ls nitpicking. but i only had a salad. it was a buffalo chicken salad. salad. . >> we've updated math to make the equations more about stuff modern kids can relate to in a segment called popular mathematics. here we go. if you take bernie sanders, plus the spice girl, it equals old spice. if you take donald trump plus ted cruz plus john kasich it equals president hillary

clinton. [ cheers and applause ] >> all right, good morning. it's thursday, april 7. welcome to "morning joe" in washington. with us here we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. >> hello. >> did you do "way too early" today, too? >> no, that's why i feel fresh. >> you got to sleep in. msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steel. columnist in and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius. washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay and up in new york, of course, willie geist along with veteran columnist in and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. good to have you all on board. >> willie, it is -- the columns over the past couple days have just been gloriously predictable. dana milbank in the "washington post" says "the voters have spoken, never trump." "wisconsin has spoken." forget the fact that trump is over 30% in new york.

the "wall street journal" yesterday wrote donald trump's political obituary. and i think to prove just how weak trump's candidacy is, he packed in over 10,000 people in bethpage new york last night. >> i think it was more like 15. >> well, i think he had to turn some people away. but this is now no doubt, willie, just as we saw as they predicted in june, july, august, september, october, november, december and january this is the sign of a dying campaign. we knew it couldn't last. and the people of wisconsin have spoken and as we know, as goes oshkosh, so goes the rest of the world. >> he's obviously showed some weakness in wisconsin. he got beat pretty badly but he walked right into new york the next day, got that crowd on long island. his real clear average remains over 30 points. he's moving into his strengths and i would point you to one

cover since i have the new york tabloids with me. this is the "new york daily news." if you want the pulse of new york city, at least, here's what it says if we can grab this shot. i'll hold it right there. take the fu train, ted. if you don't live in new york, those are the symbols for the subway lines. >> right. okay. >> michael steele, we've been talking about it for some time, you can't even speak of political reality these days without people saying "you're on the trump train." no, everybody else is on the derangement train. to suggest wisconsin is dispositive from what happens here into the convention is extraordinarily stupid. i can't believe the stupid comments i heard last night on every network and i don't usually say the words, but just stupid. i define stupid as somebody saying the same thing nine months in a row and thinking

that if they just -- >> wait, can i just say something? gene robinson on all the networks was the voice of reason. >> god bless gene robinson. >> there were people going "it's going to be like nazi germany and it's going to be like argentina." >> there's violence everywhere. >> and gene was like, guys, i lived in argentina. we're not there. just take a deep breath. >> and no germany, either. despite the very good accent, joe. >> i filled miserably on ted cruz. >> i can do ted cruz. >> i can't do ted cruz. but all i'm asking for is straight reporting. >> it can't be done. >> don't let your hatred get away. >> we're past that. >> that doesn't mean he doesn't say finsive things, he says offensive things, i've written tough columns, as tough as anybody else. but our job is to report what is happening and not what we're begging and pleading and praying

and hoping will happen. >>. >> what you saw was the convergence of things coming together. that is not a donald trump base. so those republicans are not like the republicans you saw in earlier contests. they're closer to the establishment. exit polls somewhere like 53% think that the economy is in the wrong spot. there's a big difference in the mind-set there. but the media wants to write a narrative that they just can't -- that doesn't bear itself out in reality. >> because they've been wrong so long. >> they think if they just keep writing it, that's the way it is. the reality is you swing now into the strength of donald trump. this will be a test for him. i have to say, he has to do a

reset on his messaginmessaging. he has to stop in one sense talking to himself about his campaign and open it up more but that doesn't change the narrative. ted cruz with new york value is at 17%, david ignatius. >> new york is going to be decisive and we've gotten past wisconsin nice and we can all really focus. the one point i think i look at these numbers, the republicans are heading toward a real car wreck of a convention because there will be strong trump opponents to the verge of walking out if he wins the nomination and there will be strong trump supporters who will be furious and think they've been cheated if he doesn't. and this is the least attractive scenario, i would think, far major political party and that's

one that i don't think, joe, they'll be able to solve. >> i don't think they can solve it, either. you look at the rage and the hatred right now focused towards donald trump mainly it's coming, catty, from the right. mainly it's coming from the conservative establishment, so to speak, the people that conservatives have been reading and hearing and watching for the past 20 years. they seem to be the ones -- the most enraged if you go on your twitter feed and it's constant. >> and what's odd is that -- it's interesting you suggest david that this is the worst scenario is a breokered convention for the party but that party seems to be clinging to the hope of a brokered convention in the bid that this might throw them up paul ryan or -- >> but they might get ted cruz. >> imagine the emotions of trump supporters on the day after a brokered convention. >> totally agree.

we'll hear from ted cruz and donald trump in just a moment but first the gloves are off in the race for the democratic nomination. it got started yesterday right here on "morning joe" when joe asked hillary clinton in light of bernie sanders' recent interview with the "new york daily news" editorial board if her opponent is qualified to be president. >> so the question -- and i'm serious -- if you weren't running today and you looked at bernie sanders, would you say "this guy is ready to be president of the united states?" >> well, i think he hasn't done his home work and he'd been talking for more than a year about doing things that he obviously hadn't really studied or understood and that does raise a lot of questions. and really what it goes to is for voters to ask themselves can he deliver what he's talking about? and i will leave it to voters to decide who of us can do the job that the country needs. who can do all aspects of the

job, both on the economic domestic issues and on national security and foreign policy. >> all right. and then senator sanders said this at a rally last night in philadelphia. >> she has been saying lately that she thinks that i am quote/unquote not qualified to be president. [ boos ] let me just say in response to secretary clinton, i don't believe that she is qualified if she is -- [ cheers and applause ] if she is, through her super pac, taking tens of millions of dollars in special interest funds. [ cheers and applause ] i don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in iraq. [ cheers and applause ] i don't think you are qualified if you supported the panama free

trade agreement. [ cheers and applause ] something i very strongly opposed and which, as all of you know, has allowed corporations and wealthy people all over the world to avoid paying their taxes to their countries. >> late last night, clinton's press secretary brian fallon responded to those remarks on twitter saying. >> sanders did know such thing, his campaign released a statement that began -- that statement linked readers to

a "washington post" article with the headline "clinton questions whether sanders is qualified to be president" which cited secretary clinton's remarks on "morning joe." both candidates have news conferences scheduled for 9:00 this morning right after "morning joe." i feel like i'm in trouble. and bernie sanders will join us on set in new york tomorrow morning. >> mike barnicle, you were there with us. i tried to get hillary clinton four times -- three or four times to say that bernie sanders was unqualified to be president of the united states and just like my interview with rick santorum, you know, i start asking a question, i keep going until i get an answer or give up and after three or four attempts with secretary clinton i gave up because she was not going to say the words "he is unqualified to be president of the united states." was that your take away from the interview as well or am i missing something? >> she clearly did not say

bernie sanders was not qualified to be president and under senator sanders' logic in his comeback, is john kerry qualified to be secretary of state? because he, too, voted for many of the things that hillary clinton has cited in senator sanders' indictment. this is going to be a 12-day tension convention here in new york state between senator sanders and secretary clinton. and to the larger issue of what you were talking about just a few moments ago, there's a group of people in new york state who are going to be really the pivot point for what happens going forward with regard to donald trump, with regard to sanders, with regard to secretary clinton and they're called voters and they're going to vote a week from tuesday and they're going to be a better barometer of what's going on in this election in any polls we can put out or any claims or disclaimers that come back and forth between these two candidates. >> our members of the chattering classes on twitter -- >> she did say he didn't do his

home work. >> but she never said not qualified. >> and in her statement she rode that she said this. >> this whole thing is kind of absurd and it's fair to say hillary clinton is probably one of the more qualified on resume candidates for president that's come along in a while. that's not her problem. her problem is certain judgments she's made along the way. and as mike note, not just john kerry, barack obama did all the things bernie sanders questioned about qualification and he was elected president, therefore he's qualified. this is one of those exchanges that is so dumb, so tedious you start scratching your head. >> it also shows the elusive role of fact in this campaign. people are asserting things increasingly without any connection to solid fact. when donald trump accuses ted cruz of orchestrate ago super pac in violation of the law, he's just out there and there

don't seem to be facts to tie it to. same thing with the allegations about ted cruz's wife, whatever they were and now this allegation of being unqualified. it's a strange campaign where people say things and they act as if -- >> so this is a turn in terms of the democratic race. up until recently it hadn't gotten that person nasty but it's clear the two candidates and campaigns are grating on each other a little bit here. >> and willie, i'll say as well and i completely agree with david ignatius, i found it's slipping into a lot of the reporting. hyperbolic reporting not just on internet outlets but also mainstream media outlets trying to drive a narrative and there's always an overreach. there seems to be a factual overreach and we've pointed it out going back to june or july a story has taken and then conclusions are drawn on the front pages of newspapers and they end up helping the

candidates they're trying to destroy. >> watching that interview, i wasn't sitting here with you guys but i thought it was perhaps implied in her answer that he was not qualified to be president. she didn't say it explicitly but when you asked she laid out the reasons and made the case why he wouldn't be the best president. i think what we're seeing is the intersection of two things being thrust into this new york spotlight right now. one being her annoyance that he's still around and in this race. [ laughter ] and his being that she believe this is belongs to her and he ought to get out of the race. there's also a big fight between the two of them about this law he voted for that would not hold gun makers liable, the maker of the ar-15. she sent out a very tough tweet about him saying base clip that he should not be siding against families of sandy hook. so we're seeing this on many different levels and we're in for a long week and a half here. >> add to that, willie, general electric chairman and ceo jeff immelt is joining the chorus of critics blasting bernie sanders for that interview with the "new

york daily news." during the interview, sanders said ge is among the companies destroying the moral fabric of america by shutting down major plants in the u.s. and sending jobs to low wage countries. immelt responded yesterday with an on ned the washington which reads in part --

>> wow. >> ouch. >> david ignatius, that's scalding. i can tell you as a resident of a state that ran general electric because of prohibitive taxes and regulations, ge does have really good jobs with really good wages that any state in america would love to have. >> this is the manufacturer that bernie sanders has been dreaming would come more to america so for the head of it -- ouch. >> how many jobs did they send overseas, though? >> the one point i thought, joe and mika, about this whole flap is that the interview with bernie sanders by the "daily news," which started this whole thing, is a wonderful example of journal. they pins people down and the reason this makes news is the more the "daily news" tried to pin bernie sanders down on what these programs mean, breaking up big banks, new york's got big

banks, he had no answer. that kind of journalism, charlie sykes did in the wisconsin, that pushes candidate what is do you mean, what will it be like? >> and what bob woodward with donald trump in the "post," too. still ahead, pivot to new york. donald trump plays to a hometown crowd while ted cruz does his best to win over the bronx. as we mentioned, tomorrow senator bernie sanders joins us live in studio. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the radar after a night of violent storms. bill? montgomery county, alabama, was hit by what looks to be a tornado. the pictures shows huge trees that came down, a lot of homes have significant damage. hankfully we didn't hear any reports of any significant injuries or fatalities but as the sun comes up they'll try to see how bad it was. those storms raced last night through georgia, now south carolina. they just crossed i-95.

myrtle beach, will ming on tmine next in the line. a lot of rain up the east coast. we'll see travel days. at 9:00 a.m., the heaviest rain over the top of washington, d.c. down to richmond. by the time we get to 11:00 to noon, that's when the heaviest rains will arrive philadelphia and new york. it will be heavy enough rains and gusty winds that we will get airport delays. through the afternoon it moves up through new england from new york to boston. the other stories, the arctic cold. one more shot of really cold air comes down today the great lakes. this weekend into the northeast and it's going to be cold enough to even stick in snow in some areas. here's the snowfall forecast. this is mostly for saturday. one to three inches possible from cleveland to new york city. the roads will melt but you may get snow on your grass, the trees and car tops. just an ugly weekend in the northeast. new york city, a little warmer today but that rain is on the way. grab the umbrella. more "morning joe" when we come back.

