just enough time left to say that does it for this hour. i'm steve kornacki. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's tuesday, the speaker has spoken, again. but is it the final word? and if he's not the one left standing at the convention meltdown, then who would the white knight be? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. boy, the world of politics and presidential campaigns gets weirder and weirder. good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. and welcome to a tuesday edition of "mtp daily." republicans have a convention crisis on their hands, full stop. front-runner, donald trump, is

taking the stage right now at a rally in new york. it comes as he's essentially declared war on the party's nominating process. he's laying the groundwork for a mutiny in cleveland, arguing that the convention is illegitimate, unless he's the nominee. we're going to dive into trump's battle cry and how it's resonating a huge chunk of voters, but we begin tonight with the big news from the republican speaker of the house, who also happens to hold the title of convention chairman, paul ryan. ryan has been built up as the party's insurance policy, the consensus candidate that could rescue the party from an implosion over trump and cruz. today ryan held a major press conference at rnc headquarters and he was defiant. count me out. >> let me be clear. i do not want nor will i accept the nomination for our party. if no candidate has a majority on the first ballot, i believe that you should only choose for

a person who has actually participated in the primary. count me out. i simply believe that if you want to be the nominee for our party, to be the president, you should actually run for it. i chose not to do this. therefore, i should not be considered, period. end of story. >> ryan also laid the groundwork to prevent his name from ever being offered at the convention. it's the single-most important thing he said today. >> the rules committee, which is some of the delegates, will decide what the rules are, but i would encourage those delegates to put in place a rule that says you can only nominate someone who actually ran for the job. >> if that does happen, and that's ryan putting the blueprint, because there's nothing else he could fully shermanesque kind of stop the speculation, unless an actual rule is drawn up. i think that if anything said shermanesque, it was him making that suggestion today. but, folks, let's look at what happened today. itas a pretty good day if you

were hillary clinton and the democrats. there was a very compelling argument that ryan is the most electable republican out there. you have to wonder, who brings the republican party together if it's not going to be ryan. because the clouds are gathering around trump and the gop and the stop-trump forces are whipping republican votes against trump if you can't win on the first ballot. meanwhile, trump's forces have declared a war on the entire process. everything from state rules to the national party infrastructure. and they are rallying their troops for an all-out rebellion in cleveland if necessary. and polls show that a lot of republican voters, even those that are anti-trump, could be receptive to their larger cause. trump is trying to make the case that the republican convention is illegitimate unless the guy who's the leading delegate guy going in and the leading vote getter going in is the nominee. and that's likely to be donald trump. in fact, last night, trump ripped into the delegate's party crisis, specifically calling it a question, states where anti-trump forces took advantage of the delegate rules, to chip away at his support.

take a listen. >> the system, folks, is rigged. it's a rigged, disgusting, dirty system. it's a dirty system. if i go to the voters of colorado, we win colorado. so, it's a crooked, crooked system. i end up winning louisiana, and then when everything is done, i find out i get less delegates than this guy that got his ass kicked, okay? give me a break. >> now, the chairman of the republican party, reince priebus, fired back, saying that the delegate rules have not changed. quote, the rules were set last year. the rules are the same, nothing different. he's absolutely right and states have their own rules on all this stuff. and you've got to remember, the rnc and the dnc, by the way, are private organizations and they can have any rules that they want. trump's campaign, though, has kicked it into overdrive. they are questioning the delegate hauls of rival candidates. in fact, on sunday's "meet the press," the trump campaign's new convention manager, paul manafort, accused of the cruz campaign of, quote, gestapo

