steve? >> kelly o'donnell, thanks for that. and remember this, tomorrow night, 7:00 eastern time, chris matthews is going to moderate an exclusive town hall with john kasich. you are going to want to tune in for that, tomorrow night on msnbc. that's going to do it for us this hour. i'm steve kornacki and "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's wednesday, it's a scam, a disgrace, aphon a phony. those are just some of the words donald trump is using to describe the road to the republican nomination. can trashing the rules and the people that make him still help him get the nomination from the party that's writing these rules? will they be able to handle him bashing them all the way to cleveland? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now.

>> good evening. i'm chuck todd here this new york city and welcome to "mtp daily." we are just six days away from the delegate-rich new york primary, taking place in the center of the media universe. it's the home turf for three of the remaining candidates. and the first time in a generation that this state's primary might actually matter, or at least we in the media are telling you that it matters. we'll see if the candidates take it as seriously as the media does. but that said, new york does find itself playing a rare second fiddle tonight, to the big game in town. donald trump versus the rnc. the trump campaign continues to unload on his own party's nominates process. here's trump last night at a rally in new york. >> a republican system is absolutely rigged. it's a phoney deal. these are dirty tricksters. this is a dirty stick. and i'll tell you what. the rnc, the republican national committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. i can tell you that.

they should be ashamed of themselves. >> but he didn't stop there. here's trump a few hours later. >> you called them shenanigans. those are the rules. didn't you know those rules? >> i know the rules very well, but i know that it's stacked against me, by the establishment. i fully understood pit. >> you're saying you don't think the rnc wants you to get the nomination? >> i don't think so, i really don't. >> and here's trump's chief convention manager, paul manafort, just minutes later on fox. >> we're going to be filing several credentials challenges and you know, whether we win on the challenges or not, the point is, what's happening is if you go to these meetings and you're not a cruz supporter, you don't want to be a republican when you leave, because they're so abused. >> in an interview with "the hill" newspaper, trump ripped rnc chairman reince priebus, saying the party's nominating process is a disgrace for the party and priebus should be ashamed of himself. he should ashamed of himself because he knows what's going on. it's important to give a little backstory here. it's not the first time that

trump has picked a fight to steer the narrative away from bad news, in this case his recent delegate woes. and this isn't the first time trump has used priebus as a punching bag. last summer, after priebus reportedly told trump in a private phone call to soften his tone, trump brushed him aside saying, he knows better than to lecture me. we're not dealing with a five-star army general. we all remember trump's proudly displaying the rnc's loyalty pledge that priebus got him to sign last fall. he, of course, abandoned it just a few months later, much to have the frustration of the rnc. all through it, though, priebus has gone to great lengths to avoid any direct confrontation with trump. be this seemses to be different, with trump questioning the entire process of the rnc and its infrastructure, you could argue that it didn't leave priebus much of a choice. so priebus did something he hadn't done before. he pushed back at trump and he tweeted this. quote, the nomination process has been known for a year and beyond. it's the responsibility of the campaigns to understand it, complaints now give us all a

break. pretty tough words from priebus. but here's a reality check for the rnc. priebus is stuck between a rock and a hard place. he has to deal with trump's attacks, but the rnc is supposed to be the umpire of the game. and let's face it. in poll after poll, a majority of republican voters side with trump's argument that a candidate with the most vote os for most delegates should be the nominee. majorities be damned, despite what the rules themselves say. and remember, the republican party is a private organization. they can set these rules. and believe it or not, trying to rei rein in the front-runner was the first headache. today on "morning joe," randy evans appeared to totally discount the cornerstone of the entire nominating process. take a listen. >> what i do expect to happen is this. is that if donald trump exceeds 1,100 votes, he will become the nominee, even though he may not have 1,237. if he gets less than 1,000 delegates,

