who do you like better, obama or trump? [ cheers and applause ] >> i dislike obama's policies more. >> i see. >> but donald -- donald is a unique individual. [ laughter ] i will say i was watching the early part of the show and if i were in my car and getting ready to reverse and saw donald in the backup camera -- [ laughter ] -- i'm not confident which pedal i'd push. >> all right. wow. willie, ted cruz getting laughs there. >> i was going to say, when ted cruz becomes the darling of the comedy late night circuit and

media, that's something. >> you know things are getting better. >> he was good on that show, though. that was relaxed ted cruz, he was funny, very good on kimmel. >> he's been human for about two days in a row. >> has he really? >> yeah, he said a couple of actually fairly warm moments for ted cruz. >> really? >> he's funny in general, though, you know in gaggles with the press and on the stump he's got a sense of humor. >> so when you're talking to him on the stump, when he's talking to you, does he say "nick!" does he do the shakespearean stuff or just kind of talk? >> just kind of talks and makes "star trek" jokes: he. he's a fun guy. >> said no one who ever knew him. good morning, it's thursday, march 31. mika in the south of france. but with us on set, veteran columnist in, vets ra -- veteras he? legendary. also writer for the "new york times" nick confessore who's

been called in the "wall street journal" disingenuous? >> and maligned. >> i think they nailed you. >> i'm a very nice person. >> also former advisor to senator rand paul and now a contributor to "time" magazine and msnbc political analyst elise jordan. in madison, wisconsin, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin and in milwaukee, senior white house correspondent chris jansing. i want to start, though, willie, i spoke to -- it's like he's got a crystal ball, right? you remember -- are you old enough to remember romper room. >> sure, oh, yeah. >> they look through that crystal ball and they say "i see will lif willie." >> of course. >> in politics, 2016, that's mark halperin. >> yes. >> and i talked to mark two or three days ago and he was getting that crystal ball thing and he goes "i feel a

separation." [ laughter ] "between cruz and trump." i said the polls say 31%/31%. he goes "i feel a separation." it felt like ted cruz was gaining momentum. boom. the marquette poll. >> a lot of people know halperin was the fill in host on "romper room" from '78 to '81. >> the mr. green jeans scandal took him off children's television forever. >> i didn't think we were going to get into that. >> the statute of limitations. let's talk about this poll. the marquette poll has ted cruz vaulting into the lead up 21 points since last month at 40%. that gives him a 10-point lead over donald trump. john kasich up 13 points to 21%. so mark halperin, donald trump was at 30 points -- percent right there a month ago in the same poll. ted cruz was down at 19 points

so when all those other people got out of the race it looks like that support swung not to donald trump but to ted cruz. >> well, look, this state is unusual for a lot of reasons in terms of trump's ability to replicate what he's done elsewhere and as i drove around the state in a buick with a ouija with board talking to folks it became pretty clear that ted cruz has organized in this state and that you've got members of the establishment, the talk radio community and others who see this as a stop trump movement. this is the norm, right? trump has not had an existential moment on his march to dominance in the nomination fight. this is a state where they understand they play a unique role. they're voting by themselves on tuesday and i think you're seeing an effort here with advertising from outside groups, local talk radio, and an electorate that's not, in many ways, made for trump with a lot of suburban women, that's setting up to be a real test for

him, a real challenge as he continues to fight to win the state, sending a lot of time here. >> mike barnicle, he's been hammered with horrific news. we'll get to last night's event. but the day before that he spent the day defending campaign manager from battery charges. >> he's got that. he's got corey lewandowski doing what? allegedly grabbing a woman, a reporter. >> we were talking yesterday about how exactly the corey lewandowski situation would play out and said in some republican primaries it would be trump being trump, defending his man no problem. but i think it was steve kornacki that talked about the problem with women, the gender -- it's not a gender gap,

it's going turn into a jengende canyon. so add on top of that the story we're getting to in a minute and insurmountable may soon be too big of a toward describe this relationship. >> i think the narrative has been set that donald trump is a misogynist and i don't think he can escape it. it's become too entrenched. this news cycle to date has been so damaging over the course of the past week. we didn't even get into heidi cruz and the allegations of the five mistresses, completely unsubstantiated with ted cruz and then corey lewandowski and now women who get abortions should be punished. so he's just -- donald trump has gone pretty medieval and people -- women certainly don't like what they are hearing. >> how does medieval play in peoria, that's the question this morning, nick? >> which peoria? on the wrong side of the tracks?

>> but he could not have picked a worse way to end a four, five, six-day run on this battle with women. >> and especially in wisconsin. look, i think wisconsin is the state that keeps hope alive for the establishment that wants to beat him. if he wins wisconsin it's game over but if he can be stopped it keeps alive the prospect of beating him and it's not a traditional purple state. it has a strong left and strong right wing. so i think it's just dumb to have gone into it with this clumsy attempt i think to reach out to conservatives by taking what seems like a liberal's caricature of a conservative's place on abortion thampl. >> that's what's painful about it. donald trump hasn't spent enough time with pro-lifers and is pandering to what they hate the most. >> this was ripped by not just

democrats but pro-lifers and conservatives. donald trump walked into a storm of criticism after this exchange with chris matthews on abortion. >> you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> well, people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say that it's a very serious problem and it's a problem that we have to decide on. is -- >> but you're for banning it. >> are you going to say put them in jail? >> i'm asking you. because you say you want to ban it. what does that mean? >> i am pro life, yes. >> how do you ban abortion? how do you do it? >> you go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps to go to illegal places. >> yeah. >> but you have to ban it. >> but the church makes their moral judgments. you running for president of the united states will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion? yes or no, as a principle?

>> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> ten cents? ten years, what? >> that i don't know. >> why not, you take positions on everything else. >> i do take positions on everything else. it's a complicated position. >> a fine, imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined and it hasn't been determined. >> wahat about the guy who get hearse pregnant? is she responsible for an abortion? >> it hasn't -- different feelings, different people. i would say no. >> okay, we're going to sift through that in just a second. but first some of the reaction to this that aired last night but it was shot in the afternoon. the clip went out and backlash was swift from all corners, including many presidential candidates. >> should women who get abortions be punished? >> of course not and donald's comments are the latest demonstration that he hasn't thought seriously about the problems facing this country that he's willing to say anything to try to get elected.

>> absolutely not. i do have exceptions for rape, insist, and life of the mother but of course women shouldn't be punished. i think donald trump will figure out a way to say he didn't say it or he was misquoted or whatever but i don't think so. >> what donald trump said today was outrageous and dangerous and, you know, i'm constantly just taken aback at the kinds of things that he advocates for. maya angelou said when someone shows you who they are, believe them. he has showed us who he is. >> women have the right to control their own bodies and they have the right to make those personal decisions themselves. but to punish a woman for having an abortion is beyond comprehension and i don't know what world this person lives in. >> donald trump united both anti-abortion rights advocates and abortion rights supporters. groups like planned parenthood and march more life alike speaking out against trump's position. >> he did say he was going to

bring america together. >> he did. and he did in the this case. >> to give you a sample, march for life, which is against abortion said "women who have chosen abortion need healing and compassion, not punishment." shortly after donald trump made the comments, he issued a statement saying this: two hours later he put out a second clarification saying: >> it's really great communicating when you're releasing statement after statement after statement to clarify what you said. >> do you think he understands the pro life position? >> not at all. i think he's trying to pander and doing it very poorly, as he

demonstrated yesterday. he doesn't know anything about any policy issue, from foreign affairs to anything domestic. that's just what this campaign has established by this point. >> well, you know, mark halperin, the fact is, for the first 60 years of his life donald trump is pro-choice and he was very comfortable speaking about a woman's right to choose when he was pro-choice. i think what we have here is somebody that doesn't have the -- a all the angles of the pro-life view point and, again, appears to have come to this decision late in life and some people would say that he is pandering to conservatives. but clearly doesn't understand what even pro-life groups want. and i'm just wondering, you stack up everything that has happened over the past week, are

we as people who have always mocked the media for saying "well, this time trump may have really done it." are you and i, mark halperin, in a position here to say the last four or five days have been so bad for the trump campaign that we actually may be seeing something that could turn this tide against him in a very significant way? >> it may be. you know, in politics we talk about information flow, what people are hearing about donald trump now in the free media and the earned media. >> by the way, he didn't have a ouija board for that answer, he had magic 8 ball and it said "maybe." [ laughter ] for "maybe." >> i'm hearing now from very smart republican operatives who have wanted donald trump to fail, who predicted for months that he would saying they feel this is different and they're buttressed by the wisconsin poll that shows him down 10. if he lose this is state by 10 or more, which is possible now, it would be his worst loss since

iowa and it will come at a time when electability is at the forefront, when you're already seeing some republicans distancing themselves from him. and when the campaign is in some turmoil. a normal campaign, if the campaign manager were arrested for battery, would be in absolute disarray and it's testament to trump's strength and this one man band that he is that he is soldiering on. he's fighting to do well this this state. he does have the northeast coming up. you look at polls in new york and pennsylvania and elsewhere, trump has good contests coming up. but this is the low point of his campaign right now in many ways. >> this is the low point of his campaign but, again, willie, he's going to home territory and a lot of northeast states where he'll be very strong and we've got a new poll that just crossed the wires speaking to that strength in the northeast. >> just got one from quinnipiac university a poll, new york's primary is april 19, new numbers trump up huge, 56%.

