certainly not donald trump. >> reporter: thank you very much, guys. i should say the bethel center for the arts is current owner of the property here. they're a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization. but as you know -- back to you. >> tony dokoupil, woodstock. the site of woodstock '94, anybody remember that? that's it for this hour. i'm steve kornacki. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's thursday, it's ted cruz's biggest challenge, trying to find the right balance in his fight with the establishment. he knows they don't want trump. but the hard part is they don't enfirely want him either, yet. this is "mtp daily." live from buffalo, and it starts right now. welcome to "mtp daily." we're coming to you live from buffalo, new york, our host

tonight. a nickel city staple, lovely folks at anchor bar, home of this. the delicious chicken wing that you now many of you call buffalo wings. well, invented here. some dispute, if it's this bar or another one, we're sticking with this story right here. thank you, anchor bar. thank you for letting us be here. wings are as good as advertised. ted cruz trying to peel off votes from donald trump's big lead here. polls now place him in a very distant third place, actually. and it could mean that trump has a full sweep of the 95 delegates and cruz doesn't get anything. cruz is going to make inroads anywhere, it's here in western new york, specifically this buffalo market. his challenge, trying to unite a party that doesn't want trump. the hard part is that they don't really want him either. today, in fact, he doubled down on his critique of the establishment in the republican party, that of course he's going to need on his side if he's

going to overtake the front-runner. listen to what he told me calling mitch mcconnell a liar back in july. >> you called the senate majority leader a liar on the senate floor. that's not sat well with your colleagues. do you regret calling him a liar on the senate floor. >> washington is an amazing place. when somebody stands up and lies to you, someone else points out that they lied -- >> he lied to you. you still stand by -- >> every word i said was true and accurate. no one has disputed a word i said. reaction in the senate is, how dare you say that out loud. they're not upset somebody lied to them. that's the amazing thing. >> that's a remark -- that's the thing, how do you stand working with somebody who lies to you? how can you work with them going forward? if. >> what i have done from day one, it's a promise i made to

people who elected me, i'm going to tell the truth, and i'm going to do what i said i would do. >> see that answer really gets at cruz's struggle with the establishment. he needs them but they haven't wholeheartedly supported him and it may be the reason why. that confrommentationle attitude crystallizes the relationship with the crowd. send the message to social conservative base, he's with them, but not so much as to turn off some more moderate republican voters. cruz has not figured out the right balance but he's trying. here's another place where some may say he struggled, personhood legislation, he would declare the legislation would declare life begins at moment of conception. such measures could lead to abortion plans or jeopardize abortion control. >> i hope we have a culture that values every human life from the moment of conception until the

moment of natural death. >> you have to pursue it -- >> i told you i'm not going to get into labels. we should protect life but i'm not interested in anything that restricts birth control or in vitro fertilization because parents who are struggling to create life to have a child, that is a wonderful thing. >> sounds like you think this movement doesn't -- there isn't legislation yet you could support for this? >> what i believe is that we should defend life. i have a long record of defending life, of defending -- >> no one's questioning whether pro-life. that's why i'm asking. would you pursue this? >> i will happily support anything that protects life and protecting life is a value that matters, whether it is stopping partial birth abortion which i think is a barberism or whether fairly enforcing criminal laws against planned parenthood.

>> it gets, again, you saw on the personhood answer, he didn't want to basically come down on either side definitively. we'll get into that later. over at the other end of the state, john kasich in the hot seat with chris matthews in jericho, new york. kasich pressed on his position on same-sex marriage and says it's time to move on from the court ruling. >> do you tolerate same-sex marria marriage. >> yeah. i'm not -- yes. >> do you tolerate it. >> i went to one. >> i know you did. >> i don't think it's right. and the wedding that i went to, they know i don't agree with it. >> what should gay people do who wlov each other. >> what should they do? >> if they love each other. >> love each other. >> not get married? >> i've given you the answer. i believe in traditional marriage. i've accepted the court ruling, okay. >> so wait. >> here's the thing. there could be an effort to pass a constitutional amendment, i'm not for doing. i'm for moving on. >> yeah. >> you know what? i'm also -- i'm also a believer that if i don't like what

somebody is doing, i got a couple of things i can do. i can tolerate it, i can say something, or i can pray for a person. >> you can catch both town hall events tonight exclusively for the full conversations with both candidates, john kasich's town hall with chris matthews 7:00 p.m. eastern, followed by my sit-down with ted cruz and new yorkers in buffalo. that will air at 8:00 p.m. eastern. both contenders are trying to hard to keep donald trump from reaching 50% here in new york. but will the business mogul's popularity in his home state prove too overwhelming. joining me, hallie jackson, follows the cruz campaign, sandra tan, a political reporter, they both join me. >> hi. >> since we're in your hometown, first question, how intense is the campaign here? i can't tell. is it intense here in western new york or not? are you feeling it?

