walk. >> you have to be able to walk. yes. it's unlikely that you'll have to, but you have to be able to walk. >> these could be very tricky. anyway, thank you. >> thank you very much. >> this argument will continue. so welcome to back-to-back front-runners night. tonight here on msnbc. chris matthews just hosted that town hall event in wisconsin with the republican party's front-runner, donald trump, and in just a moment we've got my interview with the democratic party's front-runner, hillary clinton. hillary clinton was here in new york today to do this event that you see here at the apollo theater in harlem. but let me just give you the peek behind the curtain here. let me be honest with you, show you how things go behind the scenes with these things because i think it's going to explain a little bit about what you're about to see. so this was hillary clinton's

rally today in harlem. big long line of people to get in to see her. people all dressed up and her name up on the marquee at the apollo theater. see in the foreground there some bernie people across the street from the theater. meanwhile when that was all happening, me and my crew were inside the apollo backstage in the offices there prepping last-minute questions and research for secretary clinton, fact checking everything we were going to ask her and put to her. as soon as the event ended and they cleared out that auditorium that had been so full to see her, we rushed in as fast as possible to set up the lighting and the cameras and the microphones and the chairs and the tables and the water glasses and everything on that stage. i got seated on the stage then she got seated right after me then it's like rush, right, everybody got your phones turned off? okay. good. we got to go. secretary clinton and i kibitz for a teeny tiny second until everything is adjusted in terms of the lights and the sound and everything and then we go, go,

go. no messing around. she's only got so much time, she's a presidential candidate. we do the interview. it's fairly intense. you're going to see it in just a moment. she ends up making news on the supreme court and on bernie sanders and on what european leaders have been privately telling her during the campaign. and, and, and, and, and. fascinating interview. super intense. then wrap, it's over. she's got to go. so, whew, you know, turn on the lights, exhale. and then we all get off that stage, grab our stuff, we all turn our phones back on and, and, oh, my god, what just happened? while that was happening, we had our phones turned off. did you guys see this? literally while we were taping that interview with hillary clinton today, chris matthews was simultaneously doing the part of his town hall with donald trump where donald trump started pontificating on exactly how he would like to punish women. jail them maybe, maybe some fines. if any american woman tried to

have an abortion in this country once he was president and abortion was banned. >> should the woman be punished for having abortion? this is not something you can dodge. if you say abortion is a crime or murder, you have to deal with it under the law. should abortion be punished? >> well, people in certain parts of the republican party and conservative republicans would say yes, they should be punished. >> how about you? >> i would say that it's a very serious problem. and it's a problem that we have to decide on. it's very -- >> you're for banning it. >> wait. are you going to say put them in jail? is that -- >> no, i'm asking you. you say you want to ban it. what's that mean? >> i am against -- i am pro-life. >> how do you ban abortion? how do you actually do it? >> you know, you'll go back to a position like they had where people will, perhaps, go to illegal places. >> yeah. >> but you have to ban it. >> you ban it and they go to somebody who flunked out of medical school. >> are you catholic? >> yes.

>> how do you feel about the catholic church's position? >> i accept the teaching authority of my church on moral issues. >> do you know they position on abortion? >> i do. >> do you concur? >> i concur with the moral -- it's not funny. >> it's really not funny. what do you say about your church? they're very, very strong. >> the churches make their moral judgments but you running for president of the united states will be chief executive of the united states. do you believe in punishment for abortion? yes or no, as a principle? >> the answer is there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> ten cents, ten years? >> that i don't know. >> you take positions on everything else. >> i do take positions on everything else. it's a very complicated position. >> tell me what the law should be. you say you're pro-life. >> i am pro-life with exception. >> that's that mean? >> i have not determined what the punishment -- >> why not? >> i haven't determined it. >> by saying you're pro-life, you want to ban abortion.

