good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington where the big news in the republican race is the new john kasich, ted cruz alliance to deny trump the nomination but questions whether it can last. in pack to pack strepress relea it was said the goal is to have an open convention according to row, our campaign will focus time and resources in indiana and in turn, clear the path for governor kasich to compete in oregon and new mexico. well, a few minutes later weaver wrote we're comfortable with our delegate position in indiana already and given the dynamics, we'll shift resources west and give cruz, the cruz campaign a clear path in inldiana. cruz insisted he wasn't telling supporter to vote for cruz, only that he would not campaign in indiana. so the voters have to figure this out. trump labeled the agreement collusion and said it was a

horrible act of desperation. >> did you see the news today where they ban together and collude? it's collusion. >> boo! >> if you collude in business, if you collude in business or if you collude in the stock market, they put you in jail but in politics, because it's a rigged system, because it's a corrupt enterprise, in politics you're allowed to collude. so they colluded and actually i was happy because it shows how weak they are. it shows how pathetic they are. >> well, we're waiting right now for a live campaign event from both cruise and trump we expect any minute now but now a quick personal note. tomorrow i will be off for my usual role anchoring election night coverage with brian and rachel. my wife kathleen is a candidate for u.s. congress and tomorrow is the primary election so

naturally i'll be with her and our family on our big night. for today's big stories, the alliance of kasich and cruz. ted cruz was asked this morning about the deal with kasich and said it made sense to both campaigns. let's watch the senator. >> we had conversations and both campaigns agreed to focus on energies, we're focussing energy on the state of indiana and governor kasich is focussing energies elsewhere. i think that is a decision, an allocation of resources that makes a lot of sense and devoted to the principle of beating hillary clinton in november and turning this country around. >> john kasich meanwhile insists he wasn't telling supporters not to vote for him. let's watch. >> my team met with the people and said it's fair. i don't see this as any big deal other than the fact that i'm not doing to spend resources at indiana. he's not going to spend them in other places.

so what. what's the big deal? >> i've never told them not to vote for me. they ought to vote for me. i'm not over the campaign and spending resources. we have limited resources. >> well, that's honest. we have limited resources, running out of money. charlie, advisor to john kasich right here and rick's national political director, an honor to have you guys on. the blues brothers are back, charlie. you guys are running the show. let me ask you about kasich. i keep hearing cruz, kasich, is this kasich, cruz or cruz, kasich. who is on top? who is the boss? >> listen, speaking for john kasich, he will not be vice president for anyone. he says he has a better job than that now as governor of ohio and he does but plans to be president. so listen, this is nothing unusual. >> who do you want -- okay. >> mr. trump acts like he discover there had is gambling in casa blanca. campaigns in multi candidate races frequently cooperate ad

hawk on a temporary basis and an estate or two the trump people and the kasich people. >> maybe will be forced to because this is "hardball". >> what is your candidate? do you think of the double teaming of trump as he's about to win, it looks like, five states tomorrow and my hunch is this isn't going to work. he's going in indiana as well in and knock the opponents. >> indiana is ted cruz' to lose. he said he will win indiana. >> elope on it? >> yeah. >> try it here. ignore that? >> i like at this -- >> trump is ahead. >> i look at this and say it's falling apart. there was a month ago -- >> why did you say it's cruz to lose 41- 33 out there. >> ted cruz said he would win weeks ago. polls. >> when you start to smile -- >> the only poll that counts. >> never smile on "hardball" rick. advice to a newcomer. when you smile i know you're bs-ing. >> a recent poll has cruz in a margin of error. it's not impossible for cruz to win, but listen, it doesn't

matter. >> your voters are going to vote for kasich. you can't go to a voter that likes moderate or traditional republican relatively conservative like john kasich and say by the way, vote for the most right wing guy running. how do you get a voter to do that? >> we have a relatively low vote total, around 20%. if we don't campaign or advertise, it opens the field for cruz. >> you're talking right now, charlie. what do you tell the voter, who is your republican and moderate reasonable republican. you tell him to vote for cruz right now, go ahead and do it. >> we're not asking -- >> go do it. >> the 20% for kasich that are dedicated to kasich to vote for cruz. we're leaving the field open for the undecided and people that might have reservations about trump to go to cruz. >> so you want them still to vote for your guy in indiana. >> i think if they are for him, they should vote for him but the point is you know what happens in the last week of a primary. >> this is where i'm getting confused. do you want the kasich voter to