ted cruz at 20%, john kasich at 19% in new york. on the democratic side, hillary clinton has a 12-point lead over senator bernie sanders, 54% 42% among likely voters. this poll was taken from march 22 until tuesday. >> that's tighter than you might expect on the democratic side for a senator. so chris jansing, what can you report to us about what you are seeing and what you are hearing out of wisconsin? >> well, i think what mark said is absolutely right. there's long-time political operatives here who feel something different in the air. this is a state where republican voters are strongly pro life, it's an act i have pro-life movement here. and look at the poll. you have 10 points but also a lot of these events that we're talking about happened since this poll was taken. certainly the corey lewandowski stuff, the comments yesterday on abortion. he came into a state, he trash

talked the two most popular republicans in the state, the governor, who even though walker's, i think, approval in this marquette poll is at 42%, 43%, he's still very popular with the conservative base and paul ryan to go to his hometown and say the kinds of negative things he said about him. so the people i'm talking to here on the ground think that lead could grow for ted cruz and some see perhaps more of an opening with john kasich. they're looking at potentially record turnout here. kasich could do very well in madison, could grow numbers here. and, remember, this is a congressional district, apportionment of delegates so they're looking at the possibility that kasich could even possibly -- and maybe this is a little pie in the sky for the anti-trump forces -- but could even win more delegates. this is something that's very volatile right now and these events that we're talking about happened after these poll numbers were taken where he's already down ten points. >> and that's obviously in wisconsin that also is in the

new york pool in we showed, the quinnipiac poll. mike, as i heard the abortion comments yesterday, and it was very clear he had not thought through the abortion position and even when you talk about banning abortion, i don't hear that talk that much. what i hear is taking the issue back to the states from conservatives which is what they got three hours later but you and i have both seen bob at the rotary club and everybody likes bob and he's a good small businessman and people keep telling bob over 20 years, bob, you should run for congress. and finally bob decides he would be because he's a good old guy and he goes out there and talks about the importance of small business and less taxes and less regulations and then they always ask bob the rotarian a question. and because he's only been doing this for six months -- which

trump has been doing it for nine months on a much larger scale -- bob the rotarian says the most horrifying thing that makes you look in the paper and go "oh, my god, how could bob the rotarian be that smart in so many other areas but so damn stupid in this area?" and the reason why is because he's bob the rotarian and he picked this up as a hobby late in life. you can't pick up golf late in life. your swing is going to stuck. i'm sorry. you better have started swinging when you were eight or nine years old as a golfer. tennis is hard to pick up late in life. running for president of the united states, even tougher. even tougher than if you're bob the rotarian in your 50s deciding you're going to congress. but you haven't actually followed politics closely and there are these blind spots and they always come out and they came out yesterday for donald trump in the most horrible

national stage possible for him. >> well, let's talk about bob trump: bob trump decides to rub for the presidency of the united states and he's surrounded by people who have been doing it professionally, politicians, their entire lives. and he cleans their clock. and this adds to his already considerable ego, his already considerable sense of narcissism. >> because let me say, donald trump is not bob the rotarian. donald trump, as i think it was dan pfeiffer said, he has run both the greatest and the worst presidential campaign in modern american history. and it's true. donald trump has done things no other politician that we have ever seen can do. here's what dan said "trump is one of the best and absolute worst presidential candidates in modern political history." and donald has done it all in nine months. it's been a death-defying act that nobody on the planet could do. >> so he's up there on the stage and then it dawns on him, slowly

but surely, physically it's an exhausting process, running for president. mentally it's incredibly taxing. if you are a solo flight, which donald trump is it's doubly troubling. he's an inch deep on every issue. he threw out that maybe we should give japan nuclear weapons a couple days ago, maybe during the chris matthews things. he says so many things that are eventually, inevitably and finally boom. >> it's such an exhausting process and he's a solo act, mark halperin. he's got hope hicks that does the press stuff but you've got corey lewandowski who's been his solo act. for this week he's been distracted. and i was just thinking general hayden was on yesterday and he

was talking about advising jeb bush and saying earlier in jeb bush's campaign they had the best policy team around and jeb sat there for an entire day taking notes, listening, learning and jeb is pretty damn start on policy well before any of those smart guys and women came into the room. donald trump doesn't do that ch. and this is what we see in response. >> he's defied gravity. not just all the recently repudiated liberal positions that you couldn't imagine the republican party turning to someone who had those positions in the recent past but on these policy issues where mike suggested, he skated through with simplistic positions without depth. chris did a great job yesterday not just on this abortion question but chris has put him through his paces on substantive issues with time, mika and you did in the the town meeting as well when he has not given

detailed answers or sophisticated answers, in the past it hasn't mattered. it's mattering now for a lot of different reasons, mostly because of the microscope of wisconsin and because, again, no one has become the major party nominee without going through some challenge and the voters here and the national filter and a lot of republicans are saying now is the time to see if this guy is ready to be a general election candidate against hillary clinton and president of the united states and in the last few days he's not passing that test. >> and you know, willie, what i always tell candidates that ask me, you don't to answer every question. he kept being pushed by chris matthews. speaking of chris, i love chris but i had a book that basically was like in 2013 how the republican party could turn things around, right? i basically said on social issues, let the states take care of the social issues. now here's what we're going to do. and chris matthews, the first

ten questions "what do you think about gay marriage?" well, my book isn't about that. i'm talking about economic renewal and -- yeah, but what do you think about gay marriage? chris, i'm not here to talk about that but if i write a book about gay marriage -- gay marriage, are you for or against hit? well, chris -- so anyway, republicans need to be conservative ideologically and moderate temper. but what about gay -- >> ju just never answered it. you just don't answer if you don't want to. and i would be glad to answer about gay marriages. i think it should be up to the states but i wasn't there to talk about that so i didn't talk about it. >> but if you had decided to answer chris's question you would have known what to say. >> of course. >> donald trump was guessing when that question came up and he tossed a coin and it came up the wrong side. i hear you on bob the rotarian, i get that, the inexperience but you do have core believes. if you believe abortion is wrong

and you have held a pro-life position for much of your life you know how to express that and explain that even when you don't want to answer it. >> and that's what cruz did so masterfully. and i will tell you, i do not know as someone who is pro-life but believe the decision should be made by the state, i do not know how in your 50s or early 60s you believe partial-birth abortion should be legal and then ten years later are pro-life. i can tell you as someone who has been pro-life but who believes the decision should be made in washington, should be made in the states but just being pro life in my gut it's impossible. unless you have a religious experience on the road to damascus which i haven't mean? donald, it's impossible. how can you know what pro-life voters think. >> and this will be, as elise can tell you, exhibit a for

conservatives who say he's not a real conservative, he's making this up as he goes, he's trying to convince people he is and it's not working. >> that's why he said what he said. he's trying to convince them he's pro life and doesn't know the pro life position. >> and kudos to chris matthews on a remarkable job last night. that was great tv. >> a great town hall last night. we have a lot to get to this morning. we have republican presidential candidate governor john kasich. he also surging in that wisconsin poll, plus former governor of arkansas mike huckabee and new york city mayor bill de blasio in just a few minutes. first, let's turn to bill karins for a look at the weather. a violent night ahead? >> that tornado outside of tulsa meant business. it knocked out power to six different schools so schools are cancelled in tulsa and there were a couple homes destroyed by this tornado also. one critical injury, no fatal y fataliti fatalities. so let me take you to the concern as of now, only one tornado watch is left on the board in southern mississippi

northern louisiana. we haven't had any reports of any tornados so as far as today goes, 27 million people at risk of severe storms. this is a huge area all the way from the southern great lakes back down to new orleans. the area of greatest concern for tornados, if you have friends or family in northern mississippi, northern alabama and through tennessee make sure they know they have a tornado threat during the afternoon and evening and they'll have their safety plans set in stone. but a few of those tornados could be on the strong side and those are the most deadly. we had a lot of heavy rain around little rock yesterday, flooding was widespread, additional heavy rains today flooding into georgia. we're expecting two to four inches of rain, maybe up too six inches locally in some of those spots and the other story is the cold that's still expected to come down behind the storm. this weekend don't put away the gloves and hats and everything else. windchills monday morning in the single digits in northern new england and we're still talking about the potential for snow a little saturday and more monday

and tuesday up here in new york state into new england. so active weather as we end march and we head into april. new york city 70 degrees today. monday morning windchill will be down around 30. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ng fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. ♪ when it's go, the new choice privileges gets you there faster. and now, stay two times and you can earn a free night. book now at choicehotels.com wrely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries

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>> when i talk about trump or cruz, i'm not turning my attention to the general election as though the primary isn't still going on, but i also know how the rest of the world is hearing trump and cruz. i know how other americans are hearing them. you've got trump talking about racially profiling muslim communities. and cruz talking about policing muslim communities. i can't let that go unanswered. i'm fighting to unite our country and i don't think you wait and then take on these outrageous offensive dangerous statements. you take them on as they happen. >> that was hillary clinton in an interview last night with rachel maddow on msnbc. just in this morning, the bernie sanders campaign announced it's raised more than $39 million so far in march. >> wow. he coughed and poof.

>> $39 million. the campaign says it's aiming to surpass last month's fund-raising record of $43.5 million. >> man. >> let's look polling on the democratic side. the marquette university poll we showed you among republicans in our last block, now with democrats. bernie sanders leading hillary clinton by four points in wisconsin. 49% 45%. about within the margin of error. senator sanders performs better than clinton in head-to-head matchups in republicans with wisconsin. clinton trails john kasich by nine points, ties ted cruz and beats donald trump by ten points. bernie sanders, meanwhile, beats kasich by a couple points, cruz by 13 and donald trump by 19 points. >> chris jansing. obviously bernie sanders has been saying for quite some time that he does better than hillary clinton in most of these head-to-head matchups. that seems to be the case. he also seems to be doing fairly strongly in wisconsin. what do you hear there? >> if you look at the numbers behind the numbers, he is

killing it with young people, as he has in so many places but he's got a 71-point difference over hillary clinton when you look at voters under 30. he's leading her by something like 20 points among independents and where he really shows strength is with men. he's up 14 points. he only trails women by three percentage points. i talked to hillary clinton folks on the ground here yesterday. they're trying to play the xp stations game. they say well we just want to do better than we did in 2008. well, in 2008 she lost 58% to 40%. obviously it's not nearly that close. i think she won 10 of the states, 78 counties back then. so they're trying to down play expectations. there's obviously nervousness here. and i think they're looking at low crossover. maybe 5%. so they don't think they'll lose a lot of democrats to people who will go to the other side so it will be for bernie sanders a lot about turnout, particularly in madison. both of them, by the way, coming

back here to milwaukee for a dinner on saturday night have added that to the schedule we'll see what they have to say then but i think when you look at those numbers and see how close it is and how well he's doing with some of these demographics, not surprising he's coming back. >> mark, about the demographics, hillary clinton and women, around milwaukee, i'm told she's having difficulty around milwaukee. what does the campaign think about this? what are they saying about this internally? >> i have to say i attended an event she did in milwaukee. there were a couple hundred people there and she's having problems in this state. the campaign suggesting the public poll that shows sanders ahead not by much is off, that she's going to be beaten here and maybe badly. so you'll have both front-runners, trump and clinton, favorites for the nomination, it looks like have losses here, maybe substantial losses and have two weeks of pain before they can win anywhere and for clinton it's

particularly tough because that public poll, we talked about trump's big lead in new york. clinton's lead in new york is not very big and sanders go into his home state in a way if he has a big win in wisconsin with a kind of momentum the clintons don't want to see. she is coming back to the state but she is not competing fiercely here and sanders is and i think it will be a bad fight for her, maybe her worst night of the campaign besides new hampshire. >> willie, it's pretty staggering. you look at the blind spots of each of the front-runners. hillary clinton down 71%, 72% with young voters to bernie. unbelievable. we've talked about donald trump probably also down about 70%, maybe a little less with women voters hillary's unfavorables in the mid-50s. donald ee donald's in the mid-60s. it's -- that makes anything possible and you wonder why

there hasn't been an independent looking at a democratic nominee with unfavorables in the 50s, a republican nominee presumed in the 60s and not say this is a year an independent can be elected president. >> i don't know. maybe you can correct me there's precedent on having both front-runners, perhaps two nominees, be upside down on their favorables, this badly, too. in donald trump's case 60%. michael bloomberg looked at it, he's the guy everyone said has the money, if anyone could do it it's him, decided it wasn't worth it, he wasn't going to run against hillary clinton. i don't know if there's another person out there who could pull this off. but the closer this gets to donald trump not having delegates, the closer will this looks to chaos. i think the closer you get to someone saying hey, let's take a shot at it. still ahead on "morning joe," this -- >> mayor de blasio is very, very unhappy with me because i said we should empower law enforcement to stop radical

islamic terrorists. [ cheers and applause ] and the mayor's response is essentially "who are these terrorists of which you speak?" [ laughter ] >> actually, that's not what he said. he said it's probably not a good idea to have a religious test for police profiling. not at least if you're the united states of america. well, mayor de blasio isn't running for president but he's definitely part of the 2016 race. we'll talk to him when he comes on set in a few minutes. mayor de blasio straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ [engine revs] ♪ ♪