looking at a contested convention that could go on for many, many days. >> boy, that was quite the statement. let's unpack it. folks, the trump campaign has been aggressively trying to move the goalpost back from that 1,237 magic number. this morning, it sounded as if a member of the rnc rules committee had just done it for them. but not so fast. those comment s prompted a full-force pushback operation inside the gop. spokesman michael short tweeted this, you need 1,237. period. no ands, ifs, or buts. sean spicer reiterated and added, "the gop will have a nominee only when a candidate reaches a majority of delegates, which is 1,237." and evans himself hit the phone with reporters to reiterate that 1,237 is the number that a candidate needs to get the nomination. but the rnc may need to figure out a more effective way to combat trump's criticism that the rules are unfair. and trump may have an advantage, because he's taking his argument to the court of public opinion,

the voter. the rnc may pull the levers, but trump pulls the crowds. let's start with katy tur in pittsburgh, where trump is getting ready for a prime-time rally. katy, first of all, first trek outside of new york in some time. is this back to sort of the old trump ways? >> reporter: well, remember, donald trump does also need pennsylvania. he needs to get 61% of the delegates to get to that magic number of 1,237. so, pennsylvania has about 71. but 54 of them are unbound delegates. and donald trump doesn't only have to come out here and convince voters, which he has in throngs, he's got to find a way to make some deals with those unbound delegates and so far, ted cruz has been doing a much better job of that. just look at louisiana. and look at crop. >> now, katie, it does seem to be, they made a strategic decision in the trump campaign to go ahead and elevate this argument and to try to make it look as if that even though maybe cruz is interpreting the rules better than trump is, that

they want to make anything that looks like a denial of trump an attack on the integrity of the process. >> reporter: absolutely. they are speaking directly to the voter who feels alienated from the system. who feels like washington doesn't represent them. and by saying the rules aren't fair or the rules are against me or they don't favor an outsider or i'm not part of this establishment and that's why i'm not winning, he's talking directly to folk who agree with him, who feel that same way. and that's why he's getting so many of these large-scale rallies, because these are folks who completely agree with the idea that washington is an insider place, where only the insiders get what they want, and the people who come in and try to change it can't get anything done, because they're not a part of the popular crowd, essentially. and donald trump is fighting against that. and by arguing this whole, the rules aren't fair thing, it's really working for him. but if he doesn't get to 1,237 delegates, and the party does try to take it away from him,

because those are the rules, crying foul will get him maybe some points in the minds of voters, but it's not going to get him the nomination. >> it's actually a pattern in his business life, as well. when things aren't going right, he likes to question the fundament also of the rules and different aspects of it. katy tur on the road in pittsburgh, thank you very much. let me go to guy who understands the rules of this process. ben ginsburg, attorney for the party and for multiple presidential candidates and of course, now an msnbc political analyst. ben, just to give us a refresher here, as any rules changed in this nominating process in the last two years? states have been submitting their delegate process, their delegate selection process, they had to do it, i believe, by the end of '14. so every campaign knew the rules in every state at what date? >> well, all the rules were submitted as of september of last year. the republican national committee, itself, did some

modifying of the rules in 2014. but those rules have been set for a while. >> and nothing has changed in the rules? so there's nothing to this idea that somehow, it's being rigged or something's being changed, because of donald trump. >> so i think there are two things involved here, chuck. first of all, the rules for the convention, the rules under which someone will be nominated and get the nomination will actually be done by the convention, when it meets in cleveland. so that all the questions about majority of delegates or plurality of delegates is right for the old rules. it hasn't been set yet for the new rules. the second process that's going on is what's happening in individual states, is they pick the people who will actually be in cleveland, the delegate selection process. so, the rules for the colorado convention were set, whether those rules were followed or not, is, i think, the credentials challenge that the trump campaign's talking about. >> have you noticed, okay, you

were somebody, you've been curious to see how the trump campaign would do at these weekend events. and obviously, they were getting their clock cleaned for a while. have you noticed a change now that manafort's in charge? >> well, i think i've noticed a change that's come in time. they did a lot of good hiring, starting about a month ago. paul's hiring increased that. they hired rick wiley, who was a guy i worked with on the walker campaign today. >> and the rnc political director, four years ago. >> an rnc political director, who certainly knows these rules, because we had them all zoscope out for the walker campaign. so i know rick knows them. >> speaking of rick wiley, i'll have the first interview with him as a trump staffer tomorrow on "meet the press daily." ben ginsburg, thanks very much. i'm joined now by former new york governor and former republican presidential candidate, george pataki. >> good afternoon, chuck. nice being on with you. >> i want to talk about this trump thing for a second. you hear him talk about the rules. you've dealt with him as a