how do you ban abortion with some kind of sanction? you get into the very tricky question of a sanction, a fine on human life which you call murder -- >> it will have to be a -- >> a fine, imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant? >> it will have to be determined. >> donald trump in that remarkable exchange with chris matthews there. that happened just here on msnbc. mr. trump, the republican front-runner, pontificating on how he would punish women who might dare to try to have an abortion in this country. something which he would try to ban if he was president of the united states. well, after that clip was released today and several varieties of heck broke out across the political spectrum, mr. trump ultimately changed his mind. several hours after he said that to chris matthews. he put out a statement saying he actually wants to jail or punish doctors, not necessarily women, for the crime of having an abortion. that is not at all what he said out loud when chris matthews asked him about it today on camera. now, because this all happened while i was talking to hillary

clinton at the apollo theater today and we did not know about it until after that conversation was over, i ended up -- i kid you not -- left the apollo theater, came back to my office then turned right back around, rushed back out again to find her again. after our interview was done because i felt like i really needed to get her response to this development. i'm not in the habit of following people back to their offices after my interview with them is over but in this case, that's exactly what i did and i'm glad i did it because watch this. madam secretary, i'm not in the habit of chasing people down after i've had the chance to speak to them for a second round, but while we were speaking today, donald trump made some remarks that you have had a strong reaction to and i just wanted to get your take on this. mr. trump told chris matthews today that abortion must be banned in this country, that he thinks women will go back to illegal places to get abortions. once it is banned, he said quote, there has to be

some form of punishment for a womaning seeking an abortion and then he said he hasn't yet determined what the appropriate punishment should be. you said on twitter about that just when you thought it couldn't get worse, horrific and telling. what do you mean by that? >> what donald trump said today was outrageous and dangerous, and, you know, i'm constantly just taken aback at the kinds of things that he advocates for. you know, maya angelou said when someone shows you who they are, believe them and once again he has shown us who he is. the idea that he and all the republicans espouse that abortion should be illegal, is one that is not embraced by the vast majority of americans in our country. and, in fact, as he pointed out, if it were illegal, then women and doctors would be criminals and this is just beyond any

position taken by someone running for president in a serious way in a very long time. and i think not only women, but men, all americans need to understand that this kind of inflammatory, destructive rhetoric is, you know, really on the outer edges of what is permitted under our constitution. what we believe in. and people should reject it and women in particular must know that this right, which we have guaranteed to us under the constitution, could be taken away and that's why the stakes in this election couldn't be higher. >> he sort of walked this comment back a few hours after he made it and said that if abortion were illegal, it should be doctors who performed abortions and not women who should be punished for this. that was a change from several hours earlier in the day. do you find that any more acceptable? >> no, absolutely not. he would make women and doctors

criminals. under roe v. wade, there is a right, a constitutional right for women to exercise our own autonomy and decision-making over the most serious and personal health care decisions, and this is an issue that we have been arguing over for many years now. but even other candidates on the republican side who run for office haven't gone as far as donald trump has in recent years and what he said today is just among the most outrageous and dangerous statements that i've heard anybody running for president say in a really long time. >> let me just ask you one last thing about this. i spoke with your democratic opponent, bernie sanders, after this happened and he was critical of mr. trump's remark, but then he also said that this is basically another donald trump stupid remark, that the

media will cover ad nauseam as opposed to something like his position on the minimum wage or taxes or climate change that might be more deserving of extended attention. do you think this was another donald trump stupid comment and the media might be making too much of this? >> no, absolutely not. you know, i've been on the front lines of the fight to preserve a woman's choice and ability to make these difficult decisions. i was endorsed by the planned parenthood action fund, endorsed by naral. i've been a leader in trying to make sure our rights as women were not in any way eroded. to think this is an issue that is not deserving of reaction just demonstrates lack of appreciation for how serious this is. this goes to the heart of who we are as women, what kinds of rights and choices we have. it certainly is as important as

any economic issue because when it's all stripped away, so much of the republican agenda is to turn the clock back on women. make no mistake about it, rachel, you know, they would pretend otherwise, but whether it's economic or health or any of the other positions they take, but this one on choice, on the right to a safe and legal abortion, which you do not have to choose, but under our law and our constitution, you have a right to do so. for it to be both legal and safe is under concerted attack by republicans from washington across our country. that's one of the, you know, real dangers that women in many states are facing, that their health care decisions are being basically ripped away for partisan political reasons. and donald trump is on the real spear point of this assault on women's rights, so, you know, it's a serious matter.