vote for kasich or not? >> i do but it's -- the question -- >> the governor does, as well. >> the arrangement is who will do advertising and campaigning in the different states at the different times. >> do you want the cruise voters to vote for cruz in oregon? >> sure. if somebody is already for cruz you won't change -- >> falling apart. >> you know what i found interesting -- >> that's a hell of a deal. >> indiana money is good because he stayed back and did a fundraiser but doesn't want their vote or maybe he does. i don't think anyone really knows but i think this deal is falling apart already and at the end of the day, you're going to see donald trump has a movement going on. there are just today 8 million more people have voted at this point already in 16 -- >> 40 states already done, too. >> well, at this point in the math -- >> 40 out of 50 are done. >> 60% higher turnout. this is a movement out there. >> what do you think -- >> you got 38% of all those votes. that's really a crowning -- >> what's the kasich game? >> the kasich game is to get to the convention where donald

trump does not get 1237 on the first ballot and everybody knows he'll lose votes on the second ballot and third ballot because a lot of people are not for him after they are no longer bound and at that point, you have an open convention and they will pick up a lot of party regulars. >> and you expect trump to take the loss? take the loss and walk out of cleveland a loser, a loser? >> i do expect him to lose. >> do you expect him to accept that. >> rick will tell you they will get 1237. >> your candidate walk away as a wounded dog if he lost the convention. >> multiple past 1237 we'll get there. >> if he doesn't get the 1237. >> we're not going to see that. >> trump had strong -- had some strong attacks on both kasich and cruz today. let's watch him. i think he loves this stuff, attack from a defensive position. here he is. >> i was called and they said sir, kasich we call him one for 41.

he's won one race in 41 states, one. okay? states and islands. so i call him now, i have a new nickname for him, 1 for 41. >> he's a stubborn guy. he's like if you have a child, just says i want it, mommy. i don't care, mommy. he's eating today, stuffing his -- i never saw bites this big. he's pushing it in with his -- i never saw a guy eat like this. i watch cruz this morning and he's all mixed-up because he's losing so badly and when he's under pressure, he's like a basket case. he was a failed senator. couldn't get anything passed, nothing. all he is is a guy that will go down and stand and fill buster for a day or two and the other senators look, when is he getting off the floor, jim? guy is a pain in the [ bleep ]. >> does he rehearse this stuff, rick? where does it come from the -- about he had a nickname, little marco, lying ted and now 41-1. >> uh-huh.

they seem to stick. look, he has the -- he has the finger and the clouds. >> so the american people, republican primaries like trash talk, name and give me a break. >> all the guys that i thought was like you, all the candidates you like, reasonable republican, jeb and walker and all, all got blown away by the republican voter. what happened? >> there is pop lose movement but he's gotten 38% of the vote. not a majority. not going to get a majority of the delegate. one vote that counts. it's who on however many ballots it takes gets 1237 delegates. this lid on cruz, how many delegates he can get. everybody knows on the second

and third ballots, trump loses a lot of votes because they are not for him bound by state law. and by the third ballot -- >> how do you keep the 200 or so delegates available unbound to go to trump? >> because they don't like trump. they want a winner. that's why john kasich is the only one to win the election and delegates care about electability. >> casey, you're out there covering this. give us a sense what is happening out there. >> the question right now is what are these outside groups going to do as this starts to unfold and do they have enough money? this is in many ways this kind of desperation ploy born of the fact that there are all of these multiple paths for trump that rick was talking about to get to 1237. the needle is much smaller, you know, they really have to thread the needle if they stop him and actually get to the open convention and i have to tell you, chris, i talked to john kasich today at his event in rockville not that far from here and, you know, those of us that

covered him for a long time know him to be a happy warrior, this guy that has a smile and joke and he was not that way at all today with me. it was the opposite. it was clear that it almost seemed as though he was being dragged into something here. you know, i asked him about donald trump and what you just played where he is making fun of eating habits and, you know, there was no crack to the facade. he said no comment. i just -- i don't want to talk about it. the only time i got him to crack a bit is when we talked about california, which i think is starting to emerge as really the alamo for this, and the real test of whether or not this alliance can possibly hold and i think there is a lot of skepticism because there isn't deep well of trust here, right? if anything, neither one of these camps, you know, the opposite set of feelings. not like it's built on a strong foundation here. >> thanks for that. >> let me check with your guy,

