the -- >> you know what, i think some of them, yeah. >> thank you all. great to have you on this other show. ed and alex and kate. chuck will be back tomorrow where he belongs. tune in tonight at 7:00 for "hardball." new york mayor bill de blasio, some call him the big bird, but for us he's our special guest. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm campbell brown. >> i'm mark halperihalperin. we've got your best friend on the show. >> not you, little fella. we're talking about james. >> hello, hello. let's get started by talking about another unpredictable creature who tweets, donald j. trump. later on the show, we'll have

the latest online poll. good data on how donald trump is doing amongst married women voters. but first, let's understand why trump is deriding the complex rules by both republicans and democrats of how they select their delegates. after a chaotic and ted cruz friendly colorado convention on saturday, trump is trying to reverse the new cycle narrative that cruz crusaders are outmaneuvering trump's campaign in the hunt for delegates even in places trump won the primaries. in wyoming this weekend, bernie sanders crushed hillary clinton in the popular vote. but walked away with the same number of delegates as his rival. here's donald trump making the case for himself and for sanders, at a rally in rochester, new york, last night. >> i watched bernie. he wins. he keeps winning, winning, winning. then i see he's got no chance. they say he has no chance. why doesn't he have a chance?

because the system is corrupt. and it's worse on the republican side. because i'm up millions of votes on cruz, millions, i don't mean i'm up by two votes, i'm up millions and millions of votes. we're supposed to be a democracy. we're supposed to be -- we're supposed to be, you vote and the vote means something. what they're doing and whether it's me or whether it's bernie sanders, when i look at it, and i see all these victories that i have, all these victories that he's got, and then you look at the establishment, and i want to tell you, it's a corrupt field going on in this country. >> today the chairman of the republican national committee, mr. reince priebus, defended his party's nomination process. in an interview with the conservative radio host mike gallagher saying, them's the rules, and that state conventions are totally fair. campbell, is donald trump correct that the delegate selection process is unfair to him, to bernie sanders and to the voters? >> no. the rules are in fact the rules. and the fact that trump's own children are not able to vote in

the primary in new york demonstrates how unprepared they are, how little they know about the rules. you can't even get your own family registered in time? this is the way the process is designed to work. the rules may be crazy, in certain states, but they're not arbitrary. they were decided on by the party, or in many cases by the voters in those states, and that's part of the campaign process, being organized, learning the rules and playing by the rules. >> i agree in the end the rules are the rules. but i think trump is right, people would be shocked if they knew that there's not a great correlation between the voters voting, the popular vote and who gets the delegates. >> look at al gore. al gore won the popular vote. he didn't get the presidency. but that was the rule. >> people are critical. in that case there's also the question of votes in florida and whether more people went to the polls intending to vote for al gore. i think trump is on to something here as a rhetorical point.

i agree with you they should understand the rules, they shouldn't whine about them. but i think he's on to something as a talking point to say, bernie sanders and i are the outsiders, the insiders are fixing the game. he's exaggerating to be sure, but i think he's striking quite a chord and helping rally his supporters to come out in the polls in the states yet to vote. >> i think the rules are designed this way in order to build consensus around the nominee. >> they're not totally irrational. >> they're not about getting the popular vote, they're about getting the establishment people onboard with one person. that's why they're written the way they are. that's the intest. >> the news organization should stop stop reporting the popular vote. >> fair. since passover is approaching, here's a question for avid tv watchers. why is this sunday different from all other sundays? donald trump did not do a single sunday show, not even c-span's newsmakers for the first time

all year that trump, this is a sunday where trump hasn't phoned in or taped a sunday interview. but wait, there's more. trump gathered the press following him on saturday, so they could watch him tour the 9/11 memorial museum here in new york city. but afterwards, he did not take a single question. mark, trump did a phoner in to fox news this morning. that's a trump classic, of course. but is doing less media as he appears to be doing good for his chances? >> i never want to argue in favor of a candidate talking to the press less, because i like that as a reporter. but i think trump is smart to play with the supply-and-demand a little bit here. when he does lots, reporters tend to play off of each other. it creates a dynamic that hasn't been good for him. i think if he picks spots and more local press, local tv sometimes without telling the national press, i think he's in a better position for himself to control the message more than he has been. >> i think just because he's doing less media doesn't mean he's getting less media.

