conjunctive nominee, definitely. i use the analogy of the boxer, when the boxer knocks out the other boxer, you don't have to wait around for another decision. that's what it is. that's what happened tonight. as far as i'm concerned it's over. these guys cannot win. if hillary clinton were a man, i don't think she'd get 5% of the vote. the only thing she's got voting is women's card. >> if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the women's card, then deal me in. >> good night for hillary clinton. you know what, eh, for donald trump. depending how you look at it. >> we found where the ceiling was, 67% is that his ceiling.

>> you know. >> poor guy. >> there's a lot of ways, that's what we should focus on. for trump three of the five races were called immediately after polls were closed with final two following his way a few minutes later. trump's wins were sweeping. the margins were wide. he won with 64% in rhode island. >> can i say this? >> yes. >> you're covered with cat hair. sorry. >> am i really? >> what's the ceiling. >> ceiling was 15, 20, 25%. >> no. >> last night in rhode island trump's ceiling, poor guy, time to get out of the race now. only 64%. in delaware pathetic. the rookie was held to 61%. connecticut. >> it is the first time he's ever run for anything. >> 58%. pennsylvania, not an important state.

>> everybody was right. >> everybody was right all along. maryland 54%. he won 109 delegates, ted cruz won three, john kasich won five. if you take a bad lift from a sports movie like hoosiers, they can deduct those back from you. that was pathetic. >> that much closer to 1237. go ahead. >> the numbers weren't on crushing in terms of 54, 67%, the demographic of that vote that he received last night was truly crushing for his other two candidates. ted cruz is now a marginal regional candidate, a loser. donald trump is a national candidate. >> the demographics he's talking about, trump is not winning among conservative voters,

evangelical voters and starting to do better among suburban voters. >> i went to my polling place and i actually had all of these women -- it's conservative with small c. >> connecticut conservative. >> it's very, very connecticut i would say. >> college pink and green. >> that's what i say. i walk in and there's all these women in pink and green and all these guys who obviously are probably going right back to the club, ten. they were like, yeah, we know who you're voting for. they are all like hissing at me. right? they go kasich. >> i said, who are you voting for? >> this he go, trump. i started thinking if they are all voting for trump in new canaan. nobody would have put his bumper

sticker -- i told you about this. nobody would have put his bumper sticker on their range rover. >> i saw my first one a few months ago. >> it's spreading out to suburbanites, conservative evangelicals. even in the northeast. >> the walls are closing in on the stop trump movement. cruz and kasich trying to do their under anti-trump -- >> it's a terrible blunder. not like we haven't been -- we've been quoting richard nixon for a long time here who said show me a campaign where everybody is against candidate x and i will show you a campaign where candidate x wins. last night candidate x, donald trump, crushed -- crushed all

commerce. >> donald trump will be joining us live in about 30 minutes. on the democratic side hillary clinton won four out of the five bringing in 193 delegates. bernie sanders. with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. formers communications director nicolle wallace, managing editor of bloomberg politics and former chairman of the national committee. >> before we go to the maps, what is mike barnicle. >> legendary. >> nicole is like the iron woman. >> caffeinated. >> how are your parents feeling this morning? >> they texted me all night as though it's my prime time coverage. i get notes like jump in and

tell them that donned is evolving. jump in -- i said at one point, for his own political purposes, it might have helped him to do what he has to do to give a quick congrats, fire back with twitter -- texting range. he should never. >> michael steele, he calls himself the presumptive nominee. what would we call him? >> the presumptive nominee. if he were any other candidate, that's exactly what everyone in washington, around the country would be calling him inside the gop. donald trump put together a massive coalition of support. he's now won in every region, winning in every region of the country. the base is now consolidating behind him. what has to happen -- the base is saying this clearly to everybody else, you need to get behind him and move this thing

forward. i think the party should spend less time trying to deconstruct and try to figure out how to help him be a successful candidate in november. >> donald trump excelled with voters across the board. look at the map of pennsylvania. he won every county across the state, the same as maryland, delaware. he won all but one county in rhode island and all but six in connecticut. as of this morning it appears ted cruz did not win a single county last night. according to exit polling, trump did it with voters of all income brackets. in maryland he took 60% of voters who made between 50 and $100,000. in connecticut, he won a majority of voters in every single income bracket. >> yeah. but john heilemann still -- >> john heilemann, a caveat. >> however, come on. what are the papers going to be?

it's got to be something. >> i got nothing for you. >> he got nothing? >> what's happened? complete, total dominance over the past several weeks? what's going on? >> yeah, look, he's again -- oh, my god. so on the democratic side front-runner is all but assured the nomination. on the republican side results narrow chances for cruz and kasich. advisers foreign financial deals led to disputes. >> all negative. trump has his night and all negative. >> if you think about his performance last night, if you look at the range of what he could do going into yesterday, in terms of the margins he might have racked up if you projected forward and the kind of delegate haul he would get, he was at the high end of the range. we assumed he'd win all the states, but he won them by huge

margins and took virtually every delegate available. all the questions about unbound delegates in pennsylvania that are still out there but many of those delegates have said they either intend to or will for sure follow the results in their congressional district. so the 109 delegates that we show him getting understates the case. he's going to get a bunch of unbound delegates out of pennsylvania. i think it's fair to say that even within the cruz and kasich camps, when they were looking at what they were hoping to accomplish tonight to keep open some path to stopping him from getting to 1237, he beat that ceiling -- he beat -- their hope for projected, beat that by a lot. it's not impossible, it's not impossible that he could be stopped from getting 1237 but it's really, really, really hard now. it's really hard. >> it's really unlikely, as we've been saying around the table for for a month now. yes, it's very unlikely.

