[ crowd chanting "bernie" ] >> i grew up in brooklyn. [ cheers and applause ] the american dream was alive and well. my dad came to this country from poland at the age of 17, didn't have a nickel in his pocket. together we are going to create an economy that works for all of

us, for the elderly, the children, the sick, the poor, the middle-class and the working families of this country, not just the 1%. [ cheers and applause ] >> just incredible. bernie sanders last night in new york city and bernie has added one more iconic moment this campaign. i remember him standing on the back of the pick up truck in new hampshire with a microphone looking like bobby kennedy from '68 after his iowa win our tie or draw. and then the america ad and, mike, that last night. >> 27,000 people in washington square. forget the poll, why would he get out? drawing that kind of crowd. kasie hunt, you were there last night. >> i was. this is peak bernie sanders. this is everything we've been

talking about for the last three months. you can see when he took the stage he was a little bit emotional and stepped back to take it all in as he's had to fight the narrative that he should get out and hillary clinton is going to be the presumptive democratic nominee. >> few rallies like this, john heilemann, in modern american politics. it happens but it happens rarely. and in the heat of a primary in new york state, in new york city, the develop media market the country just an absolutely stunning -- stunning shots. >> a lot of what campaigning in new york is about when you have a primary here is about making moments and the moment that really -- because this is the media capital of the world, these images get captured, they echo louder and longer than in

other places so sanders going to places like topeka kansas and places that cakasie has been ani have been, getting 2,000, that's somewhat more impressive, but in the context of the primary, these moments can make a difference in terms of how the course of the narrative unfolds. >> and he needs this momentum. polls showing he's behind in new york state. it's a state he has to win. >> that's the question is where does the moment lead to? we're still the same position we were in before this rally happened. yeah it looks great for him. clearly he can get the huge crowds. of course now he doesn't have to pull out. he keeps making that argument, we keep winning, we're not going to pull out but the reality is the numbers are stacked against him. >> if you can just keep the emphasis on that side -- no, you're right, if you don't translate it to votes -- and barack obama translated it to

votes. he had fewer people in his crowd in 2007 -- >> september, 2007, huge crowd, same place. >> last night we heard him for the first time acknowledge that this was going to be a tough primary for him. he was up there on that stage and said we know this is going to be hard, partly because of the way the primary is structured, independents can't vote, people didn't switch their registration in time. but i think there is a sense from the campaign and, john, i think you've picked up on some of this, too, that if they can't come out of new york with a win, they have to start to reckon with how and if they're going to close this. >> remember, the key thing here is that if bernie sanders wins this primary by a point or two it will actually -- it will hurt him in the sense that in order to get to a majority of delegates, he needs to win these primaries by large margins. if he wins by two points, it will be a psychic victory, it will be a huge momentum boost but it won't get him net

delegates and he's 200 some odd delegates behind in the pledged delegate count. if he doesn't make up that ground, it doesn't help to win here by 1 or 2 or 3 percentage points, he's got to win by 10. >> it doesn't help in the math but talk about the intangibles, beating hillary clinton in her home state, that would run his winning streak up to what? eight, nine? >> and speaking of the intangib intangibles, there's one intangible that's mystifying to me viewing it from a distance. you two have viewed it up close. the new york feel. who has a better sense of it? does bernie born in brooklyn or hilly who has represented new york? the crowd last night was spectacular, i don't think it was the essence of new york. it was largely young, very enthusiastic and good for bernie but who has a better sense of the state? >> well, i think she has had --

if you look at the period of time of the week where they've been here now in the state campaigning, she has shown a better feel for the totality of new york, for the media dynamic. she's won more news cycles than he has. it makes sense. although he's from brooklyn, he's been a vermont politician his entire career. she, although she's not won here in a decade, she still has won statewide here twice, once resoundingly back in 2006. i think she gets a little bit -- she gets this state a little better in terms of how you win the day, the rough-and-tumble. she's a little stronger than he is. >> she can still bank on her 2006 experience of how much time she had to spend upstate. she spent a lot of time on that listening tour. >> and she campaigned against obama here and beat him soundly. she's done this state a lot. >> and just for the record, welcome to "morning joe." [ laughter ] oh, wait, that's why we're here. >> who's here today?

>> kmee mika is in the south of france checking her second house out in nice. she has two houses in nice. >> is she going to take barnicle's pickup truck to nice? >> she's got the city place and the country place in nice. >> it takes a lot of time up. >> it does. all of the people that work for those two houses, it's pretty hard. mike barnicle, who is he? guys is he legendary or what? >> legendary columnist in. >> kasie hunt with us, john hielman and katty kay with the news. katty? >> shall we get to the latest on what is happening? >> non-bernie news. bernie was definitely the lead. bernie was the lead but donald trump has added veteran operatives to catch up to ted cruz who has outorganized the businessman in the delegate race so far.

trump announced the hiring of rick wily, the former campaign manager for scott walker who served as the rnc's political director. wiley's position is seen as strengthening the hand of paul manafort as trump protests the rnc process. >> in colorado right now, they're picketing and going wild because the bosses and the establishment and the people that should haven't this power took all of the power away from the voters. so the voters never got to vote and voters didn't know that except when i got and complained because they did it after i joined the race and they figured i'd probably win colorado, which i would, i would win colorado. and we have delegates that go in, they don't take them and they take these others so they get the delegates without vogt. i'm just saying the system is a corrupt system. it's a rigged system. we've got to change it. >> and yesterday rnc chair reince priebus who trump accused

of knowing the process was being rigged against him said he didn't take these barbs personally. >> i have to respond, though, if the party of which i'm the chairman of is getting attacked, especially when it's not true. i know people get frustrated and they're disappointed when things don't go go exactly the right way. i think when people are trust rated and upset they say things they regret but certainly one thing that's strew that the rules are not being changed in order to injure or benefit anybody. >> late last night, trump wrote on twitter -- this as the head of colorado's republican party says he and his family are receiving death threats, joe. nice. >> yeah. a lot about colorado.

john heilemann, though, i don't think it's the numbers in colorado that matter to trump. this is a perfect vehicle for him to say the system is rigged and he says that to his voters in new york state, new jersey, pennsylvania, california, all the people who believe the system is rigged and are voting for trump because of that are reinforced. >> on the merits the argue system wrong in the sense that the rules were not changed to benefit anybody in particular. i think reince priebus is wright. to the extent the rule changes took place a year ago, trump's campaign has failed to reckon with those things. >> isn't it strange, though, that a state awards delegates and they don't let their people vote? >> well, yeah. >> yeah! >> there are a ton of strange anomalies. >> i'm just saying generally. if i'm a republican in colorado and thinking i'd like to have a say on who wins the nomination.

>> if i were a republican in colorado i would not like that system. but, again, the system was not changed in order to disadvantage trump. on the merits it's not a strong argument. politically it's a very strong argument. it taps into the sense that the populist energy for people who think there is an establishment out to screw them and screw him, that plays right to it. >> he's picked up another republican insider. he's got people if there from a lot of different -- he's got people from scott walker's campaign, he's got people from ben carson's campaign, he's got manafort running it all along with corey lewandowski, he's going a bit more mainstream, isn't he? >> i think he's recognized that although he's railing against the system in public he understands that in order to win the nomination he has to play that game and he needs people who know how to play that game.

whether it's the convention itself or the runup to the convention, he needs to compete with the people playing the game very well in terms of the delegate selection process around the country. >> and discipline in the way he has over the past week or two. you haven't seen the twitter screeds, he sat down with megyn kelly. >> that moment, having his family there and even his family saying we've told him he has to discipline himself. >> and you say the cnn town hall meeting with the family -- i didn't see it but you said compelling tv. >> it was donald trump playing the part of robert young in the old "father knows best" tv series. he wasn't loud, he wasn't boisterous, he was compellingly cooperative. he gave most of the time to his family. >> he was often quiet. there are long stretches that he said nothing. >> no one said anything ground

breaking, it was fairly straightforwa straightforward, pro trump. >> but it's a compelling testament to have -- his children are such articulate spokespeople on his behalf. >> i don't know if any of you saw the cruz town hall last night because i would sail the same about the hour they spent with cruz and the two young daughters last night, that was also very -- they looked like -- particularly when they brought the daughters up they looked like a normal real family. >> i've known donald for 10 years or so, people will say "what's he like?" i say he's not like that guy you see on tv. and i always tell the story, one of the things i think is the most compelling is the way he acts when the cameras aren't on him and i remember at one point commenting about his children, what great children he had. i said a lot of people that have money, their kids are just jerks. i said i don't know donald, a lot of people say a lot of stuff about you but the one thing i will say is that i judge a person many times by their

children and what donald said with nobody looking is, he said don't give me any credit for that, ivana is extraordinary. it's their mother. what an incredible woman, she made them who they are and then she handed them off to me fully formed and great and said it's your turn and he just said i'm cky, he said they are incredible kids. that five years ago when nobody was looking is probably what some of everybody saw the other night, the side of donald trump that unfortunately he does not show enough. >> it hasn't come out very much in this campaign. they did a "people" magazine spread he and melania at home. that was a print interview but he talked what about family means to him and even if you listen around the edges he'll say i want to go home and spend some time at home with my family. it's very clear that's important to him. but i think that gets missed quite a bit and the cnn town hall where you got a chance to see it and where he was -- it

was remark to believe see him physically sit back in his chair and just watch his family speak on his behalf. i hadn't -- >> the one thing he's been a disciplinarian about is drinks and drugs and he apparently says to them every morning when they were growing up, no alcohol, no drugs, you just don't do it. i did want to ask the kids, so have you? did you? >> he's saying i've never had a glass of alcohol in my life and ivanka saying i used to roll my eyes at dad but that was the message but that comes from his brother who struggled with alcoholism mightily. >> so ted cruz, you were talking about ted cruz. i guess he held a rally in erie, pennsylvania, then his family came back to new york where he discussed a possible contested convention in cleveland and talked about potential vp picks. >> if trump emerges with more votes in the popular vote but at the convention in a second round you get the delegates, you get the nomination, will the will of the people be subverted?

