good evening, i'm chris matthews back in washington. in a few minutes, donald trump will speak for the first time since his double digit trouncing out in wisconsin last night. can he still present himself as a winner in november, after such a beating in april? can he convince the big shots in his party that it's better to live with him, as the presidential nominee than to die in the explosion should they reject him in cleveland. the polls light up the situation face bid republican leaders, a monoth poll, shows the most delegates heading into the convention, simply put, he should be the nominee. in other words, a completion rejection of the stop trump argument. the new york businessman must reach 1,237 or walk away a loser. i'm joined by new york magazine contributing editor, a new title for our man, andrew sullivan, time magazinemagazine, jane newt small.

gene, he want to start with you, i think know where you're coming from. if trump in two weeks win ors loses new york, he'll probably win, it looks like he'll get to 1,237 an they deny him the nomination because he is 1,158, what happens? >> i don't see him denying the nomination if he is that close. i really don't. first of all, there are some sort of uncommitted unfledged -- unpledged delegates. he'll be working on them. you're power broker, trying to make this decision, are you going to give the middle finger to your base, to your most energized activist base? and i think the answer is you're probably not going to. i don't see him -- >> what would be appropriate gesture if you said to women of the republican party, jane, if you are picking on a guy who said these things, taking these positions he has had? what do you say to those women

when you pick trump? i'm just asking. the numbers among women are terrible. >> unbelievable. you saw this past week, cath or morris rogers, the women coming out against trump, saying he is not of our party, we don't believe in this, a lot of things that he said. so look, there has not been a republican who has won the women's vote since george h.w. bush. and in fact, you can't win the presidency unless you mitigate the loss of the women's votes to a democratic to less than five percentage points. trump is under water by 73%. we've been talking to a lot of republicans on the hill and whether it's trump or cruz, which to them, it's the devil you know and the devil you don't. but either way, they're assuming they're going to lose this race. >> and cruz has lousy votes among women. >> he is 30 points. >> yesterday in wisconsin were men.

that explains some of it. >> it wasn't much of a gender gap. >> mr. sullivan. >> hello, mr. matthews. >> i would like to have you speak now. i missed you in the repertoire world. this is your return from where? >> a sabbatical really. >> i understand you've come back because of the race. >> i think this is the argument, the never trump people are going to have to say. this man is not like another candidate. with a different set of views. he is actually a threat to our entire political system. what he represents is a kind of real, you know, powerful source from below that wishes to abrogate, to destroy our alliances, global religious war, he delights in, rather than tamp down, racial a live possibility. he would be a president that would do anything but calm things down.

so when you have such a figure, such a terrifying figure in the race, you have to begin to say no. >> why are the -- you have this massive conflict, which will be addressed in new york to some extent of a republican party, which says basically we've got to give to him with the most delegates, even though he said the things on ban on islam, coming into the country, the wall, all these things. >> the republican whose care about their own country, who care about the decency of this country and its constitutional stability, because if he were to become president, we'll be in the middle you've constitutional crisis almost immediately. >> short-term, it's a short-term versus long-term bed, right. so if you pick donald trump as your nominee, causing riots in

cleveland, and that's the short term peace, but are you alienating women that you won't win the white house for another 20 years. >> the first bitter sip. take this, if you accept this as your nominee. it's chilling. there will be more, you're going to be asked to do it again and again. >> i've heard the argument look, we have as convention delegates will have a fiduciary duty to nominate someone who actually can serve. we believe as qualified to serve as president. however, i just don't see him doing it. i have a hard time seeing them, if he is 20 delegates short, 40 delegates short, 50 delegates short, whatever, telling the base of the party, thank you very much for your input. we realize, you know, but we're going in a different direction. >> it's not entirely the base. these are new people who have come into this party.

>> well, no. >> after losing last night, a scathing statement, his words, ted cruz's worst than a puppet. 's i trojan horse being used by the party bosses to steal the nomination from mr. trump. if he doesn't win, it has been stolen. this does sound a lot like a third world country. you always blame the scoreruption of the existing government. >> he is running to prosecute his opponent, hillary clinton. he said he wants to put her in jail. >> that is third world. >> incarcerate. >> he is absolutely, if there was any person, any candidacy, would you say i don't care if he loses election, it's our patriotic duty to stop this maniac from becoming the president of the united states.

