that wraps it up for us. i will tell you "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. cool hand barack. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews, in washington. the president has offered a calm but tough criticism of donald trump's statement this week, on possession and use of nuclear weapons. >> what the statements you mentioned tell us, they tell us that the person who made the statements doesn't know much about foreign policy or nuclear policy or the korean peninsula or the world generally. we don't want somebody in the oval office who doesn't recognize how important that is. >> well, we know who is he talking about. one of the most eventful and

challenging weeks for donald trump in his campaign so far. the new york business leader has been understandably in damage control, when he said women who receive an abortion should receive some type of punish. opponents alike, afterwards the trump campaign issued a statement, and then another statement, then on thursday, he told "the new york times" if you answer one question incorrectly in some form or misunderstood or misspoke, it ends up being a big story. that doesn't happen with other people. that's trump talking. for those that wish to watch the entire block of wednesday's town hall dedicated to the topic of abortion rights. go to hardball.msnbc.com. if do you want to watch it now, we'll show it at the final segment of the show. we begin with trump's path forward, after a number of challenging days. katy tur is in new york, chris

jansing, joy reed also joins us. thank you all for joining us. right now, first of all, katy, who watches this guy hourly, how is he going to get beyond this week? this has not been a great week? how does he move past the defeat in wisconsin and regain his sea legs by new york, where he should win? >> i think we've asked that question any time he has run into some controversy or another. we've seen something else will come up. there will be another controversy. the thing is he is doing the sunday morning talk show circuit this weekend. he has been asked about abortion by cbs, so that's going to make that conversation last a little longer. he is not expected to do well, so that will be a blow. donald trump needs to figure out a way to get past it, regain his momentum and come in strong to new york, but i think the reality is, in order to do that, the campaign is going to probably open up yet another controversy, chris. >> let me ask you about women.

i want you to all talk about this, women and trump, numbers that are devastating among women. i keep thinking a lot of republican out there, a lot out there, who may have different views on abortion rights, than even their husbands have. a new gallop tracking poll, 70% have an unfavorable opinion of him. >> how he tries to bridge that gap in a general election. right now, the campaign isn't acknowledging that they have a problem. instead, what they're doing is saying that he is won women in the past. they believe that he is going to be able to speak directly to women, as they go on. if they get to the general election, if they get this nomination, they thiwill be ablo speak to each woman. the issue, a daunting number. when they deal with it if he in fact the nominee, they've

admitted it is a huge problem, one that could put hillary clinton until the white house, it worries them about what they're going to try to do to mitigate it is to target older white women who have liked donald trump's message and just try to mitigate the damage they've done with younger women. they're also trying to appeal to white men in large numbers. white men that could potentially be democrats or independents, and they're hoping that the number of men coming in from outside of the party will mitigate the damage they're doing with women, mitigate the damage with minties, and left them to wins in states that they wouldn't have won in. colorado, pennsylvania, states that have traditionally gone to democrats. they believe they can win those over in the fall. but it's unclear if that is going to be the case. a lot of polling out there that shows that donald trump, if he is facing off against hillary clinton, would lose in a landslide in the electoral college. >> let me go to chris jansing.

chris, you know, a couple of times in the midwest, candidates won for the united states senate, not because they were fantastic, although some of them were good, their opponents said stupid things about rape and things like that, and they were able to cruise into office. hillary clinton might be thinking right now, if i run a regular campaign, not especially this auguy will hand it to me. >> i just talked to somebody in the clinton campaign who said to me when you have unfavorables with women, nationally that are above 70%, there is nothing you can do. there is absolutely nothing you can do but try to -- you can't balance that out with white men. you have to win 90, 95% of the men who vote. he is going to have to do some sort of major change. we're not seeing it here in wisconsin. i have been talking to a

lobbyist, he says he is seeing here for example, it's in the high 70s, but it's interesting, chris. your conversation with donald trump on abortion, for example, the argument has been made by several republican insiders here that it was two levels bad against trump. it was bad on its face, because people didn't like the message was bad. but it furthers put a cherry on top of a belief here that he does not have depth on the issue. it's why a lot of business people that i talked to feel that they made them nervous. a couple of them brought up the nuclear issue. i think in a weird way, you know, what the president talked about today, criticizing trump and the criticism we've heard from him on abortion, it goes to depth. those are the kinds of issues that are going to be trouble for him with women, with men, across demographics. >> joy, respond to this. the "washington post" looks at

