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no one is going to that convention with enough delegates. >> i'm beating hillary by 11 points. i'm the only one who can win in the fall. >> they told me it could not be done and i said, you watch me. >> this is an msnbc exclusive town hall with governor john kasich. from st. helen catholic church in queens, new york. here now, chuck todd. well, good evening, and welcome to another msnbc town hall, this one with ohio governor john kasich. we're in queens, new york at st. helen catholic church.

not far from where donald trump grew up. with just a single primary win so far in his home state of ohio governor kasich is playing the long game, looking toward a floor fight at the convention in his home state, which just happens to also be in cleveland. but there are a lot of contests to get through. first, we've got a few more months before the july convention. new york votes in less than three weeks. it matters. the new york primary. and the next big primary is even sooner. it's wisconsin. this coming tuesday. so let's get started, and welcome, governor john kasich, republican from ohio. welcome to queens. you know you're in donald trump's home bureau? >> i didn't know that. >> yeah, there you go.

grew up in queens. >> i had known that, i would have studied it. i know i'm going to get good pizza when this is over. that's what i know. that's more important than -- >> that's the pandering we wanted to hear. >> maybe a little hot sausage while i'm at it. >> you don't use a knife and fork for your pizza, fold it and eat it like a new yorker, right? >> well, come on, chuck. i grew up in the mckeys rock. we didn't have silverware. >> let's start with a question that actually is almost the most common one i get and i bet you get it, too, in private settings. what the heck is happening in the republican party? >> well, look, a lot of these people that are here today, they think the system is ripping them off. i mean, they're worried about their jobs, chuck. they're worried about getting a wage increase. they put their money in the bank, and remember, we used to get interest. remember that? now they don't give you anything. they're worried about their kids. we've got a lot of kids here today, i'm told. we want a good america and they're worked up about it. then i think on top of it, there

have been politicians that have promised things they could never deliver and of course the talk show hosts and the television pundits and all that, they drive this as well. and people are stirred up. >> what's the organizing principle of the republican party now? i thought i knew what it was, low taxes, small government, strong national defense. it doesn't feel like the organizing principle right now that we are a seeing in the party. >> well, you're seeing it out of me. i have a right to lead the party and define the party as much as anybody else. here is what i believe. >> you haven't responded to it yet. >> when they know me they do, absolutely. here's the thing. i think it's really a couple of things. first of all, it's all about jobs. i mean, the only thing that matters, the three things that matters are jobs, jobs, jobs. once we have economic growth, once we have jobs, then we can't leave anybody behind. the mentally ill, the drug addicted, working poor, everybody has to have a sense

that they can rise. there is one other thing i think is really important, especially being in a place like queens. i mean, i don't know queens that well, but i can sit here for two seconds and i can look in your eyes, the spirit of our country doesn't rest in washington. the spirit of our country rests in your neighborhood. you -- look, i mean, i don't know as much as i would like to about what happened here during the flood. my understanding is this church served as a beacon for people who lost -- >> part of it was flooded as well. >> i know. there was ten feet of water in here according to the father that runs the school. but everybody pulled together, right? shoulder to the wheel. we were all connected. that's what needs to be reborn in america again. we don't need to wait for some politician to fix our problems. the politicians ought to do their job, provide economic growth, protect us from these crazy people that want to kill us. but then our schools, the

poverty programs, the programs that affect people who are lonely, we're the ones that have to heal that, right where we live. we need to give people the confidence to know that they need to change the world in which they live, chuck. i mean, you know, we're all -- look, it's, you know, easter season still. i believe the lord has given us all certain gifts, and i think we need to use those gifts to live a life bigger than ourselves and heal that part of the world in which we live. that's what i think is important. the bigwigs taking care of their job, and then in the neighborhoods, revitalizing and re-energizing the spirit of our country. >> the campaign has not been defined by an issue, it's been defined by a sentiment, a culture, however you want to describe it, the issue with this campaign manager and the charges that were filed, ted cruz called it -- blamed trump himself and says he is creating an abusive culture in the campaign. you were critical, too, saying would you have suspended

mr. lewandowski. >> when i heard there was a video i would have gotten rid of him, period. >> do you blame trump for the culture at these rallies? >> here is what i know, chuck. i've done more than 200 town hall meetings. i can walk into a room and tell people about how we're going to solve problems, recognize the frustration, but tell you how we can work our way out of it. i've done it all of my career. or i can walk into a room and just depress people and make them angry and difficuvide them become bitter. it's your choice as a leader. i choose to give people hope. i think in some cases, he has fed on -- he has driven people farther and farther into gloom and doom. i don't think that's what a good leader does. and you know this whole thing that we always lose, i think we're doing pretty well in america. i mean, yeah, we have our problems. but look how much longer people live. look at the improvements in education. look at the improvements in transportation, and so many things. >> you think america is already great?