>> cruz has many problems with women, believe it or not, just because of his ideology, and paul ryan comes in, out of the wings somewhere, like in shakespear, it's not working. >> it has to be cruz. >> would you ever vote for cruz? >> no, but -- >> he is not -- >> i'll tell you one thing about cruz, he understands the constitution. he would not threaten our political system the way he would. >> at least with cruz, you get a party reset, right. you get the barry goldwater where you ran the guy. >> he is a sore loser. >> but so is donald trump. >> no one is a sure loser against hillary clinton. >> hold on a minute. >> this is why i'm really worried. if we didn't have the weakest democratic candidates since dukakis, we could easily rest easy and think trump can't get it.

>> you think hillary clinton could lose to cruz? >> i don't think she has ever won a competitive election and won't now. >> i disagree, but go ahead. >> you can make an argument that if they're going to take the leap, and deny trump the nomination, then they might as well go with somebody who they think can protect the down ticket candidates, the down ticket republicans. >> who would that be? >> paul ryan, somebody like that. now, paul ryan, you know, unfortunately, he can't just skip the convention, because he'll be chairman of the convention, so he has to be there. if i were he, i would have an urgent appointment in australia. >> we're waiting now for donald trump at that rally in beth page, new york, long island. jacob is outside where protesters have gathered. who are the protesters? >> we're looking at here is you have trump supporters who weren't able to make it in, because the event is at capacity, more than 10,000 people, and they've gathered across the way from these protesters who have been here for many hours, chanting a few

hundred of them, and just in the last 15 minutes or so, they clashed, because the people who couldn't get into the rally came out and then they started yelling at the protesters, and so quickly, within a few minutes, police who have also been here for a few hours, who have been preparing for this for a week, set up these gates that you see here. so that they didn't actually engage each other physically. so for the past 10 or 15 minutes, they've simply been yelling chants back and forth, usa, black lives matters, et cetera. and again, this is only been going on for 15 minutes or so. but it's kind of getting heated, but the police don't want anything to happen, and it doesn't look like it will. >> is this a racial conflict? what's the makeup of the crowd on both sides? >> so if you look at this side,

you're going to see a more diverse crowd. but as i did mention, they did yell at one point, black lives matter. that hasn't been the focus of this. no more hate they're now chanting. they're mostly chanting usa, saying dump trump, stop islam-phobia. the answer to your question -- >> chicago. >> no, not like chicago. >> we'll be back to you later. this is a developing situation there. it looks like. >> we're going into new york, right. there are a lot of people in new york. a lot of people who really oppose donald trump in new york. i assume there will be big crowds at every big rally. he'll be doing huge rallies. it's, you know -- >> let me get back to your point. it looks to me like trump is a lucky man. because trump has picked an

opponent he can beat in new york and probably beat in pennsylvania and probably in maryland and the rest of the northeast. cruz is essentially a rural guy. his appeal is essentially to evangelicals and the people who don't like the big city, and where a phrase like new york values would work. he is now running in new york, where new york values is sort of like the way things are. the first state to be pro-choice i believe, maybe california. i think it was new york. a state that has live and let live. every new yorker i know takes tremendous pride with diversity. they love the fact they have different orientations, different ethnic groups, busy as hell, different restaurant every night if you're lucky. they love that stuff. here comes a guy, simon pure, right-winger, coming into new york, saying i'm going to lean up the new york values things you got going here. it's perfect for trump. >> it is perfect. but i'm troubled by these scenes. i'm troubled by what happened in chicago.

when you have candidate in trump who supports violence, condones violence. >> how so? explain that. >> because every time there has been violence, he has defended the person inflicting violence. his own campaign manager uses battery as a weapon against the press. this is a man who believes in violence. why else would this man favor torture if he didn't see that as the ultimate form of power, that he seeks. he is a thug. and this will lead to civil unrest in this country. there is going to be serious civil unrest. if we're lucky, we'll get through the civil unrest without him being president. if he becomes president, god knows what will happen in this country. >> what do you think stirred the black/white aspect in chicago, which was scary? what do you think stirred that? black lives matter, the organization? >> the left has gone so far to the left, it's now basically a marxist, especially on the questions of race. >> who do you like? the democratic party has swept to the left? >> not the whole democratic party. >> you said that. >> no, i didn't. i said black lives matter.

