good afternoon. i'm chris jansing live from the coffee shop in milwaukee, wisconsin. and this afternoon donald trump is back here in this state for what's turning out to be his toughest fight yet in the campaign. he's holding a rally in racine with sarah palin. >> he's going to put it in our hands. he isn't bragging about his ability, though dog gone it he's got the bragging about his own ability to make america great

again. he's talking about putting the government back in the hands of the people, we the people. >> later today trump will head north to a rally in rothschild and he has work to do, trailing ted cruz by ten points in the most recent wisconsin poll after a week of unforced errors withal controversial statements on abortion and nuclear arms. yet again team trump issuing a clarification after appearing to change his stance on abortion in an interview with cbs. >> i was asked as a hypothetical, hypothetically, hypothetically. the laws are set now on abortion. and that's the way they're going to remain until they're changed. >> meanwhile, ted cruz will deliver the key note address at the north dakota gop convention this hour. let's start in racine as you see, where we find nbc's kerry sanders and jacob in rothschild. kerry, let me start with you. so there's this report kind of

incendiary in politico that the trump campaign is actually scaling back cory lewandowski's role. what are you hearing today? >> we don't see cory lewandowski here. he was the campaign manager brought up on charges in the state of florida, arrested on a case of simple battery, touching a reporter. that became quite an issue in this past week. he will have to have a court appearance where the states attorney in florida will determine whether he did indeed commit that simple battery or not. meantime, within the campaign the politico is reporting that there are some shifts taking place, some of this naturally happens as things move forward from state to state. and it gets closer towards the convention. but as cory lewandowski's role is diminished somewhat in the campaign it happens at the same time that the just named convention manager paul is

beginning to hire his own staff. the politico report goes on to say that some of this is in direct response to internally some demotion of cory lewandowski while publicly donald trump said he is standing behind him and is loyal to him. the sthihift in all of this is inner workings of a campaign. donald trump himself who usually speaks without having a team around him vetting his words and suggest that he change things continues to do that. and he's got a crowd here today of about 1,000 in this stop and he has two other stops that he will be making across the state. chris? >> any indication, i don't know how much opportunity you had to talk to them, but there does seem to be in wisconsin as we've seen elsewhere, a core of voters who absolutely will not leave donald trump. is he essentially speaking to the converted right now or do you think there is some undecided voters out there? >> i do know that there are some

undivi undivide sided voter here's because he came here to determine whether to support him or not. some of those who i asked the question of his sort of involving position on eye borab and abortion rights in this country and whether he believes that what the supreme court established is something that should be maintained or not and whether he belief believes as earlier any woman who participants in an illegal abortion should be punished. he has sort of changed all of those positions all within a matter of days. some of the voter here's say they came here hope that he would talk directly about that and where he stands right now on abortion. i can tell you at this point he's made no mention of that issue at all. >> all right. well, he's getting some applause right now. kerry sanders, thank you so much. let's check out where trump will be going next, second rally of the day there in rothschild. what are you seeing there, jacob? what's the crowd like? >> so we've now checked in inside of where the rally will be held.

just outside there are several hundred people in line. we don't see any protesters. this week we've seen a shift in the protesters inside the rallies. in fact, we've seen almost none of them get in and that's partly because we think the trump security team is actively screening the line in ways that we've never seen. they're asking some people to open their jackets, for example, to make sure they don't have bernie sanders shirts on, for example. and that seems to be working for the trump team because this week, as opposed to weeks prior, we saw interruptions sometimes 20 minutes during the trump speeches. we saw almost nothing like that this entire week. here the crowd outside seems to be very happy. it's cold. merchandise, vendors selling trump shirts and happts. >> thank you so much, where donald trump will be going later on. meantime, john kasich is campaigning across wisconsin today. a steady third place in the