>> yeah, i am. i think people are excited about the fact that we finally have a primary that matters. i think that western new york has long felt neglected and i think the opportunity to actually see candidates face-to-face, to be courted by candidates actually does make a difference to us. >> halle, all over the country with cruz, i'm surprised that this is the first time you've been to buffalo with cruz. i expected him here a lot, if you would have asked me ten days ago, i would have accepted him to own western new york. >> he previewed that, he foreshadowed that, western new york, his campaign talked about western new york. but the campaign is turning now to sort of the next phase, seeing the polling, seeing how strong donald trump looks, he's not eroding as much as they expected to with, for example, women, he's above 50% about, their focused on indiana, may 3rd. looking at california june 7th. that's why he's spending time out there. >> they're missing a lot of states voting in april. have they given up on april states? >> i don't think so. i think you're seeing him focus

where he thinks he can make a difference when it comes to to picking up delegates on a first ballot and drilling down into the delegate strategy for a second ballot in cleveland, why he will be talk in wyoming and doing these things. >> you think the cruz campaign if they looked at 2014 republican primary results for governor, and the dominance of paladino in the general election, a general election that cuomo smoked him statewide but paladino owned new york. >> right. >> this is donald trump without the fame. >> they are like twins separated at birth. >> he's the new york campaign chair, in was a rally today, he is introducing trump at that. this is -- this makes, did if he asked you, you would have said don't bother, this is trump country. >> i was impressed, i was at the town hall earlier, and certainly ted cruz -- >> we have him on camera there, getting ready to introduce him.

>> obviously he has his supporters, folks feel like cruz is the true conservative, but overwhelmingly, i mean, this is donald trump's place, absolutely. >> all right. you both were at the town hall. we're not giving away the story here. people will see the full thing at 8:00. what stood out to you of a strength and weakness with ted cruz you've been following around. >> one of the strengths from cruz is how much more comfortable he has become on a campaign trail and settings like this one. he's used to doing these types of media interactions, a disciplined candidate and stays on message. i think for cruz that can be a weakness. the idea that he will return, he's -- he knows what his message is and knows what he wants to get out. discipline maybe could be a double-edged sword. the personhood issue, you played that sound bite, that nail ones of the top moments from the town hall. you talked to supporters, a woman in the audience, republican from buffalo, i said what sticks out to you? around halftime.

she said, that moment stood out to her and she didn't know if she liked it, that he wouldn't come down on one side or the other. >> he never answered the question. i understand why he didn't. he's afraid to alienate one art of his base but trying to open the door a little bit to moderates. >> and the came pan will point to wisconsin as a way they did that successfully. >> i think he tried hard to stick to his core values while using language that was more inclusive, suggested that he was willing to listen to others, might be more willing to compromise. i laughed when he talked about how he would compromise with martians if it meant that they were in favor of a smaller, less powerful federal government. >> the margins probably want more expansive government. >> yeah, yeah. >> we all think that, our new martian overlords. quickly, halle, so is the cruz

campaign nervous the messaging from trump, i'm the leading vote getter, i'm the leading delegate getter, you you can't deny me the nomination. >> i don't think that -- i think they say, the rules are the rules. the campaign believes they're able to keep a close one when it cops to delegate. you'll see 1000 or 1100 the lead is not so substantial, they believe, for donald trump that it would be a tough message to sell and they believe that they have the message that he is the core conservative, that is what they're hammering hard, everywhere and getting back up for people like marco rubio, not a full endorsement but cruz is the conservative and that resonates with republicans. >> not having to do with 150 delegates that marco rubio than necessarily not wanting to endorse cruz. hallie jackson, you have a candidate to cover. he's leapfrogged you. sandra tan, thanks.

coming to your home base. >> welcome to come back any time. >> the staff shakeup for donald trump's new national political director. joins me live in his first interview for trump. he's rick riley. the. war of words on the democratic side. supporters of both democratic candidates on expectations for tonight's one-on-one matchup on that side of the aisle. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press," an early booking exclusive to share with you. lie have interview with north carolina governor pat mccrory, in studio, to discuss the state's controversial bathroom bill and the backlash his state and he has faced in its wake this sunday on "meet the press." ♪ ♪ he has a sharp wit. a winning smile. and no chance of getting an athletic scholarship.