tactics as an effort to intimidate and win over delegates. former trump adviser rogerstone is threatening to disclose the hotel and room numbers of any candidates trying to stop trump at the convention. but it wasn't that long ago that trump warned of riots in cleveland if he's not the nominee. and here's the big dilemma for the gop, especially the donor class that's particularly concerned about trump or cruz. voters a all across the country agree with trump's central argument, that he should be the nominee as long as he's got the lead in delegates heading into the convention. in fact, according to our new nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist poll in new york state, where trump leads big, 54% say that that trump should be nominated. in a state like cruz won, like wisconsin, most of our exit voters agreed with that as well. that the one with the most votes in the primaries should be the nominee. and according to a mcclatchy poll, 52% believe that trump

should be the nominee if he has the most delegates by the convention. a large chunk of trump supporters say that they will abandon the party if trump is at the nominee in cleveland. only 43% said they'd support a nominee not name trumped. a plurality said they would either not vote in november or vote independent or switch sides and vote democratic. the it's a prisoner's dilemma the party is facing and they have few good options. cruz now finds himself dueling with one of conservative media's most powerful outlets, the drudge report, after it ran headlines, portray rg cruz's sweep of the colorado delegates as a sham. here's cruz's reaction. >> in about the past month, the drudge report has basically become the attack site for the donald trump campaign. by all appearances, roger stone now decides what's on drudge. and most days they have a 6-month-old article that is some attack on me. and it's whatever the trump campaign is pushing that day, with will be the banner headline on drudge. by the way, they no longer cover

news. there was no red siren on drudge, when we won all 34 delegates in colorado. that wasn't news, because -- i mean, it was -- that's fine. if people want to get on the trump train, they can. >> wow! that was quite the extended rant against mr. drudge there. by the way, an election season doesn't go by without somebody accusing drudge of being in the tank for a particular candidate. this year, that candidate is trump that everybody has accused him of being in the tank for. it wasn't that long ago that he was accused of being in the tank for romney during the '12 campaign, for what it's worth. meanwhile, there's john kasich. he's been vigorously trying to play peacemaker in the party with an eye on cleveland. today he delivered a major policy speech in new york, suggesting that both trump and cruz have disqualified themselves. you probably missed it. here it is. >> i've stood on a stage and watched with amazement as candidates wallowed in the mud, viciously attacked one another,

called each other liars, and disparaged each other's character. those who continuously push that type of behavior are not worthy of the office they are seeking. >> that brings us back to ryan's comments today. right now the republican party is in a state of chaos, much like it was when the party drafted ryan to grab the speaker's gavel. ryan was asked about that comparison today, by our own luke russert. here's ryan's answer. >> being speaker of the house is a far cry from being president of the united states, specifically, because i was already in the house. i'm already a congressman. so i was asked by my colleagues to take a responsibility within congress that i've already been serving in, from the one that i had. that is entirely different than getting the nomination for president of the united states by your party, without even running for job. so completely non sequitur comparison in any book. >> by the way, in case you're wondering what donald trump is

talking about right now, he's talking about the rigged system, in his words, that he believes he's participating in. it's very similar to comments we've already played for you, but we are keeping an eye on it and monitoring it and we will have it as we go. but we want to continue with our coverage of this. let me go to luke russert right now. he was in that small room and got that important question. which really, finally, got ryan close to shermanesque. he hadn't quite gotten there in his prepared remarks. i think he came closer to shutting the door with you, luke. but, this is -- it seems as if ryan had his own dilemma. he does embrace the idea that he is the head of the republican party, for now. and he wants to continue to play that role, but he doesn't want to view it as, view it as some sort of shadow campaign. >> that is a dilemma. and what he's trying to do here, chuck, is what his team has said, they want to run a parallel campaign, to whoever the nominee is going to be. and if it is going to be cruz or trump, which is what the money would suggest right now, either one of those comes out of cleveland, they want to present an alternative version of the

republican party. so what else did ryan talk about today? he talked about upward mobility. he talked about restructuring the tax code, to make it more fair. he talked about poverty. all these types of things you don't necessarily hear from a ted cruz or a donald trump in that fashion. they think that ryan can be a more effective mouthpiece to tell people, hey, look, this is what you might hear on the presidential side, but here's what we're trying to do on the house. thooe here's what we're going to try to do in the senate. it's significant, because formally the parties are tight. they're on message. romney, boehner, mcconnell, they would talk all the time. in this case, it could be vastly different. one other thing i would say, to play this out, his team also thinks that if it's president clinton, majority leader schumer, speaker ryan, he becomes the de facto, head of the republican party, no matter what, and for his own future, if he wants to go, it's a lot better going against a party that's had 12 years in the white house as opposed to the one that's just been in there eight years. higher probability of winning in