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we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. the d.c. metro system back in the news this morning. the chairman of the washington metro area transit authority board announced yesterday that certain rail lines -- ready for this, d.c. -- could be shut down for up to six months for repairs. this is just weeks after a cable fire caused an unprecedented 24 hour closure of the entire rail system. mayor bowser said "shutting down the metro for one day was an inconvenience. shutting it down for months at a time will have far-reaching consequences for riders and the entire region." in an unrelated announcement, "morning joe" will not be airing any shows from washington for the next foreseeable future. [ laughter ] >> i think we should take the summer off like the d.c. metro.

>> or congress. >> see you in september. >> i tried that a couple years ago, not bad, actually. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> we are competing vigorously here in the state of new york. >> we're going to stand up for the values that make new york great and make america great. >> i would hope we would have a good debate. my understanding is she would like to do it in brooklyn. i was born in brooklyn. let's do it. >> presidential candidates thinking a lot about new york and new york city's mayor bill de blasio will join us next. trolling for a gig with braindrone? can't blame you. it's a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you.

yeah that's probably safer. ok, cool.

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their religion, and turning against each other, well, this is new york and we know better. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. >> maybe it's just my upper west side bias seeping through, but i thought that was a great ad. that was a look at hillary clinton's first television ad aimed at new york voters ahead of the state's primary on april 19. with us now, democratic mayor of, no, bill de blasio, who's also supporting hillary clinton for president of the united states. of course i also claim alabama, mississippi, georgia, florida -- >> you are ecumenical. >> upstate new york. >> you're bringing all the states together. that's beautiful. >> i'm a united, not a divider. >> i've always said that. >> isn't that what the kids say on the street. >> always said that. >> let's talk about -- for one second let's take it out of politics and let's just talk about hillary clinton's ad right there. i think it's a celebration of what new york city is. especially when i think all of us have recognized new york city as post-9/11. >> right. we're very proud of what we've

done since 9/11 to come back. we're proud of the fact that people came together on 9/11 in the middle of an extraordinarily difficult moment. but we're also a beacon, we believe, to this country, to this world, of what a multicultural, multifaith society looks like. and that ad was wonderful at saying this is the way of the future and what a powerful juxtaposition against trump not just wanting to build the wall but excluding the muslim population from coming to our country. what a powerful juxtaposition against cruz saying let's patrol muslim neighborhoods. i think hillary's hit a very powerful note, especially in the last few weeks, about what kind of country we're going to be and this is going to be one of the things that uplift hearse campaign. >> you saw ted cruz's comments, though, aimed at you. >> yes. >> he suggested that you were shocked that he wanted to empower police. why would he not be empowering police if his proposal became -- >> ted cruz doesn't even

understand the security issues here. it's abundantly clear. when this first came up, i happened to be standing next to commissioner bill bratton who i think is the finest police leader in america, we were in times square in the aftermath of the brussels attack talking about the security actions we were taking to keep new york safe. by the way, we have a 500 member plus critical response command, the largest anti-terror force of any police department in the country. and we were talking about the combination of strength but also the connection to the community. >> we're also talking about muslims. talk about the muslims in the police force. >> exactly. 900 muslim americans in the nypd who protect us everyday and as commissioner bratton said, many of whom previously had done service in the american military. so commissioner bratton, you could see the anger he felt at ted cruz impugning muslim americans, including 900 members of his own police force. and the fact that it was going to take us backwards on security. what we're doing in this city is bonding with our large muslim

community. we want a strong relationship, we want a flow of information. we want young muslim meamerican to know they belong. >> mike barnicle, whether you're talking about a great coach, whether you're talking about a great church, whether you're talking about a great country, it requires that you have your football players or your congregates or your citizens to buy in they have to buy in, if a football player buys into the team he or she will sacrifice for the team and it's the same thing here. we have to have muslim americans buy into the american dream and they are. and they have. they have and they are. but they don't get noticed for it everyday and instead people like ted cruz suggesting and donald trump suggesting cutting off muslims sbrg the united stat states. >> you know the concept if you work hard, you play by the rules? here's a community working hard

and playing by the rules and then to have folks who might become president of the united states say you don't belong effectively, you should not let in, we're going to send patrols through your neighborhoods on this general suspicion. that is corrosive to any sense of belonging. i agree with joe's construct. a good cohesive society where everyone thinks they belong and has opportunity. >> with regard to bill bratton and the new york city police department. you're the mayor of a city that's the number one target for terrorists around the world. could you talk a bit about what commissioner bratton and john miller have done in terms of the intelligence communities within the new york police department that are not just located in new york and actually gave the dutch the tip on the bombers that the fbi didn't give the dutch? >> we pride ourselves after 9/11, we learned a valuable lesson that we have to protect ourselves. we have nypd detectives around the world red cross working with

law enforcement, working with national law enforcement around the world that has been terror targets we want to learn from everything they know and bring us help protect ourselves. sometimes we go information and we did pass on information about the brothers who ultimately were involved in the brussels attack. >> how did you pick it up? >> i don't want to go into details. i'll simply say this is part of what our very extensive intelligence gathering operation here in this city does. nypd protects us. there have been 20 plots directed at new york or originating in new york other the last 15 years. every single one was thwarted because the nypd has an extraordinary intelligence-gathering capacity and preventative capacity but i think where this all comes together is the notion if we're going to be secure going forward, it is a combination of that strength, having the personnel we need, having the intelligence capacity we need but also having the relationships at the community level and the trust at the community level to get information. you want parents and clergy members and community leaders to come forward when they know

something and believe that they are being trusted and respected in the process. that's how you get the information you need to keep people safe. >> as you know better than anyone at this table, mr. mayor, the concern of law enforcement right now in terms of terrorism is not somebody hijacking a plane and flying into a building but somebody coming from within a city and being inspired by isis, whether it's san bernardino or brussels or anywhere, paris. is that the concern right now in new york city as you all look at terrorism? that there could be two, three, four, ten people who have inspired what they've seen around the world and how do you approach that kind of a cell? >> i would say the concern of an organized attack not just a individual inspired, an attack of a lone swowolf is a concern. i'm concerned about that. we have a great track and great cooperation between the nypd and the fbi, etc. but the second piece of the equation, the traditional warning signal, that's where the

relationship with the community becomes important. 900 plus muslim american officers are also in their communities engendering trust and good will offering people an opportunity to talk to them. parents as we've mean? many cases in europe, parents came forward and tried to inform the authorities of a problem they're having with their own child. we want to keep those lines of communication very, very open to maximize the chance of seeing if someone is drifting that we can get there ahead of it. but it's an imperfect dynamic but it comes down to a humanication. if there's trust and communication you have the best chance of seeing the signal in time. >> mr. mayor, all politics is local so a couple quick questions. first of all, the homeless issue, what progress are you making on the homeless issue? >> we've started a powerful effort called home stat. we'll have a strong presence on the streets of this city. one part of specially trained nypd officers working with the homeless. another part homeless outreach worker so we can focus wherever there's a -- >> can i ask you this question really quickly?

when it's really cold outside, how do you get homeless people off the streets and into shelters? we've been blessed by a mild winter, actually. but in a really cold situation and you see homeless people on the streets, what can you do legally? >> two things. we have a very vigorous outreach and what we saw during the blizzard we had a few weeks back and throughout the winter is hundreds of people come in on some nights when it was cold. so make it easy to come in. but we had folks we brought in involuntarily. we have the legal right if someone is in danger to say "you're coming with us." we'll bring them to a hospital. we've done that repeatedly. we've had success with that. but the important thing to realize is there's between 3,000 and 4,000 homeless folks on the streets of the city, it's not acceptable. but they had to be engaged one by one. each one had a path to the streets, each one has to find a path back from the streets. what we're doing with this home stat program, person by person, what will get them in?

what support do they need? what connection back to their family do they need to get off the streets permanently and we'll stay on it until we reach each person. >> i have another question, i can't ask you because alex is yelling in my ear. >> is he interfering with discourse? >> yes, he is! >> we're trying to have a democracy here! >> we're trying to bring america together. alex is tearing us apart. >> making it great again, too. >> alex is building walls. >> he is. >> and what's going to pay for it? >> the mexicans. >> mayor de blasio, thank you so much. "morning joe" right back. iness s borders. these are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. these are the hands that sew the seeds of business growth, that weave the data, and find the perfect spot to thrive. these are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce.

