>> there's been so much pressure like in colorado, which was a total fix. the people all wanted to vote. they took away their vote. they said they're going to do it by delegate. oh, isn't that nice. i end up winning louisiana. then, when everything is done, i find out i get less delegates than this guy that got his ass kicked, okay. give me a break. >> now, you may have noticed that when donald loses -- he gets very unhappy. he yells and screams and stamps

his foot. he curses and yells and insults anyone nearby. look, as we know in the state of california, wine is something best served with cheese. >> there you go. there he is, just for you. he did that just for you. >> he did! i like that line. [ laughing ] >> wine is -- okay. good morning, everyone. it is tuesday, april 12th. welcome to "morning joe." with us we have managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of "with all due respect" airing at 6:00 eastern time on msnbc, mark halperin. former communications director for president george w. bush nicolle wallace. professor of the university of michigan school of public policy. i mean, look at this guy, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. he charges a lot! >> i finally got somebody to talk to about the masters.

nobody could talk about it yesterday. did you see the final round? >> i did. >> looked like something hit another ball -- that was amazing. >> literally went out for like five minutes. and when i came back in he had gone from -- he was on his way to a consecutive masters win and one of the most dominant runs in golf to looking like you and me. >> joe can hit the ball. but from holes 10 to 12 his history there at the masters which has been short. he was one under. he goes from 10 to 12 and shoots six over. bogey, bogey, quadruple and changed the trajectory not only of the tournament. i just hope -- he's young. people wondering whether he can recover from this. he will. >> that's a question. rory recovered. greg norman never recovered. >> he's so young. >> sometimes you recover. sometimes you don't. >> what happens? it's like a mental --? >> no. thing is about golf -- >> two days ago.

>> it was sunday. >> you guys need to get a life. >> it's a tournament like no other, though. >> nothing like it. also with us. this was a very long digression. >> you know what he's thinking about? >> uh-huh. >> when is harold ford going to be back on "morning joe." if we had only put you on friday, none of that what would happened. we have one more introduction to make with this. political writer for the "new york times" nick confessori. >> how about news? how about some news? >> really? donald trump appears headed for his first majority victory one week from today. we have to do some afternoon hours, but i have a proposition to make for management. let's just go till noon. >> i like that. >> i think we should talk to phil about that. seems kind of silly to, right? >> should we really be negotiating -- >> i want to stay on for six

hours. we did that four years ago. >> we would be on from 6:00 in the morning until noon. >> i like turning the tv on and seeing you guys on in the afternoon. >> you do? >> it doesn't always sink in so early. >> she's negotiating against us. >> thanks, nicolle. as the nbc/wall street journal/marist poll finds him at 50% among new york republican voters. >> i thought he was finished. seriously, wisconsin -- because i was looking, keep that up there. trump has 54. kasich at 21. cruz at 18. i got to tell you, mark halperin, i saw the returns come in from the outskirts of appleton, wisconsin, and i read the newspaper, and i go on the twitter. i thought donald trump was finished. i thought that was the end. they told me he was done. >> right. >> all of the sins of donald

trump had caught up to him. >> okay. >> no, i'm serious. how could this be? >> you can go home again. >> i'm flabbergasted. >> the northeast is good for trump. wisconsin was bad and this is shaping up to be a spectacular state for him. >> really? are they all going to state when he wins new york that it's all over, like after wisconsin? >> all over for trump or against trump? >> it's always against trump. will they say this time it's all over? i'm saying, seriously, the jack asses who have been doing this for nine months should stop embarrassing themselves. it's getting old. >> if he performs well in new york he'll be back on track with the majority. wisconsin will be a distant memory. >> what's insulting to me, harold ford, so few things are insulting to me, but what's insulting is you can't state politically obvious things, right, without people saying, oh, you're in the tank for trump or oh, you're supporting trump. no, no.

we just can actually look at the earth and see that the sun goes down and that it's actually not flat. there have been a lot of flat earthers out there for nine months. >> yep. >> who have been writing stories in the mainstream media that donald trump will not win. then when it looks like he could win, he is a nazi, a fascist. i think robert reich compared him to mussolini, hitler and stalin. you combine that, that's about 50 million deaths between them all. >> it's not funny but -- >> i guess it's just because, you think about it, donald trump is still friends with omarosa which tv guide once listed as the top ten villains of tv in history. i suppose there is a reason why they could draw the connection. stalin killed 30 million of his own people.

maybe there's that connection. i don't know. but i do know political reality. the political reality is, for whatever reason, whether you support him or don't support him. donald trump is in a strong position while a bunch of idiots last week were predicting his demise like they were since he went down that elevator with his big, beautiful hands. as you say to the "washington post." big and beautiful. no. i'm asking harold ford. >> what? >> how do you feel with this campaign analyzing this campaign if you can't tell the truth? >> i was on with you guys about a week ago, and we analyzed the david brooks' column. said he needed to get out of his office and get down to try to understand the electorate better. you have a week. whoever wins they get the burst, they get the energy and the attention. one thing that has not happened to trump is that his voters have not left him. in fact, people seem to be more

intrigued by him, by how he answers and how he responds with adversity and toughness. after wisconsin, no doubt the establishment thought they could regroup, rejuvenate and find a message to perhaps puncture him and take the air out of that balloon. it doesn't look like that's happening here in new york. if he wins with the numbers coming out in the last 24 hours, mark, you know better than i do, looks like he can win all the delegates. 50% plus one here. >> nicolle, another example of somebody who has relatives supporting donald trump. you yourself not supporting donald trump. but you've been saying this strongly for the last couple of weeks from people, again, who just don't want -- they don't want to report the truth, they don't want to hear about the truth. >> yeah. listen, i think, at this network we've done a more careful job than at other networks where what you will to be true clouds what you can plainly see to be true. i would say that the drama of the night was lost on what you just described, this sort of

jubilation that he had a setback. all that happened was it became possible for him to maybe not get to 1,237. nothing else happened. >> exactly. >> nobody else had a possibility and nobody else has a possibility of getting to 1,237. i think people really get lost in what the drama is and isn't. he didn't crumble. he didn't crater. actually, the question of the night that he's now answered is can he adjust, can he make improvements. he plainly has and can. >> he has made, mark halperin, a number of adjustments. i mean, i don't know if he -- maybe he's called in to one or two shows. but he is putting statements out. he is having his campaign guy go out and make the nazi analogies. >> let's just -- let's not over -- >> celebrate? >> yeah. >> i'm not. >> the point is he has a surrogate. he hasn't had one. >> he has a surrogate. >> i am not over celebrating.

i'm not under celebrating. i'm doing what i've been done from the beginning. i've been boring. john madden. that's a 15 and out. he completed that pass. first down. move the chains. that's all i'm doing. sorry. so he's moving the chains down the field. they can hate the fact that -- >> you have to tell people who john madden is. >> he's still in danger of not getting the majority. even if he does super well in new york, and going to the convention short and not necessarily winning on a subsequent ballot. he has not locked it up. >> i'm not saying he's locked it up. >> alex says last sunday was the first sundayless trump in five months. in five months. >> i'm just saying, all the things that people said he needed to do he's starting to do but you don't see those stories. let's see. what's it say -- >> they're not. >> let's see if there is something about donald trump setting a dumpster afire somewhere here in new york.

there has to be something. trump took his campaign to albany last night insiden a arena with a capacity for 17,000 people. after losing dozens of delegates to ted cruz through local party meetings and state convention in colorado last week, trump railed against the delegate process. >> if i go to the voters of colorado, we win colorado. so it's a crooked, crooked system. you know, we think about democracy and we think about our country. let me tell you a little secret as far as our country is concerned. we have a democracy, but we've got to keep our democracy, and we're going to do that. and it's very interesting. it's a very sick system. and i'll tell you what. maybe in addition to winning, maybe we'll clean up the system so that in future years we can have an honest contest, we might be able to clean up this dirty, rotten, disgusting system. >> so, as we said yesterday, nicolle --

>> that's one way to put it. >> as we said yesterday -- >> he is on to something. >> totally. totally. >> we said -- >> that was our theme of the show. >> the rules are the rules. rules were laid out clearly. none of his people have any reason to complain about it. but as far as a campaign message goes, the system is rigged. >> right. >> how people feel. >> that's as good as it gets. >> that's the bernie sanders message. >> he is back on his core message. his people are animated because they've felt for years through democratic and republican administrations that the economy is rigged against them. they have looked at the republican establishment and the people who govern under the banners of republican in washington saying they're going to repeal obamacare or whatever and this is what animates his supporters and i think gives him the opportunity to grow his base to other people who feel like the establishment in politics and the establishment economy is rigged against them. i think this is a good message for him. bernie sanders has taken the campaign finance message and said that these big givers have rigged the system.

>> yeah. >> he's taken his -- you don't lose by talking about things being rigged against everyday, hard-working middle class americans. if your message is to empower. >> it's become a universal thing and they're winning with it. >> i've covered politics for a fair number of years. i can't explain to you the delegate selecting process in colorado. it's impenetrable. it's not rigged in anyone's favor, but it's not a democratic system. >> no. >> it's unbelievable. >> votes don't count. >> nick confessori, i went to read one of my favorite conservative writers yesterday at the "national review" and for him to explain why trump was whining. i accept -- about colorado. because the rules are the rules are the rules. i got about halfway down it and said, wait a second, let me start over again to try to figure out when exactly the

people of colorado had their chance to vote. it ended up they had the chance to vote in the fall but not for candidates but for delegates. i'm not going to go out in like the fall and vote for tom, you know two-heart through driving snow. oh, i think i'm going to go 30 miles and sit in a caucus room and vote for tommy. tommy t. so it's just. it's a very convoluted process. it seems to play, in colorado at least, right into trump's rhetorical hands. big, beautiful hands he tells the "washington post." trump here i think is standing in for the average person who has no idea how the whole system works. voters have been going into the ballot box in primaries the same way they've been going to voting booths in general. they think voting for a candidate. it turns out they're voting for a person who votes for a person who votes for a person who vote for the candidate. it's a system that actually has

not been stress-tested in the modern era. and so trump, who has no idea how it works. he wakes up one day and he says, wait a second. >> makes sense. >> i should say. it's malpractice. not criminal. political malpractice that his team did not recognize this and prepare for it. any other candidate of measure has been figuring out how to win at this part of the process, and the rules are the rules. >> the republican party is defending itself. members of the republican establishment have defended the colorado rnc. reince priebus tweeted the rules were set last year. nothing mysterious, nothing new. the rules have not changed. the rules are the same. nothing different. the state's republican u.s. senator cory gardner weighed in. ted cruz showed up to the colorado gop convention. donald trump sent a surrogate. cruz swept. elections are won by those who show up. i have attended state

conventions for years. it requires organization and attention to grass roots to win. cruz had it, trump didn't. end of story. >> that won't work. >> what's that? >> won't work. >> it just doesn't. >> not when you have voters involved. i get it. a lot of states have these kinds of rules. >> the voters, the people of colorado don't go to the voting booth and don't go to the caucuses. they've got these party conventions. >> ted cruz was kind of mocking him about it, almost like a -- >> do you want to see that? >> yes, i do. >> would that make your morning? >> he did it, as they used to say, especially for you. >> oh, please, roll it. >> donald has been yelling and screaming. a lot of whining. i'm sure some cursing. and some late-night fevered tweeting. all the characteristics i would note we would want of a commander in chief.