2020. >> that's all true, luke. but whenever you try to plan out your moment as a presidential candidate, you never seem to find it. ask a whole bunch of them that are on the sidelines this cycle. luke russert, thank you, sir. on sunday, i asked conservative radio show host, glenn beck, about both ryan and the prospect of a contested convention. let's listen to what he said. do you think he is running an underground campaign? >> i don't know why -- i would like to take him at his word, but i don't take anybody really in washington at their word anymore. this isn't about a candidate coming up with some utopian future for us, this is about finding their principles. and if they don't find their principles with, the gop is going to be over. and disenfranchising people who have worked hard and gone out and campaigned for some of these people, i think, would be a really bad mistake. >> by the way, it's important to note, glenn beck, part of the never-trump movement, has endorsed ted cruz, but said,

denying trump the nomination would reck the republican party, even in a worse way. oh, by the way, though, he said he would not support trump under any circumstances. let me bring in seven-term congressman tom cole of oklahoma. he have chief of staff during the historic 2000 election cycle, so he's been around the block as both a candidate, an elected official, a behind the scenes guy. congressman cole, good to see you, sir. >> good to see you, chuck. >> about two weeks ago, you were very publicly in favor of the draft ryan proposal or the backup plan of paul ryan. you certainly were intrigued about it. are you disappointed this afternoon? >> no, look. i think paul has been perfectly straight with everybody all along. he said he didn't want to do this. he's been abundantly clear. he's repeated it. so i take him at his word. i don't think he has any attention of becoming a candidate or any attention of allowing himself to be drafted a as a candidate. >> so what does that do for you now? where do you want to turn?

>> look, i'm going to support the republican nominee. i just wish that candidates that are competing would not put themselves in the position of alienating one another's supporters here. whoever is the nominee is going to need everybody that's at the convention. and frankly, you know, we would be better off if they weren't declaring one or the other of them or all three of them are somehow not appropriate presidential candidates. frankly, they all have a lot of individual accomplishments. they've all gotten down to the final three and what was a 17-man derby. they're pretty impressive. but they need to learn how to build bridges between one another, instead of walls. >> you used to be a pollster. if a pollster called you up and said, should the republican party nominate the person who has the most votes and most delegates going into the convention, even if it's not a majority, what would you say? >> well, first of all, i didn't see how the question was worded. i think that last part has always been a problem.

i think when you say, the person who's got the most votes, most people tend to think that is a majority. the problem, none of these candidates have a majority of the votes. the rules are pretty clear. you have to get a majority of the delegates. there's a variety of ways to do that. i think all these candidates or at least both trump and cruz have won caucuses and general elections or open primaries, alike. so, let's just play it out. but, again, i would advise all of them, don't start condemning the other person, because you're going to need those -- that person, you're going to need their supporters. >> do you think the convention has no choice but to only consider these three candidates? >> no. the rules are very clear. if none of them can get a majority of the votes, then the convention is free to choose whoever they want. now, my instinct would tell me that one of these three will get a majority of the votes. probably pretty early. probably, you know, no later than the third of fourth ballot. but for some reason you went

after that, well, look, the delegates there have been empowered to make that decision. now, they're bound to vote in honor of the primaries. i think they all will. but at some point, if there's competing candidates and nobody can get a majority, they might want to look someplace else. that's up to them. >> so you will support. if donald trump's the nominee, you're going to support him? >> i support the republican nominee, period. >> no matter what? >> no matter what. look, i'm going to be running with the republican nominee, if i'm fortunate enough to win my own primary. so, yeah, it's one of the reasons i stayed out of this thing. i don't want to be in the position of throwing darts at somebody that may well be head of the ticket i'm running on. so i think, again, you either play by the rules and accept the outcome, which i do, and support the nominee or not. and i've always supported the republican nominee. there's certainly no reason why i wouldn't do so this time. >> tom coleman, we'll leave it there. congressman from oklahoma, good to visit with you, sir.