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i wasn't indoorly aware of it i was surrounded by beauty and history that a sense of possibility a great city instills in its residence. buffalo captured my imagination and remainses a part of me to

this day. >> we're here in buffalo, of course, it the hometown of none other than tim russert, not just a longtime moderator of "meet the press" but mentor to so many of us at msnbc, including myself. tim loved buffalo, boy, it's clear, buffalo still loves tim. a picture of him right up here on the wall over there at the anchor bar. it's the cover of buffalo magazine in 1999 calling tim buffalo's own washington insider and he was. buffalo was a big part of what made tim, tim. he helped make the football team a big part of "meet the press." >> i'll make you a deal. you clear for the buffalo bills and they win, i will not mention them on "meet the press" for one year. i promise. and most important, you make this guy, my dad, the happiest guy in the world. so for big russ, his buddies back in buffalo who helped make this country great, for the city of buffalo, for all of the underdogs in this country,

around the world, go, you buffalo bills, pull off the biggest upset in football history. we'll see you next week. if this sunday, it's "meet the press." (patrick 1) what's it like to be the boss of you? (patrick 2) pretty great. (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want-

without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. welcome back to "mtp daily." coming to you live buffalo, new york at anchor bar. donald trump's about to speak in suffolk county, new york. protesters are gathering outside the long island event and in midtown, manhattan, trump will join ted cruz and john kasich at a republican gala later tonight. pretty busy on both sides of the aisle. the front-runner learned florida prosecutors dropped their case against cory lewandowski. lewandowski charged with simple battery after a breitbart news reporter accused him of grabbing her at a campaign event. one more update to trump's staching shakeup. another big hire, scott walker's

former campaign manager is signed on with the businessman, he'll join me next. first, let's hear the latest activity surrounding trump's event in new york. go over, check in with cal perry. what do you hear out there? you're with a lot of the protesters, trump's inside rallying people. what can you tell me? >> reporter: exactly. we have a small but boisterous crowd. they've been chanting on and off for the past hour. the story here is that the police here in suffolk county have done a tremendous job of keeping these protesters, and i'll spin you around the other way, from interacting at all with any of the trump supporters, which are down at the other end of the road, what emerges from trump rallies is a pattern. some point they have to cut off people at the door, those are trump supporters, they get frustrated and they clash with the protesters. that's just not happening today. police well organized. they've got stand-off areas,

demilitarized zones keeping everybody separate, chuck. >> cal perry with the trump campaign, and the protesters that always seem to follow you'll side there in long island, thanks very much. donald trump's newest hire joins me, rick riley, served as scott walker's presidential campaign manager. new his first interview in his new job with me. welcome back to the show. >> thanks for having me. >> governor walker, very -- when he got out, he didn't just get out. he took big shots at trump and basically called for a lot of others to get out to unite against trump. you worked for him. what made you make the jump to trump and not listen to governor walker? >> look, i have the utmost admiration for governor walker and he did a great job delivering his home state for ted cruz. at the end of the day, you know, i remember watching from the walker headquarters the donald trump coming down that escalator and had front row seat during the race, at the end of the day,

after new hampshire, south carolina you can see momentum building across the country. donald trump has a movement going and as i liked at this and thought through it, and the campaign reach the out i thought it was a good opportunity. there's a lot of new voters coming into the mix and i can offer a lot to the campaign in terms of bridging the gap and working with the rnc once we become the eventual nominee, and i think a lot of tangibles to that. building a ground game and structure needed, nsure. >> brought up the escalator moment. i can't tell you, your campaign was the same as jeb bush's, marco rubio's, cruz. you guys were all dismissive of trump. when did you finally start to believe? >> it's a great question. i think, you know, with governor walker he got oust race in september. i think, you know, probably mid-december was, you know, there were multiple opportunities where everyone was saying this is going to happen, this going to happen and it