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>> but what do you think about that? if that's the case, he misspeaks a lot. >> i think everybody in public life misspeaks. we had hillary clinton do it many times over the course of this campaign. >> but this is your guy. >> but my point is he's no different than anybody else running. when you have a microphone in front of you, you know, a lot of times a day, everyday, there are times you're going to misspeak. welcome back to "morning joe." that was chris christie talking about donald trump's statements last night in a town hall meeting with chris matthew s tht has riveted the political world. mika has the morning off, she is either in the south of france, willie, or baltimore. i get the two confused. i'm not sure. do you know? >> baltimore and nice. very similar. >> baltimore or nice. exactly. >> beach front. >> i've landed in nice before and i've accidentally asked the guy "which way to johns hopkins?" we don't know but we know we can

continue to ramble on tell i don't go -- telling you nothing at all. with us on set we have mike barnicle, nicholas confessore torn to shreds in a "wall street journal" editorial, brutal, are you doing better? >> better. >> doing better. the pain is only -- the smiley face is like a three. we have nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. in madison, wisconsin, managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin. in milwaukee, senior white house correspondent chris jansing. willie, we've got a ton to pack in we have ten pounds of news to pack into a five pound sugar bag. >> let's start where chris and mark are, marquette university law school poll, fresh has ted cruz vaulting into the lead there. he's up 21 points just since last month.

he's at 41%% right. now john kasich is up 13 points to 21%, only nine points behind donald trump. and just this morning a new quinnipiac university poll has trump up big in the state of new york 56% to 20% over senator ted cruz. 19% for governor john kasich. mark halperin, suss through those numbers. first of all, donald trump's number has held steady while everybody else has moved up. >> this poll was concluded before the corey lewandowski matter. scott walker has extraordinarily high favorable rates with republican voters so this is on both sides a state that will punish the front-runners, both hillary clinton and donald trump. and on the republican side trump still has days here to campaign but he's campaigning with some pretty stiff head winds with all

the news on the abortion thing on lewandowski, republican voters in this state are going to be looking at a different donald trump and it's going to be a test to see if he can fight back under adversity. >> mark, is this a red flag for donald trump just in the state of wisconsin wi or a national r flag? >> there's a con pollution here, the talk radio community, particularly charlie sykes, has been against him. elected officials aren't for him, the demographics aren't great for him. he dutz have the northeast coming up. he's ahead in new york. there are some specific factors but a loss will give ted cruz -- if ted cruz wins big it will give him momentum and mathematically it sets whereupon trump goes further behind the pace he needs to get to the ma jorty before the convention in cleveland. >> nick, let's talk about the math. he has to get to 1237.

with every one of these statements that are made it makes the republican party more likely to say no to trump if he gets to 1236. >> i'm hearing more and more from donors and people in washington that if he can't get to that threshold they feel more emboldened to find a way to deprive him of it and these comments on abortion give him more fuel, that he won't be a good nominee. i have to say, just imagine going back in time after that incident with michelle fields. imagine if they had simply said "i'm sorry, it was a heated moment, it was a mistake, we apologize." just imagine that. it would be a different campaign right now. l. >> joe, i've been talking to my republican sources in d.c. who say they put a chance at a contested convention at this point in time 60% to 40%. and that was before the lewandowski scandal and it was before those comments yesterday so i think there's some real concern that if donald trump is, in fact, the nominee, it will be a crisis within the party. >> i spoke to a republican yesterday who's been to every convention for the last 600

years and knows more about republican politics than i will ever know said if he doesn't come in to cleveland with 1237 he's not getting it. >> that's right. >> and, again, mark halperin, the more you have statements like this, the more you have controversies blowing up, unforced errors so to speak, the more likely it is that they just say no to him. let me ask you, though, talk about wisconsin. let's say those numbers hold, lets's say he loses to cruz by 10 or 15 points. how does that shake up the delegate race to 1237? >> he needs to perform better. every state where he gets under the mid-50s percent of the delegates he needs to get to the majority he needs to perform better then. i think people are overstating two things -- just what an impact the loss in wisconsin would have on those northeastern states, particularly new york voting. i don't think that's a given. and with all due respect to mike's source, i think people are underestimating trump's ability to win on a second or

third ballot. i don't think those chances are negligible at all given the way this delegate thing shakes out. it's not a sure thing but i don't think they're negligible. wisconsin will be important but it will be up to ted cruz and john kasich to step up in the next five days and then beyond wisconsin if trump loses and make the case affirmatively for themselves. i think they're both defined for the most part as aunt trump candidates rather than as positive candidates although they're both working to change that. >> trump made comments that sent a jolt through this campaign. in an exclusive msnbc town hall in green bay, wisconsin, trump walked into a storm of criticism after this exchange with krit matthews on abortion. >> if you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> well, people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say it's a very serious problem. and it's a problem that we have to decide on.

it's very -- >> but you're for banning it. >> are you going to say put them in jail? >> i'm asking you. you say you want to ban it. what does that mean? >> i am pro-life. >> how do you ban abortion? how do you do it? >> well, you go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places. >> yeah. >> but you have to ban it. >> but the churches make their moral judgments but you running for president of the united states will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion? yes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some. >> ten cents, ten years, what? >> that i don't know. >> why not? you take positions on everything else. >> it's a very complicated position? >> a fine? imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> what about the guy that gets her pregnant? is he responsible under the law for these abortions or is he not responsible for an abortion decision? >> it hasn't -- it hasn't --

different feelings, different people. i would say no. >> what does that sound like to you, nick? >> a guy who's actually -- was pro-choice who's trying to figure out how to sound not pro-choice. that's what. >> i think so, willie. i think he's thinking "i'm in a catholic state, i need to sound as pro-life as possible." he kept talking about the catholic church to chris math use and that was his calculation but this is a guy who's been pro-choice his entire life, who is now playing the role of a pro-life candidate and doesn't realize that even march for life and pro-life organizations that are fought to stop abortions in america for decades do not want to punish women for having an abortion. >> and those pro-life groups came out quickly and said exactly that. but watch -- contrast the other candidates who've long held these pro-life believes, how easy it is for them to answer the same question. >> should women who get abortions be punished?

>> of course not. and donald's comments today are just the latest demonstration that he hasn't thought seriously about the problems facing this country, that he's willing to say anything try to get elected. >> absolutely not. i do have exceptions for rape, insist and life of the mother but of course women shouldn't be punished. i think donald trump will probably figure out a way to say he didn't say it or he was misquoted but i don't think so. >> what donald trump said today was outrageous and dangerous and, you know, i'm constantly just taken aback at the kinds of things that he advocates for. maya angelou said when someone shows you who they are, believe them. and once again he has showed us who he is. >> women have the right to control their own bodies and they have the right to make those personal decisions themselves. but to punish a woman for having an abortion is beyond comprehension and i don't know what world this person lives s.

so after all this criticism he issued a statement. he wrote: two hours after that statement, trump put out a second clarification saying. >> . so chris jansing, not a good day for the campaign when you make a statement and then you have to put out another statement and another statement clarifying two times what you meant. >> if you're a republican running for president of the united states and you haven't thought through your position on abortion, it's a terrible day and here you have a situation with all due respect to chris christie, this did not look like a misspeak.

it looked and the people i talked to here in wisconsin it looked to them like somebody who had not thought through what he thought, what he believes. and go back in history. two of the most well-known, well-respected republicans in the pro-life movement, mike huckabee, who's going to be on, rick santorum, both have answered this question very clearly, neither of them ever suggesting that a woman should be punished. so this is a clear case of why -- here in wisconsin you look at the cross tabs of the marquette polls, in the last three months, donald trump's unfavorables have gone from 35% to 45% to 51% and i guarantee you in milwaukee conservative talk radio, which is still very influential, they are going to have a field day with this today. >> let's turn to the democratic side. new polling there as well. the same marquette university poll shows bernie sanders leading hillary clinton by four points in the state of wisconsin, 49% 45%, that's within the margin of error.

senator sanders also performs better than secretary clinton with head-to-head matchups in republicans in that state. clinton trails kasich by nine points, ties ted cruz and beats donald trump by ten points. sanders batess kasich by two, cruz by 13 and trump by 19 points. one more poll to get in, this from quinnipiac. in new york state, hillary clinton has a 12-point lead over senator bernie sanders 54% to 42% among likely voters. >> mark halperin, the new york poll. are you surprised by how close new york is, 12 points? and secondly in wisconsin you actually say you have some reporting that suggests the campaigns believe it may not be as close as that poll suggests, that bernie sanders may actually be moving away if hillary clinton. >> i think sanders has a bigger lead than that based on the reporting i've done with both campaigns and independent observers here and although hillary clinton is returning to the state over the weekend, sanders is putting in a more concerted effort, drawing much

bigger crowds and even the clinton people have conceded when he spends time on the ground in states he does well and he spent a lot of time here all over the state. new york right now is a bigger firewall for donald trump than for hillary clinton is. that -- i'm not sure her lead is even as big as it is in that poll. the clinton people have been worried for a long time about new york and she will have two weeks of pain with sanders on the ground in new york, i suspect drawing mammoth clouds, particularly in new york city. i'm not saying she'll lose new york but that will be a tough fight for her particularly if she ends up losing wisconsin badly. she's focused more on new york right now and for good prn. she needs to beat him in new york. >> kristen, we've obviously been looking at the republican race because of the craziness there. the democratic race a bit more sane, sticking to issues. but the ebb and flow in that race, bernie's huge win in new hampshire, then hillary's huge win in south carolina, then hillary seems to have the

momentum, then bernie shocks in michigan, then hillary comes back strong on march 15 then bernie comes back strong in washington state and just as everybody is saying, oh, you know, the cake is baked, it's all over then you have all of the new fbi information tumbling out and now we're looking at actually maybe two, three weeks of bad news for the clinton campaign if she gets beaten badly in wisconsin and is fighting for her life in her home state. >> you're absolutely right. the cake is definitely not baked and the race the getting for exciting than anyone anticipated when it first started. the clinton campaign has been down playing expectations in wisconsin for weeks now. they've been bracing for a potential loss there. that's why new york is so critical. a loss here would be humiliating. that's why she was here yesterday. she'll be campaigning in purchase later today. that's where she launched her senate campaign when she ran for

senate here and she's trying to say, hey, new yorkers, remember how well i did here as senator trying to remind folks of her track record. this state is critical and the clinton's campaign argument is even if sanders wins a state like wisconsin secretary clinton comes back strong in new york and california but she's got to do that, just a little math, though, to remind folks, in order for senator sanders to clinch the nomination, he would have to start winning states like new york, california, and pennsylvania by really large margins so it's still an uphill battle. >> we've talked about the two insurgent campaigns, trump campaign and the sanders campaign. both of these insurgent campaigns do really well among white people and if you look at wisconsin for -- i guess for separate reasons, if you look at wisconsin, wisconsin is the state that's almost 90% white. this is a bernie sanders state. you can look at the states where he's going to do well and

they're predominantly white. hs the official candidate of, like, norway. [ laughter ] >> it's kind of fascinating. he did well in alaska, idaho, places where the party is weak. he tends to do less well in these states where the democratic party is the dominant party in the state, where there are black and brown voters in force but new york is a little different. new york has had an experience recently this kind of insurgency candidate when -- and this margin in the poll reminds me a bit of the final margin in the gubernatorial primary that year. she said there was all this pent up energy for an alternative to the democratic establishment and andrew cuomo even though he was a guy liberal on social issues and they were angry about his economic stances, his budgets. we can see a system phenomenon with bernie sanders, i think. >> a couple more caveats across

this mark. when they come to new york, i would no longer call bernie sanders campaign an insurgent campaign. it's a legitimate full blown presidential campaign. when you look at new york state and if you look at bernie sanders from the course of this campaign, everywhere where he has been able spend a sustained period of time on the ground in the state he really moves the needle because of his crowds and because of his younger support. in new york state, go upstate, syracuse, rochester, many other cities, you have a built in audience for his message. >> the symbolism he's going to do coming out of wisconsin again assuming he wins here will be massive. he had campaign headquarters opening in brooklyn over the weekend. he didn't attend. it was just local supporters, a massive crowd. he's got a lot of celebrity endorsements that give him credit and don't have to go back to this go back to 1992 and bill clinton in the new hampshire primary. the local new york press, the

local manhattan tv stations, the tabloids, they will torture hillary clinton during these two weeks. bernie sanders will have the upper hand in earned media. he will do a lot of television. she's going to have to fight for it and if she wins the wisconsin loss will be in a rear-view mirror but it will be a fascinating two week long battle only new york could do. >> so willie if demographics is destiny, and it has been so far in this race, i said wisconsin almost 90% white. new york state 65% white. >> there's so much focus on new york city, right? >> going to make a big difference. >> 8, 9 million people in new york city but if you move upstate, i was there over the weekend, it's trump country, it's bernie sanders country, it's a totally different vote up there. but the states, idaho, utah, alaska, hawaii and washington. those are the state he is just won. so to your point, utah is a republican state, those are the kind of places he's winning.

