taking time for us. bishop berna dell jefferson of flint, thank you. i want to pass along to everybody, please watch tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern, a special edition of rachel maddow about the charges of flint. she's been on the story since the very beginning. so i encourage you to watch it. that's going to do it for this hour, i'm thomas roberts. "mtp daily" starts now. if it's wednesday, it's new york. he made it there, and next week, he could make it everywhere. donald trump is looking harder and harder to stop, and the stop trump forces are looking lamer and lamer as they search for hope. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to the hump day edition

of "mtp daily." new york was big apple sweep for the two front-runners after a resounding pair of victories in last night's new york primary, donald trump and hillary clinton both have their eyes on wrapping up what have been epic primary battles. >> we don't have much of a race anymore, based on what i'm seeing on television. senator cruz is just about mathematically eliminated. >> the race for the democratic nomination is in the home stretch and victory is in sight. >> both front-runners are now entering more friendly northeastern territory. next week, there are hundreds of delegates in play, when connecticut, delaware, maryland, pennsylvania, and rhode island hold their primary contests. after last night's 16-point victory, clinton picked up the lion's share of new york's 291 delegates. she now needs to win just 29% of the remaining delegates to hit her magic number, and yes, that

includes super delegates. sanders have the virtually impossible task of winning 71%, a tall order. sanders will say, take away the super delegates, and his number is still pretty daunting, but it's not quite 71%. but sanders is still vowing to take this fight all the way to the convention. his campaign now has to decide if their goal is winning or pushing his ideas and message. then there's the circus on the republican side. last night trump was dominant, cleaning up all but a tiny sliver of the new york delegates in play. statewide, trump beat kasich by 35 points and kasich by 45 points. here's an important reality check. just about 870,000 republicans voted yesterday. it's a paltry sum for a state as big as new york. how many other states had larger

turnouts. wisconsin, a significantly smaller state than new york, totalled more than 1.1 million. ohio, also much smaller than new york's population. they turned out more than 2 million republicans. still, a win is a win and delegates are delegates. thanks to new york, trump has to win 57% of remaining delegates. it's doable, if he runs the table next tuesday in the five states we told you about. cruz is now all about mathematically eliminated. we're at 98% territory here, if we wins that much, he could get the nomination on the first ballot. so basically you're saying there's a chance. but still it brings us to the new drama that is unfolding on the right today. for the cruz campaign, a contested convention is now pretty much their only hope. it's an ironic twist for a campaign that just a few months ago, cruz was insisting that he could win a majority of delegates and avoid a floor fight. he called on kasich to drop out because a floor fight was

kasich's only path to the nomination. >> any candidate that doesn't have a path to winning, that's the time when you should suspend your campaign and at this point, kasich has been mathematically eliminated. he needs more than 100% of the delegates to be the nominee. >> turn about is fair play. so today kasich used that history to take a shot at cruz, saying, quote, now that cruz is mathematically eliminated, the only difference between him and kasich, is kasich can defeat clinton. here's cruz defending his past comments in an interview with my colleague hallie jackson. >> you all but called for john kasich to drop out when it became mathematically impossible for him to get the nomination, you're about at that point now. how do you square that? >> kasich has no path to the nomination. you cannot lose 31 states, win your home state and expect to be the nominee. >> cruz wasn't done. he then turned his sights on trump. here's more from that interview.

>> nobody's getting 1,237. donald knows that. we're headed to a contested convention. donald consistently has been a fringe and marginal candidate getting about a third of the vote. he cannot earn a majority across the country and the only way you become the republican nominee is to earn a majority. that's what i believe we're going to do in cleveland. >> a fringe and marginal candidate. folks, let's let all this sink in for a minute. the front-runners just won a huge delegate rich state in late april. they have big leads in their contests, and their rivals aren't foaming the runway for party unity. they're digging in their heels. on the republican side, what's even more remarkable, the stop trump movement appears to have stopped their own movement. i guess they're biding time. hallie jackson reports that multiple anti-trump strategists aren't even looking at the calendar until the may 3rd primary in indiana. because apparently indiana is worth more than we say it is.