>> i think america is great. i think we have our challenges and our problems, clearly, brought by politicians that haven't done their job, and with some people in the business world who have been greedy. i mean, there is a lot of things that are floating around out there, but does anybody deny the greatness of our country? where would you like to live if you didn't live here? this is a great place. the key, though, is to convince the people here, if they can live a life better than themselves, i can get the jobs going and take care of the national security, we're going to be fantastic and our kids are going to have a great life. what are we thinking about here? >> you, shall we say, have evolved when it comes to donald trump. the one piece of tape i have, i want to play a compilation what you've said about mr. trump and the potential of you supporting him. here it is. >> why are you comfortable supporting him? >> because we've got a long way to go to the nomination. i don't believe he'll be the nominee. if he ends up as the nominee,

sometimes he makes it hard, but you know, i will support whoever is the republican nominee for president. well, it's tough. i mean, but he is not going to be the nominee. we'll look at it every single day and see what happens. we have a long way to go. i don't want project he'll be the nominee. i don't think he will be. if he is, i review it every day. >> i was going to say, it sounds more hesitant every day. >> i said what i said, chuck and i'm done talking about the subject. >> this is getting very boring. >> guess what, i was right. sunday, you said one thing, 48 hours later, you called his foreign policy ridiculous, his rhetoric incendiary. i can't imagine you ever supporting someone you thought was incendiary or ridiculous. >> here's the thing. here's the thing. i'm a republican. okay? we're all in arena. there is only three of us left. but anybody who got in the

arena -- i mean, it's no the easy running for president. i can tell you. it's great. i mean, my dad was a mailman, i'm sitting here with chuck todd in queens, it's fantastic, okay. but, but, i mean trump is in the arena with me, and sometimes it is a roller coaster the way i see him. sometimes he calms down, the last debate we had he was very calm, and then these crazy things start happening. it's not just him, cruz says we should patrol muslim neighborhoods. it pulls the country apart. i was thinking about this today driving over here. so i have two 16-year-old twin daughters, and whenever i say who, if he happened to be the nominee, i would have to tell them why i would endorse him if i did. so i have my two daughters -- >> you don't know what to tell them. >> i don't know what i'm going do yet. honestly, i don't think he will be the nominee. i'm going to tell you why. because nobody is going to have enough delegates to go to the convention. when we get to the convention people are going to think about two things, who can win in the fall, he and cruz can't.

and secondly, who can be a good president. that's a crazy thing to think about. who can actually run the country? you can laugh. >> the fact that you said you don't know what to tell your daughters yet, do you think he is sexist? >> look, i'm not going there. >> do you think -- >> i'm not going there. >> why did you say daughters? why did you say two daughters. >> because if they were my two sons. i have daughters, okay. >> because a lot of people believe -- [ applause ] >> chuck, we're not in a psychologist's office here. i've said what i have to say. you figure. they pay you all this money to figure these things out. all i want to do is tell these people -- >> a politician wants me to read twi between the lines. >> all i want to tell people is how we can get it fixed. and what my record is. a lot of people say why do you always talk about your record. i'll tell you why. in this day, if a politician's lips are moving, we assume they're lying.

so if i can tell you what i have done in various places, and tell you what i can do, instead of hey, i'm going to give you a 10% flat tax or i'm going to do this, do that, all of these other things. i'm going to tell you what i think can be accomplished. >> you just brought up what ted cruz said about patrolling muslim neighborhoods, and as you know, bill bratton, the commissioner of the nypd, he criticized what cruz said. cruz has argued, he thought it was a mistake that the nypd stop surveilling muslims. that they were doing after 9/11. >> bratton called it, quote -- >> is he policing expert? >> let me tell you what bratton said. cruz said it was short-sighted capitulation of the people of new york. bratton did ending the program was a positive and necessary step. who do you side with? >> i'm a bratton fan. let me just tell you.