government-to-business guy, when he's trying to develop something, or when he's come to you with a plan. what do you make of this? >> this is classic donald trump. it has nothing to do with the rules and everything to do with him. he is the ultimate spoiled rich kid. he's used to getting his way. and if things don't go his way, it's not because perhaps he didn't understand or follow the rules. it's not because some of these people don't like him, it's because somebody rigged the system. and it's just, it's absurd on its face, but it's donald trump, and it's one of the many reasons i think he's not fit to be president. >> let me go to devil's advocate here. what do you tell the voter, that goes, wait a minute, so -- and they didn't fully know. why should they? they're finding out, so my vote wasn't really for him. it's for this that elects a delegate that may not -- >> it was a convention following the same rules in colorado that they followed four years ago. everybody going to that convention -- >> i get it. what do you tell the -- >> he's trying to mislead the rest of the people into thinking, somehow, even though he didn't go to colorado, he didn't have a whole lot of

support in colorado, it wasn't his fault that he didn't win the convention. >> so you have no empathy here at all? >> absolutely not. >> he lost, and when he loses, it can't be about him, because he's so brilliant, it's got to be because somebody acted wrongfully. >> you have so far not endorsed. you don't sound like you're going to be a trump supporter. >> i'm not a trump supporter. >> so it sounds like you're going to pick between ted cruz and john kasich? >> i'm a republican and i think either cruz or casic would be infinitely better than donald trump. >> what are you making your decision on? i know you say you haven't endorsed. you have to meet with ted cruz, right? >> first of all, we have to nominate somebody who can win in the fall. how about the super delegate on the democratic side, where bernie sanders wins primary after primary, and gets totally crewed with the super delegates. >> both parties are private institutions. they can set their rules and they've written these rules for years. >> the republican rules are far fairer in reflect public opinion than the democratic rules.

but having said that, i want somebody who can win and i want somebody who can bring americans together. this is a divided country. not because of the people, but because of the political leadership. we have to get beyond that. >> what's your evidence that cruz can win? >> you look at the national polls, trump gets crushed. and in the process, brings down republicans all over the country. cruz is very close. kasich wins. so i think they both, as more about hillary comes out -- >> you feel like they both can make an electability argument? >> absolutely. they can both make an electability argument. >> what about a governing argument? >> you have to be able to governor. john kasich has shown that. he's been a governor of a major state, and a very successful governor with huge democratic support. >> what about ted cruz? >> i think ted cruz has the right vision of a constitutional republic, again reclaiming washington from the corrupting influences of the powerful influences in washington. and i think that's something that americans can rally behind. even bernie sanders voters, you know, they're not necessarily ideologically to the left.

>> what's your hesitance of why you haven't done it yet for cruz or kasich? >> you have to have the ability to win. not just the general election, but you have to have a chance to win the nomination. and i think all this fight over the rules with trump, i think it shows he's starting to show he's going to have enough support to win the nomination. that's a positive thing. >> are you going to be able to support trump if he's the nominee? >> he's not going to be the nominee. >> are you able to support trump if he's the nominee? >> we'll have to look at that if it happens. i hope it doesn't. >> so you would ponder sitting out the election? >> i expect that i will vote for the republican, i just pray it's not donald trump. >> governor george -- when will we expect your endorsement? >> the next day or two. >> the primary's coming up. >> six days to go. there's time. >> fair enough. we'll wait for it in a day or two. governor pataki, thanks for stopping by. appreciate it. coming up, north carolina's governor signs new orders to increase protections for lbgt workers. but is it enough to stop the corporate backlash from the state's so-called bathroom bill? stay tuned.