the latest thing he seized upon is when people vote against him, they're stealing the election. it's a really odd notion. well, what is this democracy of which you speak? wait, wait. you mean voters get to vote? no, no, no. no, no, no. >> they don't really, but okay. >> what do you think, mika? >> i love it. it's so fun to watch. >> do you really? >> yes. >> what do you think, nicolle? >> well, i think that his message of -- i think what he is doing is smart. >> he's got a very smart campaign. >> he has the best campaign operationally. >> absolutely. >> i think they've used technology. george w. bush in '04 had a good campaign. >> there is no way that would happen on its own. >> they've innovated and done the best in terms of putting together a ground game. i don't think it should be the message. i think when campaigns mix process with a message it's a loser.

they should do what they're doing because they're playing by the rules and doing it better than anybody else. but it shouldn't become the message. the message should be to win the hearts and minds of the voters. trump wins talking about the voters. >> mm-hmm. >> what about that pause he has? >> i mean, i want to watch every ted cruz state of the union address with mika. >> oh, my god. i will drink. i will pick up the bottle. >> the pauses are great. >> and i don't. i couldn't. >> a british playwright. won the nobel a few years ago? >> for pauses. >> rush limbaugh is good at pauses. >> it's the cruz pause now. >> he is not afraid of silence. of the quiet. >> >>. still ahead, bono takes center stage on capitol hill. the u2 frontman and political activist joins us live ahead of his testimony today before congress. former republican candidate

senator rand paul joins us here on the set. plus, film maker ken burns with his new documentary on jackie robbins. bono, ken burns. rand paul. back again. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. let me show you something that was fairly fascinating from the denton, texas, area. outside of dallas. softball size hail. look at this pool. this is baseball chunks of hail into the pool. wind gusts up to 40 miles per hour. no tornado but this was bad enough. a lot of windows smashed. even people's living room windows were smashed in texas yesterday. a lot of cleanup today. the storms are over. just a soaking rain on i-10 from new orleans to mobile, panama city, pensacola. light rain up through the

carolinas this morning. as we go into the northeast, bring your umbrella with you. this morning you'll need it. this afternoon you'll carry it home. the sun might even come out. d.c. the light rain is moving. rain moves quickly in and quickly out. by the time we get to about 11:00 to noon, d.c., philly and new york, the rain should be just about done. boston, 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. the rain will be done for you. then the warmup begins. especially in the middle of the country. central plains. tuesday, wednesday. minneapolis 70 degrees. by the weekend, even the northeast will see temperatures well above average. about time, right? no signs of any cold air. washington, d.c., rain showers this morning. sunshine this afternoon. and then you are in for a stretch of fantastic weather towards the weekend. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪

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confess this country is ready for a woman. there is no problem. we're going to be able to elect a woman in this country. >> would you like to see us elect a woman? >> i would like to.

>> break. >> that's all right. i don't mind any problem. >> i'd like to ask one more question. >> the president and i are not going to endorse. we both, when we ran, said let the party decide. good gosh y'aall mighty. they're both qualified. hillary is overly qualified to be president. >> who loves joe biden. raise your hand. we need a full tally. >> five-nil. >> everybody and anybody. we love him. >> he answers a question. >> he answers a question like, that's it. he's saying, come on, come on. >> gay marriage. i love people. >> that was vice president joe biden. a source from the vice president's office tells nbc news that the interjection by a staff member was made because of the time limit, not because of the line of questioning. that sounds like hillary clinton's campaign. meanwhile, hillary clinton is opening up a double-digit lead -- they're doing their jobs -- double-digit lead in new

york one week out from the primary. >> they're going to change the world, because they're doing their jobs. all the little millennials with narrow shoulders and seven fantasy football league games. >> it's kind of a good commercial. >> it is. new nbc news "wall street journal" poll shows what, mika. >> hillary clinton ahead of bernie sanders by 14 points. >> there is a new monmouth university poll that has her up 12, 51-39. hillary is strong in new york. should be fine, right? >> what's happened here? mark halperin, just a week ago we were told that this was going to be a close race. bernie was like charging. >> yeah. >> et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. every poll i have seen shows it's really all going hillary's way and she could put him away here. >> i think he really squandered his wisconsin win and the momentum coming out of wisconsin in a variety of ways. and this -- it's her home state.

>> what did he do wrong? i thought he was pretty aggressive, pretty good. >> he spent three days challenging her on whether she was qualified to be president when, for all the things -- all the arguments he has trying to say that she's not qualified, probably is the one who is going to have a least receptivity in a state where she represented. she and her husband have campaigned very hard here. they've not taken the state for granted. i don't think it's over. >> crowds are massive. >> he has a chance. but she is above 50 and working hard. she understands where the votes are in the state. >> she is strong in the polls. having said that, new numbers come as sanders continues to draw massive crowds across the state. yesterday he spoke to about 5,000 people in binghamton, 6,000 in albany, 8,000 in buffalo. at each event the senator put new emphasis on environmental issues, calling for a nationwide ban on fracking, while criticizing clinton for her record on the environment.

>> on this issue of fracking, secretary clinton and i have some very strong differences of opinion. secretary clinton's role in fracking when she was secretary of state is not a good record. secretary clinton and her state department worked to export fracking throughout the world, to reward companies like chevron, halliburton, exxon mobile and conoco phillips. in my view that's unacceptable. >> i have noticed that senator sanders has had trouble answering questions about his core issue, namely, dealing with the banks. he has had trouble answering foreign policy questions. and so i look forward to a debate that is in new york with people asking the kind of questions that new yorkers ask. >> when challenged on his gun

stances, he frequently says, well, you know, i represent vermont. it's a small, rural state. we have no gun laws. here is what i want you to know. most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in new york come from out of state. and the state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in new york come from vermont. >> i think hillary is -- you take the -- the answers -- those two clips right there, i think that's hillary clinton at her best. >> yeah. and a lot of people -- you know, i -- we watch her speeches on the nights of the primaries live, and sometimes they sound -- you know, that's an intense environment. those are huge crowds. i think that she is so policy focused that she is so effective

in powerful in these settings. she seems to have sort of -- i don't know. she has pulled back a little bit. that -- that attack on the guns is so, you know, i got chills. this is the third time i have heard it. and you know, i think when she makes an argument like that in sort of a more serious continue it's deadly. >> it's the power of really good delivery. >> yes, really. >> i think, as a lot of candidates have learned along the way and some of them actually learn, and some of them don't, you know, there are times you have to -- and i remember, i learned this on book tours, where you're like, put the mike closer to your mouth. you have to learn exactly how it's supposed to sound, and sometimes you have to translate how you think it's sounding to how it really sounds. in a huge room you can actually talk very quietly and you're far more effective. >> yes. >> it's a gender thing, right? bernie sanders barely has a voice and he screeches and there is never any comment. i think he sounds like he's about to lose it. but we never talk about it.

she -- you notice how she is delivering. just -- >> because e's made significant changes. >> yes. and she is sort of trying out different, i think, approaches. >> bernie sanders hasn't needed to, nor has donald trump. >> don't under estimate she's campaigning in a state she knows and feels she has a feel for. bernie sanders might have been from brooklyn originally but she comes from new york. >> won two times here. >> when you look at the clip, i think that was her at her best. >> me too. >> well executed. she was in the pocket. >> the tone and the voice level. i agree with everything combined with the power of the message. >> right. >> living in new york city and new york state, if you learn that the majority of guns that find their way into new york that are used to commit criminal and violent and homicidal acts come from the state of vermont, that's a powerful -- that's a question that you would imagine you're going to hear thursday night and how senator sanders responds to that. i do agree with mark.

he's gotten off message a bit. i'm for hillary clinton but he has gotten off message a bit accusing her of being unqualified. accusing her and her husband of tactics. this is a state where she is very popular. i don't see the numbers changing. they might fluctuate but i see her winning. >> still, he has huge crowds. >> huge crowds. >> wait till the new york city crowds come. >> nick confessore, the crowds all across upstate new york, crazy. 5,000 people in binghamton? they haven't had 5,000 people in binghamton at an event since kiss was there in '77. i know about binghamton. >> he should not be hanging out in brooklyn trying to beat her with the black and brown voters in brooklyn and manhattan. his bread basket will be the places that voted against andrew cuomo in the 2014 primary for governor. he should be upstate in the hudson valley, the center of the anti-fracking movement.

>> wow! look at those crowds! >> he ought to be upstate in the college towns, in the manufacturing loss places like buffalo and syracuse. he can do well and run his numbers up if he is strategic in those places. he can't beat her in brooklyn and glen cove. >> those are massive crowds! >> i would much rather win with the majority of unenthusiastic voters than lose with a group of highly enthusiastic voters. >> he's won how many in a row, six, seven, eight? he's doing pretty well with the enthusiastic voters. stakes are very high. >> he has gotten better in the debates but he has not decisively beaten her in the dubt. thursday could -- >> i don't know if that's going to happen. she is really good. >> yeah. >> usually when you push for a debate, that's -- i just never think it works out. >> always turns out bad. >> karma.

remember the story we did yesterday on the importance of sort of door-to-door campaigning? >> yes. yes! we talked for a long time. >> it's more effective if you have a police officer handing you a ticket saying, i don't want to give you this ticket, but mayor de blasio is making us gr give you these tickets. i don't live in new york city but if i did, i wouldn't vote for him. the cops are handing out summons saying, we don't want to do this but mayor de blasio is making us. >> did they do that when they were forced to stop and frisk people inappropriately? this is from mayor -- >> he is handing out tickets that say i don't want to give you this ticket. the bottom line is, there is still a great divide between the mayor's office and the cops, who are, again -- certainly by the people who are voting in this

town for whoever the next mayor is, what the cops think does make a difference to a lot of people. >> uh-huh. all right. >> it's interesting. >> that's true. coming up. how is this for microtargeting. seven battle ground counties could pick the next president. >> my goodness. >> conservative author ed morrissey is here -- >> does he tell us the counties? maybe he will. there they are, joe. his republican road map to winning back the white house. >> big in wake county. they love you there. where is that?

