pleasure, an absolute honor. hopefully the first of many such conversations. i think we need another hour, what do you think? >> if chuck will let us. >> i don't think so. thank you for joining us. we really appreciate it. this was the road warriors. hope you have a great rest of the day and great weekend. "meet the press daily" is next with chuck todd. >> if it's friday, what a difference a week makes. after getting walloped in wisconsin and cut out in colorado, donald trump might be riding high again, at least on his home turf. he's got a new message, new staff. is this the new trump normal? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. >> happy friday and welcome to "mtp daily." we've made it to friday and no one is relishing the end of the week more than donald trump.

think about the past ten days. the campaign pushed past huge upheavals and growing pains. think about where they were on the wednesday after the wisconsin primary and where they are today. it's actually a remarkable change with newly hired political veterans, rick wiley and paul manafort onboard. this almost feels like a different campaign. are they actually righting the ship? they appear to be, they're taking more control of the candidate. they've limited his exposure. they're keeping his speeches shorter. they're getting him to stay on the same message for more than one day at a time and they've got him on a script. and now that script includes attacking what they have decided to call a rigged delegate system. at this hour, there are actually pro-trump protesters gathering at colorado state capital, at the building itself. they say the delegate selection process doesn't represent them. so let's look back at the last ten days and what led to what appears to be, at least for now, a changed trump. it seems that in wisconsin, the

stop-trump effort finally found their footing. they poured $2 million into a state where donald trump already faced unpopularity with that state's conservatives. ted cruz won by a 13-point margin. he netted 30 delegates over trump out of it. trump's campaign immediately lashed out. they called cruz a, quote, trojan horse, being used by party bosses, to, quote, steel the nomination. four days later, cruz's campaign outmaneuvered a wholly disorganized trump team at colorado state convention. cruz's organizational sproirt helped him run the table in colorado, sweeping the state's 34 pledged delegates. trump's near-death experience sparked a huge turnaround. the campaign brought on a new senior adviser and a veteran delegate chaser in paul manafort. and when he joined me on "meet the press," he had tough words for cruz's tactics in colorado. >> what is fair game to win a delegate? is threatening a fair game? is threats a fair game. >> it's not my style, not donald trump's style. but it is ted cruz's style. and that's going to wear thin

very fast. >> you think he's threatening delegates? well, he's threatening -- you go to these county conventions and you see the tactic, the gestapo tactics and scorched earth -- >> gestapo tactics? that's a strong word. >> well, you look at -- we're going fob filing several protests, because the reality is, they're not playing by the rules. >> by monday, republicans were focused on new york, where trump is dominating in the polls. and we've got brand-new numbers just out showing trump now at 54% of the state's likely republican primary voters. that's unchanged, by the way, from the same poll on monday. but what has changed in this is kasich's position. kasich is now solidly in second place with 23%. and as trump was waging a full-scale war of words with the rnc this week over delegates, monday's poll shows that 64% of republicans in new york says the party should nominate trump as long as he has the most delegates. even if it's not enough to win the nomination on the first ballot. now, free bust has been defending the rules and he did it again this morning on the "today" show.

>> quite frankly, the complaining that goes on is something that i think probably distracts from what we really need to do, which is to come together as republicans, over 60,000 people a month ago in colorado voted at their precinct level and then they went to the county level and went to the congressional district level. i think it's a little too late to complain after the fact that a particular state's process isn't something that you like. >> trump's other new hire this week, rick wiley joined me yesterday and sounded pretty confident that they can mend fences with a clearly irritated rnc. >> just been grieved today for the very first day. you know, i was told there were some issues in colorado, missouri, and places like that. so, but i think at the end of the day, we're getting organized on the ground. and tlisz more staff coming on board, and that's what's needed