bill bratton started in boston. he had a hard time in boston. right? they kicked him around and he came up with this policing business. he did -- he graduated from boston. he did great there. then he came to new york, and he was giuliani's commissioner. then he -- then he goes to los angeles. he is out there dealing with the gangs. when i was first governor, i called him. he didn't know me. i said, sir, i've been elected governor of ohio. tell 34th me who would be the best person to run my prison system, because you're the best in policing. he said, well, we don't have anybody great. we do now, my guy, gary moore. my guy. but bratton is a smart guy. now we're back here again and i believe him. these people can get it. no question ant it. if i want to find out about radicalization in the muslim community, i don't send you. as smart a guy as you are, you aren't going to be able to find it out. i have to go talk to somebody

in the community. if i want to know about radicalization in the mosque i got to talk to somebody who goes to the mosque. if i try to send you there you would be three blocks away and they would say here comes that guy from television, okay? it wouldn't work. we have the entire civilized world fighting against a small group of murderers. our key, the key for america and the president is to unite the civilized world, to get over the egos, turf protection and fight this, and stop it now, both killing isis in the middle east and then the good intelligence that we need and the policing that we need worldwide, so we can be safe. if you're going to polarize one group on the basis of religious test, how are you going to get the information? what do you think, am i right or wrong about that, folks? i mean, i don't think there is any other way to do it. >> speaking of these folks, let's go to some questions. >> one other thing about this. >> and then i want to get to their questions. >> doubling down, the easiest people to attack in the world

today are the muslims. right? attack them. i mean, then i can be popular. that's not what a leader does. sometimes a leader has to say hey, folks, let's calm down, let's be smart about this. because it's our families, neighborhood, and civilization that's at stake. i am free. people say what does that mean? i'm having the time of my life. i get to say what i really believe, based on all the experience i've had throughout my lifetime, to be a good leader. so if i don't get your vote, i want it, but if i don't get it, that's cool because you don't want me telling you something that isn't true, so i get your vote. then suck you into the process and then when i don't deliver, you get bitter. i'm not going do that. it's hard. it's hard to do it that way but that's the only way i can see to be a public official. >> let's answer questions from them and not me. edmond sullivan has the first question. where is mr. sullivan here? right here. sorry.

>> i had my back to these people. >> we want to make it so you don't have that. retired new york city firefighter. the floor is yours. >> welcome, governor. slices of pizza on your way out. i am a retired new york city firefighter, and i firmly believe elected officials have ignored new york city for decades, unless it's been for a tragedy or political fund-raiser, for example, we are a political football as we were for sandy. two issues that should have been a no brainer. why should we believe you have our best interest in mind now and not simply clamoring votes. >> i'm not doing a lot of clamoring here today. look. we're all connected. that's what i try to tell people. you know, we are all -- if things happen, when sandy happened here, and people lost their homes, or when we see a police officer that gets, you know, assassinated, we all die a little bit. you know, we all lose a little something. you know, not only here. but even around the world, when

we see people get blown up on easter sunday, we all die a little, don't we? when a fireman goes into a building and loses their life, we all look at it. we all die a little bit. so we can all die a little bit, but we can all rise a little bit, sir. and there is no way that -- i love new york. this is incredible place. just coming here, it's like, you know, it's like, it's like having a transfusion into life when you come here. this is a precious place, a precious city. it's frankly the apple of the world, not just the united states. but that's the way i feel, not just in a big town, but small towns as well. i mean, this is america. and we are strongest when we pull together. i think heard the little sound bite, we should be americans before we're republicans and democrats. absolutely. and we can't have a system we're driving people. you know, i am a democratic and i hate you, i'm a republican and i think you're nuts. look, i am a conservative, but i don't have to dislike the people

that don't agree with me. and so when you talk about new york or any where else, it's got to always be in the minds of a leader of this country, but you know who it's most important that it is in the minds of, you. as a fireman, as a policeman, as a teacher, as a nurse. i mean, again, i want to go back. the strength of our country rests in the neighborhoods, and we can't ignore neighborhoods when they're in distress. okay? >> let me ask you, though. the republican party scapegoats new york city every once in a while they want to make a point. >> who did that? >> ted cruz talked about new york values. >> who else did it? >> you have lot of people, when they run and they're small conservative towns. >> i love that song by rihanna. >> when you hear the phrase new york values, is that a positive or negative? >> for me, i love it. my wife, i can't keep her from coming here all the time. she'll come and campaign in new

york. when i say, sweetie, will you come to new york and help? you won't be able to get rid of her. but the fact is, for me, it's an exciting place. i mean, think of the arts and the -- all the things, the literature. it's great. i'm not pandering either. it's an incredible place. so is columbus, ohio. come. by the way, you know where you really want to come this summer, you want to go to cleveland. >> apparently a lot of people want to go to cleveland. >> i'm going to sneak in a quick commercial break on that note. we'll be right back. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered

