pain relief that can last into the morning. and now... i'm back. check your sunday paper and save $3 next week. let's play haushl. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. after a big loss in wisconsin this week, hillary clinton went on offense and fired a shot across bernie sanders' bow. he hit back showing he can more than defend himself. the fight kept up thursday when he taped an interview for friday's today show. she denied ever saying sanders was not qualified to be president. friday morning, sanders called a truce, after two days of slamming clinton's qualifications, he took back what he said about clinton himself being unqualified. here's what he said on the

"today" show. >> here is the truth. i've known hillary clinton for 25 years. i respect hillary clinton. we were colleagues in the senate. on her worst day, she will be -- she would be an infinitely better president than either of the republican candidates. >> she is qualified. >> of course. >> hillary didn't want to let it go. she continued the war of wards. >> you may have heard senator sanders say i'm unqualified to be president. well, seriously. seriously, i've been called a lot of things over the years, but unqualified has not been one of them. this morning, he finally acknowledged that of course, he doesn't really believe that. this is all pretty silly. the question in this election should be who can actually get things done. >> well, shortly after that, in a gaggle with the press, clinton too backed down, answering to reporters that yes, sanders was qualified, is qualified.

anyway, tad devine, senior advisor to the sanders campaign, and ed rendell, the two-term governor of pennsylvania who's supporting hillary clinton. governor, hillary clinton, she was a little snagged up there, unable to end the war. it was like the war of 1812 and she's still firing. bernie stopped saying she was unqualified. she said oh, yeah, he said i was no longer unqualified. but i'm going to keep fighting. then something happened and she said okay, we'll call the truce. what's going on? >> in fairness, secretary clinton said yesterday, chris, that bernie sanders was infinitely better than donald trump or ted cruz. she said that yesterday, which is essentially what senator sanders said about her today. both sides should understand that all they're doing by calling each other liars, by saying unqualified or things like that, they're feeding the republican propaganda machine, regardless of who the nominee is. they're forgetting why they got

in this race in the first place. they got in this race to have a progressive supreme court, to end income inequality, to do something about universal health care, to create jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure. those are the things that matter. even more than who is the president going to be. and look, we've done so well for so long compared to the republican campaign, it was a shame what happened here. and the problem with senator sanders taking back that hillary clinton is qualified, saying now, that quote that she is unqualified, those 30 seconds are there. if hillary clinton is the nominee and i believe she will be, that's going to be used by the republicans in the fall. >> tad, why did -- tad devine, explain why he went that far? >> well, because he did that on tuesday night after he won a sweeping victory in wisconsin, the clinton campaign announced publicly through jeff zeleny on cnn that they will have a new strategy, it was called disqualify bernie sanders to defeat him.

all of the surrogates refusing to say whether or not bernie sanders was qualified to be president of the united states. they launched surrogates to tack him on guns and foreign policy. they thought they were going to come into the new york primary and blow him out. even though comes from a small rural state, he is able to play the politics of new york primaries. >> a small rural state? >> that's exactly what donald trump said when he put out the firework of his wife against heidi cruz. he did it first. this is 5-year-old stuff. he did it first, or she did it first is exactly the trump defense. >> chris, they were going to run us over with a truck here in new york. okay, i've been through new york primaries before. i know what it's like. that's what they intended to do. i'm very happy to hear secretary clinton has finally said the words that bernie sanders is qualified to be president. okay, because saying he is better than donald trump, listen, i've got a 28-year-old daughter, she is better than donald trump for president. that wasn't good enough.