thanks for your time. >> you got it, chuck. >> good talking with you. bernie sanders hits clinton on credibility as she tries to close a double-digit gap in new york. we'll hear the clinton campaign's reaction next. and next, philanthropist sir richard branson is my guest next. i believe the only knighted person i've had on the show yet. we'll discuss what he thinks of trump's campaign for the white house and more. he has some interesting things to say. stay tuned. ice, and that horrible smells are really good at hiding. oh, boy. there it is. ♪ ohh. ooh. [ gags ] so when you need a house cleaner or an exterminator, we can help you get the job done right, guaranteed. get started today at angie's list, because your home is where our heart is. ♪

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so we have to ask, if the goal of those anti-trump groups is to deny him a sweep of new york's 95 delegates, then where's the cavalry, guys? and where's the cash? on the democratic side, a little bit more money being spent. bernie sanders is outspending hillary clinton nearly two to one on ads in new york. his campaign has $2.3 million in ads versus $1.2 million for clinton. that kind of money can actually impact clinton's commanding lead. remains the to be seen. here's the bottom line, folks. the amount of money being spent on tv does not match the amount of hype we in the media are giving it to the new york primary. who do you believe? we'll be right back.

secretary clinton was a united states senator from your state, from new york state. she heard -- she listened to the same arguments from bush and cheney. her judgment was faulty. she voted for that disastrous

war. >> that was bernie sanders earlier today in rochester, new york, questioning hillary clinton's judgment. similar message that he had from sunday. after that rally, the sanders' campaign sent out a press release entitled this. they called it, clinton's credibility gap. and they hit clinton for saying yesterday that the highest per capita number of guns that end up committing crimes in new york came from vermont. "the washington post" gave that a three-pinocchio rating for that. "let's be very clear, this is a character attack. this is exactly what bernie sanders pledged to supporters he wouldn't do." and "bernie sanders, you can spend your day talking about the credibility gap, we'll be talking about the wage gap. happy equal payday." kasie hunt is in syracuse, new york, traveling with the sanders campaign. and kasie, before i will agree that somehow these are negative attacks, sanders has yet to attack her in paid television

advertising, correct? >> reporter: that's right, chuck. he has an ad up that eludes to those speeches. it's very similar to the one that he had up in iowa with that goldman sachs logo. her name is never mentioned, but the tie-in is pretty clear. >> so where do they think, at this point, all of these polls, pretty consistent, that hillary clinton has a durable lead in new york. it's not -- and it doesn't look like sanders is going to get the win that he's going to need to reset the race. >> i think that's right, chuck. and i think you can sense that on the campaign trail. one x-factor, i would say, is potentially these big rallies. wednesday, washington square park, prospect park in brooklyn on sunday, one in queens on monday. that's going to be in some ways the show of force that i think could create a sense of momentum, if there's going to be one. but i think that you're seeing a lot of signs of that difficulty kind of floating around in the ether, both from campaign staff

and also from bernie sanders, himself. that credibility gap press release that you mentioned, some of sanders' stronger language on the stump, on those wall street speeches, and other things. i think the tension about how the campaign is going to be run is right underneath the surface. and i think the question is what's the tone going to be going forward. >> so is that what you're sensing? >> reporter: my sense is, it's more on how to approach hillary clinton. you saw that with the candidate coming out with that "unqualified" statement. i know they have to hit back at her a little more aggressively. that has been an ongoing tension. but i think there's some tension about, if this isn't going to go our way, what's the best path towards resolution, for the democratic party, but also for bernie sanders, himself. >> all right. kasie hunt, on the sanders'