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talk about a sign of the times. in this era of increasingly partisan politics, we've got a new look of just how divided the country is. take a look at today's map. right now, there are only 15 states where the two senators come from different parties. this is according to an analysis from our friends at the university of minnesota's smart politics blog. that's nearly half of what it was in 1980. and we expect it to reach a record low after this november. here's why, overall, there are 34 senate seats up for election in 2016. 12 of those are in states with split delegations. eight of those seats that look most likely to change parties in november have split delegations. six are potential pickups from the republicans and two are potential pickups from the republicans. if all eight of those seats flip this november, the next congress could be even more polarizing and there'll be a record low for split delegations. you want to know what's wrong with polarization and why we

don't have bipartisanship, this is it. that record was last set by the 84th congress in the mid-50s when just nine states had split senate delegations. and we didn't even have 50 states then. if two of those split, the senate will see its lowest number of split delegations since 1958. this may seem arcane, but if you want to know why nothing get done in the united states senate, look at that. we'll be right back with more "mtp daily."

don't let a cracked windshield ruin your plans. trust safelite. with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" you'll know exactly when we'll giving you more time for what matters most. (team sing) ♪safelite repair, safelite replace.♪ . well, after nearly three weeks of growing national backlash to north carolina's so-called bathroom law, governor pat mccrory is now making some changes. mccrory signed an executive order that strengthens workplace protections for state employees. he also urged the state legislature to modify part of the law that takes away lbgt people's ability to sue for workplace discrimination. take a listen. >> the state took action on what was seen as government overreach. you know, after listening to people's feedback during the past several weeks on this

issue, i have come to the conclusion that there's a great deal of misinformation, misinterpretation, confusion, passion, and, frankly, selective outrage and hypocrisy, especially against the great state of north carolina. but based on this feedback, i am taking action to affirm the state's commitment to privacy and equality. >> the state's attorney general, democrat roy cooper, who happens to be running for governor against mccrory slammed mccrory saying it's a day late and a veto short. he said, the sweeping discrimination law he sign has cost hundreds in jobs and millions in revenue. bill richardson who voted for the law now says he had a change of heart and calls the law, quote, overreaching and unnecessary. in an op-ed, he also wrote this, quote win made the wrong vote and we must now make it right. joining me now is nbc justice

correspondent, pete williams. pete, let me start with the executive order that the north carolina governor put together. did it, did it actually clarify some things, or is the legislature going to need to essentially pass the clarifications that he wrote into his executive order? >> it doesn't change the bathroom bill part at all. the governor's powerless to do that now, of course, because he signed the bill, and now it's the law. on the nondiscrimination question, he -- the executive order on its face says that state employees can now sue for discrimination, if they're fired for reasons or discriminated against because of sexual orientation or lbgt issues, transgender issues. some of the legal experts that look at this say it doesn't quite do that, so we're going to have to see if it actually does, but he says that's what he wanted to do, was to give that to state employees. but it only applies to people who work for the state. as for the other part, trying to persuade the legislature to restore the ability to sue for

discrimination, he may feel that a lot was taken away by this law, that it affected more than just sexual orientation and transgender issues, that it may weaken the ability to sue for racial discrimination and so forth. so perhaps they really do want the legislature to change this. the follow-on, whether how much he works to try to get the legislature to do it, i think, will be the big question. but on the main part, there's nothing he can do. and he continues, of course, to be in a box because of the backlash you mentioned, just within the last couple of hours, ringo starr became the latest person to cancel a concert in north carolina. >> i was just going to say, he did this executive order last night. has it had any positive impact on the state yet, in his favor? you know -- >> not that -- >> no, not that we can tell. you know, it may take a while to soak in, and people may have to decide whether there's anything -- any real teeth here, whether that makes a real difference.

