast. >> that's been my experience. we'll visit with you more as the week goes on. when whe come back, who won the day? right after this. this is my retirement. retiring retired tires. and i never get tired of it. are you entirely prepared to retire?

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al from milwaukee, who won the day? >>? milwaukee, charlie sykes, the radio talk show host. >> i'll say john kasich won the day. i thought cruz and trump would sue for peace, and not let the weekend be dominated by the spat. but they both played along and there's a benefit to kasich if he has a chance here, to sneak up the middle with the two sides feuding. >> yeah. i agree. if he could finish a good second in wisconsin, that's a big thing

for him. >> thanks to al in d.c. john and i will be back tomorrow in gotham city. we'll see you then. thanks for watching. and sayonara. coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. the third man. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington on this day after easter. the republican nominee for president will either be donald trump who will win on delegates, or someone else who wins at an open convention. if it comes to it, that could be ohio governor john kasich, our guest tonight. i'm joined by presidential candidate governor john kasich of ohio. a poll shows you beating hillary clinton by 11 points in a