campaign, kasie, thanks very much. let me bring in brian fallon, press secretary for the clinton campaign. he joins me now. so brian, you characterize -- your campaign characterized what bernie sanders said as this personal attack, that you seem overly offended. me doth think you're protesting too much. are you really overly offended here? i know you're desperately trying to claim you're running a negative campaign against each other, but that doesn't meet in definition, at least in the year 2016, does it? >> well, let's take a deep breath and take stock of where we are, chuck. if you look at the beginning of this campaign, senator sanders said he would not engage in any personal attacks. and in just the last five days alone, senator sanders has attacked hillary clinton on, a, her qualifications, b, her judgment, and c, today, her credibility. if that's not a personal character attack, i don't know what is. and i think that the reason why it's come to this is for two reasons. number one, the sanders' campaign realizes that it's do or die in the new york primary.

they're past the point where they can tell a story any longer about momentum. they need to start winning these big delegate-rich states and winning big in order to cut into hillary clinton's lead. and secondly, in this make-or-break state of new york, they haven't had a good go of it. in fact, they got things started off on exactly the wrong foot with that "new york daily news" interview. the spotlight here is more intense than anyone else. and he's withering under the spotlight. i don't think the scrutiny he's holding up very well, under the scrutiny he's come in under new york. that's why you're seeing him lash out. chuck, i would just ask -- >> -- so disingenuous for one quick reason. among the things he's challenging her on is releasing the transcripts. he hasn't even released his tax returns yet. in fact, they have misrepresented the fact that they haven't released them and for any of the previous years. this campaign has defended the charge over the last few days, by suggesting falsely that he's released them for previous years. he hasn't. that was fact checking given several pinocchios today. >> something i made clear with him on sunday, only donald trump has released less tax

information of any candidate than bernie sanders. let me go back to this issue of judgment and credibility. that's for many voters, that's as important of a factor in deciding who to vote for, for president as anybody else. so if you question somebody's judgment or credibility, that's below the belt in presidential politics? isn't that what many a presidential campaigns should be about? >> look, chuck, i think that we can have a good faith disagreement on the issues. if senator sanders wants to say, when it comes to wall street reform, i believe we need to reform glass-steagall. that's my bottom line, and if you fall short of reinstating glass-steagall, you have it wrong. >> and by the way, that's a judgment call. that's a way of attack -- >> it's an issue -- >> how about a personal attack? >> it's an issue contrast. right now he is going around questioning her motives and questioning her fitness to hold the office that she's seeking. i think that is below the belt, yes. >> all right. well, brian fallon, i will leave it there.

still ahead, sir richard branson joins me with his take on the u.s. election, the global war on drugs, which he's taking a big role in. and much more. it's worth a listen. stay tuned. (gasp) shark diving! xerox personalized employee portals help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing? cliff jumping! human resources can work better. with xerox. which allergy? eees. bees? eese. trees? eese. xerox helps hospitals use electronic health records so doctors provide more personalized care. cheese? cheese! patient care can work better. with xerox. that's it.

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on non-violent drug charges in 2014 alone. later this month, the u.n. general assembly is hoping to tackle drug problems worldwide in a special assembly. one advocate says the war on drugs has actually been a war on people, and it's time to put government in charge of the drug markets. who wrote that? sir richard branson wrote the introduction to a new collection of essays called "ending the war on drugs." well, the philanthropist and founder of the virgin group joins me now. it's a pleasure, sir. >> thank you for having us. >> let's start with this phrase and what it means, war on drugs. when you say that -- when you hear that phrase, what drugs do you assume we're talking about? because i think that -- sometimes the starting point needs to be, what are we talking about? what drugs? >> yeah, so, the war on drugs has been going on for 60 years. and if a business -- if i'd had a business that had failed for 60 years, i would have closed it down 59 years ago. it's created untold misery and