they actually used their ground game. they spent money, worked on their ground game. it paid off. they were all over pennsylvania. and it certainly did pay off. nicole, i want to go back. i just -- i'm sorry, i have to take one final swipe. >> at me? >> no, everybody. >> not you. >> it's morning. >> at everyone. >> yeah. >> that had been saying like it was the gospel for years. >> time to put it away. >> the second the field narrowed that trump would get beaten. i heard fools say -- i'm going to say they were fools, or else they were just politically dishonest. it goes back to people saying -- intellectually dishonest saying what they hoped it would be. >> blinded by hope. >> blinded by hatred and not

good analyst by saying how many times did you hear through the fall, 27% of people may be for trump, even though we said his ceiling was 15. what does that mean? that means 73% are against him. like serious editorial writers, serious newspapers. >> with never any evidence on a tuesday night when elections were held. >> personal animus. >> performing based on that analysis. >> trump would say in realtime, yeah, but those other 73% aren't all going to go for them. a lot of them are going to vote for hillary. that's just trump being a jerk. >> even with the new alliance, strategic assumption that cruz and kasich made, was that if kasich clears indiana, they will all vote for cruz. i've never seen any data suggesting that kasich and cruz voters overlapped so -- you could bank on them voting the

other. i've never seen that. >> on every level. >> on every level. >> mike -- >> one thing i would hope would cease out there, after you say what you say, after you say what you say, you start getting all this negative reaction to it among viewers saying you're in the bag for trump. trump is the news story. trump is the leading candidate for republican nomination for president by far, has been for several months. >> on that first part, a lot of that was just anger because we were right and everybody was wrong. >> never say it again. >> i'll never say it again. all i'm saying, we heard that when everybody else was stupid -- >> true. >> everybody else was stupid. they were wrong and we were right. you're in the -- hey, how about this, put it on a bumper sticker. we're in the bank for the truth.

we were right about marco. no, we don't hate marco, we just knew he wasn't going to win. >> there's a sub lead to the crushing defeat trump administered to his opponents, he's not controlled by any rival in his campaign. >> a rebuke. >> here is trump last night at a news conference in trump tower. >> this is a far bigger win than we even expected, all five. that's something that'sreal really -- not only is it all five. it's all five whether it's 60 or just about 60. even i see one up there at 66 and 67. you have to remember, and i say this all the time to the pundits. i love the pundits but i say it all the time. there are three people. when you crack 60, as we did last week with our great city and great state of new york, when you crack 60 with three

people, that's very hard to do. in fact, i think chris can tell you if you crack 60 with two people, that's called a massive landslide. >> i consider myself the presumptive nominee absolutely. >> trump also addressed campaign strategy including he rejected a push to make him appear, quote, more presidential. his blunt rhetoric is merely a persona. >> no, i am me. i hear that. he'll be presidential, he'll be not presidential. it's very easy to be presidential. by the way, much easier. i'm not playing a part. look i started off at 17, rhyme down now, it's winning. it's over. these guys cannot win. there's no path. why would i change? if you have a football team and you're winning and you get to the super bowl, you don't change your quarterback. i'm not changing. >> it actually seems, mika --

>> i think it's a nonstory, the whole persona thing. >> what i'm saying is i think we're getting a balance in this campaign. you had paul manafort coming on. corey in there. seems what we saw is a balance. paul manafort bringing discipline on communication front. corey, let trump be trump. at the same time manafort and others organizing on the ground seem to do this job very well. a big win. >> organizing on the ground is something they need to do well and should do well. in terms of this whole persona thing. first of all, he is 100% correct, it's going to be a lot easier to dial back. this guy has been riffing and ad-libbing and extemporaneously going through the election process, quite well for him, by the way. no prompters, off the cuff,

taking on media from all sides, using social media from all sides, making mistakes and getting through them. now at the moment he feels he needs to dial back, or maybe a moment takes him over and he feels something different, he will do it. no one is going to tell him to do it. he's not a puppet, he never will be. it's a made up story. i know him. he spends the whole day on the phone talking to people getting ideas, concepts. it's not man fort and corey telling him what to do and giving him advice, it's a lot of people. he picks and chooses what he likes, what he feels. he's not a puppet. >> and he's giving a foreign policy speech today, then he'll go out tonight probably and talk about lyin' ted. >> i have a question. the trump campaign for the last nine days, michael, am i wrong in cleveland one of the more interesting aspects to cover in terms of news would be the platform. trump would seem to me he's