she is saying it, he said it, let's talk about the issues. there are big differences on big issues. we should debate them in new york. >> governor, hillary clinton, i have a theory here. excuse me, my theory is pretty blunt. to really upset the hillary campaign, to really turn this election around, he began it this week by winning in wisconsin. if senator sanders knocks out hillary at home, she's back on her back side. this is serious business. losing at home is almost unforgiveable. you lose at home, you've lost. isn't that why this campaign has turned tough, because hillary clinton is worried about bernie sanders beating her in new york? isn't that why she has gotten tough? >> no, i don't think so. let's assume bernie sanders were to win 51% of the vote in new york. he is not going to pick up nearly enough delegates to have a real path to victory. most observers agree, there is no path to victory for bernie sanders. look, i am a super delegate, as a super delegate, i will vote for the person who has the highest combination of popular

vote and secretary clinton has 2.4 million more popular votes than bernie sanders. and the most elected delegates. she has 240 more elected delegates. that's not going to change. it may go down, but it's not going to change. so the super delegates aren't going to change. she's going to women the majority of elected delegates. so look, i think that's all not necessary, and we shouldn't do things that hurt us in the fall. look, if bernie sanders is the nominee, he is going to need the hillary clinton supporters. if hillary clinton is the nominee, she will need the bernie sanders supporters. we should keep that in mind or else we'll blow a golden opportunity that's been handed to us by the republicans. >> let's take a look at what mr. jeff weaver, the canal pain manager for senator sanders, had to say. here is what he said. he is keeping at this. he said clinton has made a deal with the devil. we all know what it means. you've sold your soul to the devil. here is what he is saying now. let's watch.

>> i think if you look at her record, if you look at her campaign, you know, her campaign is funded by millions and millions of dollars from wall street and other special interests. you know, she has made a deal with the devil and we know the devil wants his money in the end. so that's the kind of campaign she is running. she has supported these terrible trade deals, which have devastated american manufacturing in this country, supported the war in iraq, continues to have a hawkish foreign policy which has led to the rise and expansion of isis throughout the middle east. >> he didn't get the truce word, did he, tad? >> that was early, chris. that was early this morning. >> that means he might have well said she is no damn good. what else does he have to say? you said this isn't going to be about person. but you can say it's about issues, but basically he is damning her. >> well, listen. >> he is. >> how you fund your campaign is an issue. jeff is right about that. >> deal with the devil? >> listen, jeff will speak for himself. he is a former marine i am a

former altar boy. >> he's the campaign manager for senator sanders. he's not speaking for himself. >> that's exactly right. >> i think the point jeff made is a valid point. how you fund your campaign. she has numerous super pacs, okay, and in the last quarter, the biggest one raised $15 million from wall street. that's a legitimate issue. she has a super pac that is -- >> we don't -- >> did barack obama make a deal with the devil? >> we're not running against barack obama. >> but did he by the same standards? >> answer that question. answer that question. >> sure, i'll be happy to answer that question. the system of campaign finance in this country is corrupt. fortunately now, bernie sanders can run a campaign by relying on small dollar contributions. i don't think we could have done it, president obama could have done it in 2008. the technology allows you to do it. if he was running today, he would probably not take a dime for super pacs, he would run outside the system, just like bernie sanders is. >> governor. >> well, chris, first of all, i object to someone who is running

for office 17 times, 15-2 record, if i was a baseball pitcher that would get me about $22 million a year. as someone who has run for office 17 times, i have taken money from businesses and interests and then made decisions directly adverse to their welfare because i cared about the welfare of the people of pennsylvania or the people of philadelphia. that's what hillary clinton did. hillary clinton was a strong supporter of dodd-frank. it may not have been everything we wanted it to be, but wall street wanted to defeat dodd-frank. she had taken money as a senator and yet she went ahead and did what was right to support dodd-frank and get it passed. you can take contributions. you don't make deals with the devil. you say to people, you give me money, i'll listen to you. i will not necessarily do what you want. i did that in 36 years as a public official. hillary clinton has done that. barack obama has done that. and as to the trade deals, i assume that joe biden and

secretary kerry also made a deal with the devil on trade, because they supported those same trade deals. >> well, tad, are they all guilty of deals with the devil? everybody supports the trade pack with the far east. you don't by the way take money from super pacs, but you allow them to help you. you're talking to the greatest mayor in the history of philadelphia. what are you making from the point here? that he wasn't -- >> listen -- >> your guy is using a broad brush against every politician around and you're saying technology has changed. where did you come up with that one? that's pretty good. >> chris, first of all, let me say what a great mayor and great governor and great party leader ed rendell was, okay. let me put that on the table. let me also say in 2016 we have a corrupt system of campaign finance that began to become

