on monday, mrs. jane sanders joining us here in the studio to talk about the new york primary. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. battle on broadway. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. after a big loss in wisconsin this week, hillary clinton went on offense and fired a shot across bernie sanders bowel. he hit back showing he can more than defend himself. the fight kept up thursday when he taped an interview for friday's today show. she denied ever saying sanders was not qualified to be president. friday morning, sanders called a truce, after two days of slamming qualifications, he took back what he said about clinton herself being unqualified. here is what he said on "the today show."

>> here is the truth. i've known hillary clinton for 25 years. i respect hillary clinton. we were colleagues in the senate. on her worst day, she will be -- she would be an infinitely better president than either of the republican candidates. >> she is qualified. >> of course. >> hillary didn't want to let it go. she continued the war of wards. >> you may have heard senator sanders say i'm unqualified to be president. well, seriously. seriously, i've been called a lot of things over the years, but unqualified has not been one of them. this morning, he finally acknowledged that of course, he doesn't really believe that. this is all pretty silly. the question in this election should be who can actually get things done. >> well, shortly after that, in a gaggle with the press, clinton too backed down, answering to reporters that yes, sanders was

qualified, is qualified. any way, tad devine, sanders campaign, two term governor of pennsylvania supporting hillary clinton. governor, hillary clinton, she was a little snagged up there, unable to end the war. she is still firing. bernie stopped saying she was unqualified. she said oh, yeah, he said i was. no longer unqualified. but i'm going to keep fighting. then something happened and she said okay, we'll call the truce. what's going on? >> in fairness, secretary clinton said yesterday, chris, that bernie sanders was infinitely better than donald trump or ted cruz. she said that yesterday, which is essentially what senator sanders said about her. both sides should understand that all they're doing by calling each other liars, by saying unqualified or things like that, they're feeding the republican propaganda machine, regardless of who the nominee is. they're for getting why they got

in the race in the first place. they go the in the race to have a progressive supreme court, end income inequality. to do something about universal health care, to create jobs by rebuilding the infrastructure. those are the things that matter. who is the president going to be, and look, we've done so well for so long compared to the republican campaign. it was a shame what happened here. and the problem with senator sanders taking back that hillary clinton is qualified, saying now, that quote that she is unqualified, those 30 seconds are there. if hillary clinton is the nominee and i believe she will be, that's going to be used by the republicans in the fall. >> tad, why did -- tad devine, explain why he went that far? >> well, because he did that on tuesday night, after a won a sweeping victory in wisconsin, the clinton campaign announced publicly through jeff zeleny on cnn that they will have a new strategy, it was called disqualify bernie sanders to

defeat them. all of the surrogates refusing to say whether or not bernie sanders was qualified. they launched surrogates to tack him on guns and foreign policy. they thought they were going to come into the new york primary and blow him out. even though comes from a small rural state, he is able to play the new york primary game. >> that's exactly what donald trump said when he put out the picture against heidi cruz. he did it first. this is 5-year-old stuff. he did it first, or she did it first is exactly the trump defense. >> chris, they were going to run us over with a truck here in new york. okay, i've been through new york primaries before. i know what it's like. i'm very happy to hear secretary clinton has finally said the words that bernie sanders is qualified to be president. okay, because saying he is better than donald trump, listen, i've got a 28-year-old daughter, she is better than donald trump for president.

that wasn't good enough. she is saying, he said it. let's talk about the issues. there are big differences on big issues. we should debate them in new york. >> governor, hillary clinton, i have a theory here. excuse me, my theory is pretty blunt. to really upset the hillary campaign, to really turn this election around, he began it this week by winning in wisconsin. if he knocks out hillary at home, this is serious business. losing at home is almost unforgiveab unforgiveable. you lose at home, you've lost. isn't that why this campaign has turned tough, because hillary clinton is worried about bernie sanders beating her in new york? isn't that why she has gotten tough? >> no, i don't think so. let's assume bernie sanders were to win 51% of the vote in new york. he is not going to pick up nearly enough delegates to have a real path to victory. most observers agree, there is no path to victory for bernie sanders. look, i am a super delegate, as a super delegate, i will vote for the person who has the

highest combination of popular vote and secretary clinton has 2.4 million more popular votes than bernie sanders. and the most elected delegates. she has 240 more elected delegates. that's not going to change. it may go down, but it's not going to change. so the super delegates aren't going to haj. she'll win the majority of elected delegates. so look, i think that's all not necessary, and we shouldn't do things that hurt us in the fall. look, if bernie sanders is the nominee, he is going to need the hillary clinton supporters. if hillary clinton is the nominee, she will need the bernie sanders supporters. we should keep that in mind or blow an opportunity that has been handed to us by the republicans. >> let's take a look after what mr. jeff weaver, the campaign manager for senator sanders had to say just recently in the last few hours. here is what he said. he is keeping at this. he said clinton has made a deal with the devil. we all know what it means.

