the done vengs to haconvention credible case. >> where is he in maryland. it's amazing that the state, which ought to be a strong state for. >> anybody not named trump, considering what happened in northern virginia. i'll leave it there. we'll be back more with more "mtp daily." if it's sunday, it's "meet the press," got a good one for you. the new trump manager, plus bernie sanders, plus a former president that i've been teasing you about. all on your local nbc station. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm mark halperin. >> i'm john helemann. with all due respect to pope francis, ever time you think you're out, they keep pulling you back in. happy good friday, sports

fans. i said good friday, because wow, what a good news day it has been. hypothetical situation. you're running for president, and the pope invites you to the vatican to give a speech. wwbsd. >> that's kind of impressive. >> it is. >> invited by the vatican to go over and speak? >> i was very moved by the invitation, which was just made public today. i am a big, big fan of the pope. obviously, there are areas we disagree on, women's rights or gay rights, but he has played an unbelievable role, unbelievable role of injecting a moral consequence into the economy. >> okay, so let's call that the before video. now for the after video. it turns out sanders will be speaking at an academic conference, sponsored by the pontiff acmademcademy. doesn't have any set plans to meet with the senator.

but as first reported by bloomberg, the president of the academy is saying the sanders campaign reached out first for the invitation and his campaign showed monumental discourtesy about discussions. that's not good timing, the day after brooklyn, and a few days before the new york primary, which if you haven't heard, is kind of a big deal, especially to bernie sanders. so mark, put aside, there is a lot of internal stuff going on in vatican city. but just focusing on in one question. is this a good use of bernie sanders' time flying off to rome? >> unless he gets a meeting with the pope, of which there is no indication he will. this is in explicable to me. >> the good jew that he is. >> go to rome for like 48 hours, this close to the primary that

he must win. we're going to have his campaign manager, i can't wait to talk about it. this seems ill-advised. >> before any of the controve y controversi controversies -- >> images of him standing in the chapel like, you know, doing the cancan with the pope. >> but short of that -- >> before any of these controversies broke out, really, that's a long trip. this is a must win primary for him. the pope is obviously, maybe helps his foreign poli credentials, the pope has become an icon -- >> it would be barry worth it. >> i don't see how, i mean, if he loses the new york primary by a point or two, having spent basically two days, which is going to take out of the conversation, and out of new york, if he loses the primary by a point, people will look at this and say this is the dumbest

prediction he ever made. >> this trip won't happen. manafort alert today, paul manafort, donald trump's newest hire, made his television debut in delegate rangler, cnn today, feels comfortable undertaking. >> the reality is, ted cruz has seen his best day. it will be over with in june, probably june 7th. it will be apparent to the world that trump is over the 1,237. when it is apparent, everything will come together. >> you think he'll get to 1,237. >> absolutely. >> before the convention? >> absolutely. >> why the confidence. >> because i know the votes. >> that suit, that hair. it's this weekend, another sign the trump campaign has been getting out maneuvered by team cruz in delegates.

john, does trump have enough time to actually right the delegate accumulation ship? >> well, let us just pause for a moment and note that that video of mr. manafort legendary figure, used to be roger stone's partner, along with charlie black a long time ago. that was like a big foot sighting there. i think it might be too late. i really do. think that he is a smart man. he understands a lot of things and knows this game. but man, ted cruz is really stolen a march on donald trump on this front. in terms of what has to happen state by state, the cruz people have organizations, and are working this problem, coming -- paul manafort is coming in late to save the day on this front. >> a lot of would be difficult to say is subsequent ballot things. it is still possible. people are focused on manafort's role sort of -- >> at the convention. >> but it is possible that with manafort's help, they can get not just a bear majority, but they can get over. people talk about, well, trump

has to get 60%, whatever. he can. if kasich and cruz do not improve their games in the northeast and california, if he can win indiana, he can get well enough over, even with some defekss, the unaffiliated delegate, he can do it. >> it is a little dodging the question. what we're focused on, him as a convention manner and delegates. all i'm saying is if donald trump runs the table for the rest of the nomination, gets 1,237, either by the last contest or shortly thereafter, that is possible. really strong electoral performance by trump will make manafort unnecessary. >> they go hand in hand, right. you need to win in a way that maximizes the chances people will show up in cleveland ready to vote for you. >> he may be too late to help on the back end. >> that's correct. >> i like that we agreed about that. who is the strongest challenger to donald j. trump, billionaire. is it lyin' ted, what about paul