i mean, the cable channels are still taking his press conferences, his rallies live. he has basically taken over the media in this campaign. they have given up editorial control. he said, i'm not going to do a sitdown interview, i'll only do phoners. i'm not going to engage with you, take my rallies if you want me. they take his rallies. it has been a testament to trump's talents, and finesse and brilliance, how he has manipulated the media into totally giving up editorial control. so maybe he's doing less, but it doesn't mean he's getting less and it's a great move for him. >> he does one sunday interview, everybody covers it. he doesn't need to do more. >> totally. lately, ted cruz has exhibited a good quality that might make for a good middle manager in staples. that is delegating. cruz is scoring delegates in colorado, north dakota and other states, but the road ahead for cruz is clogged by states with voters who don't like him so much. the next six primary contests are in the northeast and the

mid-atlantic states, including new york, where are a poll shows cruz in third place with 18% of the vote. cruz doesn't return to a more friendly stretch of the primary calendar until indiana. and that's on may 3rd. mark, cruz is in california. campaigning today. is he going to pay a price if he finishes third in these northeastern states? >> i think he will in two ways. he needs to get close enough to trump so he's got within hailing distance to win on a third ballot. and two, i think his argument to get kasich out of the race really diminishes. if he cannot finish second, we've got like a month where there's only northeastern states. much better off for him if he can somehow surge here and prove he can compete in the northeastern states, which means to some extent he can compete for more moderate voters which he needs to do to get the general election argument. >> does this matter if for cruz at thistage, it's just about getting to an open convention?

it's not -- he's just trying to keep trump from getting to that magic number. >> i think the danger for cruz is, yes, that's the main goal. the danger for him is, if it's the only way to win when he gets to convention, he has to have enough delegates he becomes the alternative. if trump fails on the first ballot, cruz needs to win on the second or third. if he can't win on the third ballot, i don't know if he can win on a fourth ballot. he might be able to. but he's got to accumulate as much as he can. a lot of delegates in the northeastern conference. he can't go around arguing to john kasich is irrelevant if he can't beat john kasich in all these contests. even though it's in the northeast. >> i would argue now that cruz, i mean, i think the trump voters are the trump voters, and they're not -- trump has not necessarily convinced in you people. those people aren't switching to cruz. for cruz it's about how do you expand turnout in some of these

states. look at a state like maryland, where he maybe comes in third, but you've got a governor there who hates trump, who has said he's not going to endorse. but maybe you could get him engaged more to ramp up turnout a little bit, to at least get that percentage, or trump's percentage. >> cruz has switched to more of an economic and jobs market which should have some appeal in the northeast. this is approving ground, testing ground for it when he goes california and other western states. all right. it is america's favorite guessing game right now if you're interested in politics at least. who will be the republican presidential nominee. and how will that person be selected. over the past two days, i've gone on twitter and done one of those inscientific twitter polls with four options. one, trump wins the nomination before the convention, two, he wins at convention, can cruz win the nomination, or four, some other outcome. more than 2,000 people have voted in my unscientific poll over the past 48 hours. the tallies match exactly what

my reporting finds. there is a total disparity what people think is going to happen with trump winning at the convention that is far and away the least predicted, the other three are basically tied. this is not scientific, campbell, but i'm going to ask you to vote. of those four choices, what do you think at this point is the most likely outcome? >> first of all, i think it's more scientific than a lot of the polling we've seen. >> 4,000 people. if they follow me on twitter, they're people of refined taste, discernment. >> i think for trump he has to win on the first ballot. don't you think that most of the trump people that you're talking to have conceded as much, that that is -- >> they won't go all the way and say it's the only way to win. they see things becoming a lot diceyer. not to break down the possibilities, what is the most likely. >> i think that is not the most likely at this stage. i think it goes to the second and third. i think it becomes about cruz and his organizing. >> you think cruz at the