you've sold your soul to the devil. here is what he is saying now. let's watch. >> i think if you look at her record, if you look at her campaign, you know, her campaign is funded by millions and millions of dollars from wall street and other special interests. you know, she has made a deal with the devil and we know the devil wants his money in the end. so that's the kind of campaign she is running. she has supported these terrible trade deals, which have devastated american manufacturing in this country, supported the war in iraq, continues to have a hawkish foreign policy, expanded isis throughout the middle east. >> he didn't get the truce word, did he, tad? >> that was early, chris. that was early this morning. >> that means he might have well said she is no damn good. what else does he have to say? you said this isn't going to be about person. but you can say it's about issues, but basically he is damning her. >> well, listen. >> he is. >> how you fund your campaign is an issue. jeff is right about that. >> deal with the devil?

>> listen, jeff will speak for himself. he is a former marine i am a former altar boy. >> that's exactly right. >> jeff made the points is a valid point. how you fund your campaign. she has numerous super pacs, okay, and in the last quarter, the biggest one raised $15 million from wall street. that's a legitimate issue. she has a super pac that is -- >> we don't -- >> did barack obama make a deal with the devil? >> we're not running against barack obama. >> answer that question. answer that question. >> sure, i'll be happy to answer that question. the system of campaign finance in this country is corrupt. fortunately now, bernie sanders can run a campaign by relying on small dollar contributions. i don't think we could have done it, president obama could have done it in 2008. the technology allows you to do it. if he was running today, he would probably not take a dime for super pacs, he would run outside the system, just like

bernie sanders. >> well, chris, first of all, i object to someone who is running for office 17 times, 15/2 record, that would get me about $22 million a year. someone who has run for office 17 times, i have taken money from businesses and interests, and then made decisions directly adverse to their welfare, because i cared about the welfare of the people of pennsylvania or the people of philadelphia. that's what hillary clinton did. hillary clinton was a strong supporter of dodd frank, may not have been everything we wanted it to be, but wall street wanted to defeat dodd frank. he had taken money as say a senator, and yet she went ahead and did what was right to support dodd frank and get passed. you can take contributions. you don't make deals with the devil. you say to people, you give me money, i'll listen to you. i will not necessarily do what you want. i did that in 36 years as a public official.

hillary clinton has done that. barack obama has done that. and as to the trade deals, i assume that joe biden and secretary kerry also made a deal with the devil on trade, because they supported those same trade deals. >> well, tad, are they all guilty with deals with the devil? everybody supports the trade pack with the far east. you don't by the way take money from super pacs, but you allow them to help you. you're talking to the greatest mayor in the history of philadelphia. what are you making from the point here? that he wasn't -- >> listen -- >> first your guy is using a broad brush against every politician around and you saying technology has changed. where did you come up with that one? that's pretty good. >> chris, first of all, let me say what a great mayor and great governor and great party leader ed rendell was okay. let me put that on the table. in 2016, we have a corrupt

system of campaign finance that became rotten in 2010 when the united states supreme court took all the boundaries off fundraising and allowed corporations to pour as much money as they want into super pacs. the system is rotten right now. it really is. it's dichb fr it's different from the system we had in the past. bernie sanders wants to end it. but by taking action. he has shown us a new way forward. listen, i hope the dooep paremo party adopts what bernie is doing. not by taking special interest money, but by relying on millions of people and funding this campaign. that's what bernie is doing, and i'm very proud of that. >> tad, i mean, i really do, we talk about citizens united here. that's the devil as far as i'm concerned. governor, your last word here. >> i agree. citizens united, it was a disgraceful decision and caused a lot of the problems.