as this campaign grows. and -- >> is he going to cut back the rhetoric, the angry rhetoric at priebus? >> i think so. i'll be able to work closely with those guys and they're a lot of my friends, so i'm excited about that opportunity. >> rick wiley said that yesterday. there was a "wall street journal" op-ed today, that seemed to continue the trump campaign's complaints about the delegate situation. but there's been the troubled staffing narrative that hung over trump's campaign in recent weeks also saw resolution. florida prosecutors dropped simple battery charges against campaign manager cory lewandowski. and trump acknowledged that lewandowski hadn't been, quote, quite as effective for the past few months, unquote. like we said, this new trump is staying on message at two speeches last night, and then again this afternoon, trump seemed to have actually prepared notes with him at the podium. and as i mentioned today, that message comes in the form of an op-ed as well in the "wall street journal." and he writes, quote, responsible leaders should be shocked by the idea that party officials can simply cancel elections in america if they

don't like what the voters may decide. my campaign strategy is to win with the voters. his campaign strategy is to win despite them. trump said he could easily make the switch to being very presidential. this week, we've certainly seen him change on a dime. but that's what a lot of republicans are afraid of. that everything could change yet again very quickly. i'm joined now by the former rnc chairman, who is also served has the secretary of veterans affairs. jim nicholson, along rl strategist and admaker brian todd of on messaging. and our own political editor here at nbc news, kerry dan. secretary nicholson, excuse me, i believe that's the one i should be referring to you as. let me start, look, you were chairman in the '90s, you tell me what you're seeing here. if you were having to arbitrate what's going on between the rnc and trump, where would you come down on? >> i think reince priebus is doing a great job.

he's emphasizing the importance of the rules. i mean, we're republicans, these rules in every state, every territory have been clear since last october. and they haven't changed a bit. so every candidate has known what the rules have been in every state. so, it's up to them to organize themselves to comport and take advantage of the rules of that particular jurisdiction. i don't have a candidate in this race anymore. i used to be for jeb bush and now i don't have a candidate. but the rules are important. and majority rule governs. that's history of america, for over 200 years. and that's all that's being asked for, is that whoever can go to cleveland with or can attain 1,237 of those delegates has a consensus of those delegates, over half, by one vote. and that's all they need. >> brad, you work for a company

that you've named on messaging. donald trump is on message. he's got a narrative. paul manafort said it and they have spent a week basically, they are sending the message that, hey, anything that denies us the nomination is shenanigans. >> he's decided not to become the outsider and become the politician. is that the easier message to sell, though. doesn't trump have the easier sell? >> i think they've resigned themselves to the fact it's first ballot or bust. otherwise you don't criticize the process that they will need to elect you subsequently. the reason the rules are there. chairman nicholson won chairmanship of the rnc, on a fourth or fifth ballot. he was third or fourth on the first ballot. the reason these rules exist and the reason you have a delegate system is to break a deadlock. if donald trump wins the delegates he needs from the voters, he will be the nominee. if he doesn't, the convention will be deadlocked and they'll have to do their job and pick the nominee that can win. >> so play the math ematiciamat. trump trump sweeps all 95 in new york. what's that do to the percentages?

>> he's going to go into the following races, assuming that he wins a big percentage in new york, he'll head into those april 26th races, and that's another place where he could really garner a lot of support, in places like maryland, connecticut, rhode island. but i think one thing to your point, brad, about the message going forward, for these voters, one of the common strains from focus groups from voters we talk to about donald trump is that they feel betrayed by these very rules, even the people that they voted for. they've said, look, i was told as a republican, go vote for house candidates or senate candidates. they say, i did all those things and blamed their inaction on congressional rules, on the filibuster, on veto-proof majorities. i think there's a lot of sympathy from some of these republican voters who are saying, i don't want to hear the rules blamed. i want my voice to be heard. >> chairman nicholson, secretary nicholson, i think the issue is that it goes to what carrie just brought up. donald trump and cruz, all the candidates have brought in a lot of first time republican primary voters. and they're sitting there going,