ryan. same answer, when being asked about a white knight for republicans in the case you've deadlocked convention. who, me? no way, not interested. not going to happen. and yet, and yet, today, ryan's office released this video from that stirring, quote, state of american politics speech he gave on capitol hill last month. the headline banner on the "drudge report," ball ryan launched his first campaign ad, with a cautionary question mark. we report. you decide. take a look. >> what really bothers me the most of politics these days is this notion of identity politics. we're going to win an election by dividing people. rather than inspiring people on our common humanity and come moon ideals and come mondcommon want to be prosperous. we want people to reach their potential in their lives.

liberals and conservatives will disagree, no problem. that's what this is all about. so let's have a battle of ideas. let's have a contest of whose ideas are better and why the ideas are better. >> okay, so every time we have talked on this show about the possibility as ryan as a white knight, me, you, others get upset. no, no, no, it won't happen. if they're sincere about that, what are they doing releasing videos like that. >> paul ryan said he would be the very model of a modern, major league speaker of the house who communicates in modern ways, using the trappings like foreign trips and well polished videos that look like what a presidential candidate would do. >> it is a -- >> look, these are sophisticated people. >> yes. >> they know when they put out a video out like this, this is what the reaction will be. i have some sympathy for them.

but i could tell you now, between now and the convention in cleveland, if you don't want people to talk but you as a potential nominee in cleveland, tamp it down. did that video need to come out in april? >> is paul ryan going do this, you put out a video like this, you would have to be a dope not to know how the video will react to this. exactly as we are, exactly as everyone is. they're not dopes. they know what they're doing. >> you are mad at me, i'm mad at you. stop doing this stuff if you don't want us to talk about it. that video was too well done to be a coincidence. >> and too advertising. it is what it is. >> they just don't have to -- >> it's a billboard for saying i want to be president. >> wait until after cleveland. we'll hear about them from them, i'm sure. when we come back, political highs and lows, the week that was, after this word from our

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believe it or not, just three days since the wisconsin primary. testament to the brave new world, that is a competitive new york presidential primary. so much has been compressed into 100 hours with empire state that we thought we would end the week with a game of highs and lows, starting with the republican and their hometown front-runner, donald j. trump, billionaire, we think it was the 10,000 person rally in bethpage on long island, the day after the primary, when trump made an early demonstration that he is indeed back on home turf. >> first of all, it's great to be home. this is home. it's great to be home. can you hear me all the way in the back? lyin' ted cruz came today. he couldn't draw 100 people. i've got this guy standing over

there, looking at me, talking about new york values with scorn in his face. with hatred. with hatred of new york. i'm a straight shooter. i shoot straight. like new yorkers. we shoot straight. >> so back on home turf, pretty confident, big crowd, and he is not done anything nearly as visible since then. >> but look, i mean, he needed to given the catastrophe or borderline catastrophe that wisconsin was for him in the eyes of everyone and reality. he needed to make emphatic that he was back. >> big show of force. >> bethpage is a great place to do it. no doubt. i haven't been impressed with anything since. that event was very strong. >> the other thing about it was i think we knew it, but people need to see, he is not just a city guy. he'll have strength on long island and people will see that donald trump has a commanding position in this state. >> let's talk about trump's low of the week. his low of the week was a post

wisconsin, three part turn in the conventional wisdom in the republican race. number one, trump will not get a majority of delegates before the national convention. two, if he doesn't get the majority on the first ballot, it will be difficult for him to whip delegates on subsequent ballots, and point three, the party is not as worried about a public relations nightmare if the republican front-runner doesn't win the nomination as some people thought they might be. those three-pieces of conventional wisdom. pretty universal. how bad, it's low, but how low? >> it's bad because we said wisconsin would give the anti-trump movement a shot in the arm. it isn't going to apply much in new york, and maybe in the states in the northeast, but that flipping conventional wisdom. if the party feels they can get away with keeping trump and stop him and survive that, that's a big change. >> this is one of these things where perception feeds reality. if you believe you can do it, you try to do it.