convention is the most likely? >> right now i think it is. >> i still think trump before the convention is the most likely. i'm not saying he's going to get it, but if he does really well in the northeast, he wins in indiana, i think he can get there before the convention. maybe not on the day of the california and new jersey primaries. but there's a six-week interval between the primaries and conventions. >> just very quickly, the people who are trying to stop him will even concede we're talking about 20, 30 delegates difference here. >> six weeks to find them. >> coming up, what is the difference between classified and classified? president obama explains it all and talks about hillary clinton's e-mail server. we sit down with bernie sanders' wife jane here in the studio. we'll be right back. i've been onmy feel all day.

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but first, sanders' campaign has shifted its message about hillary clinton a little bit. last week, sanders was calling her unqualified to be president because her super pac takes money from wall street and because of her past positions on the iraq war and on trade. this week he's using a different word. see if you can spot it. >> she may have the experience to be president of the united states, no one can argue that, but in terms of a judgment, something is clearly lacking. maybe her judgment is not quite as high as it should be. my point is, it is a question of judgment. it is a question of judgment. i have my doubts about what kind of president she would make. >> so, mark, does sanders step over the line in the realm of personal attacks when he questions mrs. clinton's judgment? >> i don't think so. the clintons bristled at this today. this is the essence of what you want in a president, good judgment. he pointed out cases where he said she's exercised bad judgment and doesn't think

that's someone who should be president. i think this compared to saying she's disqualified is right within the bounds and the kind of argument all candidates should make. >> some of the clinton people are still smarting over the not qualified comments. because they think it could be used over and over in a general election. but complaining about this, i mean, welcome to politics. it's ridiculous. if any harsher than what barack obama said about hillary clinton in the last campaign, 2008, over her iraq vote, any harsher than she was on him, this is a campaign. grow up. >> i also think bernie sanders would have been before off making this argument right out of the gate after wisconsin to take advantage of the momentum he had there. because his strongest case against her, he's on things like trade and wall street and the iraq war, where he's able to say, this is my judgment, this was her judgment, what kind of judgment do you want in a president. for a lot for democrats in new york state, all over this state, in the city and upstate and western parts of the state, this

is -- those are big comparisons. she's got her own comparisons to make in her own favor. but he's got strong ones. >> it seems like helicopter parenting, finger wagging. the primaries are supposed to be boot camp. they make you a better candidate. >> right. bernie sanders made several stops around gotham city culminating in front of a big roller coaster idea. he's trailing hillary clinton in a new nbc news "wall street journal" maris poll by 55-41%. that's out today. his campaign is now saying that new york is not a must-win state for him. even though coming into the camp, a lot of pundits said it was. is the sanders campaign right, that he doesn't need to win new york to still be the nominee, or are they just aspinning? >> i think they're spinning. i think he has to win new york if he wants the nomination. you probably know the math here

as well as anyone. it feels like he needs a big wild card moment of some kind, to change the dynamic. win new york or not win new york. now, what is sort of unexpected, or we all know is, is hillary clinton going to make a mistake or big gaffe along the way. with the clintons you don't know. even if he doesn't win new york, i don't see him getting out. i think it's going to be a long, hard slog for her no matter what. >> if he wins it by a lot, by a little, lose by a lot or a little, he still has to find a lot more delegates. there are too many delegates in new york for him to just say, he doesn't need to win here. i think his chances for being the nominee don't go down appreciably, but he needs to pick up delegates and get -- he needs the momentum of beating her. he needs the gee whiz factor

saying, i beat her in new york. >> for those darn e-mails. president obama sat down with chris wallace on fox news sunday where he was asked about the pesky fbi investigation into hillary clinton's home server. first, obama said he couldn't speak about the pending investigation, and swore not to interfere. then the president spoke about the pending investigation anyway, and basically once again exonerated his party's likeliest presidential nominee. >> hillary clinton was an outstanding secretary of state. she would never intentionally put america in any kind of jeopardy. there's classified and then there's classified. there's stuff that is really top-secret, top-secret, and there's stuff that you might not want on the transim, or going out over the wire. but is basically stuff you could get in open -- >> are you prepared to say she hadn't jeopardized, and do you still say that? >> i continue to believe she has not jeopardized america's