wait, what? what is this? i thoughted i voted this way and this delegate and it's not incumbent upon them to understand all the rules. it's incumbent upon the candidates. what do you tell that first-time voter who thinks, boy, this doesn't feel right? >> if you're going to be honest with them, you tell them that there's a set of rules that were followed or that were needed to follow and that's why your vote didn't carry the day because there were more people voting for somebody else. and that's how it happens. there's no mystery about this. nothing's new about this >> can the rnc do -- let me ask you this, can the rnc -- should there be a better explanation of the rules, a better way of selling them? look, they're arcane. it's not easy to sell the delegate selection process and to inform the general public. i don't think it was ever designed to be a system that you were trying to sell to the general public. you were only trying to sell it to the insiders. >> well, no, you're not. in colorado, for example, there

were 3,900 delegates and 3,900 alternates to that state convention. that is a real grassroots turnout of people and those that wanted to be elected walked across the stage and said their name and in some cases said for who they would vote. that's grassroots politics at its base essence. and it can be confusing, there's no question about that. but i think what's happening in the country today is that people are not accustomed to that. it's been since 1976 that we've even come close to having a contested convention. but history shows that we've had lots of them. abraham lincoln wouldn't have gotten elected. dwight eisenhower. there have been presidents that have been nominated on the 36th ballot, as one of your guests mentioned there, i became the chairman of the rnc after five ballots, six ballots. i was elected unanimously. but -- so it's not new, but it

isn't, it isn't current. and i think that's confusing a lot of people as well. >> but in fairness to sort of, i think trump's critique on this, brad, is the fact that we have reoriented the party nominating process to primaries. and the fact is, we used to have contested conventions when we didn't have that many state primaries and it was mostly skbrus a handful of -- the primaries were sort of beauty contests back in the day and that's why we had these. >> colorado's had their caucus system since the early 19 -- >> wait a minute. colorado's republican party totally screwed this up, okay? they couldn't agree on what to do with the system, so they canceled. they didn't even have a contested caucus. >> but nicholson both won and lost elections in colorado, in caucuses. the nominations typically happen in caucuses, before leading up to the primaries. >> it's sort of like a hybrid system. >> a caucus to qualify for the primary. >> let's go back to another step re. donald trump got 36% in new hampshire. his average after 31 contests is

36%. he is yet to grow. and if he doesn't get to 50 in new york, which it looks like he's on track to, but one would hope he could get 50 in his own state. i think the heat you're seeing from them is to avoid the light on the fact they're not growing their vote. and, you know, when i lose, when my favorite football team loses, i'm sure it's the official's fault. >> i always blame the refs. >> one interesting thing you're seeing donald trump doing is invoking bernie sanders of all things. he's saying, this is unfair for me and bernie sanders. granted, we all know because we've run all the numbers, we know hillary clinton winning by a huge margin in florida is going to get her more delegates than individual wins in idaho. and other states like that, but for those who are just hearing the headlines and not necessarily the delegate count, donald trump is making that argument and if you're a bernie sanders voter, you might be saying, i think he's got a point. >> i'll give you the last word here, secretary nicholson. how would you -- how would you be preparing for this convention if you thought you were dealing with a contested convention?

what's some advice you would give to chairman priebus? >> the advice i gave him, which is to really do what he's doing, which is to lay out what exactly what the rules are, how it will work in cleveland so nobody can cry foul, that they weren't informed. how the convention rules committee, which will convene a week before the convention starts in cleveland, and they will determine what it takes to put a name into nomination, things like that. the rule of the majority, the 1,237, that's inviolate. so that needs to be reinforced and repeated and repeated. and then how it will work if they get to subsequent ballots, what it takes to put people in nomination. many of the state delegates have different kinds of rules that bind them. some are bound on a first ballot. most are unbound after that. some are still bound so i think the party, the party's role is

to manage this and hope it will come out with a candidate that best represents the party philosophy and that will win the election. that's -- and then the party will be there to move in with the candidate and help them win. and i think the rnc is doing just what it ought to be doing. >> all right. secretary nicholson, i'm guessing, though, you're glad you're not chairman over there on this cycle. secretary nicholson, good to catch up with you. thanks for coming on. brad, as always. carrie, you've got to go back to work. you don't get to go home on friday. coming up, the backlash over north carolina's so-called bathroom law. it continues. i'll talk with a state rep who says he now regrets voting for the law. by the way, he happens to be a democrat. and later, conservative columnist ed morrissey breaks down the strategy republicans need to win the white house and whether donald trump's campaign is up to the task. stay tuned.