the press needs to cover it. the outrage should be forthcoming. and people who believe that women have just as much right to make our most personal decisions as men should be joined together to speak out and call out donald trump for not only what he said, but for the republican party that largely agrees with him even if they don't say it exactly as he did. >> madam secretary, thanks for the time. >> thanks, rachel. >> hillary clinton today in new york in what ended up being one part of a two-part interview that i was able to do with her. now, we discussed there the bernie sanders' reaction to donald trump saying that he might want to jail women for having abortions in this country. you'll be able to see that tonight in the 10:00 hour here on msnbc, that full-length interview with senator bernie sanders is coming up next hour. you're not going to want to miss that. he makes a lot of news. before we get there, first, we've got much more ahead from secretary clinton including her expectations for the big

wisconsin primary, why she thinks she got clobbered in the caucuses this past weekend by senator sanders, and what she says are her best hopes for the republican party. that's all ahead. it's a big night here. stay with us. do you basically look at the republican party in this kind of crisis and say good riddance, that party needs to be blown up, i hope they come back as something better? or do you worry about that? uh oh. oh. henry! oh my. good, you're good. back, back, back. (vo) according to kelley blue book, subaru has the highest resale value of any brand. again. you might find that comforting. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. find fast relief behind the counter allergies with nasal congestion? with claritin-d.

[ upbeat music ] strut past that aisle for the allergy relief that starts working in as little as 30 minutes and contains the best oral decongestant. live claritin clr, with claritin-d. ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season stks with them. make sure the germs ey bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. everhas a number.olicy but not every insurance company

understands the life behind it. for those who've served and the families that have supported them, we offer our best service in return. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. try align for a non-stop,ive sweet-treat-goodness hold-onto-your-tiara, kind-of-day. live 24/7 with 24/7 digestive support. try align, the undisputed #1 ge recommended probiotic.

madam secretary, thank you for doing this. >> thank you. >> we're live at the apollo. you can feel the energy here. you had a big event here. i thought i was going to have to chase you all the way to wisconsin to find you this week. that's a strategic decision. so new york votes april 19th. wisconsin votes on tuesday. >> right. >> on april 5th. >> right. >> the sanders campaign seems to think they are going to win in wisconsin. do you share that expectation? what do you think is going to happen? >> well, i'm going back to wisconsin this weekend. >> okay. >> so i will be back in wisconsin and i had a great day and a half there yesterday, day before, and we've got a really good organization and we're going to just keep working very hard to win every vote we can. and i'm just committed to doing that. i know that -- so is senator sanders' campaign and, you know, we'll see who turns out and votes on tuesday. >> i know that you expect to win

this nomination. do you also expect that senator sanders is still going to be there fighting for it at the convention? >> well, i think it matters where we stand in delegates and, frankly, in popular vote. right now i'm gratified that i have more votes than anybody in this election. nearly 9 million. that's a million more than donald trump and it's 2.5 million more than bernie sanders. and i have a delegate count that is a higher margin between me and senator sanders than it ever was between me and president obama. so i think we are on a very good path to getting the nomination, but i'm not taking anything or anyone or any place for granted. and i'm going to work really hard. now, i hope that if i am fortunate enough to secure the nomination, that we will come together as a party, as i did, when we ended our very tough contest and i endorsed then-senator obama.

i nominated him at our convention in denver and worked my heart out to get him elected because that's what i think you do when a primary is over. >> senator sanders' campaign this week has suggested that if heading into that convention he is behind in the pledged delegates, and even if he's behind in the popular vote, that he will still try to win the nomination at that convention by persuading superdelegates to switch their allegiance to him at that point. is that a legitimate, reasonable, ethical way to try to get the nomination? would you foreswear that sort of strategy, yourself, if this situation was reversed? >> i don't understand the argument. if i have more popular votes and more delegates, then i think it's pretty clear that the people who turned out and voted chose me to be the nominee, and that's what i would expect as i found. i've been on the other side of this equation. i got slightly more in the

popular vote in 2008, but not in the delegates, and so from my perspective, you know, this is about delegates. you have to have the right number of delegates to get the nomination. i'm ahead. i'm ahead by a significant number. i believe i'm going to continue to add to that number and i believe that i will be the democratic nominee and i certainly hope that senator sanders and his supporters will join ranks the way that i did with president obama. >> to be clear on this issue of superdelegates versus delegates, the republican party really wishes they had superdelegates right now because they'd love to have some manifestation of the establishment worries about their front-runner that they could throw a big part of the nominating process back basically to the party and take it away from the voters. do you make a distinction between the different kinds of delegates that the democrats have? i mean, are superdelegates an inappropriate thing in terms of the process?