national security. now, what i've also said is that -- and she's acknowledged -- that there's a carelessness in terms of managing e-mails that she has owned. and she recognizes. >> today during a white house press briefing, josh ernst defended his boss and how the president knows what he knows about the investigation. >> the president is neither sought nor received confidential briefing or confidential information about the ongoing investigation. the president's knowledge about this situation is based entirely on public reporting. this is one of the benefits of the approach that secretary clinton and her team have taken to dealing with this matter. >> so mark, why is the president talking again about this e-mail investigation? >> beats me. if he's only learning about this from public information or not, to say i'm going to have this

investigation be independent, but then try to exonerate her, overseeing the justice department, i don't get it. i don't know if he's trying to help her or not. but it makes no sense for me to be talking about this investigation. just say it's an ongoing investigation, i've got nothing to do with it. i have confidence in the justice department. even testify to her honesty. but to talk about the specifics of the case, i do not get it. >> i was totally stunned when i heard him say it. i totally agree with you. any president would be expected to say it's an ongoing investigation. i can't comment on it. and then to say you don't want to influence what's going on or you're not going to influence what's going on at the justice department, but be overt on your -- >> if he's got no inside information that he can't possibly exonerate her. he doesn't know what they've found. >> it's a testament to how much he's struggling right now that he would feel the need to step in and protect his legacy. >> i guess so. when we come back, jane sanders

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>> this is a rough and tough state with media in the city. how is it going? >> it's our state. both of us born and bred here. it's been amazing. it's been really good to be home, going down to coney island yesterday, having so many people out there. south bronx, 18,500 people out in the audience. and at a rally. it's been fantastic. >> your husband said you may be from vermont but you're not intimidated by this. is it intimidating to run with all the spotlight and glare? >> we're not intimidated by new york. we just love it. now that you mention it, probably we should be about the election. because secretary clinton represented new york. but it feels like home to me. >> just do this. >> do you think -- your husband has made this complaint that the process has been unfair, given the way the delegate rules are designed in many cases. do you agree with that?

do you think it's been unfair? >> i don't think he thought so much like it was unfair. it does seem kind of silly that 30% of the votes that you need are non -- they have super delegates. they're people that are not the voters. so that doesn't seem quite right. i know that that's what the republicans wish they had at this point in time. we just don't agree with the way that that -- one person, one vote. >> what would you say to your grandkids who say grampa won wyoming by 12 points and got the same number of delegates? how does that work, grandma? what would you say? >> every state has its own rules. i don't like how they figure it out, but it doesn't quite make a lot of sense to me, but those are the rules that were set before we entered and those every the rules we're playing by. >> unlike donald trump, you wouldn't say these rules are corrupt or fixed or stacked -- >> everybody has their own way. it's kind of interesting to see that it's all different state by state. i'd like to see more of a federal election that you win a

state, and every state has the same requirements for registration. for instance, independents can't vote in new york. and we're building the democratic party. and yet we're keeping them out if last october they didn't decide to run -- to register as democrats. that doesn't seem smart. >> you mentioned the super delegates. and the role that they play obviously. if you're trying to sway them and bring them over, what's your message to them? what do you say to them? >> well, i think the key is to look at who's the best candidate for the general election. i mean, bernie wins -- whoever the democratic party nominee is going to win the base of the party, the democrats. but who wins the independents, and who sways some of the republicans. i think bernie has done that throughout his whole career. he wins independents everywhere. in our own state of vermont, in his last senatorial election, he got 25% of the republicans. because he said, we know you, we trust you, we might not agree

with everything you're saying but we know we can count on you to do what you say. so i think he's a much better candidate, even predicting it that way. but if you look at all the polls, he's doing much better against all the republicans than secretary clinton is. >> jane sanders, stand by. we're going to come back, more with jane sanders of vermont and new york, right after this. (patrick 1) what's it like to be the boss of you? (patrick 2) pretty great. (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us.