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if it's sunday, it's "meet

the press," and now it's also the new sunday today, with my pal, willie geist. willie kicks off his new show this sunday, with a behind the scenes look at the hit broadway musical, "hamilton," tune in at 8:00 a.m. on your local nbc channel. and after you catch willie's new show, i'll have the chairs of both parties, democratic and republican national committees. they're both preparing for contested conventions. will they both have to deal with contested conventions? plus, north carolina governor, pat mccrory. we'll be right back.

discover card. i missed a payment. aw, shoot. shoot! this is bad. no! we're good! this is your first time missing a payment. and you've got the discover it card, so we won't hike up your apr for paying late. that's great! it is great! (both simultaneously) thank you. at discover, we treat you like you'd eat you. get the it card with latepaymen. today, the nba addressed speculation about moving the 2017 all-star game out of north carolina because of the state's controversial new so-called bathroom law. >> the current state of the law is problematic for the league. that's nothing new. we said it the day after the law was passed. but we're not making any announcements now.

i think the right way to work to the proper resolution here is for the league to remain engaged in the conversation rather setting ultimatums or announcing we're not going to play our all-star game. >> earlier this week, a bipartisan group of six u.s. senators sent a letter to commissioner adam silver asking to relocate next year's game that's currently set to take place in charlotte. but even with the nba taking pause. the social and business ramifications have already been fierce, dozens of corporations, performers, and even other state and city governments taking some strong stance against this bill. this sunday on "meet the press," i'll speak exclusively with governor pat mccrory in his first national interview since all this controversy hit. he's made some changes in response to the backlash, but has kept the basis of the law in tact. we've been covering this story on this show for weeks and we've seen the debate play out with voices from both sides standing firm. >> what we did was restore common sense, given that

charlotte had allowed the protections of safety for and privacy for women and girls in bathrooms and locker rooms to be subverted, we restored that and did it on a statewide basis. >> we have had a long history in this country ensuring that all public accommodations are open to people regardless of who they are and they serve everybody equally. there's no reason to revisit that issue. >> what's unique about hb-2 at the speed which it was made into the law. it went from the floor of the general assembly to the governor's desk in one day and passed a special session of the general assembly 82-26 with all democrats and all but one republican voting in favor. and it passed the senate 32-0 after senate democrats walked out en masse in protest. one of the democratic representatives who voted for the law is now pushing for a reversal. his name is state representative billy richardson and he wrote this in an op-ed on monday. quote, i have been haunted by

the fact that in one rushed action, i undermined a lifetime of fighting against those who would demonize a group of citizens to gain political advantage and to advance an unjest agenda. state representative richardson joins me now from raleigh. mr. richardson, state representative richardson, welcome, sir. >> thank you for having me. >> so i've read your op-ed, but take me to the floor of this general assembly. what happened? and how did it happen so fast? >> well, i could give you every excuse in the book, but the bottom line is, i just looked myself in the mirror after this happened and said, i've made a mistake, we as a state have made a mistake. it's going to hurt us economically and morally and we need to fix it. and that's what we need to do now. >> but did you not read the bill closely enough in your mind, or is it more of a, you didn't realize the ramifications of it?