that makes things problematic for donald trump. >> he needs to get the majority, and his life will be much rougher if he can't. >> let's turn to ted cruz. hot off the wisconsin win, the texas senator high this week was a new reality, captured perfectly by a new york times story this morning. the headline, gop donors, eager to defeat donald trump learn to love ted cruz. you know, if i'm ted cruz's press secretary, that's pretty much like i've done my work for the month with that headline right there. "the new york times." >> let's see how much ends up in the bank. a lot of people quoted, aren't ready to write checks. amazing, i know we're talking about his high, not one significant endorsement in this period. but you do sense cruz goes out and touts the fact that he has five of the previous republicans who dropped out, and you do sense the reality that with kasich not stepping up, trump has a chance here. >> there is no question, it is

happening in two ways. one is that the low murmer that everyone hates ted cruz. >> the fact that he is still using this as his explanation for that new york values comment he made in the run up to iowa. >> everyone in new york and outside of new york knows exactly what i meant by that. and it is the liberal values of democratic politicians who have been hammering the people of new york for decades. they've suffered under these liberal values. >> it's as if the new york media was laying in wait for two months. >> we were, oh, we were. >> that answer, you know. >> horrible. >> there is not a reporter and probably including not a lot of new yorkers who look at that answer and say oh, that's what you meant. >> and of course, if you're the guy who is laboring under the label of lyin' ted cruz, that spin is so egregious it walks up to the edge of an out right lie.

that's clearly not what he was talking about. we know what you were doing out there in iowa. >> cruz is focused on other states and trying to get through the state whose values he seemed to impugn. all right, finally the best news for john kasich this week. a couple of polls show him not in third place, but second place, ahead of ted cruz. one is a monmouth, then there is the poll of maryland, the university of maryland, ten points, 41% to 31%. so this matters both in terms of momentum but potentially some delegate accumulation, which he sorely needs. >> if john kasich can get himself into a position where he can be a strong second to donald trump in a lot of these northeastern states and pennsylvania and other places, you know, it helps john kasich

and it helps keep -- it further impedes trump's ability to get to 1,237. it's a big deal for kasich. an improbable game. >> if he can go all three weeks, finish second in everyone, everyone but one, it gives him another talking about. first, it would be nice, and maybe maryland is close enough. connecticut could set up a good state for him. if he can steal a first in the next three weeks, that's a big deal for john kasich. >> let's talk about john kasich's low. besides that eating binge that he went on in the bronx yesterday, which some of us might consider another high point, the ohio governor struggled to break through into the national dialogue or a single news cycle where there wasn't a whole lot of other news on the republican side. mark, you know, this has been one of john kasich's biggest problems, not winning news cycles, the whole campaign, but this is really a prime moment to be able to do it, it has totally

failed. >> he started out in advertising, super pac talking about biography, washington record, now about electability, a new ad about electability, but you're right. new york, there was an opening there with the other two guys laying relatively low, an opening for him to make a splash and he hasn't done it. >> as the case coming out of ohio, we had a moment when he could have seized the narrative and did an event i believe in philadelphia, where he utterly failed to do that too. >> he did eat a ton of food in two different anaged. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease.

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that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority: you we continue our high and low lights of the week by turning to the contentious democratic race. after a tough loss in wisconsin, hillary clinton has done interviews with ms nbc "morning joe" and the today show this morning. in buffalo just this morning. all demonstrating the front-runner understands well that when you campaign in the media capital of the world, you don't want to run and hide from the media. that understanding, important. no? >> brilliant. they put her out just enough. probably more than they had to convey a sense that she is available. she has been available for than

usual two press availabilities. >> a lot of interviews. >> you cannot play hide-and-seek. you cannot run away. sanders is pretty available. this is super smart. hats off to her and her staff for doing this. >> it's a funny thing sheech. she can go around the country, a presidential year, reporters complain, she doesn't do another interviews. if she came here and was seen to be -- >> her majesty. >> it would have been endless and brutal. >> i don't want to be totally meta and optics about this. >> but you're about to. >> but she is answering questions from the press. in this point in the campaign, it's difficult to ask substantive questions. there has been some substantive questions, and again, super smart of them to do this. super smart. >> 100%. secretary clinton's low, we

could if we were a certain type of person, we could pick the turnstile yesterday. the real opportunity this week was the past two days, media coverage of the democratic nomination fight has been almost entirely focused on the back and forth over the question of which of these two candidates is qualified to be president and the tenor of the race, what wasn't being talked about very much during this, of course, bernie sanders' interview with the new york daily news ed board. that's what we news dodge like to call miss direction. if this flap hasn't broken out, the ed board would be getting almost all the coverage and that seems to be a low for the clinton folks who probably miscalculated it a little bit. >> i do think that bringing the question of qualifications into it was probably a mistake. i think she could have continued to basically say of course, he is qualified. he has been a united states senator. but he has bad ideas, he is