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we are back with one of bernie sanders' closest advisers, and sometimes she's the primary news source. she broke the news he had won the wyoming caucuses. jane sanders thank you for being here again. >> good to be here. >> we were talking about the differences on the delegate

rules, and also about the super delegates. talk to us a little bit about your role in all of this. you -- how you define it as someone who's campaigning for him. you're very involved in his ad making. how do you see your role in the campaign pand what you're spending time on? >> there's about a half dozen of us that really work with bernie on anything that is necessary. a strategic role. but it started with just buying the furniture for the office, you know. whatever needed to be done was done. and now we're -- i travel with him a lot, which has been really nice. and really just talking about strategy, scheduling, and television advertising. >> apparently there's one role that you have uniquely. you're the family cpa. you do the taxes. >> turbo taxes. >> turbo taxes. here's a candidate who says trust me when i release my taxes, there will be no problem. >> yeah. >> but he won't say when he'll release or what's in them.

>> that's my fault. he said to me, we have to answer this. i said, well, i was expecting that when they were tu, we would be releasing them. >> how about the prior years? >> well, sure. i'll have to go back and find them. but yes -- >> they're not on file anywhere? >> yes. but we haven't been home for a month. two weeks ago people asked, the clinton campaign or someone asked and we said, of course we'll release them. and we will. >> in full, not a summary. not an individual page, the whole thing. >> sure, no problem. >> if donald trump or some other candidate said trust me, i'll release them eventually, trust me, would you say, oh, that's fine, there's nothing in them, no problem, or would you say, we really need to see those is this. >> i would say, well, when they're due, i would expect them to come out. >> but that's -- >> every other year i ask for an extension. but this year, we knew i couldn't do that. >> you'll release how many years? >> i don't know. how many do you want, mark? >> i think the clintons have released eight. or even more. but at least -- >> they've been in office all these years.

>> senator sanders has been in the house and senate for -- >> right. every election we've released them. >> you'll release your whole returns not just a summary? >> we did when he ran for election, yeah. >> all right. we look forward to that. >> i'll release this year's as soon as they're due. can i have time to go home? >> sure. >> and then release -- >> you're saying there's nothing in them? >> there's nothing. we're really pretty boring. >> your senate income? what else do you have? >> social security. i sold my mom's condo the beginning of the year. >> pretty simple return? >> yeah, pretty simple return. >> let me ask you about the -- this is more on the republican side. a occkurfuffle, about the attenn paid to wives and spouses. do you think that is fair?

you know, are spouses fair game in this? >> i don't think families are fair game. i think that spouses put themselves out there in a supportive role. we're not playing partisan politics. to criticize people as they did, as trump did for heidi cruz, for her looks, that's ridiculous. first off, she's a very nice looking woman. but beyond that, it's just not nice to take personal attacks against anybody, let alone the spouses. i think it's fine to ask questions of them. if we are here, you can ask questions. >> you leaving for italy with your husband on thursday night? >> i am. >> the new york primary is in eight days. you'll spend two days, a quarter of the time left -- >> actually one and a half. we're leaving -- >> thursday right after the debate? >> leaving first thing saturday morning. we'll have events on saturday. i mean, we're in new york, we've been in new york all this time. and we're going to continue

through the election. we've been in new york a lot more than secretary clinton has with her fund-raising trips everywhere. >> does everyone on the campaign think it's a bad use of time or the right thing to do? >> everyone thinks it's the right thing to do. >> what will you do there? >> bernie will be speaking at the invitation of the vatican about the moral economy. that's quite an invitation that you really do not want to reject. i mean, this is quite an honor. and it's something that, you know, that he feels very strongly, pope francis is an slept leader. >> right. >> and that the issues he talks about are very similar to the ones bernie talks about. >> all right. next time you go, i'll give my recommendations to you. bill clinton the other day made remarks about, being heckled by black lives matter folks. and the press jumped on one thing he said and the next day he attempted to apologize, that's a paraphrase. do you think in our politics,