the race, the left on the race question is now near marxist in a way it hasn't been. a socially completely unmoveable force. i mean, i've red tanahasi coats. >> that's not quite what he says. it he doesn't say it's oh unmoveable. >> he says it cannot be changed. the impression is permanent, because the structure is permanent. there is no hope, only despair. he says that to his own son. you can't get anything more despairing than race about america. you have those attitudes, and trump's white nationalism, you have serious unrest in this country. we're under estimating, by thinking of him in terms of demographics. >> i agree. i made this point late last night. you may have taken a powder by

then. this was very late. basically, it's all right if we polarize, we have a liberal party, we have a conservative party, like most of europe, people join the party of their ideology. that works in a parliamentary system, rotating governments, they mess up, the conservatives come in, you go back and forth. it works. but if you have a system which is presidential, you only get things through if one part of the president, 60 votes in the senate, nothing gets done. we're creating a polarized system in the american constitution. >> unless, unless you create a third party. unless you -- >> how does that work? that's even less possible. >> you see, its happening in the cycle. if trump is not the nominee and leaves the party, you get a third party. >> bernie, like everybody else, he has an appeal.

i said to senator sanders, i live inside the belt way. i said wait a minute. pass all the laws in the belt way. the exciting candidate, young, but the minute you get there, you're going to face mitch mcconnell and all those people will say no. then where are we at? >> this is trump's appeal. trump's basic appeal is the government in washington is paralyzed, can't do anything, i am the leader, who will decide everything. i will get a mass movement to force change. >> that has worked in the past. >> that is working. >> that's where you had -- when nothing works, you bring in the man on the horse. >> i lived in argentina for four years, right after argentina had returned from democratic after military ruins, tens of thousands of people were killed. we're not there, okay. we're not there. but you could argue, one could

argue that donald trump, there is a step in that direction, that he destabilizes our political system in some way. but we are bigger than donald trump. we are. >> i like that. we are the world. please come back, andrew. welcome back. >> cheers. >> welcome bat, cotter. any way, as always, gene robinson, sobriety. we await donald trump to take the stage out on the island, his first public event. he got hammered last night in wisconsin. we're going to hear what he has to say. also coming up, the escalating battle in new york between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, a battle could go either way. clinton is now questioning sanders credentials as a democratic.

she's getting personal, skewers his position on guns. look at that. the battle is on. this is "hardball," the place for politics. we needed 30 new hires for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. (announcer) over 400,000 businesses have already used ziprecruiter. and now you can use ziprecruiter for free. go to ziprecruiter.com/offer99 get one of our right best deals ever.... ....for just $9.99 you can get any large pizza with up to five toppings pile on your favorites with up to five toppings for just $9.99 better ingredients. better pizza. papajohns.com

well, we're waiting now for donald trump to take the stage in long island, his first public appearance since his double digit loss in wisconsin. here he is, donald trump.

thank you, thank you, everybody. unbelievable. unbelievable. thank you so much. thank you, everybody. thank you very much. thank you. thank you very much. first of all, it's great to be home.

this is home. it's great to be home. we love new york. we love new york, and we are altogether, going to make america great again, folks. so i was driving over from manhattan, and i passed queens, i love queens. do we have a lot of queens? i love -- i grew up in queens. i grew up in queens. and i used to play -- you know, i used to get here at like 2:00 in the morning to play a round of golf at bethpage, you know what i mean, right? but i love this city. and i love this country. we are going to start winning again with our country, because we don't win, we never win, we never, ever win any more. we don't win with our military. we don't win on trade.

we don't win on health care. we don't win on anything. we are going to start winning again, folks. so incoming up, i said to myself and i said to some of the people, when we're in the car, i said you know, i'm self-funding my campaign. i'm putting my own money in, right. and all of these people that are running for office, they're like off the trough. they take money in from all the special interests, where they can't make proper transactions for you. and that's going to stop. it's going to stop. you look, you look at what is happening -- i love you too. i love -- i love these people. these are my people. man.

i've got so many family members here today. look at that. boy oh boy. my sons and my daughter. did a ivanka do a good job? you know, she had a baby like five days ago. so she did a good job. so i should not say ivanka, you're fired. somebody else would say, that's a tough crowd. it is. we love you, people. we love you. we love. so here is what we're doing. on june 16th, i came out and i said and it's not easy to do. it takes guts. i came down the escalator with melania, i took a deep breath

and it was all about trade, it was all about borders, all sorts of things. and today, it's that. but it's also about our military, we can't beat isis. we're going to knock the hell out of isis. believe me. can you imagine what our great generals, general george patton, general douglas mcarthur, can you imagine what they would be saying if they saw what's going on with what we're doing and the way we fight. we don't fight like people from long island. we don't fight like people from new york. so we're going to rebuild our military.