inadequately prepared. he doesn't under foreign policy. i'm much better. she could have made a lot more running with that ed board without getting overtaken by this. >> if the questioner said is bernie sanders a racist, she wouldn't say i'm going to let the voters decide. >> there are some questions about that. >> she would say no, of course not. is he qualified, of course, but i'm better. >> and he is inadequate in certain ways. let's move to senator sanders, as the bern. here is the senator on late night, with seth myers doing a rendition of yeah, bernt. >> let's get it going. bernie. what do you think about the 1%? >> the 1%, hey, 1%, what do you need all that money for? if i didn't know any better, i think you were trying to compensate for something. how is it possible that some of you are paying a lower tax rate

than your secretaries? that makes less sense than the plot of batman versus superman. 1%. >> he was funny and he proved he could play a late night show. he was good. >> but the thing about bernie sanders is that we have shown over a long period of time, he hals a good sense of humor. the truth is, he has gotten better at showing it than he was a year ago. he did shine on that show. however, there are also some low points for bernie sanders. this is bernie sanders lowest low. after the doubling down on his comments that hillary clinton super pac, her vote on iraq, the position on trade made her unqualified to be president, he backed away from that position on the today show this morning. >> i respect hillary clinton. we were colleagues in the senate. on her worst day, she will be -- she would be an infinitely

better president than either of the republican candidates. >> she is qualified? >> of course. >> okay, so sanders more full throatedly said the words, hillary clinton is not qualified, and now today, he has backed way from it entirely. explain why that is a bad move. >> then he went op the view and said once again she is not qualified. too much back and forth. he had a good argument if he framed it right and have the entire race focus on the issues. he gave it all up. >> all right, i don't disagree with anything you just said. all right, coming up next, bernie sanders' campaign manager, jeff weaver is here. we'll talk to him about this and more when we come back. vo: across america,

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our guest tonight is probably checking to make sure his passport has an extra stamp for italy. thanks for being here. >> thank you, gentlemen. >> we had a little discussion. we have a lot to talk about. let's start with the news of the day. we had a discussion earlier in the show. why does it make sense in a must win primary context for bernie sanders to get on a plane and go to italy just a couple of days before the new york primary? >> well, look, bernie sanders obviously has a great infinity for the pope. he speaks about it often. when his invitation came from the vatican, i mean, he was enthusiastic, wanted to accept immediately and he did. that's why. the issue of the moral economy, you know, the centerpiece of bernie sanders' life frankly and we have a pope who is focused on it. i think it was a can't miss opportunity. >> yeah, but just on the politics of it, a lot of people

have admiration for the pope and i understand, but this is a state you must win. taking it -- >> well, we could talk about that in a minute. >> you don't dispute the notion this is an important state. >> very important state. >> he'll be out of the market for a pretty long time. it seems to me in terms of time allocation, this might not be something that you would necessary want to do. >> well, some things are more important than politics, john. this is one of them. >> will this trip in any way perfectly executed help you win the new york primary? >> no, i don't think that's the calculous at all. bernie sanders has a lot of infinity for the pope. particularly, they worked -- they both work on this issue. when the invitation came through, he was deeply honored and accepted. >> any chance the trip will be canceled? >> not as far as we're concerned. >> zero percent. >> i predicted earlier that it would be. >> by who? >> i did. i don't think you're going.

>> me personally. >> i don't think senator sanders will go. i think you all will tell him like on wednesday afternoon, you know what, this thing is close enough, if you stay, you could win the primary. that's my prediction. >> i think -- >> i don't mean to play with history an the future. >> but you do, actually. but no, i think he'll go. >> you're going? >> absolutely. >> he is not meeting with the pope? no indication he'll meet with the pope. >> no indication. >> we'll move on from this topic. i want to ask you one more question. >> of course. >> he could lose new york by one point. which symbolically would not be good. the pope will still be the pope after the new york primary. no one -- >> god willing. >> i don't think anyone will change their view of the importance. so just to clarify. fess not going to meet with the pope, is he going because he is honored? is he going because this is a can't miss conference? is he going because he thinks it would be rude to say no? like why does he have to go now? >> well, the invitation is for