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governor john kasich. we're in st. helen's church in queens. howard beach neighborhood. let's go to the questions, governor. it's nina de blasio. any relation? >> no relation. >> no relation. well, there you go. i think we know the approval rating of mayor de blasio in this room. anyway. go ahead. >> governor kasich, thank you very much for copping to howard beach and putting us on the map in a positive perspective. my question, at this time i am a donald trump supporter. i feel he has a strong vision in keeping our great country safe. i also believe he will defend christianity in a world where others want to defeat it. yes, at times, he does speak rough around the edge, but he brings to the table a nonpolitical correct point of view in which most of us can relate to. having said this and wanting a republican desperately in the white house, how or what can you say to me to make me get off the trump train? >> well, i mean, first of all,

i'm really the only candidate that wins against hillary. last poll i was up by 11. last five or six, i've been able to beat her decisively. but let me tell you, you can get frustrated with the system, and you can knock all the pieces off the chessboard, but i think you want solutions, don't you? >> absolutely. >> so let me tell you a little bit about me. when i was in congress, i was one of the people that helped to reform the welfare system to eliminate the entitlement. i operate under the philosophy that it's a sin not to help people who need help but it's equally a sin to continue to help people who need to learn how to help themselves. that's my philosophy on welfare. number two, i was chairman of the budget committee, we balanced the budget. we paid down a half trillion dollars of the national debt. at the time that was happening, the jobs were growing so fast, there was no discussion of wages, no discussions of income

inequality, we were doing great. when i left washington, we had a projected $5 trillion surplus, which they blew once my friends and i left. i became governor. we had lost 350,000 jobs. we're up 417,000 jobs. i've cut taxes more than any governor in america. we are continuing to reform welfare, plus, because we're doing better, we've been able to help all these people who find themselves living in the shadows to get them on their feet. we don't want the mentally ill sleeping under a bridge or living in prison. we have programs to help the drug addicted with an 80% success rate. we are funding more money into k through 12 education, created a vocational education, more school choice. i can go on and on. giving everybody a chance. the key to the future, economically or common sense regulations, so we're not killing small business. if you overregulate them, you kill them. that's where the kids need to

work and you need to work. number two, you have to lower taxes for individuals and businesses and, number three, you've got to have a plan to balance the budget. you can't do it by visiting the waste, fraud and abuse office, because there is no such place. what that will do is allow us to grow again and leave no one behind and to unite us. that's what i've been all of my lifetime. being able -- even though i don't agree with the liberals, i get along with them and being able to bring us together to remind us that we're all americans. and finally, i spent 18 years on the armed services committee. so i actually have foreign policy experience and the knowledge of how to defeat isis, how to bring the world together. how to unite people, not divide the world. so here is the problem. you send somebody down there that doesn't understand how it works, then you're going to have more drifting. and the only thing i can tell you is we won't drift if i'm there because i know how to move the system. i want you to know one other thing. my dad carried mail on his back, his father died of black lung, was a coal miner.

my mother's mother could barely speak english. all of my lifetime, i've been a reformer all of my life. i upset the apple cart all the time. i don't hate the establishment, but i know how to move the establishment for the good of the folks. that's what i want you to know. i can't do any better than that. other than i think the more you'll get to know me, the more you will like me. keep watching. >> thank you so much. good luck to you. >> before you go, are you still on the train? >> i'm sorry? >> are you still on the trump train? >> i am on the trump train, but i do like a lot of your views, and i do like the way you would run the system. >> i'm going to tell you, and this is true. chuck has been very fair to me. i received no attention for months and months, for -- do you like rocky, the underdog? do you know, i've been ignored for about five months. you know why? because i wouldn't name call. everybody pronounced me dead all the time. we're the little engine. we keep climbing. our challenge now is for people