polls. but that's not deterring the ohio governor. i caught up with him last night at mark key annual fish fry. what can you do in wisconsin to quiet some of the critics who say you can't get to 1237, you ought to get out of the race? >> because nobody is going to get to that number. we're going to have an open convention. as the race moves to the east i will do better and, beyond that, i'm the only candidate who on tently beats hillary clinton in the fall and i'm the only one with the record of economic success and international experience. so hold on to your seat belt. we're going to a convention. it's going to be fun. >> well, if that does indeed happen wisconsin may play big role in it. joining me which w. what's shaping up to be crucial, scott ross with one wisconsin now. daniel is a milwaukee journal

sentinel columnist. good afternoon. >> thanks. >> daniel, your official title is a political watchdog so i imagine you've been busy this year. as you watch this race what stands out to you as we're just now at 72 hours away polls. >> what's interesting to me is how a couple days ago we were talking about whether trump could win this state. and now the question is could he actually walk away from wisconsin without getting any delegates in wisconsin? >> how does that happen? he was on such a trajectory? >> he's made three bad mistakes here. first he comes in and mishandles the interviews with talk radio. he didn't know they endorsed ted cruz. >> and we're leading the anti-trump move sdplmt with he was oblivious from that. secondly, his attack on governor scott walker. governor scott walker is not the most popular governor right now but republicans did not like trump coming into town and attacking him. and his comments on abortion. i think he's giving a lot of voters a reason to vote against him. >> scott, some anti-trump

activists have argued, and i've talked to them about this, that they think it's more important for wisconsin progressives to vote in the republican primary instead of the democratic primary. do you expect to see that and does that concern you? >> no , absolutely not. the democrats are having an adult conversation with the issues facing the country, access to the courts and why courts matter, where the republicans are having a food fight at the kiddie table over who is going to tweet about w whose wife and who is going to go to prison if women access their reproductive rights. no, there is not going to be any crossover in this race, i anticipate. >> and you would officially discourage it. >> well, i mean, i'm not going to tell anybody how they should vote but it would seem if you're a progressive you have options to vote in the democratic primary and you should do that. i think when it comes to the republican, what you're basically seeing is this has

been a year long campaign on, as dan said, on talk radio to try and push donald trump down, talk radio in wisconsin exists not as an outlier of the republican party but as basically its paid daily spokespeople. so i don't think there's any surprise that trump's numbers have tanked now that there are only three candidates in the race. >> how organized is this here? i mean, i've talked to several of these, radio talk show hosts. some a little more vehement than the others but also talked to people on the ground who are lobbyists, who are businesspeople. all the people involved in this stop trump movement has not worked frankly up until now. >> wisconsin is the political establishment for the republican party. priebus is from here. paul ryan is from here. scott walker is from here. it's important for them to try and create a firewall in this place. that's the significance of the republican party in wisconsin.

>> we had yesterday at this fish fry, which just about every president since eisenhower has been to, sarah palin coming in for donald trump. and let me just play a little bit about -- a little bit of what she had to say last night. >> this awesome awakening, shifting and sifting and the exposing of this rabid bite for them to hang on to any kind of rel vevancy and gravy train, it leading now to a very healthy cleansing of the body of politics. >> respond well, do you think? >> well, i think so. i didn't get boo'ed, i don't know. >> it was -- you were there last night. >> but she didn't get much applause. her biggest applause line was when she thanked feel for graciously allowing them to crash the fish fry. >> was it going to be that way because it was a very pro-cruz --

>> pro-cruz crowd. >> do you think they were still disappointed that trump didn't show up? john kennedy brought jackie there in 1960. >> yeah. i think at the same time people wanted -- i mean, there were a lot of people who when she walks out there taking pictures and everything, her delivery fell flat. the message fell flat. i think it just did not work. obviously it would have been much better if donald trump were there. >> if you had to guess really quickly what do you think the turnout is going to be which will be crucial on tuesday? >> i think it will be record turnout. probably the highest turnout since 1980. >> scott, on the democratic side? >> i think you're going to see a huge turnout. there's been twice as much early voting as we saw in the 2012 primary. and i think that will hold true. there were long lines yesterday at the madison early vote place even though it was shut down for a while. >> well, if it's in madison, chances are it favors not