rotten in 2010 when the united states supreme court and the citizens united decision took all the boundaries off fund-raising and allowed corporations to pour as much money as they want into super pacs. the system is rotten right now. it really is. it's different from the system we had in the past. bernie sanders is determined to end it. not by rhetorically talking about it but by taking action. he has shown us a new way forward. listen, i hope the democratic party adopts what bernie is doing. we can raise a lot of money, as much as the republicans. not by taking special interest money, but by relying on millions of people rising up at the grassroots and funding this campaign. that's what bernie is doing, and i'm very proud of that. >> tad, i mean, i really do, we talk about citizens united here. that's the devil as far as i'm concerned. governor, your last word here. >> i agree. citizens united, it was a disgraceful decision and caused a lot of the problems. but hillary clinton has pledged to pint supreme court justices who will get rid of citizens

united just as bernie sanders would. >> if the democrats don't win the election, we're going to more decisions like citizens united the rest of our lives. that's a reasonable judgment. anyway, thanks so much, tad devine, great debate. you make great points. i love the technology thing of yours. really brilliant. i love the latest in the state-of-the-art game of political argument. thank you, governor. everything we both said is true, about you. coming up, the high takes, do or die right now. bernie has the momentum. he is looking for a win. it could be break out time for sanders if he gets it. plus, what is john kasich up to? he's on the attack against cruz now and making a play for number two in new york and perhaps number two on a possible republican ticket with mr. trump. and the "hardball" roundtable is here with something we don't know about bernie and hillary. the battle for broadway has crossed the bridges into the city itself. finally let me finish with

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we've got new numbers on the grand prize this election year. california, which votes june 7th. let's go to the "hardball" scoreboard. according to field poll out there on the democratic side, hillary clinton is up. she's got a six-point lead over bernie sanders. clinton 47, sanders 41. not much of a lead. on the republican side, trump is ahead. it's close on that too. it could all change in a few weeks. we'll be right back. the nissan rogue with intuitive all-wheel drive.

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the very beginning, this is going to be a tough contest all the way through. and i did it because i remember '08, you know. i went the distance with then senator obama. and that's the way primary develop. welcome back to "hardball." hillary clinton said she'll go the distance in the democratic primary. of course she is but the race has gotten pretty tough in new york where both candidates claim home turf. the latest national average by the way shows hillary clinton with just a four point lead now. just four points across the country, after all the delegates she has won. that will change if she gets a loss in new york. i really think so. if clinton manages to lose the state she represented for eight years of the u.s. senate, the direction of the democratic primary will shift significantly, i believe. we're going to check it with our experts. heidi, i'll let you start first. you start off with one question. it's the wednesday morning after

the new york primary. bernie has squeaked it. he's won new york. the tabs go nuts. the national media, all in new york, goes nuts. she has been beaten at home and by then, the national numbers will close to nothing. i'm talking about the stakes. >> the national numbers. >> everything. >> well, it's a huge psychological shift, right. then he has beat her in wisconsin, in michigan, in new york. huge psychological shift. the delegate math doesn't change all that much, but you know what does change, bernie can then go to the super delegates and say look, especially in the states i carried, you need to come over and support me now. so that then leads to a mathematical, an actual mathematical shift that he can carry into a state like you mentioned, california, although, chris, i did look at the biggest delegate states that follow, like pennsylvania. >> we get there. >> new jersey, she is actually ahead way more than she is in new york. >> he could pick up connecticut.

by the way, the national number, if that comes equal after new york, i look at this as a big, big win for him, and a big loss for her. and i think about the other way, it's not as significant if she beats him. it is certainly significant if he wins. >> well, here is the thing. she always starts out way ahead in these states. until you get to the states, and it's primary time. the problem that she has is that bernie sanders appears, and in fact, has all the momentum. he has won seven out of the -- >> look at the crowds, look at the kids. >> he has the kids, he has the enthusiasm, he has the energy, he has the crowd source money, as tad devine was dag. >> what is the crowd source. >> the small donations. >> small donations, amplified by the internet and social media. that's where bernie is strong. it's not just -- >> he is pulling out $400,000 a day or something. >> it's not just that he has young voters. he has the young technology. he has the way to amplify the power of small donations.