to really get to know who i am. now they're beginning to know i exist. but they need to hear more about who i am before they can decide. that's -- that's why things like this are so important. because what i love about this, it's not sound bites, not wrestling in the mud. you get to listen to me, look into my head and heart and you get to decide who will fight for you. >> thank you very much. thank you. >> okay. >> it's interesting, you said -- you had an interesting profile, you probably saw it. that some of your old friends in congress, they don't recognize soft and cuddly john kasich, they remember scolding confrontations. that's the john kasich -- i'm old enough to remember when you were the maverick and you were the guy. >> i still have the maverick. >> incorrect sometimes, the blunt talker. but you have been the prince of light, is this by comparison or have you moderated yourself demeanorwise? >> no, let me tell you. if you want to get into a fight with me, let's get it on. down in washington i fought for

ten years to balance the budget. i couldn't get my own party to support it. now, what am i supposed to do? just smile? i had to fight for what i believed in. and guess what? i got it. i won. some of them are very bitter about the fact that i got this budget balanced. you know what they're really bitter about? i left washington. we had a $5 trillion sure police, and guess what, the republicans controlled the senate, white house, and they spent it all. so i say there's no difference, really democrats love to spend, so do republicans. it's just that republicans feel guilty. the point is, the point is, chuck -- >> good thing we're in a church. >> i'm in a big battle with legislature over the tax and fracking industry. >> republican legislation. >> yeah, i am going to push as hard as i can respectfully. but i'm going to push. because if we don't push, we get nowhere. you know, if you go to washington, this guy is running for congress, mr. o'reilly over here. you owe me now. >> that's what i was going to say.

>> you do go down there and you're a mouse, you know what you'll get? nothing. if you want a friend in washington, buy a dog, okay? i've got a lot of my old pals. chris sheas, the guy has been living out on the campaign for me. got a lot of loyal people, too. >> let's go. >> thank you for coming to howard beach. my question is what plan do you have to keep new york city safe and america from preventing another terrorist attack. >> i'm going to go very quickly. we should have a coalition of the arab muslims who supported us in the first gulf war, along with the europeans. we need to go to the middle we need to go to the middle east and destroy isis on the air and on the ground. destroy them. when it settles down, come home. let them figure it out. we don't need to stay over there for a hundreds years. let them figure it out. we need to take this nato organization. chuck and i talked about it on sunday, which he gave me a lot of time to talk about it. a fundamentally military

organization, it needs to be transformed into both an intelligence organization and policing organization. and the president of the united states has got to make it clear that we're all going to work together to make sure we know where the bad guys are so we can disrupt them and destroy them and imprison them. okay? here at home we have the joint terrorism task force made up of fbi, home land security, state and local law enforcement. they need to have the resource which they currently have. and if they don't i would get it to them. secondly, the tools which is why i'm glad to say that the encryption issue appears to be behind sous we can hear. and then there's another thing. you as neighbors, you see something crazy, you got to tell somebody. san bernardino, the neighbor knew didn't say much. the father knew the father was radicalized, didn't say anything. i know that's tough for a dad. the point is we need to be able to tell people what we see and that is why bratton is saying policing these mus sim neighborhoods is not a long-term solution. the solution is all of us who believe in peace and civilization and the lives of our children need to be together.

>> you said quickly about you know, get in, destroy isis and let them work it out. you don't think american be -- they're going to redraw the map. don't have to get involved in the government. but you are in favor of regime change in north korea. is it because of the nuclear issue? >> yeah, i mean, this guy -- yes. >> how do you do it? >> you've asked that question, a lot of people have. you look for all the means. first of all, what i would rather do it prevent them from their weapons. we can't change all this money. we don't have tough enough sanctions on them where they don't change all of this money. we still don't have tough enough sanctions on them. in addition, the japanese need to have a missile defense if the chinese cannot get this -- >> together or they need to -- >> we can help them build it. >> the airborne rail is have the

iron dome. we helped with it but we didn't actually do it. >> how hard would you prevent them from developing nuclear weapons. >> i don't think we want them to have nuclear weapons. we don't need to have anybody else developing nuclear weapons. including iran. no more nuclear weapons. these are the weapons of mass destruction. this is so bad, and that's the thing i worry about for our children and for my daughters. we're going to sneak in another break. this is the town hall with john kasich right here in the howard beach, in the neighborhood of queens here in new york city. we'll be right back. you focus on making great burgers, or building the best houses in town. or boming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered to get your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered with over a million new business owners to do just that. check us out today to see