he'll have to start somehow winning in states with diversity and he hasn't been able to do that so far. >> and secretary clinton was campaigning in harlem yesterday. that was not a mistake. she is courting african-american voters and that is the voting group that helped her win huge victories throughout the south so she's turning to that group to secure a win here. >> all right. kristen, thank you so much for being with us. >> great to be in studio. >> great to have you on set. chris jansing, we thank you so much as well for being with us in wisconsin and still ahead on "morning joe," presidential candidate and governor john kasich will be with us on set. plus one of his former rivals, mike huckabee, will join the conversation. up next, would some republicans rather lose with ted cruz than win with drauonald trump? the answer yes. but we'll try to get other people answering that question straight ahead. oh remotes, you've had it tough.

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>> i think rick perry cease the best. >> i look forward to finishing that in our next commercial break. >> with us now, bianna golodryga and michael duffy. would republicans rather lose with cruz than win with trump? >> some would i think. we're watching everybody takes sides now. i used to think a contested convention is something we get on a plane and fly to but it's unfolding now in front of our eyes. whether it's cruz or trump or staying in the rubio and john kasich camps, we still have delegates, don't forget and the shape of a contested ballot

is -- you can see how people will line up. some with ted cruz, some with kasich, a huge number for trump. rubio is keeping his powder dry. the makings of a multiballoted convention are visible. >> michael, jim comey, fbi director, hillary clinton e-mails. how directly involved on a daily or hourly basis is the fbi director in the e-mail investigation? >> everyday. and if you were running the fbi you wouldn't let anyone else handle that because it will come down in the end -- if the fbi interviews hillary clinton i suspect comey will be the one conducting the interview. it's not the kind of thing you farm out. it's too important, too critical not only to the country now the agency, the bureau. so he's doing it everyday, not as many agents on it as has been reported but plenty. and i think they're moving fast. i think we'll hear from them soon. >> you think the fbi director would personally interview secretary clinton? >> i do.

>> wow. >> i do. and don't forget, this is maybe the only person on the planet who's already investigated hillary and bill clinton before. he was on the whitewater committee 25 years ago looking at that land deal that was an investigation primarily of her and then he handled the mark rich pardon investigation 16 years ago. so this is someone who's not a stranger to the clintons. he's also investigated republicans and had battled with them as well so he's a very interesting unusual and independent person, we can be glad about that. >> michael, the economy front and center in election years. trump brought something to the forefront, though, that being global trade and how america in his opinion keeps losing and is behind. talk about what americans know about global trade and the facts or the not so many facts that donald trump brings to the table on this issue.

>> well, you know, trump -- it's a good question. trump has supercharged and kind of supersimplified the trade debate making it about whether we're winning versus losing with or foreign trading partners, particularly china, which has taken a lot of work not just from this country but others but the trade picture is more complicated. china is losing ground to some of its regional partners on the same work it lost from us. a lot of the work that was taken away from the u.s. has begun to move back in the manufacturing sector and, of course, the role currency plays in trade which is pretty complicated and not really made for campaign rallies also is playing an increasing role so i think what we're trying to do in that story this week is explain that this is a much more complicated conversation than perhaps the bumper stickers would let you believe. >> on another issue, nick confessore, you wrote a front page piece for the "new york times" called "how the gop elite lost its leaders to donald

trump." you wrote in part: that piece drawing raves from the "wall street journal" editorial page this is morning. >> that's right, the "wall street journal" page support the kind of traditional economic policy on the right and i think what this story was about that there is a chunk of voters on the right -- not all of them -- but who are in the gop who lost faith in that agenda, who began to wonder why the party kept advocating for tax cuts for wealthy people who are wealthy,

tax cuts for businesses that were thriving already and they wondered what else was in it for them and they saw their own party working with president obama on trade deals talking with him about entitlement reform and they began to wonder if there was something else. and they have felt messed with by washington and they have felt that the traditional elite economic policy has not helped them and they're open to something else. so donald trump comes out and his policies are i'm going to stop making bad trade deals, i'm going to expand social security, i'm going to stop people from coming across the border and taking your jobs and that message spoke to those people. >> and a lot of people love to look at trump's crazier comments and say if you support trump you have to be a racist in the republican party, these working class voters must be racist. i can't speak for every republican that supports donald trump but i know that you do when you talk to people in the crowds and people who are supporting trump, so much of it

is a frustration with on going economic stagflation, we say it here everyday that male wages have been on the decline in real term since 1973 and the republican party keeps talking about tax cuts for corporations, tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for capital gains, tax cuts for -- all the things that i talked about when i was in congress but guess that? if you're making $45,000, $50,000 a year, none of that is speaking to you. it's as irrelevant as saying i'm going to let people that live in simi valley flies to mars next week. it's not relevant to their lives. >> they're probably not even filing the long form so tax cuts of that kind don't matter. it's not just republicans. there are democrats and independents who find that message very appealing and really important people who haven't cared about politics or identified with any party before. that's where he's drawing his

strength. anger at the elites in media, in politics, in business and in wall street is powering his campaign. >> we're going to talk about this more in the next block. thank you so much for being with us. we'll be looking forward to the new issue of "time" magazine. bianna, stay with us if you will and still ahead we'll talk to jeffrey sachs who's advising bernie sanders on foreign policy. plus -- >> do you think you could do more white house in the white house as governor of ohio as vice president? sitting in the west wing -- >> i would be the worst vice president anybody ever had. trust me. >> let me just say, i know john kasich, i like john kasich, and john kasich is a friend of mine. he's exactly right. he'd be a terrible vice president. he sounds like he's not in for any trump/john kasich in 2016. ho governor john kasich will be with us live straight ahead to talk about why he should be the president instead. "morning joe" coming right back. every insurance policy

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>> they're hearing about a guy running for the president of the united states talking about nuclear weapons. they don't want to hear about that. >> why do we make them? >> because of the old mutually assured destruction which reagan hated. can you tell the middle east we're not using nuclear weapons. >> i would never take any of my cards off the table. >> how about europe? we won't use in the europe? >> i won't take it off the table

for anything. >> you might use in the europe? [ laughter ] >> no. >> i'm just saying -- >> i'm not taking cards off the table. >> one of the many headlines yesterday, the msnbc town hall with donald trump as chris matthews talked to him there. the republican front-runner refusing to rule out using nuclear weapons in europe, joining us now economist jeffrey sachs, he's advised bernie sanders' presidential campaign on foreign policy. >> that's a great way to start the day, huh? >> your first blush reaction to that? >> well, it's horrifying. you know, he's scaring the wits out of everybody, i think here and abroad and it's very flippant and not very serious. >> your focus has been on the democratic side, you've been very tough on hillary clinton, supporting bernie sanders, you said, referring to a "wall street journal" piece, "the journal gets it right, hillary is the war monger in this campaign, sanders is the candidate of peace." what troubles you so much about

hillary clinton? >> well, she has been the lead agent of every war that we're in and the kind of wars that have created more and more chaos and when we get glimpses of what has really happened, for example, in the two-part "new york times" story last month about libya, the president was very reluctant. the secretary of defense, robert gates we don't need another war but hillary was in there, we need war, we need to door, but it created a bloodbath that continues to this day. same in syria, same in iraq. every war she's supported and i think it's a dangerous and bad record. she's made us less safe and it was one of the poor performances of a modern secretary of state. >> when it comes to foreign policy you hear donald trump speak in admiration of russian president vladimir putin. you spent time in russia as well. what is bernie sanders' take on

russia as a partner, as an ally, as a collaborator. what would his relationship with vladimir putin look like? >> i think the idea would be to solve problems and one of the places where we need to solve problems is in syria. hillary was a lead proponent of overthrowing the government of assad that was five years ago. it was a failed cia/saudi arabia attempt that was supposed to be a few weeks and the u.s. was going to get its new government. five years later it's displaced 10 million people, hundreds of thousands of people are dead and russia and the united states have a common interest now in getting this isis horror put down and instead of what this adventurism of hillary clinton has been. and so i think he's looking for workman like relationships

around the world to solve real problems is, rather than these kinds of wars of choice that had turned out to be debacles in iraq, in syria, in libya in many, many other places. >> jeffrey, you've just described isis as a horror. what would senator sanders' position be on trying to contain or whatever with isis which poses perhaps the largest threat to our security and global security right now? how would senator sanders deal with a criminal cult who have no interest in peace? >> i think if we understand how u.s. actions in iraq and syria led the way for this horror, including an alliance we have with saudi arabia, an alliance where a huge amount of fundings with jihadists comes from wealthy saudis, we should revisit this whole prl business

of looking at what the underlying roots of terrorism has been. first, the wars of choice have opened up the space for this war, second, our allies, quote/unquote, put in a lot of money into what we would call radical jihadists and that has made it much more dangerous for us. so i think this requires an entirely new approach and unfortunately secretary of state clinton was the lead proponent of this approach of the cia and saudi arabia working together to overthrow regimes in the region. >> dr. jeffrey sachs, so much to talk about across the world. we'll have you back very soon to do the rest of us. up next, presidential john kasich will join us next.

nobody, nobody respects women more than donald trump, that i can tell you. [ cheers and applause ] nobody. and nobody will be better to women. and nobody will give greater security to our country for

women and in that case for everybody. nobody but donald trump. >> so i have two 16-year-old twin daughters and whatever i say who -- if he happened to be the nominee, i would have to tell them why i would endorse him if i did. so i -- >> you haven't figured that out yet, have you. >> i haven't. i haven't. >> you don't know what to tell him. >> i don't know what i'm going to do yet and honestly i don't think he'll be the nominee. with us on set, republican presidential candidate, governor of ohio, john kasich. john, always great to see you. >> joe, it's always good. always good. >> how is it going out there? >> if i can be president, why don't you leave this, come to washington -- imagine how much fun we'd have fixing this country? >> what would i do? >> well, what would you like to have? we could give you a cabinet -- >> i'd be terrible at whatever you'd give me. >> i think you should be a roving guy. >> i'm a rover. i like to rove. >> you'd be the sweeper.

