know you'll have much more on this tonight on night lly news with lester holt. you can find that on your local nbc station. thanks so much. that's going to do it for this hour. our thanks to brooklyn roasting company for having us here. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. chris matthews hosting and he's got brand-new nbc polling numbers out of new york. stay with us. if it's monday, it's our brand-new poll of new york. can donald trump crack that 50% line? is bernie sanders chipping away at hillary clinton in her home state? let's find out. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chris matthews, obviously in for chuck todd here in washington. i'll be back at 7:00 p.m. eastern. welcome to "mtp daily." with just eight days until new

york heads to the polls, we're watching one lelel of a fight break out on the republican side of things in new york. it's an all-out war over delegates. trump is slamming the republican party's nominating process as corrupt. his campaign's accusing cruz of employing -- catch this favorite word -- gestapo tactics to intimidate delegates. and cruz doesn't like it. in just a minute, we'll dive into that battle royal. but we begin tonight with the breaking news we've got. we've got new numbers from our exclusive nbc news "wall street journal" marist poll out right now on the state of the race in new york state, where hundreds of delegates are at stake next tuesday. on the republican side, catch this, trump leads big. it's trump, 54 percent. kasich, down at 21%. cruz further down at 18. remember, if trump wins more than 50% statewide, he will win all the states, 14 at-large delegates, in addition to likely cleaning up across the state at the local level. 64% of new york republicans, by the way, say that the republican party should nominate trump as long as he has the most

delegates. even if he doesn't have the requisite 1,237 to get the nomination on the first ballot. and there isn't much love for the convention savior, either. come look at this. 59% of new yorkers say that if the republican party nominates someone other than trump, it should nominate someone who has actually been running. only 32% say it's acceptable to nominate someone who hasn't been running, an outsider. and in the democratic race, hillary clinton holds a commanding lead as well. it's clinton, look at this, 55%. bernie sanders, 41. a 14-point gap. but does clinton have a party unity problem brewing in new york? nearly a third of sanders' supporters say they will not support clinton if she wins the nomination. for comparison, only 16% of clinton supporters say they wouldn't support sanders as the nominee. figure that one out. let's dive into those numbers. i'm joined by lee maringoff, the director of the marist company for public opinion. glad to have you on. does the number that trump have

right now, well above 50 fact, suggest that if nothing changes between now and next tuesday in new york, eight days from now, he will have swept the whole thing, the whole shebang? >> yeah, that's the magic number. over 50, and you know, right now, that's where he is. and the campaigns of kasich and cruz will have to figure out a way to pull him down. trump doesn't close well, but right now, he's where he needs to be to erase some of the deficits that have happened in recent states where cruz has done well. we don't have the white evangelical population in new york. the number of very conservatives, the number of tea party supporters. new york's a different ball game in terms of the republican electorate. and trump is benefiting from that. and he's doing very well here in new york. >> is trump more in tune with the usual historic republican party? i'm not saying jake javits, but rockefeller, a little bit to the right of rockefeller? is he sort of in the sweet spot of new york republicans, rather cruz, who's sort of a country boy? >> yeah, well, i'm not sure how

overwhelmingly supportive trump is in terms of differing elements. he's doing very well. he has double-digit lead in most of these critical categories. he's got "the new yorker" thing going. we can talk a little bit more about that, when we talk about the democrats, as well. but, look, cruz is not a very acceptable candidate here for new york, because that's not who we got. and kasich is the second choice. might pick up a little bit, as voters who don't like trump start to think of, well, who's the stop-trump guy in new york. right now, it's neither of them, because kasich and cruz are splitting the remaining vote that trump doesn't get. trump's positioned just where he needs to be here in new york. >> i'm just thinking, lee, if trump had had a decent couple of weeks coming into this instead of a bad week, he's lost like ten contests in a row to cruz out there, and he had the whole thing about what he said with me and everybody else, and what he said with the comparison of the two wives' looks and all that stuff, with lewandowski, all that stuff is bad news.