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still ahead. is running the rnc starting to get to reince priebus? >> oh, no. >> man, who would have written -- people are going to write history books about what's going on. >> well, i -- i haven't started pouring bailey's in my cereal yet, but i have certainly considered it. >> oh, boy. there is still time. the weekly standard's bill crystal and jonathan capehart join us for the must-read opinion pages. >> he might go straight to heroin. >> i think he will. a little meth. ♪

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♪ all right. joining us now, editor of the weekly standard bill crystal and from the "washington post" and msnbc contributor, jonathan capehart. >> look at this cover. it's called "up in the air". >> i can't look at it. >> i like the sub head, "hard landing for gop ahead." >> they're going to have a hard time. >> well, the race is up in the hour. in the first half hour -- >> i think that's fair. >> up in the air. >> quit whining. i am trying to help you sell magazines. >> i forgot to come on and do the ritual bowing to donald trump. >>et me do this. donald trump, 37% of the vote. >> forgive me, bill crystal, for trying to sell three of your magazines! i won't be so nice next time! >> 54% of the votes in the poll in new york. let's give up.

let's give up. >> oh look! what a shock! look what they have. oh! you know what? they've had to work on that graphic all night because they haven't been doing that for nine straight months. when bill crystal comes on and makes one stupid prediction after another and is always wrong. if you'd like to start all over again and try to have me sell your magazine or do you want to come on and whine. >> i'll whine. thank you for selling the magazine. i appreciate it. for nine straight months donald trump has been -- >> it's interesting. it says "hard landing for the gop." what do you mean? >> for nine months donald trump has not been qualified for the presidency. luckily we'll recruit the republican independent candidate if we have to. >> who is that? >> i don't know, actually. i put on a tie when i spoke at the hoover dinner. i love jim and i said, you know,

if it's trump versus sanders or clinton that's unacceptable and we'll recruit jim to be the independent candidate. he shouted from the audience, "no way." i don't know. >> let's talk about what's wrong with this process. you get people locked in by march, april, may, june. then let's say trump nails it down -- maybe not nail it down until the end of june. then everybody tells us, it's too late because you have to decide in march if you're going to run as an independent. that seems to be screwed up in a sense. how do you get around the calendar? we always bump up against the march deadline which should actually be in july. >> or august. >> two things. i'm happy to keep hope alive for ted cruz. i know this is a center of ted cruz fans here on "morning joe." >> mika is a big fan. >> mika is a big fan. i think cruz has a chance. if it turns out to be donald trump, two states have early

deadlines. in the '80s early states were challenged in court for disadvantaging their voters by not letting people on the ballot. >> the march deadline could be phony? >> could be. you could go to court in texas and north carolina. those are the only states that are really early. john anderson, who had lost to reagan said i want to run as an independent. he got on the ballot. >> what if trump nails it down after california. you're looking at somebody who is saying, okay, by the middle to the end of june i want to get on all 52 ballots. >> you need to begin really -- if trump wins this big in new york as you're confident he's going to. if he wins the next week. >> it's just the polls but go ahead. >> it is just the polls. he may win new york, obviously, probably will. do well the next week. if he doesn't win -- if he wins

indiana it would be hard to stop him. i don't know if jim wants to run. i don't know if john kelly wants to run or a more conventional politician wants to run. people are a little frozen because they don't want to undercut ted cruz who has a good chance, i think, a decent chance. >> of stopping him. >> one in three chance of stopping him. >> can i ask you about ted cruz? people we both respect have been pretty open about saying cruz loses but there is dignity in losing with cruz because he adheres to our republican principles. on intelligence matters, "wall street journal" took him to task. do you even think that cynical approach and analysis is true? you feel good about him representing our party on national security? >> he makes a point of saying he doesn't agree with the neo cons who want to go to war too much and he's in between john mccain. i think he'd be a great commander in chief.

she is a weak candidate. he'd start off as a slight underdog but not like donald trump. i would have no problem defending ted cruz. i think candidates would have -- he is more conservative than perhaps the ideal republican nominee is from an electoral point of view. but he is not like donald trump. >> i'm not sure about that. didn't he shut down the government? >> let's talk about the democrats. >> is that a rhetorical question? >> no. it's weird. people are propping up ted cruz, they're propping up somebody they don't actually like. they're just propping him up because they don't like trump. they don't like him and he may not be responsible either. >> erthey're propping him up long enough to take it away for him. he is a stand-in. >> ted, can you hold this for a minute. >> let's talk about the democrats. the "l.a. times." it will take a miracle for bernie sanders to beat hillary clinton and that's okay.

bernie sanders can still win the democratic presidential nomination but it will take a miracle. several miracles. that's not a conspiracy, it's ari okay. from the beginning of his run sanders has had two goals in mind. one was to become the democratic nominee. the other was to build a grass-roots movement that could bring about a political revolution from the left. sanders and his supporters have not given up on the first goal but they're also running his campaign with the second, longer-term goal firmly in mind, even if their candidate falls short in the next few primaries, sanders supporters shouldn't give up because the final score will matter, not only for this presidential campaign but the next one. >> jonathan capehart. chime in on that one. >> so i agree with what's written there. the thing is, yes, senator sanders is building a grass-roots movement. they are energized.

they're giving him money hand over fist. he is in -- he is still nipping at hillary clinton's heels for this nomination. but the only thing i would quibble with is, yes, they'll make a presence felt in 2016. yes, it will set up this grass-roots movement for 2020. but for this grass-roots movement to have any real power, for this grass-roots movement to show that it has staying power after senator sanders is no longer running for president they have to show up at the mid-term elections in 2018. i think that was one of the problems with the political revolution built up by then-senator barack obama. after he became president, the folks who showed up in 2008 didn't show up in 2010. the folks who showed up in 2012 to re-elect him didn't show up in 2014 in the mid-term elections. so senator sanders is going to have to ensure that those folks

who show up at the polls now show up at the mid-term elections for the grass roots movement to live. >> that's a heavy lift. barack obama couldn't do it in 2010. >> how do you get those crowds to show up at the polls today. i think they will. trump, what he means to the republican party, and even if he doesn't win the nomination, and i -- i went back -- i am struck by -- i'm sure you have written about this -- struck by the fact that, though you have been as tough on trump as you have been and suggested he couldn't do well, you actually two years ago started saying, we did it back when we used to agree on things, that a -- that a republican that's going to win nationally has to be conservative, has to be populist. we've always talked about the importance of populism in conservative politics. do you think, if trump doesn't

win, that that may be a, for you, one of the positive legacies of trump-ism, that we will have candidates that stop just talking about, you know, cutting corporate tax rates and going to a.e.i. and delivering speeches on carried interest and instead start going, okay, wait a second, what about those people who make $45,000 a year that live in central pennsylvania that can't afford even to have their kids to go to community college. how do we get them to vote republican again. >> to be fair, i've been to a lot of a.i.e. meetings and they have a lot of economists doing work on these issues. one of the tragedies of trump -- i don't know if that's too strong of a word -- is that he's taken what is an understandable and in some ways healthy populist impulse, and i think he is the vehicle for it now. i don't think he is a good vehicle and i don't think he should be president but it's

very important to make clear that defeating trump and opposing trump doesn't mean defending every established republican orthodoxy. joe, you were an underdog candidate in '94. you defeated wealthier and older opponents. you should keep hope alive. in the spirit of joe scarborough, ted cruz is the joe scarborough of 2016. >> listen, my friends -- i want to tell you, for a parting gift instead of rice a'roni we'll have a bar of soap for you to rinse your mouth out for comparing me to ted cruz. the republican establishment in washington, d.c., get out of your think tanks and figure out why all of these people are voting for a candidate that the establishment loathes. >> and develop sound policies to address these problems, not -- sanders sends a message. you would be foolish to look at this campaign and think, gee,

the public is happy with the established leaders. wasn't this supposed to be a bush-clinton coronation? >> bill kristol, thank you very much. jonathan capehart, stay with us. >> are you tired? did he do "way too early" again? he must be tired. >> this is a great cover, by the way. this is an important read. >> kind of reminds me of clowns. >> you could read the articles too. >> i am scared of clowns. >> i like the graphics. >> i am scared of mimes. >> i don't like mimes. all right. did donald trump realize he has a delegate problem too late? chris cillizza joins us. we'll be right back.

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still to come this morning on the show, we think it's our first one-name guest here on "morning joe." >> is it? bono joins the conversation. >> i think so. >> trying to think. >> there is iman. >> cher watches. she hasn't been on. >> madonna. >> she does frownie faces. she doesn't like me. she likes you. >> jeter. brady. >> one names. joe. >> jeter has a first name. >> you're cute. >> follow the rules. >> mr. bono. senator rand paul joins the conversation. what the former presidential candidate has to say about the prospect of a contested convention. and we'll go live to syracuse, new york, where bernie sanders

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♪ this summer, an all-american idealist faces off against a diabolical billionaire. >> the american dream is an american nightmare. >> the american dream is dead. >> big money buys the elections. >> i'm really rich. >> our campaign does not have a super pac. >> i am in for about $35 million right now. >> can i finish, please? >> excuse me.

>> excuse me. i'm talking. >> bing, bing. >> bong, bong. bing, bing. [ laughter ] >> america civil war. >> can somebody attack me, please. [ laughter ] >> that was really funny. welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday, april 12th. top of the hour. with us we have former communications director for president george w. bush nicolle wallace. former democratic congressman harold ford jr. steve schmidt, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halper halperin. editor of the fix at the "washington post," chris cillizza. good to have you all on board. >> let's talk about the state of the race. steve, let's start on the democratic side. a lot of momentum going bernie sanders' way. why? he's won eight out of nine contests. he comes to new york.

people think he'll push hillary there. but a couple of polls say she seems to be moving away. what's happening? >> she seems to have a commanding lead in new york and he is going to have to win in new york. it doesn't look like he is poised to win in the state. no matter how many states he wins in a row at the end of the day she has a very significant delegate lead and she has been on the precipice of being the presumptive nominee for some time. though she is a weak candidate. >> mika found this. there is a story every day, that donald trump is not actively making news that people can write -- this is -- a couple days ago it was his foreign policy inaccuracies that would challenge his campaign. now the "new york times" is saying more than half the spending -- record spending on advertising, negative, has been focused towards donald trump. and it says, a barrage that

threatens to undermine his candidacy. there seems to be -- again, there is a story now every day about something new that is threatening donald trump's candidacy. we heard all the breathless commentary after wisconsin that trump had finally gone a bridge too far. this time it was it. i will be polite and not name all the editorial writers whose editorials i read the day after wisconsin saying that because i am a gentleman. but you read them too. they just keep underestimating the voters' connection with this guy. >> they do. look, this republican contest you can look ahead. this is all going to come down to the great state of california. the state that was the home of richard nixon, of ronald reagan. california, which is a winner-take-all by congressional district. 53 congressional districts. you have some in that state. nancy pelosi's, maxine waters', with very few republicans, the state we got our start in

politically. so the campaign that's going to be organized to deal with that is going to be the campaign that's going to do well in california, and donald trump does not have a path to 1,237 unless he does very, very well in california. >> california. >> so it seems that paul manafort has arrived just in time for a pretty disorganized campaign. >> can he do that? >> well, look, he -- we're at -- we're in the -- you know, the california primary is in june. so he does have time to get organized, to get going. >> do you know him? >> i don't know him well but, look, he is competent. >> is he? okay. >> one of the issues i think that donald trump has in this race is that, you know, he has come to the campaign with two propositions in addition to his message. the first one was, i'm going to be competent. >> right. >> and that we live in this era of complete and total government incompetence. so, if his campaign is incompetent, very hard for him to sell that. >> undercuts that message.