hillary clinton, so we shall see. >> it's very much a madison versus milwaukee battle on the democratic side. >> so you still think it's really close between sanders and clinton? >> i think sanders is going to win but there's not a poll that shows him up more than five percentage points. >> thank you for coming in. thank you both for joining us. senator ted cruz meantime delivering the key note address the north dakota republican convention in fargo. he's trying to one-up donald trump by making an in-person pitch. all 28 of them will be unbound. that means they can vote for any candidate at july's republican national convention. joining me now on the phone from the convention hall is msnbc's jacob soboroff. what is going on there? >> chris, i'm down in the battles of the sealed rena here in the back where ted cruz just walked out. as you can see, delivering his address. he met privately back here with a group of supporters and try to recruit these unbound delegates. they are the uncommitted 28

votes here in north dakota along with 100 others in three other states that don't have to reflect the role of the popular vote no matter where they are. that's what makes them so crucially important, some say undemocratic, in this krkz. over 20 million people voted in the republican primary and if donald trump falls short of the 1237 delegates he needs after the republican convention in july in cleveland, these 200 votes approximately could come in with quite a lot of power in order to put donald trump over the top. on the other hand, ted cruz is here fighting very hard obviously making a trip to north dakota and the only candidate that's here, in order to stop donald trump from being able to get to that number by recruiting these unbound delegates, who, again, are not tied to the will of any of the voters in any of these states because there are no primaries in the states where unbound delegates are. >> this focus on delegates absolutely fascinating. msnbc's jacob sobooff in far do,

north dakota. thank you so much, jacob. could donald trump's recent comments about nuclear weapons hurt our relationship with u.s. allies? we'll talk about that when we come back. insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. for those who've served and the families that have supported them, we offer our best service in return. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.

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in a moment. update on the security situation in brussels. the airport there will reopen tomorrow. nearly two weeks after a suicide bombing killed 16 people. there will be very limited flights to start though. none to the u.s. security will be much tighter than before the attack. the airport may not be working at full capacity until sometime this summer. also making headlines overseas, donald trump's suggestion that japan and south korea should develop nuclear weapons and refusing to rule out using a weapon in europe or the middle east. controversial comments as world leaders were gathered at the global nuclear summer. president obama blasted trump

saying allies are worried about what they hear from the republican front-runner. >> what we do is really important to the rest of the world. and. even in those countries that are used to a carnival atmosphere in their own politics want sobriety and clarity when it comes to u.s. elections because they understand the president of the united states needs to know what's going on around the world. >> i want to bring in counter terrorism specialist ross with the foundation for the defensive democracies. it's good to see you. i was trolling on the internet today seeing headlines in paper, certainly in the uk and other european papers. i just wonder your take on what the president had to say about this potentially damaging some interest alliances or

nervousness among our allies. >> i think president obama is right. one thing the u.s. allies look to is stability in u.s. foreign policy and in its role in the world. and, you know, in general you have that among the parties. you have obviously very different approaches to certain aspects of foreign policy. but one thing that president obama said is that this arrangement, the u.s. nuclear umbrella in the korean peninsula, is something that has for decades, over 50 years, been a part of not only u.s. foreign policy but also the way east asia conceptionalizes its own foreign policy. and trump has certainly put on the table, throwing it to the went. he has an improvised view of foreign policy which i think is very dangerous. >> we also have been seeing isis as coming back into this whole conversation. the "wall street journal" is report that isis is using a chemistry lab in mosul to make weapons in iraq. one of the goals of the nuclear summit this week is prevent

nuclear terrorism. what can you tell us about the threat from groups like isis? >> the threat of nuclear terrorism is real but also low. it's difficult for a group like isis or al qaeda to actually create nuclear weapons. it's time consuming and there's a lot of ways that it can be caught ahead of time. that being said, when a group like isis controls the kind of territory that it does, territory about the size of britain, that allows it to control multiple things including universities, labs, and they've used chemical weapons, mustard gas and also more improvised color written weapon on the battlefield, it's one of the reasons that we shouldn't allow militant groups like isis to control territory. >> we also heard from officials in brussels about the brothers setting up camera, trained on a nuclear scientists. they were looking to make potentially a dirty bomb. you have a new column out.