now? >> he'll never be invited again? >> when you get invited by the vatican, i think you go. >> no matter what? no matter what else you have going on? >> look we're going to make the trip as efficiently as possible. and we'll be back. >> all right, let's move on to -- >> i want to note for the record, though, that a campaign manager who comes on the air and says some things are more important than politics, john, that just raises a lot of -- it raises a certain number of suspicions. >> the cynical among us. >> why did your candidate today within the span of a couple of hours say secretary clinton is of course, she is qualified to be president and she is not qualified. >> i think there has been what does qualified mean, right. is she resume qualified? obviously, right. who doesn't think she is. everybody would agree to that. has she exhibited judgment on a number of issues, iraq war, the way she funds her campaign with big dollar money. trade deals, so on and so forth.

judgment issues which sort of disqualify her, which is different than being unqualified. >> maybe he should have said disqualified? >> i think that more accurately describes it. >> back and forth as we sit here reflecting, back and forth good for your campaign. >> after we came out of wisconsin with a big win, i was on cnn on the night of the victory in wisconsin, and jeff zeleny reports, they have a new strategy in new york. disqualify him, defeat him and reunite the party later. clearly, we were going to come into new york. they were going to sharpen their elbows and rough and tumle in new york. and he was going to get beaten about the head and shoulders and rolled by the hillary organization. that's not going to happen. >> did you win, that's the -- here we are on friday, political matter, you won the week on this

fight over the question -- >> the tone from the clinton campaign is ratcheted now way down. >> let me take issue with this one thing. you said about how you thought you've been saying for months now, you guys have set the pace on policy in this campaign and that the clinton campaign has called the tune on tone. >> tone yeah. >> so yesterday, when you said on television that hillary clinton had made a bunch of deals with the devil. >> i didn't say she made a deal with the devil. i said -- the devil always wants his due. >> what thing has the clinton campaign said approaches that in terms of negativity of tone? >> well, the entire, how about the disqualified, defeat, and reunite the party later. indicating they're going to go so bad in their view, they're going to have to pick up the pieces later. >> you went on television with your face on tv and said that. i'm not disputing jeff zeleny's reporting, but it's different for someone in the campaign to say to a reporter.

you went on the television and talking about deals with the devil. as a tonal thing, it seems harsh. >> the message is, the message is, if you want to play on that level, we're not just a bunch of guys from vermont, right. we can play on that level. >> we get you are tough and everything, but what did they say, the question i asked in the beginning, what did they say on the record in front of a camera that was any where close to the negative tonal negativity. it seems you set the pace yesterday. >> no, it started with them and we responded. and their tone is now ratcheted way down. >> you can see when the clinton campaign puts out these memos, you can see things are tough for you, right? they're tough. >> i don't know what tough means. she was way over 300 delegate lead, you know, just a short time ago. now she is about 215. >> right. >> it's going down. wyoming will be saturday, tomorrow. we're winning additional

delegates in nevada in the caucuses, we're going to win additional delegates other than the other caucuses we're won. >> but it's an uphill climb. >> of course, but it's been an uphill climb. >> just talk between now and june, california votes, talk about how you're going to overtake her. explain that to people who your supporters say they want hope, when they read over and over, press is saying mathematically hillary clinton will win. talk through the calendar how you catch up. >> how we catch up is, look, we have to win the majority of states going forward. no doubt about that. good margins in a number of them. we don't have to win everywhere. we don't have to win every state. we don't have to win every state big. >> what states will you win big and pick up the gap? >> say like organ, field poll out in california, we haven't really done any advertising or organizing in california, only down six points. polls out of pennsylvania look very, very good. i think there is a lot of states

coming forward. we're going to do well in. >> where, explain how you overtake her delegate lead. >> we have to do well in new york. i don't know if it's a win or close win. in some ways, i think there is more pressure on her than us. we've got 86% in vermont. that was bernie's state. i don't think hillary clinton will get 86%. i don't think she has to. if she gets 50% in new york. >> if she wins with 51% of the votes, you guys get equally delegates. you haven't made any ground if that happens. >> right. >> i think we'll do well in pennsylvania for instance. >> you'll win more delegates in pennsylvania. >> absolutely. i think we're going to do well in the two new england states. i think we're going to do well in the rest of the western states. i think we're going to probably gain 15 or 20 net delegates out of caucuses process, over time. like we did in nevada. >> okay, but that doesn't catch