>> the second part of it is this. i am a deal guy. i'm going to get good deals for america. so coming into wisconsin he was right on the edge of sealing the deal, of becoming the republican nominee. >> right. >> right at the one yard line he has blown up the deal. now we are where we are in this. so he can't be running an incompetent campaign, a, and also be the guy that, at the edge of getting the deal done, blows the real. >> right. >> and have a message that's congruent, have a campaign that's congruent with the message that he's been running. >> you look at ted cruz. that campaign is really on it. i mean, they really are complete and effective and organized. >> let's look at, though, donald trump, appears to be heading for his first majority victory one week from today. >> the wall street journal/marist poll finding him ahead at 54%. trump took his campaign to

albany last night insiden a arena with a capacity for 17,000 people, about 75% full. >> wow. >> after losing dozens of delegates to ted cruz through local party meetings and the state convention, donald trump railed against the delegate process. >> if i go to the voters of colorado, we win colorado. so, it's a crooked, crooked system. you know, we think about democracy, and we think about our country. let me tell you a little secret as far as our country is concerned. we have a democracy, but we've got to keep our democracy, and we're going to do that. and it's very interesting. it's a very sick system, and i'll tell you what. maybe, in addition to winning, maybe we'll clean up the system so that in future years we can have an honest contest, we might be able to clean up this dirty, rotten, disgusting system. >> we're all laughing because

that is -- that is the message. >> he doesn't mince words, does he? >> you want a message that resonates in 2016, a dirty, rotten, stinkin' system. >> bam! >> may not have been the words poll tested and market-driven from a focus group. >> he doesn't need to. >> but they would be the four or five that i would use if i were out on the campaign trail now. that is exactly what americans think, and he's connecting. my god, the crowds that he's getting and bernie is getting, it's just crazy. >> you know, his great gift, i think, in the race -- i think a lot of people -- well, we know a lot of people have and continue to underestimate him. i think that is both dumb and takes away a lot of things that he deserves credit for, one of which is he is remarkably able to understand the mood of both people in the room and people in the broader republican party and channel it in an effective way. he continues to be able to do that. here is what -- >> look at that crowd. >> here is what you need to do

if you're donald trump. you need to do what you played in albany last night. you need to continue to rail against the corrupt, broken system. they're trying to take it from me. this is unfair. that's what the people who are for you want to hear. you also do need to play the inside game. and i think he has finally realized that. it doesn't matter how much you talk about how colorado has taken it from you if ted cruz walks away with 34 delegates and you get none, it's bad. so he's brought in manafort. you need to do both. donald trump ran an insurgency. he got to the front of the field. the problem is it's the dog who has caught the car in some ways. now he has to manage being the frontrunner. manage a coalition to get him to 1,237. manafort is the guy i think he believes can do that. donald trump will not fundamentally change his message. he shouldn't. but you need the behind the scenes guy playing the game as the rules are currently written.

>> as steve schmidt says, harold ford, you can't call everybody in washington stupid and incompetent and then be outmaneuvered by stupid, incompetent people. what does that say about you? >> i think this line of argument, to echo a point made this morning of the system being corrupt and rigged, if you think local newspapers across the country -- if indeed there is a headline from trump's message over the last few days it's that the system is rigged and corrupt. that will resonate far more than whining isn't winning or whatever cruz was saying. ted cruz also reminds me of when marco rubio got on the trail and started talking about donald trump's hands after the debate. it just seemed to go nowhere. didn't seem to fit with him. it will be interesting to see how it plays out with cruz. i am curious in this new era off presidential politics, can anyone emerge from their

primary -- this is a perspective question but going forward, with the way the primaries and caucuses are arranged, the way the tv coverage starts early, can you emerge from the primary with a positive, favorable over your unfavorable. when the candidates are one on one, i think mrs. clinton's numbers will go up. a broader question is, in this new era how can you survive a primary with the things that are said over and over again and come out with some kind of -- >> you can't. >> john kasich may be the only one but the focus has not been on him as much as it's been on the other candidates. >> it's been a tough one. hillary had some challenges going into it, she got hit. she has been hit non-stop. >> the questions around the emails. >> the clinton money stuff. that rolled off. after that rolled off, the email stuff and the fbi investigation. i don't know how her numbers aren't any worse than they are right now. and trump -- trump came in also with high negatives too. that's kind of how they started this thing.

>> let's get mark halperin in here. the new polling shows donald trump has an uphill climb in the general election starting amongst a stead fast republican demographic. the bloomberg politics/purple slice only poll finds 20% of married women have a favorable opinion of him. 70% have an unfavable. in a head-to-head matchup with hillary clinton trump loses, married women. 12 points. ted cruz ties clinton, 43%, even. this after 2012 republican nominee mitt romney won married women over president obama by 7 points, 53 to 46. a voting bloc that every republican presidential candidate has won since 1996, according to gallup. mark. >> mark halperin, for as long as i have been following politics, i have been told and figured out that single women, more likely to vote for the democratic candidate, and married women more likely to vote for the

republican candidate. if donald trump has one area that he needs to work on as he moves towards the general election, this would be it. >> yeah. these slice polls that we're doing with purple strategies look at different parts of the electorate. this is one where trump or any republican nominee is going to have to do better. there are lots of variables in a general election. for electoral college, demographics. if the republican nominee does not win married women, he or she will lose the race. this is an area where trump has a big deficit right now. as a matter of static analysis of where we are. if he is looking to say how do i simultaneously win the nomination and look towards the general, he has to do better with married women and the question is on what issues can he do it? there are some issues in this poll, nicolle, where he does do better than the democrats and republicans but overall, big deficit. >> women are the deciders, right? you win or lose the national race as a republican based on

how much you shrink the gender gap between men and wimp. bush won in '04 because we were concerned about national security after 9/11. the opportunity for trump, if i had to sort of visa thadvise th. this group responded to some of his articulations of strength. the projection of strength. when you talk about how much trump has squandered some of these opportunities, it's not, you know, to insult him. it's so sort of bemoan the missed opportunity. and if he could home in and develop some expertise around national security, this group is, i think, available to him. >> well, now to the democrats where hillary clinton is opening up a double-digit lead in new york. one week out from the primary, our new nbc news/wall street journal/marist poll shows clinton ahead of bernie sanders by 14 points, 55-41. a new monmouth university poll has her up 12, 51-39.

the new numbers come as sanders continues to draw massive crowds across the state. yesterday he spoke to about 5,000 people in binghamton. 6,000 people in albany, 8,000 people in buffalo. those are big crowds. >> those are massive crowds. >> i can't even get over it. >> steve schmidt, do you believe the numbers bernie brings out? >> they're enormous crowds. there is a lot of enthusiasm for the candidacy, a lot of enthusiasm for the message, the leftward drift of the democratic party away from clinton-ism of the '90s to where we are today. at the end of the day, if he doesn't win the state of new york, really hard to see what his rationale is to be the democratic nominee. >> yeah. >> at the end of the day, again, it's the delegates that matter. he is significantly behind her in the delegate count. >> joining us now from syracuse, new york, msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt, who is covering the sanders campaign.

does the campaign think they can turn those crowds into actual votes? >> mika, good morning. the reality here is that new york is the crucible for bernie sanders and for his campaign. the crowds are part of that. we're going to see even -- or likely going to see even bigger crowds over the weekend when he is finally holding these three huge rallies we have been talking about, one in washington square park, one in prospect park in brooklyn and then one on monday in queens. but the reality here is that bernie sanders is under more pressure than he's ever been before. it's a crucible for him as a candidate. people who have never run for president before, there is a reason why those candidates who have done it once say, oh, now i understand things. i didn't before. and bernie sanders is now in that position. and so is his campaign. he still has a very tight-knit group of advisers around him. it hasn't expanded necessarily to the degree that you might expect for a campaign that's gotten this big, gone this far, mounted this significant of a

challenge. so i think over the next couple of days it's going to be important to watch how they handle the various challenges, not least of which is this trip he has upcoming to italy to go visit vatcican city which will take him out of new york for two days at the height of this. >> not sure that's a good call. all right. kasie hunt, thank you very much. >> it won't be quite as cold as it is in february. and you don't have to fly from italy. chris cillizza and steve schmidt stay with us. rand paul joins us. we talk politics and his moving new book about his son. later, filmaker ken burns cuts through the mythology surrounding jackie robinson with honest insights from the people who knew him best. >> we went to the back of the bus. and when it got dark i started to cry.

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polls will be phenomenal when they start coming out. once i get rid of the first two and we can focus on whoever the enemy is. again, it's a rigged deal, so it's probably going to be hillary. i don't think the emails will take her down because she is being protected by the democrats. it would take anybody else down, but it's not going to take her down because she is being protected. but she is going to have to live with that when she runs because everybody knows that she is guilty as hell, okay. everybody. her whole life has been a big, fat, beautiful lie. it's been a terrible, terrible lie. everything about her is a lie. >> okay. a theme emerges. >> wow! >> i guess you can move that from ted to hillary.

>> joining us now, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson who has been covering the cruz campaign. also columnist with the national journal ron fournier, we'll get to his amazing new book in a moment. first, let's talk politics. that was rough. i didn't see it until just now. >> very rough. >> he tends to be going there, i guess. but that brand is for ted. and ted cruz is fighting back calling donald trump a whiner. >> he is calling him a whiner. his supporters are calling him a whiern. you heard the chants at his rally in california last night. the crowd saying whining, not winning. cruz had a crack about how, in california whine is best served with cheese. they're trying to make the argument that donald trump is complaining about the rules and doesn't understand them. a party insider said to me that it became clear that donald trump realized he didn't understand the process when he hired paul manafort to help out

with the system trump has been railing against. our analysis shows he is the one benefiting right now from the way the rules work. but he is frustrated that cruz goes to a place like colorado and is able to clean up. that's why you're seeing cruz with his own new line of attack against trump, sort of mocking him for being so fed up with the system. >> whether it's donald on the republican side as the insurgent or bernie on the democratic side as the insurgent. they can both talk about the rigged system and people absolutely love it. we were talking yesterday about the democratic side. bernie wins 66-44 in wyoming and hillary walks away with more delegates. >> is there a more powerful message in politics today than that the system is rigged. donald trump used, for example, the bankruptcy laws, pushed them every possible way he could to his advantage to stick it to creditors and to people who he owed money to. the fact that he is whining about the delegates. he it whining.

put on your big-boy pants. but politically it's a great message. >> look at what happened in wyoming, again. bernie wins by what most consider a land slide. then you put up the delegate count and hillary clinton wins in delegates. one person, one vote? it -- doesn't seem to work that way. >> it's a club. it's a private club, it's not the constitution. these are the rules that the party has in place. they do protect whoever is the establishment candidate. bernie could turn it on its head by winning a lot of states by a lot and the superdelegates are politicians. they'll want to peel away from hillary clinton. i think, though, to get to your broader point, the public realizes that both parties are really a mess and both parties don't address their concerns and play by a set of rules that they have to play by in their lives. so both parties should look at a different set of nominating rules. and they have changed over time. there was a time when we didn't have primaries.

we only had smoke-filled rooms. the public is saying we don't want this anymore. >> reince priebus is tweeting about his party and talking about, hey, the rules are the rules. these were in place for months. this is nothing new. this is how it works. the issue is the message. talk about a powerful message to voters. if you're talking about rules and process and delegates, it's tough to really make that visceral connection. or it can be tough to people who want to hear about railing against the system and fighting against -- >> so people may like the message that trump has about the rules, but, chris cillizza, will it change the numbers? >> no. that's the same problem that bernie sanders has, which is bernie sanders can say, look, we've won seven out of the last eight states. every state that we spend time in, we win. but joe made the right point. look at wyoming. this is not -- i think it's hard -- it is difficult to reconcile from the outside the idea that you can win as many states in a row as bernie sanders has won, including a big

state like wisconsin, and yet you are still behind by as much as he is. same thing with donald trump. it's a good message, but the mechanics of the race are the mechanics of the race. you can say they're not democrat democratic. they need to change. that's all fine. you can fight that fight when you're the president. but until you're elected as the president you have to play by the rules as written. >> at the end of the day it's not unlike boxing. if you want to beat the champ, you have to knock them out. you're not going to beat the champ on a decision. for trump, whose campaign has been predicated on this message of strength, he doesn't wear the mantel of victim particularly well. these rules are the rules. they're the rules. this didn't just come on down yesterday. this was known. it was apparent. and if you're running a campaign where part of your message is on competence, you have to have a campaign that can navigate the rules. so now i think he has someone on top of the campaign that is

capable of understanding the rules, capable of navigating them and capable of moving the campaign forward. but this is an important notion here. >> steve smithchmidt, hallie jackson. chris cillizza, thank you. ron fournier, stay with us. coming up, we'll talk about your new book. also ahead. senator rand paul and bono. stay with us. ♪ for a limited time, you can get a great deal on this passat. wow, it looks really good... volkswagen believes safety is very important... so all eleven models come standard with an intelligent crash response system... hmm. ...seven stability-enhancing systems... hmmm... ...and equipment for two child seats. hmmm... for those who take safety seriously. like we do. the volkswagen safety in numbers event... is happening now! get a $1,250 volkswagen reward card and 0% apr on new 2016 passat models.