heading towards the middle. he's going to be in opposition to some really rock ribbed hardened views among conservatives in the republican wing of the party, is it going to be a platform fight, do you suspect? >> oh, yeah. as nicole can tell you the reality of the nominating process is when you become the nominee, you take over the operations of the republican national committee. they put on the convention for the nominee, but that nominee has his players, his team in place on both the platform committee and the rules committee. that's why that rules committee fight is going to be an important one, because ted cruz and john kasich, to some extent, are going to try to gain some control there, to have some influence on how the convention operates. but the message, the soul, the heart of the party is going to be found in the platform. donald trump if he goes into

this convention with the 1237, or close to it, will have a greater say in controlling opportunity to make that platform much more a reflection of his philosophical view than you will have from some others in the party. >> all right. well, still ahead on "morning joe," two of the most important voices in republican politics right now, donald trump joins us on the heels of his election sweep last night. plus house speaker paul ryan, who will need to square his agenda with that of the party's eventual nominee. >> coming up next, we are going to be going enthusiastthrough h clinton's massive victory last night. >> i was going to read your piece, trump's sweep is a humiliating defeat for media and political -- >> i don't want to talk about that. >> i think lose a lot of friends. i don't want to read it. we'll be right back. for the ons who rise before it shines. the ones who labor for what they love.

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and we will unify our party to win this election and build an america where we can all rise together, an america where we lift each other up instead of tearing each other down. whether you support senator sanders or you support me, there's much more that unites us than divides us. >> what a massive night for hillary clinton. that was a huge -- nicole, a huge victory for hillary clinton. >> a huge victory, a terrible night for bernie sanders. by the end of the night the sanders campaign was sending out its first signals they will now pivot to making their effort one about changing the platform. i think maybe that went on a minute too long, because donald trump as part of his speech last night is telegraphing bernie's latest round of attacks on her,

which were as recently as sunday shows calling -- doubling down on the charge she's unethical and unqualified. so i think that race may be buttoning up in the nick of time. >> what do you think, john, over? >> mathematically it's been over for a while. to the extent it was with her 240 pledge delegate lead going into last night. >> right. >> it was essentially impossible for him to catch up. she picked up another 50 pledge delegates last night. it's mathematically out of reach. >> what happened? was she always going to be the strong northeast candidate? what happened? we can explain hillary doing great in the south but what about the northeast? what happened? >> she's been strong everywhere. he's won some contests, run a great campaign. >> he won like seven out of eight. >> a lot of those were caucus states and a lot were states with very -- with the least diverse lec torts.

northeast lec torts, more diverse lec torts, a strong northeast candidate. she's got momentum, better ground game. none of that takes away from what he's accomplished. he's gone so much further than anyone ever expected him to go. he's electrofied an incredibly important part of the electorate that she's going to need to win in the fall, but she built -- she was the front-runner. she was able to get through her moments. she was under most pressure. she was able to get through those moments and come out the other end. >> natural electorate in places like seattle, portland, and oslo. there just weren't enough of those in the calendar. >> last night senator sanders congratulated secretary clinton on her victories and signaled he was looking ahead to the next 14 contests. in the same statement his campaign wrote, quote, the people in every state of this country should have the right to determine who they want as

president. what the agenda the democratic party should be. that's why we're in this race until the last vote is cast of that's why the campaign is going to the democratic national convention in philadelphia with as many delegates as possible to fight for a progressive party platform. many are reading into that language the acknowledgement the campaign is slipping out of their reach. last night in philadelphia gave little attention to the crowd's vote but instead reminded the crowd how far his campaign has come. >> we were taking on the most powerful political organization in america, an organization that elected a president, president clinton, on two occasions and ran a very strong campaign for president, secretary clinton in 2008. as of today, we have now won 16 primaries and caucuses all over

this country. and with your help we're going to win here in west virginia. >> you remember the final scene from marco rubio's campaign, sort of a sad moment this he had to fill half the atrium and it was mainly friends. that's how most campaigns end, sort of with a whimper. that campaign is not over. that campaign continues and hillary clinton's people need to understand those people last night knew things weren't going great and they were out there screaming and yelling and fighting and they are going to keep screaming and keep yelling and they are going to keep fighting and they are going to take you to the democratic convention. hillary clinton is going to have to give bernie sanders and his supporters something significant because right now she's seen as an interventionist correctly, not just by me but by "the new

york times." she's an interventionist. she has closer ties to wall street than any republican that's in the race now. bernie sanders for millions and millions of democrats is the fix to that problem. >> as with every campaign that ends, as you say sometimes with a whimper, the sanders campaign is clearly in the nostalgic phase. just entering nostalgic phase of his campaign. but nothing that happens within his campaign from here until they get to philadelphia can diminish what sanders has done over the past 14 months. it's been truly astounding. nor can it diminish the fact hillary clinton has always been the presumptive nominee of the democratic party. those are the realities. >> mika, what an inspiring campaign. >> i have to say -- >> as a republican, it's been so -- >> i've been much more in awe of that campaign than i have what's happened with donald trump. that made sense to me from the get go. maybe it didn't to others.