that there are these party leaders and elected officials who can make such a big difference? >> well, i have more popular votes. >> right. >> and i have more pledged delegates. and we have a system in our party that was set up before i decided to run or before senator sanders even decided to run, and that's the process and i feel very good about where i am in that process. >> there have been a number of caucus states recently where not only has senator sanders won, he's won by a lot. and this seems to be a pretty clear pattern in the contest between you two, you are winning overall both in terms of more states and more delegates and more of the popular vote, but when there are caucus contests, he tends to win and by a lot. he's won 10 of the 12 caucuses and he's won 10 straight and the ones this weekend were by huge margins. why is that? >> well, you'd have to ask caucusgoers, but, you know, clearly not as many people participate in caucuses as they do in primaries. in fact, if you add up the votes

that senator sanders got in last weekend's caucuses, i got more votes than he did in the arizona primary. so i think that caucuses are a very unusual way for some states to really choose who they want to be delegates and who those delegates are pledged to. that's fine. every state gets to pick however they want to. but when you get to the general election, it's about who gets the most votes and who gets the most electoral votes and i think there's no question given what i've already achieved that i'm in a far stronger position when it actually comes to voting in november to win and to become president. >> it seems like looking ahead at that general election right now, we're at a -- we've just hit a turning point. last night, all three of the republican candidates who are left seem to basically abandon what had been their previous pledge that they would support

the ultimate nominee of their party, whoever it was. none of them are saying that any longer which means whoever they pick, there's a really good chance that the republican party is not going to all be in favor of their presidential nominee. now, as a democrat, looking ahead at that general election, do you basically look at the republican party in this kind of crisis and say, good riddance, that party needs to be blown up, i hope they come back as something better? or, or do you worry about that? i mean, we are a country with a two-party system. do both parties need to be strong and sane and together enough to really contest the ideas that the country needs to fight about? >> well, i do favor two strong parties, and at different points in our recent history, the republicans have been more stronger and unified and democrats other points we have been. clearly there is a lot of turmoil going on among republican voters and elected officials and party leaders that they're going to have to sort out.

but if you really look at what the three remaining candidates have said, what they've stood for, i think they are much closer in their ideology and their position on issues than their personal animus, perhaps, suggests. so whoever emerges, i'm going to hopefully be the democratic nominee to take on where they stand when it comes to how we get the economy going. we're not going back to that trickle-down economics snake oil that doesn't work and cannot work. where they stand on health care. we're not going to repeal the affordable care act. we're going to make it work for people. you go down the list. they have a very strong affinity when it comes to ideology and issues. they may express it in different ways and some are more colorful than others, certainly, but when you really strip it down, they are peddling the same failed policies that they have for the last 30, 40 years, and the

country cannot tolerate that. so whoever emerges, whether it's one of the three or they engineer some kind of convention coup, whoever emerges is going to be on the wrong side of what our country needs to do, how we meet the tests that i laid out in my speech today. can the next president actually produce positive results in people's lives? starting with good jobs and rising incomes. can the next president and commander in chief keep us safe and demonstrate strong, effective, smart american leadership in the world? and can the next president bring our country together? i've seen no evidence that these three candidates on the republican side can meet those tests. so i'll let them fight it out however they choose. i'm going to keep talking about what i will do as president to make sure we do meet those tests and that our country is better off because i will have served. >> it sounds like you have a very different take with what you just laid out there, it

sounds like you have a very different take than sort of -- i don't even want to say the beltway common wisdom. just the broad political common wisdom of what's going on in this race which is that on the republican side, there is a very different kind of candidate as their front-runner. the country is sort of convulsed in fascination i think with mr. trump being the front-runner because everybody believes that he's a very different kind of politician. he's a very different kind of republican. if the republican party picks him, it will somehow change that party fundamentally, if not destroy it. sounds like you think he's just another republican politician. >> well, he has a different personality and he presents himself differently, but look at the budget he presented. it would throw our federal government into the biggest deficit hole and increase the national debt beyond anybody's wildest imagination. look at his commitment to repeal the affordable care act. look at how he has basically said, you know, he's going to make decisions and he's going to try to solve problems like