>> the latter, but again, you're correct. we got the bill at 10:30 that day and what we were told, we were basically -- the bill has five sections and what we were led to believe was that we would be voting on section one. and there ended up being the section where we actually took away civil liberties from all citizens of this state and we took away access to the courts of this state for redress of those wrongs. and we took away local control for government, local governments. which, as you know, local government is where the rubber meets the road. and we just did it so hastily that no one had a real chance to digest it and fully debate it and understand it. >> did anybody bring up the fact, hey, can we slow down here? >> correct me if i'm wrong, i believe the city of charlotte took months to debate this ordinance they wrote and you

guys took minutes. >> that's correct, but have you ever tried to stop a battle ship and turn it around. >> is that the way you felt? is that the way a lot of people felt? >> that's correct. and i believe a lot of people on both sides of the aisle felt that way. it wasn't just the democrats that felt that way. a lot of the moderate republicans felt that way, as well. >> what's your sense of the governor. did he feel forced into signing the bill, or was he helping to push it behind the scenes. >> img the governor needs to go farther than he's gone. i hope he will. i really want to be part of the solution to this. but it has damaged our credibility in the nation so bad and hurt our credibility with businesses, we just can't afford to lose these jobs that we need to take pause, strike this bill down, reinstate access to our courts, reinstate anti-discrimination laws, and expand them to the lbgt

community and reinstate local governments, to give them the authority to do what they need to do to make their cities and counties grow. >> is there a bipartisan movement in the general assembly to do this? this was done in a special session, is there any appetite for another special session >> we're coming up into our short session in two weeks, and i would hope and pray as we as a deliberate live body would come together and work towards resolving this. it's just not a good thing to hurt people. if there is a problem, and we need to find out if there is a real problem. and you ask police chiefs, sheriffs the state investigation and law professors if there's a real problem. >> have you seen any evidence -- this did strike some. some critics say, this is a solution to a problem nobody knew existed. have you seen any evidence of a so-called problem of somehow bathrooms being used to make

people feel uncomfortable? >> and that was one of the things when i was looking at myself in the mirror, our police chief was on the radio and was asked that question and he said in 3 kpaf years as chief, he has never known it to be a problem. and, i don't know if it's a problem or not, but usually as a public body we hold public hearings and consult experts before we rush to action and i think we need to take a step back and do that. >> i don't know the specific rules that the minority party in your assembly has to introduce bills in short sessions, but could you introduce a bill, could you, and even though you're in the minority and get it considered on the floor or would it be an uphill battle for you to author a bill? >> just because it's an uphill

battle doesn't mean we shouldn't and i intend to do just that. i have legislation drafted that i will introduce in the short session, and i think will be eligible for the short session. and i hope that -- and i hope it up to republicans and democrats alike that want to fix this problem. and what my legislation, what my proposed bill would do would reestablish our courts as a means of redress is cheaper, is accessible, and it's affordable and it also expands our anti-discrimination laws to the lbgt community and to veterans skmefbs. because we have several bases in our state and it's the right thing to do. >> very quickly, as you know, i have the governor coming on "meet the press" on sunday. what do you want to hear from him on sunday? >> that he understands we're losing -- we're hemorrhaging jobs.

and that we have lost credibility in this nation and that in north carolina, y'all means everyone, and that we're a welcoming, open state and this ain't us. that's what i want him to hear and see. >> state representative billy richardson, a democrat from north carolina, thanks for coming on. appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> and as i mentioned earlier, north carolina governor pat mccrory joins me this sunday on "meet the press" exclusively to discuss the fallout and his attempted repair from hb-2. still ahead, could a small-scale campaign give republicans a big victory in november? conservative columnist ed morrissey explains why just -- why he believes just 2 million voters could decide this election. stay tuned. i'm terrible at golf.