his polling and point today red flags. his negatives are huge among moderates, young people, hispanics, white evangelical pr protestant. he would start the general election campaign as the least popular candidate to represent either party in modern times. but it might not be too late to stop him and according to the new york times that is scaring many of the republican party right now. quote, republicans who once worried that mr. trump might gain overwhelming momentum, are now becoming -- that mr. trump might become i love this phrase, zombie candidate, damaged beyond the point of repair, but too late for any of his rivals to stop him. headline writer came up with that phrase. all the tv shows i don't like to watch about zombies, crashing into the village or whatever, coming across the horizon scaring the hell out of the

people. >> the walking dead happens to be my favorite show. >> oh, my god. you and have i go the to compare taste buds here. >> it's a great show. so i think the zombie candidate is really true. you look at the groups you cited, so much trouble with. donald trump when he first started out one of the things you would hear republican consultants say is he might actually be able to expand the base because more moderate and former democrats who really aren't lowering the tax rate could gravitate to him. why he is doing so badly in wisconsin, 22.5% white v evangelicals, tailor made for ted cruz any way. women with his comments about, you know, everything from the bullying of a white woman

reporter, to his feud with megyn kelly, he has spent zero time movement conservativism, for like 40 years, the doctrine is you don't make the sub text of the anti-abortion into text. you don't take it to its logical conclusion, you know, other than richard murdock and akin, some of these guys that make a mistake, you're not supposed to give away the game that you want to criminalize abortion. well, he hasn't studied enough conservativism. so he winds up in this territory. he is as offensive to movement conservatives as he is to moderates. he is almost a guy without a country. the one small part he has, working class white men for the most part, are with him to the end. when you get to new york, they only have less than 10% white

evangelical protestant. he could still win new york. >> going at trump in his usual sarcastic way, the wonderful condescending way of chuckling in his cheek, have you noticed that, the old press club thing, making fun of him, like he is a tv barker, the way he did it, will trump respond to that, come back at obama and knock him off again. >> it has been in the past, but i'm not sure if he is going to be doing that. i mean, the next time we're going to see him in the public is tomorrow. potentially, he could lash out against the president, but lately, he hasn't really done so. obama has come out a few times and really trashed, if you will, donald trump, his candidacy. but trump has not responded in every circumstance. listen, when it comes to his base, this is exactly the stuff they like. this is red meat for them. they don't like the president, they don't like hillary clinton, they're generally not democrats,

and for they are, they're disillusion disillusioned. treats the candidacy as if it's a joke, they like donald trump even more, because they don't like the establishment pushing back. they don't like the idea of people in authority pushing back against their candidate. they take it personally. they believe donald trump is fighting for them. but when is going to be able to maintain that support on top of all of the controversies that are escalating as we go on, he is only going to face tougher questioning when it comes to policy if we get into the general election. a debate against hillary clinton, but she has depth when it comes to policy and knows what she is talking about generally because she has held office so long, part of the state department, daily briefed by her staff. she has a large staff of people making sure she is on top of the issues. she has been in politics for decades. donald trump no, sir have that depth. if his supporters stick with him, they're going to stick with

him because they like he is not a politician and that he stumbles on things. >> as the weekend progresses, we'll be following, the word for moderate republicans, pro-choice republicans. they're not going to like his comment about punishment, i don't think any kind of republican, except perhaps the crazy far right, not many of them, i mean criazy, don't like the itchy trigger finger when it comes to nuclear weapons. thank you. coming up, a forceful president obama weekend press conference, touts progress made in the nuclear security area. if donald trump takes office, could we see it undone, breaking the relationships in north asia, europe and the middle east. the primary, two days away, heating up with bernie sanders and hillary clinton. kans can sanders pull off i victory, and can they pull it off in new

york. wednesday's town hall, coming up, the whole block, this is "hardball," the place for politics. is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. he is.rrible at golf. people say i'm getting better. no one's ever said that. but i'd like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. he's just happier when he's playing. but he's terrible. for the strength and energy to keep doing what you love, try new ensure enlive. only patented ensure enlive has hmb, plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. and its clinically proven formula helps you stay you.