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do you remember during the debate he started lecturing me

on new york values like we're no good? like we're no good. [ boos ] and i started talking to him about the world trade center, the bravery, the incredible bravery of everybody, our police, our firemen, our everybody. [ cheers and applause ] the worst attack in the history of the united states, the bravery that was shown was incredible, we all lived through it, we all know people that died and i've got this guy standing over there looking at me talking about new york values with scorn on his face, with hatred, with hatred of new york. so, folks, i think you can forget about him. [ crowd chanting "lying today" ] >> i came up with the idea.

you have to spell it right, it's l y-i-n', bible held high, he puts it down and then he lies. >> the bible held high. >> look at that crowd in his home state of new york. some estimates from inside the campaign say that 35,000 people rsvp'd. they could only let 10,000 in. his kickoff drew many more than 10,000 people on that island. >> sam stein, look at. >> that looks like an inviting place. >> meanwhile, ted cruz was in new york at the same time fresh off his win in wisconsin. he met the city's press corps while campaigning in the bronx and addressed the elephant in the room. >> the people onew york know exactly what those values are, they're the values of liberal democratic politicians like andrew cuomo, like anthony weiner, like eliot spitzer, like charlie wrangrangel all of whom

donald trump has supported, given tens of thousands of dollars throughout the year. if you want to know what liberal democratic values are, follow donald trump's checkbook. the actions of people like mayor bill de blasio who in every time there is a confrontation between criminals and police officers, the liberal democrats side with the criminals and the looters and the rioters rather than the police officers. i'll tell you, the moment when the brave men and women in blue of the nypd stood up and turned their backs on mayor bill de blasio, i cheered for those new york cops and i'll tell you, people all across america did. that spoke to the entire country that when you have politicians that will not stand with police officers and firefighters and first responders and, for that matter, soldiers and sailors and airmen and marines, that's an example of how these liberal politicians have forgotten who we are. i'll tell you, as president i will always stand with the police officers and the firefighters and the first

responders. >> you know, willie geist -- >> is it lying ted or pandering ted? [ laughter ] pandering ted, but you have to say -- >> he said it's l-y-i-n' with the bible held high. he's even got a rhyme. so will we expect a bill de blasio press conference or commissioner bratton? another thing, too, a bit inconvenient to bill de blasio and commissioner bratton and the rest of the nypd leadership always siding with the criminals, i think i saw something a couple days ago showing new york city's murder rate at record lows. so i don't know if you heard -- >> boy, that mayor is doing a terrible job. >> i don't know about donald's speech but his line when he started talking about new york values blew the roof off of that convention center in bethpage. >> it was one of the best

moments when he originally made the point, right when ted cruz made the new york values comment and it worked again last night. barnicle and i were watching those two events. donald trump could not possibly be more in his element than he was last night. those are his people. he's a new york guy, he's on long island, the accent got thicker on donald. they know him, he knows them. contrast that with ted cruz in the bronx where he was heckled at the restaurant. he went to a college prep academy in the bronx, a bunch of students walked out, they were yelling at him for being anti-immigrant. the polls reflect what i'm going to say here but i think this might not be ted cruz's state. >> and back to the trauump rall. you can't mention it without mentioning who introduced him, ivanka who i think had a baby like maybe yesterday looking incredible. the crowd goes wild and he's like "look at ivanka a week ago,

i'm not going to say you're fired." and the crowd went wild. sorry, it's just -- >> i've got to give ted cruz some credit, right? >> for what? >> for even showing up. >> because this is not going to end well in new york for ted cruz but he's going throughout. >> he ought to do shakespeare in the park. that would be great. >> that would be amazing. >> john kasich will outpace ted cruz here in new york. he's going to do better. he's going 25%. >> but kasich is lingering too long. >> accumulation, grab what you can get in every state. >> but he's not going to get anything. >> but that doesn't matter. he's going try -- >> he'll do better than ted cruz. >> and what does that matter if you don't get any delegates. >> what matters is that you're trying to take delegates away from donald trump. >> that you stay in. >> that's why i don't understand why ted cruz is desperate for john kasich to get out. ted cruz is not going to get to

1237 so his only chance is to get to the brokered convention. the best chance of that is to take delegates away from donald trump. if john kasich could do that in new york, it makes sense. >> at least in new york state he will be taking away from donald trump and it's proportional. who knows, maybe he can get close to the -- to what cruz got in wisconsin. that's not a bad night as far as numbers go. willie geist, explain how donald trump came out. for people that don't live in new york city, that don't understand the boroughs and understand the stark difference between, say, manhattan, staten island, long island, queens and everything. i thought it was very interesting. donald trump has always had a chip on his shoulder because he was a queens guy that came into manhattan and grayden carter all these years later still calling him an outer borough guy. of course, grayden is from canada so i'm not sure where he gets off saying that. but calls him an outer boroughs

guy but you could see as you've said with that thick accent that despite the fact that wherever donald trump goes, "hey, puerto rico, i love puerto rico. i have lots of friends here." he's said that wherever he goes. last night you could tell he was at home base with a crowd that he was most comfortable with and was most comfortable with him. >> yeah, i think most people watching the show understand the difference between manhattan and queens and brooklyn which have great diversity in their own right but he's a product of queens. a product of the kind of people you saw in that room on long island, white working class voters who support him. i think what you see in new york is a microcosm of what you're seeing at large in this race which is that he speaks to the kind of people who were in that room last night and they know donald trump. he's been in their lives for 30, 35 years now. he's been on the front page. for some people that's a bad thing. for people like that, people in outer boroughs, a lot of people in manhattan, to be honest with

you, they love what they see in donald trump and he excites them and represents new york the way they want it represented. >> joe and me caimika, willie a want to go on record. now that donald trump is playing a home game, he's home, willie and i are willing to pay exorbitant entertainment tax to follow donald trump and ted cruz over the next 12 days because it's going to be incredible. to the point where it might reduce the coverage that hillary clinton and bernie sanders get. >> oh, my gosh. >> i actually think ted cruz may decide after a couple days to go to pennsylvania. >> yeah. >> the best part about the speech last night was he's sitting there in bethpage which has a great golf course talking about how he would go there, what, 3:00 in the morning? now let's be honest, donald trump could probably go and play bethpage wherever he wants to play because he's rich but he related to those guys because you can go there early in the morning and wait to get on the court like everybody else. >> and by the way, i bet you growing up, for people that don't know, we're getting deep

in the weeds here, but bethpage has one of the best courses in america. bethpage black is actually the course that made john daley start drying again. [ laughter ] from what i hear. it's an extraordinary course and the most remarkable thing about it, i'm a horrible golfer but i played it, it's so beautiful i've played it three or four times, it's a public course. >> but you have to wake up early to get there. >> if you want to play there, you wake up and get there and line up in your car at 2:00 in the morning and you sleep. so you're exactly right. he's at home. >> there's no way. >> i guarantee you growing up donald trump did that. >> no. >> his dad didn't seem like the kind of guy that goes "donnie boy, i'll make a call for you." >> donald trump did not get in his car and wait at 2:00 a.m. but when he says it -- >> i guarantee you when he was younger he probably did. there's no other way to get on the course. i know. >> that's the identifier.

>> seriously , i can calm some country clubs and say i'd love to get on and play. bethpage black, you know what they say? no. >> you know something about the crowd? you look at that crowd, i'm thinking it's 70% men and 90% white. so it's worth defining what these big crowds look like. they do not look like the rest of the count rinchts i was noticing that. >> or the rest of new york. >> look at the exit poll numbers in wisconsin. you had 55% of republicans leaving the polls saying they were concerned or scared about donald trump. >> those numbers are still there. >> a fascinating fabric of voters. >> you look at the different states and you had to look at the different states as party chair. you look at wisconsin and then you look at new york, long island, upstate new york, radically different than the type of voters in wisconsin or minnesota. it's not a coincidence. rubio won minnesota. if rubio stayed in the rates, he would have won wisconsin. wisconsin is the type of state

that marco rubio would have won. unfortunately for marco rubio there are only like two states like that left in america. i'm serious. on the republican side. >> very true. >> you're talking about south carolina, the deep south, you know, long island, upstate new york look like most republican voters -- white, working class, populist. >> now that point, joe, look at what's happening in the south. virginia, north dakota, south dakota, georgia, are now -- they're no longer the bellwether for the gop that -- they're changing demographically, they're changing culturally and the party has the problem of adapting to this new environment. and what donald trump has been able to do for good or ill has been able to find that connection with a lot of folks who've sat on the sidelines, who've been on the bench, who's moved away from the party, are starting to come back in. yes, they're largely white men. but, again -- >> and he can't win with just white men. >> he can't win with just white men, that's true. >> there was a poll in

mississippi that showed him leading hillary clinton by three points, in mississippi. i mean, that would be a really incredible -- >> and by the way, if donald trump ends up running against hillary clinton, i will be glad to take all bets that he will win by ten points or more. that's the thing. this is silly season right now. we have a lot of people talking. i guarantee you, the wisconsin polls were wrong a day off. john kasich is running around saying "i'm the guy that gets the --" guess what? he's not going to get there. donald trump's two biggest problem, kat katty kay, women a hispanics. the must-read opinion pages are with us. straight ahead on "morning joe." why do so many businesses rely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. you're saying katty was listening to alex? >> yes, because when people yell in our ears and say "follow directions" we follow directions. men don't. >> no! come on! [ laughter ] >> i asked katty a question and she said "yes." >> i assume alex knows the job and knows what will make the show look good and work well. >> men don't. they just don't. >> occasionally we don't, but it's like a conscious effort, "i'm going to ignore the directions in my ear." >> and then it's in your head. >> it's like driving directions. >> you don't have to ask them, we're not lost. >> i think it's a talent that

you're able to block people out and forget everything. must-read opinion pages are next, including the "wall street journal's" lament that the five remaining candidates for president are apparently the best the country can come up with. "morning joe" is back in a minute on that note. man: dear mr. danoff, my wife and i are now participating in your mutual fund. we invested in your fund to help us pay for a college education for our son.