can they really wait that long, especially if trump runs the table in the april 26th contests? joined now by christine todd whitman. firmly in the never trump camp, she's endorsed john kasich and indicated she'd probably vote for clinton if trump wins the gop nomination. thank you for joining me. >> good to be with you. and i think i'll probably write in, rather than vote for hillary. >> fair enough. what you're saying is you're not going to vote for donald trump? >> no, i will not, no. i will not vote for him. >> it was interesting today, there's a memo from john kasich's chief strategist, john weaver. he said this. the never trump movement missed opportunities to take delegates away from donald trump in more than half a dozen new york congressional districts last night by not engaging in any serious ways. i'm dumb founded by the quote because last i checked, they

could have. what has happened to the kasich campaign. why aren't they being never trump? >> well, they are. and they're working on the delegate portion of this, as well as doing the regular campaigning. but they don't have any money and they don't get any air and media from some of the mainstream medias. donald trump seems to suck all that up. so it makes it difficult when you have to manage your money and your time. but john kasich has been campaigning everywhere, and he did pick up three delegates, which is three more than ted cruz did. so this is about the delegate count, as you well know, and that's where they're putting their emphasis, they didn't think they were going to win in new york. >> i guess i've been confused by all this. because it seemed, you know, every week the kasich campaign says, next week, we're going to go to this state and do well. and i remember it was the new york congressional districts after wisconsin. before wisconsin, they thought wisconsin was going to be a good state. at some point the kasich campaign has to win delegates somewhere. they've won three total, i think, in the last month.

>> well, what they're doing, though, is working on those delegates who have been committed on the first ballot to get them to agree to be supportive of john kasich on the second ballot. the presumption that trump does not go into the convention with enough delegates to win. and we keep talking about this, anybody but donald trump. i'm not supporting john kasich just because i don't want to see donald trump because i think he'll do such damage to the party and the country. it is because i think that john kasich is the one who can actually make things happen, make the government work again. as you know, as you know, it's real easy to make promises and bold statements in a campaign. you got to look at the record and that's where i come down to kasich. >> i think you're getting to the nut of the problem, how do you galvanize people to vote no. you need to get them to vote for an alternative. >> absolutely. >> is that the mistake that cruz and kasich, that everybody's so focused on stopping trump, that

nobody's making their own case anymore? >> well, he is certainly making his case. john kasich has never been one of those who's been nasty, used inflammatory rhetoric. he's been about policy. he hasn't been part of this. he's been, look, i'm running because i want to see a better country. this country is not broken. people still are dying literally to get in here. not to blow the country up, but to take advantage of the fact that they can make lives better for themselves and their families here than anyplace on earth. so that's what he's building on. he's doing the positive. i think it's other people in the republican establishment that are more the stop donald trump. and just looking at it from that way. i agree with you, people need a reason to vote for somebody, not just against. >> you took over as governor just after the real problems that donald trump faced in atlantic city, but you had to tackle atlantic city issues for a good portion of your tenure as governor. describe for me trump's

relationship with atlantic city in your eyes and whether he was a positive force or a negative force. >> well, i think initially having him there was probably a positive force, but as you know, he's not much of a hands-on manager. most of this, he gives his name and leases his name to things. he did get very upset when i opened up a portion -- a larger portion of atlantic city because it allowed steve wynn to come in. it opened a roadway to another piece of property he owned. but he didn't like the fact that anybody else was going to be there. my feeling is, you need competition and you need as many people there as you can get. so he's not exactly a big fan of mine either. >> let me ask you this. is there anything that you saw in atlantic city that would say, you know what, maybe this will make him a decent president at x, or is it just the opposite? >> no, i think it's really more the opposite. again, i'm waiting for somebody to truly pull back the curtain. when you say you want somebody who is a businessman, because

you feel they can get things done. this man took four companies through bankruptcy to get his own money out, and short-changing the people he employed. he had to pay fines for bringing in illegal immigrants, and said he can't find anybody, americans, to work at mira lago. if you start parsing it down, the story behind his successes, there's not a whole lot there. and the language, the thing that has been really upsetting me, the language he's been using and the way he has been demonizing certain groups of people is just so bad for the country in the long run. >> former new jersey governor christine todd whitman, thank you for coming on. >> good to be with you, chuck. take care. >> we'll be watching, thank you. turning now to the drama, or perhaps receding drama on the democratic side. after last night big win in new york, clinton has the nomination within her grasp, but sanders is not yet backing down.