happy that cruz temporary ad hawk thing. >> a lot of campaigns do this. >> a lot of resources and rather than spread and fight over the states, you go ahead and make a deal. >> were you part of it? >> no, i wasn't but i'm happy to hear about it. these kind of coalitions, i remember and arkansas regan gained up and denied conley, baker and regan ganged up on bush and denied him all by four. >> not on television. >> well. >> this is happening on television. >> here is the difference, in the era of super pacs, if you make an arrangement like this you have to put out a press

release because the super pacs don't know what to do. you can't talk to them. it's a crazy system. kasich was with him two days last week in a good mood before anybody questioned his table manners. i don't blame him for being upset. >> why? it's personal. kidding. why is this guy going after table manners, sweating abilities. >> these campaigns are playing to lose. we're playing to win. >> you're enjoying this, aren't you? >> how can i not? it's high school, some of this, going after eating habits? >> i know we're playing to win and we'll get to 1237. >> we demand donald eat in public for the next week and we'll see what people think. >> it's hard to get your picture taken while eating. you seem to enjoy this. you're not as much as you usually are. we're waiting for donald trump to take the stage and pennsylvania. we'll be real. he called the alliance between ted cruz and kasich collusion.

i'm calling it thelma and luis and later this hour, we'll talk to someone who could be hillary clinton's short list on the list, should she win the nomination. castro is on the list and really there and coming up at the top of the hour, the two-hour town hall doubleheader. chris hays sits down with bernie sanders and at 9:00 eastern rachel maddow interviews hillary clinton. we're talking about republicans mainly. this is "hardball" a place for politics. why do some cash back cards keep throwing obstacles at you? first - they limit where you earn bonus cash back. then - those places change every few months? i think i'll pass... quicksilver from capital one puts nothing in your way. you simply earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. you can't dodge the estion...

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. but donald trump when it comes to religious, he said learn, ted you got to learn to cut deals with the democrats and to go along to get along. well, let me be very, very clear to the men and women of indiana. i will not compromise a way your religious liberty. >> that's ted cruz moments ago at a campaign rally in indiana next week's fight. the alliance between cruz and kasich is proof that politics can make strange bed fellas. the cokoch brothers are signali they are not happy with the 2016 republican options. in an interview with abc yesterday, charles koch called the leading republicans bad role models and said he's open to

supporting hillary clinton. here it is. >> you're role models and you're terrible role models. so how -- i don't know how we can support him. >> is it possible another clinton could be better than another republican? >> it's possible. it's possible. >> you couldn't see yourself supporting hillary clinton, could you? >> well, her -- we would have to believe her actions would be quite different than a rhetoric. let me put it that way. >> well, the clinton campaign was quick to decline koch support saying not interested in endorsements that deny climate science to make it harder for people to vote. well, they turned down votes as the wall street journal reports ceos have concerns about the tone of the campaign. executives worry for now the rhetoric of the election discussion could weigh on consumer confidence and derail a sweeping 12 nation trade back. the chance pacific partnership

and that many businesses support. so they are worried about the money taken together it's the latest indication that members of the establishment wing of the republican party are not readily to fall in line not yet. i'm joined by ron kessler who is a trump supporter. susan paige the washington burro chief and msnbc eugene robinson. so what do you make of this gene, because it looks like we're at the short hairs, if you will, down to the reality of the election and looks like this is a final moment last chance saloon on the republican side with the odd teaming up of cruz and kasich and business leaders saying we might go with hillary. >> look, i see this not as an 11th-hour move or 10th-hour move. i think the window has closed frankly. you know -- >> after tomorrow night very closed. >> exactly. exactly, two days from now we'll probably be talking about how donald trump swept five states and is that much closer to the