from the get go, this guy was going to have broad national appeal, draw huge crowds for whatever reason. bernie sanders seemingly came out of nowhere when you look at what are the makings of someone who could draw a huge crowd. just look at him. okay? >> make her a better candidate. >> yeah. >> the thing that's important to your point, joe, is this. he, because he represents where the base of the democratic party is on a lot of policy issues more than she does, has he pulled her to the left in the course of the nomination fight. he's going to seek to cement that in the course of the convention. they have been thinking about this for much longer than they are going to admit, how leverage, delegates, strength, energy that's behind that campaign, how they are going to leverage that into the platform. now talking about another platform fight. he wants to basically say i'm not doing to let you, hillary clinton, as nominee pivot back to the center. i'm going to go to the convention in all the places to the left, i'm going to salesmen

those things, written into the platform and make you live by them. >> while that's happening, i wonder if something develops we saw in the last elections, republicans voted for obama. i'm hearing more and more republicans saying they are going to have to vote for clinton because they don't want to vote for trump. i wonder how big that group will be. i've heard a lot of republicans say i'm going to have to vote for clinton. >> her lead says that. for every republican elite that says that. >> they might be lying. >> there are 10 reagan democrats, 10 working class independents that will vote for trump. >> next republican candidate donald trump joins us live ahead on "morning joe."

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donald trump next on "morning joe." in our next hour house speaker paul ryan joins the the conversation. we're not going to ask him if he's running for president. right here on "morning joe."

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suffering increasingly isolated political and media class. time and again over the past year washington insiders and media moguls misread the move of voters and their attraction to popular message championed by trump. on tuesday that message, which undermines republican orthodoxy on trade, taxes and immigration resonated with gop primary voters so strongly that trump cruised to lopsided victories in pennsylvania, connecticut, rhode island and delaware. donald trump joins us now on the phone. donald -- >> donald, are you feeling more presidential this morning? >> yes. >> stop it. >> hold on. he's going to sound presidential. sound presidential for us. >> i get more and more presidential as i have victories, absolutely. >> sounds like he's lying in bed. >> no, i'm not. >> you sound really excited to be on "morning joe." >> i am.

always exciting. what a night. he's been presidential. intensely boring. wonderful. the first time it's happened. so should ted cruz and john kasich drop out of the race? >> they should have. in fact, i heard they were having a news conference last night to drop out of the race and they canceled the news conference. they have to play their game. john is now 1 for 47 and ted is, you know, a disaster. i guess i'm 3.5 million votes up on him. it's crazy. it's a crazy thing. it's crazy. no highway. it's over. i think we're doing very well. i think we're going to do very well in indiana. we have the great bobby knight endorsing me tonight, which i look forward to. it's going to be exciting. >> are you ready to predict you're going to get to 1237 and more when it comes to delegates. >> i've been saying that for a monday. i think we're going to get it.

i think we're going to get it fairly easily and we're going to have an amazing -- i think we'll do great in indiana, california, and some states in between we're going to get. >> are you going to start turning your attention now to hillary clinton and the general election? >> a little bit. i want to finish off the final two leftovers, the two guys that shouldn't be here. for the sake of the republican party, they shouldn't, because we want to unify the republican party. but i have two people that are still here hanging around as the expression goes. not going to get anywhere. it's going to take time. it's a process. have you to wait a week and then you have to wait another week. instead of that, we could be raising money for the republican party, a lot of it. i have a lot of friends, give a lot of money to the republican party. we're not going to do it until they find out whether or not i win. i have friends that will give tremendous amounts of money to the republican party. >> were you surprised last night

by the scope of the victories? >> yes. >> talk about that. >> well, the scope was fantastic. i was told if i get 50 it's good. i was told you couldn't get 50 in all of them. you know, getting 50, joe, you and i discussed this and i discussed it at length last night. getting 50 is very tough when you have three people. >> right. >> you know, if you look i won by 60 and 62 and last week it was 62 in new york and you have three people, i mean, if you had 62 and you had one person that's considered a landslide victory, right? if you win by 5 points, you know, if you're one or two, it would be a really, really amazing. now, i mean, if you win one-on-one by 5 points that's considered pretty much of a landslide, right? so i'm getting essentially 60% against two other candidates. that's pretty amazing. >> are you at this point, you have to be thinking about vice

presidential picks. are you starting in your -- >> i have someone in mind but i don't want to talk about him because i don't want to think about it until it's over. i heard cruz was starting to think about vice presidential picks. he may pick carly fiorina. i see rhode island is 64. that's a good number. >> donald, by the way, we wanted to talk to you about that. that appears to be your ceiling and maybe you should drop out of the race. >> it's my ceiling with three people. don't forget, if i had two people the 64 would have been 80. >> "the washington post," we've been talking about it for nine months now, why has the media -- we've had this running joke, trump's ceiling 25, 30, 35, 40, poor guy should get out of the race. why has the media underestimated you so badly at every turn. you've been seeing it, living it