>> we look forward to winning a number of those states. we believe we have the momentum, and we believe we have a path toward victory. >> sanders campaign manager jeff weaver took it a step further last night. in an interesting at the board interview, with our own steve kornacki. >> clearly the polls are almost unanimous now that bernie sanders is a much more electable candidate in november. >> there are going to be calls from her campaign and influential delegates in this country for you the sanders campaign to make a decision to unite around her. you'll say you'll spend the weeks in the summer trying to flip super delegates to sanders before the convention? >> at this point, yes, absolutely. >> i'm joined now by clinton supporter howard wolfson, the spokesman for hillary clinton's 2008 campaign. he joins me now. welcome to the show, sir. >> good to be with you. >> let me start with trying to unify the party. what is your -- you're on the outside of this campaign.

you're not on the inside this cycle. what's your advice to the clinton campaign on getting the sanders -- first sanders himself on board and then getting his supporters on board? >> it's a good question. certainly you have to show him and his supporters the proper respect that they deserve. he has run an extraordinary campaign. his team has run an extraordinary campaign, and he clearly has energized millions of people to go to the polls, to give money, and to be engaged. so it's important not to alienate them. it's important not to insult them. it's important to do everything you can to bring them into the fold, and to make them feel welcome in the party and around the clinton candidacy. but there's also a responsibility here on the part of the sanders campaign. you know, as you showed at the top of the show, it would be extremely difficult and unlikely for him to be the nominee. makes perfect sense for him to continue his campaign. he certainly has every right to

go all the way to california. he will win some more states. he will raise lots of money. but at some point, the campaign decision-makers will probably have to sit down and say, do we really want to continue to scorch the earth here? or do we want to try to run a positive campaign on our record and our vision? >> take me back to may of 2008, when you were in the position -- when you were with a campaign that was in the position of the sanders campaign. when you had people that were supporting candidate obama saying, you know, it's about time to do. and really start winding down. what's it like in this moment? there's a lot of emotion here. >> a lot. >> it's human nature to be angry and upset, is it not? >> it is. and certainly the candidate and his top staff are in something of a bubble. bernie sanders is surrounded by people who love him. he goes to rallies where people shower him with affection. he's raising all kinds of money

and he's winning states. so you think, there's a possibility here. i should continue to -- >> do you remember having those feelings in may, as you were winning a couple of primaries. you had a pretty good may, the numbers were never on your side, but may was a good month. did you have this, maybe this isn't over yet feeling? >> you sort of have a head and heart divide. our heart said, there's some really chance here. and your head, when you go through the math, as you did at the top of the show, you recognize it's very unlikely. at that point, you have to sort of look yourself in the mirror, have a conversation within the campaign and say, how do we end this? how do we want the party to unify? what's the goal here? we made the decision at a certain point that it's unlikely senator clinton would be the nominee and we began to take the foot off the gas a little bit with regard to the negativity. doesn't mean you can't run a campaign, run on a vision. but at some point, you have to say, the goal here is to have a

democrat win in november, how do we accomplish that goal? >> you know, the sanders campaign has exposed some yellow flags, some say red flags in clinton's candidacy, particularly for the general election. and maybe some democrats think, well, it doesn't matter. trump's got so many more problems it masks any issues that clinton may have with the electorate. do you view that as the case? or do you think that clinton needs to address some of these issues of a majority of the country having an unfavorable view of her, for instance? >> well, you'd rather have the majority of the country have a favorable view. but the fact is that donald trump is a historically weak candidate in terms of his negatives, and i think it will be very, very difficult, despite whatever changes he's made in his campaign structure in the last week or so to tack towards the center and to begin reaching out to americans in the middle. i think he's headed to a pretty historic defeat, presuming he's the republican nominee.