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with the cnbc market wrap. >> thanks, chuck. we had the dow closing down nearly 29 points. the s&p falling by just over two. the nasdaq losing eight points. meanwhile, u.s. oil prices dropped nearly 3%, closing at $40.36 a barrel. this comes s ahead of a big meeting sunday. meanwhile, apple shares fell 2% after japanese financial news agency nikkei reported apple will extend iphone production cuts into the june quarter, because of slow iphone sales. that's it from cnbc, first in business, worldwide. and so my new packing robot will make jet warehouses

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xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. . welcome back. this november, the republican party will try to win its first presidential election in 12

years. following two consecutive victories by barack obama. democrats won the last two elections because they were able to dominate the swing states in '08 and '12, and obama even won north carolina in '08. look at george w. bush's last winning map in 2004. he was able to take all the swing states but wisconsin and new hampshire. note both states with incumbent republican governors in 2016, by the way. but how can republicans regain their strength in the swing states? it may come down to victories on a smaller scale. my next guest's new book is called "going red: the 2 million voters who will elect the next president and how conservatives can win them." it focuses on seven counties if those seven swing states that are crucial to a republican victory. so joining me now is a correspondent for hothair.com and author of this book "going red" is ed morrissey. >> coming from minnesota. >> coming in from minnesota, yes. >> you came here for the warm weather? >> i did here come here for the warm weather. it's somewhat warmer than it is back home

>> so you identify seven states. i want to focus on essentially the midwest, the big ten states here. >> yes. >> ultimately, for the republicans to win the white house in '16 or '20 because of demographics, it's the midwest or bust. that a fair assessment? >> i think so. part of what the book is about is about reaching out to underserved demographics when it comes to the republican party. about approaching african-american voters and in places like wake county, north carolina, distinguishing between the various different leent communities in the i-4 corridor, especially hillboro county, florida, because those communities haven't been approached effectively by republicans in a very long time on the presidential level. yet, you mentioned this, republicans win at the local and state level in those same areas. in most of these areas, republicans are doing actually pretty well. >> why do you not write that off

as a midterm effect. or maybe we should write that off as a midterm in effect. >> in part, there's a midterm effect, but in part that's because barack obama was able to change te electoral turnout model so effectively by going hyper local and engaging people in these communities and effectively understanding who these people were, what motivated them in their public life, and addressing those, contextualizing his message in each of these communities and that's something republicans simply do not do. >> and i'll use florida as an example. he addressed the caribbean vote, the haitian vote. that that campaign individually went after. it wasn't just, i'm going to look at the minority vote in south florida. it's a complicated vote. what colombians want to hear is different what cubans want to hear. this book, i got an early copy of it and it made a lot of sense nor a generic republican nominee how does your book with donald trump as the nominee?

>> it's a great question, chuck. the book is really written nominee neutral. this is strictly about the general election. so, i would like to say that any nominee can pick up this book, can pick up "going red" and say, this is a great way to go, this is what we need to do. and and i think you see different aspects of the skill sets and the strategies that are outlined in this book, in both the cruz and the trump campaign. trump is activating voters in certain ways that republicans, engaging emotionally more on a top-down level, but engaging in a way republican candidates haven't done very effectively over the last eight years. cruz has a superior ground organization and knows how to go into different communities. at least he's learning -- >> well, they have the analytics, but does he know how to go into the communities and talk to them? >> that's the question and the same question about trump. in order to win these states, you'll have to do the things that are in this book. you'll have to learn who these

people are in these communities and figure out a way to reach them and so even if you are doing this in 2020, you're still going to have to do the same thing. no matter who the nominee is, if you want to get out of that demographic box you were talking about. >> what's interesting here about what you're describing is, ken mehlman gave me this lecture in the fall of '03. okay, meaning, the bush re-elect. he was the campaign manager for the bush re-elect, and this was his -- they knew they were facing a demographic challenge. it's something they were concerned about as far back as '04. and they tried to address it very carefully in places like ohio where he got 14% of the african-american vote, where now they would die for 10% of the african-american vote in ohio. so isn't this just a, in some ways, hey, guys, just do what bush '04 did? >> in a certain way, it is. and i think we lost the threat of that in the republican party, that there was this idea that you could nationalize elections,