it's entitled, brussels and the al capone model. you argue that it's time for europe to break its jihadist networks the same way the u.s. broke the mob. explain what you mean by that. >> when the u.s. went after the mob one of the key principles was to go after mobsters for anything that you can, not just their mob-related activity, but al capone, one of the u.s.' most celebrity criminals, the u.s.' first celebrity criminal was arrest i'd and indicted not for being a bootlegger or a murderer, mobster, but for income tax evasion, for not paying income taxes on his illegal income. likewise, robert kennedy when he ran the justice department said he would arrest a mobster for spitting on the sidewalk. my argument is that right now you have such angie haddist network in europe such that even after this cell that carried out the paris and brussels attacks had carried out two major attack, according to reports investigators are still only now

getting their heads wrapped around that network. that calls for really taking any and all appropriate actions to try to break the depth of this network because intelligence agencies in europe and security services have been all but raising their hands and warn that they cannot stop a repeat of these attacks. >> fascinating column and thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. >> my pleasure. john kasich still in the race even though it is mathematically impossible for him to win the republican nomination out right. one former wisconsin governor explains why he's still supporting kasich, next. continuing to monster republican presidential candidate donald trump who is speaking in racine, wisconsin. >> like carrier air conditioner moving in to mexico -- well, that's the way you have to think about it. you know in japan they sell very few american products. remember, made in the usa, the old -- (pilot talking to tower on radio)

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conventions that were contested. of the ten contested conventions, the person who went with the strongest number of delegates was picked. three out of ten times. >> governor kasich this morning outlining his strategy for the nomination. he's going to hold another town hall next hour in janesville, wisconsin, he remains third place in the latest statewide poll. in medicine in milwaukee counties, second to to ted cruz. 18 delegates to the statewide wiber but the remaining 42 go to the winner of each of the state's congress a districts and that's where kasich has been focusing his attention. join mg we now former governor of wisconsin, scott mccowen. good to see you. >> good to be with you. and welcome to wisconsin, chris. >> thank you. it's great to be here. i had a chance to speak to another former governor, tommy thompson, yesterday about kasich's plan here in wisconsin. let me play if you whfor you wh

say. >> john kasich is going to surprise a lot of people on tuesday. >> best case scenario? >> i think we got a very good shot at second congressional district, fourth congressional district, shot at the third and the first and sixth. >> you think he can do better than three or four delegates? >> i think we're hoping to get six. >> and if you get six, what does it mean for the campaign going forward? >> it means the campaign is going forward one or without. we're going to go to the convention. >> so i'm curious if you agree with that assessment. and let's just say that ted cruz wins the majority, many of the rest go to your candidate, to john kasich. what does that mean for donald trump? >> well, i think there's little doubt that donald trump has lost a lot of steam, particularly this past week. there's been a coalition that has gathered around more to prevent trump, a fear of him going into the convention with a

number of -- with enough votes to win in the first ballot. and a lot of people even though they may not support cruz, will back him. in fact, many people very close earlier, but there's been a coalition to back cruz to prevent this from going into a first ballot for trump. >> so were you disappointed and do you think it could have made a difference if scott walker had endorsed kasich? and were you surprised? >> you know, i think even larger difference -- first of all, no, i was not surprised. i think a larger difference was a lot of independent fund that came in and the way it's been used negative against john kasich. many of the cruz attacks have not been against trump. particularly in the social media and elsewhere. there's been several million dollars put in negative towards kasich trying to tie him in with trump, which is not the case. overall, again, the strategy and while john kasich may