at every turn. you actually paid a compliment to the media, ask you why you did that. why have they misread you so much over the last nine or ten months. >> i'm an outsider. i don't play by the traditional rules. i'm self-funding my campaign which maybe has an impact on them. i think the media is under pressure. i think they look very bad. when i came out, they all said i was going nowhere. i wouldn't announcement. you folks were great. not everybody was. you gave me a hard time, too. >> when did i give you a hard time. >> we give you a hard time on things you disagree with but we always thought your candidacy was successful. don't understand the people who didn't get it. mike barnicle has a question. >> donald, congratulations on your crushing sweep last night, first of all. >> hi mike. thank you. thank you. >> of all the candidates on both sides of the aisle in the course of this campaign, you have the

most resonant campaign message, let's make america great again. it's clearly identifiable. people have clung to you and listened to you in the last several months. in your mind, what period of time or what specific year do you want make america akin to in the past? what year or decade or generation would it be? >> none, because i think we can make it better than it ever was. i think we can actually make this country better. i think if hillary clinton gets in, it will never have the opportunity again, because we're going down fast. we're really going down fast. if she gets in, we will never have the opportunity. so there's really none. we're going to have our own era and it's going to be a great era. there's so many things we can do to make our country rich again and great again and respected again. and i would say none, mike. there were some interesting times but you're going to see something -- we will make america greater than ever

before. >> donald, last night, hillary clinton spoke about you during her victory speech, and it was specifically about gender. take a look. >> the other day, mr. trump accused me of playing the, quote, woman card. well, if fighting for for women's health care and equal pay is playing the women's card, then deal me in. >> it seems that would be the one area -- perhaps -- you say you have plans for hillary. i would think she's incredibly strong on these issues. >> i haven't quite recovered, it's early in the morning, from her shouting that message. i know a lot of people would say you can't say that about a woman, because of course a woman doesn't shout. the way she shouted that message was not -- that's the way she

said it, and i guess i'll have to get used to a lot of that over the next four or five months. >> what about issue pertaining to women she discussed including equal pay and right to choose. >> we're going to do very well. we're going to do very well with hillary and women as soon as we start our process against her. we're going to do very well. i don't even know if it's going to be hillary. we're all waiting to find out with the e-mail scandal. i don't know. what's going on with the e-mail scandal. it's taking longer and longer. she's guilty. everybody knows she's guilty but they don't want to go after her. it's going to be an interesting thing, but she's got a problem. people at the far left are sitting in jail cells. >> so you said hillary clinton was shouting her message. bernie sanders shouts his message, too, right? >> bernie sanders has a message that's interesting. i'm going to be taking a lot of things bernie said and using them. i can reread some of his speeches and get some very good

material. many wish she shouldn't be there. he said some things about her that are actually surprising. that essentially she has no right to even be running. she's got bad judgment. when he said bad judgment, i said sound bite. but bernie has been treated very badly by the democrats and democratic party. frankly, he should run as an independent, i think. >> great call. >> by the way, nicole is here, and her parents were texting her furiously all night, a good night for nicole's mother and father. >> congratulate them. i like nicole's parents nicole is a very beautiful, nice woman but i like her parents perhaps better. >> fair enough. you're giving a national security speech today. there's a lot of anticipation. created in part by lengthy

interviews you gave to "washington post" editorial board, "new york times" editorial board. i think you would acknowledge there is a lot of filling in to do about the kind of foreign policy you would do as president. i wonder if you could take us behind the scenes of that process. did you put some of your favorite generals, thinkers on the plane? did you debate out some of the long held conventions about our alliances. tell us about the process, not just how it was written but how you arrived at what you're going to detail today? >> we did. with he had a lot of very good experts. i'll be naming them today. that helped people of great consequence. i will say that a lot of people that i've looked at have great names and they have been involved with nothing but failure. they have wonderful names. you should use general tso and so. you should use this one and that one. they have been involved for a long time with the strategy of our war plan -- >> i'm sorry, but no one -- you view iraq and afghanistan as

fair, so no one involved in either going to war or executing wars in iraq and afghanistan is anyone you would consider to be part of your foreign policy team. >> they are considered and i'm using some. but i will tell you that there are some that i just couldn't take it anymore, when they were giving me their credentials. mr. trump,iver been involved for 14 years at the highest level of the iraq war. i said, well, i would really not be interested in using you, sir, with all due respect. we'll forget about you. we need new thinking. we need a lot better thinking. this is ridiculous. what's been going on for so many years is ridiculous. whether we like it or not, there are people out there that haven't had a claim but i like their ideas better. we had conversations with both. i'll be announcing names later. we had conversations with both, all very good people. everybody is a good person. some ideas just haven't been working. when i see people like lindsey graham working on the war floor

as long as he's been in the senate and then he says i've been doing this for many years. well, that's the problem. it shouldn't take many years. it might take many months, it might take many weeks if we had the right people. >> john heilemann. >> i'll be there to hear your speech. congratulations. i've heard about roles manafort and lewandowski play, some say coo. i would like to hear you describe their respective roles and what they do for you in the campaign. >> let's go back to the beginning. we started with corey and hope and a few people, right? when everybody said trump is only going to do this for a few weeks and not have much fun. i didn't start with hillary where she had 8 or 900 people sitting in an office, finished