that's what trump is saying. >> it's a ludicrous argument. there's one way and only one way you earn the republican nomination, that is you earn the votes with a majority of the delegates elected by the people. going back to 1860 that has been consistently for more than a century how the republican party has picked our nominee. >> could you see a cruz/rubio ticket? >> look, anyone would naturally look at marco as one of the people who would be a terrific foreign consider for vp and we're in the process now of considering a number of different options. >> you're not ruling it out? >> he would be someone that you would be a fool not to look at seriously. is he's very, very talented. >> he's in the process now of considering a number of -- >> options. >> i want to be on the record on this. i'm not ruling out the prospect of putting mike on the ticket. >> why is it so convoluted this delegates selection process? is it more convoluted than the

democratic process? >> well, the democratic process has super delegates and which a lot of people think is worse. i can't give you a straightforward answer as to why. both parties have their quirks. the republican party has quirks that are more on a state-by-state level and the democratic party has a large quirk with the super delegates. for many people it's nuts. caucuses are quirky, right? there are a lot of people who think caucuses are not as democratic as they should be. both parties have oddities. >> i read a couple articles yesterday that said cruz could stop trump on the second ballot. question is, can cruz get to 1237? >> before the first ballot? >> are there 1237 delegates that would support him? >> someone's done an analysis in the last 24 hours that suggest there's at least 150 trump delegates currently who have made it clear they will turn

against trump at the first ballot and many of those people presumably will be open to cruz. part of what's going on around the country is that the cruz people are trying to get dwheegs are pledged to trump in the first ballot to switch to cruz in the second. >> i know cruz may be able to stop him. i just find it hard to believe there will be 1237 delegates and they say yeah, this is the guy who can beat hillary clinton. >> are the rules that whatever ballot counting we are, whoever is the nominee, has to get 1237. so whatever it's -- >> yes. >> so he would have to. he's not the nominee unless he gets 1237. >> and that's what i'm saying, i don't think he can get there. i think trump will get 1237 before -- on the first ballot but if he doesn't i find it hard to believe people will go oh, great, now we have a chance to give it to ted cruz. >> that's what i was going say. that's been the problem of the republican party all the away long with donald trump. they want to stop him but they can't figure out how the get on

the same side to the same person to the point where they can get to this. that's where i think ted cruz's own failings, likability issues, problems with mitch mcconnell and others in the republican party come into play. is the stop trump movement a pro-cruz movement? we've been moving in that direction but we're not there yet. >> cruz's supporters really like cruz in a way that rubio supporters never seemed that enthusiastic about rubio. people who voted for cruz campaigned for him, are very committed. there's a level of enthusiasm about his campaign you haven't seen necessarily from the other candidates. >> the first big question is how many delegates cruz has going into the convention. most people assume if trump doesn't get to 1237, the second-most delegates will be held by cruz. so the question is how many does cruz need to convert and what happens in the second ballot to the people pledged on the first ballot to rubio, to kasich, to jeb bush, to chris christie, to any of those guys who accumulated a small number of delegates and then they're all -- there are some delegates who can switch on the second

ballot and some who can't until the third. so there are different rules in terms of when you're not bound anymore for different sets of delegates. >> so the further on he goes the more likely he is to pick people up. >> here's the big question, how long are we going to be in cleveland in july. [ laughter ] >> don't say july, mike, it could be august. who knows? >> i mean if trump doesn't get in on the first ballot i just -- let me put it this way, if it's not trump i think it will be a long time. now, i will say when he was having his really rough stretch a couple of weeks ago i was of the opinion that if he was one short they weren't going to give it to him. now he's brought in the professionals. he's staying out of the headlines, not doing every single show. >> good story out of new york. >> great story out of new york, great story out of connecticut, great story out of pennsylvania most likely. he's doing all these massive states in the northeast and everybody's saying "but look at

indiana, he may lose indiana by one and a half points and this's going to change the --" no, i don't think so. i think he's going to have great momentum and it will be harder and harder for the republican party to stop him if he's win 100 points. i think right now. i didn't feel that way a couple weeks ago. >> the party seems to go up and down on how determined they are to stop him and technically if we go into cleveland with donald trump not being able to restrain himself as you just said he had to do a couple of minutes ago and he said things that -- >> but he's doing it right now. he is restraining himself. >> he doesn't always have a great track record of consistency on that level. >> but kasie there has been a change over the past week or so, especially since manafort's been in there. i think it was first sunday in five month he is didn't do sunday shows. >> he's got manafort out front in said the of himself and i

think you have -- even to go back to that town hall i don't feel like i've ever seen donald trump step back or out of any situation. he's always leaning in. any time there's a problem criticism, any controversy, he's always pushing forward, pushing forward. and if anything we've seen him leaning back, probably for his -- to the good of his ultimate campaign strategy here. >> john heilemann, how do you feel on this point? if donald trump is one delegate short, does the republican party keep it from him? >> i think the people around donald trump really, really, really want to get to 1237 before the first ballot because they believe if he doesn't get to 1237 on the first ballot that he will almost certainly not get the nomination. >> we shall see. >> there's an incredible laser-like focus now within that group to try to make sure they win on the first ballot. >> so they believe 13wg 00 short would mean contested? >> they certainly believe if he's 100 short he won't get the

nomination. but i think if he's five or six short the odds go down dramatically. >> well, that's the way to think. certainly the way to plan it. very good. kasie hunt, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> greatly appreciate it. coming up on "morning joe," we have senator claire mccaskell and also senator jane sanders to talk about her husband's campaign and we'll ask her about that incredible night last night. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> joe, you guys deserve a beautiful weekend, especially after the last one that was cold. there's great stuff moving across the country. before i get to that, let me show you these epic hail pictures from texas. the back of the state trooper car. that's like baseballs falling from the sky. this was just north of the san antonio area. they weren't alone. many vehicles were damaged throughout the region. worst weather again this morning down by the new orleans along i-10. this area got hit yesterday with heavy rain, we're doing it all over again. maybe about one to two inches of rain throughout this area in new orleans and then this afternoon

panama city to jacksonville. as far as the forecast goes, beautiful stuff. minneapolis today at 74 is incredible and this is the type of warming that move through to the east. chicago near 70 on friday and by the time we get to the weekend we'll be about 15 to 20, even northern new england gets into the mix and finally new england by the time we get to sunday so spring fever has finally arrived for many areas in the northern half of the country. washington, d.c. included. a chilly morning. you're in for a beautiful stretch of weather through weekend. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you both have a perfect driving record. perfect. no tickets. no accidents. that is until one of you clips a food truck, ruining your perfect record. yeah. now you would think your insurance company would cut you some slack, right? no. your insuranceates go through the roof... your perfect record doesn't get you anything. anything. perfect.

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everyone knows my relationship to pennsylvania and it's a special relationship. i went to school in this state, we know that, right? this is the town of the pittsburgh steelers which we love, we do love the pittsburgh steelers. it's steel city and when i'm president, guess what? steel is coming back to pittsburgh and a lot of other things are coming back.

how's joe paterno? are we going to bring that back? how about that whole -- how about that whole deal? and we do love penn state. do we love penn state, in all fairness? >> all right, joining the table right now we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. i'm curious, did he bring up joe paterno? >> ted cruz did in pennsylvania yesterday. >> trump just did. >> i think he was mimicking what -- >> trump did initially saying are you bringing him back and there was a little -- and then the campaign said he was referring to the statue but the audience thought maybe he didn't realize that paterno died. it was a little bit -- >> i stayed away from that. >> kind of an obvious one. >> yeah, come on, that's not really -- anyway, so we have steve rattner here. steve, we're going to talk about this in a second but you had yesterday the most-read article

in the "new york times" and you were talking about republicans being to blame for the rise of trump. they can curse him all they want but you say in large part it's their own economic poll shows that have created donald trump's success. >> i made a fairly simple argument which is that i think if the republicans in congress particularly had not blocked every piece of legislation that obama put forward to try to improve the state of average americans, things like wage insurance expansion of the earned income tax credit, the same trump base that is now his base would be sbomewhat better economically, perhaps economically, perhaps not in the trump camp. >> a lot of the fixes you listed seem like more band aids, short-term fixes to take care of the damage that's already been done. i think obviously infrastructure

when you're talking about infrastructure bank, i think that's an exception. i think infrastructure creates jobs, creates more jobs, creates more jobs but if you could make a suggestion to the rain paepub party moving forward, knowing they're market driven small government type what is would be the one thing that you would recommend the republican party adopt to reach out to working class americans that now feel desert bid the paul ryan wing of the party. >> there's a long-term category and short-term category. all the people say about education and training and things like that are important but that's a generational change. you won't take some 55-year-old guy and make him into a software programmer. so i think you have to do the long term stuff for a generation and you have to think about the shorter term things -- >> like payroll tax cuts? >> payroll tax cuts or wage insurance, where if you lose your job and take a lower-paying one the government gives you up to $10,000, or half of your

earnings, which ever is less, for two years to help cushion the blow. if some of these people had seen something coming from the government toward them, some sign, some symbol that the government was trying to help them maybe they'd be less angry, maybe they'd be more rational, maybe they'd be in kasich's camp. >> that's the "new york times" piece. banks and wall street are going to be a key part of the topics covered at tonight's democratic debate. steve rattner has charts on whether or not the banks are getting bigger and the influence that wall street pay will have on this election. steve, what have you got there? >> the last time i discussed this joe and i almost came to blows. >> no we didn't! you always say that! >> we had a spirited discussion. so i wanted to give him equal time. >> i just responded to what you were saying. >> in any event, banks will be on the agenda and you'll hear confusing stuff about whether banks are getting bigger, not getting bigger. so i want to try to lay out why

they are or aren't getting bigger and talk about wall street pay. so if you look at this and i say joe and bernie, big banks are getting bigger, a slot of it has to do with where you measure from. if you start from the beginning of the financial crisis, 2004, you can see here that the banks in fact a number of them are getting bigger by reasonable sizes. except for citibank. but that is largely because these banks made large acquisitions. they bought washington mutual, they bought countrywide, they bought merrill lynch so their assets grew. if you look at the banks from after these acquisitions happened and simply what's happened in the more recent time you see a much more modest picture. in fact, you see declines for most of the banks. a small increase for j.p. morgan, bank of america smaller, citi smaller, wells fargo larger but that's a retail bank based on the west coast. so hillary's point would be the banks aren't much bigger, the

problem is a different kind of problem, it needs a different kind of solution. let's look at the last thing which there's not a lot of disagreement which is wall street pay. if you go back to 1982, the average wall street worker in new york got roughly twice, about $100,000, what the average worker in the private economy got in new york. if you look at it today even after the financial crisis, $400,000 versus $72,000, the average wall street worker is getting six times. so from two times to six times over this 30-year period. even at the time of occupy wall street in 2011 the average private sector worker was getting -- the average wall street worker was getting five times what a private sector worker is getting so there is a basis behind this anger toward wall street, the sense that wall street is winning and everybody else is losing. >> mike? >> let's go back to the big banks and bernie's popular theme he's been carrying on for years.

what has happened to the smaller banks that bernie sanders favors? the community banks? the things he says would be a vital part of rebuilding localized america? >> up dramatically. if you look at the banks, over $500 billion of assets, they declined by about 2%. they 24r0st% of their assets. if you look at everybody else below that you'll see increases of 25%, 30% 35%. all the growth in the banking system has gone to these smaller and middle sized banks, the ones he wants to help. >> very good. coming up next, mika's private concorde has flown across this morning's must-read opinion pages. that stationery -- >> they're all in french, right? >> it's in french but -- >> she can text mika on the plane. "morning joe" back in a moment. ok team,

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show show me more like this. s. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what blows you away. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. time now for must-read op-eds. >> amazingly, down in the south of france, they have the "washington post." it's the only thing anyone is reading right near morning. >> seriously? >> taking the place by storm. >> both the town and country. >> and here is what joe writes.