you up. >> it does catch you up. >> no, it really doesn't. >> well, i have a chart. >> oh, bring the chart. we would like to see the chart. >> it shows you with realistic projections, yes, passing her in pledged delegates, on the night of the california primary? >> well, is california and nuew jersey states. let's be clear. no one is going to the convention with a sufficient number of pledged delegates to wrap it up. >> obama campaign butt putt down their projections and showed everybody how hillary clinton would never be able to catch up. i know you don't have it with you right now, but if you have such a piece of paper, there say precedent for actually publishing, give us a sense, again, there is precedent. >> i think they published it by accident. >> nevertheless. >> he gave it to a reporter by accident. >> you can accidentally e-mail it to me by accident, and we can hold you accountable for this

claim. you said there will be a contested convention on the democratic side. >> i don't think anybody will arrive with the majority of pledged delegates. >> it is a battle for super delegates. >> so what's the argument. we had an interpretview with sl james, he said i'm with her no matter what, she will be the best president no matter what. what is the argument that bernie sanders makes to super delegates that have been with hillary clinton forever. what is the compelling argument you make. >> a lot of the super delegates have been with her before there was a race, frankly. >> right. >> with her by default. >> they're very loyal. what causes them to abandon her. >> a continuation of bernie sanders' success electorally in the primary and caucuses system which will further expose that the secretary has some severe weakness in her candidacy. we'll see the continuation of the months long polling data,

which shows that against every republican, he does better than she does. in fact, many of those republicans, she loses to, right. so she loses to john kasich often. she loses to ted cruz often. not only in national polls, but in state polls, battle ground state polls. bernie sanders almost always beats them all, right. so he is a much stronger candidate in the fall. he'll create the enthusiasm in november. he is wildly popular with independent voters. 25% of americans are democrats. hillary clinton is wildly popular with self-identified democrats. no doubt about that. favorables are high. when you go to independents, her favorables, rightly or wrongly, fall off a cliff, right. if you can't bring independents into the fold, you're not going to elect a president or elect down ballot. bernie sanders has shown he can do that in national head to head against republicans. certainly in the democratic primary process, he gets often

70% or more of independent who are democratically aligned. he is a much stronger candidate who can deliver the vote in november, not only for himself, but for everybody down the ticket. >> i know that senator sanders is not interested in talking about her e-mail server. you have to worry about every possible variable. is the process, the progress of the justice department investigation could be something that could change the race? >> well, i mean, obviously, but you know, i don't think we're really -- that's not what we're relying on. we're going to run the election as if that's not happening. >> but it's possible from your point of you, because you follow it by reading the newspaper. >> i do read the newspaper. >> is it possible that something could happen in the investigation that could change the view of the super delegates, the view of the voters? >> yes, anything is possible. >> anything is possible, including the -- >> yeah, of course. >> when this ends, however this ends, what will you tell your son you did in this campaign? >> what will i tell him i did? >> yeah.

>> what i did is i gave my small part to present to the american people the candidate with the most honest candidate who has been out there for a long time, the greatest boldest vision for america. i think bernie sanders is really transformed america. >> win or lose. >> i think in many ways, he has already won. we're winning to win the presidency, but yes, he has transformed the party. young people, bringing young peop people into the political pr process. >> do you like that answer? >> very quick, i know you made an argument about electability before, you're not saying hillary clinton is unelectable, are you. >> i'm not saying that. i would say she has some -- there are some severe questions about her electability, if she can't overcome that, the problem is after the convention, you have short window between then and the general election. if you have to convince independent voters you're honest before you can present your substantive message, it puts you in a bad situation.

>> all right, jeff weaver, that was a lengthy interview, but highlight. >> interesting and entertaining. i'm looking forward to seeing the delegate chart that will convince all of us that he is clearly on a path to getting the majority of pledged delegates rc rc. we'll be right back, right after this. so i'm going to take this opportunity to go off script. so if i wanna go to jersey and check out shotsy tuccerelli's portfolio, what's it to you? or i'm a scottish mason whose assets are made of stone like me heart. papa! you're no son of mine! or perhaps it's time to seize the day. don't just see opportunity, seize it! put under a microscope, (applause) we can see all the bacteria that still exists. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria.