was he running like 75% before this poll was taken? >> i don't know about that. >> i just wonder, nothing seems -- he's bulletproof, it looks. >> but don't confuse the numbers he's getting for a republican primary with what is a very blue state. >> i see. because bernie sanders and hillary clinton clean his clock and all the republicans, as far as the electoral votes in new york is concerned. this is a battle. does trump get back on the pathway to getting the nomination uncontested? and this would be a step in that direction for him. but by no means finishes that argument. we'll still have other states with lots of delegates to be selected. it just gets him back on course. >> that's a sharp assessment. last question. hillary clinton, is bernie gaining on her or not? can you tell? in new york. >> well, it's obviously closer than it was months ago, but she has a very comfortable lead, and it's no accident that hillary clinton is talking about the

time she was a senator. we did polls way back when she was a senator in '08, her approval rating in new york was at 62%. so she's going around the state reminding people. remember me? you liked me then pip need you now. but the difference in new york is whether you're 45 years of age or older. age trumps everything heres in terms of, if you're over 45, hillary clinton has a 23-point lead. if you're under 45, sanders has a 25-point lead. the benefit for clinton is that more people are over 45. and that's why she's running up the score right now in new york. and this gets her back on the path, you know, sanders' argument is he's going to chip away the delegates and make it among the pledged delegates. well, you don't do it in new york if you don't win the primary. as yogi berra would say, it's getting later earlier here in new york. >> i would think, free tuition, that's a hell of a deal, if i were a kid. thank you, lee.

donald trump's going to need a big lead in new york. when it came to delegate selection, there's no sugar coating his situation right now. his campaign has again had a terrible weekend. they were skunked. that means lost everything in colorado's delegate conventions this weekend, thanks in part to pour trump campaign organization. and a slew of unforced errors. they were out-maneuvered in a bunch of other states, including iowa, indiana, south carolina, and virginia. and in many instances, trump's delegate slots were pilled by rival republican officials who say they hold no allegiance to trump, even though they're elected in his name, apparently. well, if trump doesn't win the nomination on the first ballot at this summer's convention in cleveland, those folks will vote for someone else. trump responded by slamming his party's delegate process as a fraud. here he is. >> we've got a corrupt system. it's not right. we're supposed to be a democr y

democracy. we're supposed to be, you vote, and the vote means something. i want to tell you, it's a corrupt deal going on in this country and it's not good. it's not good. >> trump's new head of delegate selection, that's paul manafort, is accusing the cruz campaign of foul play when it comes to this delegate strategy of theirs. this is tough language. ready for this? here's manafort with chuck todd yesterday on "meet the press." >> what is fair game to win a delegate? is threatening fair game? >> it's not my style, it's not donald trump's style. but it is ted cruz's style. and that's going to win thin very fast. >> you think he's threatening delegates? >> well, he's threatening -- you go to these county conventions and see the gestapo tactics -- >> that's a strong word? >> well, we'll be filing several protests because the reality is they're not playing by the rule. >> anyway, cruz says his campaign's playing by the rules. he says their gains are thanks

to a superior organization. here's senator cruz late today going after trump's reaction to losing all those delegates out in colorado. >> now, in response, donald has been yelling and screaming. a lot of whining. heim sure some cursing. and some late-night fevered tweeting. all the characteristics i would note, we would want of a commander in chief. >> well, despite donald trump's complaints about the rules of the republican party, the delegate system actually appears to benefit him instantly. according to an nbc analysis, trump has won 45% of the delegates, despite winning just 37% of the primary vote itself. so he's gained in delegate selection. that's a much bigger bump than cruz has got, who has won 32% of the delegates, with just 28% of the actual vote. i'm joined by nbc's hallie jackson, who's been covering

cruz on the trail. also msnbc's chief legal correspondent, ari melber. i have to go to ari first, to teach some things to me. explain to me these delegates who get elected. they get selected somehow, and they're not really loyal to the person they say they should be loyal to. explain how this disloyalty works? you don't have to really be with the candidate? >> the disloyalty comes from the fact that this is all a mishmash of 50 states sets of rules and most of the rules do not require you to have an allegiance beyond the first ballot, nor you to be picked by the campaign. so in most cases, you basically have local party activists. they like who they like, and once they're unbound, if there is a second vote, which there usually isn't, then they can do what they want. two other points, chris, you show trump complaining. this is similar to sports. if you're complaining about the refugee, you're probably not playing that well on the field. and the other important part you played that dynamite, you know, big sound of paul manafort telling our own chuck todd these are gestapo tactics.