>> considering that you have some ties to michael bloomberg, you're a former deputy mayor under mayor bloomberg. >> i call him my boss, in fact. >> safe to assume you wouldn't have endorsed her if you were having second thoughts? >> he went through a lengthy, considerable process. he looked at a lot of data. he's a data guy. he made the decision that given the likely nomination of secretary clinton and mr. trump that there was not really a path for him. he's not somebody who really looks back. i think he would have certainly preferred that the data say something differently at the front end. >> gotcha. >> but he's not second guessing himself. >> i like the honest moment there where you're basically saying, of course he wanted to find a way to run. just needed to find a way to win. >> we wouldn't have gone through the process if we were not interested in looking at this very seriously and he did. i think he was hoping for a different outcome in the data and it wasn't there.

>> howard wolfson, a man with many former titles i could add to this. thanks for coming on, sir. >> thank you. coming up, donald trump pushes for support in indiana. we'll explain why the hoosier state is the next battleground, as far as trump is concerned. and later, it's 4:20. so what better time to talk about the state of marijuana legalization in this country. a look at what's changed rapidly in some states, and the battle lines that are still being fought that the next president will have to deal with. stay tuned.

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as we said at the top of the show, stopping trump is getting increasingly difficult. and it's gonna be even tougher after next week's contest. to put it simply, trump wins in states with democratic governors. check it out in today's map. these are the 21 states that trump has won so far. of those wins, seven of them are in states with democratic

governors. don't forget, there are 18 democratic governors right now. trump has really only lost in one state with a democratic governor, minnesota, where rubio won. colorado also has a democratic governor, but as trump himself would be quick to note, the state wouldn't figure out whether to hold a primary or a caucus, so they held nothing, and ted cruz won the delegates at a state convention. next week, four of the five states have a democratic governor. it bodes well for trump. he could run the table next tuesday. and i'll tell you why this matters. he does well in states where the republican party hasn't done well. we'll be right back with more on trump's meeting today with a republican governor. ah, my poor mouth breather. allergies? stuffy nose? can't sleep? enough. take that. a breathe right nasal strip of course. imagine just put one on and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38%

more than allergy medicine alone. so you can breathe, and sleep. better than a catnap. shut your mouth and say goodnight, mouthbreathers. breathe right. (patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. >> i'm millions of votes ahead -- millions. millions of votes ahead of lying

ted cruz, right? i'm about 300 delegates ahead of lying ted. i call her crooked hillary. i can tell you, this is a crooked system. this is a bad, bad system. >> well, after one night's reprieve, where he referred to him as senator cruz, look who's back. that was donald trump. in indianapolis in the last hour, and yesterday he's back to using lying ted. no more senator cruz. and he's trying to make crooked hillary stick. all in contrast to the more civil tone trump struck last night. he's looking ahead to indiana because every other stop trump republican thinks indiana is going to be this be all-end all for them. unless they somehow gain 30 new congressional seats between now and may 3rd, i don't know how that works, but god love them. meeting today with indiana governor pence, trump knows the

forces against him want to stop him there, so he went right to indiana. while an endorsement from pence would send shock waves through the republican establishment, don't know if he'll do that. we'll see. but before being interrupted by a protester, trump praised pence at his indianapolis rally. you have a governor, governor pence, who is really fighting hard for you. get him out, go, get him out. >> there you go. joining me now, ron foreignier, author of a new book called "love that boy," what two presidents, eight road trips and my parents taught me. but we gotta do politics. that inspired your book in a good way. it's a reminder that the politicians are human beings and good ones at that. trump and the republican party, it seems as if he's making baby steps at at least trying to win

over some republicans. what he did with pence today, that isn't something candidate trump would have done three months ago. >> we saw what he did in wisconsin. >> trust walker. >> which i didn't understand at the time. see this all the time when politicians announce what they're going to do and then they don't do it. so that was really presidential. saying he hates the media, getting rid of protesters, same guy. >> past performance to me is indicative of future behavior. >> you are what you are. it's going to be hard for him to change. and it's going to be hard for him to run as a general election candidate being that bombastic, i think. >> what i'm trying to figure out is the rest of the republican party, you hear it all the time and so do i. it's amazing the fear that republicans who tell us they don't want trump, and they want to do whatever it takes to stop him, that they have the fear of speaking out publicly against him. look at mitch mcconnell, who felt like he had to walk back a