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test. president obama spoke about the proliferation of nuclear materials at the conclusion of a two day nuclear summit in washington, where leaders of 50

countries addressed the threat of nuclear terrorism. it came as donald trump seemed open to abandoning this country's policy on the spread of nuclear weapons. on tuesday of this week, trump said he would be open to allowing countries like jam pan, the only country that suffer a nuclear attack, south korea and saudi arabia mass destructions, nuclear weapons. let's watch. >> it's been a u.s. policy, though, for decades. >> it may be a policy. can i be honest. maybe it will be time to change. pakistan, china has it. >> so you have no problems with japan having nuclear weapons? >> at some point, we have to say you know what, we're better after if japan presents itself against this maniac in north korea. if south korea will start protecting itself. >> saudi a rarabiaarabia.

>> it's going to happen any way. china, pakistan, russia, you have so many countries, right now that have them. >> well, on this friday evening, president obama was asked about trump's statements. here is what he said. >> what the statements you mentioned tell us, they tell us that the person who made the statements doesn't know much about foreign policy or nuclear policy or the korean peninsula or the world generally. our alliance with japan and the republican of korea is one of the foundations. one of the cornerstones of our presence in the asia pacific region. it is underwritten, peace and prosperity of that region and it has prevented the possibilities of a nuclear escalation and conflict between countries that in the past and throughout

history have been engaged in hugely d hugely destructive conflicts and controversies. so you don't mess with that. we don't want somebody in the oval office who doesn't recognize how important that is. >> our "hardball" town hall on wednesday, he also refused to rule out the use of nuclear weapons in the middle east, even in europe. >> i was against iraq, i would be the last one to use the nuclear weapons. >> can you tell the middle east we're not going to use them. >> i would never say that. i won't take my cards off the table. >> how about europe? >> i can't say that. >> you might use it in europe. >> i'm just saying. >> i'm not taking cards off the table. >> joined by joe cicione, valerie plane, who worked to

prevent the nuclear materials with her time with the agency. howa howard fineman, i want to start with joe. i'll start with valerie. how does this strike you. you've spent your time in the cia and actually monitoring any danger, fatalistic that japan, the only country in the world suffer a nuclear blast in hiroshima, some day get a nuclear program, south korea bouncing off north korea, . >> hi, chris, thanks for having me on. unbelievable to hir his statements on this. he is just clearly has given no thought whatsoever. his policy of winging it is really catching up with him. it's not working. when he finally released his

list of foreign policy advisors, it wasn't va rmplvarsity. it's going to happen any way, that's exactly the wrong stance to take. this nuclear security summit, the president obama has convened pulling together over 50 world leaders to say we have to do something about this. and they've made progress. it is significant. but i have to say, with 15,000 nuclear weapons still in the world, we still have a ways to go. >> you know, joe, he said that during the course of the meeting today with the 50 countries, they came to talk about the possible horror of more proliferation, discussions on the sidelines. what do you think those discussions were like today among world leader whose came to prevent happening what trump seems a little more less interested in stopping happening? >> well, as president obama said

today, countries around the world care what we think. they pay attention to our elections. it is unnerving to see the presumptive nominee for the republican party saying things like this. overturning 70 years of by partisans national security strategy. every president since harry truman has tried to stopped. we've never encouraged it. not israel, not great britain. so to hear trump saying these things, talking about nuclear use, is unnerving. i'm sure president obama had his hands full trying to reassure our allies, that we're not spiralling out of control. >> i've argued with people not knowing something isn't a statement of a lack of intelligence. people can know a lot about certain things. i listen to all night radio, talking about sports. jimmy rollins latest contract,

the third string quarterback. i think trump knows a lot about building buildings on fifth avenue. he is a smart guy. there are areas in which you haven't given much thought. we talked about abortion rights, not used to talking about them in a political aspect. not taking it off the table. that phrase has been used most frequently, i'm not taking it off the table, putting ground troops in the middle east, but here he was using the same phrase about nuclear weapons, not taking it off the table. bell, you know, it's table stakes. if it's on the table, you might just use it. that's the problem. >> i'm going to guess he knows more about the different levels of bathroom fixtures for hotels than he knows about nuclear issues. that's the way -- >> the percentage take in -- >> construction unions in new york. >> the mob, dealing with the

mob. >> this is a classic and dangerous lack of knowledge by a man who claims wants to be the president of the united states, sit in that bidding behind you right there. >> why didn't he do a murder board on it? >> he doesn't do a murder board on anything. he is his own murder board he says. he talks to him he have. i could tell you as my role as global editorial director, i was working the sidelines, and i talked to a top member of the communist leadership, he was with the delegate. >> which. >> china. the chinese are looking at donald trump with a mixture of amusement and horror. >> i've got to go back to valerie. what do you think the people, c.i.a., hearing discussions by don't want to take nuclear weapons off the table, oh, maybe japan will have a weapon, we'll live with it. >> probably the same reaction as the high ranking communist