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we are back. welcome to queens, new york, howard beach neighborhood. town hall with governor kasich. governor, let's go right -- this is cherie murray. >> thank you, todd. >> i believe you're running for office or you have a couple of times. >> yes, i have. state committee woman of the 9th assembly. thank you so much for coming here to queens county. for me, governor kasich, your narrative for president mirrors that of lincoln. my question to you is, as president of the united states -- >> that's not bad. >> that's pretty good. as president of the united states, what specifically would you do to build trust and what specifically would you do to

reform social and economic injustices in african-american communities across the country? >> well, you know, one of the things that happened, it was really great, is nina turner, a democratic -- was a former state senator, may some day be mayor, she came to me with a couple of other ladies, african-americans, saying we have a problem. we need a commission. i said, well, you know, some sort of a study, i said, nina, we're not going to do that. we're going to move quicker. we created a task force on community and police. what we did is we staffed this with community leaders, law enforcement people. she is one of the co-chairpersons along with our head of public safety, who used to run the highway patrol. they sat down for a period of time and tried to figure out how we could bring police and community together. what does that mean? the community can understand the police and the challenges they have. their family doesn't want them to be killed and taken out here when they're on duty or even off duty.

secondly, that there are people in the community who feel that the country doesn't just work for them, but works against them. two days into the baltimore riot, it was just amazing, they released a report. the report created a statewide policy on the use of deadly force. secondly, not only that, but now a whole policy on recruiting and hiring so that the community, the police force looks like the community, in addition to that now we're moving now to ways in which we can fully integrate police and community so that trust can exist in both communities. and then finally, we also have a grand jury study going on by our chief justice. look, the point is -- just a couple of more quick things, chuck. we did criminal justice reform. we give people a chance to get out of the prisons if in fact they're nonviolent felons, they want to improve their lives. the rate is about, almost less than half the national average. we give nonviolent felons a chance to wipe the record clean and to be able to get employment, because many of them cannot.

and i'm a person -- look, if you are a gangbanger, if you want to cause violence in the prison, you're never going to get out. we're going to lock you up for 1,000 years. but if you want a better life, we're going to give you a chance. we don't want to just throw the nonviolent into prison. we want to give them a chance to get their lives back because it's just going to keep repeating themselves. i do believe that people can have a second chance. >> very quickly, more than just criminal justice reform, you have reached out to the african-american community, in a way other republicans have but ohio, the rank, the sixth worst place to raise a black child in, medium income, $20,000 gap between blacks and whites in ohio. cleveland is considered one of the ten most segregated cities in the country. why? first of all -- >> you don't believe them? >> i'm not sure i do believe them. everyone has a political angle when they do stats.

look, i receive 26% of the african-american vote, which sun believable. you know why? because the community says, basically, we trust him. we know that he's doing his best to help us. yofsh wh i don't know what all of these stay at this time ticks are but i'm going to give you a great statistic. we're building a road from downtown cleveland from the cleveland clinic, and we have a goal 20% construction is going to be done by minorities. in addition to that first administration that actually enforces the set aside where the black community has a chance to receive, you know, 15% of all of the contracts that go on. and they can get even more than that. but look, we've reformed the cleveland public schools. i did it with the entire community. look, i will tell you that the urban challenges we have are real. >> right. >> but you got to have a growing economy, workforce, improve your schools. we're doing all of that. i don't know about all that study. i will tell you this. theish shaw issue of infant mortality is a tough one. we've taken it on and one of the

toughest areas to take on is in the minority community. the community itself is going to have to have a better partnership with us to better solve infant mortality in the minority community, because we're making gains in the majority community. we don't ignore any of this, chuck. these are serious issues. i don't put my head in the sand, if i get people upset doing it, that's life. >> craig levine, next question. >> welcome, governor. average middle class income has been stagnant for nearly four decades now. the average middle class worker making 60,000 in 1980 can expect to make $72,000 today. all this while wealthy corporations are growing at an amazing rate. so i'm going to say this is due to tax breaks, lax corporate laws. the poor have also seen an increase in handouts and less of an incentive to better their pog. position. all at the expense of us, the middle class. what do you think you can do to fix this?