deporting 11 million or 12 million immigrants. he's not that far off from others who are also still in the race or were in the race before. you go down the list, rachel, and there may be differences of degree, but not of kind when it comes to comparing where the party is and its leadership and these candidates. what i think is going on is that, you know, they know because of his personality, because of his divisiveness which is much more out there than what you see among other republicans, not that it's that different, but the way he expresses it, you know, going after mexicans as rapists and criminals, insulting women, barring muslims. you know, that reflects a certain strain of belief within the republican party. it's not totally outside the pale of what many of their leaders have been saying,

campaigning on, winning elections on. what they've done is to create the environment where someone emerges who is truly, in their view, a personality they don't know what to do with, and yet on issues, they should look in the mirror. >> you as secretary of state and in other elements of your political career including being a senator from here in new york, you've had lots of contact with leaders around the world. mr. trump, as the republican front-runner, is obviously having some success with republican voters. he really is way ahead of the field. he does look like he's likely to get the nomination. whatever he's offering, it is playing in our country to a certain degree with the republican electorate. how do you imagine it will play with world leaders? >> well, we already know that because we can see public comments from world leaders and we also have a lot of evidence from private communications that i and others have received asking what is going on? what does this mean? just take two of the points that

he has made. one, around terrorism and barring all muslims from coming to the united states. we know if we're going to defeat isis, which is a very high priority for us, for our partners in europe and the middle east, especially israel and others, we have to form coalitions with predominantly muslim nations. i know how hard it is to form a coalition. i formed the coalition that imposed the sanctions on iran. got russia and china and others to be part of it. you don't form a coalition by starting with insulting the religion of the people in the countries you're trying to get in to the coalition. then when he turns his back on nato, the most successful defense alliance in history, which has to be a part of our effort to defeat isis and to stop terrorists attacks in europe and elsewhere, it doesn't show that he's strong. it shows that he is dangerously wrong. he's in over his head.

this idea he's been putting out recently that we should withdraw from the pacific, so we're no longer a pacific power, we're no longer fulfilling our treaty obligations to japan, south korea, and others. in fact, off the cuff, he said, let them have nuclear weapons. so we'd have an arms race under his theory not just in the middle east but also in asia. i have no idea what that means other than it scares me and it scares a lot of thoughtful leaders around the world. united states has kept the peace. we have created the conditions for global prosperity. we now have to up our game economically so that more americans benefit from that global prosperity, and i have the plans i think that will deliver on that, but if we withdraw from the world, if we, in a sense, build a wall around the united states, we will pay a big price and i think if he decides to continue with that sort of foreign policy, national security, ad libbing, it's going

to cause a lot of serious questioning among our friends and allies that could have unfortunate consequences for our policies. >> the criticism that he has raised about nato, which you were just discussing there, is obviously raising eyebrows not just around the world but also here at home. it's seen as a very, very radical proposal that we would turn our back on nato. there is an element of his criticism which i think is not seen as extreme and there is widespread concern about and that's the fact that nato countries, less than a fifth of them, are spending what they're supposedly obligated to spend on defense. this is a mutual defense pact. we count on our allies to be holding up their end of the bargain on this. he's complaining we're basically carrying other countries' weight in nato and other countries aren't keeping up with us. isn't there something to that part of the criticism? >> well, i think it's fair to say that we do want the countries that are partners in nato with us to fulfill their obligations.

and we will continue to push that. some countries, as you said, have really stepped up in the last few years to do that and we want more to step up. but we have to look at what it means to have defense. we have to modernize nato. what kind of alliance will nato be? how does it protect from the non-state threat of terrorism? we've always been an alliance primarily focused on russia and aggression, then moving our eyes to iran and the potential of nuclear weapons and the like. we have to take a 360-degree look of how nato is going to help improve the defense and security of our european partners, but i would still argue while we're in that process to get them to do more for themselves and to change some of their laws so they can be better partners with us, particularly on sharing information across their own borders and with the united states when it comes to potential terrorist activity. again, don't think you accomplish that by holding this threat over their heads where

you act like you are totally oblivious to the fact that russia is probing the boundaries of the baltic states, for example. you don't, i think, get what you need out of nato countries, all of them, including the smallest ones, by acting as though you can walk away from it. that could lead to the politicians and the forces within, let's say, the baltic countries who are favorable toward russia, like russian-speaking populations, to say to their fellow leaders, hey, you know what, the u.s. is out of here, we better start making accommodations with russia. this all is a very complex set of circumstances that i don't think he even has studied or cares to understand. and so, you know, from my perspective, i'm willing and anxious to take him on on this broad range of foreign policy and security issues. >> do you think that he's manifestly unqualified to be running for president given what you just described as his approach to foreign affairs? secretary clinton answers that