it's had so many casualties. so what the global drug commissioner has done, and the global drug commission is 15 ex-presidents, kofi annan and other people, we've studied the war on drugs and have come up with recommendations. and what we're seeing, if you treat drugs as a health problem, if your children had a drug problem, if your brothers or sisters have a drug problem, you wouldn't want them sent to prison, you would want them helped. and what we're urging governments to do is to treat drugs as a health problem and if somebody has a problem, help them, don't criminalize them. >> there's a little bit of a movement of that. obviously, we want to re-do our criminal justice laws in this country to reflect that a little bit. but it seems you want to see another step. which is, okay, let's -- is this a full-fledged, legalizing all -- >> what the global commission is urging is that governments around the world and states around the world experiment with

different approaches. the current approach has definitely failed. so we welcome, for instance, medical marijuana centers being set up in different states in america. we welcome some states legalizing marijuana, so we can actually see the effects. we welcome in portugal -- and i want to give you one radical example. in portugal, they had a massive heroin problem in the year 2000, just like america has today. really major heroin problem. and what the prime minister has said, he went on television and said, look, anybody who has a heroin problem, do not be frightened. stop breaking and entering into people's homes. come to centers that we're going to set up around portugal. we will give you your heroin fix. we will make sure that you have a clean needle and you don't get hiv or hepatitis. we will oversee your injections, so you don't overdose, and when you're ready to come off, we will help you get supervised help. and in that -- in the following

ten years, almost -- the heroin problem almost disappeared. and, you know, it used to be number three on the political agenda, now 21. it's just completely disappeared. so somewhere like america should look and learn from these things. and bring similar experiments on the hard drugs, as well as the soft drug. >> what do we do with an afghanistan? and i'll throw them, or even, i know, colombia is still having a problem with trying to get rural farmers to stop growing, so in afghanistan, it's the issue, of course, of growing the crops you need for opium. in colombia, it's coco crops, obviously what you need for cocaine. and they've tried to get them off of these crops, but it hasn't worked. how do we deal with that? >> we shouldn't be interfering with other countries. i mean, i think, one of the problems that america has had is that it's tried to -- it's the main consumer of drugs, and it's tried to impose its philosophies on other countries.

sometimes, in a military way, and all sorts of different ways to try to stamp it out. what america should be doing is getting its own drug policies in place, in america. like, when probation of alcohol existed, al capone set up -- america was, you know, drinking as much as ever, but all the money was going to the under -- >> the black market. >> black market, right. and people like kennedy were selling alcohol illegally and making their fortune on the back of it. when they legalized, there may have been one or two more casualties than before, but there were an awful lot of drunk people when it was prohibited. but most of the problems went away. and the same, you know, if you can decriminalize other drugs, most of the problems will go away. there will be maybe one or two casualties, which may not have existed. there'll be an awful lot less casualties, like there won't be 1.8 million people in american

prisons, for instance. >> let me shift gears here a little bit. and i'm just curious if your perspective as a global business leader. the impact of donald trump on the perception of america around the world. >> it hasn't been good. he's come out with a lot of comments which make, i think, most people in the world feel very uncomfortable about. for one thing, free trade, you know, free trade has worked for america. and if you're going to put up walls around america and stop free trade, america will suffer. >> but there's a lot of middle class -- the middle class in a lot of western democracies, not just here in the united states, but in the uk, a lot in western europe, is feeling that same angst, right? they feel as if these trade agreements have hurt them personally. how do you tell them that they haven't? >> i'm just telling you, as a business person, the, you know, for instance, look, i wanted to come and set up an airline in america.