mathematically not be able to get it on the first ballot in the convention he certainly is not out of the race. the you look nationally at the polling john kasich is by far the most popular of the five candidates left running of either party. >> he does have the lowest unfavorables, the highest favorables. he does well in head to head match-ups. no doubt about that. but i think you know what question is coming. if he goes into the convention in third place, if you get donald trump who is very close to 1237, is it the democratic way to give someone who is in third place, who has won far fewer delegates and far fewer votes overall the nomination? chris, i'm going to answer that in two fashions. first of all, you don't have the large superdelegate, the democrat party does. you look at the race before sanders and clinton and it's very close when you listen to just the people. but the super delegates are making it not close. the rules are the rules.

and it is going to go in, as you said, ten times the history, the republican party hs had this in convention and when it gets to convention, people are going to want someone that represents not only taking on some of the status quo, somebody that really understands and will be able to have a good future for all of us and importantly in the convention somebody that can win. a lot of these delegates are going to be members of congress, people run for office themselves. they're going to want a winner at the top of the ticket. >> former wisconsin governor scott mccowen, good to see you. thanks so much. >> thank you, chris. meantime, we've got new developments this saturday on the ongoing dispute over the next series of democratic debates. what the clinton campaign says it propose and why the sanders camp says it rejected that offer. and as we continue from here in beautiful milwaukee, the impact latino voters will have on tuesday's wisconsin primary and why today they were going door to door in the snow and the rain. we'll be right back. and so my new packing robot will make jet warehouses

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after hitting a new fund-raising high of $44 million last month and leading in the polls three days before the wisconsin primary as we look at donald trump who says he's self funding his campaign, bernie sanders continues to draw big crowds and shows no sign at giving up his fight against hillary clinton. joining me now of clinton supporter and democratic senator from neighboring minnesota, al franken. senator, thanks for being here. what do you think she's having trouble here? >> well, i don't know. we'll see. i mean, i don't know if she is. i'm not a prognosticator. i'm here supporting hillary because i think she's the best candidate. >> the poll has been spot-on historically. they see her not only losing but they show her losing a hypothetical match-up against kasich, only tied with cruz. are you surprised she's not doing better here? what's the dynamic?

>> again, i'm not a prognosticator. i can tell you this. as far as i'm concerned she's the most experienced, the smartest, the toughest. she would make the best president. that's why i'm here supporting her. i know that you guys pay a lot of attention to polls all the time and they're important in your work. in my work what's important is getting things done. i'm a progressive in minnesota, for minnesota, and i think she would make the best president. >> the other front run iris also behind here and by much more frankly as hillary clinton as i'm talking about the guy who is holding right now and that is donald trump. he had a tough week on the campaign trail, to say the least. this is a unique state that is influenced by conservative talk radio. but knowing what you know about politics and about this state, do you think that this is an anomaly or is donald trump -- is the trajectory of his campaign

going down instead of up now? >> well, again, i think that's something for prognosticators. my emphasis since getting in the politics, elective politics as a senator has been trying to get things done. and i've been doing that on things like mental health and i think hillary, when she's been going around the country -- remember she had that early phase where she was going to be listening? and she -- >> listening tour, actually. >> yeah. and she talked to me and she heard an awful lot about mental health and about addiction, and i -- you know, that's been an area that i've been working on since i've been in the senate. and i think she will be able to get a lot done in that area. that's -- you know, when we have these interviews on msnbc and on these shows i know that you guys -- and rightfully so as

people are watching this to see what the horse race is -- i'm not so much a horse race guy. i'm a let's get things done in washington. let's get things done -- >> there is a little bit of a back and forth because i think the debates have been instructive on the democratic side, they've been very helpful in helping to dillen nate the difference between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. now they're in a little bit of a back and forth of over whether there should be another debate, the clinton campaign proposed something he didn't want to do it -- >> i think they've given -- my understanding of this, and this is way down -- my understanding they've given him three days. and he's rejected all the dates. i hope he picks that date or find a date because i agree with you. i think the democratic debates have been very instructive and sort of good advertisement for democrats. i think both of them have been very good in the debates. and i think in very stark