that is a new paradiiradigm in only fund-raising but campaigning. >> if he wins new york, everybody hasn't maxed up, now is your chance to double down. >> as you were saying, new york is the media capital not only of the united states, but in many ways the world. you can't overstate the megaphone effect of new york. so it's a local contest in a global place. if hillary loses there, and by the way, i'm not sure she will. she still has most of the jewish voters in new york. she is going to have the loyalty of most, especially the older african-americans, a lot of hispanic support, but between that style of interest group by interest group politics. >> that's new york. >> and, though, the generational wave politics of sanders. the thing is that brooklyn is not the brooklyn that we knew, chris. >> that's the question we skipped over. it's also a closed primary, right. so how has bernie ridden to success in a lot of these states, it has been on the

independent voters. the other alternative, it is just a squeaker, very close. even in that case, it will be a bit of a psychological blow to her going into a general election. she'll be seen, perceived as a weaker candidate than if she had carried the state by a much bigger margin. >> you're great. talk about the new brooklyn. it's not the old jewish and catholic, not the old clubs. >> do you want the bagel. it's not food by food. it's not the old ethnic groups. it's now hipsters, younger people, knowledge workers, young people, 35 and under, who for whom college education has in some cases been a boon, but not entirely. bernie talking about free college education, the knowledge workers rights, health care, et cetera, et cetera, is powerful. >> let's talk about the other side, you start heidi. if bernie doesn't make it, we call them first names in the democratic party. it doesn't seem to bother anybody.

bernie against hillary. suppose he loses new york. i think it shatters him. i don't see how if you lose new york and then you go into pennsylvania and all those other states, maryland and the rest of them, i think it's hard for him to say i'm going to beat hillary, i'm going to beat her. >> that's why her campaign rightfully says this is a must win. because -- >> his campaign too. >> because then you lose the critical component i was talking about at the top, making any kind of case to the super delegates. that's why you see bernie's people focusing on them now. unless they have epic sweeps, he can't just win new york, he has to sweep it. >> i think if he wins, it's the headlines. >> it's the math, chris. >> saturday night live, the newspapers, the next day on all the major networks, bernie, bernie, bernie. >> yeah, here is the thing. he wins if you and chuck todd and company don't call it by 11:00, okay. bernie wins. >> how? explain. >> because that means it's a virtual tie and it means he will

have fought a two term incumbent senator from new york to a standstill. >> but you've got to beat the champ, do you remember that rule. >> yeah, i do. >> reminding people of clinton's vulnerabilities, senator sanders says on "morning joe" he hasn't run a campaign based on attacks. well, his campaign manager did but here's the senator. >> how often have i talked about hillary clinton's e-mails? have you heard me? not a word. how often have i talked about the clinton foundation's fundraising. have you heard me say one word about it during the campaign. to say i am running vitriolic campaign -- >> up -- why haven't you? >> explain how that was done. >> that was bernie channelling richard nixon. he would say well, i could discuss that, it would be wrong. >> some people say the supreme court is loaded with communists. >> isn't that what trump does all the time?

>> he hit all the zones, every one. he lit all the bad problems about hillary clinton and said but i wouldn't -- when i have talked about that? >> the first time he did it in the debate, i'm sick about hearing about your e-mails. >> when i have, just a second ago. >> everybody applauded him the first time he did it, but if you continue doing it, there is an obvious different reason. >> he's a kid that's been grabbed by the collar and said why did you say that unqualified on tv? take it back. >> both of them have said in the last 24 hours the same thing you say. when you're not really confident of your message to the people. they're both saying the other guy i'm running against, or woman in this case, she is still better than cruz or trump. and is that all they can say, because they both said that about each other, you know. is that the best you could do? tad devine said, if all you could say about a democrat is that they're better than trump or cruz, you're really not making a case. >> well, it shows under the surface, there is actually a lot of irritation, not just by hillary, but by bernie. it goes back to his shouting remark when she screamed sexism and it's been building ever