the other important thing he said in this exchange is "we are going to be filing protests." what he's previewing there, potentially, chris, is another route to dealing with this ongoing, increasingly hot exchange, where they might actually try to prevent these delegates from being seated if they don't think they're pro-trump, or if they think there was chicanery in how they were selected. you can go back to the '52 election where taft came in with a lead, but the eisenhower folks did file successful contests kicking out delegates. and that ultimately led to eisenhower coming from behind and winning that nomination. >> that's because they had a convention-wide vote on fairness and they were able to kick those out. >> they had the fair play amount. >> let me go to howie on this and the culture of donald trump. i get the feeling we're ready for a brooklyn dodgers' we was robbed claim at the convention. it seems like everything's aiming towards, we was robbed. he walked out the door with a thousand delegates, brings the house down, doesn't run third party, because down in history is a guy who was robbed, but the

republican party screwed him. i'm not sure that isn't bad for donald trump after all the mitchigoss for this campaign. >> this is not the first time we've heard donald trump railing against the system and calling it corrupt. what is different now are these delegate wins and these delegate successes from the ted cruz campaign. that's the backdrop against which all of this is playing out. so for trump, this fight against the system is picking up a new urgency, because of what the cruz campaign has been able to do. you talk about the cruz campaign's response, to sum it up for them, it's sour grapes. they say trump's throwing a tantrum because he's not doing as well as ted cruz when it comes to delegate strategy. but even as donald trump rails against the system, he has hired a guy in paul manafort to help him play that system, to help him work within the delegate game and to try to pick up wins to be able to prepare for a contested convention. the other point i would note, just as ari's talking about in

sports, if you're whining about the ref, then you're not playing the game. for ted cruz, there is a risk that if he's talking about process so much and talking about delegates and strategy, that detracts from his ability to get the message out that he wants to get out, which right now is economic security and jobs, which you hear him talking about in california. >> well, sometimes there are bad calls. i just want to go back to something -- help me out here, ari. real simple question. if you go to the voting booth as a primary voter in new york or anywhere else, and you vote for trump, you vote for his delegates, they can betray that? are you telling me they can ignore that order, or just can ignore it after the first ballot? >> i'm telling you, in the vast majority of states, the delegates that are allocated by the state are bound by the first ballot. so to your question, they cannot ignore it on the first ballot. there are exceptions, like colorado, which trump was complaining doesn't even hold one of those primary votes. but everyone knew that going in. those rules were known. but, yes, chris, in most cases, what you have is basically state rules that for the most part bind on the first ballot and

sometimes the second, but, again, delegates are people, and the whole reason we have this, as you know, as a student of political history is, we took a system that was parliamentary in nation, where the party elites picked the nominee. and after '68 and the mcgovern reforms, we have so-called democratized it. >> let me go back to hallie to finish up here. i think people think it's a democratic system. and i think trump has a case here. because the people think that the guy or the woman who gets the most votes should win. >> right. is that it's one vote, you know, one piece of support. but ari is making an excellent point. you probably saw us nodding here. you talk to republican operatives or strategists that are embedded in this, and they will point out, this is just like when you elect somebody to a member of congress. you are voting to have somebody represent your interests in washington. but the argument goes -- >> it's the republican form of government. but let me tell you something,

guys. the last time anybody tried arguing this case was back when men wear three-piece suits. thought they had vests on. there were no women around. they smoked cigars in back rooms, they were all protestants. they ran the show the old way, pretty much. they were all white, obviously. the country is so far removed from that stuffy, world of elite that decides stuff in back rooms, literally in hotel rooms. you think the public -- you can't say that, because you're a straight reporter. but ari, you can -- do you think the american public will buy the fact that all your votes don't mean nothing? >> i think you're -- but tkis. nothing! >> chris, i think you're putting your finger on the point. if this is seen as illegitimate and as overturning the clear will of the voters, that's a big problem. but we have a tradition of state runoffs. ted cruz, who hallie goes around and covers, trailed and lost his runoff. he came in second running for

the senate runoff in texas when no one had a majority. and in many states, then off runoff of the top two, and that means by definition the guy that started as number two can come in number one. >> but the whole purpose of that stuff in the south was to keep blacks from gett eting elected. that wasn't for a democratic purpose, but for trying to keep the blocks out of history. >> i know we're out of time. the question is, does trump have a big enough vote to your argument to the legitimacy of the republican program here, that they want to steal it? if it's close, though, if it's close, cruise that the argument this this is like a runoff. >> i guess it's who you like. thank you, hallie jackson, as always. and ari melber. coming up, hillary clinton takes on both bernie sanders and donald trump as she campaigns on her home turf, playing defense in new york. the latest oen the democratic primary fight up in the empire state. and paul ryan says he's not