but hillary clinton has pledged to get rid of citizens united, just as bernie sanders would. >> if the democrats don't win the election, we're going to have more problems it seems to me. that's a reasonable judgment. any way, thanks so much, tad devine, great debate. i love the technology thing of yours. really brilliant. i love the latest in the state-of-the-art game of political argument. thank you, governor. everything we both said is true, about you. coming up, the high takes, do or die in no. bernie has the momentum. he is looking for a win. it could be break out time forp sanders if he gets it. what is john kasich up to? he is on the attack against cruz now. making a play for perhaps number two and on a possible republican ticket with mr. trump. i think that's what he'll have to call him, mr. trump. the "hardball" round table is here about something we don't know about the fight with bernie and hillary. it's crossed the bridges into

the city itself. finally, let me finish with the wonderful phrase, which i really like, new york values. this is "hardball," the place for politics. as a painter. and i just can't do that on my mac. whewhat does it look like?ss, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. thiand being able to use've worked oa pen like thisk. on the screen directly with the image, it takes me back to my time as a painter.

and i just can't do that on my mac. we've got new numbers on the grand prize this election year. california, which votes june 7th. let's go to the "hardball" scoreboard. according to field poll out there on the democratic side, hillary clinton is up. 6 point lead. clinton 47, sanders 41. not much a lead. it all could change in a few weeks. we'll be right back. a deluge of digital records. x-rays, mris. all on account...of penelope. but with the help of at&t, and a network that scales up and down on-demand, this hospital can be ready. giving them the agility to be flexible & reliable.

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anything but a finish line and it's kind of turned into a fire wall? >> you know, matt, i said from the very beginning, this is going to be a tough contest all the way through. and i did it because i remember '08, you know. i went the distance with then senator obama. and that's the way primary develop. welcome back to "hardball." hillary clinton said she'll distance in the democratic primary. it has gotten tough in new york, where both claim home turf. the latest national average by the way shows hillary clinton with just a four point lead now. just four points across the country, after all the delegates she has won. that will change if she gets a loss in new york. i really think so. if clinton manages to lose the state she represented for eight years in the u.s. senate it will shift significantly. i believe. we're going to check it with our experts.

hi hi heidi, i'll let you start off first. the one question, the wednesday morning after the new york primary. bernie has squeaked it. the national media, all in new york, goes nuts. she has been beaten at home and by then, the national numbers will close to nothing. i'm talking about the stakes. >> the national numbers. >> everything. >> well, it's a huge psychological shift, right. he has beat her in wisconsin, michigan, new york. huge psychological shift. the delegate math doesn't change all that much, but you know what does change, bernie can then go to the super delegates and say look, especially in the states i carried, you need to come over and support me now. so that then leads to a mathematical, an actual mathematical shift that he can carry into a state like you mentioned, california, although, chris, i did look at the biggest delegate states that follow, like pennsylvania. >> we get there.

>> new jersey, she is actually ahead way more than she is in new york. >> he could pick up connecticut. by the way, the national number, if that comes equal after new york, i look at this as a big, big win for him, and a big loss for her. and i think about the other way, it's not as significant if she beats him. it is certainly significant if he wins. >> well, here is the thing. she always starts out way ahead in these states. until you get to the states, and it's primary time. the problem that she has is that bernie sanders appears, and in fact, has all the momentum. he has won acceseven out of the he has the kids, the energy, the crowd, source, money as tad devine was saying. they do have -- >> what is the crowd source. >> the small donations. >> small donations, amplified by the internet and social media. that's where bernie is strong. it's not just -- >> he is pulling out $400,000 a

day or something. >> it's not just that he has young voters. he has the young technology. he has the way to amplify the power of small donations. that's a new paradigm in not only campaigning. >> if he wins new york, everybody hasn't maxed up, now is your chance to double down. >> as you were saying, new york is the media capital not only of the united states, but in many ways the world. you can't overstate the megaphone effect of new york. so it's a local contest in a global place. if hillary loses there, and by wait, i'm not sure she will. she still has most of the jewish voters in new york. she is going to have the loyalty of most, especially the older african-americans, a lot of hispanic support, but between that style of interest group by interest group politics. >> new york. >> and, though, the general waive politics of sanders. the thing is that brooklyn is not the brooklyn that we knew, chris. >> that's the question we