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so we just talked to bernie sanders campaign manager, about what the campaign has to do to win enough super delegates to turn the tide in the democratic fight. what is a super delegate? do they have super powers? are they used for good or for evil? huh. by the numbers series, we sought to answer those very questions. >> bernie sanders big win in wisconsin gives him 47 fleg pledged delegates. he has 1,027 to clinton's 1,279. this math does not include super delegates. who are the super delegates you asked? not elected by primary voters, but automatically given a voice in the nomination process because of their position in the party. examples include hawaii, chuck schumer, and terry mcauliffe.

clinton's lead jumps. hinges on whether or not he can convince super delegates to switch sides. the easiest ones to convert are those states that he has won, like new hampshire governor. even then, his chances are slim. he still needs about 60% of the remaining delegates. that would take big wins in states he is expected to do well in, like connecticut, delaware and rhode island and surprise upsets, new york, new jersey and pennsylvania. so sanders path to the nomination, very, very tough. but to borrow a word from ralph wiggam, not up-possible. >> we just talked to weaver about the super delegates and flipping them. most of them will be loyal to the clintons. don't think despite what the foals show that senator is

electable. >> super delegates are overrated in this sense. in the democratic party, especially a populous moment, the super delegates will have a hard time denying the will of the electorate. what no one is arguing right now is bernie sanders, except for jeff weaver, overtake hillary clinton, going to get somehow what ahead of her in pledged delegates, and that might in other circumstances, ahead in pledged delegates, they're not going to leave the clintons to -- >> defy the voters of your own states caucus or primary, but it is still will be tough to flip them. that's why i brought up the e-mail investigation. >> right. we'll be right back with baseball. been very good to this program, and donald trump, after this. with the image, it takes me back to my time as a painter. and i just can't do that on my mac.

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baseball, baseball,

baseball. the return of the greatest game means three things for us. a reason to eat crackerjacks in the office, outdoor meetings with sources. and of course, the great will leach. we wanted will to do a baseball segment so badly, and believe it or not, a perfect angle. donald trump. here is will. >> baseball is back. the crack of the bat, the smell of freshly cut grass. grown men running around in their pajamas, spitting everywhere in sight. how we've missed it. and like everybody else in american culture right now, baseball is not immune from the donald. >> i think the thing i like best is the baseball. >> stars are endorsing him. >> thank you, paul. >> beloved paul o'neal shoved up at a rally, and red sox idiot, johnny david declared if trump needs me any where, i'll be there. but it's a different story in

the owner's box. there is no more perfect example of an establishment republican than a baseball owner. st. louis cardinals, the unofficial fraternity, close friends with george w. bush and gave heavily to punching bag jeb bush. now that trump is close to clinching a nomination, they've come to the batter's box to take a swing. wife of ken kendrick, said they're willing to lose fans, even more active than the ri rickkets family. they've given millions to the anti-trump pac, this angry tweet from trump. i hear the rickkets family are spending money against me. they better be careful. they have a lot to hide. >> if we have something to hide, you guys would have found it i'm

sure. >> it's a little surreal when donald trump threatens your mom. it is not actually marlene rickkets, tom's mom who is responsible for this ad. >> scam america too. >> so maybe trump will be shut out of baseball. at least he always has football. >> football has become soft. the referees want to throw flags so their wife sees them at home. it's true. all right, thanks as always to the great will leach. we'll be right back with the matzo man, ted cruz. why do so many businesses rely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywhere.

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talk to your doctor and visit humira.com. this is humira at work. presidential campaigning in new york means serious food pandering, pizza, bagels, how about matzo, oh, yeah, mot zo. ted cruz visited a bakery from brooklyn with some children and all of us saying oy vey. enjoy. >> pick up your matzo. >> i would love to make one. >> make the holes. are you excited that senator cruz is here? >> yeah! >> your own matzo. >> oh, boy.

on monday, mrs. jane sanders joining us here in the studio to talk about the new york primary. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. battle on broadway. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. after a big loss in wisconsin this week, hillary clinton went on offense and fired a shot across bernie sanders bowel. he hit back showing he can more than defend himself. the fight kept up thursday when he taped an interview for friday's today show. she denied ever saying sanders was not qualified to be president. friday morning, sanders called a truce, after two days of slamming qualifications, he took back what he said about clinton herself being unqualified. here is what he said on