since then. the question is, how much time are they going to have for him to decide that he is not - he is going to say nicer things about her and things that are so nice that you're not only going to have the minorities and women come over but also the young people who are actually really -- >> you're on the spot. you're the first woman on the show. you're number three or four, okay. so tonight, you have to -- was there some sexism in bernie sanders' attack on her lack of qualifications? no one would say that about the former secretary of state if they were male, if they were been the united states senator, because those are qualifications. >> okay, ready to get flamed on twitter here, but i don't think so. i think he was just generally ticked off that she wouldn't answer the question, whether he was qualified, and he said oh, you're going to do that i'm going to call you unqualified. i don't know if would have been any different if it from a male. >> i think it was more schoolyard brooklyn than it was sexist. some people are interpreting it that way. >> bernie, i think many months ago on the show, somebody asked

me about it, bernie sanders is not a nice guy, and -- >> bernie sanders is -- >> he is crabby. >> he is crabby. >> i like the way you did that. would anybody say about a male secretary of state that they were unqualified? by definition, that job makes you qualified. >> if his opponent went around saying that, i might. >> i like your courage. >> thank you, howard fineman, and heidi presba. if you want to get ahold of her, usa today. i love courage. sometimes it's great. bernie/hillary fight. more with the roundtable. up next, john kasich going up to ted cruz ahead of the primary. could a second place finish propel kasich to a strong number two ahead of the contested convention? could he position himself with a lot of delegates to demand the vp job if he wants it or be asked for it by trump? i notice trump doesn't hit kasich. i fight that fascinating. this is "hardball." the place for politics.

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my goal is to win as many delegates as i can heading into the convention. and it's important for me to continue to raise money, to build political team. and i'm -- i've been playing from behind the whole time. the reason why i've been playing from behind for the whole time is because i didn't in the beginning, and i'm not now, going to take the low road to the highest office in the land. >> that was governor john kasich on the campaign trail this week, after scoring zero delegates, he is continuing to fight hoping for a better reception in new york and connecticut. his campaign is out with a pair of new ads, exclusively taking aim at ted cruz. here is one. >> in iowa, ted cruz sneered at our new york values. >> i think most people know what new york values are.

they're not iowa values and not new hampshire values. everyone knows what new york values are. >> ted cruz divides to get a vote. john kasich unites to get things done. >> another ad, the campaign cast doubt on cruz's ability to get enough delegates for the nomination, asserts kasich has a better chance of taking down hillary clinton in november. >> you have only one choice. one choice that will stop the clinton political machine. john kasich. don't be fooled. ted cruz can't win the nomination outright. he can't defeat hillary clinton, either. >> well, kasich is the one candidate donald trump hasn't lashed out at much, at least. what is the ohio governor's game plan. is he looking to land on the ticket with trump. who knows. i'm thinking, though. joining me at the round table, john stanton, left of me, washington bureau chief, sabrina sediqi and jonathan capehart.

it's interesting, because first of all, sneering is a great word. cruz sneers. it's a great word for him. he is getting personal and exploiting out of a stupid line like new york values means he is going for number two, which pushing the so-called cruz out of the game. your thoughts. >> if you're john kasich, you don't believe the establishment actually intends to rally behind ted cruz in the long term. they're doing it now to deprive donald trump on the first ballot. that's when he believes he is the one they're going to turn to. he has the polling to show is the only one that can beat hillary clinton. >> it's consistent, by the way. >> he's not swept in like a paul ryan and, quote unquote, stole the nomination. he ran the campaign and outlasted everyone, whether it was jeb bush or marco rubio. >> where do you see so little contention between trump, the front-runner, the usual target and the guy who is tagging last, lagging last? they don't trash each other.