1237. and, you know, let's not pretend that doesn't potentially have an impact on what happens in indiana and down the line. >> it's serial, isn't it? it's serial. >> it does build. momentum does still count, i think. of course, who knows. >> it's a lot. >> it does. >> five states tomorrow, they are not -- they are regular -- i'm an easterner, i say regular states. pennsylvania is very regular. rhode island is a little different up there and connecticut is wealthier. delaware is pretty good bellwether of the country. these are pretty good states to judge the mood of the country and all going to go for trump. >> they come on the heels of a big victory in new york and got a lead in delegates. whatever the republican establishment, whatever ceos think, people are going and voting for donald trump and giving him delegates and that's what made him a front runner. you see these republicans, i think, coming to think it's -- not only possible but that trump

could be the nominee, likely trump will be the nominee and what does that mean for me? maybe i support hillary. maybe it means they focus -- >> might be more hawkish for them. ron, you can define the capital of the united states, 435 representatives. define the establishment, which includes the wall street journal readers, editors of the wall street journal. that world of the koch brothers. what is that world and why are they all against trump? >> you have different factions. >> what is the establishment faction? >> the establishment is a dinosaur as they have conventional wisdom. they don't understand that donald is a totally different phenomenon. i look at donald as a reporter. i first got to know him two decades ago when i did a book on palm beach called my midlife crisis and drink more champagne and go to more parties. we went down on this plane with my wife pam and he was imitating the nasal constructed tones

condemning his club because it admits blacks and jews, so i couldn't be a member and my friend couldn't be a member. >> but he opened the door to everybody. >> as some clubs in palm beach to this day do not admit blacks or jews. this is the donald i know. >> he's a frank sinatra type, high living but open minded. >> he creates character of himself on tv to get attention. he did it for his brand. trump brand and doing campaign and the real donald is this very savvy. >> let's talk about the first donald trump, like ronald reagan played the guy like ronald reagan, regular guy, likable. trump for all those years on the apprentice played this tough judge, you know, you're fired. now he's playing this sticky standup guy, right?

how many perpersonas does he ha? >> that's a question. if you ask which is the real donald trump. don't you think the trump we see is consistent. every once in awhile last tuesday night when he tones it down and reads from a script but by in large trump is a consistent person sew that through the past year. >> explain it. someone from another country, explain. >> he's a flamboyant ideology or anything in particular. he's just himself. >> trying to get to the heart with ron. why do they say because he isn't a member of the club because he didn't ask for a membership. >> he's not a member of the club. he's speaking for a lot of people part of the republican base but don't necessarily believe in republican dogma on a number of issues like free trade and a lot of other things and

because, you me, the person i think he has established during this campaign is the anti politician. and he resists doing anything -- >> he did it again today. >> the smacks of regular politics because he knows that plays. he knows that people are sick of politics, politicians. >> enough. >> he's running against the establishment. the establishment is worried. >> today trump said if the rnc allowed cruz or kasich to win the nomination, there would be a revolt. here he is. >> how do you vote for a guy who has lost by four or 5 million votes and hundreds and hundreds of delegates down, who is lost, let's say, i'll have 40 states, 32 states, 35 and they will have like 13, 14 and now we're going to pick the guy. so we're going to pick a guy over a year got creamed, right? got creamed. we're going to let him because -- so you explain how

that's done. you would have a revolt. >> ryan kesler, that's your argument, isn't it? is trump willing to walk? i think that is interesting because if i were thinking about trump, one thing i want to make sure they know in the establishment, i'm not to be played with. if it looks like i'm within 100 votes or so they and keep me, i'll have a meeting of the delegates across the street by a thousand delegates and say you-all go home now. we're bringing this place down if they don't let me win the nomination. >> i want to say everyone gets it except for dinosaurs. >> why do you think they can keep the delegates working for them. >> they are stupid. you're learning his vocabulary. what people don't understand is he's going to change as he gets into the general election. he's going to start. >> we'll watch him now. let's take a look and watch as he makes news tonight.

we'll hold with him as long as he makes news. a regular part of the country. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> do we love our country? do we love our country? this is amazing. and we love withis area. and we love the state of pennsylvania and we're bringing it back. [ cheers ] >> we're bringing it back. thank you, everybody. wow, what a turnout. and they have 6,000 people outside that can't get in. this place is unbelievable. hello up there. unbelievable. so we have a lot to talk about. this is my last stop. tomorrow is so important. you're going to go out and vote. who is going to vote for trump? [ cheers ] >> we're going to make that the best vote you ever cast, i promise you, i promise you. believe me.

america first, folks. make america great again but america first. remember that. so just a couple things. my son eric is here. you know eric? he's a good boy. in this area he said dad, make is you are you mention natural gas that we're 100% behind it and we are. natural gas and coal and coal. we're 100% -- we're going to bring things back and we're going to bring them back like they have never been before. we'll take our jobs back. we're bringing our manufacturing back. we're going to take it from all of these countries for years have been ripping us off because we have politicians that don't know what they are doing so we're going to take it back.