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in my whacky head i was assuming the president was saying love him despite his idiosyncrasies, despite the fact that he's different. through the course of the book i come to the realization that i love this boy because of what makes him different. >> the best thing about this book is now i'm famous. [ laughing ] >> you've been waiting this whole interview to do that, haven't you? >> i have been waiting all day. i am not taking these off! >> that was ron fournier alongside his ton tyler, reflecting on a piece of advice handed down directly from president george w. bush. love that boy! it's the title of ron's powerful new book "love that boy." what two presidents, eight road trips and my son taught me about a parent's expectations. it stems from his moving 2012

cover story in national journal about how he learned to accept tyler's asperger's syndrome. ron joins us now on your day one of this book being available to the public. it's incredible! >> congratulations. >> how did you do it? >> my wife made me. >> your wife made you? >> she kept putting my butt in the seat and telling me not to come out of the room until i had 500 words done. lori is the hero of this book. >> you talk about so many things in this book. it's such a moving book. the bottom line, you talk about the importance of going on this long journey and learning at the end to love your child for what he is -- >> yeah. >> -- not for what you want or expect him to be. >> i had this vision, like a lot of dads do, of the idealized son. he was going to be a jock. we'd bond over sports. i had a great relationship with my father, and it was all based around sports. so i wasn't a pushy dad as far as sports, but it was what i wanted, it was what i thought he

should be so that we could connect. he didn't like sports. still doesn't like sports. turn out, as part of his condition, he is not very good at sports. so taking these road trips, spending a lot of time with him, actually doing a little self-reflection, i realized, okay, i don't have my idealized son but son of a gun i have an ideal son and help him to be the best he can possibly be. >> and what was the process? >> it started when he was diagnosed when he was 12. we were walking out of the doctor's office and lori, my wife says, it's time to step up. spend more time with him. i want you to get on the road with him and start bonding with him so he could start learning things that we felt were uncomfortable to him but we found out in the diagnosis were unnatural. shaking hands, looking in the eye. modulating his voice. sitting in the car, tears coming down her eyes, she said you're

going to go to presidential sites because tyler fixation. they all have fixations. get out, get to know him and help him. >> i read that you gave me a gallie, and i cried through the whole thing. talk about fatherhood. i feel like us moms and working moms, there are a lot of conversations that we can tap into about how hard that is, but you have sort of started a conversation about fatherhood especially this -- fathering your son specifically. can you talk about that and the kinds of people you meet and the kinds of things people share. because that conversation is not happening in the public the way the motherhood conversation is. >> i am starting to realize it's not even happening in private. dads, we tend to be -- men tend to keep their feelings in. you know, you don't want to be seen as someone who cries. you don't want to be seen as somebody who talks about anything other than making profit or your latest promotion or the big game that's on

sunday. part of what's been interesting for me, since doing the magazine piece, is i have gone to a lot of dad's groups. generally around autism, at schools and centers trying to get fathers more involved in their kids' lives and just getting them around a beer or around a cup of coffee and talking about what it's like being a father today, how the changing role of women in society has forced us to step up. and we do. we need to step up and be more involved in our kids' lives. >> president george w. bush and his impact obviously on the title but also --as just reading the scene where he is in -- your son is in the oval office and he's asking about the dog. >> yeah. >> and how the president reacted. how kind he was. >> both president clinton and bush were very gracious. and i go into detail. that's one of my favorite scenes, when tyler was only 5 i was leaving the white house, part of the tradition at the white house is the president says good-bye to the correspondents. in 2005 we have a quick meeting in the oval office to say

good-bye. tyler comes in, and all he can talk about is barney the dog, president bush's dog. going a mile a minute. he starts talking about roosevelt's dog and knows more about roosevelt's dog than probably roosevelt knew. i got the feeling. >> yeah. >> he's embarrassing -- no. he's embarrassing me. i think president bush for someone who has criticized fought not feeling the country's pain. sure is good in a room. he grabbed me by the hand on the way out and looked me in the eyes as a presidential directive and said "love that boy." at the time i was thinking i have to love him because he's quirky. he wasn't diagnosed then. over ten years i realized i'm going to love him because that's what makes him different. >> nicolle is tearing up again. >> i have read that three times. he was like that.

and parented whood was one of t national examples he set. >> he is incredibly intuitive. i think we've had three examples of very good fathers. >> the book is "love that boy." ron fournier, thank you for sharing it with us. >> ron, thanks. come back. and good luck. >> thank you. up next, we'll ask senator rand paul a question he has been waiting his entire political career to answer. donald trump or ted cruz. >> oh, oh. >> aw. >> you're putting him in pain now. >> he's going to leave. the senator from kentucky joins us live, straight ahead. (laughing) there's nothing like making their day. except making sure their tomorrow is taken care of too.

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to stop pain where it starts. make it happen with motrin liquid gels. joining us now, former republican presidential candidate senator rand paul of kentucky. >> very exciting. >> good morning. >> he's trying to figure out, am i going to be a senator in the age of trump or the age of cruz. >> yeah, but are those the only choices? >> no. you also have hillary.

>> you can vote for hillary. >> i thought you fill in the blank as well, right? there's always fill in the blank. >> i think there is a david ignatius piece in "the post" this morning that names other people? bill kristol was talking about other people. >> you have been all across your state. how many, 50, 55 town hall meetings. what are you seeing and hearing out there? >> i think the people are greatly disconnected and unhappy with washington. two weeks ago i tried to block the sale -- the subsidized sale for taxpayers pay for f-16s for pakistan. nobody in my state is for that. we have things at home that need to be fixed. roads repaired. we sent $15 billion to pakistan and they basically laugh and cash our check and they don't change their behavior. they persecute christians. they are -- have imprisoned the guy who helped get bin laden. so people at home don't understand us sending that money

overseas when we have problems in kentucky. >> what about donald trump? do you have people coming up to you, trump supporters, saying what does the party not get, or do you have other people saying this guy is going to destroy our party? how do you deal with the divisive nature of that type of support? >> i know it's talked about quite frequently on the news but only occasionally people ask me who i am endorsing. >> i can tell you wherever i go. northwest florida or west side of manhattan. that's all people want to ask me about. is he a threat to america? >> i guess but what we hear a lot of times is there are local issues. for example, the big topic for the last couple of weeks in kentucky is hillary clinton saying that we are going to put coal miners out of business. >> right. >> we have 10,000 coal miners out of work in kentucky. when hillary clinton says i think very brazenly that she is going to put more of them out of business, that upsets people in kentucky. some issues are more local than national. >> what you might hear at a town

hall meeting. >> what do you think about the rules by which your party selects a nominee which are getting a lot of scrutiny now. are they fair? do they give voters a fair enough voice. >> i hear people saying they're rigged. they're not rigged but they're biased. intentionally so. it's done somewhat in the open but they're biased in favor of the establishment. for example, in 2012 when my dad was running they made a special rule that said you can't be nominated unless you win eight states. then they didn't count his votes. interestingly, now, if you talk to all of the republican establishment, they're saying, oh, yeah, your votes can be counted. this is a big deal because, think about it. kasich's votes cannot be counted. under rule 40-b they should not be counted. >> because he hasn't won eight states. >> ron paul, they were not counted in 2012. you see the clips. iowa votes. 28 votes forr ron paul.

28 votes for mitt romney. they didn't announce or repeat. they repeated the votes didn't go to him but this year they want the opposite. is that a fair interpretation of the rules? when you think about it, both cruz and trump have a great deal of incentive not to let anybody else have votes. that's what the rules currently state. however, 110 people are going to be very important. that's the rules committee. they're going to decide what the rules are. i think you want to see a contentious room, it's going to be those 110 people. >> should there be a broad-based effort to change it so next cycle the voters have more of a say? >> it's always the people trying to change the rules to their advantage. we're never entirely sure of who the establishment is. we're wary always of who they are. every election changes and i'm not so sure you can predict the advantage for 2020 that comes out of the rules. they tried to exclude my father in 2012, and now it's backfiring on some people who would like to

see kasich or rubio. my understanding of the rules is rubio and kasich cannot have votes counted. people can say they're for them on the first ballot but they won't count. the question is the third and fourth ballot. people saying they can come back. my understanding is the rules say the votes don't count. >> senator, republicans that end up winning their presidential nomination have a long and proud history of losing, losing first, being humiliated, going back home, learning lessons and coming back. i'm not saying -- >> i'm wondering who we're talking about. >> we're talking about -- we're talking about reagan. we're talking about nixon. we're talking about dole. we're talking about mccain. we're talking about just about every republican that ended up winning the nomination, and they won because they learned something in their loss. and saying you were humiliated,

i was overplaying that part. what's your lesson? what's your take away -- you're a young man. what's your takeaway that could help you in a future run? >> my hope is that i hope it's not the message that was defeated. i think our message resonates and actually trumps the other message. but we were sort of trumped by celebrity. i think we continue to talk about that, if you are physically conservatifiscally conservative you have to talk about stabilizing the economy. probably the majority of the party still believes toppling assad and gadhafi was a good idea. the president admitted it was a terrible decision to topple gadhafi. he said you should have thought more about it. for those of us who believe in the constitution, we say it causes you to think. we go to war when we have

consensus. >> because of trump's celebrity, do you look back and think you could have done anything different that could have significantly changed the game? >> not really. i think that -- i think virtually everybody got trumped in the sense that -- i mean, he was getting 25 times more coverage than all of the other candidates combine. it was overwhelming. and cruz was able to stick around and make his way through that. >> right. >> and that's a good strategy. but i am not so sure is necessarily worked for me either because our coalition was probably a little bit different than others. and -- but i do think that, on the intellectual plane our ideas are winning, the idea of whether or not we should always intervene in every civil war, i think we're winning some of those battles, at least among the public. >> senator rand paul, thank you for being on the set today. still ahead, filmmaker ken burns turns his camera on the man that changed baseball and the country forever. jackie robinson.