"manifestly unqualified" question and not in the way you think she might right after this break. we'll be right back. why do so many businesses rely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority: you

spending the day with my niece. that make me smile. i don't use super poligrip for hold, because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well fitting dentures let in food particles. just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. try super poligrip free. he is.rrible at golf. people say i'm getting better. no one's ever said that. but i'd like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. he's just happier when he's playing. but he's terrible. for the strength and energy to keep doing what you love, try new ensure enlive. only patented ensure enlive has hmb, plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. and its clinically proven formula helps you stay y.

oh. nice shot. new ensure enlive. always stay you. whewhat does it look like?, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. watching tvs get sharper, oh remotes, you've had it tough. bigger, smugger. and you? rubbery buttons. enter the x1 voice remote. now when someone says... show me funny movies. watch discovery. record this. voila. remotes you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. x1 customers get your voice remote

by visiting xfinty.com/voiceremote. today with me in new york, hillary clinton discussed a wide range of things she thinks are wrong with the republican party, the republican presidential field and the republican presidential front-runner. particularly when it comes to foreign affairs. her criticism of donald trump in particular was so sharp today i asked her if she basically thought he shouldn't even be running for president.

do you think that he's manifestly unqualified to be running for president? given what you just described as his approach to foreign affairs? >> i'll let voters decide that. i look forward if he is the nominee and i'm the nominee to really going after him on issues, because remember, the republicans still have not gone after him on issues in large measure because they agree with him on so many issues. so when they start moaning and groaning and gnashing their teeth and the best they can do is insult each other's wives and call each other's names, they're not dealing with issues because they're afraid to deal with him on issues because he'll turn around and say, well, you said this and you said that and i know where you stand. i'm the only one who will be finally taking him on on issues and i believe once we start doing, that the american people who have been watching this like the most ramped up, you know, reality celebrity tv show are going to start saying, he is scary. he is dangerous, we can't let

him go forward. >> i hear your eagerness to engage in that general election fight. i have to just ask you big picture if you are frustrated that the democratic primary is probably going to go until june, if not july, if you felt when you started this process that by now you'd already be talking general election and focused on a nomination that you'd already sewn up? are you surprised senator sanders has been this much of a fight for you? >> no. i'm really not. i always knew that it would be a contest. it should be a contest. we're going after the most consequential job in the world and it's like a big job interview. we're asking the american people to hire us. and remember, i'm the person who went all the way to the end in june in 2008. so why would i expect anybody running against me to give up or quit before the process is done? i don't expect that at all. i expect to win it.

i expect that i will be the nominee, but i respect the process and so i'm going to go after every vote in every contest going forward. and i also believe that when i talk about trump or cruz, i'm not turning my attention to the general election as though the primary is not still going on. today in my remarks here at the awe -- apollo, i addressed some of the differences senator sanders and i have. we share the same goals. but we have differences. we have differences of experience, differences of approach. that should be part of the contest between us but i also know how the rest of the world is hearing trump and cruz. i know how other americans are hearing them. since the republicans are not taking them on on issues, i feel an obligation to stand up and say, you know what, nato's important, i understand that. i get messages from european leaders saying, thank you, thank you. you know, we just thought, you know, that we didn't believe

what we were hearing. here at home, you've got trump talking about racially profiling muslim communities and cruz talking about policing muslim communities. i can't let that go unanswered. you know, i'm fighting to unite our country and i don't think you wait and then take on these outrageous, offensive, dangerous statements, you take them on as they happen and you give some comfort to americans who are literally coming up to me, rachel, all over this country and saying, thank you, thank you for standing up, thank you for speaking out. more of us need to be doing that. this is outrageous, and look, i'm not going to, you know, join in the chorus of bashing the press, but for a long time, you know, i think the media just was in awe of the rating spikes and the amazing number of eyes that were willing to watch trump do anything. and so he was basically