the whole thing is crazy. we're leading by millions of votes. we're leading by hundreds of delegates and it's a rigged system but i said, you know, let it be rigged, i talk about the boxers, i have a boxer. he's fantastic. a friend of mine is a world champion and goes into a very unfriendly territory. i said what are you doing if you have a good match you'll end up losing on a decision with bad judges. he said mr. trump, the only way i have to do it, i have to knock this guy out. i have to knock him on his ass. [ cheers ] >> and he did and he picked up a big paycheck so what we're doing is we're going to win on the first ballot. we only care about the first ballot and it's sort of interesting because if you look at these two guys, one is 1 for 41. and i won many, many states. millions of votes ahead.

many states, many. he goes to new york and doesn't register. no delegates. they ought to both drop out of the race to unify the republican party. [ cheers ] and a great poll came out. you saw it on the top of drudge. a great poll that has me even with hillary clinton. that's nothing. i haven't started with hillary yet. haven't started. amazing. amazing. that crooked hillary the same old stuff years and years after watching it. it's always the same. she's not bringing back jobs. she doesn't know the first thing about it. she's going to open the borders.

more people are pouring across the southern border than pack t practically ever before. it's out of control. we don't know who these people are. we don't know where the hell they come from and pouring across and the border patrol who are amazing people, just so you know, last week the border patrol endorsed donald trump 16,500 people. they have never done it before. never done it before. never done it before. they are amazing people and sheriff joe endorsed. you know sheriff joe from arizona. so we're going to do a great job. they are setting records. people are coming across. we don't know where they are and then you have coming from the migration thousands and thousands of people and they are coming here, nobody even knows where they are going. they put them all over the

country. nobody knows are they isis? it could be the great trojan horse. nobody knows. we'll build a wall. don't worry about it. we'll build a wall. that wall is going to get built. this place is unbelievable. this place is unbelievable. all right. so look. so i go to the stat -- >> susan, we're back there. he did make news there with this -- i use the words i would normally say on a street corner, gutsy, ballsy statement they ought to both drop out and unify the party.

i can take on hillary, but to have them both drop out and unify the party under me. >> we're going to hear that tuesday night, tomorrow night, wednesday morning, if as we assume he will have big victories in all five of the northeastern states voting tomorrow. >> you guys scram. >> he'll say i'm the consensus winner on a path to 1237. it's time for you guys to consider sglsh why do they ke consider. >> indiana is the most important state in the union. have you seen -- how did that get started. i have been hearing for weeks indiana will change everything. >> these are goalposts that keep moving. a couple weeks ago they were going to stop him in pennsylvania or that's not working out too well. now they are going to stop him in indiana after indiana i don't know, it will be nebraska or south dakota or -- >> or california. >> you remind me of the stories of the alamo. >> how many points up in

california? >> it's such a big prize cruz could hold on to california saying it's not over until it's over and trump will not be over the numerical and will have not clinched it before california. >> reminds me of the alamo story. the last little corner of the mission they could control before the mexicans over ran them. it is like that. you're right. they could keep moving -- >> no, and now they talk about indiana because they will lose tomorrow. [ laughter ] >> i think -- >> i would hate -- >> nobody wants to talk about that. i think five tomorrow and one the next week they lose indiana because the voters don't like to be manipulated. if you're a kasich voter and you're told to vote for cruz, he's the opposite of what i want. >> exactly. >> not puppets. >> no. >> he sited polls showing he's even with hillary. when he starts being the more moderate donald. >> what do you expect this? >> as soon as the primary is

over orphan nic finished. >> what makes you confident? >> i've known him for two decades. >> when does he go into the presidential mode? when does he become presidential? >> june 7th. >> have you ever seen him presidential? >> i see him every time i see him he's like that because that is the real donald, the confident savvy businessman and all his employees know that and anybody who deals with him behind the scenes knows that. for example, the hispanic chamber of commerce called for a boycott of properties last summer. a few months later, the ceo met with him for over an hour and he emerged and told cnn wow, he's totally different. >> did they agree to stop the -- >> yeah, i don't know about that but he said, you know, he listened and thoughtful and. >> i agree he can be calm. i've seen him. he is personable, too. i don't want to say too many good things because people think i'm for him. >> exactly. >> you are for him? >> i think you're far sided. >> i would like to say i'm