contrast to the republican debates, which have been not as good. >> you don't think there's a weariness and maybe we've heard what we need to hear? you're for more debates? >> oh, yeah. i don't think -- you know, if you're weary and don't want to hear it, you don't have to watch it? that's my theory i ni waanyway. i'm not a prognosticator. we'll force them if it's on msnbc to watch it. i'm not sure how to do that yet. >> well, we'll talk about that at another time. >> we'll try. okay. >> something else other people are talking about if big headline in politico. here's the catchy headline. the case for vice president al franken. so i saw that and then when you google it actually it's been picked up everywhere. news max is picking it up. is al franken interested in being vice president, if asked would you serve? >> if news max got behind me then i would really give eight lot of thought. ah, look, i -- it's very

flattering to be mentioned. >> is it? >> yeah, of course. i'm -- i enjoy representing the feel of minnesota and the united states senate. >> could you enjoy being vice president of the united states? >> i'm not sure if i could. i -- i like my job that i have now. >> so let's talk about the rest of this race because one of the key, i think, back and forths about this that dillenaetes. i have to say i don't know in covering campaigns dating back to 1980 that i've ever heard so many people talk tath supreabou supreme court as reason to get involved in the political process. this has really resonated an the possibility there could be more appointments for the next person. you met with merrick garland. what's your possibility of getting a hearing and how this plays as people continue to vote in this campaign? >> well, i hope he gets a

hearing. republicans took -- >> realistically though, do you think he will? >> i don't know. it depends on whether republicans continue to back off their original position which is not to meet with him, and also obviously not to have a hearing. there's a lot of contradictory stuff they're saying. first they said, well, let the american people decide. the american people didn't decide. they had an election in 2012. founders in the constitution said the president is a four-year term. the president, if there's a vacancy, shall appoint a nominee. we will use our powers to advise and consent to -- and do it. that's what the constitution says, says the four-year term, scientists tell us there about ten months left in the president's term. we have to do our job. we should do our job and have hearings. my feeling is that if a judge

garland had his hearing that the american people would see who this guy is. i met with him. you know, when the white house asked me, what kind of nominee do you want to see? i said, i want someone who, after a hearing, after hearings, the american people -- because they've got an education when they have these hearings about the supreme court, about the jurisprudence, before the supreme court. i want them to look at nominee and say, i'd like nine of those. and a meeting with judge garland, that's the feeling i got. impeccable credentials, a very decent guy. exemplary guy and people on every side of the aisle have said that about him. so i hope we have hearings. that's our job. we've had hearings for every -- every nominee that's come up since we started them in 1916.

so this would be -- and let people decide. now there are some saying, but if they decide wrong, if they vote for the -- if a democrat gets elected president then we'll take up garland in the lame duck. they're all over the place. and sometimes i think my republican colleagues don't even talk to each other because i'm on the judiciary committee and i hear all of this contradictory kind of nonsense, frankly. >> al franken, senator from minnesota, also headline maker in politico and news max. thank you so much. >> thanks for that shoutout on news max. they're great. >> thank you for coming in. on the republican side, party insiders who hope to stop donald trump see an opportunity here in wisconsin. i'm joined now by congressman who represents wisconsin's eighth congressional district. good to see you, congressman. good afternoon. >> hi, chris. it's good to be with you. >> i asked wisconsin radio host

dan o'donnell about efforts to prevent trump from winning here and here's what he told me. take a listen. >> i don't think there's any concerted effort to try to stop anybody or anything like that. >> oh, come on. >> but it's really more of speaking up for what you believe. i'll be totally honest with you. i was not really backing a specific candidate, not cruz, not kasich, not anybody in particular. i just asaw one of those candidates -- sort of like the old sesame street thing, one of these things is not like the other. would have been these candidates just saying things that i as conservative couldn't in any way really get behind. >> and never the less, other radio talk show hosts have been very public about this. other members of what i would call the republican establishment have been very open about this. what do you think about this anti-trump stop trump movement?