>> no, they don't. because donald trump only attacks two people. the super, super weak and a threat. and i bet you any day now, donald trump will turn his sights on john kasich if looks like he is -- >> unless he wants him on the ticket. >> chris, i don't believe -- >> why? what is the one state of republican candidate must win historically, has to win, ohio. >> it's ohio. but that requires john kasich to have a soul conversion to go on the ticket of a man he -- >> the road is very busy these days. >> chris christie is a prime example. i don't think john kasich is as much of an opportunist. >> john kasich has a make a play to make a name for himself and not be the third little we weakling, it's here in new york. that ad, talking about new york values, that's his shot that's his shot. >> for number two. >> yes, for number two. >> what is he up to, john? >> i think what jonathan said is

right. to me, the whole question is i don't understand why he thinks they're going to turn to him eventually. the person that the establishment is going to turn to is going to have to get enough of these anti-establishment voters to come along. john kasich is nothing but an establishment figure. he has been in washington forever, he's governor, like he is super establishment. the notion that he'll be able to pick up any of the trump or cruz voters. >> i always like to watch peter king. he's a neighborhood guy. here he is. ready. kasich isn't the only person, with tough talk about cruz, here is republican congressman from new york, peter king, taking a shot at the texas senator. >> any new yorker even thinks of voting for ted cruz, needs to have their head examined. to have some guy like ted cruz in cowboy boots walking around criticizing us, i hope he gets the cold shoulder and other

things from every new yorker. send him back where he belongs. >> >> that sounds like ed koch, the mayor of new york, any jewish person votes for jesse jackson, they have a hole in their head. that sounds so new york. >> peter king hates ted cruz. he was one of the most vocal ecritics of cruz during the government shutdown in 2013. this serves as a reminder to understate where the republican party is when ted cruz -- >> why does he hate ted cruz. >> because ted cruz still represents the person who was willing to torpedo his own party to pursue his own agendas, it's hard to -- he also torpedoed -- go ahead. >> what did he torpedo. >> he tried to block hurricane sandy funding. oh, he has made this line about new york values is something he said throughout his career, especially once he got into the senator and really used that a thought against people. >> what does he mean when he talks to the country folk? what is he saying. >> basically city people. >> it's actually elitist.

>> liberals. >> what does it mean? >> also urban -- >> pro gun control, supportive of same-sex marriage. >> yeah. >> not religious. >> blah, blah, blah. >> you don't listen to country music in your pickup truck. >> that line as an exile of new yorker here in washington, that line about cowboy boots is a real sting. new yorkers, you see anybody walking down the street in cowboy boots, you do this. come on. come on, dude. >> good night, cowboy. >> i don't know it goes that far, chris. but cowboy boots, really, in the middle of new york city? come on, man. >> they don't like that? >> no, we don't. >> why not? >> we don't have enough time for that. >> you gave me these looks. i can't interpret them. >> that's country values, right. like people in new york look at people like oh, you're -- >> so we're going to come back here in a minute.

i want to try to figure out this guy's facial intonations. it's the democratic battle for broadway right now ahead of the crucial new york primary. it will all happen. this is the blow out. but i can't think of anything as good as this fight for new york. this is great stuff. it will reverberate around the world. they're going to hear in hong kong who's ahead in this fight. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. mplex. limiting where you can earn bonus cash back... then those places change every few months... please. it's time you got the quicksilver card from capital one. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. doesn'get much simpler than that. what's in your wallet? try align for a non-stop,ive sweet-treat-goodness

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i'm richard lui with the top stories. bernie sanders the projected winner of the wyoming democratic caucus tonight. the win extending the sanders' winning streak. he has now won eight of the last nine contests. both sanders and hillary clinton are campaigning in new york city today ahead of the april 19th

primary in this state. nbc news learning that donald trump gave a $100,000 donation to the 9/11 museum in downtown manhattan today during a brief visit there. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the roundtable still with us. john, sabrina and jonathan. let's go back to the big story of the night, the battle for broadway between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, which wiz beal a hot o this weekend again. john, i think this battle is one of those ones that truly is do or die. i mean, bernie overtake hillary has to start in new york. you blow it apart and break out. all things can happen. if he runs short by a point or two, hillary wins new york, she's covered herself, she's going to be the nominee. >> right. she can't lose new york. she absolutely cannot lose new york. she is still ahead in the polls. again, the longer bernie sanders is on the ground, the better he