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well, our brand-new poll shows hillary clinton's leading bernie sanders by 14 big points up in new york state. and the reason may come down to location, location, location. take a look at this list of the ten most populist counties in new york state and the ten most diverse counties. these numbers come from the u.s. census, by the way. here's what that looks like on today's map. eight of those counties overlap, meaning the most populous counties in new york, the ones where you can expect the most voters are also the most diverse. and the sanders' struggles for non-white voters, that goes on in the 21 states where we've seen exit polling in this election cycle, sanders has only one 50%, half, of non-white voters areas. so while there are many more rural, less wealthy voters, the places with more voters aren't lacking good for him.

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at ford. welcome back to "mtp daily." i'm chris matthews in for chuck todd. i'll be back for "hardball" at 7:00 eastern. anyway, today hillary clinton put out a new ad aimed at donald trump. catch this baby. >> he says we should punish women who have abortions. >> there has to be some form of punishment. >> that mexicans who come to america are rapists. >> they're rapists. >> and that we should ban muslims from coming here at all. >> total and complete shutdown. >> with so much at stake, she's the one tough enough to stop trump. >> wow. and speaking in queens new york today, one of the boroughs, clinton continued to knock bernie sanders. >> i have noticed that under the bright spotlight and scrutiny here in new york, senator sanders has had trouble answering questions. he's had trouble answering questions about his core issue, namely dealing with the banks. he's had trouble answering

foreign policy questions. and, so i look forward to a debate that is in new york with people asking the kind of questions that new yorkers ask. >> well, meanwhile, sanders is hitting clinton's record on fracking, which new york governor andrew cuomo has banned statewide. he did it in 2014. and nbc's kristen welker joins me right now from hall brook, new york. i thought bernie would come on strong against hillary, but these are double-digit deficits. and all three polls as of tonight, the nbc journal maris poll, he's not doing well in new york. >> you're right, chris. i've been talking to his campaign officials who acknowledge the really steep odds they're facing. secretary clinton has a commanding lead here, that 14-point lead you just reported on, chris, and we are seeing her keep her eye on the general election, as you pointed out, taking a number of swipes at donald trump, but also keeping her focus on bernie sanders, because if she can put him away here, chris, she can almost all

but put this race away. now, the reason why you're seeing this two-pronged approach, as well, she's trying to argue to democratic primary voters that she would be the strongest candidate in a general election. adding to senator sanders' really steep odds, in addition to everything you just laid out, this is a closed primary. that means that dmindependents can't vote in this primary, and sanders typically does well in states where independents can vote. and for reference, chris, he's lost three of the states that have been closed primaries. really steep odds for him there. >> kristen, we'll be back to you later. independents have played a large part in bernie sanders' success so far. and so kristen has just said, new york will be the first in a series of upcoming primaries that are closed, meaning it's just democrats. only registered democrats will be able to participate. and that could cause some major problems for the sanders' camp. kasie hunt joins us right now. is this going to hurt your guy, the guy you're covering? >> reporter: hey, chris. i think it's entirely possible,

yeah. and it's about both the system here, but also about how this campaign in many ways grew beyond wherever they expected it to be in the first place. these original deadlines for some of the deadlines in new york were as early as last october, but bernie sanders really had contain off, you know, had performed the way he did in iowa and then won new hampshire. i asked around at the rally today about whether or not some of the people who showed up at bernie sanders' event weren't even going to be able to vote for him. are you guys registered to vote in the democratic primary, do you know? >> yeah. >> you are registered as a democratic? >> yeah. >> are you registered to vote in the democratic primary? >> i am. >> are you registered to vote in the democratic primary? >> knno, i wasn't allowed. i'm an independent. new york, closed primary, by the time bernie announced, he wasn't allowed to announce as a democrat. >> do you think the campaign should have done more to let you know that you needed to change your registration? >> it was too little -- i couldn't register. it was too little by the time