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you know, i hahave now, twi, 7.5 million people. facebook i have like close to seven million or more than seven million people, with instagram we have like two million. so i have like 16, 17 million people. that's likelosses. why should i give it up. >> okay, there's that. forget fireside chats or whistle-stop train tours, modern-day campaigning is all about social media. new polling conducted for buzzfeed shows a whopping 92% of those who say they'll definitely

vote in 2016 have at least one social media account and 40% say they share political news and information on a daily or weekly basis. that is critical for campaigns looking to spread a candidates' message. for more people trust information sent by a friend compared to info from an online news service or from the candidates themselves. it's no surprise campaigns are modeling themselves after online sites that boast thousands of politically active users. joining us now, columnist in at the washington examiner kristen soltis anderson, her company co-conducted the project for buzzfeed, investigating the role of social media in today's politics. good to have you on board. >> thank you for having me. >> what did you find that goes beyond what we're talking about here. it's pretty large. especially for donald trump. he does an instagram and that's it. >> we sometimes can laugh at these things because it seems so unusual. we're so used to thinking about people -- politicians reaching

their voters through traditional means. they run ads on television, drop a couple thousand points in a key media market and that's how you win the election. what we're increasingly finding is that 140 characters on twitter can be just as powerful if not more so in the right hands. now days you have declining trust in big institutions, particularly among younger voters so when they get something from a traditional news source that a friend has shared it comes with a kind of good housekeeping seal of approval. that's why the social sharing of news stories even from traditional sources is such an important thing shaping minds this election. >> we're talking about facebook, twitter, instagram. a lot of 2 candidates donald trump tops them all, know, have accounts and get information out that way. >> and part of what has helped donald trump is that he's had this brand built up over decades, he's built up a following through his work in the entertainment industry. >> i think that's the story the media missed. >> that donald trump has been skilled at story telling and entertaining and branding and so people feel like they know

donald trump. >> correct. >> what's remarkable is i heard a story that a younger member of the organization came to him a year or two ago and said "you need to get active in this stuff." and it started up that quickly. >> he sort of understands that now with the way social media has reshaped the news cycle, the need to be entertaining and engaging has become almost paramount. that if you put out a policy paper that maybe has nice substance in it but isn't particularly captivating it's not going to get shared by seven million people on twitter. >> kristen, how does it change campaign financing? one thing donald trump hasn't done is spent a fortune on tv ads. is there a correlation there? >> enough traditional model of we need as much money as possible to spend money on television ads but donald trump is able to used earned media, he does something that packs a big punch on social media and we talk about it all morning and it reaches those millions of viewers. >> at a cost of -- >> therein lies donald trump's success. everybody acts like oh,

everybody is just following donald trump because they want big ratings. no it's like a circle of life. if donald trump puts up an instagram piece that has bill clinton and bill cosby and puts it throughout for free, you're going to report on it, all the other sites are going to report on it. if john kasich puts out his three point plan to take care of carried interest, nobody will pick it up. social media by itself doesn't move the meter. social media done in a provocative way, i'm not just saying being offensive or blunt, but done in a provocative way bernie sanders does it as well. >> if i may i think you're saying you're trying to create a

moment. >> i wasn't trying to say that as all. [ laughter ] >> rand paul is talking about his desire to simplify the tax code but what he did was grabbed a blowtorch and blowtorch it had irs code to create a moment. the best example was when chris christie had been talking about issues of opioid addiction and pain medicine addiction and it hadn't taken off but when you saw in a video and it was put on our site it was shared seven million times and i remember after that other campaigns came to us and were like hey, can we get you guys to follow us around and do video? they wanted to be part of a moment people shared and that was the best vehicle for moving policy descriptions. it wasn't those three-point plans, it wasn't television advertisements. >> so will it bring down money in advertising? political money in advertising? >> not at all. >> there are too many people invested in the old way of doing

it. >> for the moment. >> well, as long as major donors continue to stroke the check far 30-second ad through super pacs or however vehicle. >> because you can do both. you won't watch another campaign go up with millions in ads and not do anything in response. >> unless you're donald trump. >> unless you're donald trump. >> and here's the thing, donald trump, people are trying to project forward sometimes too many lessons from 2016 donald trump is a one off like barack obama was a one off like ronald reagan was a one off. >> unless all our candidates are celebrities who already have brand poll lotion in trecogniti >> if kanye step us there the door he might have to buy 30 second ads in cleveland. >> here's what what joseph epstein writes in the "wall street journal."

>> what? >> i would just argue you probably didn't want to watch politics back in 1992. but go ahead. >> especially 1998/1999. i know i had kids in middle

school that was beyond -- >> let's not pretend some of this stuff is new and suddenly vulgar because it's donald trump because -- >> no, there was vulgarity -- >> vulgar people come in different shapes and sizes. >> so katty, in britain it's a shorter campaign. is it -- do you find more qualified people jumping in there or not? >> it's very different. it's a five-week campaign but you run as leader of your party so you're not running as a persona. we're not elected david cameron. we are electing the conservative party. and we've become more american through tv advertising and rallies and that kind of thing, and debates which are only new in britain, but we're not at the stage where we -- a big outsized personality can dominate the debate in the same way it can here. >> so you're saying boris isn't going to be the next prime minister? >> that will depend on whether we pull out of europe or not. >> desperately want him. i love the hair. >> to some extent, i've often thought in past campaigns it's surprising that the candidates

are not better. you can look at 2004 and john kerry who was not a great presidential candidate, mitt romney in 2012 who was not and you kind of think 300 million people and this is the best the parties can come up with? these people are not going to win this election. but i think this time around we've seen plenty of engagement and plenty of talent on both sides, aing which you willy. >> so what's next? >> i think we have to get back to a place where parents are excited to tell their kids "you can grow up to be president one day." people no longer see going into politics as a noble profession, they're seeing the sorts of things that are being talked about in this op-ed and i think what's really particularly frustrating is that if you're the sort of person who's smart and wants to do good things, you now don't necessarily view public government service as the best way to do that. now, there's virtue in saying look, i'm going to start a company that tries to do good things the, i'm going to start a nonprofit but we need people who are the president of the united states who are qualified, who are experienced, who are intelligent and if all of a

sudden you have to spend your whole life fund raidsing, that's really unappealing. >> that's poisoned the whole thing. >> and put up with abuse online even before you step into the race. >> kristen, thank you very much. coming up, last night senator bernie sanders declared hillary clinton to be unqualified for president and it all started with a question we asked clinton yesterday right here on "morning joe." that's ahead. look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. and to connect us with thes twonderment of nature. with the tiger image, the saliva coming off

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welcome back to "morning joe" live in washington. it's thursday, april 7, happy birthday, mark. that's my brother. with us we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. columnist in and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius. and political reporter and msnbc

political analyst robert costa. in new york, willie geist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. donald trump, my take is first majority victory in a primary context next tuesday. a new monmouth university poll taken sunday through tuesday shows trump with a commanding lead, 52% over kasich at 25% and cruz at 17% and trump took his campaign to his home state of new york yesterday with a kickoff rally that drew more than 10,000 people on long island, his daughter ivanka, who gave birth to her third child last sunday opened the rally with a testament to his character. >> as a young girl growing up, my father always told me that i could do anything that i'd set my mind to. he taught us that we have a responsibility to do good and make a positive contribution. so i have a one-week-old son named theodore.

[ cheers and applause ] he is at home tonight. i will tell you, it was not easy to leave him for so much as a minute to be here. but it was incredibly important to me that i did. >> first of all, it's great to be home. this is home. great to be home. we love new york. i love this city and i love this country and we are going to start winning again with our country because we don't win, we never win, we never, ever win anymore. can you imagine what our great generals general george patton, general doug last macarthur, can you imagine what they'd be saying if they saw what's going on with what we're doing the way we fight. we don't people from long island. we don't fight like people from new york. >> and trump couldn't resist

going after ted cruz who attacked trump for his "new york values" during a january debate. >> do you remember during the debate when he started lecturing me on new york values, like we're no good. [ boos ] like we're no good. and i started talking to him about the world trade center, the bravery, the incredible bravery of everybody, our police, our firemen, our everybody. [ cheers and applause ] the worst attack in the history of the united states, the bravery that was shown was incredible, we all lived through it, we all know people that died and i've got this guy standing over there looking at me talking about new york values with scorn in his face. with hatred, with hatred of new york. [ boos ] so folks, i think you can forget about him. [ crowd chanting "lying ted" ]

>> he is lying ted. i came up with the idea, but you have to spell it right, it's l- l- l-y-i-n'. the bible held high, he puts it down and then he lies. [ laughter ] >> dear lord, willie geist, wow. wow. >> what is going on in the world. i still think it's pandering. >> the biggest wow is you heard the crowd actually chant "lying ted, lying ted." i mean, obviously a lot of the same people there were the ones that used to scream "darrow, darrow" when he walked in. there's some mets fans out there, my fan. there's some yankee fans but -- >> i would say on behalf of yankee fans, derek jeter, derek jeter. you can go either way with that one. >> anyway, yeah, the newspapers

joining in as well. ted cruz -- i'm serious, ted cruz may want to go to williamsport, pennsylvania, this afternoon. it may be safer than being in new york state for his political fortunes. >> it's been a tough start to the new york campaign for ted cruz. no question about it. he was heckled at a restaurant in the bronx, making his case, he was asked about that new york values question and his spin here is that he was talking about guys like eliot spitzer, anthony weiner and charlie rangel, people who donald trump has supported in the pest and not about the good people in front of him at that point or the people in that room with trump. here's what the "new york daily news" has to say this morning. i'll let it speak for itself there. a subway reference there. you watch that video of trump last night, that's a man in his element there. he said these are my people, i'm home and those are people who have been excited waiting if him to cocome here. we have a new monmouth poll that you showed here with a majority,