and for most people in north carolina, it won't. it could make a difference for state employees. >> okay. pete williams, our justice correspondent. pete, thanks very much. i want to bring in travis webber, director for the center for religious liberty at the family research council, and eunice rowe, the aclu's advocacy and policy counsel here with me in new york. mr. webber, let me start with you and ask you on what the governor did, do you think that was a -- a helpful executive order that he signed last night? or do you think he unduly harmed the law? >> well, i do think the order was helpful. you know, the order clarified some things and it actually adds protections for the state government, regarding sexual orientation. the fact that so many on the far left are still unhappy with this, still think it's a problem, shows how out of touch they are with legitimate concerns, regarding many parents on the bathroom issue across the state, for a number of reasons, and the fact the law is quite

reasonable in providing accommodations. so i don't think this is really a problem at all, in i current form. >> eunice, same question to you. the executive order, do you feel like it clarified some things in the law that you wanted to see happen? >> you know, the new executive order, unfortunately, is a failure on three different fronts. first is, it does nothing to walk back the harmful discriminatory provisions on transgender people and their ability to use bathrooms, in public facilities across the state, including schools, airports, and other government facilities. secondly, it does nothing, again, to undo the fact that localities cannot pass protections for their own lbgt citizens, just the way charlotte did, or, of course, pass other local ordinances that would extend protections beyond what the state would allow. and finally, it also, it also, you know, it says that it extends protections to state employees based on sexual orientation and gender identity, but given that transgender

public employees cannot use the bathroom in accordance with their gender identity, we call into question that gender identity protection for state employees. >> mr. webber, let me unpack a couple of things that miss rowe just said, but first, let me start with this issue of preventing local governments from having their own ordinances. this does seem counter to sort of conservative government philosophy. which is, smaller, local control. this was the state deciding it didn't like what a locality was doing. >> sure, well, you know, if you look at the charlotte ordinance, which this addressed, that ordinance was very, very problematic. number one, it had no religious liberty protections at all. it allowed for gender expression and gender identity, which will result in a host of confusing problems. while this characterization is apt, you know, that you laid out regarding localities, let me point out, too, that this does not prevent localities from making an accommodation regarding specific situations that arise.

all it says is that people should use the bathroom of their biological sex. you know, i really don't think that's too troublesome in light of the many concerns on various sides of this issue, and the problems we've seen when gender-neutral bathrooms have been opened up. >> but mr. webber, i -- the part of this law that i've struggled with is how do you enforce the bathroom law? >> well, you know, i think it's a good question. it's a good question for folks who are pushing these bathroom laws around the country. for a long time, we've been fine with having bathrooms, you know, determined by sex. and we really have not had too many problems. i mean, there's a reason we do this, for many, many reasons. in schools, other facilities, many involving children, locker rooms, and their bathrooms. you know, i think the burden is definitely on people who want to change that scenario, to show why, you know, it should be changed. >> but you're basically admitting, there's really no way to enforce this law. >> well, i think there's certainly a way to enforce it. i mean, all this is doing, remember, is leaving the

status -- putting the status quo into law. it says that, you know, local governments shall have this regime. it doesn't say anything about private companies. they can do whatever they want with regard to the bathrooms. but it provides for an accommodation for specific scenarios as they arise. this is the way we have had things, this is the way things have been regarding bathrooms for a long time. this isn't really changing a lot here. >> miss rowe, let me go to the question that mr. webber brought up when he said he thought the charlotte ordinance did not have any protections for religious liberty, what do you say to that? >> the charlotte ordinance protected its lbgt citizens from public accommodations, employment, and in housing. we have had a long history in this country of ensuring that all public accommodations are open to people, regardless of who they are, and that they serve everybody equally. so there's no reason to re-visit that issue. and i also want to address mr. webber's very misguiding and harmful statements about transgender people. you know, there are hundreds of jurisdictions across the country

that have passed public accommodations protections for lgt people. none of the fearmongering incidents that he is raising have ever happened. and you know, transgender students deserve protections, too. they deserve the freedom to learn and make friends and attend schools, just like any other student. >> mr. webber, let me ask you this, go back, to follow up on miss rowe's point there. isn't it more disruptive if you're making somebody who's uncomfortable going into a bathroom of their biological birth, but they identify with the other gender, isn't it -- aren't you, perhaps, creating a situation where it becomes more problematic for that person? >> well, no, i don't think so, at all. i mean, look. this law has an accommodation that can be made. we have to remember the discomfort that girls will have in terms of someone who's a boy coming into their locker room. to her point, to her claim, we've had incidents.