bernie announced. there was nothing i could do about it. >> reporter: right. >> so i gave him money instead. but i'm not allowed to vote. >> reporter: a nice trade, i suppose. but, look, a lot of these people that i talked to said that even if they had changed their registration in time to make sure they could vote, it wasn't the campaign they heard from. it was a friend, someone else. that's emblematic of bernie sanders' campaign, generally. but overall that lack of organization could really come back to bite them. >> thank you so much, kasie hunt, covering the bernie campaign. let's bring in o'keefe and alex seitz-wald. help us here. who are these independents? if they're on the left politically, why wouldn't they be democrats? what is the option for someone on the political left like sanders? >> there's a lot of people who don't want to affiliate themselves with the party, but like to be seen as independents, though historically, they tend to vote one way. >> but you don't get to vote in

the democratic primary, which is always a center-left fight. >> a lot of people don't know this. >> that guy is 75 years old! that was just there? >> we back on october 9th. >> new york has some of the most restricting voting and election laws in the country, and you've got other liberal parties in the state, working families party, liberal party, green party. he could be voting with them. >> that makes sense. i would think -- kate, i would think you would want to be where the action is. pat moynihan, historically, there have been some great fights. >> that's true, but independents right now are the -- i work for independent journal review, our readers, our staffs. >> lower case "i" or lower case? >> it's upper case "i." they're really struggling with this. if anything, there might be some reform. oh, my goodness with, my hands are tied, i can't vote. the vastest group of voters in the country. >> you probably know this. >> these closed primary have said weighted to the back half of the calendar. so far, it hasn't really been a problem. there's only been three closed

primaries for the democrats. arizona, florida, louisiana, bernie sanders. >> and nobody new york -- >> this is the biggest fight in new york since jerry brown lost to bill clinton in '92. >> of the 17 upcoming contests, nine are closed primaries, including four out of the five biggest by delegate count. >>down, it's interesting to watch the ark of this campaign, the contour of it, you know? so bernie has a run and eight last night, including democrats abroad. this reminds me of early campaigns, like ted kennedy against jimmy carter. or barack obama against hillary. you have this long period and you think one guy's going down. oh, all of a sudden, he starts winning. it's like a roller coaster ride. >> absolutely. >> so we're into a high coming for donald trump and hillary. they seem to be running parallel, by the way. >> they are. and in the case of clinton, she knows these rules. i think her team knew this was probably going to happen with sanders.

that a lot of his supporters would not have signed up. she thinks intricately. >> this is a state -- you have to turn in ballots certain colors. they have to be a certain length. they still use the old levers and curtains to vote. >> i hear that new york -- when thing of new york, i think a lot of state university institutions. the sunni institutions, huge school, campuses all across the state. i would think it would have a high percentage of student-age voters. apparently nothing like massachusetts and some other states. >> it's a big state. and that will be hugely helpful. and upstate, he's going to do really well. you have more white voters, fewer diverse voters. and if you go further upstate, plattsburg area, that's the same media matter as burlington. these people have been seeing bernie sanders on their air for 30 years. but for her, that graphic with the most populist counties, it's gou going to be all about the five boroughs. >> what's the power of blitzes and hot dogs and nathan's hot dogs and junior's cheesecake and

all this awful food you have to eat in new york. in new york, still like that guy or woman biting into some ridiculous hot dog, matza ball or something. >> the fork. >> that's a big mistake. who did that? >> trump did it a few years ago. >> a pizza moment on that. >> it's like john kerry made the mistake of going to philly in south philly and ordering his cheesesteak with swiss. >> bernie had some luck with the pope -- wasn't necessarily the pope, but going to the vatican. he sort of -- the pope, being in the same headline with him and the vatican, the pope has a very high approval rating among hispanics. so all of a sudden to be in that headline with him, does pretty well for bernie. sort of helps him -- >> bernie took a burp -- just kidding, just kidding! still ahead, john boehner, the former speaker, is speaking out why he would like to see the current speaker, paul ryan, at the top of the republican ticket. stay tuned. one crest 3d white smile...