a nbc's tom brokaw joins the conversation as well. ♪ ♪ ♪ for your retirement,

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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. what african-americans have wanted from america is a seat at the table. jackie robinson knew once he got in the door, he could knock down all of these conventions. first you get out there and you prove you can play, then you can start talking pack to umps, then you start dealing with writers on your terms instead of their terms. then you start fighting to make sure the hotels are integrated.

and over time jackie robinson has pushed us forward. for him there was no satisfaction with simply being allowed to enter the time. >> that was a look at the new two-part pbs documentary jackie robinson which examines the boundary breaking baseball player's life and impact far beyond the field. it's the latest project from award winning filmmaker ken burns and ken joins us now along with nbc news special correspondent tom brokaw who was interviewed in the film. good to have you both. >> an extraordinary story, an extraordinary man, of course, but even before he will get into baseball and was fighting that uphill battle you talk about how in 1944 and show how in '44 he was arrested because he refused to sit in the back of the bus. >> so when jack roosevelt robinson makes his way to first base in 1947 martin luther king

is in college, harriet s. true man hasn't integrated the military, there are no organized sit ins, no brown versus board of education, we are years away from rosa parks but he has done it in '44 and gets court-martialed. he is as dr. king said a sit inner before sit ins and freedom rider before freedom rides. this is the first real sort of society-wide progress in race relations since the emancipation proclamation and the passing of the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment. >> why jackie robinson? >> he had the stuff. they were shopping not just for talent but for character. he was college educated, feisty and combative and turning the other cheek would be more difficult for him than all the other people that were out in front, perhaps even better baseball players, but jackie would be the one who would understand what was at stake. every single day of his life he got up and tried to make the lives of other people better and

the effect across the country, you know, as tom says in the film is tremendous. people all across the country could identify with the uphill struggle that he was having, he was experiencing. >> this approach he had to integration, integrating the game ruffled some feathers in whites and blacks. >> oh, my goodness. >> speak to how the documentary speaks to how african-americans viewed him at different stages in this post baseball career. >> this is a film made by sara burns, david mcman and myself, we co-directed and co-produced it. what we wanted to do was remove jackie from the tyranny from the mythology of he is just a good negro in quotes, that turns the other cheek for those three years when, in fact, jackie's whole life is about equality and not settling for second class status. once he's no longer obligated to return turn that other cheek he's feisty and acts out. not only has the press turned

against him, so other african-americans roy camp nel la on his own team as you will find out tonight on part 2 was saying, hey, slow down, don't rock the boat. i came from poverty in philadelphia don't do this and that drove jackie crazy because he just wanted to go forward. it's pretty inspirational. i think what we've been able to do is try to liberate him from that mythology. >> tom brokaw you worked for wusb in the in the mid 1960s, you saw so much in the deep south. in the mid '60s, it's remarkable this was happening 20 years before that. >> he gets into major league baseball in 1948, in 1962, i think, george wallace was still standing in the schoolhouse door, segregation now, segregation forever. jackie robinson preceded all of that and everything that ken has said i think was enormously important plus he married rachel robinson and part of what you want to see in this broadcast is

the impact of her on his life. her ability to articulate what they went through. she stood at his side. i am -- i was devoted to him, i wore shipped him when i was a child and i still do and i get kind of emotional when i think about what they went through and how unnecessary it was. bill clinton had the beatles, i had jackie robinson. i met him one time, he came into the studio with nelson rockefeller, he was a republican for all of his life and i was doing an important interview show in los angeles and i had never met jackie robinson so the press was all there waiting for nelson rockefeller, i almost knocked eefr rockefeller and brushed aside two secret service agents and made a complete fool of myself. mr. robinson, i've been waiting all my life for this moment. he was embarrassed. i don't care. i got to meet him. >> there are people like that. >> so, ken, what are we going to see tonight?

>> well, tonight is part two, it's the less known. if we've tried to do a different treatment of the birth to his arrival in 1947, this is going to be what happens for the rest of his life. he is an active civil rights worker, he writes for the liberal new york post, he is a republican supporting nixon until nixon doesn't bail dr. king out of jail and then he's back with nelson rockefeller in the '64 convention to watch this momentous change in american history when the republican party moves from the party of lincoln founded in 1854 on one principle, abolition of slavery and decides they can peel off disaffected southern democrats, white southern democrats unhappy with the recently passed civil rights law and that's, you know, an extraordinary story and you can see that right in this film. >> the other thing, quickly, joe, is that jackie robinson went to nixon who he knew better than he knew the ken december and said dr. king is in jail and we have to do something about it

and nixon didn't want to do that. jack kennedy gets persuade this is an opportunity for him to open up the african-american vote in the south and he went there instead. it's a very, very rich story and a reminder. >> ep ken burns, thank you so much. you can catch part two of his documentary on pbs tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern. tom brokaw, thank you as well. >> i'm glad that you knocked over the secret service agents. >> you did the right thing. >> coming up in our next hour music superstar bono testifies before congress today but he will first join us live on "morning joe." plus new numbers in the battle for the empire state as ted cruz seizes on donald trump's complaint that the primary is rigged. keep it right here on "morning joe." an and chelsea were searching for the perfect place for their wedding on booking.com. oh! yurt. yes! earthy... just rustic. [laughing] oh my gosh. wow. [owl howling] [gulp] uh, how about an island? island, yeah. yeah.

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there has been so much pressure like in colorado which was a total fix -- there's so much -- the people all wanted to vote. they took away their votes. they said we'll do it by delegate. they said they're going to do it by delegate. isn't that nice? i end up winning louisiana and then when everything is done i find out i get less delegates than this guy that got his ass kicked. okay? give me a break. now, you may have noticed that when donald loses he gets very unhappy, he yells and screams and stamps his foot. he curses and yells and insults anyone nearby.

look, as we know in the state of california wine is something best served with cheese. >> there he is, just for you. he did that just for you. >> he did. i like that line. wine is -- okay. so good morning everyone. >> yeah. >> it is tuesday, april 12th. welcome to "morning joe." with us we have managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of all due respect mark halperin, former communications director for president george w. bush nicolle wallace. >> how are we getting all this people? >> i don't know. >> are we paying that much? >> i mean, look at this guy, former democratic congressman harold ford jr., he charges a lot. >> i finally get somebody i can talk to about the masters because nobody could talk about it yesterday. did you see the final round? >> i did. >> it had something and another ball and went around -- that was

amazing -- >> i literally went out for five minutes and when i came back in he was on his way to a consecutive masters win and one of the most dominant runs in golf to looking like you and me. >> more like me, joe can hit the ball. his history there at the masters, he goes from 10 to 12 and shoots six over, bogie, bogie, quadruple and changed the trajecto trajectory, not only the tournament. he's young, people wondering whether or not he can recover from this, he will, but, gosh, he's got to -- >> that's the question. rory recovered. >> right. >> greg norman never recovered. >> right. >> he is so young. >> sometimes you recover. >> and he is that good. >> and what happens it's like a mental -- >> no, the thing is about golf -- >> it was two days ago. >> i know. >> it was sunday. >> it's a tournament like no other, though. >> nothing like it. >> also with us, this was a very, very long digression --

>> something had to be on his mind the whole time. >> do you know what he's thinking about, when is harold ford going to be back on "morning joe"? if we only put you on friday none of that would have happened. >> we do have one more introduction to make with this political writer for "the new york times" nick confessore. >> do not sill hamlet in the first act. there he is. >> how about news. >> look at that mug right there. >> how about some news. >> okay. >> this morning. >> really? >> donald trump appears headed for his first majority victory one week from today. we have to do some after noon hours but i have a proposition to make for management, why don't we just go until noon all of us and chuck can start at 4:00. >> i like that. >> i think we should talk to phil about that, it seems silly to -- right? >> sure. >> should we be negotiating terms of our -- >> i want to stay on for six hours, we did that eight years ago and four years ago. >> we will be on from 6:00 in the morning until noon. >> i like turning it on and seeing you guys in the afternoon. >> you do?

>> even when i hear it doesn't soak all in it's so early. i do like hearing it again. >> afternoon joe. >> she's negotiating against us. >> thanks, nicolle. as the nbc "wall street journal" marist poll finds him at 54% among likely new york republican primary voters. >> i thought he was finished. no, seriously. wisconsin -- because i was looking -- let's look -- >> stop. >> just keep that up there. trump has 54, kasich at 21 and cruz at 18, but i've got to tell you, mark halperin, i saw the returns come in from the outskirts of appleton, wisconsin, and i read the newspaper and i go on the twitter. i felt like donald trump was finished. i thought that was the end. they told me he was done. >> right. >> that all of the since of donald trump had caught up to him. >> okay. >> no, i'm serious. how could this be? i'm just -- >> you can go home again. >> i'm flabbergasted. >> the northeast is good for trump. wisconsin was bad and this is

shaping up to be a spectacular state for him. >> so are they all going to say after he wins new york that it's all over like they did after he lost wisconsin? >> you mean all over for trump or against trump? >> it's always against trump. will they say this time it's all over? i'm just saying, seriously, the jack asses that have been doing this for nine months should stop embarrassing themselves. it's getting really old. >> if he performs well in new york he will be back on track to be within sight of a majority and you will at problems of wisconsin will be a distant memory. >> the thing is what's insulting to me, harold ford, is so few things are insulting to me, but what's insulting to me is you can't state politically obvious things. right? without people saying, oh, you are in the tank for trump or, oh, you are supporting trump. no. no. no. we just can actually look at the earth and see that the sun goes down and that it's actually not flat, but there have been a lot of flat earthers out there for

nine months who have been writing stories in the mainstream media nonstop that donald trump will never win, he is a fool, he is an idiot, when it looks like he can win he is a nazi, he is a fascist. i think it was robert rice who compared him to mussolini and hitler and stalin, you combine that that's 50 million deaths between them all. i guess it's because -- >> it's not funny but it's -- >> i guess it's just because -- think about it. donald trump still friends with amorosa which tv guide once listed as one of the top villains in tv history. i suppose there is a reason why people can draw the conclusion between him and hitler. so maybe there's that connection. i don't really know. but i do know political reality. and the political reality is for whatever reason whether you support him or don't support him donald trump is in the strong

position while a bunch of idiots last week were predicting his demise like a bunch of idiots have been predicting his demise since he went down that elevator with his big beautiful hands as he said to the "washington post." >> okay. i'm moving on. >> big and beautiful. i'm asking harold ford. how do you deal with this campaign analyzing this campaign if you can't tell the truth? >> i was on with you guys about a week ago, i think it was, and we analyzed the david brooks date of loss thumb. we said he needed to get out of his office and get down and try to understand the electorate better. you have a week after wisconsin i think mark might have said it whoever wins they get that burst, they get the energy, they get the attention, but one thing that is not happened to trump is that his voters have not left him. in fact, people seem to be more intrigued by him, by how he answers and how he responds to adversity and toughness. after wisconsin there was no doubt i thought the establishment thought that they could regroup, rejuvenate and

find a message that could puncture him and perhaps take the air out of that balloon and in fact it doesn't look like that's happening here in new york. if he wins with these numbers that are coming out in the last 24 hours, i mean, mark knows, you know better than i do, i think it looks like he can win all of the delegates here if he wins all of these congressional districts 50% plus one. >> nicolle, you have relatives who are supporting donald trump but you yourself not supporting donald trump but you've been saying this very strongly for the last couple weeks from people who, again, just don't want -- they don't want to report the truth, they don't want to hear about the truth. >> yeah. and, listen, i think at this network we've done a more careful job than at other networks where what you will to be true clouds what you can plainly see to be true. i would say that the drama of the night was lost in what you just described, this sort of jubilation that he had a set back. all that happened was it became possible for him to maybe not get to 1,237. nothing else happened. >> exactly. >> nobody else had a possibility

and nobody else has a possibility of getting to 1,237. and i think people really get lost in what the drama is and isn't. he didn't crumble, he didn't crater. actually the question of the night that he has now answered is can he adjust, can he make improvements and he plainly has and can. >> he has made, mark halperin, a number of adjustments. how many -- i mean, i don't know if he's -- maybe he's called into one or two shows, but he's putting statements out, he's having his campaign guy, paul manafort go out and make the nazi analogies. >> let's just -- let's not over -- >> i'm just saying, though -- >> celebrate? >> yeah. >> no, i'm not. >> but the point is he has a sur fwat. he hasn't had one. >> he has a surrogate. >> i'm not overcelebrating, i'm not undercelebrating, i'm doing what i've done from the beginning, i've been boring, i've been john madden, that's a 15 and out. he completed that pass, first down, move the chains.