>> well, i think it's necessary if conservatives want a different nominee if the fall, one that can actually defeat the democratic opponent, they're going to have to pick someone other than donald trump. and that's very clear. nearly every single poll bears that out. the last poll i saw against secretary clinton, donald trump was down by 11 points and that's been pretty consistent throughout the year. conservatives have to pick somebody else if they're planning on winning in november. >> so open convention. what do you put the chances at? >> i would say it's looking more and more likely. i think that ted cruz wins wisconsin. i think he wins it by more than ten points. he's doing well here in northeast wisconsin. i'm up in green bay right now. he's ahead in this district. and i think he's going to maintain that lead. and that could be -- could be a deal killer for donald trump to prevent him from getting the necessary records of delegates. i think it's likely. >> yeah, i mean, if you look at

the numbers. trump needs 88 more delegates to win the nomination, it has been variously described to me by and i should say people who are in favor of other candidates that they think donald trump will get maybe anywhere from three to four on the outside six, although one insider told me probably three for kasich, three for trump. in any case, if it turns out to be that low a number for him, is this a turning point or is it an anomaly? >> i don't think it's an anomaly. i think it's a turning point. i think that over the course of the last several months conservatives are now seeing that donald trump really doesn't have any center of beliefs. it was really noticeable with his discussion this week on the topic of abortion and then he talks about wanting less nuclear proliferation while simultane s simultaneously saying japan and korea ought to have nuclear weapons. i don't know if henesses what he

believes or if he's just saying like a salesman does whatever the customer wants to hear at any given moment. the more he talks, the worse he's doing in wisconsin. and i think that will be the same in pennsylvania and new york. >> republican congressman reid rible, good to see you this afternoon. thank you. >> you're welcome, chris. up next, the small but active role latino voters here in wisconsin could have in tuesday's primary. ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season

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secretary clinton's campaign has chosen to raise money in a very different way. she has established several super pacs. the last reporting period indicated that her largest super pac has brought in $25 million from special interests including

$15 million from wall street. >> that was bernie sanders last night here in wisconsin continuing his attacks on hillary clinton. he's up four points in this state by one poll i think it was five in another. clinton holds her first event here next hour. but both will deliver remarks at the wisconsin democratic party founders day dinner in milwaukee tonight. already there's been a heated back and forth between the campaigns, team clinton releasing a statement this afternoon accusing the sanders campaign of playing games. claiming sanders rejected three different debates -- dates for a debate in new york. sanders fired bacalling it ludicrous to have a debate on the night of ncaa basketball finals. nbc's kristen welker has been following the developments. all this back and forth. what are you hearing? >> first of all, just to put this in context, it seems like there's a new back and forth every day. and it kind of underscores the fact that this race is getting

competitive. sec tir clinton wanted to pivot to the general election. she hasn't been able to do that. they're locked in this tight race here in wisconsin. the issue today is this debate. i've been talking to both campaigns. they want to work this debate out. both sides feel as though they are going to. >> this is not a donald trump situation where hillary clinton is saying i don't see any advantage to another debate. >> well, there's a little bit of that going on. remember senator sanders was the one who said, hey, i want to debate in new york, i want to debate on secretary clinton's turf and the clinton team saying we don't want to debate, we don't like the tone of your campaign late. he's been going negative in recent days, in recent weeks. but they have come to the table and we understood prior to today's eruption that they were just working out the details. well, it seems like they can't determine a date. i think it makes them both look bad at this point if they don't fiction this, if they don't get to a date. and i get the indication that they will. but, of course, in this race, chris, anything can happen. >> how nervous is the clinton