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well, still ahead on "mtp dail daily", could a contested convention put speaker ryan as center stage for the nominati? first, hampton pearson has the cnbc market wrap. >> thanks, chris. we had stocks slipping today. the dow losing 20 points. the s&p down by 5. the nasdaq closing down by 17 points. crude oil prices hit a four-month high today, ahead of a meeting of oil producers in doha next sunday. 15 oil-producing companies have officially signed on to that meeting, aimed at freezing current output levels. and tesla motors will recall 2,700 model-x suvs in the u.s. over a faulty seat-locking mechanism, which could cause third-row seats to collapse forward in an accident. this comes as the company enjoys 335,000 advance orders on its model 3 sedan, slated to begin production late next year. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. ttle lamb.

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welcome back to "mtp daily." paul ryan just has wrapped up his first overseas trip as speaker and back home, he's arriving to news of a delegate sweep for ted cruz out in colorado. and his party is inching closer to, you might say, a contested convention. but ryan is still saying no to running for president hills. and while aides and ryan himself have said he's staying out of the race, his actions lately are telling a different story. this video released from his office had the unmistakable look and sound of a general election campaign ad. and "the new york times" today describes ryan's intention to, quote, shape an agenda that he plans to roll out right before the convention a supplement, of sorts, to the official party platform. that means plans and talking

points that may serve as an alternative focus to the policy of the republican nominee himself. also today, the new york observer, a great newspaper, reports that paul ryan will attend an exclusive meeting of republican financial bundlers. those are the guys who rate a lot of money, organized by todd rickets. a conservative donor. you might remember, donald trump told his family to, quote, be careful when he heard they had donated money to an anti-trump super pac. meantime, ryan's predecessor, john boehner, is onboard. he says if no candidate came up with the majority of 1,237 in the first ballot, his vote is for ryan. luke russert joins us on capitol hill, and we're also joined by michael steele, who worked for a pro-jeb bush pac. thank you. hey, luke, you've got a good nose for up there. what do you smell? i want this on record, what do you smell about the movement's behavior, whatever, about the

speaker you cover? is he hoping to get drafted? >> well, the establishment certainly would love for him to emerge from a contested convention and grab that mantle, chris, but everyone within his operation here on capitol hill, his pac and outside group, they're all very tight-lipped and said no, no means no, he cannot grab this nomination, because he has not run for president. he has not gone after the money, he has not gone state from state, he can't do it. when people bring up the analogy to the speaker's race, i think it's worth a discussion as to why it's different. when the speaker's race occurred, ryan said no. mccarthy went forward. mccarthy pulled out unexpectedly. ryan was forced into it. boehner gave him catholic guilt. they had cardinal dolan call him up and say, you have to do it. the difference with the presidential, cruz and trump have been going around. and if ryan were to somehow grab this mantlepiece and be forced

into it, he would get a lot of backlash from the right, something he does not want to incur. and something i'll say about ryan, if you go forward to this next year, assume cruz or trump is the nominee and the polls are legit and hillary cleans their clock. mcconnell goes back to being the minority leader. it's speaker ryan in charge of the house republicans. he instantly ks be tun disputed leader of the republican party and can move forward and put his mark on the party how he wants. i think from viewing him, he's moreomfortable there than emerging as this sort of white knight in cleveland. >> but also, michael, it would give him the advantage of running against hillary in her second term, if she wins, and she'll be much older. and by the way, if you look at history, it's very, very hard for a party to get 12 years in the white house. it's impossible to get 16, unless your name is franklin roosevelt. so it's very -- and it would be a -- what luke just says in the short-term looks just as good in the long run. >> i think there's something to that. >> but he also wouldn't mind getting it in and out.