does. his economic message will play well downstate. it probably will play extremely well upstate, which isn't as -- >> explain. >> because downstate means the five boroughs of new york city, westchester and long island, and then upstate is everything else. if you look at a map of the state of new york, downstate is blue, upstate is red with pockets of blue in places. so bernie sanders can get around the state and get his message out. he has 11 more days to do that. he could do very well in the state. but here is the problem, and it started on monday, when the "daily news" editorial board interview came out. we break into our programming to take you straight to bernie sanders in long island city just making remarks after being declared the apparent winner, projected winner in wyoming. 14 delegates at stake there. let's listen in to bernie

sanders now in new york. >> to be standing there at the signing of a piece of legislation providing $15 an hour. anybody else? all right. thank you all very much. >> all right. bernie sanders just finishing some remarks. we caught the tail ending of that there in long island city. you can see he now walking away in new york. this after the wyoming win that was just called within the last couple of hours. we'll continue to watch what's happening on the trail, of course, and bring you straight to it live when it does happen. for now back to our regular taped programming. >> you worked there. >> i can tell you that the choice between bernie sanders and hillary clinton, it's clear. it's hillary clinton. but bernie sanders didn't do himself any favors by not being able to handle the interview. >> going into this whole process of like this long sort of run-up to that vote where he could have set his own agenda, could have set his own narrative.

>> i read that a number of times and couldn't follow the conversation. one side they're talking about the fed, he's talking about the treasury department. the guys on the ed board should have said name the provision in dodd-frank you will use to take apart of the big banks. you can go on google to do it. why didn't they do that to him, have a reasonable conversation? they're talking past each other. >> there's an idea that he doesn't have a realistic plan to actually do -- >> why didn't they say what provision in the bill, name it. >> but the onus is not on them to get the question right, the onus is on him to set the agenda. you've been running on this, bernie sanders, for a year and a half, two years. and you cannot put the "new york daily news" editorial board in its place by point -- >> it was a bad day for bernie. >> it was a bad week. he didn't do himself any favors with the statement hillary clinton isn't qualified to be president, which he so clearly

reversed his opinion recognizing the backlash and said yes, she is qualified. >> there's a pretty broad definition of what qualified means. in other words, i disagree on the issues. >> somebody disagrees with and he opened up himself to attacks that the statement was sexist. he opened himself up to charges that he's feeding into republican talking points. that's their central argument against hillary clinton, that she's unqualified. they're saying it other things like benghazi and e-mails and now cut that statement from bernie and put it in attack ads that have nothing to do with the point he's trying to make. >> does he know that? >> sorry? >> does he know they'll use that in the feel? >> i don't think he was strategic. he was generally irked because i think he does believe there's a concerted effort to try and get rid of him and put him away and he of course is tying that to clinton and her allies. >> do you think ideologues generally feel the ends justify the means? when you have a strong

philosophy, you know, this may be a little tough, a little unfair in the short run, but i've got a cause to lead. >> that's the basic definition of an ideologue, is they believe it so they'll do whatever they have to do to get there. >> but in politics 101 running in the same primary not to explicitly say something you won't bow able to walk back. to come back and endorse hillary clinton and he essentially said by saying she's not qualified that they're unfit to be president. >> here's the thing about bernie that really strikes me. i'm used to politics. i'll talk like bernie now, politics. i think he really is, i don't want to use the word negatively, but he is an ideologue. when he talks about the shame of this country for not having a right to health care for life, he really sees it as a shame. we'll get there, we're working toward it. no, he says that it's a moral shame that we don't have health care as a right. and i believe it when he says it. that's not campaigning. that's deep belief. now maybe that's something that social democrats and other