which i think is based on the idea that you hear an awful lot, is that we're a center right nation and all you have to do is remind the voters who the center right candidate is. and when you go into these communities and talk to these people, you find out, we're really not necessarily a center right nation. >> they don't think that way. >> they think pragmatically. how are you going to address the issues that really matter to me in my life and the only way to answer that is know what this issue is. >> is the fundamental problem, when you say nationalized, is the faumtal problem is almost that the republican party is too media narrative driven. i say this between national talk radio figures, and no offense to yourself, and national cable, it makes national republican candidates think, that's how they have to sound? >> i think we saw a lot of that in 2008 and 2012. and i think the presence of barack obama and the way he was able to master the media narrative, i think, certainly

pressured republicans into thinking that was the new game but barack obama was playing a much different game than that. >> he was playing -- he had a short game and a long game. >> he had a top-down strategy and an bottom-up strategy. republicans had a top-down strategy, but no bottom up strategy. when i went to go talk to paem for this book, i was talking to people who successfully ran for office in this area. people who were activists and worked on campaigns. the one thing they told me was this. no one ever came and talked to us about the people that we already know, our constituents. >> we've got to leave it there. it's a great book for political junkies, even if you're not a conservative wus conservative, you should be reading this book. >> congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> good stuff. the book is called "going red." take a look. up next in the ws, good news for last-minute tax preppers out there, especially if you live in massachusetts. stay tuned.

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after the death of their son, beau, last may, vice president biden announced in the fall that he would not seek the democratic nomination. dr. bill jiden told nbc given a all the negative campaign rhetoric, america could use a compromiser in chief, but for the vice president, 2016 just wasn't his year. we'll be right back.

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rules in the country. today, in the wake of the flint water crisis, the state of michigan announced it is looking to go beyond the minimum federal tests. we'll see how it works. now to the where, phil haslem vetoed a bill to make the bible the state's official book. he says the bill isn't constitutional, but more importantly he sold the veto by saying this, it trivializes the bible. now to the when. it's monday, the 18th. this year's tax filing deadline. are you breathing a sigh of relief all of a sudden. today, irs employees have the day off for emancipation day. it is a hollywood here in washington, d.c. home to the irs headquarters. by the way, maine and massachusetts celebrate patriot's day on april 18th. so guess what, for residents of those two states, your tax day is tuesday, the 19th, after the red sox win that morning game. now for the why. it's four days before the new york primary and neither democratic candidate will be at any events in the state tonight. bernie sanders, of course, spoke

earlier at a vatican conference on economic justice. here's a taste. >> when i received this invitation, i know it's hard to be away from the campaign trail for a day, but when i received this information, it was so moving to me, it was something i just simply could not refuse to attend. meantime, hillary clinton is jetting to california for a couple of fund-raisers that are going to be hosted by george and amal clooney. here's why all of this matters. campaign rallies are just a fraction of the political equation and we will just have to wait until tuesday to see how these travel calculations, ie, skipping out on new york for a day or two add up for both candidates. more "mtp daily" right after this. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee. yeah, we're strong when it comes to tires. right now during the big tire event,

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time for the lid. let's bring in the friday night round table. political analyst, founder of the fix, molly, for the atlantic, and the "wall street journal" and of course is our president. >> that's right. >> by association. >> madam president. >> a card carrying member until she kicks me out. >> none of you are showing enough respect. >> respect the office. not necessarily the officer. >> that's fair. >> donald trump, nine days ago, we were all convinced, donald trump was in big trouble after wisconsin. nine days later, donald trump proved that he can pivot. >> i actually don't think anything is happening in this race. i think it's in a state of total

stacis. so we've come up with these narratives like to make it seem more exciting than it is. it's basically stalemated. he has taken a different tone this week. we can detect some changes. but like is it changing anything about the dynamic of the race. i'll believe it when i see that. >> i woke up with the -- wash, rinse repeat mode here. >> it feels that way. it feels like we're be in that whole dynamic until the convention. >> plus, the reality, everyone knows the math is we're sort of in a -- we're not sort of. we're in a holding pattern until june 7th, because trump either wins or loses it in california. yes, indiana matters, new jersey matters. i was stunned by the fact that there wasn't ten different trump