skipped over. it's also a closed primary, right. so how has bernie ridden to success in a lot of these states, it has been on the independent voters. the other alternative, it is just a squeaker, very close. even in that case, it will be a psychological blow going into a general election. she'll be seen, perceived as a weaker candidate if she had carried the state by a much bigger margin. >> you're great. talk about the new brooklyn. it's not the old jewish and catholic, not the old clubs. >> do you want the bagel. it's not food by food. it's not the old ethnic groups. it's now hipsters, younger people, knowledge workers, young people, 35 and under, who for whom college education has in some cases been a boon, but not entirely. bernie talking about free college education, the knowledge workers rights, health care, et cetera, et cetera, is powerful. >> let's talk about the other

side, you start heidi. if bernie doesn't make it, we call them first names in the democratic party. it doesn't seem to bother anybody. bernie against hillary. suppose he loses new york. i think it shatters him. i don't know how you lose new york, you go into pennsylvania, maryland and the rest of him it's going to be hard to say i'm going to beat her. >> that's why her campaign rightfully says this is a must win. because -- >> his campaign too. >> because then you lose the critical component i was talking about at the top, making any kind of case to the super delegates. that's why you see bernie's people folksing on them now. unless they have epic sweeps, he can't just win new york, he has to sweep it. i think the headlines -- >> it's the math, chris. >> saturday night live, the newspapers, the next day on all the major networks, bernie, bernie, bernie. >> yeah, here is the thing. he wins if you and chuck todd and company don't call it by

11:00, okay. bernie wins. >> how? explain. >> because that means it's a virtual tie and it means he will have fought a two term incumbent senator from new york to a standstill. >> but you've got to beat the champ, do you remember that rule. >> yeah, i do. >> reminding people of clinton's vulnerabilities, she said on morning joe j morning joe, here is the senator. >> how often have i talked about hillary clinton's e-mails? have you heard me? not a word. how often have i talked about the clinton foundation's fundraising. have you heard me say one word about it during the campaign. to say i am running a vvitrioli campaign -- >> why aren't you? >> that was bernie channelling richard nixon. he would say well, i could discuss that, it would be wrong. >> some people say the supreme

court is loaded with communists. >> isn't that what trump -- >> everyone, he hit all the bad problems about hillary clinton and said but i wouldn't -- when i have talked about that? >> the first time he did it in the debate, i'm sick about hearing about your e-mails. >> when i have, just a second ago. >> everybody applauded him the first time he did it, but if you continue doing it, there is an obvious different reason. >> irritated, why did you say that i'm unqualified. take it back. >> both of them have said in the last 24 hours the same thing you say. when you're not really confident of your message to the people. they're both saying the other guy i'm running against, or woman in this case, she is still better than cruz or trump. and is that all they can say, because they both said that about each other, you know. is that the best you could do? tad devine said, if all you could say they're better than trump or cruz, you're really not making a case. >> well, it shows under the surface, there is actually a lot of irritation, not just by hillary, but by bernie.

it goes back to his shouting remark when she screamed sexism and it's been building ever since then. the question is, how much time are they going to have for him to decide that he is not gsh - he is going to say nicer things about her and things that are so nice that you're not only go to have the minorities and women, but also the young people who are actually really -- >> you're on the spot. you're the first woman on the show. you're number three or four, okay. so tonight, you have to -- was there some sexism in bernie sanders' attack on lack of qualifications? no one would say that about the former secretary of state if they were male, if they were been the united states senator, because those are qualifications. >> okay, ready to get flamed on twitter here, but i don't think so. i think he was just generally ticked off that she wouldn't answer the question, whether he was qualified, and he said oh, you're going to do that i'm going to call you unqualified. i don't know if would have been any different if it from a male. >> i think it was more

schoolyard brooklyn. some people are interpreting it that way. >> bernie, i think many months ago on the show, somebody asked me about it, bernie sanders is not a nice guy, and -- >> bernie sanders is -- >> he is crabby. >> i like the way you did that. anybody say about a male, secretary of state, that they're unqualified, by definition, that job makes you qualified. >> if his opponent went around saying that, i might. >> i like your courage. >> thank you howard fineman and heidi. if you want to get ahold of her, usa today. i love courage. sometimes it's great. bernie/hillary fight. more with the round table. up next, john kasich going up to ted cruz ahead of the primary. could a second place finish propel kasich to a strong number two ahead of the contested convention, could he position himself with a lot of delegates to demand the vp job if he wants it or be asked for it by trump. i notice trump doesn't hit kasich. i fight that fascinating.