52% and ted cruz at 17%. donald trump by the way got together with his advisors in manhattan yesterday. politico reporting a power struggle in the trump campaign between campaign manager corey lewandowski and the strategist hired to marshal trump's convention strategy if we get the contested convention but it's reported to be demanding more authority. according to politico, lewandowski fired trup's top aide in colorado as the state's delegate selection began for communicating with man fort against lewandowski's instructions. cruz is seen as having the upper hand as the rest of colorado's delegates are spoken. manna fort. while the denv"denver post" rep tentative plans for trump to appear there fell through yesterday. the "washington post" reports trump will be hiring several "well known and seasoned operatives for his campaign." bob costa, talk through this a

little bit for us. obviously the trump campaign given what happened in wisconsin knows its path to 1237 gets more narrow by the day. they have to get serious about the possibility of a contested convention. >> here's the dynamic within the trump campaign. it was mid-march, trump was told he needed to do something to shore up his delegates. paul manafort met at trump tower. he lives at trump tower, has gotten to know trump over the years at that building and what they're trying to do is build a strategy for new york, of course, and also looking ahead to june for the california primary. based on my reporting, there won't be a public blood letting in the trump campaign some kind of manafort versus corey lewandowski. they're just trying to get back on track in wisconsin. they're trying to expand the circle continuing to hire. that core inner circle of

lewandowski, manafort, hope hicks and others, that remains. >> does donald trump realize he needs to expand? we certainly have heard the past week that his family is pushing him to be more presidential. his family is pressing him to play the game in a more traditional conventional manner. any evidence donald trump is listening to family members and people close to him? >> it's not so much the family members on the tone because they want him to be more presidential. my sources tell me it's been more eye opening for him to sit through meets with the republican national committee and sit through phone calls with old friends like roger stone and to hear when he looks at the delegate math and to have the cold reality of the math be presented to him and he recognizes at this point he's not going to do a shakeup, not like a reagan '80s shakeup but he'll sustain himself. one of the big decision he is has to make is california to really campaign in california and if you have to compete for

delegates there you usually have to go on the eairwaves. is trump going to spend the millions upon millions necessary to compete? that remains unanswered. >> speaking of california, you have these massive states. everybody is trying to say wisconsin is the be all end all. california was a state ted cruz was ahead in earlier but we just have a new poll out from california. 172 delegates are up for grabs exactly two months from today in california. the field poll finds trump in the lead 39% to ted cruz's 32%. back in january, ted cruz had a two-point edge over trump. john kasich is at 18% up from just one point in january. but trump is at a roegional disadvantage since california divides its delegates by congressional district and in heavily populated los angeles county which contains parts of 18 districts. trump is losing to cruise by 11

points. >> it's fascinating. you can get as many delegates out of nancy pelosi's district where there are three republicans, get three delegates, one person remember as you can in orange county. so this really takes a high level of skill. but donald trump in this state up -- what was it? 17 points since the last poll so certainly looks like he has momentum. >> well, this is the key thing, you hit on it. right now for the trump campaign this is where the rubber meets the road and this is where he's losing the real battle to ted cruz is on the ground. that organization that cruz has been able to put in place, a lot of people chided it early on said this is like voodoo science but it's working for him. we saw it play out in louisiana, georgia, virginia where trump won but cruz is walking away with the most delegates. california is going to be that one shop for him where he's got to get on the ground, he's going to have to spend the money in order to compete in those congressional districts effectively. >> the thing is, though, i don't think ted cruz -- does ted cruz

have the must be to run ads -- >> he's already put the organization in place, though. >> i'm just talking about -- when we're talking about moving those numbers statewide, you talk about new york state and california. that will deplete anybody. >> but this is the thing with ted cruz is that he has two super pacs, not just one, with some money in them and he is fund-raising fairly well, especially after wisconsin but his strategy is a clever one. he doesn't have to go for the 1237 delegates. he just has to make sure donald trump doesn't get them. so for him he can strategically go into different congressional districts in california to make sure that trump doesn't have a -- >> so like his endorsers. >> and when it's all done you go to these committee meetings, state party meetings, stack the delegates in your favor, you run the rules committee at the rnc convention, you set it up so when it gets to the floor you suddenly have the votes. >> mike barnicle, jump in. >> bob costa, as usual, put his

finger on a critical element to both trump's campaign and cruz's campaign, actually, in california. california is so different from every place that has been campaigning thus far. california has five major media markets -- san diego, los angeles, san francisco, sacrament sacramento, fresno, the inland empire. it will require an expenditure of money to get on tv. you can't just do free tv the way the donald trump has been prospering so far. you have to raise a lot of money to be on tv in order to get the votes to get to the delegate count. >> i'm curious in this debate within the advisors to the trump campaign that you've been reporting on what the different positions are. i assume that there's some advisors who say donald you've got to be more presidential, you've got to give more policy speeches, you've got to slow it down. and there are others who are saying, buddy, you're riding a rocket ship, keep doing what you're doing, go to your base, people are excited.

he's got to come out of new york with a big win. how does that debate go as near as you can tell? >> trump remains his own strategist and his own campaign manager. lewandowski by title is campaign manager, and he is. he runs the operations, he advises the candidate on political strategy. i think the most telling example came on wisconsin election night. trump earlier in the gday signalled they'd do policy speeches and the campaign was going to get more focussed in his pitch and when the message comes out, the statement on the campaign, it's pure trump. trump dictating his own message. >> with a super attack on ted. >> hard hitting. >> one of his sharpest. >> that's the thing. the trump campaign way, for better or for worse, is to continue as is. and to try to add something here or there on policy but to remain trump. >> i understand that, except for this fact, robert. think about how many -- how many stories have we had about violence in his rallies?

protests in his rallies. that was what everybody was talking about two or three weeks ago. how many tweets -- i mean, i know he's been tweeting but since that -- usually when donald trump loses he explodes and he's on twitter going after megyn kelly, fill in the blanks. i just wonder -- >> trump's tweaked it, though. >> what's what i'm saying. >> melania has told him to stop retweeting. >> and he's done smaller events where there's less protesters. >> "i don't like the retweet." i loved when she said that. but. >> but chuck said the statement after the loss was still negative. no, the statement was quintessentially donald trump but -- >> a little more measured. >> and it was a piece of paper instead of a rambling press conference that everybody mocked. he put out a policy paper on the wall. the issue that was torturing bob

woodward for so long. i guess what i'm saying is the very subtle but i think we're seeing subtle tweaks to the campaign and while still keeping up sort of the -- >> woodward asked on your show "i want to have details on the wall." so after the interview he throws a piece of paper on the table that has details on the wall because woodward asked about it on "morning joe" and he has a written statement. it's sometimes subtle with trump but there is an evolution. he also told the "post" that he's deliberately had smaller rallies because he wants less chaos. and that's him acting as his own campaign manager. >> he's still, bob, deliberately dropping bombs as in the statement that lying ted is illegally -- he used the word illegal -- illegally directing his super pac, which is a very serious charge to accuse a candidate of illegal action and it doesn't seem as if there was a whole lot to back that up. that's the moment where i thought even as these advisors

are saying mr. trump, we have to play the long game, he still has that spark to throw the bomb. >> and no one can really control trump in that way. and he's going to continue to throw the bombs. he thinks he's been able to tag rubio, he was able to tag bush, now it's lying ted. he can't let cruz accumulate the political capital in the party. >> the super pacs, too, are a weak area, david. this is -- i mean, does anyone here think that those who run super pacs often don't collude with the candidates? >> it's just a very specific accusation. >> the closest of friends who -- >> it's illegal. >> i know that. but isn't there sort of -- >> you both can be right on this, to be honest. >> i think you both -- >> i've seen it happen. >> i think you both are right. >> i won't name names. >> it's a wink-wink, nod-nod come on, the whole thing is set up to be -- for illegality to

seep in, it's farcical. >> and trump is right to go after it, in some ways, the fund-raising stuff, what bernie sanders is doing with raising money is throwing the whole election cycle and the way we do politics upside down and trump is poking at some really important problems that we have. robert costa, stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe," what do sandy hook and the war in iraq have in common? bernie sanders makes a very provocative comparison. we'll explain that in a moment and bring in nbc's kasie hunt and andrea mitchell with their latest reporting on bernie sanders. hillary clinton unqualified to be president? we'll talk about that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i love to take pictures that engage people

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we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. the question, i'm sere yourself, if you weren't running today and you looked at bernie sanders, would you say "this guy isn't ready to be president of the united states?" >> well, i think he hadn't done his home work and he'd been talking for more than a year about doing things he hadn't studied or understood. and that does raise a lot of questions.

really what it goes to is for voters to ask themselves can he deliver what he's talking about? and i will leave it to voters to decide who of us can do the job that the country needs. who can do all aspects of the job both on the economic, domestic issues and on national security and foreign policy. >> that's hillary clinton speaking yesterday with us here on "morning joe." then last night in philadelphia, senator bernie sanders responding this way. >> she has been saying lately that she thinks that i am quote/unquote not qualified to be president. [ boos ] let me just say in response to secretary clinton, i don't believe that she is qualified if she is -- [ cheers and applause ] -- if she is, through her super pac, taking tens of millions of

dollars in special interest funds. i don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in iraq. i don't think you are qualified if you supported the panama free trade agreement. [ cheers and applause ] something i very strongly opposed and which as all of you know has allowed corporations and wealthy people all over the world to avoid paying their taxes to their countries. >> well, late last night secretary clinton's press secretary brian fallon responded to sanders' remarks on twitter saying --

that statement linked readers to a "washington post" article with the headline "clinton questions whether bernie sanders is qualified to be president" which cited secretary clinton's remarks on "morning joe." so, joe, back to d.c. you guys started all this with your question. she did not, in fact, say, technically, that he is not qualified, he was using quotes and said he was quoting her. she did not say that. but listening to her answer it did not sound to me like someone who believed that bernie sanders is qualified based on the response she gave you. >> well, she certainly didn't say it, willie. but she was very careful in all of her answers. i asked if she thought bernie sanders was really a democrat and she was careful in her response there. asked whether he should drop out of the race she said that was his decision to make. i asked that question several

times and several times asked if bernie sanders was qualified to be president of the united states in light of his answers or non-answers to the "new york daily news," she also was very ca careful? n making sure she didn't go there. basically said "i want the voters to look at both of us and see who has the ability to handle these situations better." but at no point, andrea mitchell, did we hear her utter the words "unqualified." but we did hear from that from bernie sanders last night. >> it's been incredible you pressed her. you said is she ready to be president? is she qualified to be president? and this was largely based on the editorial board with the "daily news" and they pressed her and he failed to answer a number of questions. at least to their satisfaction and to a lot ott press criticism. and she never used the word unqualified. but she suggested it. but very carefully worked around

it. this was part of a strategy on their part clearly to dial it up. to suggest that he isn't ready. he's not up to the job. they are increasingly frustrated but they've been careful. they have a concern not to alienate his passionate supporters. they know the party has to at some point come together. but she took it another step, talking to you and politico act the fact that he's never been a democrat. this is a signal to the super delegates. he's not one of us because his pathway to the nomination numerically is switch to super delegates by proving she has problems, we've alluded to them, plenty of things that could happen down the road, and that he is a better candidate against a possible donald trump or any other republican. they were laying this ground work. this tells you how important april 19 is.