countries believe it's a right. it's a red right. it's not freedom from the government, it's something you demand of society. i think we're dealing with somebody who has true beliefs here. >> here's the thing. no one -- you will find no one who will say that bernie sanders does not believe 100% -- 100% in what he's saying. no one will say that. the argument is how then do you get to this universal health care? how then do you break up the banks -- >> beating hillary clinton. >> here's the problem. you know, chris, the problem that he had again with the "new york daily news" editorial board is that wall street is in new york. wall street is a big part of the tax base. wall street is a big part of the job base. if you're going to break up the banks, they want to know what happens to these people? he had no answer. >> do they still do advertising in big tabloids, banks? >> yeah. >> anyway, the roundtable is staying with us. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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checks, that they will have a third party private company do, but they won't tell us anything in terms of whether or not that will include people, a little bit of rested covering protests in the last few years, if you did something in college. they won't give us any of the criteria. >> what are they screening out? >> well, that's unclear. they won't tell us who they're trying to screen out. and it's an unprecedented exertion of control by the secret service over the press. and raises some very, very troubling first amendment issues and has got a lot of folks here in washington, in sort of the media world very, very concerned. >> so whatever happened to that guy who put the guy in a choke hold? >> nothing has happened to him, as far as we know. and we've had one or two incidents where secret service agents have gotten intoes confrontations with reporters. they're working for trump to keep reporters in their press pen, which is not part of the -- >> did you notice that the other day out on long island, how far the press was from the action? it was amazing. the protesters, i should say, way back from the action. >> yeah. >> anyway, sabrina? >> so, the district conventions are underway and ted cruz is by

far outmaneuvering donald trump in the shadow race for convention delegates. my colleague, ben jacobs is out in colorado where that convention is underway. and donald trump is so unorganized that his campaign had the wrong names on the delegate slate cards. they also, in iowa, where the convention process is about to get underway didn't even explain to their workers how the selection process works. and ted cruz is so argueized, they have targeting and modeling so they could identify appropriate delegates for ted cruz. >> doesn't move me. >> i know, i know. it's just about cruz. >> this isn't going to move you. after bernie sanders bombed at the "new york daily news" editorial board, i asked my former colleagues, you know, have you invited -- have you vitd hillary clinton. they told me, yes, they had invited her, but they hadn't heard back from her, whether she was coming in. i can confirm from hillary clinton's campaign that she will, indeed go to the daily news editorial board, before the primary, and wait for that transcript to come out, because

it will be night and day. >> she'll be ready. she is good at this. she has her brief. anyway, john stanton, sabrina siddiqui, and jonathan capehart, formerly of the "new york daily news." when we return, let me finish with new york values. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. (laughing) there's nothing like making their day. except making sure their tomorrow is taken care of too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can. while you're mastering life. don't let dust and allergies get and life's beautiful moments. with flonase allergy relief, they wont. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms. most allergy pills only control one substance. flonase controls six. and six is greater than one. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill.

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country's heartland, about the moral infirmity of the country's greatest city. i thought 9/11 ended all of that. i though the new york firefighters racing up the trade towers ended all of that and that the people who grow up in cities like the right stuff, the inner strength to defend this country. didn't we all see that they were the very opposite, with those towers burning and those firefighters from staten island and brooklyn heading up the stairs? we've got a much sharper picture of new york toughness. we saw what the people of goth that many were made of, committal to duty, and courage to meet danger at its worst. we saw the guts of that great city. i'm not talking about the movie stars and celebrity who is flocked into new york after making it. i'm talking about the people of the boroughs who make this amazing city what it is. and didn't we always know that? remember that scene in casa blanca when that nazi major is talking about hitler's army marching into new york and humphrey bogart's character is standing up to him saying, there are certain sections of new york i wouldn't advise you, major,

trying to invade. that's the new york values, and yes, senator cruz, new york value. that's "hardball" for now. join us at 7:00 p.m. monday for morhardball and have a great night. happy friday. there's lots going on tonight. we have a great show planned for tonight. i'm excited about tonight's show. we're looking ahead to the wyoming caucuses tomorrow on the democratic side of the presidential races. bernie sanders has turned out to be really, really good at caulks. heading into wyoming tomorrow, there have been 12 caucuses overall so far on the democratic side. of the 12, hillary clinton won the first two in iowa and nevada, but since then, bernie sanders has won ten straight caucuses. so, senator sanders, for obvious reasons, is also favored to win in the caucuses tomorrow in wyoming. but we'll be keeping an eye on that. we've also got footage tonight from space-x, as they