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i'm milissa rehberger. here is what is happening. the suspect arrested earlier in belgium. 31-year-old hoemd abrini, known as the man in white, seen in airport surveillance video, also suspected in the paris attacks last year. spacex successfully launched a capsule bound for the space station, carrying supplies and experiments. they landed on a floating barge, they erupted in cheers at the headquarters in california. back to "hardball." my goal is to win as many delegates as i can heading into the convention. and it's important for me to continue to raise money, to

build political team. and i'm -- i've been playing from behind the whole time. the reason why i've been playing from behind for the whole time is because i didn't in the beginning, and i'm not now, going to take the low road to the highest office in the land. >> that was governor john kasich on the campaign trail this week, after scoring zero tell gaidelee is continuing to fight hoping for a better reception in new york and connecticut. his campaign is out with a pair of new ads, exclusively taking aim at ted cruz. here is one. >> in iowa, ted cruz sneared at our new york values. >> i think most people know what new york values are. they're not iowa or new hampshire values. everyone knows what new york values. >> ted cruz divides to get a vote. john kasich unites to get things done. >> another ad, the campaign cast doubt on cruz's ability to get enough delegates for the nomination, asserts kasich has a

better chance of taking down hillary clinton in november. >> you have only one choice. one choice that will stop the clinton political machine. john kasich. don't be fooled. ted cruz can't win the nomination outright. he can't defeat hillary clinton, either. >> well, kasich is the one counted that donald trump hasn't lashed out much at least. what is the ohio governor's game plan. is he looking to land on the ticket with trump. who knows. i'm thinking, though. joining me at the round table, john stanton, left of me, buzzfeed news, sabrina, this thought i have. it's interesting, because first of all, snaring is a great word. a great word for cruz. he is getting personal and exploiting out of a stupid line like new york values means he is

going for number two, which pushing the so-called cruz out of the game. >> if you're john kasich, you don't believe the establishment actually intends to rally behind tech in the long-term. they're doing it now to deprive donald trump. that's when he believes he is the one they're going to turn to. he has the polling sthto show i the only one that can beat hillary clinton. >> it's consistent, by the way. >> quote-unquote stole the nomination. he ran the campaign and whether it wab jeb bush or marco rubio. >> where do you see so little contention between trump, the front-runner, the usual target and the guy who is tagging last, lagging last? they don't trash each other. >> no, they don't. because donald trump only attacks two people. the super, super weak and a threat. and i bet you, any day now, donald trump will turn his sights on john kasich if looks like he is -- >> unless he wants him on the

ticket. >> chris, i don't believe -- >> why? what is the one state of republican candidate must win historically, has to bin, ohio. >> it's ohio. but that requires john kasich to have a soul conversion to go on the ticket of a man he -- >> the road is very busy these days. >> chris christie is a prime example. john john kasich is as much as an tune nist. >> john kasich has a make a play and not be the third little weakling, it is here in new york. that ad, talking about new york values, that's his shot that's his shot. >> for number two. >> yes, for number two. >> what is he up to, john? >> i think what jonathan said is right. to me, the whole question is i don't understand why he thinks they're going to turn to him eventually. the person that the establishment they're going to turn to will have to have enough of the antiestablishment voters to come along.

john kasich is nothing but an establishment figure. he has been in washington figure, governor like he is super establishment. the idea -- right. the notion that he'll be able to pick up any of the trump or cruz voters. >> i always like to watch peter king. here he is. ready. kasich isn't the only person, here is republican congressman from new york, peter king, taking a shot at the texas senator. >> any new yorker even thinks of voting for ted cruz, needs to have their head examined. ted cruz wearing cowboy boots criticizing us. listen, i hopes he gets the cold shoulder, send him back where he belongs. >> that sounds like ed koch, the mayor of new york, any jewish person votes for jesse jackson, they have a hole in their head. that sounds so new york. >> peter king hates ted cruz. he was one of the most vocal critics during the government