because i'm english, so i had to give the majority of the shares away to an american. okay, but they, but for ten years, we were a great airline in america, we competed, everybody loved virgin america. and now, you know, the people who had the majority of those shares have sold those shares. and hopefully, alaska, they've sold them and will continue to be good. but i think, you know, our very being of coming here and setting up -- >> you wish you could have owned this airline? >> i'm saying, i think we benefited, by us being able to come and trade, we've benefitted the traveling public who love the airline. and, you know, one shouldn't have false barriers put up. the more we can treat the world as one world rather than a separate country with borders, the better. >> and let me get your take on europe right now. it feels as if there's a migration crisis, there's, obviously, the uk may pull out of the eu, altogether. what's -- what's your take on

what's going to happen? >> well, i'll be very sad, it's the uk pulled out of the eu. i mean, we've had -- before my generation, my father was at war with germany. my grandfather was gassed in the trenches, against germany. my great grandfather was fighting. my great great grandpa, and so on. since the eu's been formed, we've had no wars, we've worked together to -- for the betterment of the world. we are one big trading block. it's been great. we can negotiate with other trading blocks. and, it has generally worked. i mean, it's so easy to -- for politicians to stand up and come to the table and -- but the end result, if we pulled out, i think would be disastrous for great britain. >> you know, in many ways, you've been one of the leaders in using your platform as a head

of a corporation to influence social policy, right? whether it's on climate change or gay rights, what's the -- and today you're lending your hand to the issue of the war on drugs. where's this headed? and is -- do you want more corporations to join you on this? >> yes. we've set up something recently called the b-team. which is wonderful people, and yet the idea is to try to get every single business in this world, whether they're small, medium-sized, or big, to adopt a problem. and get out there and use their entrepreneurial skills to get on top of the problems of the world. and i think, you know, if businesses can join with the social sector and with governments, we can wipe out pretty much every problem that the world has, and it will be great fun in the process. >> sounds overly optimistic. >> no -- >> why is that not pollyannish? you're a pretty optimistic guy. i get that. >> no, because, look.

if you look at the millennial development goals, you know, those were goals that were set, and a lot of them have been achieved. and now we've got the usdgs and a lot of those will be achieved. and i think -- i mean, it is, every decade, we've had about 600 million more people coming out of poverty. so i -- businesspeople look at things differently than politicians, they look at things differently than the social sector. and i think the three working together, we can sort most problems of the world out. >> richard branson, i'll leave it there. very interesting and provocative essay you have on the war on drugs. and it's hitting at a time a lot of people are having these conversations. >> cheers. >> richard branson, thank you. oh! yurt. yes! earthy... just rustic. [laughing] oh my gosh. wow. [owl howling] [gulp]

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or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. . both donald trump and hillary clinton appear on track to win new york's primary next tuesday. how it all shakes out, we'll see. but if those results do shake out that way, it will add to a growing pattern of trump and clinton scoring victories in the same states. take a look at today's map. 15 out of trump's 20 wins have come in states that clinton also won. and 15 out of clinton's 18 wins have come in states that trump has also won. similar story for sanders and cruz. eight of cruz's ten victories, including colorado state convention, have come in states that sanders has won. and eight of sanders' 16 wins have come in states that cruz has also won. now, there are various reasons for this.

one, where do party activists hang out, where don't they? has it been a base vote, test, caucuses? it's fascinating, this overlap, and i think it's more than just a coincidence. little something for you to think about and you can go ahead and tweet me your theories as the to why this is. we'll be right back.

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happen. i can tell you that. they should be ashamed of themselves. because it has nothing to do with democracy. they took the votes away from the people in colorado. you have to show the republican party that they can't get away with this stuff any longer. >> that was donald trump, just a few minutes ago, with brand new anti-rnc rhetoric. time for the lid. sarah flores, worked with the fiorina campaign and mark is a senior political editor here. i'm going to start with you, sarah. the leadi what do you do? >> he bashes everyone he feels is standing in his way, whether his fellow candidates, the r nc. he sent the -- he was trying to