leader. amusement and horror at the same time. it's frightening. across the board with the presidential nominees, we're not seeing enough discussion of this truly extensional issues. tens of thousands of college students, all for free college education, great, and health care. they only have the vaguest notion that perhaps to end world war ii, we dropped a bomb on japan. is there a huge gap of knowledge. >> that's figrightening. >> if you don't get it right, none of the other ones matter. >> we're the only country to ever do it. the rest of the world has its ears picked up thank you, howard, thank you, joe, and thank you, valerie. good to see you again, valerie. getting testy with bernie sanders and hillary clinton, heating up as the campaigns head to wisconsin and new york,

coming up two weeks from tuesday, the big apple for both of them. by the way, they're both new yorkers in very different ways. this is "hardball," the place for politics. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed. well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. this cit added this other level of clean to it. it just kinda like wiped everything clean. my teeth are glowing. they are so white. i actually really like the two steps. everytime i use this together it felt like good to see you again, valerie.

for politics. i'm m am milis

classes canceled in chicago, protesting education cuts. chicago is the third largest school system. tesla has received orders for the new car, $35,000. knife turned over in california from o.j. simpson's former estate has been ruled out as a murder weapon in nicole brown simpson and her friend, ronald goldman. back to "hardball." i kind of think if you're

going to get paid $250,000 for a speech, it must be a brilliant speech. it must be an earth shattering speech. written in shakespearian, and if that speech is so great, i think the american people have the right to hear it. >> well, that's the great bernie sanders. welcome back to "hardball," taking on hillary clinton over her paid speeches to a crowd of over 18,000 people this thursday, actually, this thursday in the bronx. things are really heating up and the democrats fighting for the nomination again. hillary clinton campaigning in purchase, new york, she was interrupted by protesters

supporting bernie sanders, chantsing if she wins, we lose. that's an old line. >> they've always said yes. oh, i know, the bernie people came to say that. sorry, you're leaving. >> i have earned 9 million votes in this election. already. i have 1 million nmore votes thn donald trump, and 2.5 million more than bernie sanders. >> when questioned over campaign donations by a greenpeace activist while working the rope line, she snapped at the young woman. well, following that

exchange, sanders campaign released a staple, the truth is, she has relied it heavily on funds working for the oil and gas industry. according to an analysis by green peerks 58 oil and gas lobbyists have contributed to her campaign. the money in question is from individuals who work for those companies, by the same metric bernie sanders has taken more than $50,000 on his campaign from individuals working for oil and gas companies. clearance page a columnist for the chicago tribune and an garren. ann, you're going to have to explain this, exploited, took advantage of donald trump's comments for women choosing to have an abortion, and turned it against bernie. >> yeah, so both clinton and sanders expressed outrage at what trump had said. but the way sanders did it was to say that's awful, and now can we get back to talking about income and quality basically. he said it is a distraction,

over trump's comments, it was a distraction what he called the serious issues. that just gave hillary clinton a gigantic opening. i mean, you could -- >> women's rights are germane to this debate. >> i mean, she actually did it very, you know, subtle and quiet, unlike the rope line interaction with the greenpeace activist when you saw her shaking her finger and really getting angry. she simply said i think women's right to choose is a serious issue. and that is -- that's the zone where she is actually trying to operate here. but you can see in that greenpeace interaction and in a couple of other things that have happened this week, the way that the sanders supporters and sanders himself are getting under her skin. they've got two and a half weeks to go. >> one guy has a stick, the other guy has a knife. >> point your weapon. >> her weapon against him is he

take positions on gun rights that don't fit with the liberal aggressive agenda, and women, part of her cand her right to c. >> right. >> always on ideology, in bed with the big people, goldman sachs, always ideological, and she is not comfortable with that. >> it works for him. look at his followers, all of us who have kids or young adult kids, whatever, they are much more, black, white, idealistic about this sort of thing, all the ethical questions around hillary clinton, trouble the young folks a lot. >> the money they owe, that's a big part. >> ex right. >> it's easy to go to a young person, how much do you owe, i don't like being a debtor. >> the argument on that, the bernie sanders college plan, free college pie in a sky,