for yourself, your husband, and the other spouses and candidates, they seize on one word or phrase too often rather than looking at the totality of what's said? is that a fair criticism of the political process do you think? >> i would definitely say that. it's crazy that the story is the gaffe. the story is the mistake. it's not what the intent was. now, i -- now, i think bill clinton probably regrets how he handled that questioner. but he was speaking about other things as well. >> i would say that you're right. but i'd also say your campaign occasionally has done that to your political opponent. is that a fair thing to say? that you sometimes will take one thing secretary clinton says and kind of exacerbate, or exaggerate its impact? >> i don't know that that's true, mark. i think that is politics today. i know i always try to say, no, what did she mean, what was the

context. and we -- when it fits with the overall -- the whoever all image that hillary clinton is trying to project, or doesn't fit with it, and then we might put it out there. but it's always in a context. >> you might not want to go here, it may be premature. but there are a lot of people in the pundit world who says if he doesn't win in new york, it's over for sanders, and he shouldn't go on at that point. how do you think about this over the long term? it's a must-win. >> no, that's the question that's been asked in iowa, new hampshire, in ohio, everywhere. everybody keeps on thinking that, well, he can't make it. you have to remember, when he started, nobody took him seriously. the media didn't cover him all throughout 2015. and now they're starting to. and he's won eight out of the

nine last contests. so i think that he needs to do well in new york, and i think that if he does well in new york, which is his opponent's state that she represented, that says a lot. i think what we're looking at is momentum. we're looking at how people are feeling about him. the more -- we're in an enviable position, i think. the more people hear about bernie, the more they know about him, the more they like him. that's a really good place to be. it's unfortunate they didn't know more about him before. and we didn't decide to run until may -- or april, i guess. >> super delegates from massachusetts, the state secretary clinton won narrowly. should they be freed to support bernie sanders and not go along with the voters in their state? is that fine with you? >> with 30% of the votes that you need, that they're super delegates, they -- most of them have been elected to represent

their state. so i would think that those representing their state would look to -- when you have a very large margin, you know, two-thirds or more, that i would think that that would be a given. i know that's how i'd comport myself if i was elected. >> super delegates should be free to vote either way? >> they have to use their judgments. that's why they're super delegates. that was the thinking, that they would be able to use their judgment and make some decisions. >> i think bernie sanders is better than hillary clinton, even though my state voted overwhelmingly for hillary clinton, you think they should vote for bernie sanders and not go with the majority of their voters? >> i think they should go with the majority of their voters. >> they should? >> i think so. but i mean, as i said, the majority, a big majority. but a small majority, i mean, we've tied so many -- >> if it's close, they should use their judgment, but if it's a big margin -- >> i think they'll do whatever they want to do. i'm not here to direct them. but it seems fairer, put it that

way, it seems fairer to have people when bernie wins 70%, 80% of the vote in elections, that the super delegates follow. >> when you talk about hamilton, we'll have you back. >> it was great. >> thank you very much. you're nice to come back. always good to see you. >> thank you. >> up next, republican mega strategist joins us right after this. ♪ there it is... this is where i met your grandpa. right under this tree. ♪ (man) some things are worth holding onto. they're hugging the tree. (man) that's why we got a subaru. or was it that tree? (man) the twenty-sixteen subaru outback. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®.

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joining us now, the former chairman of the florida republican party, senior adviser to jeb bush's presidential campaign and a man we like to talk to. he's currently not supporting any of the three remaining candidates. mr. chairman, welcome. >> great to be with you. >> appraise the state of your presidential nomination fight right now. where does it stand? >> well, i think, i'll be very surprised if donald trump doesn't fall short by a hundred, maybe 80 delegates. i think maybe ted cruz's shot is at getting within 200. they'll be between 200 and 300 delegates, either because they're released by the folks that they -- that they're there to represent, or because they're rnc members or senators. and they could well tilt this thing before you walk into the convention hall. and so it's up to either of those candidates to do that. but i see everybody's getting every individual delegate's