campaign about tuesday? >> i think they're nervous about tuesday. i think that's why she added events here today. she wasn't expecting to be here today. all of a sudden she is at two events in this area today. and so what they want, they don't think they're necessarily going to win but they don't want senator sanders to get a resounding win. remember secretary clinton lost here in 2008 to then senator barack obama by double digits. if she loses by double digits this time around it would be devastating. if senator sanders wins in this state, picks up a few more delegates but he mostly picks up more momentum heading into new york and new york is really the big prize. more than 200 delegates at stake. and sec tretary clinton needs t hold her ground if she's going to make the argument that she is a strong front-runner. so i think you're doing the see a lot of focus on new york once she leaves here today. >> you talked about the escalating tensions. we saw with the kind of liar

liar back and forth. we saw hillary clinton who got caught a little bit off camera saying she was sick of the sanders campaign lying about her, about her donor base, right? >> right. >> he's firing back. i just want to play a little bit of that. >> secretary clinton owes us an apology. we were not lying. we were telling the truth. the truth is, the truth is that secretary clinton has relied heavily on funds from lobbyists working for the oil, gas, and coal industry. according to an analysis done by greenpeace, hillary clinton's campaign and her super pac have received more than $4.5 million from the fossil fuel industry. >> now, the "washington post" actually gave him three pinocchios on that but this is a line of attacks that's been successful for him when he talks about fund-raising, the money

she's gotten for speeches. >> they're continuing to try to fund raise off that issue. just to get to that fact checkpoint, independent analysts have determined both candidates have accepted money from employees who work for the oil and gas industry. secretary clinton probably a little bit more than senator sanders. it underscores he's going for this, not backing down. he raised $44 million last month, chris. he's still very much a force to be contended with. >> kristen welker, my colleague at the white house who i never see anymore except on the campaign trail. thank you for coming on. one key voting group for the democrats of course is latinos. a small but young and active group in wisconsin. of the 156,000 eligible latino voters in this state, just over 44% are millennial, 65% plus mexican. so today 25 volunteers were outdoor to door in snow and rain pushing for candidates with a progressive agenda. >> for a while a lot of latinos have felt like they have not used the power of the vote in

the numbers and in the way that they could. would you agree with that and do you think it's changing? >> i do think it's changing. the demographics are changing. and broadly speaking the latino immigrant community has been growing up in a civil rights movement and you have, especially here in wisconsin, the u.s. citizen children of immigrants coming of age and eligible to voted. and you just have their friends and family as well-being part of the struggle. so we've seen that change. we saw it here in very local elections. you know, there was actually increased participation from the latino district where we worked in in this district, you know, that actually turned out at a higher number. that doesn't mean total numbers but it did turn out at a higher number than the rest of the city and that was a historic development for us. >> there's been a lot of talk this election in wisconsin and interest of the presidential election but also because you have a lot of down ballot races

from statewide to local that have engaged people. that there is going to be record turnout. do you think you could see record turnout in the latino community? >> we're working towards that? >> realistic goal? >> i think we're going to see -- for me i feel very, very confident that in a lot of the latino vote is focused in the november elections. so we'll see what that means in april 5th on tuesday. more people who are more generally engaged are aware of that. but there's been a tremendous focus for the november elections. we recently had an historic day here, day with latinos and immigrants at the state capitol where there was statewide labor stoppage and community strike and a mass mobilization at the state capitol. which related in the defeat of anti-immigrant state bill. in the course of that struggle there was tremendous self

awareness that the other defense that people have is the vote and that the latino vote in wisconsin matters and one of the slogans was, we'll remember november. so i feel -- i'm hopeful april 5th it will matter but i'm confident of that in november. it doesn't come without hard work. it doesn't come without people, you know, getting the world out, getting their friends, getting their family, getting informed. but that's happening and certainly with organizations like ours and many throughout the country, you know, people are deeply committed to that. >> and some of the people working toward that goal today. that's going to do it for me from here in milwaukee for this saturday. thanks for joining us. msnbc's exclusive town hall with john kasich is up next. can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late.

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