never did. i think it shows the populist movement that donald trump has been able to put his finger on. and, i would say before the iowa caucuses, you know, the iowa caucus, the great untold story is donald trump gets 45,000 votes the most in caucus history minus the fact that ted cruz received more that particular night there was a movement. and i would say, you know, mid-december, when everyone was saying he's going to be outorganized in iowa and things like that, i thought i think he has more than better chance, obviously he fell a little short. but new hampshire comes and south carolina, it was about mid-december there in many ways, your resume reads like the political establishment, right? you're political director at rnc, you helped bridge the divide between the romney campaign and national campaign four years ago. you became the campaign manager of the three anointed potential establishment front-runners that everybody thought. what do you think you can have

the establishment teach trump? what do you think you can have the trump phenomenon, what do you think the establishment can learn from him? >> that's a great question. i think, from the establishment learning from donald trump, it's about frustration. i sit here in washington, d.c., and recognize, and i've recognized for quite some time, that people are fed up with washington, d.c. nothing happens in the city. i think the voters, you know in 2010, it started with we fired nancy pelosi. i was with rnc at that point. do 12, governor romney fell short with barack obama. but in '14 we turned around and voters threw out harry reid. and i think what you're going to see in 2016 is the culmination of that where the republicans, you know, hold the house, senate, and sweep the white house. i think it's the fact that washington, d.c. has to realize that the voter have a say and they're speaking loudly. from -- >> but -- go ahead. >> the second part is, the rnc

is integral when it comes to the nominee. having a front row seat, being political director in 2012, working with the romney campaign and a lot of work needs to be done. rance priebus, a good friend has done a wonderful job. rebuilt -- we did a lot of work on the ground game in 2012, proud of what we did. they've completely overhauled the ground game over and that's a huge asset to the nominee. i'll able to work close with those guys and they're my friends i'm excited about that opportunity. does that help you work with your close friends when your candidate is out there accusing them just in the last 24 hours of shenanigans, stealing and all of this stuff? has anybody violated the rules? is there evidence anybody violated the rules or is it more of the trump campaign didn't read the manual that came with the box that said, here's how you run for president in the republican party? >> i think, you know, having just been debriefed today for the very first day, you know, i

was told there were some issues in colorado, missouri, places like that. but i think at the end of the day we're getting organized on the ground. there is more staff coming on board. and that's what's needed as this campaign grows. and -- >> is he going to cut back the rhetoric, the angry rhetoric at priebus. >> i think so. i think you saw, you know, even yesterday, he was on wolf blitzer, said, look, this is blown over. this is much to do about nothing. i think so. >> all right. rick wily, in your new job, national political director for the trump campaign. next, i'll talk to a former ambassador who is a big ted cruz supporter in western new york. keep it here on msnbc. special events on the presidential race. 7:00, town hall doubleheader, john kasich, chris matthews. ted cruz and mooiz. foal lowed by the rachel maddow

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welcome back to special et decision of "mtp daily" live in buffalo. thanks, guys. town hall with ted cruz airs later tonight right here on msnbc in a couple of hours. joined by one of new york. top republican fund-raisers, anthony dejoya, former ambassador to malta, now backing senator ted cruz. thanks for coming on. >> glad to be here. >> you made the move from rubio to cruz. >> yes. >> practical decision or something more? >> no. i was -- you know, as we talked earlier, impressed with marco, he was a friend, i enjoyed him, but he had left in the race. one of the reasons motivated me

was, as much as i thought that ted cruz was going to ab-i great candidate i was concerned about donald trump. and i felt that if we had him as a candidate or as a president, there would be serious issues that i was concerned with. >> what are you concerned about with president trump? >> i don't think he takes the office seriously. the office of the president is an important position, as you know. what the president says has real gravity. and his comments on nuclear proliferation, his comments on nato, among others, are consequential. having been in malta, a small country, but an important location, what the president says is important. and eastern european is nervous enough -- >> i hard this from both foreign service veterans and people like yourself who have served overseas as an ambassador, and i think sometimes the american voter doesn't understand that. sort of the impact that american

politics and presidency has on other countries. >> i do understand it. it's very, very concerning. that doesn't take away at all my admiration and respect for ted cruz because i have gotten to know him. i am -- i do respect him, he's very bright, he's got good ideas. >> why aren't there more of you that have rallied around cruz? it hasn't happened. the consolidation, he talks about it. it happened it would be a 10-point race. >> i'm speculating but, to some extent, the perception is that he's not that likable. i didn't find that to be the case. i thought yesterday, as we talked earlier, he was on a show from another network, did a very good job, showed a warmth with his wife and children, interacting with them. a very different guy. i think the interview you did today in the town hall showed an engaging guy, very, very smart, knowledgeable of the issues. i think like eventually people will get to realize what a good