>> the french love joe who writes in the "washington post" --

>> katty, you can speak to this as well as anybody. just how people look at this country. i mean, the 43rd president of the united states said he was going to end tyranny across the globe and instead he got us engaged in so many military operations that it will be complicating our foreign policy for decades to come. this president was so afraid to be the last president that his geostrategic guiding principle is "don't do stupid stuff." now we've got people in are saying, you know, bomb our enemies until the sand glows, enact muslim bans and you can just go down the list. we are not seeing a serious, thoughtful player on the planet anymore, are we? >> and you make those points in op-ed and you're quite right, joe. they reflect a confusion in america itself about what its role in the world should be. it's almost like a reassessment

of exceptionalism going don. does it want to be the world leader or does it want to retrench? we're hearing a lot of that on the campaign trail after 13 years in the middle east, americans understandably feel their activities abroad haven't gone so well. but what's happened abroad is that you went from bush where the world looked at america and there was a huge risen anti-americanism, and anti-bushism, the world was not happy with what they saw in the united states and the president. they fell in love with barack obama and you have still that affection for obama in public opinion around the world. but amongst leaders around the world you have a lot of disquiet about whether this president has led enough at a time when the world needs leadership. i've never known a time of as many crises abroad and the world leaders are asking where is the united states? >> where is the indispensable power. >> and what i was saying the other night, nobody said anything, but you had bob gates sitting next to dr. brzezinski

sitting next to john warner sitting next to brent scowcroft and without anybody saying anything from -- in the talks, everybody was just talking around the table, chattering around the table. what's happened to this country? who are going to replace these men? who are the foreign policy giants of our age? there aren't any. >> i would argue john kerry is a pretty experienced secretary of state but what i would say is you layer on top of that the fact that we're in an election year so we're kind of paralyzed in from that standpoint. when i go overseas all people want to understand is how does it work in america, how does donald trump happen, how do these people happen? and there's a complete preoccupation with our election and what will come out of it. >> there's also -- secretary kerry has given voice around the world to what america presents but bono was on the other morning and what he was talking about is an element -- plays a part in this.

when america disappears from part of the world stage, it creates a vacuum and nothing good comes into that vacuum. but america is more than just fighting in iraq or fighting isis. america is a force for good throughout the world. bono pointed to that in his appearance the other day. especially the american military. the american military is one of the most powerful voices for an effective america throughout the world and not just fighting. >> well, you know, i've been hearing and i'm sure everybody around this table has been hearing from foreign leaders and diplomats since 2009/2010 that barack obama thinks he can go somewhere, deliver a speech, come back home and he's done his job. that he thinks that that's actually the ends instead of the means to the end and you are right, he's popular among a lot of people across the globe but among leaders -- and this hasn't just happened in the past year or two -- there's been frustration. >> syria and the red line was the big turning point for

european allies. coming up next, hillary clinton may be running for president but she had a different title yesterday. >> reverend hillary clinton! >> all right, before the democrats debate in brooklyn, they're stopping by the national action network. reverend al sharpton is here. he is, of course, going to indoctrinate me this morning as a reverend as well. i'm from the south, i'm baptist -- >> hey. >> not a great one but close enough. he's marking his organization's 25th anniversary. we'll be right back with "morning joe." (patrick 1) what's it like to be the boss of you?

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and intellectual propertylines about bubeing stolen.g hacked that is cyber-crime. and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount. we're building what we learn back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer. >> if we're going ask african-americans to vote for us, we can not take you or your vote for granted. [ applause ] we can't just show up at election time and say the right things and think that's enough. we can't start building relationships a few weeks before a vote.

we have to demonstrate a sustained commitment to building opportunity, creating prosperity, and righting wrongs, not just every two or four ye s years, not just what the cameras are on and people a watching but every single day. >> that was hillary clinton making her case to african-american voters yesterday at the national action network's 25th annual convention. joining us now, the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of that network, reverend al sharpton. you were there with her and you inaugurated -- gave her a different title, al. >> well, what happened was at the end of her speech she quoted the bible and she did it very well so i was teasing saying reverend hillary clinton, i didn't introduce her that way. that was on her way out. bernie sanders is speaking today. we'll see how well he does with scripture at the end of his speech. >> what verse did she quote? >> she quoted "be not weary in

well doing." and it was the end of a long policy speech because we're very clear we want to hear concrete how are you going to get there but she knows a lot of national action network are ministers and come out of the martin luther king tradition of ministries and she quoted the bible. >> so there's a rising fear among black americans that democrats are just taking them for granted. that they're going to line up and vote for the democratic candidate no matter what. do you feel that hillary clinton will be different? >> i think she needs to make that case. she has people all over the country, these are people that move voters. she has to make that case because not only does she have to get a huge portion of the black vote, it's the turnout.

the problem is not 90% of the black vote, it's 90% of what black vote. and i think that that is what's going to be critical in november if she's the nominee or sanders. the problem on the sanders side that he has to make a case this moshing is the best he's done with the black vote in the primaries is 30%. so he's resonating. huge crowd in greenwich village but not so in harlem on sunday. they have to make a case on what is the reason i need to be standing in line if it comes to that. >> so she's been campaigning now for two years and you don't feel she's yet made that case? >> no, i think she's made the case clearly in terms of the primaries the question is does she have turnout? i don't feel that yet. i think she's getting there. bernie sanders has to make that case as well.

there must be excitement. this is a peculiar place we've never been in american history for black america and white america. we've never been where we're going to see which white will replace a black president so this is a sensitive election that i think most of the media is missing. we're say, wait a minute, barack obama and that family is leaving who's moving in and why should i enthusiastically come out? >> the '94 crime bill plays a big role in this campaign. it didn't begin the age of mass incarceration, it began well before 1994, but what do you want to see a president, the next president of the united states, do to implement things that were not the 1994 crime bill. >> how we're going to repair the damage that was done, whether it was intended or not, in terms of those families that were broken up, commuting sentences and a policy going forward.

>> do you blame bill clinton for that? there's a big -- >> we i was against it then. the other night on rauch l's show -- steve's show, we talked about the bill but i thought it would lead to what it did. >> should bill clinton apologize? >> it's not about apology, it's about he's already said it went too far. now the question is what would clinton or sanders do to rectify? how do you correct it? eric holder and loretta lynch have said to their u.s. attorneys that you cannot ask for these stiff sentences for non-violent crime. that we need to commute sentence, which barack obama as president has done. rectify. he said at a convention last year, bill clinton, it did go today. if he got up today at national action network and said i'm sorry, that doesn't rectify anything. we need to really turn around the impact and what it's done to two generations of african-americans. >> reverend al, congratulations

on 25 years. >> thank you. >> 25 more to come. >> thank you very much. and i want you to know, joe scarborough spoke at national action network in those 25 years, before hillary showed up. >> and when i finished, all the people said -- >> amen. >> amen, brother. >> i don't know what was wrong with them that year. [ laughter ] >> they didn't invite a lot of us back. >> they came to scarborough country. coming up, donald trump says he's not the first republican to be trailing the democrat in head-to-head polls. >> jimmy carter wanted to run against ronald reagan. he said, oh, please, let reagan win and he was so far behind reagan and by the time the election took place it was a big victory, an easy victory for reagan. that's what happens. that's what happens. because you aim your fire at that person. >> we're going to talk to the former special assistance to president reagan james rosebush about the changing face of the republican party. "morning joe" coming right back.

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coming up on "morning joe," one of hillary clinton's leading supporters, senator claire mccaskell will be here. plus bernie sanders's closest advisor, his wife jane, joins us on the set. up next, the rnc's latest target for donald trump. we'll talk to the committee's former chairman michael steele about that straight ahead. "morning joe" coming right back. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag.

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it's official, number 73, the greatest season in nba history now belongs to the 2016 golden state warriors. >> a basket equals a 50-point gain. down four. ryan on his way! it's a one-point game! you are watching one of the greatest performances in the history of his game. >> wow, welcome back to "morning joe." mike, i'll admit, i haven't watched nba basketball since the floor of the garden but pretty big night from what i hear.

>> huge night for the nba. the golden state warriors an incredible club with an incredible shooter and kobe bryant closing out his career put 60 up last night. they gave him the ball at every opportunity. i think kobe scored 60 because he was furious that espn didn't feature his game on espn. he was on espn 2 so he said i'll show them. >> shot 50 times. so end of a remarkable era for kobe bryant. >> it was cute afterwards he said usually in the games they're all saying "pass the ball, pass the ball." last night they were saying "don't pass it, keep it." >> good morning, it's wednesday april 14, mika has the day off. with me on set we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay, former treasury official steve rattner, msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele and managing editor of bloomberg politics john heilemann. katty, big night in new york city last night. >> yeah. there was a huge crowd.

if you tried to move downtown, you were not getting anywhere. it was gridlock down there. bernie sanders drew a massive crowd last night. in downtown manhattan. the campaign says over 27,000 people gathered in washington square park to watch the senator speak, that's 3,000 more than barack obama drew back in 2007. meanwhile, with recent polls show him trailing hillary clinton by double digits in the state, senator sanders used familiar lines of attack against his opponent, hitting clinton on everything from her super pac money to trade to her iraq war vote to her paid speeches on wall street. >> i think if somebody gets paid $225,000 for a speech, it must be an unbelievably extraordinary speech! it must be a speech written in shakespearean prose. and i kind of think if that

$225,000 speech was so extraordinary, she should release the transcripts and share it with all of us. [ cheers and applause ] jane and i left new york city when we were kids. it is great to be back! thank you! [ cheers and applause ] i don't think that there is any doubt but that our campaign today has the momentum. [ cheers and applause ] we have won seven out of the last eight caucuses and primaries. [ cheers and applause ] and when i look at an unbelievable crowd like this, i believe we're going to win here in new york next tuesday.