information. who they like to fish with, who like golf. sometimes if they like golf, they'll be called by a professional who might be supporting a particular candidate. this thing gets very personal, very specific, and obviously these delegates are worth their weight in gold. >> is that really happening right now with the delegates? i mean, that sort of deal-making and lobbying at that sort of granular level? >> i believe that you'll see that as inevitable. right now, i think two-thirds of the campaigns are concentrating on adding delegates. and then there's another whole crew that's there to do the intel work, find out who each delegate is, how strongly they feel about the process, if they're there really because of the candidate our their friends selected them. i would say 30%, 40% of those will be delegates, are not there because they're enthusiastic followers of a person, they're there to represent, but they're there because they're donors or

elected officials or party regulars. and they'll do what they need to do. they'll respect the rules. at the end of the day, they'll follow their heart once those responsibilities are over. everybody needs to know who they're going to be. >> i know it's hard to generalize, but we debate this all the time, do you think the delegates care about electabili electability, they'll say i want this person, because i think this person can win a general election? >> if you are really for a particular candidate, it doesn't matter what the polls say. you're not there intellectually, your heart's taking you there. and your heart says that candidate will win and we'll figure out a path to get there. if you're a party regular, you're an elected official, you'll be much more pragmatic. yes, you're going to be looking at the polls and they should be worried. the polls right now are not being very kind to our two likely nominees. >> how do you weight that? how many people are there because of their heart and how many people are there because of their elected officials or donors or they're thinking like

perhaps you -- >> you could throw old traditional outlooks out the window in this election cycle, because the two candidates who are likely -- one of the two who are likely to be the nominees are ones who don't have a long track record of support, not like a reagan or bush, or even bob dole, people who have a history in a party. it's going to be the first time since eisenhower, other than george bush jr. where you elect someone who hasn't been a nominee or hasn't been in the process once before. remember, just about every republican nominee has run once before. we've had a chance to know about them. this time, people are even getting to know some of these candidates. there are people wondering, gee, donald trump is like this, or like that, ted cruz has a soft spot in his heart, people are literally trying to figure these candidates out as we speak. >> why hasn't the establishment crowd rallied around kasich more if that's the case?

if they're not falling in love, still trying to figure out cruz, figure out trump, why hasn't kasich been the alternative? >> love is a two-way street. donald trump, a couple of weeks ago, you would think by now where he is, he would be kind of rounding up the troops, putting out some strong messages about wanting to unite the party. what does he say? he says, i don't want jeb bush's report, i don't want support from mitt romney. he is purposely shunning the potential support of others to bring the party together. and he's doing that, i think, because he believes at this point in time the only recourse he has is to take control of the party, take control of the nomination, and win on his own terms. i don't believe donald trump thinks that he can put the toothpaste back in the tube after the campaign he's run. >> al, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> very smart man about pretty much everything. up next, our new lindbergh politics online poll about what

married women think regarding donald trump, hillary clinton and the other candidates. and if you're watching us in washington, d.c., you can now listen to us on the radio in the nation's capital bloomberg 99.1 fm on the radio. we'll be right back. seems like we've hit a road block. that reminds me... anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea... ...gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health obiotic cap each day helps defend against occasional digestive issues. with three types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips'.

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hot off the electronic press. our online poll conducted by our friends at purple strategies, we call it a purple slice survey, because it looks at the demographics for the general election, which is married women. mitt romney won that in 2012. this year, it shows republican married women favor donald trump over ted cruz. but in a general election, trump, cruz and hillary clinton all have extremely high unfavorable numbers with that group. joining us now from our washington bureau to explain the poll further is the purple strategy ceo and democratic thought influencer, that's what the teleprompter says.

steve, just first talk about the mec methology of the sliced polls for us. >> they're online surveys, as you mentioned. al hunt had the brilliant idea, and it was really a smart idea, to take a look at the slices of the electorate that will make a difference to determine the outcome and look at how they're performing this year as opposed to four years ago. you've already given the headline. among married women, who mitt romney carried by 7 points four years ago, hillary clinton has a 12-point lead over donald trump, which represents a 19-point swing in the direction of democrats. so go down the ballot if you're a senate -- if you're looking at senate races or house races and see what happens when you put a 19-point swing in there. it's not going to be a pretty picture for republicans, if this slice holds the way it is. >> was that the most surprising thing for you? the good news here, i guess, for hillary clinton? >> it's actually very good news. mark mentioned a moment ago, campbell, none of these