person he is. >> we're getting to the point of no return here for the stop trump movement. he sweeps delegates here, his winning percentage of the remaining delegates he only needs half. it's a pretty easy task for him. >> but he hasn't gotten half of the delegates up to this point. we'll see. >> we'll be watching. are you going to be a delegate? >> i don't think so. >> not this time? you'll be in cleveland. >> i hope so. >> thanks for coming on. we just got new poll numbers on the democratic race in new york to share. hillary clinton has expanded her lead over bernie sanders in new york, according to a new wnbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll, clinton hitting 57%. sanders sits at 40%. 17-point lead for clinton is an increase from monday poll which had clinton ahead 55-41. that's margin of error stuff. but what it does tell you, there is something here. sanders may have hit a ceiling a bit here and may not be able to

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we are back here. dipping in, you'll see here, donald trump, just taking the stage in his event in long island. we're going to keep an eye on it. see if he -- see what his focus of conversation is today. yesterday it was unloading on the rnc and what he believes has been unfair battle for delegates, particularly in the states of louisiana and colorado. we'll see how much of that is part of his messaging today. welcome back. special edition of "mtp daily." live from the anchor bar here in buffalo, new york. bernie sanders campaign wanted the headlines to be about his record setting crowd in washington square park. hoping to bill momentum to close the gap on hillary clinton in new york. paul song, seen here, changed that with his own speech before sanders' arrival at last night's rally. talk a listen. >> i agree with secretary clinton that medicare for all

will never happen, if we have the president who never aspires for something greater than status quo. medicare for all will never happen if we continue to elect corporate democratic whores who are beholden to big pharma and the private insurance industry instead of us. >> well, song says he denies that he was referring to clinton personally and later apologized for the remark on twitter saying he was simply referring to members of the congress. dr. song's xent wcomment wasins. he didn't talk about it today but his wife jane did with andrea mitchell. >> it's not something we expected. as i said, he was speaker at one

event and one of many speakers. unfortunately we weren't there to hear it. we would have spoken up immediately. >> we've seen this movie before. sanders supporter going off message, actor susan sarandon, rosario dawson. the campaign manager responded about all on msnbc. >> i don't think think democrat or progressive should be calling anyone these names and words and that's why i'm glad senator sanders decided to disavow these comments. >> here with me now, buffalo may somewhere hillary clinton supporter, byron brown. thanks for letting us in your city. >> my pleasure to be with you. >> "meet the press" is always allowed to show up somewhere in buffalo, i hope. if not, i'm out. >> you have a warm place in buffalo. >> if i'm ever unwelcomed, i'm out. talk about supporting hillary clinton. why did you pick hillary clinton

over bernie sanders. >> an easy decision. we know her. she was our united states senator for eight years, spent a lot of time here in buffalo, worked closely with many people in the community. worked with us on the buffalo niagara medical campus, almost $800 million is under construction, 12,000 people work, worked with us on our waterfront development last couple of years. over $300 million of development, hundreds of people working. work to bring art space, a training facility for artists for young people for people trying to get back into the workplace to buffalo. so we know her well. she's been very good for this community. >> she's got a commanding lead in the polls, up 17, 57-40. there's a growing progressive movement that seems unsatisfied with the leadership. governor cuomo saw it 2014, a primary challenger that barely

spent money and got a big chunk, over 40% of the vote. so what is going on inside the democratic party? is there a split developing, a governing sort of establishment wing and this progressive wing that seems less satisfied by the day? >> well, you know, people want to see change. they want to see progress. they want to see opportunity for all people. and i think the democratic party is listening to that. i think certainly hillary clinton is someone that has always listened to that. when she was the senator here in new york, she listened to people. she fielded thousan of calls from people. >> when you see large rallies that saners gets are you going, i better take stock in this, be careful. >> i like to think i'm part of the progressive wing of the party. >> i think hillary clinton would say the same thing. >> i think she would say the same thing. i think she is part of the