it's totally depleted. we know it. they don't like talking about it. we are going to rebuild our military. it's going to be bigger and better, and stronger than ever before. and nobody is going to mess with us. nobody. and very, very important. we're going to take care of our vets. our vets are not taken care of. so our country owes now $19 trillion. we owe trillions to china, we owe trillions to japan. the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. it's going to change around. it's going to change quickly. we're going to renegotiate our trade deals in china. the case of china, $500 billion trade deficit every single year. it's going to end. mexico, i love the mexican people. i love hispanics. i love hispanics.

they're unbelievable people. we have now $58 billion trade deficit with mexico. and our businesses, sadly, are leaving our country, going to other countries. they're leaving our jobs in long island. you know it better than almost anybody. our companies are being uprooted, taken out. they're moving to mexico. they're moving to other countries. everybody is looking for jobs, and you know what? we're going to end the practice. we're going to keep our companies here and we're bringing companies back to the united states. we are going to have a strong border.

we are going to build the wall. it will be a real wall. a real wall. are you ready? are you ready? are you ready? who is going to pay for the wall? mexico. >> who? >> mexico. >> by the way, 100%. when these politicians come up, they say you can't get mexico to pay. i put out a plan three days ago. so easy, when we're losing $58 billion a year in trade deficits, the wall will cost $10 billion, folks, how easy is that? it's going to happen, okay. it's going to happen. 100%. it's going to happen. go ahead.

>> it never changes. hey, new york is called new york. it never, ever will change. so what has happened, and very strongly what has happened, we are going to have those strong borders, just as you saw last week. the border patrol, 16,500 people in the border patrol, endorsed and i didn't even ask, endorsed donald trump for president. the first time they've ever done it. they've never endorsed anybody

for president. but they want to have strong borders. and you know what, i thought to myself, has anybody heard the snake? has anyone heard of it? have you heard? should we do it? should we do it? all right. the main thing, can you hear me all the way in the back? can you hear me? can anybody not hear me clearly? all right. i want to thank my brother, my cousins, my nephews, my beautiful daughter-in-laws, mu son, wonderful ivanka, as you know, they all came to see this. i mean, they can't even believe it. you know, you know, lying ted cruz came today. it was a big headline today in the new york post.

he couldn't draw 100 people. now, do you remember, do you remember -- do you remember during the debate, when he started lecturing me on new york values, like we're no good. like we're no good. and i started talking to him about the world trade center, the bravery, incredible bravery of everybody, our police, firemen, everybody. better believe it. better believe it.

so i looked at him and started talking about our incredible police, our incredible firefighters. our incredible people, our unbelievable construction workers, who could have done that? who could have rebuilt that hole. there was never anything like it in this country. the worst attack in the history of the united states. the bravery that was shown was incredible. we all lived through it. we all know people that died. i've got this guy standing over there looking at me, talking about new york values, with hatred. with hatred of new york. so, folks, i think you can forget about him. forget about him.

he is lying ted. i came up with the idea. you have to spell it right. it's lyin, he holds up the bible, puts it down and then he lies. he lies like crazy. but most of the time, i win the evangelical vote. the evangelicals, the christians like donald trump. i am a straight shooter. i shoot straight. like new yorkers. we shoot straight. you have another one running, he was in favor of nafta. do you remember that? kasich. kasich. he is now 0/32, except he won his state. he's like 1/33.

he just, he won't leave. that's okay. you know what, he is a nice guy. let him keep going. it's okay. it's all right. but both of them, and this is so serious. both of them, we have a deal under negotiation, being negotiated by president obama, which you immediately know it's going to be a bad deal. a bad deal. don't forget. obama negotiated the iran deal. one of the worst deals ever, ever, ever negotiated. so what we have -- thank you, darling. i love, screaming love, i love you trump. i love you, trump. thank you. thank you. i love you. i love you. i do. so both of them want tpp, which is trans pacific partnership. it is a disastrous deal. it will suck the blood out of new york, suck the blood out of