office space in brooklyn because she has money from pacs. even though i have a lot more money than any pac put together, i like to watch my money. i don't know. it's an old habit. what happened, we have actually by far the best in the history of campaigns, we have the best location. joe, would you say that's right, and mika? in the history of campaigns we have the best location. >> it is. you can afford to build it out a little bit. >> cement walls. >> concrete walls. >> wires hanging down. >> i only have the space rented. the day the campaign ends, i get the highest rate in the city. the day the campaign ends, i'll build it out for a computer company. it's one of those things. but it's fine. i like it in the concrete. the other looks sort of ridiculous to me. so we have that.

it's a rough space. we came in in iowa second, a close second, got no credit for it. marco got a lot of credit for coming in third. i got no credit coming in second. it's a race should have come in first actually. i had the votes but the caucus process was not a process that i frankly ever heard of. i've been doing this for a couple months. >> hey, donald, you're locking down the nomination and you're still going back to iowa. >> you remind me of someone i know. >> no, they asked me about the campaign. went to new hampshire, we won it, south carolina, went to all these states and i started winning like crazy and have been winning every since. the campaign has gotten bigger, it's evolved, right? we started with corey as the manager and hope doing a lot of work. hope is terrific, too. all we're doing is adding more people. now, paul actually gets along very well with corey. they get along. they have different functions. they are -- the functions are

broken up. i brought paul in because a very, very smart friend of mine, who knew him very well said he is fantastic. okay? he's somewhat political, my friend. he's actually a very successful businessman. he's a political type. he loves politics, like all of you. he said this guy is fantastic. i brought paul in. and paul has done a really good job. the two guys get along. the only time they don't is when a phony paper like "politico" will write a story that has no bearing in truth, none whatsoever. this "politico" rag, they write stories that are so false with no comment and they never call me. they never ask me for a quote. honestly, i'm the only one that matters. it's my campaign. >> you're the one in charge. >> they don't even call me to ask. they should call me. how are they doing? i say, they get along great. >> sounds like you're not available. >> i read a story that is so unbelievably bad but they don't call me to ask me that question so they can never know the

answer. i'm telling you they get along really well. they have separate functions, very separate functions and they are doing great. >> let me ask you in closing, you had said bernie sanders -- by the way, i want to go back. yes, we have been critical of you from time to time, but we've never questioned, like everybody else, whether you were going to win this thing or not. it seemed obvious to us, especially mika from the beginning, that you would. >> mika knows talent, i will say. she's like a talent scout. she knows great talent. >> she does. >> jeb bush does, because in the midst of the campaign, pd donald trump -- he calls me mr. trump. mr. trump is a gifted politician. >> i think you're more than a politician. >> let me ask you, you said last night bernie sanders is not being treated fairly by the democratic party. you said it again this morning. >> i agree with that. >> yeah, we certainly agree with that. they have been -- that process has been rigged from day one. let me ask you, though, on the

republican side, how is rnc treating you? are you being treated fairly, with sufficient respect? and if you win the nomination, are you going to clear out the rnc and get new leadership there or are you going to keep rance priebus and put others in place. >> i onlike reince, he likes me as much as you can with anybody that gets these wins. they were supposed to pick a senator, who would have lost, a congressman, senator -- not so much a congressman. but sometimes. or a governor. that was the way it was supposed to be. you have ben carson come in. he's a great guy. he endorsed me. he's a great guy. he was actually very effective. he was the most effective in a sense. chris christie came in and did very well. a lot did better than kasich but

they didn't stay in. marco rubio has far more delegate than kasich, and he didn't stay in. he said, well, i've got to get out now. he did the right thing. kasich should get out also. i think, joe, that this is a campaign that has a lot of legs, a campaign with a lot of good brain power. i think it's a campaign that's going to work right to the end. >> but are you going to work with the rnc or are you -- if you win the nomination, are you going to get a new group of people in there. >> i'm going to try, joe. i think so. the campaign and to a certain extent the rnc inherited this. this delegate system is a scam. it's a scam. now, with that being said in pennsylvania i did really well, because i got to 17. plus i got many, many more that are already pledged. you i don't think have reported. they have a great chairman

there. i have -- really a great leader. i have many delegates in pennsylvania that you haven't been reported on because you don't know yet. it will be announced. a lot of them. we did the whole pledge card thing. >> yeah. >> but the whole system of what's going on, where i win in louisiana and end up with less delegates. >> it's outrageous. >> the whole system is a scam. hey, joe -- >> we're showing pennsylvania right now. the entire state, it's all red. you won every county in the entire state. it is hard to believe that every single delegate there is not going to back you. if they don't, that is a scam an it's a rigged process. >> not representing pennsylvania. >> i would be saying that if john kasich or ted cruz won every county. if you win county, how do you not automatically get every delegate. >> every single county. in pennsylvania they have a morals provision where they will back -- they morally inclined to