shut down in 2013. this serves as a reminder to really under state where the republican party is when ted cruz -- >> why does he hate ted cruz. >> because ted cruz still represents the person who was willing to torpedo his own party to pursue his own agendas, it's hard to -- he also torpedoed -- go ahead. >> what did he torpedo. >> to block hurricane sandy funding. oh, he has made this line about new york values, throughout his career, once he got into the senate, and really sort of used that a lot against people. >> what does he mean when he talks to the country folk? what is he saying. >> basically city people. >> it's actually elitist. >> what does it mean? >> also urban -- >> pro gun control, supportive of same sex marriage. >> yeah. >> not religious. >> blah, blah, blah. >> you don't listen to country

music in your pickup truck. >> that line as an exile of new yorker here in washington, that line about cowboy boots is a real sting. you see that, you do this. you think come on. >> good night, cowboy. >> i don't know it goes that far, chris. but cowboy, really, in the midst dill new york city. come on, man. >> they don't like that? >> no, we don't. >> why not? >> we don't have enough time for that. >> you gave me these looks. i can't interpret them. >> that's country values, right. like people in new york look at people like oh, you're -- >> so we're going to come back here in a minute. i want to try to figure out this guy's facial expressions. any way, the round table sticking with us, it's the democratic battle for broadway ahead of the crucial new york primary. it will all happen. this is the blow out.

but i can't think of anything as good as this fight for new york. this is great stuff. it will reverbrate around the world. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. there are two billion people

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welcome back to "hardball." the round table still with us. john, sabrina and jonathan. let's go back to the big story of the night, the battle for broadway, hillary clinton and bernie sanders, which will be a hot one this weekend again. john, i think this battle is one of those ones that truly is do or die. i mean, bernie overtake hillary has to start in new york. you blow it apart and break out. all things can happen. if he runs short by a point or

two, hillary clinton has -- >> she can't lose new york. she absolutely cannot lose new york. she is still ahead in the polls. again, the longer bernie sanders is on the ground, the better he does. his economic message will play well downstate. it probably will play extremely well upstate, which isn't as -- >> explain. >> because downstate means the five boroughs of new york city, westchester and long island, everything else, when you look a map of the state of new york, downstate is blue, upstate is red, with pockets of blue in places. so bernie sanders can get around the state and get his message out. he has 11 more days to do that. he could do very well in the state. but here is the problem, and it started on monday, when the daily news editorial board came out. it was a disaster for bernie sanders. >> what did you think of the politics of that decision, the way they handled it? >> what do you mean? >> what do you think of the

decision? >> which decision? >> like these kind of things, you think this is the way things happen. things are made to happen. what do you think -- where is zuckerman on this race. >> i don't know. i don't work there any more, chris. >> i would like to know where he stands. >> the interview happened on aprili april 1st. it came out on april 4th. he needs to have the new york media capital. >> i'm trying to del lyynnate t. are they regular democrats, or, you know, new coming progressive democrats like bernie. i would say they're with hillary. i figured out these tabs. you worked there. >> i worked there. i can tell you the choice between bernie sanders and hillary clinton, it's clear. it's hillary clinton. but bernie sanders didn't do himself any favors by not being

able to handle the interview. >> going into the process like this sort of run up to the vote where he could have set his own agenda. >> could you read that thing? i read it a number of times. one side, the editorial board is talking about the fed, the guys on the ed board should have said name the provision you will use to take apart the big banks. just end this conversation. why didn't they do that to him? >> he doesn't have a realistic plan to actually do what he -- >> why didn't they just say what provision. >> the onus is not on them to get the question right. the onus is on him to answer, as john set, set the agenda. you've been running on this bernie sanders for a year and a half, two years. this is your campaign, and you cannot put the new york daily news editorial page by telling them -- >> i think it's always a bad day for bernie.