they seized on it partly because of the "washington post" hyping the story and saying she said it. >> and isn't it strange that they're having this food fight about the word "qualified" at a time when arguably hillary clinton's greatest strength, that she has been unable to project so far is that she, in fact by any normal measure is qualified. you covered her adds secretary of state. you've seen her deal with every international issue there is, i covered her as senator, watched her on committees and passing legislation. somehow those real details of whether you're qualified get thrown out the window when the food fight begins. >> it's interesting because donald trump is trying to label her as incompetent. you can look at her record as senator and sakts, ecretary of especially secretary of state, and say her policies were wrong, lib libya, whatever you want to refer to. but you can't say she is not experienced? >> but there's a record to talk

about. >> and she's also in new york and particularly in upstate and western new york where people are really hurting, economic policies and programs would resonate. she's afraid it would resonate. she is trying to talk about her record as job creator but it was eight years ago. >> and upstate new york seems to be a region of the country that's just custom made for bernie sanders message, just like it's custom made for donald trump's message. >> that the big companies are screwing you guys out of your jobs, a lot of jobs have left upstate new york. his message should ring true there. we'll see how it does. hillary clinton would like to win her home state by a significant margin but it may not turn out that way. let's go back to philadelphia mo for more. kasie hunt is there. kasie, you talked to senator

sanders and talked about the highly scrutinized interview with the "new york daily news." what did you find out? >> willie, good morning. if you were going to pick a line of attack to go after bernie sanders with, you talked about hillary clinton and her team being frustrated with this race, doing it this way, questioning his qualifications is probably the best way to personally frustrate bernie sanders himself and i can tell you he would not have had a staff member tell him, is hey, you should go out and deliver this line about her qualifications, this is going to be coming from bernie sanders himself as a personal reaction and i could tell when i was interviewing him yesterday that he is frustrated by the focus on this da"daily news" interview. and there are a series of topics the clinton campaign has focused on, that outside groups have focused on, whether it's banking policy, foreign policy, the conflict in israel between the israelis and the palestinians

but of course the thing that's gotten you the most attention because it was on the cover of the "new york daily news" is his position on guns and immunity and andrea pointed this out. this is a long-held position of his but it's coming under new scrutiny because of the sandy hook shootings and how important that has become to so many people in new york and connecticut obviously, states coming up and voting next. here's what he had to say when i asked him about it. >> there have been called for you to apologize for the victims of the sandy hook families. >> well, i would say that i am not happy about seeing a tragedy of that enormity being politicized. i cannot think of a worst tragedy than what happened at sandy hook or what the parents are going through. but i don't go around saying to hillary clinton who voted for the war in iraq where we lost thousands of wonderful young men and women that she should

apologize to the family for a war that we never should have gotten into. >> i followed up by asking if he believes those are the same things, people killed at sandy hook versus, of course, those who died in our iraq war. he would not go directly there when i followed up with him. >> fascinating. kasie hunt in philadelphia on the democratic side, thanks so much. joe, the clinton campaign and some sandy hook families have said this is bernie sanders siding with gun manufacturers on this one issue against families and victims of gun violence. >> yeah, it's remarkable position for bernie sanders to take. almost as remarkable as -- it would be like a republican front-runner saying something nice about blood. it doesn't make sense. >> well, he has the view -- >> though donald trump said something -- is that what we're getting at? >> i can't slip it past you.

>> i was going to say in vermont the gun issue very important in rural vermont. he has had different points of view on the brady bill as well. it's been a big issue in this campaign. you've seen it in the debates and in this case he did initially vote against a bill that would have taken away the immunity -- >> were you surprised hi stayed with that position in front of the "daily news"? >> i was surprised he wasn't more sensitive to the fact that he's in new york, that connecticut's primary is a week later and that he was going to be hammered. everything is contextual. >> i'm not surprised. if you cover bernie, if you've known him in the senate, this guy doesn't change. that is his appeal, that's also -- >> but sanl he could have explained it more sensitively. >> it's not that he -- he holds very firmly to certain believes and for him is isn't about the issue of -- obviously he feels

objectively terrible about what happened in sandy hook, i wouldn't guess otherwise, but he believes firmly in the idea that there is a legal immunity issue here and that you don't get at gun violence by going at the manufacturers. he continuously compares it to hammer makers and i don't think that that's an insensitivity to the family at all. >> well, hammers aren't made to kill people. >> he came through the daily news interview, he has these strongly held positions, i want to break up the big banks, so you say, okay, senator, i want to talk to you about the effect that that would have on the banks and the people who work for them. how would you do that? entirely reasonable question given that that's the central theme of the campaign and there was no answer. >> i think that was the most difficult part. >> i thought the foreign policy stuff. >> since that's the central theme of his campaign. >> it's the core issue. you could explain what you mean and how you do it. >> andrea mitchell, thank you so much. it continues.

press conference is at 9:00. we shall see. bernie sanders is going to sit down with us tomorrow in new york on "morning joe." coming up next, another senator comes out in support of ted cruz. well, as much as any of them come out and support ted cruz. pretty negative. they love him. they love him, don't they? we got another one. i have an orc-o-gram for an "owen." that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪ thank you. seriously though, stacy went to a great school and she's really loyal. you should give her a shot. sanjay's a team player and uh... you owned your car you named it brad.s, you loved brad. and then you totaled him.

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obviously kasich is so far behind it's impossible for him to get the numbers so by process of elimination that gets you to ted cruz, so you want ted cruz to get the republican nomination? >> at this point there's no choice. >> so far you're only -- i think by our count the third senator, republican senator, who now effectively on this program has come out and endorsed cruz. lindsey graham and mike lee, your colleagues, they have. but i haven't seen a whole lot -- >> did i just endorse, wolf? >> you said you prefer him over the other two. >> i do. >> that sounds like an endorsement, doesn't it? >> i guess it depends on your definition of endorsement. >> that was senator jim rich of idaho yesterday. it was like a school girl watching the beatles arrive at jfk. >> hold him back. >> so excited. jumping up and down screaming. sam stein, a bit lukewarm? >>. >> you could call it that, perhaps. wasn't the most full throated

endorsement of all time. i think the beatles analogy is pretty good. >> thank you so much. also yesterday we had former house speaker newt gingrich telling politico -- that's an understatement. the establishment hates ted cruz. >> they can't stand him. >> the d.c. establishment. and ted cruz has worn that as a badge of honor. >> he has. notice he's not jumping around embracing these folks as they come to endorse him, either. it's not like oh, let's go out on the road together and do the road show. he understands what's happening here. the question is to what degree? because the reality is this. they see him more as a way to stop trump this is not ted when we get to cleveland you're going to have our votes, our full-throated support and get those delegates lined up to stay with you. they're going to peel those delegates from wisconsin and new york, anywhere else he's getting them off of him and on to who

they decide they want. and that is the big concern they need to be -- have in front of him. >> you know be this better than anyone else. this is why ted cruz getting his delegates on the rules committee matters. because he's going to try to maintain what is known as 40b which is a rule that says you have to have the majority of delegates won in eight states. that would essentially bring it down to him and trump. coming up next, we have "time" magazine's exclusive interview with ted cruz. the texas senator reveals how he's trying to broaden his appeal with republican voters, republican insiders and his republican colleagues in the senate as well. we shall return.

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enough." [ laughter ] not so fast, donald. ted cruz has a plan. michael, i have to say, we were just talking about another candidate, just talking about his complete lack of work ethic. it was pretty staggering to all of us. you can't say that about ted cruz. ted cruz even admitted it early on, he's not a likable person. but to see at least his public persona, you never know what people are like privately. but it's pretty shocking how successful this guy has been, despite the fact that he seems sort of staged and canned on stage. he's worked like hell. he's organized like hell. if there's anybody that's run a disciplined campaign, it's been this guy. >> and an effective campaign. both sides, democrats and republicans hands down he has the best campaign. we're heading into a convention in which campaign will probably be the deciding factor. everybody here in washington has

the dream you can push ted aside at the convention, but if ted has put his delegates in place, it's not the smoke-filled room. it will be the homemaker from arizona who's the delegate who's bound to trump on the first ballot but who got a check from someone ted cruz super pac and who really believes in the whole tea party aesthetic and he's the one who's organized that stuff on the ground. >> so is ted cruz likable enough? >> i think it's a very complicated math equation we're dealing with right now. he's holding on to his base. you saw him go to the bronx yesterday in what was sort of a hilarious episode. >> didn't work well. >> in which he said "our community" talking about latinos. that's the first time i ever heard him say that or speak spanish. in the interview he did with us he was trying hard and you saw him on that election night speech in wisconsin to pivot to this broader message, i'm not just the red meat to the right of everyone republican. he'll struggle doing that but what he's doing there is giving

the people who hate trump, opening the door for them saying come join me for the moment and i'll get you at the convention and you won't be able to pull the rug out from me at the convention. he has donors coming to him now. if he can convince some republicans in states like new york that as the club for growth ad said in wisconsin, stop trump, vote cruz. if not trump vote cruz. if he can get people to come along with him, then, yeah, he stops trump from getting a majority of the delegates. i think he becomes the favorite. >> another imperfect vessel we were talking about the one without the work ethic. the first -- it seems like the republican -- >> who was that? >> the one who will not be named who didn't have a work ethic but every poured their hopes and dreams into. but yet it looks, bob costa, like republicans now with another imperfect vessel to stop trump. >> and maybe a damaged vessel. i was looking over your story, michael, and my question to you is lying ted, you hear it being

chanted at trump's rally and trump just continues to tag the texas senator with this label. what has this done not only to his campaign but to his political career? has he looked ahead to 2020? what have the trump attacks meant based on your reporting? >> obviously no one does attacks right now in politics like trump and he goes after people exactly like you should. ted cruz is someone who figured out what he believed when he was, like, 14 years old and he has never wavered from that. when he says "i am the principled conservative," that is true. he is the principled conservative. there is no wavering there. so going after his integrity -- is ted cruz a nasty political fighter? absolutely. but going after his integrity as an attack, i think the question there is more about trump's credibility. how broad is his appeal. how many republicans will start listening to him. he clearly has 35%, 40% of the party. they're not -- they buy lying ted. they don't like him.

they'd rather have their guy trump. trump has to build on that and expand on that and we don't know whether he can do it. he's got favorable states coming up, he'll do well for a while. the momentum storyline will disappear. in a couple weeks donald trump will have all the momentum. >> right and then we're looking to california. >> but it depends on how the party changes. >> mike barnicle in new york has a question for you, michael. >> michael, we talk endlessly about donald trump, can he act more presidential? can he act presidential at all? can he swing his campaign to the mid-until he does, indeed get the nomination. but in your time spent with ted cruz what are your thoughts on ted cruz's ability to go from the fringe -- and he does represent a fringe element of republican politics -- to the middle to acting and talking like a president? >> he knows the script, he's incredibly good at speaking the language of a general election candidate and he did that in his interview with us a couple day ago. he sounds almost like a hillary

clinton or barack obama talking about wages being depressed and the working person needing help. the problem is that his history, the tape, the oppo on him is so contrary on that. this is a guy whose rise to power has depending on going to the right on every issue, fighting againstfy centrist plan at any step and it will be a race for him whether he can convince as he says the reagan coalition to come back to him, he's not a unifier like reagan has been so i think in practice it will be very hard. in performance, though, if you're asking whether he can say the lines on cue, absolutely he can. >> michael, what i'm curious about what ted cruz does at what looks to be a train wreck of a republican convention. he has been branding donald trump as an apostate, not a real republican, not a real conservative. there's every chance that either trump will get just enough votes

or he'll have so many angry supporters that the real challenge for cruz will be somehow to speak to this party in a voice that he's never found that i've seen. i've never seen it in your interviews with him. he has to find a different gear. is he there? >> i don't know how he deals with what will be a huge revolt of taking the nomination away in that scenario. what he's depending on now, what his operation is depending on is stacking the delegate pool and so that the how it looks on television, how the republican party reacts won't matter. he owns that delegate pool, if he can get, as his aides say, 200 people to move away from trump after the first ballot and on the second or third ballot make this happen he can deal with the fallout later. at that point he'll pivot to do you rlly want hillary clinton to be president and try to make it about that. it won't be easy. it will be a very painful ripping the blister off. >> it's going to be very painful, this convention, for everybody but those of us who

report on it. [ laughter ] it's going to be pretty damn exciting for us. everybody's wringing their hands. michael, thank you so much. the new issue of issue of thyme is on sale tomorrow. still ahead, bernie sanders decided to pick a fight with ge as an example of what's wrong with america. could have been a big mistake. we have ceo jeff i'm melts electric response challenging bernie to come visit a ge plant in his home state. "morning joe" back in a minute. when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours.