pretty sure people don't think you're for donald trump. >> check twitter, you would be surprised what people think about anybody. >> i know. i know. >> anybody says anything other than he's a pox on the earth at any given moment is seemed to be -- >> i didn't come up with this list of candidates. they have come to us and we have to deal with them. they are the food put on the table here and one of them is called trump. anyway, ron kessler, thank you. good guest, thank you. susan, gene. up next as hillary clinton ways her options, she said to be considering the next guest. this is going to be a fascinating interview because he could be the vp for a year. there he is. he doesn't like me saying that of texas. secretary of hud and he joins us in about a moment. this is "hardball" the place for politics.

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has your campaign considered who to pick for v.p.? >> i'm just working hard to win on tuesday. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was secretary clinton dodging a question about what -- whether her campaign begun the search for a v.p. running mate. "the new york times" reported over the weekend her team started discussions and one question under consideration is whether her choice for vp will be able to handle working the white house in which former president bill clinton will weld the influence. she cares less about ideal lolg kill and wants somebody that could be an effective attack dog against either candidate and said that hillary clinton does

not feel pressure to enthraw. labor secretary tom perez and cory booker, massachusetts senator elizabeth warren. secretary castro joins us now from philadelphia where he's been campaigning for hillary clinton ahead of tomorrow's primary. mr. secretary, i think that's a pretty good list. i think they are all good candidates including you. what do you make about the fact that hillary clinton may be looking for someone that can win the first debate? i thought that was interesting because one thing you have do is help win the election. are you a good debater? i know you're great on tv. >> no doubt first i would say i think that hillary said it very well that first she needs to win tomorrow here in pennsylvania and in the other states and get the nomination and so it is very

premature to talk about vice presidential selection. i have no doubt that whoever is picked as the vice president is going to be somebody that is of great ability and going to be great for the ticket and most importantly is going to be well-qualified for the position as president. i have said myself for a long time that i fully expect to be back in texas next year so i'm happy to support secretary clinton like she made a lot of great decisions throughout the care rear and campaign with this very important decision she'll select somebody that will be a fantastic vice president. >> let me go back and use your historic sense. we've had a could democratic v.p. candidates horrendous in debate against dick cheney. we had joe rememb, and edwards puppy dog. don't we need strong candidates for vp who are one to knock off

the heads? >> you need someone effective. how that person is effective depends on the personality and posture what they are up against. we don't know who will be on the other side of thetieies of thisr is we may not know. the traditional notion is that somebody has to be a strong attack dog. usually that's true. but it's also true that the person has to be nimble enough to handle whoever is on the other side, but aside from all that, the most important thing is that person chosen needs to be somebody that can do a great jo if god forbid it was necessary for them to step in as president. >> how are you in that? >> well, as i've said, it's not

going to happen for me. >> if jerry ford was president of the united states through a series of constitutional and he is president of the united states and he is. harry truman ended up president. when roosevelt died, he didn't imagine that would happen i don't think maybe did but do you ever think about it being presiden president? >> i do not. >> never thought about being president? >> i have not looked in the mirror every day. >> you have accepted a cabinet position. you've been elected and accept a point of position without any thought you may rise to the top job. >> chris, you know, i'm 12th in line in succession so if they ever get to me, something is really wrong. [ laughter ] >> i think you're a great guy so let me change the subject. okay. i'll get you off the hook.

>> i have zero doubt she's going to make a very good decision for her vice president and that that person is going to do a fantastic job on the campaign trail and be well-qualified if he or she was needed to step in god for bid. >> okay. let's talk "hardball." there is somebody in that campaign told paul heelly, what's his name, i'll think of it in a minute, heelly of the new york times that hillary clinton doesn't care if the candidate she picks for v.p. enthralls the bernie people? is this a good idea or should they pick somebody they like on the left. >> what they want do is select somebody that is going to compliment her well and also be able to help go out there and get support from the left and the center. somebody that has credibility and then again, the most important thing is somebody that can actually step in and do the job if called upon to do it.