ridiculous. >> that's not what -- >> it is not what kids think. which would you rather have? >> i would listen to somebody, it's a lot like the vietnam war, mccarthy comes along and says we're going to get rid of the war. >> bernie doesn't have a platform, he has a laundry list, a wish list. its not going to cost us anything. young people lover that. old people say who is going to play the bills. hillary clinton deals with the details. they've seen her drugle for over 20 years now, here in around e and around washington against these various right wing -- >> what about anybody over 30, he is pushing 75. >> we all got over 30. it's heartwarming to see a guy over 70 years old. that's wonderful. >> i'm old too. he has a tony bennett kind of

thing. >> a classic. >> that's an understatement. as tony bennett is. thank you clarence, thank you ann. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largt animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas iour care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest standard of care available anywhere. and guests can come to see them simply

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isil has already used chemical weapons, includimustarn syria and iraq, if they ever got their hands on eye nuclear material, they most certainly will use it to kill as many innocent people as possible. >> welcome back to lard baush s "hardball," as he addressed more than 50 global leaders at a

summit today. the event followed the deadly attack in brussels that left more than 30 dead and hundreds injured and has nbc reported, some of the suspects had tracked the movement of a scientist in belgium. howard fineman is back, msnbc political analyst, tara malar is a former cia analyst who should have better pronunciation, and shane, you first, how did you cool hand barack thing, but he used trump's unfamiliarity with the nature of the nuclear discussion? >> i'm sure he has been dying to say it, because trump has no familiarity with the nuclear discussion. i think this was an important moment for the president to point out the differences that he sees between him and candidate trump for sure. and it was an appropriate place to i think do it, considering

this is what the whole thing the summit has been about, emphasize what the united states has been doing as a leader in this area. look, you haven't studied the issues here, trump. >> tara, what it reminded me of, trump is good at saying you can walkway from any deal. these are deals that have kept peace in asia, europe, he takes that attitude, i can walk if i have to. >> it demonstrates no understanding of historical histories, long nuclear proliferation. >> certain countries don't want to have nuclear weapons. it demonstrates no understanding of the international context in which he is discussing some of these issues, and whyou look at the types of strategies he wants to use to face terrorism, it shows know understanding of the international state or international.

>> how would you like to die? you don't like many countries with buttons. pakistan is dangerous enough. you don't want any more getting a nuclear button. >> intersection of nuclear policy and politics in america. it's one thing for donald trump to in the republican primary campaign to squash marco rubio or chris christie or whatever. and play that child game there. >> little marco. >> what he doesn't realize is every president since john f. kennedy has gone to the congress oreg or gone to the american people, prevent nuclear weapons. >> including ronald reagan. your producer, put together a historical set of clips that i just watched. kennedy, johnson, nixon, carter, reagan, clinton, obama, every -- george w. bush, every single one of them committed deeply and strove on nonproliferation.

can't throw that out on a whim with no answer. >> why does donald trump lack that intuition, do no harm, make sure there is no lnuclear. >> willing to use tactical nuclear weapons against isis. i was actually talking to a trump advisor this week, trying to make the case, that well, tactical nuclear weapons, they're different. >> how are they? hundreds p kilo tons. >> there is also just no understanding. he seems to think the bigger talk you have, this will make your enemies fear you more. in international statements, that gress sieve provocative rhetoric, it can create spirals aggressive behavior between states. what he is doing is provoking people to take actions, both international actors, terrorist groups. >> why do we want saudi arabia

having a nuclear weapon any more than we would want iran to have one. >> we don't. what tara is saying, he is spelling out a recipe for proliferation. this was about countering that. >> barry goldwater, before your time, lost an election. >> this goes beyond the question of nuclear power. it goes to donald trump's judgment, which believe it or not, believe are now going to judge, because we're getting close to nominating season. >> moderate republicans paying attention. >> yes, sir. >> men and women who are republicans, pro-choice and very much antiwar in many ways. thank you. at least nuclear war. round table has been great. tara malar, just like norman, it's my eyes. thank you very much, shane harris, howard, of course, my friend. "hardball" back after this. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by

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welcome back to "hardball." you want to stay tuned to msnbc, for a special documentary on the threat of terrorism. my colleague, lawrence o'donnell, isis and the internet. let's take a look. >> jihadist groups, recruitment, pulling young people to their cause. in the 1990s, mubin shake, a young muslim growing up in toronto. >> i am a young kid, i am 14, 15 years old. i'm not doing so well in school. i keep telling myself that, you know, i can't be a good muslim living in this infadel society.

i can't get a normal job, i might have a jew or woman, and i can't lower myself and attracted to the cause of jihad, she watched the earliest videos like this and saw how they progressed. >> for somebody growing up in the west the appeal to the concept of jihad, it really comes down to the deficit of heroes that exist in the muslim world. these militants, they're seen as heroes. heroes that will save the muslims from oppression. >> for these videos, the main recruiting technique is emotion. >> scary but provocative. you can catch the full documentary at 10:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. coming up, we're going to play the entire portion of wednesd wednesday's town hall dedicated to abortion rights.