unchallenged and now finally as he's gotten more and more outrageous in a lot of what he's said, where he's gone after large populations of people, muslims, immigrants, women, you name it, i think there are a lot of americans who are not part of the republican primary process because think about it, i've gotten more votes than he has nationwide. he has not demonstrated that he can really broaden his appeal but i don't want his views to be appealing, either. so i'm going to keep raising my voice about him. >> secretary clinton fired up today in new york basically saying she's not pivoting to the general election when she talks about republicans. she says she's just outraged by them and she feels like she should say so. she also said european leaders have been contacting her with their worries about donald trump. we covered two last issues in this interview today including

one issue in which bernie sanders says that he has a pretty sharp difference with president obama but secretary clinton told me today that on this issue there was absolutely no daylight between her and the president. that one's next. stay with us. have >> you know, i really find this whole line of questioning one that i'm not comfortable with because i -- we have one president at a time, and i think part of the problem right now is the republicans are trying to act like he's not really still president. don't let dust and allergies get between you and life's beautiful moments. with flonase allergy relief, they wont. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms.

most allergy pills only control one substance. flonase controls six. and six is greater than one. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. so you can seize those moments, wherever you find them. flonase. six is greater than one changes everything. at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like bill splitting equals nitpicking. but i only had a salad. it was a buffalo chicken salad. salad. and cannonballsch and clean and real and looking good and sandwich and soup and a new personal best. and a little help and soup and sandwich and study group. good, clean food pairs well with anything.

try the clean pairings menu. at panera.ood as it should be. burning of diabetic nerve pain, these feet learned the horn from my dad and played gigs from new york to miami. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision.

common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to mise lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. ask your doctor about lyrica. may be more likely to mise lyrica. right after president obama nominated judge merrick garland to fill the current vacancy on the supreme court, i was able to interview senator bernie sanders and i asked him what he thought of that nomination. senator sanders told me that if he is elected president in november, he would ask president obama to withdraw the merrick garland nomination so a president sanders could pick his own nominee for the court. i asked hillary clinton that same question today. she had a very, very different take on this issue. president obama has nominated merrick garland at the supreme court. >> right. >> if you are nominated by the democratic party and you are elected president in november,

would you ask president obama to withdraw that nomination in the lame duck so that you could put forward your own nominee, or would you be okay with that nomination going forward as a lame duck if that's what the republican senate wanted to do? >> i really find this whole line of questioning one that i'm not comfortable with because i -- we have one president at a time, and i think part of the problem right now is the republicans are trying to act like he's not really still president. i was one of the 65 million people who voted to re-elect president obama. so my voice is being shut out because the republican senate won't actually process judge garland's nomination. so i don't want to -- i don't want any daylight between me and president obama. i want to support his constitutional right and obligation. i want to keep the pressure as i did in the speech that i gave at the university of wisconsin in madison talking about what's at stake in the supreme court. so let's stay focused on what this court has before it because

there are some very consequential decisions that are pending, and, you know, let's keep the pressure, which you can see is beginning to affect some of the republican incumbents who have tough races for re-election. i want them to feel as much heat as possible. i don't want to give them any way out. so i'm sticking with the president. the president's prerogative is, his constitutional responsibility. and that's what i'm going to stand up for. >> you know, there is this -- i mean, there is the issue of the radicalism of what's happening right now in the senate. i mean, to hold a supreme court vacancy open for a year plus -- >> right. >> -- because as you say, they may be deciding they prefer president obama isn't president anymore so they're going to pretend as if he isn't. i look at that and see that as so unprecedented and so radical, it makes me wonder that whether or not you are the nominee or senator sanders is the nominee, if there is a democratic president elected in november, makes me wonder why they wouldn't just continue to hold that seat open.

i mean, are we -- have we so broken the norms, have we so broken with precedent that they may decide democratic presidents in general are not allowed to fill supreme court vacancies? >> first of all, we need to elect a democratic senate and that's why this supreme court fight has real consequences for this election because it's hard to make the supreme court a voting issue. i've tried in the past. people see it as sort of theoretical. this is so in front of everybody's eyes, front of mind about this senate behaving in such a radical, extreme, partisan way. i actually think it can help us take back the senate. and i would love to see that. and if we, then, have a democratic senate and we have somebody as creative and vigorous as chuck schumer leading it, i think we'll be back on a path of, you know, progress and problem solving.