we've had incidents around this issue. a number of girls walked out of a high school in the midwest because of discomfort regarding this. the university of toronto has gender-neutral bathrooms. they had boys in there filming the girls in the bathroom. i mean, seattle has taken advantage of that law in that area now. all i'm saying is, there are many complex issues here that have arisen. there are problems, and this shouldn't be rammed through, as if everyone who has legitimate concerns is opposing it for an absolutely irrational reason. >> miss rowe, respond to that final point. there is, what do you do about the folks that essentially just aren't krcomfortable with this? >> i want to address, the ramming through really happened with house bill 2, that was introduced and passed in less than 24 hours in a special session that cost the state over $40,000. as opposed to the charlotte ordinance, which was considered over a number of years after considerable debate and public input. and so that is misleading. and you know, there's a lack of familiarity with transgender people that, you know, organizations like the family

research count and others are trying to exploit for political and other gain. i want to point out, there was a religious liberty bill that governor mccory vetoed last year, that would have allowed government employees to deny marriage licenses for same-sex couples. we see governor mccrory taking a different political calculus in a year that he's up for re-election. this is nothing but political cynicism, preying on fears about the unfamiliar. >> i'm going to pause it there. i don't think this debate is going to get sorted out, but you guys have been terrific at representing each side. i appreciate it. travis webber, eunice rowe, thank you for coming on. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, bernie sanders walks the picket lines with verizon workers, while hillary clinton courts the minority vote in new york city. top supporters from both sides join me next. stay tuned.

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new york labor unions were front and center today in the democratic race for president. both hillary clinton and bernie sanders were standing with striking verizon workers, nearly 40,000 walked off their jobs

after a breakdown in contract negotiations. clinton slammed verizon's management in a statement, and she just met with workers on a picket line right now, actually. sanders joined a picket line in brooklyn earlier today. >> greedy, profitable corporation who wants to outsource good-paying jobs, who wants to take health care benefits from its workers, but somehow, they do have enough money to probably pay their ceo $20 million a year. this union, these workers are standing up for is justice and i stand with them today. >> also today, clinton picked up the backing of a new york city electrical worker's union and sanders was endorsed by the city's transit workers' union. sanders also picked up his first endorsement from a fellow u.s. senator. it's jeff merkley of oregon. and another first for sanders, he announced today he's using his formidable fund-raising machine to help others, including democratic house candidates. he asked supporters for donations to help three progressive women get elected to

congress. zephyr teachout of new york, programila jayapal, and lucy florist out of new york. and clinton is working to strengthen her support. speaking at the national action network today, that's al sharpton's group, she took aim at trump and cruz. >> america's long struggle with racism is far from finished. and we are seeing that in this election. when the front-runner for the republican nomination was asked in a national television interview to disavow david duke and other white supremacists supporting his campaign, he played coy. and not to be outdone by his primary rival, ted cruz would treat muslim americans like criminals and religiously profile their neighborhoods.

>> two supporters for each of the democratic candidates join me now. congressman hakim jeffries of new york. he supports hillary clinton and state representative david bowen of wisconsin has endorsed senator sanders. congressman jeffries, let me start with you. just give me the basic reason why you picked hillary clinton over bernie sanders, and is the simply because she was a senator from new york? >> not at all. hillary clinton is clearly the one candidate who's ready, willing, and able with the qualifications to take the baton from president barack obama, build upon his progress, and keep the country moving forward. and she's got a long history and track record of working on issues of importance to the african-american community. she started her career, chuck, as you know, as a young lawyer, with the children's defense fund. she went into the deep south and worked hard to reverse the situation, where young african-american teenage boys, 13 and 14 years old, were being housed in adult prisons. and then in arkansas, she helped to start a civil legal svices program, that provided support