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are you ready? are you ready? who is going to pay for the wall? >> mexico. >> who? >> mexico. >> by the way, 100%. >> good morning. it's thursday, april 7th. welcome to "morning joe" in washington. with us here we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein. >> hello. >> did you do way too early today, too? >> no, that's why i'm so refreshed. >> you got to sleep in. >> yes. >> msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. >> columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius anchor for bbc world news america katty kay and up in new york willie geist along with veteran columnist and

msnbc contributor mike barnicle. good to have you all on board. >> willie, it is -- the columns over the past couple days this be dplor yusly predictable. "the washington post" says the voters have spoken, never trump. wisconsin has spoken, forget the fact that trump is up 30 percentage points in new york and over 50%. the "wall street journal" yesterday wrote donald trump's political obituary. and i think to prove just how weak trump's candidacy is he packed in over 10,000 people in beth page, new york last night. >> i think it was more like 15. >> i think he had to turn some people away. this is no doubt, willie, just as we saw as they predicted in june, july, august, september, october, november, december and january, this is -- this is the signs of a dying campaign. we knew it couldn't last and the people of wisconsin have spoken. and as we know, as goes oshkosh,

so goes the rest of the world. >> you know, he's obviously showed some weakness in wisconsin, he got beat pretty badly, but he walked right into new york the next day, got that crowd on long island, he has exceeded 50% in a new poll in the state of new york, his real clear average remains over 30 points in in state, he's moving into his strengths. and i would point you to run cover this morning, this is the new york daily news. if you want the pulse of new york city at least here is what it says, take the f-u train, ted. if you don't live in new york those are the symbols for subway lines. that's how new york is feeling this morning. >> right. okay. >> michael steele -- >> pretty clear. >> michael steele, we've been talking about it for some time, you can't even speak of political reality these days with people saying you are on the trump train. no, actually everybody else is on the derangement train. so suggest that wisconsin is

dispositive of what happens from here into the convention is extraordinarily stupid. i can't believe the stupid comments i heard last night on every network and i don't -- you know i don't usually say the word just stupid. and i define stupid as somebody saying the same thing nine months in a row and thinking that it just -- >> wait. can i just say something? gene robinson on all the networks was the voice of reason. >> god bless gene robinson. there were people going, it's going to be like nazi germany and it's going to be like argentina. >> there's violence everywhere. >> and gene was like, guys -- >> i lived in argentina. >> i lived in argentina, we're not there. >> we're not there. >> just take a deep breath. >> nor germany, either, despite the very good accent, joe. >> i failed miserably on ted cruz. >> i can do ted cruz. >> i can't do ted cruz, thank god. i'm just saying all i'm asking for and all i've been asking for is just some straight reporting.

don't -- >> it can't be done. >> -- let your hatred get in the way. and it doesn't mean he doesn't say offensive things, he says offensive things and i'm not dismissing any of it. i've written tough columns, as tough as anybody else, but our job is to report was happening and not what we're begging and pleading and praying and hoping will happen. >> that's exactly right. what you saw was the convergence of many things coming together. first off, starting with the base there, that is not a donald trump base. so those republicans are not like the republicans you saw in earlier contests, number one, they're closer to the establishment, the exit polls show that somewhere like 53% of wisconsin's -- folks from wisconsin think that the economy is in the wrong spot or that they don't -- they have a problem with the federal government, where that number in other states was 65, 75%. there's a big difference in the mindset there. but more importantly i think you hit it on the head, the media wants to write a narrative that doesn't bear itself out in

reality. >> because they've been wrong so long they think that -- >> if they just keep writing it, joe, someone will read it and think that that's the way it is and the reality of it is you're going to swing now into the strength of donald trump. this will be a test for him. i have to say he has to do a reset on his messaging, he has to stop in one sense talking to himself about his campaign and open it up a little bit more. >> yeah. >> but that still doesn't change the narrative that he's going into his strength right now. >> he will lose nothing. >> the mon moth poll if you're driving in the car new york republican primary yesterday 52% trump, kasich second place 25%, ted cruz with knows new york values at 17%, david ignatius. >> so new york is going to be decisive and we've gotten past wisconsin nice and we can all really focus. the one point i think is i look at these numbers, the republicans are heading toward a real car wre of a convention because there will be strong

trump opponents who will be furious to the verge of walking out if he wins the nomination and there will be strong trump supporters who will be furious and think they've been cheated if he doesn't. and that is the least attractive scenario i would think for a major political party and that's one that i don't think, joe, they're going to be able to solve. >> i don't think they can solve it either. >> it's cooked into where we are. >> you look at the rage and the hatred right now focused towards donald trump, mainly it's coming, katty, from the right. mainly it's coming from the conservative establishment, so to speak, the people that conservatives have been reading and hearing and watching for the past 20 years. they seem to be the ones the most enraged if you go on your twitter feed and it is constant. >> what's odd is that -- i mean, it's interesting that you suggest there, david, that this is the worst scenario is a brokered convention for the party because that seems to be what the party wants at the moment, they seem to be clinging to the hope of a brokered

convention in the bid that this might be able to throw them up paul ryan or john kasich or any other -- >> they might get ted cruz. >> or they might get ted cruz. >> i can't imagine they would want that. >> imagine the emotions of trump supporters on the day after a brokered convention. >> talk about having people in the streets. >> totally agree. we're going to hear from ted cruz and donald trump last night in just a moment, but first the gloves are off in the race for the democratic nomination. it all got started yesterday right here on "morning joe" when joe asked hillary clinton in light of bernie sanders' recent interview with the new york daily news editorial board if her opponent is qualified to be president. >> so the question -- and i'm serious, if you weren't running today and you looked at bernie sanders would you say this guy is ready to be president of the united states? >> well, i think he hadn't done his homework and he had been talking for more than a year about doing things that he obviously hadn't really studied or understood and that does

raise a lot of questions. really what it goes to is for voters to ask themselves can he deliver what he's talking about? and i will leave it to voters to decide who of us can do the job that the country needs. lock do all aspects of the job, both on the economic domestic issues and on national security and foreign policy. >> all right. and then senator sanders said this at a rally last night in philadelphia. >> she has been saying lately that she thinks that i am, quote/unquote, not qualified to be president. let me just say in response to secretary clinton, i don't believe that she is qualified if she is -- if she is through her super pac taking tens of

millions of dollars in special interest loans. i don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in iraq. i don't think you are qualified if you supported the panama free trade agreement. something i very strongly opposed and which, as all of you know, has allowed corporations and wealthy people all over the world to avoid paying their taxes to their countries. >> late last night clinton's press secretary, brian fallen, responded to those remarks on twitter saying, quote, hillary clinton did not say bernie sanders was not qualified, but he has now absurdly said it about her. this is a new low. he added, bernie sanders, take back your words about hillary clinton. sanders did no such thing. his campaign released a statement that began, quote, responding to hillary clinton's attempt to portray him as

unqualified for the white house, senator sanders linked her to a trade pact exploited by wealthy individuals and profitable cooperation toss avoid paying taxes and then went on to spell out the rest of the senator's quotes from philadelphia. that statement linked readers to a "washington post" article with the head line "clinton questions whether sanders is qualified to be president" which cited secretary clinton's remarks on "morning joe." i feel like i'm in trouble. okay. and bernie sanders will join us on set in new york tomorrow morning. >> okay. so, mike barnicle, you were there with us. i tried to get hillary clinton four times -- three or four times to say that bernie sanders was unqualified to be president of the united states and just like my interview with rick santorum, i start asking a question, i keep going being i get an answer or give up and after three or four attempts with secretary clinton i gave up because she was not going to say

the words he is unqualified to be president of the united states. was that your take away from the interview as well or am i missing something? >> no, i mean, he clearly did not say that she was -- that bernie sanders was not qualified to be president and under senator sanders' logic in his come back, is john kerry qualified to be secretary of state because he, too, voted for many of the things that hillary clinton has cited in senator sanders' indictment. this is going to be a 12-day tension convention here in new york state between senator sanders and secretary clinton. and to the larger issue of what you were talking about just a few moments ago, there is a group of people in new york state who are going to be really the pivot point for what happens going forward with regard to donald trump, with regard to sanders, with regard to secretary clinton and they're called voters and they're going to vote a week from tuesday and they're going to be a better barometer of what's going on in this election than any polls that we can put out or any

claims and disclaimers that come back and forth between these two candidates. >> our members of the chattering class -- >> she did say he didn't do his homework which would say not prepared. >> but she never said not qualified. >> in his statement kind of rode back from the suggestion that she had said that. that she tried to portray him. >> this whole thing is absurd. i think it's fair to say hillary clinton is probably one of the more qualified on resumé canaled dats for president who has come along for a while, her problem is certain judgments she mass made along the way, it's not just john kerry, barack obama did all the things that bernie sanders questioned about qualifications, he was elected president, therefore, he's qualified. this is one of those exchanges that is so dumb and so tedious that you start scratching your head and you wonder if three weeks from now we will actually remember these types of things. >> it also shows the allusive role of fact in this campaign. i mean, people are asserting

things increasingly without any connection to solid fact. when donald trump accuses ted cruz of orchestrating his super pac in violation of the law, he is just out there and there don't seem to be any facts to tie it to. same thing with the allegations about ted cruz's wife, whatever they were, and now this allegation about being unqualified. it's a strange campaign where people just say things and they act as if, so -- >> this is a turn in terms of rhetoric for the democratic race. up until relatively recently it hadn't gone that personal or nasty, but it's clear that the two candidates and campaigns are grating on each other a little bit. >> willie, i will say as well and i completely agree with david ignatius, i have found it slipping into a lot of the reporter, hyperbolic reporting not just on internet outlets but also mainstream media outlets who are trying to drive a narrative and there's always an

overreach, there seems to be a factual overreach and we've point it had out going all the way to june or july. a story is taken and then conclusions are drawn on the front pages of newspapers and they end up helping the candidates they're trying to destroy. >> yeah. i mean, watching that interview i wasn't sitting here with you guys but i thought it was perhaps implied in her answer that he was not qualified to be president. she didn't say it explicitly, but when you asked she laid out the reasons and made the case why he wouldn't be the best president. i think what we're seeing is the intersection of two things that are being thrust into this new york spotlight, one being her annoyance that he's still around and in this race and his being that she believes this belongs to her and he ought to get out of the race. there was also a big fight yesterday between the two of them about this law that he voted for that would not hold gun makers liable, the maker of the ar-15, she sent out a very tough tweet about him saying basically that he should not be siding against families of sandy

hook. we're seeing this on many different levels and can in for a long week and a half here. still ahead, for donald trump there is no place like home. and we get to two very different looks from the top two republican candidates as they turn to the empire state. plus, trust issues, how seriously do trump's unfavorables overshadow his general election chances? we will get new insights from the associate press's julie pace. ♪ ♪ (laughing) there's nothing like making their day. except making sure their tomorrow is taken care of too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can. while you're mastering life.