>> 27,000 people. >> yeah, look, 27,000 people. >> makes you proud to be a democrat. >> makes you proud to be a democrat. i think hillary clinton should release her transcripts and what else do you want to talk about? >> well, i think -- >> don't agree with me, fine. >> as we head into the new york primary which bernie sanders probably won't win and he will then have to start asking questions about how and when he wraps up this campaign, it's

worth taking a moment to look at those images from last night and the fact that he has got 27,000 people and none of us sitting around this table a year ago would have predicted anything like that. it took us all by surprise. >> it's sustained, too. there have been people like our friend howard dean that had a remarkable 2003, remarkable leadup, great event in bryant park in the summer but it didn't sustain. the fact that bern think is sustaining and is getting stronger, he's won seven out of the last eight, the money he's raised is incredible. the crowds are getting bigger. when we talk about it's over, hillary will win it, it sure doesn't look that way. i understand. >> the money he's raised. all he has to do is say berniesanders.com and he gets a couple million dollars. but john heilemann, you pointed out last hour there were remote.

when you listen to senator sanders as he spoke last night, he's got to be think iing about just keep going. >> psychology, mike, you say bernie sanders or any candidate who's deep into a nomination fight, you would say this about hillary clinton in 2008, you say the math is against you, there's no way for you to getthere, you have to be realistic then you're the candidate, you walk on stage in front of 27,000 people in manhattan or in front of 12,000 people in kansas city or 20,000 people in portland, oregon and it happens with bernie sanders day after day. this is not like -- this is an unusually large crowd, it's an unusually heavily covered event. but bernie sanders day after day turns out thousands of people

and it's hard for a human being who sees that kind of reinforcement of his message to say, acknowledge, the reality, the math, the logic of dropping out. that he looks at that and says my message is resonating and i'll stick through to the end. i have the money, i have this momentum, i keep winning contests, don't tell me to stop and don't talk to me about math. >> what's interesting is the fact that all those things are happening. he's having these huge rallies. he's raising this immense amount of money but at the moment it appears he's going to lose new yor york. >> until -- when you like the polls you say look at these polls. >> i remember the michigan polls that showed hillary was going to win. >> and one thing that they are voting by changing -- okay,

there was other news, too. new reports say donald trump's campaign manager won't be prosecuted for an incident with a reporter last month. politico was the first to report citing sources a florida prosecutor won't pursue a case against corey lewandowski who was charged with simple battery. former breitbart news reporter michelle fields filed a police report for aggressively moving her out of trump's way. the trump campaign has not commented and last night fields tweeted -- one source close to fields says reports of her considering a defamation suit against lewandowski are not farfetched and it's something she is considering. >> let's just -- you know what?

let's just have corey apologize and be done with it. >> move on. >> i mean come on, a couple weeks ago michael there were so many people on the right especially that -- and i said this a couple weeks ago, they were studying the footage like it was the zapruder film. it was absolute insanity and absolute overreach. there's always an overreach. corey just needs to apologize and just needs to be put behind us. >> i think with manafort at the h helm, something like that is more likely to happen. you can see the tenor and tone of the trump campaign is turning. >> we were talking about this before. have you seen what -- certainly i seem to have noticed over the

past week a new discipline, a new focus. >> we talked about it on this set after the blowup with the wife and scandal with corey and all of that and the big loss in wisconsin that there needed to be a reset and i think the campaign has failured out we have to do a reset and they're doing it. you're seeing in the the discipline of donald trump and how he's doing interview, fewer interviews. the tone of the campaign has changing, the approach to the public is changing. think it won't surprise any of us in a couple days to see corey apologize, privately, quietly, but still apologize. let's bring in nbc news correspondent haley jackson in buffalo following the cruz campaign. what did the cruz family, hallie, make on cnn. it made them look like a real family. >> that was such a special moment and it stole the show when you saw caroline and catherine come out with the rest

of the family. it got a ton of buzz on line. we see the kids, we see the girls a lot on the campaign trail, they're often with their parnes doing these apparents so for cruz it's a matter of getting out there, showing his softer side. it's not so much a reset for his campaign, we've seen the family out there, but when you talk about donald trump's campaign you look at what's happened with lewandowski. i had one republican operative say to me this is a campaign like no other given that you're seeing the frub ing thing the campaign manager under investigation. then you see the shakeups, the hiring of paul manafort and scott wiley. walker backing cruz and saying to us a couple weeks ago he's not interested in being the white night, swooping in and helping out the party. the issue for trump, of course, his critics would say, is he is late to the game with manafort coming on board. i can tell you this, we have learned that the cruz camp in early june started talking about

delegate strategy not in the context of trump but in the idea of taking on possibly jeb bush, scott walker or marco rubio at that time a potential contested convention. it was revisited again at a progress meeting in december so this is something that's been on the minds of the cruz camp for months, since a few months after cruz started his campaign, trump now beginning to work on this is a sign that he has ground to make up. you talk about his shift in strategy, he's been talking about policy. we haven't seen him come out and deliver a policy speech since this started happening. guys? >> let's see if manafort makes that happen. hallie jackson, thanks very much. with just days to go before the new york primary, ted cruz launched a radio ad targeting bill de blasio and here's part of it.

nypd commissioner bill bratton responded to the ad tweeting -- >> the cruz campaign has edited the radio ad after questions over accuracy. the ad originally claimed murder is up nearly 10%, that's been changed to say murders are now up. >> michael steele, what do you think? >> i think it's -- really? i mean, if you elect me president the mayor is done? [ laughter ] >> all politics is local, man. when i ran for congress i ran against a property tax increase in one of the counties. you beat them where they are.

and if you are a republican in new york city you don't like bill de blasio. >> you don't like bill de blasio, but i don't know if that's going to translate into a -- just warm fuzzy turnout for ted cruz in the new york primary. i don't get where -- again, if you're going to come into this space, you have to know how to play here. new york is not like any other city where you can throw up ads like that and think they'll resonate with people and they'll go "oh, wow, that moves me to act." and i think that the cruz team has been off message from the very beginning of their soiree into new york city. >> you have to ask if he finishes in third place whether the smarter move might just have been to skip new york state. >> apologize. >> or don't even apologize. >> i think if ted cruz had landed the plane and come in here and said "let me begin the conversation by saying i got you wrong, i was wrong about the folks here when i questioned your values and i'm here first off to say before we do any campaigning, before we get into any of, that i'm sorry."

>> when was the last time you heard a candidate say something like that, michael? >> i know. >> it's worth a try! >> he's booted off the new york values statement he made months ago. >> at the end of the day, ted cruz, everything he is, everything he stands for is not really a new york kind of guy. >> his wife works for goldman sachs. it's not like this is a foreign country to him. >> goldman sachs in texas. >> but most people aren't like the cities they go to. if you're not from new york, you come from someplace else. the idea is to appreciate the people you're meeting. greet them, understand them where they are and a lot of what we've seen in this republican primary is that we take a blanket and apply it across the country and we're assuming everybody is like we are in south carolina or north carolina or alabama and we're not. america is very different. republicans in the northeast versus the west versus the south versus the midwest and the party

still doesn't understand that. >> that's the real problem. there was a shift in my region, the deep south. republicans won new york in '72, won it in '80, won it in '84. won new england. i mean -- >> they won maryland in '84. >> people forget. republicans won connecticut and maine and probably new hampshire. but like in '72 and '76 and '80 and '84 and '88 and then there was this sort of shift southward. you said south carolina, lee atwater, the shift in the republican party in '88 moved that way. so the face of the republican party for people in new york and in the northeast and across new england have been lee atwater, karl rove, newt gingrich, tom delay. >> and now ted cruz. >> that's why i'm saying, somebody like ted cruz comes up here, that's why people say "you know what?

donald trump would be the worst thing that ever happened to kelly ayotte." no, no, no. ted cruz would be the worst thing that ever happened to kelly ayotte in a general election because there's a reason why in 2008 there was not a single republican representing anybody in all of new england in congress and that's -- >> but ted cruz means kelly ayotte is a former united states senator? >> exactly. ted cruz means bad news there, bad news in ohio for portman, bad news in wisconsin. ted cruz at the top of the ticket means ron johnson is looking far new job. >> and chuck schumer is majority leader. >> i can't say this enough. it's just a reality. you probably agree, or maybe you don't. ted cruz is the worst-case scenario for senate candidates, even worse than donald trump. >> and i think that that's the great irony with everyone flocking behind him now because

it's a cynical support. they know they need to stop trump. there's no way they ride that horse to the white house in november because there's no ground for it there and the party has a real problem if ted cruz is the nominee in that sens sense. >> if you're going to stop donald trump and you succeed, you better ask yourself first, who's going to help kelly ayotte, who's going to hebrl he johnson. who's going to help save the united states senate? >> it's a big challenge and the party isn't meeting it very well. still ahead on "morning joe," from the sanders presidential campaign, brooklyn's own jane sanders. we'll talk about that huge rally in new york city and what her husband will tell his supporters to do if he doesn't become the party's nominee. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one.

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bernie brooklyn-born sanders and guess what, ted cruz? i have new york values. [ cheers and applause ] mr. trump, you wouldn't know new york values if they were written in 50-foot gold letters on the side of the empire state building. [ cheers and applause ] i was born and raised in brooklyn. bk, stand up, fight back, don't let anyone tear us down. we believe in the value of hard work. we believe in the value of equality. we believe in the value of a society where the american dreamworks for all, not just the 1%. those are new york values. and the truth is, new york values are american values. there is no difference. [ cheers and applause ] >> you know, it's amazing that he can -- he can sort of play with that brooklyn accent that way. you almost believe he came from here. >> he does a good one. >> seriously.

>> because he's vermont, he's not from brooklyn, isn't he? >> he was born on a farm about 30 miles north of burlington, i think. >> right up at the border. >> right there, almost french canadian. with us now, the wife of democratic presidential candidate senator bernie sanders, jane sanders. she's a political advisor to the campaign and former president of burlington college in vermont so you must have met him when you went and visited his family farm. >> i did, of course. we milk it had cows. >> can we change the google thing about how you both grew up in brooklyn down the street from one another. >> well, not from -- about 15 blocks and if you live in brooklyn every block is a neighborhood. >> it actually is. that's how you can tell you are a new yorker. so last night, holy cow. >> unbelievable. 27,000. >> let me just ask you -- >> that picture. >> -- as an observer, try to be a spectator. what was that like? >> it was fantastic. i mean, the feeling in the

crowd, it was -- i guess it was historic, that was the largest crowd ever in washington square park so it was wonderful. >> when you see a crowd like that, when you're standing up there, we were talking about this earlier, it's got to give you a feeling of, hey, we're in this thing until the end, we're not going anywhere. >> yes, it does. it does. and i -- you know, having it be here in new york, it's a different energy and outside is always really nice. so we are in it until the end and i think you can see why. a lot of people are counting on him. >> why are they counting on him? why are they there? why the historic turnout last night? >> well, we always knew his ideas would resonate with the american people. we had no idea with the fervor with which it would resonate. and i think it's because they see that he's sincere, that he is dealing with the issues and talking about the issues that they care about. that they've been worried about that. have been on their minds. and coming up with solutions that they think can happen.

also, i think they really are looking forward to participating more in our democracy. i mean, people have been shut out for a long time. most of the decisions rest in the hands in fewer and fewer hands, the political and economic decisions, you know, joe, you've been down in washington. it's much worse than it was before in terms of lobbyists and corporate control and i think people are ready to say enough is enough, we need to get -- we need to take our country back, we need to address the issues that we really care about. >> i also know politically, you don't need to take a lot of polls and have a lot of focus groups to figure out why people are there and what they need. a lot of times it's when they grab your arm and say "thank you for" or "can you do this?" what do you hear more than anything this year when somebody has a second with you and grabs your arm and leans in and speaks to you? >> "thank you. thank you for speaking for us.