happy prediction of a second ballot at a convention. republican leaders are showing why they don't deserve to be leading a party. these are folks for months who said there's no way trump was going to win the nomination, he was a joke, it's not going to happen. he stole their party from them and now they don't have the guts to come forward. >> they're not fighting for it. >> right. he's going to take the party over, if he hasn't already. >> he's the one earning it, vote by vote. the never trump forces, i don't quite understand what they did the last two weeks. >> actually, i think it's too late. but if you're going to fight, oa ahead and fight. but this is something they should have been waging in june, july, august, september. >> of last year? >> yeah. >> they could have skipped new york. i've heard from some cruz supporters that they probably now regret spending any time in new york. >> right. but what does the republican party do when your backup plan

is ted cruz? >> that's been the problem, right? >> right. >> i'm sure you saw that with howard wolfson. i brought up the michael bloomberg thing. when we're dealing with two candidates as unpopular as the prumpative nominees are -- i won't say it yet, as hillary clinton and donald trump, the voters are screaming for another choice. and no one's, the system is not providing it for them. >> it's a big problem with the system. which is why bernie sanders is providing that to them. we got to be doing better than that. it cries out for another party or one of these parties being completely redone. >> as demoralized as you and i can be about our current political system, if it wasn't for you covering politics, what would your relationship be with your son today? >> that's interesting. i never thought of that. in a way, it might be closer, because i would have spent more

time with him and the family. politics took me away a lot. i've had a great career, a lot of traveling around. but without politics and the ability to be -- first of all, make enough of a living where i could have my son diagnosed with autism and get him the support that he needs, a lot of people don't have that ability, and to be able to take him on a series of road trips around the country and meet a couple presidents, that really has helped bring my family back together. >> it's interesting. this book came out of an essay you wrote for national journal that was unlike anything you'd written before. everybody knows ron fournier, hard-charging reporter, you're getting that phone call at 5:00, and like, what the hell's fournier got? it's bad news. >> i like to think that. >> this was really different. and i guess describe how bill clinton and george w. bush made you look at your son differently. >> actually made me look at them differently, but my son, bill clinton, for example, it was a wonderful meeting. he could not have been more gracious to tyler. and he was talking for 45

minutes to tyler about teddy roosevelt, comparing our times to t.r.'s times, and t.r.'s presidency, fascinating stuff. he's a brilliant man. >> and he knows the intimate details of every single former president. what little detail he accumulates over the year. >> but he's talking to someone only interested in his detail. so he's losing tyler. >> loses him. >> he doesn't. i do. he's fixated on the topic. that's what aspis do. so i wrote in my notebook, i write down, is b.c. an aspi. he's one of the most social animals i've ever known. the man literally felt a country's pain. if he can feel a country's pain, why am i so tied up about my son? i said, what did you think,

buddy? and the president was just in front of us, leading us to the clinton library. and he said, he likes to talk a lot about himself and his stuff. and that's how i would describe tyler. >> very interesting. the phrase, love that boy, that came from george w. bush. >> that came in 2003 when i was leaving the beat. tyler came in, he was only 5 years old, well before he was diagnosed. he was just acting out, a very quirky little boy. as parents are when their kids are acting out. >> oh, my god, i'm in the oval office. >> exactly. president bush being very, as you know, intuitive inside a room, i think he could sense my anxiety and on the way out, he grabs me by the hand, looks me in the eye and says, "love that boy." at the time, i'm thinking, that's a nice gesture, telling me to love my boy, despite his idiosyncrasies.

you have to love your children, because of what makes them different. what makes them different is what makes them special. >> ron fournier, a guy i've known a long time. you don't wear your heart on your sleeve, but you did in this book. it's fantastic. >> thank you very much. >> go get that book. still ahead, new developments in the flint water crisis. several city officials are facing criminal charges. we'll have the details of that next.