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do you remember during the debate when he started lecturing me on new york values like we're no good. like we're no good. and i started talking to him about the world trade center,

the bravery, the incredible bravery of everybody, our police, our firemen, our everybody. the worst attack in the history of the united states, the bravery that was shown was incredible, we all lived through it, we all know people that died, and i've got this guy standing over there looking at me talking about new york values with scorn on his face, with hate tread -- with hate tread of new york. so, folks, i think you can forget about him.red -- with ha york. so, folks, i think you can forget about him. >> he is lyin ted, i came up with the idea, but you have to spell it right, it's l-y-i-n apostrophe, the bible held high, he puts it down and then he

lies. >> wow. that was donald trump yesterday. look at that crowd in his home state of new york. some estimates from inside the campaign say that 35,000 people rsvp'd they could only let 10,000 in. his kickoff rally drew obviously many more than 10,000 people on long island. >> sam stein, look at that crowd. >> looks like an inviting place. >> meanwhile, ted cruz was in new york at the same time, fresh off his win in wisconsin. he met the city's press corps while campaigning in the bronx and addressed the elephant in the room. >> the people of new york know exactly what those values are, they are the values of liberal democratic politicians like andrew cuomo, like anthony weiner, like elliott spitzer, like charlie rangel. all of whom donald trump has supported, given tens of thousands of dollars throughout the years. if you want to know what liberal democratic values are, follow

donald trump's checkbook. >> the actions of people like mayor bill de blasio who in every time there is a confrontation between criminals and police officers, the liberal democrats side with the criminals and the looters and rioters rather than the police officers. i will tell you the moment when the brave men and women in blue of the nypd stood up and turned their backs on mayor bill de blasio i chierd for those new york cops and i will tell you people all across america did. that spoke to the entire country that when you have politicians that will not stand with police officers and firefighters and first responders and for that matter soldiers and sailors and air men and marines, that's an example of how these liberal politicians have forgotten who we are. i'll tell you, as president i will always stand with the police officers and the firefighters and the first responders. >> is it lyin ted or pandering ted, but you have to say it nsh.

>> it's l-y-i-n with an apostrophe, hold the bible high and then start to lie. he's got a rhyme going here. willie geist, first of all, we can expect another bill de blasio press conference or at least commissioner bratton. another thing, too, a bit unconvenient -- inconvenient to bill de blasio and commissioner bratton and the rest of the nypd leadership always siding with the criminals, i think i saw something a couple days ago showing new york's murder rate at record lows. so i don't know if you heard donald's speech last night, but his line when he started talking about new york values blew the roof off of that convention center at beth page. >> it was one of the best moments when he originally made the point right when ted cruz made the new york values comment and it worked again last night. barnicle and i were watching

those two events sitting here in new york. the contrast, donald trump could not possibly be more in a his element than he was last night. those are his people. he is a new york guy, he is on long island, the accent got a little bit thicker on donald, this he know him, he knows them, contrast that with ted cruz in the bronx where he was heckled at the restaurant, he went to a college prep academy in the bronx, a bunch of students walked out, they were yelling at him for being anti-immigrant. the polls reflect what i'm going to say here, but i think this might not be ted cruz's state. >> no, maybe not and then back to the trump rally. i mean, you can't really mention it without mentioning who introduced him, ee vank can a who i think had a baby maybe like yesterday looking incredible, the crowd goes wild and he is like look at ivanka, she had a baby a week ago, i'm not going to say you're fired. >> i've got to give ted cruz

some credit to even showing up. >> for even showing up, exactly. >> because this is not going to end well in new york for ted cruz and yet he's going out there and he's taking his lumps. >> he's going to do shakespeare in the park. that would be great. >> that would be amazing. >> he's going to make an argument as john kasich because he's going to outpace ted cruz here in new york, he's going to do better, he's going to have 25 points. >> accumulation, accumulation, grab what you can get in every state. >> but he's not going to get -- >> that doesn't matter. he's going -- >> he's going to do better than ted cruz. >> and what does that matter if you don't get any delegates? >> it matters that -- >> stay in. >> that's what i don't understand why ted cruz is so desperate for john kasich to get out. ted cruz is not going to get the 1,237 delegates, either, right. >> right. >> so his only chance is to get to that brokered convention, the best chance of that is to take delegates away from donald trump. john kasich could do some of

that in new york it makes sense. >> at least in new york state he will be taking away from donald trump and it's proportional. who knows, maybe he can get close to the -- to what cruz got in wisconsin. that's not a bad night as far as numbers go. >> willie geist, explain how donald trump came out -- for people who don't live in new york city, that don't understand the boroughs and understand the stark difference between, say, manhattan, staten island, long island, queens and everything, i thought it was very interesting, donald trump has always had a chip on his shoulders -- shoulder because he was a queens guy, he came into manhattan and graydon carter, all these years later still calling him an outer borough guy. of course, graydon is from canada so i'm not exactly sure, you know, where he gets off saying that, but calls him an outer boroughs guy, but you could see, as you said with that thick accent, that despite the fact wherever donald trump goes,

hey, puerto rico, i love puerto rico. hey, i have lots of friends here. he said that wherever he goes. last night you could tell he was at home base with a crowd that he was most comfortable with and was most comfortable with him. >> i think most people watching this show understand the difference between manhattan and queens and brooklyn, which have great diversity in their own right, but he is a product of queens, he is a product of the kind of people you saw in that room on long island, quite working class voters who are going to support him. i think what you see in new york is a little bit of a microcosm of what you're seeing at large in in race which is that he speaks to the kind of people who were in that room last night and they know donald trump. he has been in their lives for 30, 35 years now, he has been on the front page, for some people that's a bad thing, but for people like that, people in the outer boroughs and a lot of people in manhattan to be honest with you they love what they see in donald trump and he excites them and represents new york the way they want it represented. coming up on "morning joe," from cheese to crackers, after

winning wisconsin ted cruz is setting to campaign in a matza factory in brooklyn. >> lots of luck. >> it's definitely pandering ted, isn't it? i think he got the brand wrong. >> donald says it's lyin with an apostrophe, put the bible up high, put it down and start to lie. >> hallie jackson joins us live from the trail. tomorrow senator bernie sanders joins us live in studio as he tries to extend his winning streak. more "morning joe" in just a moment. on a rack. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee. yeah, we're strong when it comes to tires. right now during the big tire event, get a $120 rebate by mail on four select tires. when your ford needs service, these are the specialists. at ford.

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natural resources. in pennsylvania we're seeing jobs, we're seeing economic opportunity because pennsylvania they're developing those resources. liberal democratic politicians won't allow new yorkers to develop those resources, apparently they don't think new yorkers want jobs. >> that was ted cruz speaking in the bronx yesterday and joining us from skosh is that, new york, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson who has been covering the cruz campaign from the beginning. hallie, ted cruz is coming off a win in wisconsin, but new york is going to be a tough slog. >> reporter: a real uphill battle, mika. when you look at how donald trump is polling here, when you look at the mon moth poll that is out he is above 50%. ted cruz is not just behind donald trump he is behind john kasich, too, he is dead last in in state. he does have a big climb ahead of him if he wants to be able to compete. the question isn't necessarily how well donald trump can do, it's could he potentially sweep

the state's delegates, cruz is working hard to try to prevent that. today he will be in brooklyn, during a matzo bakery, looking to get that jewish vote in new york, playing in upstate new york here, you can see it's empty so far but people are already lining up outside. the challenge for cruz is he spent a while talking about new york values, hitting donald trump for his new york values, now he has to convince people in new york that he is actually somebody who will uphold what he believes are the conservative principles as he goes on this road to the exhaust. here is what he had to say after his win in wisconsin about his strategy moving forward and then after we run this sound let's talk about how that plays out. >> just three weeks ago in wisconsin we were behind by ten points, the media was saying we couldn't win wisconsin, wisconsin was a perfect state, we were told, for donald trump to win. we won across the state. we won women, we won men, we won young people, we won every

income group. what we saw is we saw republicans come together and unite. >> reporter: the cruz campaign points to that 20-point swing in wisconsin, right. if you look at where the numbers were, they ended up gaining double digits before the wisconsin primary as cruz picked up some momentum and donald trump saw an erosion of support. the campaign is hoping that something similar may happen in new york. again, i think that the campaign is even acknowledging as an aid said that it's a pretty rough road ahead in new york, but cruz wants to show that he can compete here and compete in the other five states that follow where donald trump looks strong. john kasich could be a real spoiler, the campaign for cruz started modeling data for kasich, so looking at him as a potential road block for ted cruz, obviously cruz has spoken about how he believes if this does go to a contested convention it will be a competition between him and donald trump, kasich a nonfactor. >> hallie jackson, threw very much. let's bring into the

conversation washington bureau chief at bloomberg megan murphy, julie pace. julie, later today the ap is going to be releasing new polling of donald trump's standing among voters. are there any surprises? >> i think the big surprise, we focused on his unfavorability, voters' negative opinions about him, what we wanted to do is slight up the electorate, try to figure out his standing among voters when you look at gender, ethnicity, geographic location, political preference, pretty much any way you could slice up this electorate. >> how does it look for him? >> not good. across the board he is viewed negatively. what is most surprising is that he is unpopular in regions of the country where he has done well and unpopular with voters who make up his base. so, yes, he can continue to win primary states but he does have work to do even with people who are coming out to vote for him. >> yeah, i think on specific issues, though, in a general it could get really tough.

i know there's new polling coming out later on how he fares with that against hillary clinton on specific issues because i think when you get to the general, if he makes it there, people are going to be looking for can he do this? right? >> it's a different conversation. >> right. in a general election you are looking at two people who are one step away from the white house, so you do view that through a different prism and the polling that we will be putting out over the weekend really goes head to head trump and clinton on a range of issues and i don't think it will be -- >> is there any like historical precedent for people being like, i don't like this person, i don't particularly approve of their policies but i want them to be president? like i can see them in the office? >> what's interesting is hillary clinton will be trying to overcome that same -- >> by default -- i'm wondering prior to this is there any historical precedent. >> if you look at the most recent elections there isn't. obviously candidates have flaws but they don't have this broad

unpopularity, it's very difficult to win when broadly you aren't liked. >> what i think is so interesting about this is these are actually general election questions as opposed to already look at how far wisconsin seems today when you see that rally last night in bethpage and sort of how he's going to take it forward and focus on his base and focus on his message as opposed to sort of this level of detail, these sort of unfavorables. he doesn't seem coming off of wisconsin he is going to change a lot. >> that audience was massive but i didn't see a lot of women or -- i saw some women. i definitely saw some. but it seemed like a lot of men, a lot of white men. am i wrong? >> a lot of his rallies seem like that. >> i'm curious about in your polling did you ask the question why? so, in other words, okay, you're telling me you don't like the man you just voted for, but can you tell me why you voted for him or more importantly why you would vote for him this fall,

because i think that's going to be a question for both hillary and donald trump. she's sitting at 56% unfavorables, he at 62. >> absolutely. so there are a couple of areas where he does poll okay, i don't want to overstate his strength. one of them and i think this is interesting is on decisiveness and i do think that is something when you dig in with voters they say that they just feel like there is so much gridlock in washington. >> they are attracted to that. >> nobody can get anything done, they feel like he is decisive, he could come here and shake things up and at least make decisions. >> he will shake things up. >> sam, you write in the huffington post, hillary clinton has a general election pivot problem. >> yeah. >> okay. and so donald trump doesn't? let me see.