thank you for taking the time, for representing us. you're speaking to my heart." i mean, it's -- working the rope line is just such an emotional thing. you're meeting people that are so hopeful. you walk away humbled and feeling that we can't let them down. that's almost always as we leave we're thinking we have to -- we can't let them down. we have to address the things that they care about. we have to represent them. >> so given where you are at the moment, which is a bit behind secretary clinton in pledged delegates and we've all seen the polls in these next few states, how do you not let them down? how do you win this thing and get the nomination in the face of what appear to be somewhat long odds at the moment? >> i think momentum. he's won eight out of the nine last contests and we're hopeful here in new york. i know it's a very tough thing, but the fact that we're moving closer and closer everyday i

think should say something to the media that this is real. this is a concern for the average american voter. how do we not let them down? we continue to give voice to the concerns about income inequality, about the lack of an affordable higher education or housing that we want to hire minimum wage which we're really thrilled that new york just did. and then just keep on going, give everybody the opportunity to vote for what they want. make sure that the issues that we're raising are addressed in the democratic platform and that bernie gets the nomination. we can do it with momentum. i think the pledged delegates are getting -- we cut them by a third last week. so if we keep on going with this momentum, we can cut them and

cut them. i don't think anybody is going to get the amount of pledged delegates they need when we walk into the convention and if that happens then i would expect that people will be looking and saying who's the stronger candidate? and everybody poll shows that bernie is the stronger candidate against all the republicans and that's only going to get better. >> you don't think that hillary clinton will have the number of pledged delegates to secure the nomination going into the convention? >> going into the convention i think she'll be just short and we'll hopefully be just short and i think then we'll have a discussion about what the best way to go? >> because of the super delegates? if you take them off the table it's a different race. >> they haven't voted yet. >> and both establishments right now have their backs up against the wall relative to the process and you've commented on the process, particularly with the clinton charge that, you know, bernie's trying to rig the system. you've admitted, we knew what the rules were going in, unlike

some on my side who seem to forget the rules were there before him. that's fine. you seem to admit that. you have a much more optimistic view point of this process in terms of the potentiality of going into this convention a lot closer. how does that play itself out particularly given what steve noted here, you're down in new york right now. the numbers may be close but you're still down. the races ahead of you are still tough races. do you think a crowd like that 27,000 will translate into votes ultimately or is it just people just caught up in the momentum and the moment and that translation doesn't come? >> we've seen every election in every state bernie is down and then he moves forward and overtakes secretary clinton. if you have the momentum and you keep on winning state, people can't not pay attention and say this is the candidate that is moving us forward. the primary map wasn't good for

us. you start in the southeast. the conservative south and so it's hard to catch up when that happens. plus he wasn't well known. >> so let me ask you about something we've been talking about on the show this week, the super delegates. i don't understand them. you look at a situation -- i mean, i do understand them, they're meant to rig the system for the front-runner. >> they're an insurance policy. >> if the republican party has super delegates jeb bush would still be in the race. but how do you feel after you win a state like wyoming and you win it 56%/44%. in politics that's called a landslide and you awalk away frm it with fewer delegates than the person you beat by 12 points. is that a rigged system? >> we're getting used to it. >> but is that a rigged system for party insiders? >> i don't know that i would call it a rigged system. i don't -- every state has its

own rules. i think it's crazy. we're running a national election, we should have same-day registration, open primaries and caucuses and allow the people to vote. we have -- a lot of those -- probably a lot of those people out there in the crowd -- hopefully a small number comparatively -- are not even able to vote in this election because they didn't change their registration to democrat last october when they hadn't even heard of bernie sanders. we' bringing more people into the party and the party is shutting the door on them. that seems counterproductive to the long-term goals. but i think -- we're very hopeful. i guess what we've done is keep a very positive outlook and looking forward to changing the system. if he is the president and the head of the democratic party, we'll be changing the system to make it more democratic. >> all right, jane sanders,

thank you so much, congratulations. >> thanks for having me. >> what a night. tonight msnbc has exclusive back-to-back town hall, chris matthews will be sitting down with john kasich at 7:00 p.m. followed by ted cruz and chuck todd at 8:00 p.m. "morning joe" coming right back. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag.

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and coming up next -- >> will we turn our backs on the ideals of america that have seen us through more than two centuries or are we going to reaffirm that america is in ronald reagan's words this last best hope for man on earth. >> john kasich is trying to channel the optimism of ronald reagan but in this presidential cycle, is that just falling on deaf ears? we'll talk about that just ahead. and if you're in the city tonight, stop by prohibition on the upper west side for live music. joe will be there with his band. "morning joe" back if a moment. it's not an anti-aging face cream. it's realizing beauty doesn't stop at my chin. roc©'s formula adapts to delicate skin areas. my fine lines here? visibly reduced in 4 weeks. chest, neck & face cream from roc.© methods, not miracles. and to help you accelerate,ast. we've created a new company. ♪ one totally focused on what's next for your business.

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reagan's numbers were with jimmy carter. [ cheers and applause ] ronald reagan, who was great, he had a 30 favorability and he was behind jimmy carter by so much, everybody said oh, this is going to be a disaster. >> welcome back to "morning joe," with us, former special assistant to president reagan, james rosebush who's the longest serving chief of staff to first lady nancy reagan out with a new book "true reagan, what made ronald reagan great." everybody's throwing ronald reagan's name around and some people throwing his name around probably voted against him or would have if they were old enough to at the time. is who was true reagan? >> this is the book that tells the story reagan couldn't tell

himself about who he was. he was a man who was completely buttoned up, he was a gentleman of an earlier age. he identified more with the founding fathers than the politicians of his era and their values and so he believed that his presidency was more about america than about ronald reagan. you know, he left the white house the same man he came in as and he had that saying on his desk "there's no limit to what a man can achieve if he doesn't care who gets the credit" so he never talked about himself. he kept it all inside. this is the book that reveals that mystery. i hear so many people saying i want to be like reagan, of course a lot of politicians want to win massively like reagan won massively but they don't understand what made the man. he never would have been the pantheon of the top five presidents of u.s. history the way he is today had he not the character, the fiber and the values and belief system he had. >> talk about a man who wins 49

states berkshire hathaway loved by millions and millions of americans, seen as one of the two greatest presidents of the 20th century. but a man who the closer you get to him the more distant he seemed to get. nancy reagan at one point even said even i didn't see all the parts of ronald reagan. talk about that. >> it's interesting. there was almost a part of his genius as well not to reveal himself. had he gone to hollywood and into politics and revealed the nature of -- he spent a quarter of his lifetime really around his faith. he taught sunday school until he was 23 years old, never missed a sunday. drove from his college -- eureka college to dick sxon, illinois, miles every sunday. had he talked about his faith and foundational truths he believed in, he would have been marginalized in hollywood and in

politics. so in a way it caused a big problem. you walk down the street today and you hear "gee, i loved reagan, he took care of us, he was a strong president, i want reagan back and yet i don't understand the man." but we need to understand him in order to have more reagans. >> one of the chapters in your book is titled "the global evangelist." ronald reagan as the global evangelist. you talked about his faith. we've had other presidents including the incumbent president speak in cairo, speak in oslo with an evangelistic theme but reagan's seemed to resonate more than current presidents of the past two presidents have. do you think it was because of the time that he was speaking in? >> no, i think it's because he was more engaged with his message. so there's another chapter in my book that says his believes were his arsenal and his words his weapons. so when he signed off from every speech in the oval office and he gave more than any other president, more major press

conferences, talked to the american people more when he said god bless america you actually felt reagan wanted god to bless america because it was a part of his character. i remember one day i said to nancy reagan, i want to photograph you, bring the press corps into the kitchen, the family kitchen upstairs in the family quarters, put an apron on you and photograph you in the kitchen, she said jim, that will never work. i said why not? it's a great idea. sort of humanize you. she said because i never cook add kneel ed a meal in my life. [ laughter ] >> channel reagan for us for a moment watching this campaign and what's he making of it and looking at what trump has just said about his favorability ratings is being better than reagan's were and if you look at the unfavorability ratings trumps are much higher than reagan's in 1980s. where does he stand? >> that's the question.

everyone asks me and they ask michael what would reagan do. in the few weeks before nancy reagan's passing i was sitting with her in the library of her house in bel-air and we just spent a couple of hours talking about this political season, disruptive, all the disunity, what was going to happen, the coarseness, the vulgarity of this campaign and she was, of course, very disturbed by it and i said what do you think the president would think about it? and we were sitting next to an octagonal table in her library and she was holding on fiercely to my hands the way you don't know who is going to let go first but then she did and she started patting the table and she said "jim, this is the table where ronnie got his diagnosis from the doctors there from mayo clinic in 1994." and i said "how did he take it?" and she said "oh, jim, characteristically, with optimism." and i thought, this really

resonated with me and it cut know the quick because i thought well, would i see going on in the political landscape and in the world which is so troubling and disruptive and our own political campaigns i think ronald reagan still felt even when he signed his letter to the american people i still feel america's best days are ahead. that's why people loved ronald reagan. >> no doubt about it. >> he gave them home. >> james, thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate it. the book is "true reagan. what made ronald reagan great and why it matters." james rosebush, we greatly appreciate it. coming up next, how non-conformists gave the world. author adam grant explains why experience doesn't always equal creativity. we'll look at that through a political lens coming up next on "morning joe." sure, we could have stacked these tires. or put them on a rack. but the specialists at ford

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the greatest tv week of our lives! ladies and gentlemen, in the business of binge-watching, sleep is for the week! so i want you ready to order takeout, every single night! now are you with me? to awesomeness! to watchathon!! big is back. xfinity watchathon week starts april 18. the greatest collection of shows free with xfinity on demand. give them three to six months ahead, here are a series of political and economic events that are binary, you can predict whether they are going to happen or not, so if we did this recently we could ask what is putin going to do in ukraine or what's going to happen to the euro and we make predictions and find out who is right, i want to vote for the person who does that best. now, maybe they end up with all these teams that do it for them.