>> it was a bad week. he didn't do himself any favors that hillary clinton isn't qualified to be president. which he so clearly reversed his opinion on today, recognizing i think the backlash that he received, where he has out right said she is qualified. >> a pretty broad definition, in other words, i disagree with her on the issues. if you voted for the iraq war, it makes you somebody i disagree with. >> somebody he disagrees with, and he opened himself up that was sexist, charges that he is feeding into republican talking points. that's their central argument against hillary clinton, she is unqualified. they're saying things like b benghazi. >> does he know that? >> i'm sorry. >> does he know they'll use it in the fall. >> i think he was genuinely irked because he believes it was a concerted effort to try to get rid of him, put him away. he of course is tying that to

clinton and her allies, whether -- >> do you think the end justifies the means? when you have strong philosophy that says this may be a little tough, unfair in the short run, but i've got a cause here, i've got to lead. >> yeah, that's what the basic definition is they believe it. >> his politics, 101, the same primary, not to explicitly say something that you won't be able to really walk back. he is going to have to come back and endorse hillary clinton and he essentially said by saying she was not qualified, they're unfit to be president. >> i want to hear from bernie lately, this strikes me. i'm used to politics. i think he really is, don't want to use the word negatively, but he is an ideological. the health care for life, he sees it as a shame. not something we can get to, we're working toward. no, he says it's a moral shame that we don't have health care. it's a right.

i believe it when he says it. that's not campaigning. >> no. >> that's deep belief. maybe that's something that social democrats around the world and all the other democrats believe it is a right. it is a red right we call it. it is not freedom from the government. you demand from society. we're dealing with somebody who has true believes here. >> you will find no one that says bernie sanders does not believe 100% in what he is saying. no one will say that. the argument is how then do you get to this universal health care. how then do you break up the banks and -- >> beating hillary clinton. >> but here is the problem. the problem he had with the new york daily news editor ral board, wall street is in new york. wall street is a big part of the tax base. wall street is a big part of the job base. if you're going to break up the banks, they want to know what happens to these people. he had no answer. >> do they still do advertising

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company do it. they won't tell us whether that will include people arrested, covering protests in the last couple of years. if you did something in college. >> who are they screening out? >> that's unclear. they won't tell us who they are trying to screen uout. it raises some troubling first amendment issues. it's got a lot foefks here in washington and the media world very, very concerned. >> what happened to the guy they put in a choke hold? >> nothing has happened to them. secret service agents have gotten into confrontation with reporters. they are working to keep reporters in the press pen. >> did you notice that the other day how far the press was from the action? >> yeah. >> the protesters way back. sabrina. >> the district conventions are under way and ted cruz is out

maneuvering donald trump. donald trump is so unorganized that his campaign had the wrong names on the delegate slate cards. in iowa they didn't explain to their supporters how the delegate selection process works. ted cruz is so organized they have data modelling to identify appropriate delegates for ted cruz. >> it doesn't move me. >> this isn't going to move you. after bernie sanders bombed, i asked my colleagues have you invited hillary clinton. they told me yes they invited her but they haven't heard back from her. i can confirm she will go to the daily news editorial board before the primary and wait for that transcript to come out. >> she'll be ready. she's good at this.

she had her brief. when we return, let me finish with new york values. you're watching hardball, the place for politics. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the rise, mary's data could be under attack. with the help of the at&t network, a network that senses and mitigates cyber threats, their critical data is safer than ever. giving them the agility to be open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t. and to connect us with thes twonderment of nature. with the tiger image, the saliva coming off and you got this turning. that's why i need this kind of resolution and computing power. being able to use a pen like this on the screen directly with the image, it just gives me a different relationship to it and i can't do that on my mac. this is brilliant for me.

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i thought 9/11 ended all that. i thought the new york firefighters ended all that and the cheap aside the people that grow up in cities like the right stuff, the inner strength to defend this country. didn't we see they were the opposite with the towers burning. we got a much sharper picture of new york toughness. we saw commitment to duty and courage to meet danger at its worse. we saw the guts of the great city. i'm not talking about the movie stars and celebrities that flock to new york after making it i'm talking about the people that make the amazing city what it is. didn't we always know that. remember that scene in casa blanca is talking about hitler's army marching into new york and humphrey bogart saying there are certain sections of new york i wouldn't invite you to invade. i'll take new york values any

day over what you're out there selling. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight. >> are you the boss's boss now? >> the man with the plan to save donald trump with a contested convention speaks. >> i work directly for the boss. >> as colorado slips away. >> we don't expect one delegate. >> trump gets back up in new york. >> you have not heard the last of carl. >> as the former president backtracks. >> i almost want to apologize. >> bernie and hillary sweep the unqualified talk under the rug. >> she's qualified? >> of course. >> a reminder this democratic race is a whole lot nicer. >> i want to see that picture of her. >> all that and donald trump's courageous stand against pan