>> and so where is she in the process? >> so this is what wisconsin basically did for hillary, which is it kept the current status quo in place and by that she still is probably the prohibitive favorite to win the nomination. >> right. >> but she can't take her eye off the primary to the point that she offends people acting bern hey. this is creating a bit of anxiety among democrats and a little in her campaign as well. there is something to be said about pivoting to the general election before the competition does. >> right. >> remember, mitt romney was

tarred relentlessly while he was seeking the republican nomination in 2012 by barack obama and his ally groups and as david said to me in 2008 john mccain did not use those early months when he had been the nominee to his advantage and barack obama was able to go out and effectively define the party as reincarnation of george bush. so the democrats in the hillary clinton campaign are trying to figure out at what point can we start turning to the general, investing that money in battle ground states, going back to those states -- >> because bernie sanders is making a lot of -- i think he just made another million dollars. >> sure. >> right now. >> right. >> as we talk. and that's a big problem because if you offend bernie's people there is a backlash. >> i think, yes, it's pivoting because of bernie but i think also the problem with her pivoting has been her failure to articulate a cohesive message on issues like wall street, on issues like taking money from special interest groups. even yesterday when we saw this kerr fafl over bernie and

whether he was qualified and some of the comments he made about breaking up banks or the middle east, he is still driving the agenda and driving the message and she still has been failed to get beyond her issues. >> that's part -- but that's part of the issue they're grappling with. if it's a different kind of conversation you have once you move from the primary, the issues that he's defining are not likely going to be the same issues that are defined in the fall. >> actually i take a little exception with that. i think bernie -- sorry, sam, but i think bernie sanders is actually defining the issues for the fall. he's doing it right now. hillary is going to run on part of bernie's agenda to keep some of those bernie supporters who feel the bern in place, she wants bernie sanders out there for her this fall. so a big part of bernie's effort to get to that convention is to have a voice on the platform committee, for example, to have a voice on the rules committee, to help further shape the agenda that he has already started. >> no doubt, but i just don't think that hillary clinton and whoever the republican nominee

is are going to be have been a robust debate about single payer healthcare. >> but definitely about wall street. >> but one of the things that hillary clinton as she turns towards the general election has to worry about, especially if donald trump is the nominee, is this idea that he will continue to nominate the conversation so this space while the republicans are still trying to figures out who their nominee is and where she looks as though she is likely to be the democratic nominee is so crucial for her because it could be the only period of time where she essentially has a platform to push her own message. >> mika, you're absolutely right, the fact that elizabeth warren has been zippo since this thing began -- >> you leave elizabeth warren on the sidelines, people like barack obama, joe biden who could be effective surrogates on the sidelines because they don't feel like they could step out in support of her while bernie is winning states. >> this is all relatively moot because the whole election changes after ted cruz steps

foot in that matzo factory. it is a different ball game. >> pandering ted. i mean, he really -- i think it's the -- i think it's his delivery. it's that he truly believes that we believe. >> impact speech. >> that he's not pandering. but he's pandering. >> is he going to eat a filka fish. >> seriously? i don't believe it. i really -- i have a serious issue with this. i'm sorry. i apologize because it's probably ail little over the top. i can't even listen to him. i can't. it's the delivery: it's pandering. it's not lyin', it's pandering. still ahead former dod official he have rihn fark -- wait, no, back to me. why are you trying to stop trump if what you're going to get is ted? ted shut down the government. >> i am a former rnc chairman.

>> would you want trump or ted? if you had to. >> i will take whoever the nominee is. >> okay. but would you push for ted? would you beg for ted? would you go against everybody you believe? what are you doing, establishment? what are you doing? stop trump forces, you're blinded by your hatred. former dod official evelyn farkas has a new piece out entitled trump and putin, two liars separated at birth. no, she is not blinded. fortunately we have masters a psychology all of us to help us figure out how she really feels. that's next. ok team, what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good. we're total heroes.

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but directv has been number one in customer satisfaction (son) pa, i know we settle for cable... over cable for 15 years. (father) how 'bout over 15 satisfying years with that woman over there boiling your clothes. her layers and layers of...layers. hair that i've rarely seen because it's always under that bonnet. and how she fought off that grizzly and made him into these slippers. that's satisfaction son. (vo) don't be a settler, get a $100 reward card when you switch to directv. we have russia, which is a real threat, too, it's not as big as the soviet union but a real threat run by a very smart cookie, much smarter, much more cunning than our president, i will tell you that right now, whether we like it or not. and i like him because he called me a genius, he said trump is

the new leader, trump should be the leader and he is a total genius and it got out in the paper. >> joining us now former dod official and former could you tell testify director of the wmd commission dr. evelyn farkas. she is a nonresident senior fellow at the atlantic council and her latest piece in "politico" asks whether trump and putin are two liars separated at birth, and evelyn you write in part this: >> so you're saying you are a little concerned about the foreign policy signed of things here.

>> i'm a little concerned about the truth and i think it's kind of rich because, you know, this morning you also had clips about donald trump calling cruz, you know, lyin' ted and, i mean, over and over again we've seen trump just say things that were not true, including this last trip where he calls putin a cookie, which is kind of interesting. where he says that putin said this, this and this about me. actually, putin said he was bright. that's as far as he went, he did not endorse him for the presidency. >> he exaggerated. >> he exaggerated. there is sort of lie after lie and the problem i think -- so my bottom line is i think the reason that trump is actually dangerous for democracy in the way that putin is is that you have enough lies add up and it becomes such an overwhelming task for you guys in the journalism courier field to counter all these lies. after a while -- and he insists that the lies are true, even in the face of documentary evidence, even in the face of the video, for example, of his

campaign manager grabbing the journalist, he said, oh, that didn't happen, right? so even in the face of actual evidence he persists with the lies. >> but there are always issues that there's something in the middle. haven't you noticed that? even the super pac issue, you can say it's a lie, but you all know it happens. in the lewandowski situation the reporter was not thrown toward the ground almost. i mean, it wasn't a violent interaction and some even argue whether it looked like an assault or kind of a mistake that was trumped up by the reporter. i'm just saying. it's always somewhere in the middle. he is not just blurting out outright lies he's making people think in some ways. >> i think you have a good point and that kind of ambiguity there because it also exists with the nato argument. he said nato we pay too much, it's we don't get anything for it. actually we don't pay too much, there is an orderly system, you know, based on the gross national income and so we're paying proportionate, we are not that far actually ahead of

germany, for example. >> so what would you say to donald trump about nato's value and what we get in return? >> it's huge. first of all, the allies who came with us, for example, after 9/11 when we went to afghanistan they were the european allies first and foremost and are still with us. >> i will say this, there is always a kernel of truth in what he says and then there's ten or so lies on top of it, for instance, the lewandowski thing, you're absolutely right the video wasn't as. >> dramatic. >> dramatic. however, there was a demonstrable lie told that initially that he didn't know her and that he didn't touch her. then there was a compounding lie that donald trump said she grabbed me when in fact the video showed nothing of the sort, completely the opposite. and then there's the whole outlandish thing, she had a pen in had err hand, could it have been a bomb. it's clear that he's bending the truth after starting with a kernel of it. >> if you look at the putin thing specifically for an example i don't think he

actually knows that much about vladimir putin to be quite honest other than pictures of him bare back on a horse in russia and he likes the fact that this man who is perceived in his own country as strong. let's not go into what people what people about him in russia. i'm not sure if it's lying or a lack of knowledge. >> of the republican field, though, it's true, i think, that he is probably the most traveled candidate internationally because just of his business dealings, that doesn't translate into knowledge. >> as we close if donald trump asks you to come in and advise him on russia and nato would you do it? >> no. but i think he needs a lot of advice. he needs facts to begin with. >> that's kind of -- okay. >> for the good of the country. >> for the good of the country if he wants me to come and talk to him about putin and russia i will do it. >> there you go. good citizen. thank you very much. up next, one ceo says there's something more unamerican than off shoring, a

business' headquarters for tax reasons. sara eisen explains next in business before the bell. keep in right here on "morning joe." (laughing) there's nothing like making their day. except making sure their tomorrow is taken care of too. financial guidance from chase. so you can.

financial guidance whewhat does it look like?ss, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours.

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♪ he has a sharp wit. a winning smile. and no chance of getting an athletic scholarship. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade. it is time now for business before the bell with cnbc's sara eisen. what are you watching this morning. >> it's not every day that corporate executives fire back against washington and politicians but that's what we're seeing today. starting with ge's ceo jeffrey

immelt writing in the washington post a pretty fiery attack on bernie sanders for what senator sanders said about general electric in the op ed or the editorial board discussion with the new york daily news that ge is, quote, destroying the moral fabric of america. immelt said we have never been a big hit with socialists because we create wealth and jobs. he said we sustain 125,000 jobs, sanders has never come to a vermont plant and he says there are generations of americans within families that work within ge. on taxes immelt says sanders had stated many times that ge pays no taxes. repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. we pay billions in taxes including federal, state and local taxes. so immelt firing back on sanders. another interesting op ed from a corporate executive the ceo and chairman of pfizer going against what the treasury did this week. the u.s. treasury department

announced in you rules that crack down on inversions where american companies can buy other companies to redomicile and not have to pay the high u.s. corporate tax rate. the treasury cracked down this week and broke up a $160 billion deal between pfizer and allergan and now the ceo of pfizer says it was an ad hoc and arbitrary attempt to single out and damage the growth opportunities of companies. the law is unprecedented. a lot of critique from corporate executives in today's newspapers. that does it for business before the bell, more "morning joe" coming up. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. ♪ the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. ♪

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time now to talk about what we learned today. megan. >> i think we've learned that wisconsin is a very distant past and that -- >> ominous future. >> and on to new york and i think if that crowd is indicative i think he can avoid the self-inflicting mistakes he made then he is going to have a good two weeks. >> sam. >> we are about to witness the power of a matzo factory on the presidential landscape. it is going to change the game in ways you have never -- >> you didn't say it like williams shakespeare so i'm not interested. michael steele, can you spell talk like ted cruz? >> i'm working on that. trump is back in his element, new york is going to be good to him and he's going to do well and going to launch the next --

>> julie pace. >> ted cruz should not take his transportation information from the new york daily news. steve kornacki picks up the coverage right now. good morning. i'm steve kornacki. topping the agenda this morning, bernie sanders going farther than he has ever gone before in his attacks on hillary clinton, charging that her vote for the iraq war and that the wall street money her super pac takes make her unqualified to be president. >> she has been saying lately that she thinks that i am, quote/unquote, not qualified to be president. let me just say in response to secretary clinton, i don't believe that she is qualified. >> is sanders making a fair point there or are democrats going to think that he's cros