that's a great proxy for knowing who to listen to and those are the people i want to elect, too. i would rather see who can actually do the job, let's simulate what the job involves as opposed to saying let's do a gate. >> our next guest suggests there is a better way to pick the next president. joining us now is professor at the wharton school at the university of pennsylvania and psychologist adam grant, his latest book is "originals: how non-conformists move the world." when we have a political campaign that seems driven to drive out any non-conformist, everyone has to be so careful about what to say can we get originals winning? >> i think we can, that is the appeal of trump and sanders right now. they don't follow the old rules of the traditional party which appeals to a lot of young voters. >> we were talking offset about the problem with the way our academic system works now. the advantage we have over china, the advantage we have over a lot of other countries are steve jobs was right, we

think different. we're kind of crazy. like steve jobs himself said the reason bill gates' company wasn't as good as his because he didn't drop acid. we're crazy. but it seems like we're squeezing that out of our best and brightest in the admissions process to the best universities in the country. >> yeah, i worry a lot about that. i think that we have so many tiger moms and lombardi dads who are encouraging their dads kids to specialize and focus on one thing. practice does make perfect but it doesn't make new. you have all these kids who know who do things that have been done before but never have had to think for themselves. >> what ps to innovation and the pursuit of a 1600 sat score? >> if you try to innovate on the sat you are guaranteed to fail then good luck with college admissions. >> you're asking kids to be prepared to fail, right, effectively because if you are going to try things that are different and creative and original failure is going to be part of that process as well and

these kids are up against kids from china and around the world who are getting the best schools anyone could ever have imagined in history, they are not failing. >> i'm a fan of the barry schwartz proposal to make college admissions a lottery. you have a bar for what you have to hit in grades and maybe test scores, too, but you don't set at the at the very top and it's a random process at that way. there are admissions committees that think they're selecting the right candidates but nobody ever knows. >> i've been involved in college admissions, yes, they think they're selecting the right candidates and they don't get it all right but i think they probably have a higher probability of success if you define success in conventional terms rather than a random process. >> i think the argument for it is if you take a step back and know there is going to be randomness that affects your outcome you won't try to create the perfect resumé with no failure, you can take some risks and do things different from your peers and you are much more likely to have kids who arrive

at college thinking for themselves as opposed to thinking how do i master the process. >> and they start thinking about that when -- or their parents do when they're 7, 8, 9, 10. i remember starting my daughter at kindergarten here in new york city and all the parents were so intense. >> insane. >> i had two older kids and i would walk up to them and go, dude, you have to relax, they are what they are and the best thing you can do is guide them. there is that intensity that so many kids go through from the beginning to end. maybe the answer is you set aside we encourage diversity and should encourage diversity but how about setting aside 25% of admissions to schools not based on academic scores, not based on the sat but based on the very things that you're talking about. i'm saying this because the future of our economy depends on encouraging the sort of creativity that dropouts like bill gates and steve jobs

showed. >> it does. and i would love to see george lucas had this proposal, he said, why don't we have creative portfolios adds part of the adssions process. you can make a movie, write a story, create some art and then you are expected to do something a little bit original. wouldn't that be a great step? >> it really would. we were talking about china. i saw a study one time of chinese students and they were asked what's the one thing you would like us to improve on and they said we would like to learn how to think like americans. >> that's so interesting. >> that's something that actually -- because of course they get the information, they jam the information into their students that seems that we are actually starting to copy that approach instead of embracing what has made us great for 240 years. >> yeah, there is a great question institute that's trying to help teachers learn how to ask better questions in class and encourage students also to ask questions as opposed to just giving answers. i think that's a step in the

right direction but we have a long way to go. >> all right. thank you so much. the book is originals, adam grant, greatly appreciate it. you need to come back. >> looking forward to it. another iconic moment for the sanders campaign last night, filling new york's washington square park with up to 27,000 supporters. and kasie hunt said, speaking of originals, a lot of the spaces there smelled like pot. all right. we also have hillary clinton -- that's not a shock. >> what are you surprised about? >> i'm not surprised at all i'm just reporting, okay? >> also senator claire mccaskill joins the conversation, we will ask her what's wrong with the st. louis cardinals, 4-4. oh, my gosh. >> it's going to be a long year, huh? >> we are back. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. ♪ the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. ♪

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where i grew up in brooklyn, the american dream -- the american dream was alive and well. my dad came to this country from poland at the age of 17, didn't have a nickel in his pocket. together we are going to create an economy that works for all of us, for the elderly, the children, the sick, the poor, the middle class and the working families of this country, not just the 1%. just incredible. bernie sanders last night in new

york city and bernie has added one more iconic moment to this campaign. i remember him standing on the back of the pickup truck in new hampshire with a microphone looking a lot like bobby kennedy, a bobby kennedy shot from '68 after his iowa win or tie or draw. and then the america ad and, mike, that last night. 27,000 in washington square. >> why would he get out? drawing that kind of crowd, that kind of enthusiasm. kasie hunt you were there last night. >> i was. this -- this is peak bernie sanders. this is everything that we've been talking about for the last three months kind of all came together in one. you could see it even when he took the stage he was a little bit emotional and sort of took -- stepped back to really take it all in. i think he's -- you know, as he's had to fight the narrative

that he should get out and that hillary clinton is going to be the presumptive democratic nominee, i think this at the end of the day is what keeps him in this. >> few rallies like this, jon mile ha heilemann, in modern american politics. it happens, but it happens rarely. in new york city in the top media market in the country, just an absolutely stunning -- some stunning shots come to mind. >> they're stunning visuals. a lot of campaigning about -- a lot of what campaigning in new york is about when you have a primary here is about making moments and the moment that really -- because this is the media capital of the world, these images get captured, get broadcast and echo louder and longer than they do other places. in some way sanders going to places like topeka, kansas, places that kasie and i have been and he has been on a tuesday afternoon where he gets 10,000 or 12,000 people are in some ways more impressive but this is the image that gets cap

turtd and in this primary these are the -- >> katty, he needs this momentum, the polls showing he is behind in new york state, it's a state he has to win. >> that's the question is where does the moment lead to, right? >> right. >> we are still in the same position that we were in before this rally happened. yeah, it looks great for him, yes, clearly he can get the huge crowds, of course now he doesn't have pull out and he's making that argument, we keep winning and having these crowds, we are not going to pull out but the numbers are stacked against him and she still looks like the presumptive nominee. >> if you can keep that british cynicism on that side of -- no, you are right. if you don't translate it to votes it doesn't matter. >> it looks fabulous. barack obama translatesed it into votes. he had fewer people in his crowd in 2007 but he got the votes. >> september 2007, yeah, huge crowd, same place. >> last night we did hear him for the first time kind of acknowledge that this was going to be a tough primary for him. he was up there on that stage and said, you know, we know this

is going to be hard, partly because of the way the primary is structured, independence can't vote, a lot of people didn't switch their registration in time they know that that's an uphill battle for them. i think there is a sense from the campaign and, jon, i think you've picked up on some of this, too, that if they didn't come out of new york with a big win they have to sort of start to reckon with when and how they are going to close this. >> the key thing is if bernie sanders wins this primary by a point or two it's actually -- it will actually hurt him in the sense that in order to actually get to a majority of delegates he needs to win these primaries by large margins. >> right. >> if he wins by two points here it will be a psychic victory, a huge momentum boost and yet it won't get him any net delegates and he is 200 some odd delegates behind in the pledged delegates. it doesn't help to win by one or two or three percentage points, he has to win by ten and that's not likely to happen for him to

actually gain delegates against her. >> it doesn't help in the math but, mike, talk about the intangibles, beating hillary clinton in her home state, that would run his winning streak up to, what, eight, nine? >> and speaking of the intangibles, there's one intangible that's sort of mystifying to me viewing it from a distance, you two have viewed it up close, the new york feel. who has a better sense of it? does bernie born in brooklyn or hillary who has represented new york? because the crowd last night was spectacular. i don't think it was the essence of new york. it was largely young's, they enthusiastic and good for bernie, but who has a better sense of the state? >> i think she has had -- if you look at the period of time the week basically that they've been here now in the state campaigning, she has shown a better feel for the totality of new york, for the media

dynamics. she's won more news cycles in the last week than he has. although he is from brooklyn he's been a vermont politician his entire career. although she has not won here in a decade she still has won statewide here twice, once resoundingly back in 2006. she gets this state a little better in terms of how you win the day, how you get the rough and tumble, she is a little stronger than he is. >> she can still bank on her 2006 experience and realization of how much time she had to spend upstate. she spent a lot of time on that listening tour. >> she also campaigned against obama here in 2008 and beat him pretty soundly. she had done this state a lot. >> just for the record, welcome to "morning joe." >> wait, that's why we're here. >> mika is in the south of france checking her second house out in niece.

>> is she going to take barnicle's pickup truck to niece? >> seriously, please. >> it takes a lot of time up, picking out houses. >> it does. all of the people that work for her in those two houses it's pretty hard. anyway, mike barnicle, who is he? guys, is he legendary or what? legendary columnist. >> we have kasie hunt with us, john heilemann and katty kay with the news. katty. >> should we get to the latest on what is happening? >> non-bernie news because bernie had to be the lead. >> bernie was definitely the lead. but donald trump continues to revamp his campaign leadership, there is trump news adding veteran operatives to catch up to ted cruz who has outorganized the businessman in the delegate race so far. yesterday he announced the hiring of rick wiley, the former campaign manager for swot walker who nerves as the rnc's political director during the

2002 campaign. it is seen as strengthening the hand of paul man fort within the campaign as trump continues to protest the rnc protest. >> in colorado right now they're picketing and going wild because the bosses and the establishment and the people that shouldn't have this power took all of the power away from the voters, so the voters never got to vote and the voters didn't know that except when i got up and campaigned because they did it after i joined the race and they figured i'd probably win colorado, which i would, i would win colorado, and we had delegates they go in, they don't take them and then they take these others so they get the delegates without voting. i'm just saying the system is a corrupt system, it's a rigged system. we've got to change it. >> and yesterday rnc chair reince priebus who trump accused of knowing the process was being rigged against him says he doesn't take these barbs

seriously. >> i have to respond if the party of which i am a chairman of is getting attacked. especially when it's not true. people get frustrated when things don't go the same way, when they're frustrated and upset they say things they don't regret but one thing that's true is that the rules are not being changed in order to injure or benefit anybody. >> late last night trump wrote on twitter the rules did change in colorado shortly after i entered the race in june because the politicians and their bosses knew i would win with the voters. he also promoted a process march in colorado tomorrow adding, don't let the bosses take your vote. this is ahead of colorado's republican party says that he and his family are receiving death threats, joe. nice. >> a lot about colorado. john heilemann, i don't think it's the numbers in colorado that matter to trump, this is a

perfect vehicle for him to keep saying the systems are rigged, he plays to his voters in new jersey, california, everybody who believes the system is rigged and are voting for trump because of that are reinforced in their support on him. >> i think on the merits the argument is wrong in the sense that the rules were not changed to benefit anybody in particular, i think reince priebus is right to the extent there are rules changes that took place nearly a year ago trump's campaign has failed to reckon with those. >> isn't it strange that state awards delegates and don't let their people vote? >> well, yeah. >> yeah. >> there are a ton of strange anomalies in this -- >> i'm just saying generally. if i'm a republican in colorado i'm thinking i kind of would like o to have a say on who wins the republican nomination. >> if i were a republican in colorado i would not like that system but again the system was not changed in order to disadvantage trump. all i'm saying is on the merits

its not a strong argument ofment, politically it is a very strong argument, it taps into this sense that the populous energy for the people who fuel trump's campaign, that the system is out to screw him and screw them. >> he's picked up another republican insider, he has now got people from a lot of different -- i guess he's got people now from scott walker's campaign, people from ben carson's campaign, people, again, more -- he has manafort running it all. >> right. >> along with cory lewandowski. >> right. >> he's going a bit more mainstre mainstream, isn't he? >> i think he has he recognized that allow he's railing against the system in public, he understands that in order to actually win the nomination he's going to have to play that game and so he needs people who know how to play that game, whether it's at the convention itself or the run up to the convention, he noods more people who understand these rules and are able to compete with the people ted cruz