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well, we're back right now. entire the entire block from our town hall which domgnald trump discussed the issue of abortion rights. let's watch.

>> what's your stance on women's reproductive rights? >> i'm pro-life. i think you know that. with the three exceptions. pretty much that's my stance. is that okay. >> what should the law be on abortion? >> i have been pro-life. >> what should the law be? i know your principle. what's the law? >> they set the law. the judges, you're going to have a very big election coming up for that reason. you have judges where it's real tipping point. this presidential election is going to be important. nobody knows what the law will be. >> i never understood the pro-life position. what crime is it? >> it's human life. >> should the woman be punished

for having an abortion? >> look. >> this is not something you can dodge. if you say abortion is a crime or murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> people in certain parts of the republican party and c conservative republicans would say yes. >> how about you? >> i would say it's a serious problem. it's a problem we have to decide on. it's very -- >> you're for banning it. >> are you going to say put them in jail. >> i'm asking you. you say you want to ban it. what's that mean? >> i am pro-life. >> how do you ban abortion? >> you'll go back to a position they had where people will go to illegal places, but you have to ban it. >> you ban it and they go to somebody that flunked out of medical school. >> are you catholic? >> i am. >> do you know their position on

abortion? >> yes. >> do you concur? >> i concur with the moral. >> what do you say about your church? >> the churches make their moral judgment. you will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe this punishment for abortion? yes or no? >> the answer is that it has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah. >> ten cents, ten years? >> that i don't know. >> why not? >> i don't know. >> you take positions on everything else. >> i do take positions on everything else. >> you do. >> don't talk about my religion. >> i am. you say you're a very good catholic. >> i didn't say very good. you're running for president. i'm not. what should a woman face? >> i'm not going to play that game. >> game. you said you're pro-life.

>> so is the catholic church. >> this isn't spain. the church doesn't control the government. >> what is the punishment under the catholic church? >> let me give you something from the new testament. rend you are unto caesar. i'm asking you. you told me what the law should be. tell me. you say you're pro-life. >> i am pro-life. >> what's that mean? >> i'm pro-life. i have not determined what the punishment would be. >> why not? >> i haven't determined. >> when you decided to be pro-life. you should have thought of it. if you don't have a punishment for abortion, people will find a way to have an abortion. >> you don't believe in what? >> i don't believe in punishing anybody for abortion. i think it's a woman's choice. >> you're against the teachings of your church? >> i have a view and a moral view. i believe we live in a free country. i don't want to live in a country that can stop a person from making the decision. that would be so invasive, so

determinative of a society. donald trump you wouldn't be familiar. >> you're speaking so highly about your religion and your church. your church is very, very strongly, as you know, pro-life. >> i know. >> what do you say to your church? >> i say i accept your moral authority. in the united states the people make the decisions. the courts rule on what's in the constitution. we live by that. that's what i say. >> you don't live by it because you don't accept it. you can't accept it. you can't accept it. >> can we go back to matters of the law and running for president. matters of the law, this is the difficult situation you have placed yourself in. by saying you're pro-life you want to ban abortion. how do you ban abortion without a sanction? then you get into the tricky question of a sanction. a fine on human life which you call murder. a fine. imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant. >> it will have to be determined. >> is the guy responsible urnnd for the law?

>> it has different feelings, different people. i would say no. >> they're usually involved. >> usually involved. you can also watch entire block on our website any time you want. hardball.msnbc.com. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in." >> a fresh face might be the thing that can give us chance to turn this election and win in november against hillary. >> the gop's suddenly not so secret plot to stop trump. >> there will be a lot of acrimony from the people seeking the nomination. >> will the republican establishment try to go back to the future. then, new signs that candidate sanders is here to stay. >> thank you, south bronx. >> as clinton's frustration is on display. >> i am so sick of the sanders campaignng