progressive wing of the party. i think what you're seeing is a phenomenon where she is a known quantity. she's been vetted. she has been active and a known quantity for a long time. really outside of vermont, senator sanders is not a known quantity. and he is discussion -- discussing a lot of things that are attractive. things that are attractive to many people. making college more affordable, very attractive. i think hillary clinton has the more workable, practical plan to get it done. >> tick off your democratic party hat here a minute. you're mayor. what do you need from the governor these days, what do you need from washington, that albany and washington aren't providing you enough of. >> we need focus and resources to continue to grow the community, continue to grow the economy, grow jobs, train people for the jobs available. >> resources means tax money. where does the tax money come

from? >> from having a sound plan, plans that are workable, plans that work. here in the city of buffalo, we have been able to grow because we have collaborated, worked together, communicated, since 2012, over $5.5 billion of development in the community over the next two years, more than 12,000 new jobs -- >> working with the business community a lot? >> i'm working with the business community, working with progressive community, working with my colleagues in government. >> some in the progressive wing don't like it when they see public/private partnerships. >> i tell them we all have to work together, that collaboration is now we strengthen our communities, how we move our communities forward and we are seeing results of that here in the city of buff le. >> mayor brown, i'll leave it there. hillary clinton support, thanks for coming on. after the very short break, i'll talk with the sanders supporter, black lives matter activist, about the senator's push for support here in western new york. don't move.

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>> why did you pick sanders? sanders over clinton? >> well, i picked sanders over clinton because he was speaking our language. he seemed to mimic a lot of things we would discuss as a group together. as a matter of fact, probably when i first heard sanders speak, i had my head down and i heard someone speaking on television and he said something and i looked up and said, who is that? how did he know? how did he know what i was thinking. >> it's interesting, he had some run-ins with black lives matter activists and that weren't so good at the beginning. >> yes. >> what did he miss? and that didn't concern you? >> well, not really. >> why. >> the reason it didn't concern me was his response to that clash with black lives matter. and i think he handled it with poise. i think he handled it like a leader. >> if we look back, if he doesn't get this nomination, people will say it's because he didn't make enough inroads in the african-american community. what more could he be doing?

what advice would you give the campaign that they're not doing enough of? do you feel like they are and clinton has too much history? >> i don't feel like the campaign isn't doing it's job as far as reaching those demographics. the issues are that i see, are the actual coverage, is that sanders campaign is not receiving coverage equitable to the clinton campaign, though we have more supporters that actually donated money, individual supporters than the clinton campaign. >> you think the campaign is doing enoughen it's coverage hasn't saturated enough. >> coverage hasn't saturated enough, and we have an issue with branding. we know the name clinton, so we're familiar with it, we may be comfort with it. the black community and latino community doesn't know enough about sanders. if they knew more about sanders i knew we wouldn't be having the situation, we would be having

these numbers opposite. >> what got you into the black lives matter movement? >> what it stood for. it stood for looking into our justice system and addressing n inequities and injustices that usually affect minority communities. >> it's been interesting, and i think it's the most -- one of the most impressive social media movements, sort of i think we'll look back and say it's the first successful political movement that developed on social media, when we look back sort of the history of black lives matter movement. what's also interesting, it's more women in leadership roles like yourself than men. i've heard, i remember interviewing one of the original founders of the black lives matter movement. saying if there were men, if all of you leaders had been men, they'd all individually be famous, do you believe that? >> there's some truth to that. but what they need to look at is that we're a group of progressive women, that we are

educated, intelligent, understand and know the issues, we know what works for our community, we know what doesn't work, we know who's been working and who needs to do more work. >> do you look at it so far as a success and what's the next measurement of success for the black lives matter movement? >> the next measurement for success is to reach across really that aisle to maybe younger republicans and younger conservatives. >> that it crosses party lines? it's not something that's a f phenomenon inside the democratic party. >> exactly. i don't think it's a phenomenon within the democratic party. i think it's a phenomenon that is transforming our nation, how we communicate. i think, after this primary season, you will see more reaching across the aisle, you will see, you know, more progressive democrats, and you know reform republicans, maybe working together to see what is best for both of us. i hear them also. >> interesting. very interesting.

thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me. >> up next, in our all buffalo edition, we got the ws coming up. stay tuned. we'll be right back. ♪coming soon from progressive, it's "savin' u," the new hit single from the dizzcounts. ♪ cash money ♪ the biggest discount and understand... ♪ the dizzcounts. safe driver, paperless, paid-in-full, multi-car and joey fatone. ♪ savin' you five hundred ♪ i'm savin' you five hundred we have auto-tune, right? oh, yeah. that's a hit! all: yeah! with advil, you'll ask