has playing the game very well. >> and also katty discipline himself in the way that he has over the past week or two. you haven't seen the twitter screams, he actually sat down with megyn kelly yesterday, someone he said he would never sit down with trying to make peace with her. >> in that moment having his family there and even his family telling him we've told him he has to discipline himself. >> you say the cnn town hall with the family, i didn't see it, but you said compelling tv. >> it was donald trump playing the part of robert young in the old father knows best tv series. >> he wasn't loud, he wasn't boisterous, he was compellingly cooperative. he gave most of the time to his family. he was often quiet. there were long stretches that he said nothing. >> no one said anything ground breaking, let's be honest, it was all fairly, you know, straightforward, pro trump. >> it was a very compelling testament to have all of his

family, his children are all such articulate spokes people on his behalf. >> i don't know if anybody saw the cruz town hall last night, too, because i would say the same about the hour they spent last night. particularly when they brought the daughters up they looked like a normal real family. >> we have known donald for ten years or so, a lot of people will say what's he really like? i say he's not really like that guy you see on tv. >> that's right. >> i always tell the stories one of the things that's most compelling is the way the guy acts when the cameras isn't on him and i remember commenting on his children. a lot of people that have money their kids are just jerks. i said i don't know donald, you know, a lot of people say a lot of stuff about you, but the one thing i will say is i judge a person many times by their children and what donald said with nobody looking is -- he said don't give me any credit for that, he said, ivana is

extraordinary. it's their mother. what an incredible woman. she made them who they are and then she handed them off to me. fully formed and great. and said it's your turn and he just said i'm lucky. he said they are incredible kids. that five years ago when nobody was looking is probably some of what everybody saw the other night the side of donald trump that unfortunately he does not show enough. >> it hasn't come out very much at all in in campaign. i remember they did a people magazine spread early on, he and melania at home, but he did talk about what family means to him. even if you listen around the edges he said i want to go home and spend time at home with my family. it's clear that's important to him but i think that gets missed quite a bit. the cnn town hall where you got a chance to see it. it was remarkable to see him physically sit back in his chair and just kind of watch his family speak on his behalf.

i hadn't seen that before. >> it was a great moment. the one thing he has been a disciplinarian about is drinks and drugs, he says to hem every morning when they were growing up, no alcohol, no drugs, you just don't do it. i did want to ask the kids did you? >> he's saying i have never had a glass of alcohol in my life and ivanka saying i used to roll my eyes at my dad every day but that was the message. >> still ahead on "morning joe" the banks are getting bigger unless they aren't. we will be talking to "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner about that. plus another bernie sanders supporters helped anger over bernie brost by using harsh language. senator claire mccaskill joins us and we will talk about the 2016 race. you're watching "morning joe." (boy) ma, pa - why do we settle for cable? (mom) because we're settlers and that's what we do. (girl) but with directv and at&t, you can get your tv and wireless service from one provider. (dad) are not we your providers?

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everyone really knows my relationship to pennsylvania, it's a special relationship and we're going to keep it going. i went to school in this state, right? we know that, right? this is the town of the pittsburgh steelers, which we love, we do love the pittsburgh steelers. it's steel city and when i'm president, guess what, steel is coming back to pittsburgh and a lot of other things are coming back. how is joe paterno? are we going to bring that back, right? how about that whole -- how about that whole deal? >> and we do love penn state. do we love penn state, i mean, in all fairness? >> all right. joining the table we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. i'm curious, do you bring up paterno? >> cruz did. ted cruz did in pennsylvania yesterday. >> trump just did.

>> i think he was mimicking what -- >> trump did initially, right, say i'm bringing him back and there was -- and then the campaign said he was referring to the statue, but the audience thought maybe he didn't realize that paterno died. >> i just kind of stay away from that. >> kind of an obvious one. >> let's just not really -- >> anyway, so we have steve rattner here. steve, we will talk about your charts for a second, but you had yesterday the most read article in the "new york times" and you were talking about republicans being to blame for the rise of trump, they can curse him all they want but you say in large part it's their own economic policies that have created donald trump's success. >> well, yeah, i made a fairly simple argument, i think, which is that if the republicans in congress particularly had not blocked every single piece virtually of legislation that obama put forward, try to improve the state of average americans, things like wage

insurance and other -- explanation of the earned income tax credit, things like that, that the same trump base that is now his base would be somewhat better off economically, perhaps less angry, perhaps less in the trump camp. >> but what on -- a lot of the fixes that you listed seem like more sort of band-aids, short-term fixes to take care of the damage that's already been done. what are some of the -- what would be, if you could name -- now i think obviously infrastructure, you're talking about the infrastructure bank, i think that's an exception, i think infrastructure does create jobs, create more jobs, create more jobs, but if you could make a suggestion to the republican party moving forward knowing that they're market driven, small government types, what would be the one thing that you would recommend the republican party adopt to reach out to working class americans that now feel deserted by let's just say

the paul ryan wing of the party? >> i think there is a long-term category and short term. all the stuff people say about education and things like that are all important. but that's a generational change. you are not going to take a 55-year-old guy and make him into a software programmer. you have to do the long-term stuff for a generation and then the short term. >> payroll taxes. >> or this idea of wage insurance, if you lose your job and take a lower paying one the government gives you up to $10,000 or half of your earnings, whichever is less for two years to help cushion the blow. if some of these people had seen something coming from the government toward them. some sign or symbol that the government was trying to ep help them. maybe they would be a lot less angry, maybe be in john kasich's camp. >> banks and wall street are going to be a key part of the topics that are covered at tonight's democratic debate, steve rattner has charts on

whether or not the banks are getting bigger and the influence that wall street pay will have on this election. steve, what have you got there? >> the last time i discussed this joe and i almost came a blows. >> no, we didn't. why do you always say that? >> i always say that. we had a spirited discussion. so i wanted to give him equal time. >> i just responded to what you were saying. >> okay. in any event, look, banks are going to be on the agenda tonight obviously at this debate and you will hear a lot of confusing stuff about whether banks are getting big or not getting bigger. i want to try to lay out why they are or aren't getting bigger and then talk a little bit about wall street pay. if you look at this and i say, joe and bernie, big banks are getting bigger a lot of it has to do with where you measure from. if you start from the beginning of the financial crisis, 2004, you can see here that the banks, in fact, a number of them are getting bigger by reasonable sizes, except for citi bank, but that is largely because these banks made large acquisitions.

they bought washington mutual, country wide, merrill lynch so their assets grew. if instead you take a look at the banks from after these acquisitions happened and simply what's happened in the more recent time you see a much more modest picture, in fact, you see declines for most of the banks. small increase here for jpmorgan, but bank of america smaller, citi smaller, wells fargo larger but they are basically a retail bank based out on the west coast. so hillary's point would be the banks really aren't much bigger, the problem is a different kind of problem and needs a different kind of solution. let's take a look at the last thing on which there is not a lot of disagreement which is wall street pay. if you go back to 1982 the average wall street worker in new york got roughly twice, about $100,000 what the average worker in the rest of the private economy got in new york. if you look at it today even after the financial crisis at $400,000 versus $72,000 the

average wall street worker is getting six times. so from two times to six times over this 30-year period. even at the time of occupy wall street in 2011 the average private sector worker was getting about -- the average wall street worker was getting about five times what a private sector worker was getting. so there is a real basis behind this anger towards wall street, this sense that wall street is winning and everybody else is losing. >> mike. >> let's go back to the big banks and bernie is very popular theme that he has been carrying on now for years actually. what has happened to the smaller banks that bernie sanders favors, the community banks, the things that he says would be a vital part of rebuilding localized america? >> up dramatically. if you look at the banks over $500 billion of assets, they declined by 2%, they have lost 2% of their assets. if you look at everybody else below that you will see increases of 25%, of 30%, of 35%. all the growth in the banking

system has gone to these smaller and middle-sized banks, the ones that he wants to help. >> coming up on "morning joe" senator claire mccaskill will be with us live, we are going to talk to her about a strange chapter in america, the st. louis cardinals, 4-4. talk about weeping and nashing of teeth, we will see if clair will come on this show and set cloth to ashes. there's always an excuse. me joins us to give us her excuse next. rry about a cracked windshield. so she scheduled at safelite.com and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there. so she didn't miss a single shot. (cheering crowd) i replaced her windshield... giving her more time for what matters most... how'd ya do? we won! nice! that's another safelite advantage. thank you so much! lite replace.♪ and ca"super food?" is that recommend sya real thing?cedar? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her?

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i think you're holding it close to the vest how hard you're going to hit. >> oh, you have no idea. >> and if they -- and if they hit back is everything on the table? >> yeah, i don't care. to me it doesn't matter. >> donald trump previewing a potential game plan against hillary clinton. with us now from capitol hill we have claire mccaskill from missouri, katty kay and michael steele back with us as well. senator, we're very concerned about the cardinals. >> oh, don't worry your pretty little head about the cardinals, we will be shine. >> thank you for calling me pretty, i do appreciate t but i'm more than just pretty. pretty enough as they say. so how are the cardinals going to do this year? i lot of injuries. >> yeah, there's good news really a lot of good news. these two new bats have been

bought, hazelbacker and ruez have been good. i think our starting pitching rotation needs a little work but the bats lit up after the cold weather in pittsburgh. i think we are feeling pretty good. >> what about those dreaded cubbies, do you think we're entering into a period where the dark side of the force is going to reign over the empire for a while or at least the national league east? >> they have some former guys who wore the birds on the back that are pretty good. i think it's going to be as always an amazing rivalry, one of the most fun i think in baseball because of how the fans intersect and the larger regions. i think -- and of course last year the cubs had trouble in the playoffs because after they beat the cardinals they thought they had won the world series and gave up. >> exactly. mike. >> well, senator, because we like you so much and because we're all very friendly here in

new york with my friend thigh owe epstein you are going to be to the world series as a guest of the show cubs. >> how sweet of you, barnicle. >> senator, we apologize for that. how are you feeling? >> i feel great. >> that's fantastic. treatment going okay? >> treatment is going well. you know, it was caught very early and i will tell you that in the middle of all this vitriol and ugliness in these campaigns, even my haters on twitter were being sweet to me during that period of time. so it was really uplifting and i want to thank you and so many "morning joe" viewers that reached out to me in various ways. it was very nice. >> well, we love you and obviously we're always here for you. it also -- i guess when you get news like that it puts everything into perspective, not that you didn't have everything in perspective, but just how stupid sometimes the day in and day out concerns of politics are. people -- people come up to me

and i always say, just relax. it's politics. >> yeah. yeah. no, it is. and i think it does put things in perspective. it's hard, i think, this cycle because there's so much out there and the problems are serious and complicated and some of the rhetoric that's being thrown around is, you know, just -- some of it's offensive and some of it's unrealistic. i just hope that everyone gets past kind of the superficial ugliness that frankly is too prevalent and gets down to the nitty-gritty and figures out who can move the needle and who can actually get something done on these complicated problems, both foreign and domestic. >> senator, katty here. we saw a lot of that vitriol and ugliness on the republican side, are you worried it's creeping in on the democratic side, there were fairly ugly words thrown around last night in new york at the bernie sanders rally. >> i worry about the tone and i worry about it on both sides. it's really important we keep the tone where it should be.

it is unacceptable for anybody to reference hillary clinton as a corporate whore and that's what happens in the introduction last night at that rally and i have not yet heard bernie sanders say totally unacceptable. it's totally unacceptable. >> bernie sanders has just tweeted that it was inappropriate and unacceptable himself. >> well, good for him, but he should have done it from the podium the minute those words were issued. there was a huge cheer that went up when hillary clinton was called a corporate whore and that's when the candidate has to step in and go, wait a minute, guys, remember what the real enemy is here. it is the policies and values represented by ted cruz and donald trump. we've got to be united in november. there's way too much at stake. that's why tone matters. >> senator, why do you think it is that senator sanders has only received one endorsement from a fellow member of the united states senate, senate merkel from oregon? why not -- he has been around a long time. why not more?