>> speaker ryan has been as shermanesque as you can be on this. he ain't running, he's not interested in, he's not running for president. >> but he hasn't given us a sherman statement. >> i think some of his statements have been pretty shermanesque -- >> if nominated, he will not run. have you heard that, luke, if nominated, i will not serve, if elected, i will not run, i will not serve. >> do you want to know why he's not running for president? because he's not running for president this year. he was the vice presidential president last time around. if he would have gotten in, he would have been the front-runner. if he wanted to run, he would have run. >> you don't have to like the guy, but you have to understand how conniving he is and how smart he is. he says it's either trump on the first ballot in cleveland or ryan on the fourth. because it will come to that. no matter what we say or ryan says, it will come to that. because you can't run cruz, who comes in 200, 300 ballots short of trump. there's no justification for

that. >> whether you like him or not, ted cruz has run for president this year. >> if he comes in short of trump, why isn't trump the nominee? >> to the point that luke was making, how can you run someone who never ran for president -- >> how can you run a guy who comes in second? >> he has more delegates than anyone else in the race other than donald trump. if you're looking for the second choice, ted cruz looks like it. >> let me ask you, luke, about the guy you covered for a long time, boehner. why's he so hot for this guy, for ryan? >> well, he loves ryan. because he views ryan as the intellectual future of the party. there is a working class, midwestern catholic connection that they both have. they're both sportsmen. boehner, golf. ryan, more hunting. although he does do some golf on the side. so there's a natural closeness there. but boehner from his position, he's retired. he's now finally free to say what he wants. as mike can tell you, the boehner rule was that he had to bite his tongue for the five years he was speaker here.

you didn't get to say everything he wanted to say. he would love for his gop presidential nominee to be ryan. not someone like cruz, who he despises, and someone like trump, who he's told me personally, is not necessarily someone he understands the rise. this was back last year. i'm interested to see what he says now. >> did you catch boehner at the american ireland fund this year? he was rather open mouthed about his views -- >> and you know what paul ryan said to him? he said, knock it off. and paul ryan used language that was a lot more irish dive bar 3:00 a.m. type of talk, chris. not knock it off, expletive, expletive, expletive, expletive. >> well, i enjoyed the open mike from him there that night. >> indeed. >> what do you think? what's with your guy boehner? >> paul ryan's first political experience was putting up yard signs for john boehner if his first congressional race. these guys go back a long way. speaker boehner has an enormous amount of respect for speaker ryan. he thinks he's a great, smart, future of the party guy. >> did ryan ever steal the lawn

signs of the other guy? >> of course not. >> i hope not. because that's illegal. it is illegal. we learn these things. luke russert, thank you. and thank you michael steele. the other michael steele. we'll be right back. sights to benefit from different points of view. and by consistently breaking apart risk to focus on long-term value. we activy manage with expertise and conviction. mfs. that's the power of active management. so you can invest with more certainty.

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>> this organization will do what it can to protect the american public from the attacks from terrorist groups. i will not agree to carry out some of these tactics and techniques that i've heard bandied about, because this institution needs to endure and, as i said, we've learned lessoned from the past. we have a lot of capabilities and competencies and skills is. and so i don't believe that we need to resort to certain types of tactics. >> like waterboarding? >> absolutely, i would not, i would not agree to having any cia officer carrying out waterboarding again. >> well, the cia directors came after both donald trump and ted cruz, suggesting they would end the ban on waterboarding as president. in a phone interview with fox news this morning, donald trump responded to brennan. here's what he said. >> i think his comments are ridiculous. i mean, they chop off heads and they drown people in cages with 15 in a cage, and big, steel,

heavy cages. drop them right into the water, drown people. and e and we can't waterboard and we can't do anything. we have a huge problem with isis, which we can't beat. and the reason we can't beat them is we won't use strong tactics. whether it's this or other things. >> you can see more of richard engel's exclusive interview with cnn director john brennan tonight on n"nbc nightly news." it's your home. it's everything you've always wanted. and you work hard to keep it that way. ♪ sometimes, maybe too hard. get claimrateguard® from allstate. it helps keep your homeowners' rate from going up just because of a claim. call an allstate agent first. 888-429-5722.

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blockade. and what? it's democracy spring. the activist groups outside the capital protesting voting rights issues. thousands of demonstrators arrived in washington, d.c. today, after a ten-day liberty bell. it's the when. the year 2020, dubai is planning to build the world's tallest skyscraper in time for the world expo there in four years. the city already has the tallest building in the world. and that one got its big screen debut in a mission impossible movie shortly after the building opened in 2010. i love those scenes. don't you? the where. wisconsin governor scott walker offering up old campaign t-shirts in exchange for donations to help him pay off his $1 million presidential campaign debt. in the e-mail to donors, he calls himself thrifty, though he did not mention the $90,000 that he spent during his 70-day run. now, the why. new york city mayor de blazio,

the mayor's nonprofit fund-raising division. here's why de blasio says he's not worried. >> everything we've done is carefully done with many, many laurts. i assure you. but i haven't heard anything about any investigation. >> tonight mayor de blasio joins me on "hardball." i'm terrible at golf. he is. people say i'm getting better. no one's ever said that.