you or any other candidate, what would you put in place, day one? >> well, our wages in ohio are growing faster than the national average. that's because we diversified the businesses. we've got to lower the corporate tax rate. it's one of the highest in the world. and secondly, if you pay your taxes in europe, you get double taxed when you bring your money here. that's got to stop. we want businesses investing here in the united states, not investing over in europe because they feel their money is trapped over there. but in addition to that, sir, look, there isn't any question. when we have the zero interest rate, you put your money in the bank, you got nothing. the wealthy people, you know, what company did, they bought back stock, raised the price of the stock. the rich people bought it. they got richer, you got stuck. it was a bad policy over time. now, you want to get out of this mess? you got to get skills. our schools have got to be transformed into schools that take -- give people training for

what their purpose is, connected to a job that really exists that's real. we've got to get with it. i think sometimes k through 12 is still training for jobs of the past. we need to train for jobs of the future. not only that, but you ought to have an opportunity to get out and work as part of theed kigs credits you get. not only k through 12 but the community college and the four-year school. finally, when you go to the community college or the four year school, you ought to have a guide that says what do you want to be, i will tell you the jobs that are available, this is what it pays, and this what you have to do to get one. there is no question that the issue of the struggling middle class is real. and we have to address it. we have to work on it. i'll tell you another thing. a faster economy, this economy is growing terribly. a faster economy will lift all votes, it will. give companies an incentive to invest so you have the tools to become more productive so you get better wages. this is not just some kasich theory here. i have seen these things happen. remember, i mentioned, when we balanced the budget in our

state, up over 400,000 jobs, wages growing faster. we're not out of the woods, but doing better because we're business friendly. we don't give away the store but we want people to create jobs because that's what matters in our country. >> all right. thanks very much for the question. we've got to sneak in another break. this is great. we're here in queens. governor john kasich. ♪

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and we are back here. where at john kasich town hall, we're here in queens new york, the howard beach neighborhood. and mr. marty ingram has the next question. >> welcome, governor, to queens. come to rockway to the beach. >> how much time do you think i'll be spending at the beach? >> i hope you do have too much time. >> if he does have time for the beach, that's bad news for him. >> that's right. many people in this room are victims or survivors of hurricane sandy, and our neighborhoods, our homes were destroyed, we're coming back, we're doing a great job in that but it's widely talked about that the national flood insurance program, the premiums are going to skyrocket. what would you do as president managing the national flood shuns program? >> look, i haven't really studied all this.

i would tell you there's two ways to look at it. if you live in an area that's guaranteed to be a flood, you've got have flood insurance. but if you have a natural disaster where something just kind of wipes in here then the government has an obligation, in my opinion, to help people to whatever degree that's going to be reasonable and get them on their feet again. we have natural disasters in my state, of course, we do. and i think we have to be there. we have to help people. and look, here in this -- in howard beach, you'er people that play by the rules. i mean, you go to work, god fearing people, you've got common sense and then you get wiped out. in that case, we've got to help you. in terms of flood insurance, you've got to look at it in two ways. if you're living somewhere where you're likely to be flooded, you're probably going to pay more. but you know, in a place like this, where it's not to be expected, i think it could be maybe two -- you know, two formulas as to how we do it. i'll have to check it out, okay? are you doing all right? >> we're doing fine.

>> are we risking -- are we letting too much development close to the coastline where it almost -- too much of it and then it makes it -- >> perhaps. and i don't want to just go off the top of my head on this. you mean, one thing you've got to do is be careful. with me, i want to be a mature leader here. you don't just pop off. well, i guess popping off works, but not for me. chuck, i don't know, but i think you have to be careful with this because there's a lot of people that have invested a lot of their money in this. you have to think about it. you have to think about it. >> patrick cook, you have the next question. >> first of all, thank you for coming from new york. >> are you from new york? you sounded like you were in maine. >> i am from new york. i think you're the best candidate. unfortunately the next candidate doesn't always get the -- >> let's go to the next guy. >> don't blow it now.