back if you win, and i won everything there. but i will say this, right now in pennsylvania you have lyin' ted cruz and his staff of honchos, and they are going around trying to pick-off people. they are taking them to breakfast, taking them to lunch, taking them to dinner. they are all over the place. he lost the state. in fact, he did horribly in the state. in fact, out of five states, i think he only came in second in one. ted cruz, in all fairness to john kasich, who should not be in it, 1-for-46, ted cruz last night came in fourth, came in third in four states. i don't know. i don't know where he's going. ted doesn't have the ability to get votes. mika picked that up a long time ago, perhaps faster than anybody else. mika gets nauseous when she watches this guy speak. >> now, come on. >> i do. >> ted cruz cannot -- i'm trying

to be nice to you. >> i appreciate it. >> ted cruz cannot get votes. the only way ted cruz gets votes is a scam deal. he'll go to wyoming where they don't vote. he'll go to a caucus where the caucus is fixed. the guy can't get votes. he's not a good politician. but he shouldn't be trying to pick-off delegates. we should get 100% of the delegates in pennsylvania and it looks like that's where we're heading. >> we're looking at that story closely. we're watching. donald trump, congratulations. >> congratulations. huge night, donald. >> thank you very much. i really appreciate it. >> all right. talk to you soon. >> thank you. >> we're back in just a moment with more "morning joe." zulu-6-9er...

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should ted cruz and john kasich drop out of the race? >> they should have. i heard they were having a news conference to drop out of the race and they canceled the news conference. they have to play their game. john is now 1-for-47 and ted is, you know, a disaster. i guess i'm 3.5 million votes up on him. it's vaez. it's a crazy thing. it's crazy. they have no highway. it's over. so i think we're doing very well. i think we're going to do very well in indiana. i have the great bobby knight endorsing me tonight, which i look forward to. it's exciting. >> are you ready to predict you're going to get to 1237 and more when it comes to delegates? >> i've been saying that for a monday. i think we're going to get it. i think we're going to get it fairly easily. i think we're going to have an amazing -- i think we're going to do great in california, arizona and some states in between we're going to get.

>> trump -- just finished interviewing donald. you're one that have been saying it, talking about trump, talking about how very few talked about it. you're one of the few people that said from the very beginning, this guy does not play by the rules, he's like "godzilla," he only gets stronger. he can make it. >> he's helped by the fact that the never trump movement is a joke. at this point, it never was a movement to speak of, but it was never going anywhere. look at the percentages last night. 57%. that was the low. in a great state like pennsylvania, 57% to me is striking. it makes me wonder about the sort of received wisdom that donald trump's very high

negatives are fatal to him. same as supposedly true of hillary clinton. she's got these sky high negatives, it's really going to hurt. those negatives don't seem to be hurting these candidates that much. >> in fact, last night in the exit polls, as you know. >> it was very diverse financially. >> what i noticed also is people who would have never supported donald trump six months ago are talking about going to my town in new camen and a lot of people wearing their tennis outfits would have six months ago gone donald trump, oh, my god. they were mocking me. they were like, you're a kasich guy, aren't you? >> kasich -- >> we saw last night. look at the exit polls. trump is expending move conservative, evangelicals, the

angry, among suburbanites. the base is expanding. >> the map he won every county in pennsylvania -- >> let's back up a second. gene is here former strategist and msnbc analyst steve schmidt as well. go. >> steve, i'd like to talk with you. you, along with gene, and there are very few, we actually had a fight with somebody on the set, a certain media type came on right afterwards and said i've seen this before. i saw it in california. i saw it with schwarzenegger, donald trump could win. you said that. that was back in june. what do you see and what do you see moving forward? >> he's a man whose message suits the time we live in. has collapsed in the country. >> collapsed. >> after an era of unprecedented

fraud in the country. >> wow, you just nailed it. >> in sports, business, government, politics. the message for months we sat here, people say he doesn't have a message, it's all nonsense talk. he does have a message and it's a powerful one, make america great again. it has three parts to it. the country used to be great, it's not anymore, it's our last hour to be great again. he has proof points that the five republican orthodoxy on the republican war, for example, on issues like carried interest for taxation and on the trade issues, the effects of globalization for so many middle class americans have been devastated. the republican message has not kept pace with these working class voters. >> hasn't attempted to reach out to him. "the new york times" yesterday had a front page article we talked about, talking about all of the areas in america impacted by trade. all of these trade deals that

the republican party, for unfettered free trade at all costs no matter what, workers be damned. we'll worry about them later. if you go to communities devastated by trade deals they are voting for trump or they are voting for sanders. >> to both points, look at bernie, bernie sanders isn't losing, just ask many of his backers or listen to some of his own complaints. ee being robbed. donald trump isn't winning. just ask ted cruz by whose strange and self-serving logic it is the will of the people, his actual words, that he and john kasich included to prevent trump from amassing a majority of delegates so that some runner up with less than demonstrable support can leap frog past him. democracy in action. the refusal to grant victors legitimacy bundles together so much about today. the coarseness of discourse, the

blind tribalism coloring our debates, the elevation of individualism far above common purpose. the ethos that everybody should and can feel like a winner every day. our system for electing prlgts is indeed a mess. >> truly would not of the great writers of the country, may be one of our greatest columnists. >> but pushing for change is different from rejecting any unwelcome -- >> if you look at this race, donald trump by any conventional measurement is the presumptive nominee of the republican party because he's now across the line where it's clear he will secure all of the requisite delegates necessary to be nominated on the first ballot. that number is 1237. he will cross that number at the latest the night of the california and new jersey primaries. no one else has an ability to get to that number.