our country. both of them want it to happen. i'm going to fight it and we're going to stop it. we're not going to let it happen. we have enough bad deals. this deal would be catastrophic. so look, let me just tell you a couple of things. so we have to bring our jobs back to this country. we have to stop making horrible trade deals. we have the greatest business people in the world. in the united states. i know many of them. i know the good ones, the bad ones, the overrated ones. i know, and the underrated ones. people you've never heard of. who are phenomenal. >> that's donald trump, he obviously had a good night's sleep. he is acting as if he didn't lose anything. the comments he has made about different topics. clearly acting like he had been through a happy time the last couple of times, when in fact,

he got drubbed in wisconsin. he was able to fill the room with more than 10,000 people, not only with him, but chanting ahead of him, with build the wall, and of course, lying ted. talk about the democrats when we come back, and a much closer race. hillary clinton is really getting threatened. she is in jeopardy. this is going to be one heck of a battle to see who wins in new york. that will put hillary in trouble. so we're going to be right back and talk to some smart people about the democrats. right back in a minute. we needed 30 new hires for our call center.

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donald trump was talking about hillary clinton right now. but after a big win for bernie sanders last night in his crowd in wisconsin, the fight for the democratic fight in new york has moved to new york, of course. in two weeks now. hillary clinton maintains a 12 point lead in new york according to a quinnipiac poll from last week. but sanders leads two points nationally, according to new numbers. sanders leading nationally. what an amazing turn around. last night's results, what looks like a grudge match coming up in new york, has hillary clinton swinging away for the democratic nomination. she questioned whether bernie sanders is even a democratic. watch hillary. >> when he puts his head on the pillow at night, do you think he goes to sleep a democratic? >> well, i can't answer that, gren, because he is a relatively new democratic, and in fact, i'm not even sure he is one. he is running as one.

so i don't know quite how to characterize him. i'll leave that to him. i have been campaigning for democrats, fundraising for democrats, recruiting democrats, to run and win for a really long time. i think about 40 years. and senator sanders by his own admission has never even been a democratic. >> in a recent interview, bernie sanders was asked whether family members of the sandy hook victims should be allowed to sue gun manufacturers. here is his response. >> a case to be ruled on in connecticut, the victims of the sandy hook massacre are looking to have the right to sue for damages the manufacturers of the weapons. do you think that's something that should be expanded? >> well, i think the crime with a gun should be able to sue the manufacturer, is that your question.

>> correct. >> no, i don't. >> clinton said she was appalled at sanders' remarks. >> i was appalled that senator sanders didn't see any reason for the children massacred to sue the gun makers. i absolutely disagree. >> well, chris murphy is here right now. a democratic from connecticut. john is an opinion writer with the "washington post." the issues are the issues. hillary clinton now, after all these months of campaigning against bernie sanders, with soft gloves on, she is taking them off and hitting them personal whether he is a democratic, whether he knows anything about breaking apart the big banks. she is is worried. >> well, you know, it's unclear to me why bernie can't come out and be clear about what his position on guns is. i mean, the fact is -- he says he is not for suing manufacturers.

>> right now, he is standing in clear opposition to the families of sandy hook who want to be able to contest their case in court. he is saying they should be barred from making that case. now, the connecticut primary is not far after the new york primary. and you are not going to win connecticut if you are not 100% in on the fight against the gun lobby. i don't think you'll win a primary in new york if you're not 100% in. this is an increasingly important distinction between the two, because bernie is intentionally not trying to close that gap. >> why is he pro gun? >> i assume -- >> is it vermont, local politics. >> i assume it's where he is from. 80% of vermonters will be for the kind of things that we're for, background checks, this doesn't divide folks in new england. i think it's curious as to why he continues to feel the need to defend the gun industries immunity in our legal system. it just is beyond me. >> let's take another point. hillary clinton has never tried to right bernie out of the party.

she has decided after all these months, that being a socialist isn't good enough, being a democratic socialist isn't good enough, being a democratic socialist is not good enough. all of a sudden, she is afraid. >> well, all of a sudden, because everything is on the line on april 19th, in the new york primary. she has to win new york. it's her home state. she was elected senator twice in that state. and you know, the other reason why she is hammering away on this is because the upcoming primaries, new york, pennsylvania and others, are closed primaries. democrats can vote in those primaries. she wants to remind them that yes, bernie sanders caucuses with the democrats, even though -- >> i've talked to everybody i bump into. nobody cares whether bernie sanders is a democratic socialist in the democratic party. they don't care. >> i don't think nobody cares. i think people care. >> they think he is more progressive than her, in other

words, better than her. a lot of people do. look at these numbers all of a sudden. >> sure, look at the numbers. it is a harsh critique on senator sanders. he is out there already saying that, well, you know, one of the reasons i ran as a democratic and not as an independent because i would get more media attention. so, i mean, you can question whether it's the right thing or -- >> that sounds pretty crass by the way. the only way i'm using it is for a vehicle. >> well, yes, i want to use the party. look at it this way, chris. we're looking at a senator who signed an agreement to do fund-raisers for the national party for money that it will need to help the ballot races he has not raised a dime. meanwhile, he is running away every speech for the big money -- >> when you start talking like you're talking, and i talk this way too, you sound like you're 80 years old. cbs news has quoted, asked bernie sanders about calls for him to apologize to sandy hook victims.