now, if that doesn't happen but we narrow the margin, even that will give us leverage we don't have right now. >> let me ask you one last question which i'm asking in part because we're here in new york which is the headquarters of the clinton foundation and the clinton global initiative. the clinton global initiative. is there a case to be made, an ethical case to be made that the clinton foundation and the global initiative should essentially be wound down as a family foundation, while you run for president. i ask that because, i think about the good works, the good, charitable works that the clinton foundation has done, but the way some of that work gets done is by soliciting donations from people in this country, from people around the world, from organizations around the world. i think it is not unreasonable to think that people may give donations to the clinton foundation hoping that they will favorably influence your opinion towards them as a presidential candidate or eventually as

president, if you're elected. is there an ethical concern there that there should be, essentially, a split between you and your family and this foundation, that has done good work, but now you're in a different position with regard to potential donors. >> well, look, i think that the work that it's done has been extraordinary. and i give the credit to my husband and my daughter, because i haven't bon involved for that long, and, you know, when i look at what they've accomplished and what they've been able to amplify in terms of saving lives by getting the price of drugs for hiv/aids down in sub-saharan africa, it's quite astonishing. and i would hate to lose that creativity, the imagination, that extraordinary flexibility. so i think the answer is transparency. and there is no doubt that there will be complete transparency about donations. but when you have hundreds of thousands of people who are donating, as they do, i think that the best answer for that is

what we have been doing for the last several years, and that is to be transparent about it. and let, you know, let voters and others make their judgment. >> madame secretary, it's really nice of you to give us this time. >> it's a pleasure. good to talk to you again. thanks, rachel. >> hillary clinton speaking exclusively with me today in new york city. we'll hear from her democratic opponent, bernie sanders, in just a few minutes. it's a big night. stay with us. ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products.

because no one kills germs better than clorox. this... is how it begins... with a mighty roar... that tells the world... we're coming for you. that tells the world... this iin my 20s,ers saw me. i was super irresponsible with credit cards. it was time for experian. they gave me tools so i could finally get serious about my credit. now lenders see me for who i really am...

go to experian.com and start your credit tracker trial membership today.

watching tvs get sharper, oh remotes, you've had it tough. bigger, smugger. and you? rubbery buttons. enter the x1 voice remote. now when someone says... show me funny movies. watch discovery. record this. voila. remotes you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. x1 customers get your voice remote by visiting xfinty.com/voiceremote. this was a day around here when we all reached our target heart rate. first, we got this revealing

interview with hillary clinton, where she talked about the private messages she gets from european leaders, wanting to know what on earth is the deal with donald trump. then donald trump himself did his best to knock the world off its political axis again by saying abortion should not only be outlawed, but he's mulling the proper punishment for american women who try to get one. then i ended up racing back out again to get secretary clinton's red-hot instant response to that. and while i was running up there to do that, donald trump tried to take back what he'd said by saying, instead, that he actually only wants to punish doctors now. then ted cruz decided he might try to make political hay of this by criticizing donald trump forever saying women should be punished for abortion. although senator cruz has, as a co-chair of his pro-life for cruz committee, say that doctors should not just be given punishment for giving abortions, they should be given capital punishment. they should be executed for doing abortions. and that was just the first half of the day. that was part one. that was just warming up. wait until you see part two with

a very fired up, no-mood-to-play senator bernie sanders. and that's next. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you.

whewhat does it look like?ss, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter

the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. some say "free the whales." for them, nothing else is acceptable. but nothing could be worse for the whales. most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding.

we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest standard of care available anywhere. and guests can come to see them simply being their majestic selves. inspiring the next generation of people to love them as you do. welcome back to this super-sized edition of the rachel maddow show tonight. senator bernie sanders is riding high today in today's presidential politics. just a few days after his huge double-digit wins over the weekend in alaska and hawaii and washington state. bolstered by those huge margins he got in the caucuses in those states this weekend, the sanders' campaign appears to now be feeling its proverbial oats. they're now demanding more debates with hillary clinton. the sanders' campaign is now calling secretary clinton a wea