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american express shares are moving higher after hours, the company's revenue and earnings beat estimates. a rally in crude oil today. oil surging more than 3%, to close at $42.63 a barrel, its highest close of the year so far. and some bullish news on the housing market. existing home sales jumped stronger than expected 5.1% last month. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. oil surging more than 3%, to if youthen you'll know howouth, uncomfortable it can be. but did you know that the lack of saliva

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today under the federal control substance act marijuana is listed as a schedule 1 drug. right alongside heroin. that is why i believe we must

take marijuana out of the federal controlled substance act. >> welcome back. today just might be the 20th of april for some. but the date 4/20 has become an unofficial recognition of sorts for marijuana users. marijuana is legal in four states, in the district of colombia. for medical use only it's permissible in another 20 states. on sunday, governor tom wolf signed a law to put pennsylvania on the list of states for medical marijuana. competition has ramped up between neighboring states, washington and oregon. today thousands will gather in san francisco's golden gate park to mark 4/20. the state will vote to make it legal recreationally. it's been legal for medical purposes for quite some time.

but sanders points out, it's still illegal at the federal level. it's tricky to find investors for the new businesses that are growing for the laws that states are passing. alan st. pierre is the national director of the organization for the reform of marijuana laws. welcome back to the show. >> happy 4/20. >> happy 4/20 to you. let's talk about the specifics here, has to do with the scheduling of marijuana has a hard narcotic, ala heroin as bernie sanders just said. all of the candidates seem to have the same position, are you confident on that? >> all presidential wannabes at a minimum -- >> i think chris christie was the only one that was against it. >> he was the only one against it. >> what does it take to get it rescheduled? is it an act of congress, or can president obama do it as an

executive order? >> ideally, it should be by congress, because they're the ones who created this whole conundrum if you will. but the executive branch has the ability to reschedule, downschedule marijuana. there's petitions from governors and senators that are asking them to do this, and pretty clearly the pressure from the states are coming. >> so if it's lower on the class of drugs, what does that mean? >> this has nothing to do with -- >> the criminal code. >> exactly. this has to do with research and the ability to use it for pharmaceutical purposes, which would be great. it doesn't affect the legalization argument. >> but having the ability to research does affect the legalization argument in that you got to decide whether it's worth legalizing it. you know, what are the benefits of it? >> the last 25 years, about 75% of the public has supported medical access, and just in the last five years, according to gallup, about 55% support

legalization. >> who's doing good research right now? >> i assume it's universities in colorado and washington. >> the irony is, someone like myself, goes and buys marijuana and some of my tax now goes to those universities to pay for research, like the colorado cannibis genome project to chart the genetics of cannibis. >> how many states will legalize in november this year? >> five will have it on the ballot, but most importantly, california must. >> what are the other four? >> new mexico, arizona, maine, and massachusetts, for legalization. ohio, michigan, and florida for medical only. >> all right. alan st. pierre, we shall see, but the numbers have shifted on this as fast as any of our social stuff, same with same-sex marriage. >> indeed. >> we'll see what happens a year from now on 4/20.

good to see you. up next, a treasury department announcement that will mean big changes on what's in your wallet. stay tuned.

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last year, the treasury department set the goal of putting a woman on u.s. currency. a short while ago, jack lieu spoke about the decision to switch from changing the 10 to changing the 20. >> harriet tubman, who really represents what a person can do to change this country, by force of their own actions and determination and dedication. >> pretty exciting. now to the what. jackson will move to an image on the flip side of the bill. so even though his hatred of federal reserve, he still gets to hang around. now to the when, 2020, the scheduled release date for the tubman 20s. and it coincides with the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage. now to the where, in your wallet. martin luther king will be included in a new image on the 5. plus, there will be women's suffrage leaders on the back of the 10, though hamilton sticks. now to the why, the treasury department's original plan was to put tubman on the 10.

why did that change? perhaps we can sing about it, or perhaps former fed chief ben bernanke scoffed at the idea, or because of the lobbying from fans of a hit broadway musical. here's why it matters. with tubman on the 20, the u.s. has a woman of color on paper money. combine that with the government saving hamilton after an outcry, so maybe public opinion really doesn't count, sometimes. more "mtp daily" right after this.