get washington state delegates and sent it to d.c. people instead. oops. this is the guy that said he would hire the best, and he can't get anything right. >> but what about this issue, he is calling -- >> it is a mess for the rnc. i think they'll do fine through it. it just sort of undermines trump moving forward, he continues to whine about these issues. it will put the rnc in a bit of a stronger position heading into the convention that someone has to take control of this. >> you are an optimist. do you believe it puts him in a -- you know, trump, i think trump thinks he has found a winning message here, don't you think. >> it's the same message over the last several months, antiestablishment message. every someone playing into it. the same with bernie sanders, his crowds go after the dnc. the am he message that people a trying to keep that way from me. hey, colorado didn't have a caucus or primary, they're

taking it away. all of us here know that colorado held its contest, it was clear how it would -- how the delegates would be awarded. >> colorado, the state republican party couldn't get its act together and couldn't decide in a contest, so they said forget it, we won't have one. >> for months, everyone knew how it would be in colorado. >> none of these rules are hiding. >> correct. >> they're hiding -- >> they're on the back of the box. you can read them before you play the game. >> that doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. the fact that every state has different rules, again, private institution, they can have any rules they want. it is antiquated. when you start digging in, i can see why he is frustrated as an amateur outsider. >> what's really strike something that trump -- i mean, we look at it and say rules are rules. you should learn them and learn to win by them. >> right. >> i think that his message is resonating with voters. look at the polls. the polls are suggesting that the voters are not going for

this. they don't go for 1,237. they want the person to get the nomination who has the most delegates, even if it's not -- >> a powerful message for him. most votes, did i say majority? nobody heard majority. >> how long can he go back to that well and whining. >> the problem is, cruz's message is -- that's playing into the hands -- >> look, i am not a donald trump advocate, okay. i'm not even playing one on tv. the reality is, that message is a more powerful, more resonant message that the rules are rules message. >> let's talk about paul ryan today. did he successfully take himself out of the running. >> it was as definitive you can get in american politics. you saw maybe the little wiggle room. >> i think he tried to shut the door. >> i think he got as close from politicians. one of the biggest reasons he

had to do this, he'll be the chairman of the republican convention. he needs to close the door as much as you can in today's politics. >> let's play the white knight game. after ryan, who else? about the only name i've been able to come up with that could unite multiple wings of the party is mike pence, the governor of indiana. >> ground swell. >> who could be an acceptable -- maybe mitch daniels. >> i think ryan's removal of himself from the scene, which i think was definitive and a smart move for him to do, actually ties into the other conversation that we'll be having. if it turns out that 1,237s actually the rule and despite the view of majority republican voters, that the person with the most should get the nomination, they could maybe live with somebody else who has fewer than trump getting the nomination, but they can't live with somebody who hasn't run. so i think this whole hunt for a

white knight is a kind of red herring. >> did paul ryan provide the correct blueprint, which is hey, the nominee should be somebody who has run? doesn't mean actively running, but somebody who has run the cycle. i felt ryan was signalling, if you want somebody else, look to marco rubio, jeb bush, don't look to me. >> i think you're right. i think on the first ballot, we won't have a 1,237, i think the second ballot, ted cruz gets it. this talk will be fun for tv shows and par llor games. >> a second ballot, never happened in my lifetime thing, so don't try to -- oh, its gaelgs going to be done in a second or third ballot. >> sunday votes and stuff. i don't think we're doing anything on sunday voting. >> if we're going to get to 14 ballots, you're going to be narrating the 15th. >> narrating. >> the entire time.

>> fdr said after the first 100, it gets easier. >> a big day for sherman. >> always to get him in there, any way. mark, sarah, ruth, thank you, all. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm mark halperin. >> i'm john helemann. with all due respect to paul ryan. >> i want to put this to rest once and for all. let me be clear. i do not want, nor will i accept the nomination for our party. count me out. let me say again. i am not going to be our party's nominee. i should not be considered, period, end of story. >> so you're saying there is a chance.