unfortunately, best candidate doesn't always get the nomination. so my question is if you weren't to get the nomination, why wouldn't you accept the vp nomination? >> because i'm the governor of ohio and it's the second best job in america. secondly, i'm running for president. i'm going to finish my job as governor. people find this hard to believe, but there's also another world out there that is not connected to the government. i have an obligation to my family. we'll see, though. i think what's going to happen is, let me tell you, we've had ten contested republican conventions and the person who had the most delegates going into the convention only won three times. seven times they picked somebody else. so who goes to a convention? somebody like you, sir. you can sign up as a delegate for somebody, but if they don't get enough of the votes in the first or the second ballot, you're free. then you start think, okay, two things. who can beat hillary, right? who can beat her? and secondly, who can be president? because then it gets to be serious on your shoulder. then it gets to be a serious

issue about what you want this country to look like and who can really run it. so that's my view about this. but you'd be a good candidate maybe. >> do you think that you could do more in the white house than you could as the governor of ohio? as vice president. >> i would be the worst vice president anybody ever had. trust me. >> how have you been able to govern ohio while campaigning full time? >> there's these things, chuck, it's really amazing. they're called cell phones. >> no, i understand. where has it been difficult, though? are there initiatives you haven't gone after? >> no, not really. we're preparing a whole sear ree -- series of things right now. i'm on the phone with my staff constantly. my number one job is making sure ohio is taken care of and running for president is second. i can do them both. one time when i was out of government i had five jobs. so it's -- the lord has been good to me. he's given me the capacity to do this and so that's how it's

going. >> two days in february you were in ohio total. understandable. you're campaigning full time for president and it's tough. >> i'm on the phone constantly. we built a great team of people. every time i look at the things that they're doing, i'm like you folks are so great because they're creative, they're innovative and i'm getting ready for a state of the state address in marietta, ohio, that comes next week. you should come cover it. >> i have a feeling we will be. let's sneak in another break here. more with governor john kasich. the msnbc town hall. don't let dust and allergies get between you

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and we are back in our final moments with governor john kasich. governor, you made no bones about it. your strategy is to win this nomination at the convention. your buddy, former house speaker john boehner, an ohio an, said this. if we don't have a nominee who can win on the first ballot, i'm for none of the above. they all had a chance to win, none of them won. he obviously is saying, hey, bring more people into the nominating process if it doesn't happen on the first ballot. do you believe somebody other than somebody who ran for president should be placed in the nominations? >> it should be up to the delegates but since i'm still one of the three still in i think it should be one of us. whatever the delegates want to do, i think boehner has

retracted that since they caught him in a weak moment or something. but look, i think it's going to be a decision about who can win, who's tested and who has the record. i don't know how somebody just pops in, but we'll just see how it goes. >> you criticize ed donald trum for saying there could be riots in cleveland. you're going to be governor of ohio regardless of your standing at the convention. how concerned are you about the cleveland convention? >> we talk about it. you're asking how do i take care of ohio and do this? >> you are concerned this is going to be a little extra -- >> we'll be prepared. we work with the secret service, the cleveland police, the national guard maybe to some degree and the ohio highway patrol. that kind of language is not good. >> where are you kwogoing to wi next? >> you won in ohio and your next best showing, washington, d.c. >> we were close there.

look, it's about accumulating delegates. >> are you going to win a state before this is over? >> the minute i start predicting -- i'm not muhammed ali so i'm not predicting. what i will tell you is it's accumulating delegates. we feel very good about pennsylvania. we feel we're going to be aggressively getting support here in new york. then we head east. at that point, frankly a vote for cruz will be a vote for trump because he can't compete over in these places. >> wisconsin, a new poll has cruz at 40, trump at 30 and you're at 21. cruz has argued that a vote for you is a vote for trump in wisconsin. do you buy that? >> it's interesting, the milwaukee sentinel, the largest paper in wisconsin, skboerendor yesterday saying he's a pragmatic conservative that can lead the country and win in the fall. this is not a parlor game. these other guys cannot beat hillary clinton in the fall. so, look, as the calendar moves along and people get to know me more and we do more town halls and all that, we'll continue to

do well and the calendar is now beginning to favor us. and look, we just have to keep accumulating delegates and gather momentum. >> well, i'm going to pause it there. governor kasich, appreciate you joining us here. this was great. >> enjoyed it. >> stay safe on the trail. for all of us here at msnbc, have a good night. in the history of politics in this country, there has never been anything like what's happening here. >> the donald trump phenomenon rolls on. >> believe me, that's why i'm going to be elected president. >> the exchanges have been heated. >> if you disenfranchise those people, i think you'd have riots. >> that's an incendiary comment. >> that is not leadership, that is political arson. >> donald trump is literally inciting violence with his supporters. >> now they have become personal. >> donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave heidi the hell al