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joining me tonight's round table, rebecca burg and charlie cook. charlie, you've been skeptic on trump for a long time. >> uh-huh. >> it's hard to be a skeptic looking at the delegate math now. still a skeptic? >> i've not quite thrown in the towel but my arm is kind of cocked. it's harder and harder and

harder to -- but i'm not quite there yet. >> what you may have overestimated was the power of the stop trump movement. i saw no evidence of it. i saw katy packer say we with respect ever going to spend any money in new york. why aren't you in maryland last week? why aren't you in connecticut last week? >> the movement seem to be very effective in wisconsin. kentucky numbers were really low. everyone established around cruz as the alternative kasich did pretty welcome paired to cruz. cruz was even further down. that's a problem for cruz next week. you don't want to come in third. you have to keep the delegates between them. >> rebecca, let me read you the lead of this john kasich fund-raiser tonight. make no mistake, new york was a big step forward for our

campaign. trump was always going to win his home state, we not only walked away with delegates, three, cruz got zero. we got 25%. is 25% a strong second place? >> maybe when you're john kasich. when there's not a lot of good news you have to take what you can get and run with it. no, it's not a strong second place finish. frankly, i think, most people would agree that trump over performed. a lot of models had him around 80 delegates. he ended up sweeping with a few going for one. he doesn't have a lot of good news now. indiana will be really interesting. >> okay, indiana. i hear you. i keep hearing this indiana as if it's sort of like just, the alamo here. it may be an alamo type story. indiana still only worth 57 delegates. it's not this magic state.

>> taiwan and next year we'll be in beijing. the thing is what i did anticipate was the cruz people, they're ability to pick trump's pocket and all the back -- >> they have done that. >> what i didn't see happening was adults taking over the trump campaign and a real campaign being imposed on it. that's the part that is making me really, really nervous. >> i guess what i don't understand is john kasich. john weaver, they put out another e-mail alert lecturing the never trump movement. they missed an opportunity. >> chuck i can't explain john kasich strategy. i don't think he has one. >> why didn't they target the soft congressional districts. where is their calvery.

>> he camped out in michigan and it doesn't work. he's not going to make that much of a difference. i guess tuesday he might do a little better in maryland. he's in rhode island and connecticut. i don't see him taking a lot of delegates. i don't think his strategy makes any sense to me. i do think cruz looking indiana, washington, oregon, we're going to get out of the northeast. i do think cruz has better chances in northeast. he's done for. he has some chances to do better. >> the problem, though, is that everybody assumes that all the may states are going to ignore what happened in late april. ted cruz getting mathematically eliminated has a psychological effect on voters, i think. >> it does. momentum matters in a race like this. you talk about states like maryland. ted cruz is doing just as well

as john kasich in maryland. he could be the one with a bit of momentum. momentum will matter more in this case moving into indiana. here is a state that borders ohio where kasich has a well of organic support and can do well in some of these congressional districts. it's not a winner take all state. if you want people to be coalescing around cruz or kasich, it's not going to be an obvious choice. >> i'm sure you cannot find in republicans in washington who are enthusiastic about the idea of trump as the nominee. what i don't get is why mitch mcconnell felt he had to walk back the idea that he was excited about a second ballot. for a bunch of people that don't want him, they're afraid of him. >> i think the -- i was talk ugh to a very senior republican

house member the other day who would rather have trump than cruz and it was the level of personal enmouse. >> on cruz? >> yes. >> for mccon nnel the party is taking away from voters. >> why aren't they enthusiastic about kasich? rally around kasich. cruz doesn't have to be the other alternative. >> john kasich will get you a cup of coffee at starbucks. the only possible way for john kasich to get the nomination would be on ballot like four, five, six. >> i would argue that's not even possible at this stage. i wrote today that he's not even hustling for these delegates. he's not -- >> what are they doing? i don't understand this. what are they doing?

if they're not targeting delegates. >> john kasich is eating a bunch of food in new york. his advisors going on television. >> is there much more of kasich campaign than a trump campaign? in terms of mechanics. >> one seems win primaries. i'll leave it there. we're back with more "mtp daily" tomorrow. "with all due respect" to andrew jackson, sayanora. happy