stories about things he said is news worthy in and of itself because it does speak to the fact that he is a little bit more disciplined. i'm hesitant to say he is more disciplin disciplined, because it could -- he has been more disciplined in this eight day chunk than any time we've seen him. >> molly, when you think about how badly the manafort/li manafort/lewandowski marriage could have gone, it tells you something about them both, but something about trump. >> it sells you something about trump. this is a man who has been a manager all his life and he, i think his style is barely controlled chaos. i mean, i think from the apprentice, his real estate company to here. like, you see this dynamic of sort of pitting employees against one another, but always keeping the lid on it. >> right. >> so you don't have people leaving in a puff and writing

tell alls. it eventually gets contained. right now, it looks stable. >> one of the reasons it's contained, he usually keeps a small circle. as the team continues to expand, how that sits. last night, carol, i was sort of exhausted. >> it was a lot of anger. >> it was exhausting, because it was repetitive. new piece of information for new york voters, or at least a new debate we hadn't -- a new spork. we knew his position on israel and how he felt about the israeli government and his response to gaza. >> it's interesting, because some of the coverage today has been he is criticizing israel and he is, you know, sympathizing with the palestinians, and when you look at his policies, different, but this white house in particular, kind of does the same thing.

>> i was going to say rhetorically. >> not that different. >> that's what is amazing. rhetorically, actually, obama and sanders sound more similar. >> right, way more similar than clinton and obama sound. i mean, they are an increasin y increasingly, they're threatening to not veto things at the united nations. that's dramatically different. but still, it's just bad politics for a democratic primary. >> i give bernie sanders this credit. i felt like that was a candidate who knew its's now or never. he has to throw it all out there. this is it. if i don't pull the up set in new york, i'm not going to get the nomination. >> even if he did, he probably couldn't. >> but he could reset -- >> absolutely he can reset the narrative. but the problem is, that feeling of now or never, that's a feeling of desperation. that's what came across. what came across was someone who is looking at his last chance,

and is desperate to seize it. that's not the most attractive look for a candidate. >> it's likeboxing, right, you open yourself up. he did that a few times. she is very good as a count ter puncher. she is able. she wait, and literally takes the opposition research books and drop it is on your head about guns, health care. she has always been good at it. >> i was going to say go back to every single debate. she has had some debates where she wasn't as good as she could have been, but is she ever fallen on her face in a debate? >> what has surprised me about a debater, how relentless she is. there were a lot of moments where the narrative she was coasting, and she didn't coast in the debate. she kept taking it to him. so i think she is incapable of sort of rising above the fray and being sort of statesman like and not going after someone. >> i think it's -- i've always thought this was weird. i understand she is the front-runner, but i thought it

was odd that they were the ones, or at least we believed and the reporting suggested that the clintons were putting on sunday morning at 6:30 a.m., let's do it then. because she is -- how many times she is debated? 50 over the last -- i remember one moment, the constitution -- >> driver's license moment. >> literally one minute at the end of one debate that we've probably overblown in retrospect, but 48, she has either won or tied. >> yeah. >> i can't remember where one that was terrible. >> her strong suit, when sanders started to gain momentum, they wanted more debates. it's where she is strong. he didn't bring it last night in terms of coming up, the one moment where he was asked about her record or what legislation she had changed her view on in terms of wall street. he didn't have anything. it was like, you know there were various moments he could have had substance, and he didn't. >> madam president, time is up.

>> thank you, constituents. >> carol, molly, great friday. we'll be back monday with more "mtp daily." if it's sunday on "meet the pres press". "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm john. >> this is a no spin zone. >> no, no, no. good afternoon, tgi, not quite tax day yet. we're here at the driver's village in cicero, new york. just outside syracuse, where we interviewed ted cruz. we're going to show you that conversation a little later in the program. but first, bernie sanders hail mary. just days before the empire state primary, next tuesday, sanders took a red eye flight after he debated hillary clinton, and i went to rome, italy. where he delivered