that's what i'm doing. sorry. >> so he's moving the chains down the field. they can hate the fact -- >> you have to tell people who john madden is. >> circa 19 -- >> he is still in danger of not getting the majority even if he does super well in new york and going to the convention short and not necessarily winning on a subsequent ballot. he is not -- he has not locked it up. >> i'm not saying he has locked it up. >> alex says last sunday was the first sundayless trump in five months. >> in five months and i'm just saying all the things that people said he needed to do -- >> he did it. >> -- he's starting to do, but you don't see those stories. >> hold on. maybe. >> they're not. >> let's see if there's something about donald trump setting a dumpster fire somewhere here. >> all right. can i move on? trump took his campaign to albany last night inside an arena with the capacity for 17,000 people. after losing dozens of delegates to ted cruz through local party meetings and state convention in

colorado last week trump railed against the delegate process. >> if i go to the voters of colorado we win colorado. so it's a crooked, crooked system. you know, we think about democracy and we think about our country. let me tell you a little secret as far as our country is concerned, we have a democracy but we've got to keep our democracy and we're going to do that and it's very interesting -- >> it's a very sick system and i will tell you why. maybe in addition to winning, maybe we'll clean up the system so that in future years we can have an honest contest. we might be able to clean up this dirty rotten disgusting system. >> so as we said yesterday, nicolle -- >> that's one way to put it. >> as we said yesterday -- >> but he is on to something. >> that's what we said. >> totally. >> we said forget about the rules are the rules and the rules are the rules, rules were

laid out clearly, none of his people have any reason to complain about it, but as far as a campaign message goes, the system is rigged, that's as good -- that's as good as it gets. >> that's the bernie sanders message. >> he is back on his core message. his people are animated because they have felt for years through democrat and republican administrations that the economy is rigged against them. they have looked at the republican establishment and the people who govern under the banners of republicans in washington saying they're going to repeal obamacare, whatnot and no nothing -- this is -- this is what an mates his supporters and i think gives him the opportunity of growing his base to other people who feel like the establishment in politics, the establishment and the economy is rigged against them. i think this is a good message for him. >> bernie sanders has taken the campaign financing message and said that these big givers have rigged the system, so he has taken this -- you don't lose by talking about things being rigged against every day hard working middle class americans. if your message is to empower and repower he is back on it.

>> it's become a universal theme and candidates with it is winning. >> it's a big fat target. i can't explain to you the delegate selection process in colorado. >> i know. >> it's impenetrable. it finds a sympathetic audience amongst even some elites and the media -- >> or even louisiana. >> it's not rigged in anyone's favor but it's not a democratic system. >> it's not. >> votes don't count. >> nick confessore i went to read one of my favorite conservative writers yesterday, the national review, for him to explain why trump was whining and i was -- about colorado, because the rules are the rules are the rules. i get about halfway down it and i said, wait a second, let me start over again. trying to figure out when exactly the people of colorado had their chance to vote and then it ended up if they had their chance to vote back in the fall but not for candidates, for delegates. now, i'm not going to go out in the fall and vote for tom, you

know, >> jones. >> -- two heart through driving snow. i think i'm going to drive 30 miles and sit in a caucus room and vote for tommy, tommy t. it is a very convoluted process and seems to play in colorado right into trump's rhetorical hands, big beautiful hands he tells "the washington post." >> trump is standing in for the average person who has no idea how this whole system works. i think, you know, voters have been going into the ballot box in primaries in the same way they go into the voting booth in generals and they have been pulling the lever they think for a candidate and in reality it turns out they are voting for a person who votes for a person who votes for a person who votes for a person for the candidate. >> right. >> right. >> and people have no idea how it works. >> that's insane. >> it is a system that has not been stress tested in the modern era. trump wakes up one day and says wait a second -- i should say,

look, it's malpractice, political malpractice that his team did not see this and organize for it because the rules are the rules and every other candidate of measure has been out there figuring out how to win at this part of the process and the rules are the rules. >> still ahead on "morning joe," hillary clinton makes one of her most forceful arguments yet against bernie sanders just as she opens a double digit lead in new york. plus. >> i'm very moved by these men and women that i have just spent time with. i mean, their stories are more convincing than -- than any statistics. >> bono the legendary front man of u2 joins us live to talk about facing a worsening global reality. millions of refugees worldwide. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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this country is ready for a woman. there's no problem. we will be able to elect a woman in this country. >> would you like to see us elect a woman? >> i would like to see a woman elected. >> that's it. >> that's all right. i'd like -- i'm not getting into that -- >> i'd like to ask one more question. >> the question and i are not going to endorse because we both when we ran said let the party decide. but, gosh all mighty, they are both qualified. hillary -- hillary is overwhelmingly qualified to be president. >> hold on a second. who loves joe biden. you have to raise your hand. camera people, everybody. we need a full tally. who loves joe biden.

>> okay. everybody. everybody. we love him. >> answer the question. >> he answers the question. that's it. >> he says, no, come on. i'm joe biden. >> i'm going to answer the question. >> that was vice president joe biden tells nbc news that the interjection by a staff member was made because of the time limit. not because of the line of questioning. that sounds like hillary clinton's campaign. meanwhile, hillary clinton is opening up a double digit lead, they're doing their jobs -- double digit lead in new york one week out from the primary. >> they can change the world because they're doing their job jobs. >> they're going to change the world. >> seven fantasy football games -- >> that's the best commercial. >> clinton ahead of bernie sanders by 14 points. >> i think i was half asleep and read a mon moth university poll as well. >> there is a new mon moth

university poll that has her up 12, hillary is strong in new york. should be fine, right? >> what has happened here, mark halperin, just a week ago we were told that this was going to be a close race, bernie was like charging. >> yeah. >> et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. every poll i've seen shows -- it's really all going hillary's way and she can put him away here. >> i think he squandered his wisconsin win and the momentum coming out of wisconsin in a variety of ways. and this it's her home state. >> what did he do wrong? i thought he was pretty aggressive, pretty good. >> he spent three days challenging her on whether she's qualified to be president when for all the arguments he has trying to say that she's not qualified probably is the one that's going to have the least recep tift in a state that she represented as a senator and she and her husband have not taken the state for granted, they've campaigned very hard here. i don't think it's over. >> i don't think so. >> he's got a chance, but she's

above 50 and she's working hard and she understands where the votes are. >> she's strong in the polls. having said that the new numbers come as sanders continues to draw massive crowds across the state. yesterday he spoke to about 5,000 people in binghamton, 6,000 in albany, 8,000 in buffalo and at each event the senator put new emphasis on environmental issues, calling for a nationwide ban on fracking, while criticizing clinton for her record on the environment. >> on this issue of fracking secretary clinton and i have some very strong differences of opinion. secretary clinton's role in fracking when she was secretary of state is not a good record. secretary clinton in her state department work to export fracking throughout the world, to reward companies like chevron, halliburton, exxon

mobil and con co phillips. in my view that is unacceptable. >> i have noticed that under the bright spotlight and scrutiny here in new york senator sanders has had trouble answering questions, he has had trouble answering questions about his core issue, namely dealing with the banks, he has had trouble answering foreign policy questions and so i look forward to a debate that is in new york with people asking the kind of questions that new yorkers ask. >> when challenged on his gun stances he frequently says, well, you know, i represent vermont, it is a small rural state, we have no gun laws. here is what i want you to know, most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in new york come from out of state. and the state that has the highest per capita number of

those guns that end up committing crimes in new york come from vermont. >> i think hillary -- you take -- those two clips right there, i think that's hillary clinton at her best. >> yeah, and a lot of people, you know -- we watch her in the primaries live and sometimes they sound -- that's an intense environment and huge crowds. i think she's so policy focused that she's no effective and powerful in these settings, she seems to have sort of -- i don't know, she has pulled back a little bit. that attack on the guns is so -- i got chills. this is the third time i've heard it and, you know, i think when she makes an argument like that in sort of a more serious tone it's deadly. >> it's the power of really good delivery which i think it is -- as a lot of candidates have learned along the way and some of them actually learn and some of them don't -- >> right.

>> -- you know, there are times you have to -- and i remember i learned this on book tours where they are like put the mic closer to to your mouth. sometimes you have to translate how you think it's sound to go how it really sounds in a huge room you can actually talk very quietly and you're far more effective. >> it's a gender thing, right? bernie sanders barely has a voice and he screeches and there's never any comment. i think he sounds like he is about to lose it, but we never talk about it. she -- you will notice how she's delivering and i love change and she's sort of trying out different, i think -- bernie sanders hasn't needed to. >> this was really good. >> this was really effective. >> don't underestimate she's campaigning in a state she understands and has a feel for. bernie sanders might be from brooklyn originally but she knows how to campaign in new york. there's a comfort level. coming up on "morning joe," is this new hampshire or new

york? watching tv in new york is beginning to feel like a battle ground state. plus seeing red, our next guest explains how it comes down to only 2 million voters who will decide the next president. stay with us.