he said maybe hillary clinton should apologize to iraq war victims. this is getting rough. >> yeah i think this is a horrible mistake, the victims of the iraq war, right. sandy hook families are not a political play, a political pawn to be thrown around in this kind of casual way, and i just don't think it's smart for him to double down on his opposition to the sandy hook families ability to contest a case in court. but being on the opposite side of those families as they try to be made whole, and throwing away casual references. >> okay, senator, you worked with bernie sanders, here is your chance to tell us something we don't know. the question is, does he know what he is talking about, i'm going to get rid of big banks, how are you going to do it. he made this vague reference to dodd frank, but he didn't seem

to have thought through, he didn't see to have thought through how to do the one thing that most young people especially like the sound of, which is getting the big banks down to size. does he know what he is talking about legislatively? has he impressed you with his knowledge of system in. >> he has had the last decade to propose a piece of legislation that would do exactly what he is proposing to be done. he hasn't done it. so you can just simply look at his time in the senate and suggest that there a disconnect between the rhetoric and the reality. you don't have to get an insider's take to understand

there isn't any plan on the table. >> we're all gesturing now, insider's take. he said i was inside the belt way. everybody is learning bernie's gestures. the question is, trump or anybody else, trump is not a politician, bernie is. at some point, you've got to ask have you thought through what you're promising. >> that's what my former colleagues on the editorial board are trying to get at. you're running this for two years, the basis of your campaign. if you cannot explain it tous in clear, simple language. >> you know why? because people at rallies don't ask politicians to explain anything. they yell build the wall, lyin' ted, they don't explain, mr. trump, how are you going to do this. it's not about ideas, it's about applause lines. up next, back to our top story of the night. can bernie sanders come back from his bruising loss. he is like monty python. the results and the contested convention in cleveland, looks like it's heading our way. a real, old time convention. you don't know who will win when you go into it. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

i've got this guy standing over there, looking at me, talking about new york values, with hatred of new york. so, folks, i think you can forget about him. welcome back to "hardball," that was donald trump just a few minutes ago, talking about ted cruz at a rally from new york out on long island, 13 point loss to cruz, may be his path to the nomination, however. a new monmouth poll in the empire state, that's new york, shows trump leading with 52%. john kasich pulled into second with 25%. cruz down at 17%. the guy he's mashing there. cruz disparaged trump years ago

for having, this is a killer, new york values, is fighting an uphill battle on his opponent's turf. here's how cruz answered for his earlier today with nbc's hallie jackson. attack on new york culture this is going to be really lame to listen to. >> reporter: 2 1/2 months ago you railed against new york values. how do you expect to do well in this state or win if that's your goal? >> the interesting thing about polling is it can change and change quickly. let's be clear. the people of new york know exactly what those values are. they're the values of liberal democratic politicians like andrew cuomo, like anthony weiner, like eliot spitzer, like charlie rangel. all of whom donald trump has supported, given tens of thousands of dollars throughout the years. >> i'm joined by our round table, april ryan for american urban radio networks, david corn is washington bureau chief for "meagan jones" and meagan murphy with "bloomberg" news. you have a new york connection. i'm not sure about you. >> i have a new york connection.