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obviously i don't want to force people to violate their deeply held religious convictions, but we'd have to see what that's all about. i wouldn't have signed that law, from everything i know. i haven't studied it, but nathan deal, the governor of georgia, vetoed another one. and look, you've just got to see what the laws are and what the proposals are and why you need to write a law. can't we figure out just how to get along a little bit better and respect one another? i mean, that's where i think we ought to be. everybody chill out, get over it, if you have a disagreement with somebody. >> this is why people like john kasich. talking about the controversial north carolina transgender law, the so-called bathroom bill. anyway, it's time for the panel tonight. what it is is a law passed in north carolina by a very

conservative party down there, republican party today, where it basically said if you have to go to the bathroom of your birth, whatever you were born physically, you have to -- whatever your identity or choices in life, or identity as you see yourself, who you are psychologically, cannot factor into this. it's almost biblical. go back to where you were born and go to that bathroom. he said, why do we pass laws like this? >> that might work in new york. >> i would think it would work in new york. >> 54-21, all kasich needs to do is drag trump below 50. that argument that he just made there, that might work on long island. >> this get along, go along, people take pride in new york. in how diverse their neighborhood is. >> and the travel ban, no north carolina if they don't have to, because of what they did. >> it will be quick. >> i think it's another emblem of the disintegration of the historical republican coalition.

big corporations have now come firmly down on the side of the lgbt community. >> for what reason? >> business reasons. because they think this is the smartest -- >> mullah. >> they lit up their triangle, in a pink triangle to show support for the lgbt community here. you've got trump -- >> alex, what percentage of the republican party of new york state is the old republican party? >> well, maybe the republican party in new york. >> is it still rockefeller moderate? >> i don't know, 30, 40? >> i have a little more than that in new york. >> it's amazing it survives all this. kasich is making the run. he's going to probably lap cruz in new york. which shouldn't be too hard. he'll lap him. is he going to lap up against trump? >> trump hasn't said anything about these issues. lgbt issues in general haven't

really been in this campaign. >> he hasn't been successful in talking about issues -- >> well, there's that. insulting people. >> he hasn't weighed in on this one. granted, he insults. >> what's the nationalist issue. the democratic fight up there, bernie, he's got college kids. he's got left, the hard left. doesn't seem to be enough, kate. >> no, that's true. he's got the independents and they maybe sort of missed the boat. what bernie keeps doing well is appealing to the human side of people. even talking about the fracking issue and stuff. the safety issue. my kids drink this water. he keeps appealing to the human side. hillary has trouble doing that. >> he's running the playbook, the woman that ran against cuomo in '14.

i'm drawing across the -- >> bernie inside the beltway, alex. here we are inside the beltway. that's the touchy feely thing. he's also got an act he's been doing for 50 years, according to howard dean. the socialist thing works. it hasn't worked until student loans started going through the roof. social security benefits aren't big enough. and health care is a hot-button issue. and the thing bernie has been selling for 50 years seems in tune to the times. >> the time has finally caught up with him. it's a signal to his people he's willing to take this strong stand and he's not going to bend, he's going to stick with it. >> is he going to go away into the night if he loses? it doesn't seem like he'll quit and back hillary. >> i think you're seeing people close to him torn about which way to go. >> are they the new party of

the -- >> you know what, i think some of them, yeah. >> thank you all. great to have you on this other show. ed and alex and kate. chuck will be back tomorrow where he belongs. tune in tonight at 7:00 for "hardball." new york mayor bill de blasio, some call him the big bird, but for us he's our special guest. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm campbell brown. >> i'm mark halperihalperin. we've got your best friend on the show. >> not you, little fella. we're talking about james. >> hello, hello. let's get started by talking about another unpredictable creature who tweets, donald j. trump. later on the show, we'll have