>> big expense account, is that all right? >> well, that's what washington used and then after like a year they said no more expense accounts. but think about how much we could innovate and change everything in that town. >> nobody's talking about that, though. >> i know they're not. >> unfortunately. this has been an extraordinarily depressing -- >> i'm still surviving, i'm still here. i'm talking about it. >> it's gotten crazier by the day but let's start with the obvious news of the day, donald trump, town hall meeting last night talking about punishing women who have abortions. he backed off and said it should be left to the states, a more conventional conservative position. what do you think last night's episode shows about donald trump as a candidate? >> well, first of all, he united the pro-choice and pro-life groups which i don't know how he did that. but think about this. he said he would use nuclear weapons maybe in europe. we would leave nato. he would have a supreme court

justice that would have to investigate hillary's e-mails, that would be one of the requirements for being a justice, then he said we should destroy the geneva convention. joe, it's almost -- i don't know. the thing that you wonder about it is -- >> so why has he done so well at-to-this point, john? >> you know why, we both know. we all know. because he's tapped into a frustration and an anger that people have had about my job is not very good, it's not secure, my wages aren't going anywhere and my kids got a college education and they're living in my basement. >> we've talked about our dads in the past. your dad working class guy, my dad working class and then middle-class guy. did very well over time. would they vote for donald trump? >> my father -- no, he would not. >> would your dad look at donald trump -- >> he might have in the beginning -- >> say, wait a second, the clowns in washington have gotten

everything wrong, they got wmds in iraq wrong, they missed 9/11, they screwed things up in 2008, we keep -- things keep getting worse. >> they're frustrated about their economic status. >> there are a lot of working-class guys in the position your dad was in and my dad was in that haare looking a trump and voting for him. why is that? >> they think he is a vessel for their frustration. but when this stuff -- this is like five or six things the. i had to write down all the things that he said. >> they're still there. so how do you or how does another candidate become the vessel for that frustration? >> you know why? because frankly i'm number two in the trump voter. trump voters looked at me, they're not mad at me, that i like me. many of them. i'm like their second choice. from way back. now there's only three in. >> how do you become their first choice? >> i think continuing to let -- i need to let them know that i've been a reformer.

but, joe, you know what it is? they are still just learning who i am and i can tell them the success i brought in terms of income, security, and their kids' future. let me tell you one other thing i think is so important to know. i can walk into a room with 100 people and get them to be hopeful or i can walk into that same room with 100 people and get them so depressed that they jump into the ditch. that's what people can do about, you know, if you feed on their anxiety, then you can make them more anxious and if you feed on the possibility of hopefulness -- look at these town halls. i go to these town halls, you know, yesterday with chuck todd it was great, with anderson cooper the day before. i'm out there in milwaukee and people are cheering when i'm doing the town hall because i'm giving them a sense that it can be better again and americans want to know that tomorrow will be a better day. they -- we all know that. that's what they want but they want evidence.

so i'm not just talking, i'm telling him here's what i've done so give me a chance here. but they're finally starting to hear me. they didn't hear me, joe, for how long? five months? so five months? you go in the store, there's coke and pepsi and there's ca kasich, you're shopping and that's interesting but i don't know who he is, let's go coke. the key for me is continue to be out here so people can identify me and decide whether irate up here with the traditional brand. i'm trying to get branded now. >> i for one like an rc cola so that's a good thing for you. you've been spending time in new york? >> it's so unbelievable. >> eating pizza at howard beach in queens with knife and fork -- >> i didn't use a knife -- >> yes, you did. >> i put a fork on it and never used the fork again. >> fair enough. >> i ate a whole plate of hot sausage -- my wife said about time you've learned how to use a

utensil properly. >> let's talk about your strategy. we saw a poll this morning, donald trump is up huge in new york. >> did you see that poll? i haven't seen that but here's what i have seen, here's what i have seen, people here still don't know me but i'm gaining. let me tell you, this head to head on hillary clinton trump loses by 20. i lose by five in new york. >> new york state. >> yes, by five. they would have to spend money here to beat me. nobody has ever been competitive in the state running for president. i'm just five points down. look at michigan and north carolina? i'm beating her in all of these places and the national polls. >> that leads me to my question, is that the case you make at the convention. you conceded nobody is going to get 1237 -- >> cruz would have to get almost 90% of the remaining delegates. >> when you get it cleveland, is that your case, i'm the one that can beat hillary clinton? >> i think when you nominate somebody you're trying to pick

somebody who can win in the fall. >> correct. >> so that would be one of my points. but there's another point, delegates are very serious people. somebody like joe, if he wasn't on tv, he would be a delegate if he wasn't running for something. here's another issue. who could run the country? that's like an important thing as well. we're not picking like the president of the class, we're picking somebody to be the commander in chief and i think it's both issues, willie, i've been in a convention in 1967, delegates take it very seriously. >> you're going to go upstate and leave new york city and upstate and campaign somewhere, rochester, syracuse and somebody will stand up, i haven't had a pay raise in 14 or 15 years, my wages have remained stagnant while rich guys in manhattan are making a lot of money now today, more than they've ever made before. what are you going to do about getting me a pay raise and don't give me bs?

>> number one, we have to have a stronger economy because then people start buying more things and workers are more in demand. here's the other thing. we need to have lifelong training for people who work. there has to be lifelong where you upgrade your skills all the time. if you look at the statistics, if you have a two-year or four-year degree, you make more money than people with a simple high school diploma. the key is to get them the skills so they become valuable as a worker. that is the key to moving people today. and for tomorrow, look, i believe -- we have 190,000 job openings in ohio, 190,000. 20% of them pay more than 80,000. our schools are not preparing our young people for jobs that exist. so what we have to do, we've got to connect the skills and the education with what exists. we're not doing it today. we have to shake up the school system but it all gets back to skills because if you have skills, they've got to keep you

around and pay you more or you'll go somewhere else. there's no other great other other than that. >> john kasich, thank you so much. good luck out there. >> i need one of those -- >> be right back. thank you. ♪ ♪ for your retirement, you want to celebrate the little things, because they're big to you. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. tdmeritrade®. (two text tones) now? (text tone) excuse me. (phone tone) again? be right back. always running to the bathroom because your bladder is calling the shots? (text tone) you may have oab. enough of this. we're going to the doctor. take charge and ask your doctor about myrbetriq.

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the all-new audi a4, with apple carplay integration. >> who do you like better, obama or trump? [ applause ] >> i dislike obama's policies more. but donald -- donald is a unique individual. i will say i was watching the early part of the show and if i were in my car and getting ready to reverse and saw donald in the

backup camera, i'm not confident which pedal i would push. [ applause ] >> all right. wow, willie, ted cruz getting laughs there. >> when ted cruz has become the darling of the comedy late night circuit, that says something. >> he was good on that show. that was relaxed ted cruz. very good last night on -- >> two nights in a row. >> really? >> he's funny in general though, in gaggles with the press and stump, he has a sense of humor. >> when you're talking to him on the stump and talking to you, does he say, nick, does he do the shakes peer yan stuff. >> makes star trek jokes, fun guy. >> said no one who ever knew

him. good morning, it's thursday, march 31st. with us on set veteran -- what is he? legendary mike barnicle and political writer, been called what -- >> the lion. >> i think they nailed you. >> very nice person. >> bingo. >> former adviser to senator rand paul and contributor to "time" and msnbc political analyst, elise jordan and mark halperin and chris jansing. i want to start, willie, let's talk about i spoke to -- it's like he's got a crystal ball. are you old enough to remember rom per room? >> yeah.

>> any look through the crystal ball and they can say, i see willie -- >> of course. >> in politics, in 2016, that's mark halperin. i talked to mark two or three days ago and he's in the crystal ball thing. he goes, i feel a separation between cruz and trump. >> but the polls say it's 31-31. >> i feel a separation. he said it felt, it felt like ted cruz was gaining a lot of momentum. boom! to the marquette poll. >> a lot of people know halperin was the fill-in host on romper room, so it's appropriate. >> there was the mr. green jeans scandal that took him off television forever. >> i didn't think we were going to get into that. >> a statute of limitations has run, i think it's safe. marquette poll out of wisconsin, it has ted cruz vaulting into the lead, up 21 points since

last month. he's at 40% now. that gives him a 10-point lead over donald trul p. john kasich up to 21%. donald trump was at 30% right there a month ago in the same poll and ted cruz was down in -- at 19 points. when all of those other people got out of the race, it looks like that report swung not to donald trump but ted cruz? >> this state is unusual for a lot of reasons in terms of trump's ability to replicate what he's done elsewhere. as i drove around the state in a buick with a ouigi board, it became clear that the -- ted cruz has organized in the state and you have members of the establishment and talk radio community and others who see this as a stop trump movement. this is the norm. trump has not had an existent shal moment on his march to dominance in the fight. this is a state where they

understand they are playing a unique role. they are voting by themselves on tuesday and i think you're seeing an effort here with advertising from outside groups, local talk radio and an electorate that's not made for trump with a lot of suburban women that is setting up tore a real test and challenge as he continues to fight for the state. >> he's been hammered with horrific news. we're going to get to last night's event but the day before that he spent the day defending campaign manager from battery charges. >> well, he's got that. lewandowski has been doing that for three days now, with him allegedly grabbing a woman, a reporter. then last night. >> last night. and you -- i was talking yesterday and we were talking about exactly how corey

lewandowski situation would play out and said in some republican primaries, it would be trump being trump, defending his man, no problem. but it was steve kornacki that talked about the problem with him, the gender -- it's not a gender gap, it's going to turn into a gender canyon. as we were speaking about that yesterday, then you add on top of that, the story we're getting to in a minute. insurmountable may soon be too big of a word to describe -- >> i think the narrative has been said that donald trump is a miss oj nist, the new cycle has been so damaging over the course of the last week. you've gotten the heidi cruz, we didn't get into that and allegations of the five mistresses completely unsubstantiated with ted cruz and corey lewandowski and women who get abortions should be

punished. he's just -- donald trump has gone pretty medieval and women don't like what they are playing. >> how does medieval play in peoria? >> exactly. he could not have picked a worse way to end a four or five or six-day run on this battle with women. >> and especially in witness. i think wisconsin is the state that keeps hope alive for the establishment that wants to beat him. if he wins, it's game over. if he can be stopped, it keeps alive the prospect of beating him. it's not really atraditional purple state. it has a strong left and right wing and i think -- it's just dumb to have gone into it with this clumsy attempt i think to reach out to conservatives by taking a liberal's caricature

place on abortion. >> donald trump hasn't spent enough to understand pro-lifers and what the concerns are and panderring in the worst possible way with the worst stereo type they hate the most. >> that gets us to the next piece of sound, ripped by pro-lifers and conservatives as well. in an exclusive msnbc town hall in green bay, dop ald trump walked into a storm of criticism after this exchange with chris matthews on abortion. >> if you see abortion is a crime or murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say it's a very serious problem and it's a problem that we have to decide on. it's very -- >> you're for banning it. >> are you going to say put them in jail? >> i'm asking you. you say you want to ban it. what does that mean? >> i'm against -- i'm pro-life. >> how do you ban abortion?