and legal representation to thousands of indigent individuals, many of whom were african-american. and then of course in the 1990s, she was responsible in large measure for helping to put into place the children's health insurance program, providing millions of millions of individuals with health insurance, many of them african-american. and then, of course, as a united states senator for eight years, consistently worked on issues of importance to the african-american community, such as dealing with racial profiling, criminal justice reform, reversing the disparity between crack cocaine and powder cocaine. she's got a tremendous track record of success, and that's why i'm confident she's the best person to be our president. >> state representative, same question to you. why did you pick sanders over hillary clinton? >> thank you, todd, for being on your show. it's an honor to be on "meet the press" after years of watching you. let me highlight the fact that senator sanders won wisconsin handedly. and that really shows our

electorate where i am elected as a state representative and as a super delegate, as the second highest member of the -- ranking member of the democratic party, that they are interested in political revolution. now, this means that we're making bold changes to politics as we know it. and that means removing big money out of the process, so that the regular, hard-working americans in our country can actually have their voices heard, their votes counted, and we know that the interest of campaign finance reform has to happen, that those things have to come out of the process, so that regular people can have their voice again, and he's stopping on that bold platform. >> all right, i want to follow up with both of you on various things. state representative bowen, let me start with you. you used senator sanders' term, revolution. and i have wondered if one of the reasons why senator sanders is not yet leading, and maybe he will, but one of the reasons

he's not is because there are a lot of democrats who say, we don't need a revolution. we've had eight years of president obama. we need somebody who's going to continue the obama legacy. what do you say to that? what do you say to folks who love president obama, who think, what are you revolting from? >> well, we also know that the opposition that our president, barack obama, has had to fully outlive his agenda, has been staunch, right? and we know that there are many people in politics that only are beholden to the people that fund their campaign coffers. we know for a fact that if we have living wade jobs in our community, something, our opposition has been fiercely opposed to, we know of the investment that follows into our communities is not there, we can't have a thriving economy. and we also know that many people are frustrated with status quo politics. and we need for sure to make sure that a revolution can actually impact politics as we

know it. and without that revolution, we will have things as regular. >> congressman jeffries, let me ask you about a little kerfuffle that came up a couple of days ago. secretary clinton doing a parody with the mayor, bill de blasio, and then making a reference to cpt. which manyfrican-americans took offense to hillary clinton making that reference or bill de blasio making that reference. how did you feel about it? >> it was actually dill de blasio that made that reference. and as he indicated, it was satire. it was his play, his skit. >> was it a mistake? >> i think it was a mistake, not on secretary clinton's part. it was a mistake, i think, to have her involved, but a very minor one. because at the end of the day, it's the substantiative issues of importance to the african-american community and others that will determine who prevails in the new york primary. and from my standpoint, secretary clinton has been right on the issues as it relates to a whole host of concerns, particularly dealing with the gun violence epidemic that

continues to sweep many of the communities that i represent and many communities of color all across the country. and we know that senator bernie sanders has effectively functioned as a wholly owned subsidiary of the national rifle association for the entirety of his career, both as mayor, a member of the house, and the senate. voting five times against background checks. voting twice to shield gun manufacturers from liability, voting, essentially to -- >> congressman, i understand you're against those votes. can you really refer to him as a wholly owned subsidiary of the nra? do you really believe that the nra thinks that bernie sanders is just one of their guys? >> i think the reality is, if we're going to essentially try to associate secretary clinton with wall street interests, when she spent her career actually fighting against wall street interests, simply because a super pac that she's prohibited by law from associating, has received some contributions from individuals who may work in the financial services industry, then i think we need to fairly

scrutinize the fact that bernie sanders has consistently stood on the side of the nra on vote after vote, including the liability one, which the nra said is the most important vote to that organization in a generation. >> let me get -- before i let you guys go, let me get you to respond to that. are you comfortable with senator sanders' position on the gun liability bill? >> very much so. and i think what we really have to look at the broader picture here, right, as the congressman knows, we have to make sure that our communities, as we talk about gun violence, right? we're also talking about the clinton campaign confusing state-inflicted violence against black people, and violence in our communities, right? and even in new york, you know for a fact, the facts there where a majority of the guns that are involved in a crimes, a majority of them come from their own state, with right? so we also have to be real -- >> that's actually inaccurate. that's totally inaccurate. the overwhelming majority of