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big is back. xfinity watchathon week starts april 18. the greatest collection of shows free with xfinity on demand. next tuesday you're going to go out and vote and i'm not a politician. did you ever hear these guys, did you ever hear them where they say it doesn't matter who you vote for. this is a great democracy. well, we found out in colorado

and in other places this is not a democracy like we're supposed to have. we're going to make it a better democracy. all right? a better and a fair democracy. and we're not going to have rigged elections in the republican party anymore. >> that was donald trump speaking yesterday in albany, new york, but two people we know who won't be voting on tuesday, his children eric and ivanka trump. according to a public data on voter registration, both eric and ivanka registered to vote but not enrolled in a political party which means they're ineligible to vote in the new york's primary. had their dad said they were unaware of the rules and failed to register as republicans before the october deadline. he says they feel very guilty but that's fine by me. with us now our good friend he had morrissy, he is out with a new book, "going red," we also have emergency, nicolle wallace

and ron fournier back with us as well. >> ed, this is microtargeting. tell us about going red. >> it takes a look at the voters in key swing counties in key swing states. these are states that republicans lost in 2008 and 2012 with one exception, north carolina, and they are counties that republicans used to win fairly regularly until 2008. and what the book does is it takes a look back at what went wrong and what republicans need to do to become competitive in these counties, because without these counties and the counties that are similarly situated in these states, republicans are not going to win another presidential election. >> let's be blunt. how does ted cruz, how does donald trump do in hillsborough county, florida? >> i knew you were going to ask me about hillsborough county. and the entire i-4 corridor. absolutely. the book focuses on the general election, the voters, so it doesn't discuss the different

candidates. here is what i would say is that ted cruz has the superior organizational skills that would be necessary to win in places like that. >> to do the targeting. >> to do the targeting. >> find his voters. >> not just to find his voters but also to find voters that might become his voters, and there is one mention of ted cruz in wake county where it talks about the fact that he was able to adjust his message to the temper of the local community. >> right. >> when he was in wake county. so those are big keys in being able to work into these swing counties. my position on this is if donald trump picked up going red and said this is a great plan, we should do this then he should be able to perform fairly well. the question is donald trump temperament alley suited to that type of campaign does he demonstrate that had in the primary and so far we are not seeing evidence of that. >> emergency. >> so these counties have gone from red to blue.

is it because the people who live there are different, is it because voters are voting in a different way or some voters are not turning out? >> i think combinations of all three and one of the things that you find when you're digging into these counties is that the demographics have changed. there has been a lot of growth in some of these counties, wake county, north carolina, is one of the fastest growing counties over the last 15 years in the united states, a lot of technology coming into wake county, a lot of college students who decide that they love the place and want to live there for the rest of their lives. so there is a constant growth and constant transition of voters. then you have a place like hamilton county in ohio where there has been a net loss of voters. in fact, in cincinnati it is a profound loss of voters. so the people who were economically able to move out of that area have done so. what is left behind are people who are very committed to cincinnati and people who have difficulties in being able to move out of that area and that's transformed the ring suburbs

around cincinnati as well because that transition moves outward. so it becomes very difficult now for republicans to win hamilton county without understanding who those -- who the voters are that are left. >> right. >> and that used to be the county that was more republican than the rest of the state. >> talk about trump and cruz specifically in these counties. can they possibly win these counties with their numbers right now with women and minorities? >> i would say it would be difficult but possible. >> even with trump? >> well, with trump -- >> tell me how in the world trump could win these counties. >> trump is a different case. i'm cautious about making predictions about donald trump because he has confounded a lot of predictiones in this cycle. his argument is that he is going to turn out other voters so strongly that these demographics don't necessarily matter in a general election, but we don't see any evidence that that's the case. >> are there enough of those other voters to mathematically be able to do it? >> i would say in hamilton county, no. in the other counties it's

possible but i would be skeptical about his ability to do that in the i-4 corridor because there is a very diverse number of voters there. the puerto rican vote is key in the i-4 corridor and hillsborough county and i don't think he's addressing the economic concerns of the puerto rican community. >> we've taused about this election being a nationalized one. are these counties an exception where a regional specific, a county specific narrative could sort of trump for lack of a better word the national narratives? >> you know, i would argue that the national approach is the wrong approach. >> it always has been but this campaign seems to be defying -- >> i would say in the primary it seems to be working for donald trump until now and i would say if you are taking a look at how ted cruz is coming in and working the delegate math, i think that that is showing that that's actually not a sustainable model. i would say that republicans have to get used to running

presidential campaigns as basically 435 congressional campaigns. that's what barack obama did in 2008 and he made -- he made an emotional connection with voters in 2008 that was strong enough to sustain him through the 2012 election when he wasn't nearly as popular as he was in 2008. >> all right. ed morrissy, thank you so much for coming. >> thank you for having me on. >> you need to come back a lot more. we love you. >> i'd love to do it. >> all right. the book is "going red" ed morrissy thank you so much and good luck. still to come this morning. >> and what is this girl's name? >> ato. >> what does that mean? >> what are. >> it means war? >> and why did you call her war? [ speaking foreign language ] >> coming up next, rock star and

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even though i am encouraged by the hospitality shown by the jordanians you still have razor wire and, you know, it's just to keep people out of the official places, but it's just a reminder of the refugees' life, it's really the symbol of a refugees' life is razor wire. >> that was u2 front man bono at a refugee camp in jordan earlier this month. he will be testifying in front of a senate subcommittee today talking about what he saw on that trip and the rock icon and co-founder of the one campaign and red, bono joins us from capitol hill now. thank you so much for being with us and more importantly thank you for spreading this story across the united states. we hear so much about the

refugee crisis, we hear so much about the syrian civil war but we don't see the actual effects of it. tell us what you saw in jordan and what an impact it had on you. >> well, thanks, joe, thanks for having me on. ten years ago i co--founded the organization one to find extreme poverty and i'm proud to tell you a lot of progress has been made in that fight. what i learned from my trip, though, was along the borders of so he malia and camps along the borders of syria. what i learned from that trip is a lot of this good work could get undone and furthermore it threatens the very existence of europe and that's a big thing to lay on you at breakfast and i know it's not on front page news here, but the refugee crisis places an existential threat on european unity.

so i wish i had better news to report. i think it's something to get ahead of. i know there's election fever and i can see why people are getting carried away, but the next president might spend his first term not just putting ahead fires but forest fires if you don't get ahead of this. >> nicolle wallace. >> your power has been to put a human face on the fights that you wage with policymakers and i know you break bread with presidents and prime ministers but your message is always about the human beings and especially the children. can you tell us what you saw and what these families are enduring? >> nicolle, i went, you know, to visit refugees but i came away having met, you know, mothers and their children and husbands. there's one thing you will see on "the new york times" website is i meet this wonderful man called abu he's humbling himself

in front of his son and his son looks like bill gates, like he will be the next secretary general and he's talking about how much he wants to go home. you think of these people as dangerous, you forget they've been in danger and they need us. and by the way we might need them in the war against terror. and these camps actually provide opportunities for us, they want to learn, they want to be educated and i think we should -- i think we should make their stays there much more useful. >> ron fournier. >> sir, at a time when people see their roads crumbling, their schools crumbling, when their jobs are being taken overseas, what would you say to them about the importance of this country investing at least as much if not more overseas? >> well, look, it's -- it's sort of, you know, prevention is a lot cheaper than intervention. we pay now or we pay more later. they are not my words, that's

actually lindsey graham fiscal conservative who holds the purse strings on foreign ops, that's what he's saying and the ministry are saying. this is very, very serious. this is a moment in history like you can't really imagine. if nigeria, god forbid, were to go the way of syria, if egypt were to go the way of syria, europe -- at least europe is no longer viable as we now know it. remember, europe is america's number one ally in the first against terror. this is really, really serious. and so that's why i think people should care and do care, but listen to the military, they're really good on this. they're starting to see development now as an essential part of their strategy in an asymmetrical conflict. we need different kind of weapons and i have to say development is now part of that and, you know, development used to be charity, right?

it's now national security. >> and part of your written testimony for congress today reads in part, quote, for too long aid has been seen as charity, a nice thing when we can afford to do it. but this is a moment to reimagine what we mean by aid. aid in 2016 is not just charity, it is national security. though of course we know that aid alone is not the answer, it is also true that when aid is structured properly with a focus on fighting poverty and improving governance it could just be the best bull work we have against the extremism of our age. we've been talking over the past six months about how the refugee crisis in europe is unrivaled since anytime since '45, '46, '47 after world war ii and the united states and the world responded with a marshall plan then. it sounds like you believe and a lot of other right-thinking people believe we might need to do the same thing again now.

>> yeah, i'm a great fan of america, the america of big ideas. america itself is a big idea and i think you are more american when you show that strength and smartness and, yeah, very -- the smart money is on doing something extraordinary now. i think business as usual we know how that's going to work out and it's not going to be good. we need some big thinking. and of course it's easy for me to say that. i know the american taxpayer is really hurting at the moment and the same in europe, but think between europe and america there is a consensus building that, you know, the corruption that's killing as many kids as disease can be dealt with by structuring these concession nl loans on the conditions that these countries that we give them to reform.

this new kind of club of countries to get into it people will have to go through some hoops that we want them to go through and i think it would be very good for us in the way that the marshall plan turned out very well for america in the end, i think it will again if something like that is deployed on the lavant and the sahill. >> mark halperin. >> if americans agree with you who are the american leaders they should reach out to to try to influence to get them to step up more? >> i think -- i think the military already have this in process. i think, you know -- i think it would be nice if we saw some of this turn up in some of the presidential debates, i think it's something that both sides will agree on, this is not a democratic or a republican point of view, and, i mean, the one campaign with now 7 million members, we call it the one campaign because we are often the one thing the two sides can agree on. so i'd like to see that.

i'd like to see that enter as a place of agreement really. >> all right. thank you so much, bono, we greatly appreciate it. we will be following your testimony before congress. also if you're watching out there, make sure you go to the "new york times".com and read bono's op-ed on this issue in this morning's times. >> joe, can i just say one thing, actually, it's to nicolle and it's just she knows because she worked for president bush, american people have done this before, they've taken on really impossible tasks and succeeded and the battle and the fight against aids was won successfully, it's an amazing thing, america leads the world in the fight against aids, nearly 10 million lives over -- are owed to america. so you can -- it's difficult stuff, but you're up to the job. >> you know, it's extraordinary -- >> i was going to say and you would know as well as anyone that i think it's one of the things he is most proud of. i know you and he both appeared in a recent documentary about that and it's a rare example of

a problem solved or we've gone a long way towards solving it in our times. >> i will say also you've been engaging both democrats and republicans now for a very long time on capitol hill. your model is a model that i wish more american politicians would take to heart that you -- >> amen. >> you come to a cause concerned about the cause, not concerned about the players on both sides and it's -- it seemed to have worked very well. to good luck today. >> thank you. thank you so much. >> we will be back with more "morning joe." you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs... you're like nothing can replace brad. then liberty mutual calls, and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement™, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.

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it's time for business before the bell with sara eisen. what are you looking at today? >> good morning. earnings season is upon us and guess what, the outlook isn't that great. we are looking at potentially our third quarter in a row of a decline in earnings growth. a lot has to do with energy, those companies are still reeling from the price collapse of the price of oil, but let's see if companies manage to surprise in a good way. one pocket of strength could be consumer discretionary stocks, the other piece i wanted to highlight, front page story on that goldman sachs mortgage settlement of $5.1 billion it's forced to pay on wrongdoing before the financial crisis the times says that's actually going to be a lot less and to be as much as $1 billion less because of government incentives and tax credits. this is the first of the big

multi-billion dollar bank semts and suggests that they look a lot higher than they actually are in reality. back to you. >> thank you so much, sara eisen. fascinating story. i'm sure we will be following that. that's going to do it for us today. ron, before we leave, i want to again congratulate you, obviously story very personal to you, i also -- it's personal for me and obviously personal for nicolle because she has cried three times now through three readings. >> your humanity and bush's humanity and all the presidents humanity is something we don't hear enough about. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. >> the book is "love that boy" by ron fournier. go out and buy it today. steve kornacki picks up the coverage after a quick break. we'll see you tomorrow.

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> good morning. i'm steve kornacki. topping our agenda right now, donald trump says the game is rigged as he steps up his a skault on the republican nominating process. >> the system, folks, is rigged. it's a rigged, disgusting, dirty system. >> and now the republican establishment firing back. rins priebus saying the rules are the rules a