>> well, you'll go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places but you have to ban it. >> but the churches made the moral judgment but you running for president of the united states will be chief executive. do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no? >> there has to be some sort of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, some form. >> ten cents, ten years? >> i don't know. >> why not? you take positions on everything else? >> i do, it's a very complicated position. >> a fine? imprisonment for young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> the is the man responsible or not responsible? >> different feelings different people, i would say no. >> we're going to sift through that in a second. it aired last night but shot in the afternoon. the clip went out and backlash

was swift from all corners, including for many presidential candidates. >> should women who get abortions be punished? >> of course not and donald's comments are the latest demonstration he hasn't thought seriously about the problems facing this country and willing to say anything to get elected. >> absolutely not. i do have exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother but women shouldn't be punished. i think donald trump will figure out a way to say he didn't is a it or was misquoted or whatever. >> it was outrageous and dangerous. and you know, i'm constantly just taken aback at the kinds of things that he advocates for. maya angelou said when someone shows you who they are, believe them. once again he showed us who they are. >> women have the right to control their own bodies and have the right to make those personal decisions themselves. but to punish a woman for having

an abortion is beyond comprehension. i don't know what world this person lives in. >> donald trump united both anti-abortion rights act vists and supporters like planned parent hood and march for life speaking out. >> he did say he was going to bring america together. >> he did it yesterday. >> to give you a sample, march for life, against abortion, said women who have chosen abortion need healing and compassion, not punishment. now shortly after trump made the comments in the town hall he did issue a statement saying this, this issue is unclear and should be put back into the states for determination. like ronald reagan, i'm pro-life with exceptions which i've outlined numerous times. two hours later trump put out a second clarification. if abortion was outlawed by congress or states, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible not the woman. he went on the woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. my position has not changed.

like ronald reagan, i'm pro-life with exceptions. >> it's really great communicates when you're releasing statement after statement after statement to clarify what you said. >> do you think he understands the pro-life position? >> not at all. i think he's trying to pander and doing it poorly. he doesn't know anything about any policy issue from foreign affairs to anything domestic. that's what this campaign has established by this -- >> you know, mark halperin, the fact is for the first 60 years of his life, donald trump was pro-choice. and he was very comfortable speaking about a woman's right to choose when he was pro-choice. i think what we have here is somebody that doesn't have all of the angles of the pro-life viewpoint and again, appears to have come to this decision late in life and some people would

say that he is pandering to conservatives but clearly doesn't understand what even pro-life groups want. i i'm wondering, you stack up everything that has happened over the past week, are we as people who have always mocked the media for saying, well, this time, trump may have really done it, are you and i mark halperin in a position to say the last four or five days have been so bad for the trump campaign that we actually may be seeing something that could turn this tide against him in a very significant way. >> it may be. you know, in politics -- talk about information flow, what people are hearing about donald trump now -- >> by the way, he didn't have a

ouja board. >> they feel this is different and they are but tresed by the poll that shows he's down ten. if he loses by ten or more it would be the worst loss since iowa and come at a time when electability is at the forefront and already seeing some republicans distancing themselves from him. but when the campaign is in some turmoil. a normal campaign, if the campaign manager were arrested for battery would be an absolute disarray. in a testament to the strength and one man band he is, he's soldiering on and keeping his schedule and fighting to do well in this state. he does have the northeast coming up. you look at polls in new york and pennsylvania and elsewhere, trump has some good contests coming up but this is -- this is the low point of his campaign right now in many ways. >> this is the low point of his campaign but again, willie, he's

going to home territory and a lot of northeast states where he's going to be very strong and we've got a new poll that just crossed the wires speaking to that strength in the northeast. >> got one from quinnipiac, new numbers, trump up huge, 56%, ted cruz at 20% and john kasich at 19% in new york. on the democratic side, hillary clinton has a 12-point lead over senator bernie sanders, 54-42 among likely voters, it was taken from march 22nd until tuesday of this week. >> that's tighter than you might expect on the democratic side for the senator. what can you report about what you're seeing and hearing out of wisconsin? >> reporter: well, i think what mark said is absolutely right, there's long time political operatives here who feel something different in the air, one this is a state where republican voters are strongly pro-life, it's an accountive

pro-life movement here. and look at the poll. you have ten points but also, a lot of these events that we're talking about happened since this poll was taken. certainly the corey lewandowski stuff and comments on abortion. he came into a state and trash talked the two most popular republicans in the state, the governor, even though walker's approval in this marquette poll is at 42, 43%, he's still very popular with the conservative base. and paul ryan, to go to his home town and say the negative things he said about him, the people i'm talking to here on the ground think that lead could even grow for ted cruz and some even see perhaps more of an opening with john kasich. looking at potentially record turnout here. kasich could do very well in madison, could grow some numbers here. this is a congressional district apportionment of delegates, they are looking at the possibility that kasich could even possibly -- maybe this is a

little pie in the sky for the anti-trump forces, could even win for delegates. this is something very volatile and the events we're talking about happened after these poll numbers were taken where he's already down ten points. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> let's check the mitch mcconnell emotion start to find out where he stands on john kasich. is he sad? is he happy? is he surprised? is he excited? or is he angry? [ applause ] >> everyone is angry. >> how do i get the app? i need the mitch mcconnell emoji -- >> did you get the update on kardashian. >> of course i did but i want the mitch mcconnell emoji app.

former arkansas governor mike huckabee, first built karins has a look at the forecast. i hear snow could be coming. >> in connecticut you'll see snow flakes over the next five to six days. severe weather started yesterday in areas and really bad storm was north of tulsa, from the tulsa airport and that's a tornado on the ground just behind the runway there. this one just on the north side of town. damaged a couple of homes severely, one person critical injury but did not see fatalities, school canceled today. to kansas, where large hail was the culprit and covered the ground. almost looks like a field of white marbles there. and finally flash flooding was a big problem last night and overnight in little rock, arkansas, not often you see a big dumpster heading downstream, probably not even supposed to be where a stream was. looks like a parking lot. heavy rain now moving into areas of alabama, this is round one, what's left from yesterday. we're going to do round two

later on today. we have 27 million people in portions of like 15 states with chances of severe weather. all the way from northern indiana down to new orleans, this area of orange, jackson to memphis and southward to northern alabama, that's the greatest risk of tornadoes today. if you have family or friends in the area, make sure they know they have a chance of seeing tornadoes later today. also flooding, 19 million people and flood watch across the same area, if it's not the tornadoes and severe weather, the possibility of heavy rain too, upwards of 4 inches in this area. how about new england? soak this up today, 70s and 60s to vermont and maine. we got a taste of winter returning. this is sunday morning, this is monday morning, windchill 10, d.c. even 29 and unfortunately stays this way right through wednesday. as joe mentioned, yes, there is a little bit of chance of snow throughout this region. we'll deal with that as we get into next week. don't put the gloves and hats and winter coats away just yet. >> this is the warmest you'll be

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i joked at the beginning, this was the first event i've ever had hosted by someone who three weeks earlier publicly called for my murder. >> that is interesting. you kind of held out until they found someone that they liked less than you. >> there you go. >> coming up, hallie jackson has been following the cruz campaign and his appearance on jimmy kimmel. joins us next from l.a. mike huckabee is known for his tough stance on abortion. we'll get his response to yesterday when "morning joe" continues.

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>> i mean, reads books. >> that's a big thing. >> he speaks in complete sentences. >> setting the bar very high. >> he actually cares about policy. >> hi, welcome back. we have mike barnicle with us and msnbc political analyst elise jordan scratching her head over the state of the republican party in 2016 wondering how it could be worse than 2012. and alex, you get to cover this up close. >> i get to, have to, i'm tasked

with it, yes. >> is yesterday -- so as you may know, we've been making fun of reporters for nine months, saying this is the end of donald trump. but we're not quite there yet, but i'm wondering if the past two or three days -- >> going to walk me over that trap -- >> i'm telling you, i'm walking with you to the edge and looking, wondering whether we have seen if not -- not saying the end of donald trump. we've seen these two or three days that could be a pivot point in this campaign. >> certainly more than any moment, maybe going back to last summer, hard to remember a time since then when it seemed like there's such a clear path for people to take him on or take him down. the timing of the calendar right now hurts him in the short term and he's up against wisconsin. not shaping up as a great state. over the medium term though, the

calendar works in his favor and maybe bails him out of a very bad situation, if he gets whipped in wisconsin, he has to suffer for two weeks twisting in the wind as we write about how he got whipped in wisconsin. >> then new york state comes. >> just a titanic margin, right, whole primary -- states are tailer made for him. >> he's not a gracious loser, a two-week lag period for donald trump is very bad. that's when he makes unforced errors, when he has more pressure on -- >> you say when he starts to make unforced errors. >> when he gets pressed on issues that he knows nothing about -- >> yeah. >> it is sort of the natural moment if he were to lose wisconsin which are built into the political marketplace at this point that we assume this will happen. but this would be a time that a normal conventional candidate

would do the campaign shake-up and can the campaign manager and say, our approach has worked so far and we need to up our game going forward. trump is not a guy willing to do those things so far but maybe this is a place he could learn. >> ronald reagan did it -- everybody forgets reagan did it after his massive win in new hampshire. got rid of john sears, considered one of the great political strategists in the republican party at the time. >> doesn't come down to when and if his supporters will ever chas tis or criticize them. there's nothing he has done wrong throughout this past nine or ten months, nothing. so wondering whether corey lewandowski scandal or ted cruz's wife scandal, or the comments on abortion, do we think it will change the minds of those so loyal to him throughout the past ten months. >> i don't know, but certainly i've been saying this for a little while, what helps in the

primary in the short run hurts him in the long run. you look again, he's had a problem with demographics. especially when it comes to hispanic voters, but now you've got the women's issue. and you look at the problems he had before, the ted cruz wife issue, rolling into the corey lewandowski issue and abortion issue, boy, that's a powerful one, two, three punch. >> it's hard to overstate the importance of the abortion issue, it's the bell that has not rung in this republican primary. i was talking to a strategist in washington, when you look at the issues his opponents have gone after him on, trump university and attacks on muslim and hispanic people, private polling shows these arish yoo yous that kill him in a general but not in a primary. the issue that hurts in a primary is really inexplicable