>> i think there is a couple of reasons. first i think it's important to remember that hillary is winning, she's got almost 2 1/2 million more votes than bernie sanders, she's got a delegate lead that is so suggest that it is very difficult to imagine a scenario where she is not going to go into the convention with by far the most popular vote, by far the most pledged delegates. so i think that's part of it is the senators see that. and also we want someone who gets that this is about not just winning the presidency, but winning other democratic elections and supporting the democratic party because we can't move the needle if we don't have bigger numbers of democrats in the house and the senate. and frankly compromise is sometimes necessary in our constitutional form of government and all of us have not seen bernie very willing to compromise on much during the time he has been in congress in 23 years. >> senator, michael steele here. shifting gears a little bit, you met yesterday with supreme court

nominee merrick garland and i presume that went well. he said that he would not be an activist judge in any sense and yet you still have chairman of the judiciary committee chuck grassley and others saying the blockade will stay in place, that they will not honor the process and allow merrick at least to meet fully with senate members. how do you see that playing out right now and what's the background that you're hearing from republicans and democrats alike about how this is playing out in washington and around the country? >> well, i think mitch mcconnell before the body literally -- before justice scalia's body was even cold he said we won't even have hearings, we won't even consider it. now, i don't gt that. let me make sure i'm clear about this. i have no problem if republicans want to say to the american people we will not vote for an obama nominee. that's fine. but to play politics with the constitution and to say there

will be no hearings, there will be no vote, that's just unprecedented in history. it has never happened. and i think most americans don't like it. i don't think -- you know, let's just have a hearing, let the american people vet this nominee and then vote no. that's your duty under the constitution. i love these guys who wave the constitution when it's convenient. >> clair, bill clinton has gotten into a bit of a mess on the campaign trail over the past week in talking about who super predators were in the 1990s. does he owe black americans an ag apology? >> i think context is important and i think sometimes he feels -- he wants to defend his record and his record was, you know -- we had community policing in those days and if you look at ferguson and other communities, a lot of the problems that are bubbling up is because the police officers aren't trusted, they are not known and they are not trusted.

>> right. >> when you do community policing it makes a real difference when people in the neighborhood people like they know the police officer, they work with that police officer. so community policing was a really positive thing that occurred because of that crime bill. >> but do you think bill clinton's crime bill, though, with mass incarceration and with some of the other -- some of the other more extreme parts of that legislation back in '94, do you think that contributed to an environment that led to events like ferguson? >> like every piece of long and complicated legislation there were good parts of it and there were parts that probably didn't foresee how far that pendulum would swing and that is wrong and i believe both hillary and bill clinton believe that was wrong. on the other hand, i'm a little confused about the outrage about bernie sanders about the crime bill since he voted for it. and so, you know -- and i was a prosecutor at that time and, believe me, the resources we got to do community policing, to do

crime prevention, to do things like drug courts, that was all done during the clinton administration where we were taking people out of prison and putting them in a therapeutic drug court program not putting them in jail. so i just think it's important that we remember overall the impotence of that bill was to help neighborhoods fight a really violent crime epidemic. >> mike barnicle, a lot of people don't realize that clair was a prosecutor in kansas city and in fact her son once called her the best, right, clair? >> well -- >> what did he tell the teacher? >> oh, yeah. well, he was confused. he was writing a paper, he was in the second grade and i explained to him that i was a big prosecutor in kansas city how great i was and he accidentally when he wrote the paper said i was the best prostitute in kansas city. it's in the scrapbook. >> so you still have that in the scrapbook? >> he was confused and the teacher thought it was hysterical and obviously it was.

>> all right. best prosecutor. best prosecutor in kansas city. clair, thank you so much. it's great to have you back. >> thank you. >> we hope to see you very soon. >> thank you. all right. coming up next, talk about getting personal, "time" magazine seems to be iepd minding everybody's business with their latest cover. we will explain that next on "morning joe." woman: it's been a journey to get where i am. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options.

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it was always just a hobby. something you did for fun. until the day it became something much more. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade. the new issue of "time" magazine is looking at america's skyrocketing national debt, the cover personalized for each and every subscriber shows the dollar amount that every american man, woman and child would need to pay to erase the $13.9 trillion of u.s. debt. as you can see this is mika's copy. don't worry, joe, you have one as well. >> fantastic. >> yeah.

you've got your own little bit of debt that you owe. >> is joe's different? >> he has a lot more. >> terrible. >> he spends a lot more. >> it's only going to get worse. i mean, you look at entitlements, you look at demographics. >> right. >> it just gets worse for us. >> that is not something that drumpd is thinking of addressing, entitlements. >> says he's not going to. it's the very thing we have to. >> time for business before the bell with cnbc's dominic chu. what stories as well as the debt are you looking at this morning? >> i don't know. i'm just a small guy here who doesn't really have all that kind of money to talk about. so i will leave it at that. anyway, let's talk about what's happening with day two of the verizon workers strike. after yesterday's cameo appearance by bernie sanders who slammed the company for its perceived employment policies verizon's ceo wanted to set the record straight. in a blog post he vented his frustration with sanders and his, quote, uninformed views. he countered sanders' assertion

that the company doesn't pay its taxes and that it was looking to conduct mass layoffs of workers or ship jobs overseas. now, turning to the tech world here, it's a battle for supremacy in silicon valley and it's taken another interesting turn here. social media giant facebook has fired formal google manager reg na do you goel to connect the world. the unit at facebook is going to be calling building aids, working on things like artificial intelligence and virtual reality. she was previously head of the pentagon's darfa. a big profile hire for facebook. >> thank you so much. dominic chu. greatly appreciate it. if i'm not mistaken hillary visited the picketers. didn't she go i have a speak there? >> to the verizon workers? >> in the past. i thought she gave a speech there and got paid $225,000 for her hour speech.

maybe she could have gone from a may 2013 speech cooperation played clinton $225,000. maybe she could have just gone around to the picketers and handed some of that money out. >> what john lennon is saying, a working class hero is something to be. all right. coming up next -- >> you know, somebody asked me the other day, well, you know, folks are wondering, can a grandmother be president? i said, well, i sure think so. a lot of grandfather's have been president. >> i've never actually wondered that, but now that's out on the table, we can ask the less leslie stahl about it. she joins us to talk about the woman who could become the first grandmother president. keep it right here on "morning joe." xerox predictive analytics help companies provide a better and faster customer experience. hello mr. kent. can i rebook your flight?

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correspondent for 60 minutes lesley stahl. great to have her back. she's back with a new book "becoming grandma, the joyce and sciences of new grandparenting." first we want to get your take on the presidential race so far. hillary clinton also looks like she may be set again to make history. >> she might. >> she might. >> at least if she's the first grandmother to be the white

house. you know, i went up with frank luntz to do a -- see him do a focus group in new hampshire over a year ago, scott walker was number one, donald trump was nowhere, not on the radar at all, and i wanted to see if her being a grandmother would soften her image. >> right. >> and they were all republicans in the focus group and several of them thought it would. i'm surprised to be honest with you that it doesn't seem to have because grandmothers have this lovely reputation, all of us, as being soft and warm and cozy, just a kind of image she really needs to begin to foster. >> yeah. >> given what the focus group's people say about her. >> it doesn't seem like she's gone there. there have been a couple of moments in the campaign and really one of my favorite moments of the campaign was when somebody asked her what the most important thing was about, you know -- that she -- she said love. and then she went into this beautiful description about how

difficult love was she said but a friend of mine told me at the end of her life i looked back at all my accomplishments, they were nothing. she said, but love, that was -- that's what is worth fighting for. and it was a beautiful moment but she doesn't give us enough of those moments. >> and it's surprising because that's when you become a grandmother that business about love is what is changing you so much because you love those little kids beyond anything you have ever felt before. and i have heard her talk about it so i know that she is a typical grandmother in that sense. >> right. >> you could see it coming to the fore. the other thing about grandmothers is that they have an innate authority and people will accept an older woman in authority much more easily than they will accept a younger woman. >> i'm a little surprised that she isn't playing it up more. >> i will give you a plug for the book it's come in at number five on "the new york times" best seller list. why is it resonating so much?

>> i think because all the new grandmothers and grandfather's are baby boomers and they are now -- they're between 50 and 70, they are all becoming grandmothers and grandfather's every day. 30,000 new grandparents in the united states every week. >> wow. >> every week. i wonder why there aren't grandparents blocks, voting blocks, seriously. so i just think there are -- i said grandma, but there are a lot of grandpa if here, too, and i think they are becoming the readers, the people who are the big demographic in the united states are here and no one has written about it before. >> so becoming grandma, two questions. do your granddaughters call you grammy or grandma, that's one question and the second question is how did it change you becoming a grandmother? >> well, they don't call me grandma, although i was so old when i finally got a grandchild

that they could have called me anything, i wouldn't care. i was just panting to be a grandmother and i do think we have an innate craving for it because it's what's supposed to be, our fweens are saying that's your next phase. so they call me lowelly and my husband pop so we are lollipop. it's changed me in every conceivable way. the depth of emotion is so intense and so full body. are you a grandfather? >> yeah. >> do you know what i'm talking about? >> yes, i do, sort of. i'm different than. >> you we're guys, come on. we never get it. >> they're grandpa. >> come on. what do you expect? >> just you wait, henry hig begins, when you are a grandfather and you say tell me about your grandchildren, grandfather their shoulders go soft, faces go soft and they are just where we are as

grandparents. >> mike plays a touch game. i spend one day with him in boston driving around, he literally drives around, he is the concierge and counselor of hisser children 24/7. they are his life. >> that's true. >> i want to see him when his grandchildren walk in the room and light up when they see you. what do they call you? >> mike. [ laughter ] >> they do. >> that is so bizarre. i have to say it's very upper west side. mike. >> mike. >> i was with tom brokaw last night. he has five grandchildren and i said to him what do they call you, he said tom. >> wow. >> grandma, congratulations, the book is "becoming grandmother". >> great to have you here. >> congratulations. tonight at 8:30 at prohibition you cannot miss it. >> you're going to be there, katty, i can tell. >> joe playing music. thank you so much for joining

us. steve kornacki picks up the coverage after the break. don't let a cracked windshield ruin your plans. trust safelite. with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" you'll know exactly when we'll be there. giving you more time for what matters most. (team sing) ♪safelite repair, safelite replace.♪

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