family. >> let's go with corn on this one. this new york values thing was not hyphenated or contextualized. he took a shot at a guy from new york because to him, new york's bad news and now he's trying to say, i only meant anthony weiner? >> yeah, no, no, no. we knew -- we in new york, people from new york knew what he was meant. when he was campaigning for social conservative voters, evangelical voters and he was trying to take -- >> the aspect to it, by the way. let's not kid ourseourselves. >> and a religious aspect. let's not kid ourselves. you can hear whatever you want to hear or not which is why it works so well to him. the question is as we come to new york, this is not a referendum on cruz. this is a referendum on donald trump. he's turned the race into what he wants. >> if he wins new york, connecticut, pennsylvania, he's back in the saddle. >> he'll probably end up with the plurality of delegates. the question is how close will

he get to 1, 237? >> does this change the basic question? will the big shots and other delegates deny him a victory if he's short of the cup, 100 votes short, 50, whatever the gimmy is, they're going to say, sorry, get in the cup or are they going to say let's be reasonable, you're so far ahead of cruz, we can't deny it to you. >> if it's 50, that's one thing, if it's 200 that's a whole different story. a lot of senior republicans are saying the number is 1,237. >> has that number changed what they'll give them? the other stuff he said the last couple weeks, whether i wonder if that makes them less likely to give him a gimmy and more likely to say tough, no cigar? >> it's always been a referendum on trump. >> not when there were 17 people in the race. >> the issue is people aren't buying what he's saying. when a picture of strength, a picture of security, when he was a picture of anything but the white house, anything but establishment washington. what happened is his missteps over the past two weeks hurt him? it's the referendum he's now losing and whether he can come back --

>> april? >> he had missteps even before the last two weeks. let's go back to barack obama. i mean, barack obama is a black man. people don't like to deal with the racial aspect. let's go to john mccain. john mccain, a prisoner of war, a veteran. i was shocked the veterans did not get up in arms with trump. then let's talk about megyn kelly. blood coming out of wherever. let's talk about so many things. a reporter, the reporter had a pen. you know, really to be honest with you, the person who pulled the reporter should have actually stepped down from the job so it wouldn't take away from donald trump. what's all this other stuff? the racial aspect. today listening to donald trump talk about ted cruz cannot rebuild this hole. that's more than a hole. that's for people who lost family members there, and for many in this nation, that is sacred ground. you can't just call it a hole. donald trump is an accident waiting to happen. >> what's the hole?

>> the 9/11 memorial, the world trade center. he just said that a moment ago. >> why are they cheering? >> donald trump? >> i'm watching them cheer. throwing lines like build the wall, lyin' ted. >> politics is personal and many people in different segments of society feel disenfranchised. he's speaking their language, the people in there and some around the country. >> are they working class guys on long island? i think they're pretty much middle class out there. >> new york has a lot of suburban republican voters who don't like cruz and they're not going to like donald trump. it's not -- i think it's different than the suburbs of milwaukee which are probably more conservative. westchester county where i came from, republicans i know there, they may even turn to kasich. in fact, kasich staying in the race, you know, could help, you know, trump in a way. >> what about all the conservative areas around the boroughs? they call them the -- you know, they always put it down, the peripheral ethnic neighborhoods, usually italian-irish, irish-italian. i grew up with a lot of those

people. >> meagan murphy. >> they're all there, never quite make it with "the new york times" crowd but they're there. they're conservative party people, they're republicans. >> archie bunker. >> you just put them down. archie bunker? come on. >> they love when you do that, i'm from westchester. >> this is where kasich comes in because kasich is from a state that's a manufacturing state and has a lot of problems -- >> it's the only state he's won. >> but new york, texas, and california are manufacturing states and this is where kasich can make a good point. >> i think kasich is the vp for trump. anyway, we'll be right back. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. >> trump vice president. ing and not enough time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list.

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meagan murphy, tell me what trump's saying today. what's he saying to you? >> he's saying to me i'm getting back, i'm blowing by what happened here, going with my core message, i'm reorganized about what made me get here which is make america great again, delivering with my core demographic, working class voters who feel separated from what's going on in -- >> wisconsin wasn't my waterloo. thank withdrew. we have a couple murphys here tonight. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes," another chris, starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> wisconsin resoundingly rejected his campaign. >> the stop-trump forces prevail as a trump senior adviser reportedly threatens to quit. then after a big win in wisconsin, sanders sets his

sights on new york. >> do not tell secretary clinton she's getting a little nervous. >> as clinton attacks the heart of the sanders campaign. >> the core of his campaign has been break up the banks and it didn't seem in reading his answers that he understood exactly how that would work. >> we'll debate that with sanders' backer robert reich and clinton supporter barney frank. plus, why republicans care so much about voter i.d. laws. >> hillary clinton is about the weakest candidate the democrats have ever put up and i think photo i.d. is going to make a little bit of a different as well. and florida governor rick scott meets his constituents. >> [ bleep ]. you don't care about working people. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. donald trump may have suffered a