history on abortion, going from the most liberal position imaginable to a decision yesterday that makes folks in the pro-life movement shake their heads. >> it gets back to the 1237 now and now what happened yesterday is just one more indication that there were 15 and 16 people out there, republicans on the ballot running for the united states senate. i immediately went to people like kelly ayotte thinking what happens to her chances in her state with trump -- >> kelly ayotte, ron portman, all around. that's why every time something like this happens, what it means is 1236 sends donald trump home, that simple. >> 1237 sends him onto the general election. let's bring in from santa rosa beach, florida, former republican presidential candidate and governor of

arkansas, mike huckabee. governor, i was just in our neck of the woods last week, you're a lucky man. how are you doing this morning? >> i'm doing better than i deserve, great to be with you again. >> of course you are. that's what i love, false modesty, southern politicians do it better than anyone else. >> yes. >> i need your response, what happened last night with donald trump? i was talking before about guys about bob the row tear yan runs for congress and gets blindsided by what should be the simplest question. is that what happened to trump last night? >> he wasn't prepared for it. it's clear he had not thought through that whole idea of do you punish the woman and of course you don't. all of us who are pro-life and i can't think of anybody more pro plif than me, we've never said there is some punishment that ought to be needed out to a whom

had an abortion. saving the baby and saving the mothers and be being pro-life means you're trying to make things better, not see if you can hurt somebody. now, let me be very clear, if you listen to his answer about being pro-life and the transformation that he made from being very pro-choice to pro-life, i've heard it publicly and privately and in an intimate moment with him and i believe that is a sincere understanding as he faced this in a more personal level rather than philosophical. he did come to the view -- >> mike huckabee, what would the chance be that you or i would go from being pro-life our entire life into our early 60s to supporting partial birth abortion at 69? that's what donald trump has done. in his late 50s early 60s, he supported partial birth abortion, now suddenly, he is more pro-life than you.

have you -- where was that road to do mass can you s to damascus, i've never seen that happen. >> well, you could ask the same question, when did mitt romney suddenly go from hosting planned parenthood fundraisers in his home -- >> i did ask the same question and didn't believe it with mitt romney and don't believe it with donald trump. >> okay, you don't have to. i've listened to what he said about when a person in his family and looking at sonograms of his own children, i've heard that from prominent liberals i won't out on this show, some that would shock you, who told me when they saw sonograms of their own kids it gave them a double take and had to ask themselves, have i been wrong about this issue? why isn't anyone asking hillary clinton why at her age she still believes in late term and partial birth abortion? that's the radical view that i

really believe ought to be part of the conversation. she gets away with it. and that's the most radical view that most democrats and even most pro abortion advocates, they don't go that far. >> donald trump went that far ten years ago. >> governor huckabee articulate the pro-life position and last night donald trump was unable to. do you think he knows what the pro-life position is? >> i think he has no idea. what i find so disturbing about what he said and governor huckabee, in your defense just then, you were saying that he just hadn't thought this through. so he hasn't thought it through and first impulse is to punish women who have had abortions and that to me seems completely and anty thet cal as to what the pro-life movement is all about. >> can i interject here? >> sure. >> i have been in the arena -- joe, you have too, you've campaigned all day and been

asked a thousand questions. i don't think he was prepared. i don't think he saw that one coming. he handled it poorly. he had to walk it back and issue a statement to clarify and correct. he did. look, it was a terrible answer. nobody is going to defend what he said because the idea of we've got to have some punishment and in his answer it looked like he was fumbling around. let's be -- let's just lay that on the table. it was a mess-up. but to say he hasn't thought through the abortion issue, that's a stretch. surely had not thought through that specific question of whether or not you should enter some type of legal consequence against the woman and he should have thought it through. that was a mistake of donald trump and mistake of the stuff. >> governor, setting aside the question of donald trump's sincerity, and talking about how he was unprepared and his answer was terrible and embarrassing. does this raise really serious, maybe disqualifying questions for you about his ability to

prosecute the case you were making against hillary clinton in the fall? >> i'm very sympathetic of what it's like to be a candidate. i don't think one answer one moment is definitive. i've not endorsed donald trump or anyone else. i certainly don't want to see bernie or hillary be president. i'll support the republican nominee. everyone i'm listening to on tv, radio, all they are doing is talking about donald trump but from the perspective of the inner circles of the media and those who live in this world. you're missing something that i think -- no offense, when you dgo to the people in a public supermarket. they are not talking about the little nu aenss what a candidate said. they are scared to death they are never going to have a good

job again. their country will be invaded by those who come to terrorize america like europe has been terrorized and willing to let little things about a qui's guy's statements go by. are you going to make us better or worse or protect us or leave us vulnerable like europe? i think that's what's getting missed in this entire election. >> you think about donald trump not thinking through the question about abortion. couldn't one argue there's a pattern of not thinking things through on a wide range of topics, whether that be dealing with the crisis in the middle east and resolving the issue between israel and palestine? we're seeing this consistently time and time again whenever important issues are raised and he's asked specifics, we see this pattern of not thinking things through. >> and you and i are talking about that like that really matters.

i thought all of those issues through and i was prepared for every one of the questions you're talking about. but today i'm sitting in a chair as an unemployed excandidate talking to you about a guy -- >> you sound like ben carson right now. >> saying that's okay, let's give in. >> i'm just saying that we are living in a time when people are looking at big things and they are willing to forego things they don't consider as important as whether or not they have a job and whether they are going to be safe. and their attitude -- this is what i hear all the time. you know what, he'll surround himself with people and they'll fill in the blanks, and he's winning and i'm sitting here talking to you. >> thank you governor, mike huckabee. >> good to see you, joe. >> i don't think jeb or mike huckabee or anybody understands why they are sitting in chairs

talking to us right now because none of us did. >> i do like this idea that he was saying when i was a candidate i thought through every policy i did really seriously. when he was a candidate in 2008 one of the famous lines, i don't have foreign policy experience but did say at a holiday inn express last night. >> he also had been governor and dug in a little bit more but, yeah, it's -- >> the nukes are now trivial apparently to americans. >> let's leave from los angeles and hallie jackson. ted cruz was in l.a. to appear on jimmy kimmel and also a sign he's looking to the june 7th primary. what is the cruz campaign thinking about the tough week donald trump has had so far? >> reporter: for ted cruz this has been an opportunity to let donald trump take up headlines and you heard cruz talk about

the abortion comments. he did talk about the other things that trump has brought up like, for example, what to do about immigration, what to do about border security, take a listen here. cruz was pressed by kimmel on the idea of patrolling muslim neighborhoods, kimmel said he didn't support this and cruz reiterated his stance. >> if you look what's happened in europe, many of these attacks you can trace their roots to failed immigration policies in europe that they have let vast numbers of islamic terrorists into europe and sadly many of them are living in communities that are isolated and called no go communities where the law enforcement doesn't even go there. one of those in brussels is a community cold molenbeek, that is traced over and over again to many of the terror attacks we've seen. what happens when you don't engage, you get radicalization. >> so cruz here in california ahead of the june 7th primary talked about how important that will be. the campaign is acknowledging

what a big day that is for him. california, 172 delegates at stake. the campaign believes they will win essentially california, get more than maybe 55 or 65% of support in california. you have montana where they think they'll do well and new mexico. june 7th plb circled in red on the calendar there. he's not obviously conceding wisconsin byny means. cruz will be heading back to wisconsin, he has endorsement from governor walker. in wisconsin you're looking at cruz trying to push for a strong showing in the milwaukee suburbs and that is a place where scott walker could help him out. >> thank you so much, hallie jackson. we greatly appreciate it. mike, i have to respond to what he said on jimmy kimmel last night. we're not europe. we're not belgium. is ted cruz saying we are belgium? is ted cruz saying we are france? we have a melting pot here.

they don't there. what ted cruz is actually trying to do is apply a religious test to policing. >> and skipping over -- glossing over the fact there was a massive intelligence failure or failure to coordinate intelligence from us to the europeans to the belgians to the french to the belgians, it's more incomp tense more than anything. they say you shouldn't spoil your kids. but your grandkids? how about front row seats to the best show in town? and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade®. (patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done?

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that would have to investigate hillary's e-mails and that would be one of the requirements and then destroy the geneva convention. joe, it's almost -- i don't know, the thing you wonder -- >> why has he done so well to this point? >> because -- you know why, we both know. we all know here, because he's tapped into a frustration and an anger that people have had about my job is not very good. it's not secure. my wages are not going anywhere and my kid has got a college education and they are living in my basement. >> that was part of our conversation this morning with john kasich. we're back in a moment, going to be talking more politics on "morning joe." when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor

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you have tweeted a few things and gone on the war path and tweeted, let's be honest at real donald trump is a loser, count all of the failed businesses and see how he cheated people with scams like trump university and many started out at loser and he's a serious threat. the way i see it it's a way to make sure he ends his campaign every bit the loser he started it. but some would say --

[ applause ] >> why are you getting down in the school yard with donald trump? isn't this just name calling? >> come on. this isn't name calling, this is taking the credential he claims his running on and that is his business success and saying, no buster, we're not buying that. he is not a business success. he is a business loser -- >> all right, let's wrap things up. so what did you learn today? what should we be looking for? >> i think we're going to have to keep watching trump and women and how he's going to keep responding on this issue that's not going away. >> alex, what about you? what are you looking at? >> we've seen trump kind of become this incredible political escape artist and changes the subject every time his back is up against the wall and certainly changed the subject from corey lewandowski's arrest -- >> is that what he was doing? >> i'm not saying that. >> he has changed the topic. >> former presidential candidates now unploiped say

that focusing on specific and hot bed issues got them where the they are now. >> mike, i'll ask you, do you think maybe we have the last two or three days we may look back on and say, if he does come up short of 1237, that this might have been the time that he lost momentum? >> yes, i do believe that. i believe this shot was below the water line of the ship. it's going to take on water and might not happen over the next two or three weeks and going to hurt in wisconsin. but i think it's going to hurt him long term, perhaps fatally. what have i learned today? i'm renting a bus and all are invited. we're going to prohibition tonight -- >> there we go. >> joe's band is performing, it's a great night and great band. >> i'll pick you up at 6:15. >> we pass out cash actually and ear plugs. you don't have to worry about

it. so and he's down ten points in wisconsin right now. that -- halperin is talking about a possible blowout. >> it's what the private polling shows too, the state would always be tricky for trump because of the big vote among suburban educated voters and particularly women who like scott walker a lot. the clock is getting really low right now -- >> i've been saying marco rubio didn't have a state he could win and natural constituency, wisconsin would have been his natural constituency. >> certainly more than cruz. >> no doubt about it. >> that does it for "morning joe." stick around, steve kornacki picks up the coverage after this quick break. see you tomorrow. what do doctors from

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