>> should she apiece the bernie people as part of this deal making and putting together a ticket? >> that verb you're using apiece is not the right -- >> enthrall, embrace? >> i think if you remember, you know, 2008, 2008 was in someways an even more heated, even more heated race than this one and at the end of the day, secretary clinton was fantastic about trying to unify the party. >> sure was. >> so was president obama. i'm very confident that headed toward november when democrats realize that we have a choice to make between somebody like donald trump or ted cruz and someone who is progressive who can get things done and would be a solid president, a great president like hillary clinton that democrats will support hillary clinton and also, i think independents are going to overwhelmingly support whether cruz or trump. >> thanks so much. you're a great guest.

you do think about the white house and you should. thank you secretary julian castro of hud. >> good to be with you. >> good to have you. up next, let's make a deal. ted cruz and john kasich join forces to stop donald trump and trump calls it collusion. he wants them both to quit the race. the "hardball" round table is up next to talk about it. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics.

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many, many states. millions of votes ahead. many delegates. other one is a total disaster and doesn't register he's so low. they ought to both drop out of the race to unify the republican party. >> that was the most egotistic think we've heard. joining me now is the "hardball" round table and jennifer jay sobs and former congressman tom davis. john kasich supporter, you got like two minutes a piece here. what do we do here if you're you? do you do when trump said clear the field, get out of the way? >> staying in for day one into oregon, new mexico and california and go to conventions. the only person that can win a

general. >> jennifer, get out of here, scat. >> i think he was clearly irritated today. if you're going to unleash the pancake attack into the 2016 race -- >> what's the pancake attack, quickly. >> he doesn't like the way john kasich eats, we know he is a very -- >> does he eat pancakes one at a time? >> apparently trump thinks he shovels food into his mouth. new nickname. >> is nothing sacred? >> no. [ laughter ] >> no, as long as donald trump is in the race, nothing is sacred. what i wonder is what took cruz and kasich so long to do this deal? >> the republican, you got to use that term regular republican and the guy is a hard right guy in the middle is trump. how can they marry against him? >> the trump guys told me today they think this tarnishes cruz' brand -- >> i think it rubs off the sharpness. >> you got to stop the front

runner and the only way is not divide the forces in a state like indiana which is winner take all. >> the problem with what they are doing is what you're saying is absolutely right but plays perfectly into donald trump's overall argument about -- >> rigging. >> the system is rigged, corrupt, bribing people, all of that and trying to steal the nomination from us. >> kelly o'donnell said how can you ask voters to be part of a back room deal because you're asking the kasich people to vote for cruz in indiana. how do you vote to play the game? >> i talked to a gop official in oregon this morning and he said he doesn't think it's going to change the outcome of the vote in oregon. people will still vote the way they want. >> i think indiana goes for trump. jonathan, jennifer, thank you and tom cruz -- no, tom davis. >> almost. [ laughter ] >> when we return, left me finish with the ploy to stop donald trump. i have thoughts i've been holding. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics. windows 10 is great because

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let me finish tonight with this new republican ploy to stop donald trump. don't count on it. as richard nixon, a student of the political dark arts once observed, whenever you hear of a stop x movement, bet on x. why? because the movement to stop a particular candidate is a, too late and b too divided. by the time the others realize the only hope lies in combining forces, the leading candidate they want to stop is so far ahead the only plan that offers hope at all. also, none of the candidates

joined together to stop the front runner have interest in seeing any of the other challenges pick up the pieces. they want to free the front runner and end up the front runners themselves and one other reason, why would any voter want to vote for the candidate to stop movement clears the field for. if you're a cruz voter, why would you vote for kasich or the other way around. here we stand before five republican primaries, pennsylvania, maryland, connecticut, and rhode island trump could win all five and amids of the big news, time to bunch togeer to try to stop him. here is betting the nixon rule applies when the only way his rivals see stopping him is a stop trump movement, bet on trump. if i were hillary clinton or optimistic bernie sanders, i would be thinking about this and readying for battle because the real stop trump movement needs to get going after the conventions. that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. see you on wednesday night and

stay tuned for two town halls together starting now with my colleague chris hays and senator bernie sanders. >> they said he didn't have a chance. >> remember, when we began this campaign, we were 60 points behind. >> until his message started a movement. >> we're doing something radical telling the truth. >> have the courage to take on the special interests preventing us from going forward. >> how does bernie sanders bounce back this time? >>ly i will stand up and fight for you all the way into the white house. >> if you believe that issues can be addressed by the establishment politics, you've got a very good candidate to vote for but it's not bernie sanders. >> on tuesday, he'll have to prove he has a path to victory. >> when we stand together, there is nothingha