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♪ ♪ for your retirement, you want to celebrate the little things, because they're big to you. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade®. it's an all buffalo edition of the ws. here we go. let's start with the who. grover cleveland, mayor for 11 months in 1882 before becoming governor and then president. how about that. the only president to win the white house loss and then win again four years later. what, the university at buffalo, site of the town hall with ted cruz. it was founded by the 13th president of the united states.

millard fillmore. now to the where. we're at anchor bar. birthplace of now the famous buffalo chicken wings. but the overflow crowd from the town hall went to another local mainst mainstay. charlie the butcher, to meet with cruz this afternoon. now to the when. 1965, the year that buffalo bill's quarterback was the mvp for both the regular season and the championship game of the old afl. he would later serve two decades in the u.s. house, then as hud secretary, then as the 1996 republican vp candidate. where did he represent congress, right here in western new york. now to the why. football, why do you ask. because buffalo bills, soft spot for buffalo, jim kelly came out of my university of miami, jersey, number 12, first football jersey i ever bought, i ever wore, i still love jim kelly to this day. keep it up, jim. more "mtp daily" right after this.

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lyin' ted cruz talked about new york values at the debate, and he talked about it with anger and really hatred. i mean, he was trying to make a point against me. boy, did that one hit him hard. that was not something -- because he is doing very well. right now, he is, i guess, number three in the polls in new york and many of the other states. and nobody even knows who number

two is. >> that was donald trump, just a few minutes ago, speaking at the suffolk county gop dinner, all focused on cruz. time for the lid. coast-to-coast here, out to l.a., in our newest nbc news political analyst, everything old is new again. mike murphy, the most recently running the pro jeb bush super pac, right to rise. mr. murphy, welcome back to the show in your analytic role. >> good to be back, chuck. >> let me start with a week ago. literally at this point in time, two days after the wisconsin primary, consolidation of the anti-trump movement, evidence, there it is. cruz defeats trump by double digits. we all thought, oh, boy, something is a foot. everything seems different now. is the anti-trump movement losing steam? >> well, it seems to be in new york. i mean, it's trump's home state, but frankly, i thought they oh could work upstate, western new york and hold him under 50, trim

the delegate lead a little bit. but if the polls are to be believed, trump will have a good tuesday. maryland, he has some vulnerabilities, and i'm watching indiana, alone there on the 3rd of may. that's just about a winner take all state. >> i hear you in indiana. >> that's a moment. >> mike, let me stop you before we get to indiana. a whole heck of a lot of states voting on april 26th. yes, the same vulnerabilities you're pointing out, maryland, pennsylvania, connecticut, we all thought could be here in western new york or other parts, maybe long island, what is the evidence that the stop trump movement will somehow get behind kasich in maryland or behind cruz in connecticut? >> two elements that work. the morning after new york, wake up call to stop trump not to coast on their laurels after wisconsin, and i think shift into drive a little bit. and two, we have to have some kind of rationale actor deal between cruz and kasich, where they start dividing up states.

it's crazy when they compete in the same states, because it only helps trump. >> it's interesting watching cruz. you can tell, he is trying to open up his tent. at the same time, struggling with it. i think the mitch mcconnell answer, to me, is sort of exemplifies the struggle. he doesn't want to lose his antiestablishment roots as he courts the establishment. >> yeah, i mean, he is playing to his base. that's a lot of the math for a multi ballot convention for cruz, because he is hoping that some of those christian conservative activists winning delegate elections on a seconds or third ballot will go to him. he is careful about alienating his base. on the other hand, he doesn't want to lose a general election. right now, he is a tough sell, almost as bad as trump. he is in a very tough position here, particularly for the next 60 days. >> very quickly, trump seems to have the better message about, hey, i got the most votes, most delegates, you're taking it away

from me. we know the rules are the rules, but boy, trying to say that, it isn't an easy sell. >> a good message to sell, and he'll put it to work, but the rules are the rules. for trump, it's simple. he better get to 1,200 delegates. if he gets close, if not, he is toast. that's why indiana, california out here, and new jersey which is winner take all will be the back breakers one way or the other. >> mike murphy, welcome back. >> good to see you. >> thank you, sir. we're done here, thank you buffalo. thank you anchor bar. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm mark halperin. i'm john helemann. with all due respect debating in brooklyn, we're looking toward to the talking points and