guns used to commit acts of violence in new york city comes from states like pennsylvania, some from vermont, and from the deep south, which have lax gun laws, which is why we need a national solution, and only hillary clinton can deliver that. >> state representative, i want you to have the last word. >> let's be clear that bernie sanders is not the one blocking that, congressman. >> all right. i'm going to go ahead and leif it there. state representative bowen, very quickly, you are supportive of senator sanders' vote to give immunity to gun manufacturers? you're comfortable with that position? >> i think the conversation has to be something broader, right? and the congressman is trying to narrow in. but i think if you look at the broader conversation, we can't confuse the two. and i think senator sanders has been completely not a dog and pony show for the gun lobby. he's been voted to have below number grades from the gun

industry, because he is not working for them. he's working for the american people. >> i'll leave it there. thank you both for coming on. appreciate it. you both represented your candidates very well. we'll be right back with the lid. ♪ ♪ take on the unexpected. the new 2016 nissan altima.

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the simple reality is, any time the people vote against donald, he screams the voters are stealing the election. well, that's actually how elections work, the voters choose who our next president will be. >> well, that was ted cruz just

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there are three candidate in the race. who would you consider the most conservative and who would you consider, well, let's start that. >> well i've been pretty clear i want a conservative and the actively campaigning, the only one fits that criteria is ted

cruz. i've said that publicly. >> time for the lid. steve kornacki, frequently sits in for me. how you doing? >> what is it about george pataki said about ted cruz, trying to pay a compliment, but can't endorse them. the verbal gymnastics, i watched pataki do it in front of me now. lindsey graham is the most honest about it. these other guys want to make it seem like no, i really do like this guy. >> i don't think the consolidation thing, it happened in wisconsin, i'm starting to see a scenario where cruz finishing third in new york. cruz finishing third in the northeast. what does that do? i think it gets to indiana on the 3rd of may. cruz needs the consolidation to beat trump. if kasich comes in viable because he beats out cruz in the northeast and gets 20% in indiana, that could cost cruz of beating trump.

>> i am a defender of rules. the fact that the political parties wrote the rules and they've been well-known, but i feel like trump has the best -- has the better argument here, even if he comes up short. what he is building right now. >> right. >> he is probably has the better pr handle. >> i think he knows it is resonating with his supporters. how many are new to the process. >> new to a primary, first time primary voters. >> these are the rules, it's new to them. so i think the basics are, it's an understandable argument trump is making. no primary, no caucuses, state convention in colorado. you had to give up days of your life to be there. that's not fair, i think to a first time voefter who is not wed to the party and traditions, that's going to resonate. >> and if you're reince priebus, the process you run, yet the more he pushes back, then he is going to get questioned. he is being a fair referee.

he has no choice to me but to defend the integrity of the process. but right now, it looks like he is anti-trump. >> trump is setting him up to play the role he wants him to play. he wants the establishment to be against him. he wants to be able to shout at his rallies. it's been the basic riddle that the republican establishment hasn't been able to solve. how do you oppose him without playing into his strategy. >> a topic he is so comfortable. he gets to talk about process. we're not talking about any specifics on a policy issue. >> do you know how much he loves it? here we are, six days away from new york, he'll win the state by 25, 30 points, and he wants to talk about the one he just lost. >> it's true. i do think it's interesting, he is back to start thinking about the week ahead for the first time. he hasn't done that in a while, going to pittsburgh today. >> yeah, look, end of the month, he could be back up 400 delegates. >> i'm with you. last week, i thought maybe the stop trump movement has some

legs. this week. >> feels different. >> feels different. steve kornacki, good to see you. more "mtp daily" tomorrow. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm john helemann. >> i'm mal. with all due respected to verizon, i'm pretty sure you can hear bernie now. on the show tonight, a trump family sitcom and coming attractions, but first some action. a little bit of drama. with less than a week to go before the new york primary, the front-runners in both parties, hillary clinton and donald trump, hold commanding leads, not just here in the empire state, but across the other northeastern states up next to vote after new york. but both front-runners are still struggling to unify a their fractured