candidates is particularly popular on their alone. but in comparison to another candidate, hillary clinton looks a lot more popular and a lot more appealing to a group that went for mitt romney by seven points four years ago. if i were in the clinton campaign tonight looking at these numbers, i would be very, very happy. >> is there anything, if you're in the trump campaign tonight, you would look at the numbers and say that's good news? >> well, you know, donald trump leads in areas where you would expect him to lead. they're not necessarily partisan areas. for instance, if you ask who's going to do a better job changing washington, donald trump has a lead among these married women over hillary clinton. if you ask who represents -- who's going to bring new ideas to washington, donald trump has a lead. and if you ask who's going to be better at creating jobs in america, you know, donald trump's business experience really helps in there. on the other side, though, if you ask who's ready day one to be president, hillary clinton wins that. if you ask who has the

temperament to be president, which i think is something that you're going to see debated, discussed, and voters focusing on a little bit more, hillary clinton has the lead there. if you ask who's going to be a better role model for our children, obviously donald trump doesn't win that. hillary clinton does. all those things are good news for rt clinton camp. >> steve, i know you asked about trump's position on abortion. tell us what people said about that. >> it's interesting. first of all, people don't really understand what his position is, as much as they think his position is the same as theirs. the purple slice we looked at, 50% reported that his position on abortion is not the same as theirs. another 19% i think correctly identified his position, and 31% were unsure. so not withstanding all the attention that donald trump's abortion answer, four or five abortion answers last week got,

most voters haven't really received the information. they kind of think he's standing not where they are, which is a little bit of a problem for him. they're not sure where he stands with the exception of a minority of women who actually do understand where he is. >> steve, we're going to -- >> i still don't. >> we'll do more of these sliced polls. it's safe to say, isn't it, that you can slice and dice the electorate in a number of ways to figure out ways the republican can win the popular vote, but if they don't do better than this, there's no way for them to do it, right? >> that's exactly right, mark. you can look at these demographics and you can compare how the candidates today are doing relative to how the exit polls show the candidates to have done four years ago. and in this case, it's a 19-point swing in the democrats' position. if i was mitch mcconnell or paul ryan i would be concerned, because regardless of how donald trump does, whether he wins or doesn't win, if these numbers hold among married women, you've got a down ballot, really, a

down ballot debacle if you're a republican. >> steve mcmann in washington. the sliced poll is up on our website right now. great data to look at this extraordinarily important group of voters. and campbell and i will be right back. n people who don't have access to basic banking, but that is changing. at temenos, with the microsoft cloud, we can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations with nothing but a phone and a tablet. everywhere where there's a phone, you have a bank. now a person is able to start a business, and employ somebody for the first time. the microsoft cloud helped us to bring banking to ten million people in just two years. it's transforming our world. when your symptoms start... distracting you? doctors recommend taking ...non-drowsy claritin every day of your allergy season. claritin provides powerful, non-drowsy 24 hour relief... for fewer interruptions from the amazing things you do every day.

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our thanks to jane sanders, and steve mcmahon for joining us, as well as to our friends, the birds, joining us. >> the birds! >> check out our poll with purple strategies. the latest slice poll is on there. a great look at married women. coming up on bloomberg television, daner media founder. campbell, new york primary one week away. anybody campaigning in your neighborhood? >> no. let's see, the donald trump vote in tribeca, the ted cruz vote in

tribeca -- >> probably very limited. john will be back tomorrow. we thank campbell for joining us. we thank these pesky birds for joining us. we'll see you tomorrow. thanks for watching. sayonara. >> sayonara. coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. broadway or bust. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. hillary clinton versus bernie sanders, we're eight days away from new york's big primary. a slew of big polls out today show hillary clinton with a double-digit lead out there. giving clinton a 14-point lead up there in new york. a new fox news poll has clinton over sanders by 16 points. look at those numbers. anyway, last week senator sanders backed away from his attack on clinton's