it's impossible for the other two candidates remaining in the race to deny him the number. >> to all of this, to the piece, what steve just said, to what gene writes about quite a bit, it's fairly obvious for many, many years the average american has been treading water in a river of anxiety. we have not paid enough attention as an institution, the media, to what happened to the lives of millions of americans in the fall of 2007 and 2008, where they lost so much. >> they are still living that reality today. >> they live it every day. we take a lot of grief from people who tweet like that. you cannot ignore the fact trump's message in an unusual way, if you go to his rallies, and this has nothing to do with favoring him or dumping on him, his message is of such an intimate nature to the average american who goes to these rallies or hears them on tv that it resonates. >> not just trump but bernie

sanders. that's what i wrote about last night in the "washington post" column, gene, was the fact elites never saw this coming because elites don't live where the other 300 million americans live. i talked about television, for instance. elites watch television, you know, by picking shows on showtime or hbo and binge watching when they aren't running the world, being masters of the universe. >> they don't watch "celebrity apprentice." >> charles murray in "coming apart" talks about average american watches 35 hours of television a week. they watch shows like "the apprentice." donald trump had 14 seasons. they know donald trump. they know donald trump a hell of a lot more than elites. like ronald reagan from '56 to '62 had 20 million watching him every week on ge theater.

he was mocked, ridiculed as a b list actor. >> people knew him. >> they knew him because he came into their living rooms just like they know trump who came into their living room from 2004 until now. >> there is a bubble, prominent media people and business people -- i hate describing this group of people as elites just because i think that's a vague word but that's what they are. there's a bubble within which they live. it's not that physically distant from real america. there's real america in maryland. there's real america in pennsylvania. there's real america in new york city. >> david brooks the fact he needed to do his job better and get connected with middle america. just take the staten island ferry. go to staten island. >> a preview. you don't have to go far. that sort of psychic isolation

from what's really going on in the country is a huge factor in how the election played out. >> how it played out. psychic isolation. i like it. last hour on "morning joe," trump also responded to hillary clinton's reaction to him saying she was playing the woman card. last night hillary clinton spoke about you during her victory speech, and it was specifically about gender. take a look. >> the other day, mr. trump accused me of playing the, quote, woman card. well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in. >> it seems that would be the one area where perhaps you -- i don't know, you say you have plans for hillary. i would think she's incredibly strong on those issues.

>> i haven't quite recovered. it's early in the morning -- from her shouting that message. i know a lot of people would say you can't say that about a woman, because, of course, a woman doesn't shout. the way she shouted that message was not -- i just -- that's the way she said it. i guess i'll have to get used to a lot of that over the next four or five months. >> what about issues pertaining to women that she discussed including equal pay, the right to choose. >> we're going to do very well. we're going to do very well with hillary and women as soon as we start our process against her. we're going to do very well. i don't even know if it's going to be hillary. we're all waiting to find out with the e-mail scandal. i don't know what's going on with the e-mail scandal. it's taking longer and longer. she's guilty. everybody knows she's guilty, but they don't want to go after her. it's going to be an interesting thing. >> steve schmidt. >> so she's not guilty for the

record. >> that's not true. >> a million bells wrong when she talked about hillary shouting. bernie shouts too. donald trump doesn't care and his supporters don't care. >> smart democrats, certainly that applies to a lot of people inside the hillary campaign, they know what a tough and formidable opponent he's going to be in the general election. the notion that donald trump is the nominee is someone she beats in a cake walk is absolutely wrong. he's an asymmetrical opponent. he is totally unconventional. he will be unlike anybody we've ever seen in an election contest. he will have very great amounts of energy behind his change message. he's going to indict the failed leadership of both political parties over the last generation. he's going to say we need to have a clean break from it. he's going to position her as a figure of the past in an election about the future. so this is going to be a very, very interesting general election as we start to see it come into focus now.

>> i think one really interesting area, and we'll learn more today, when donald trump gives his foreign policy speech. we will learn more about that. but that's emerging as a pretty clear difference between the two. hillary clinton is more interventionist, more traditional forward leaning, forward position, u.s. foreign policy. >> you could almost call her a hawk. >> she's the closest thing to a hawk left in this race. donald trump is not. he talks about pulling back. he talks about focusing on nation building at home, much like president obama did, actually. so that's going to be an interesting contest. >> also the total unpredictability factor with donald trump running against hillary clinton. looking at someone totally unpredictable and has a teflon aspect to his candidacy that has got to be unnerve to them in some sense. no matter what he says about foreign policy -- whatever he says, he seems to have the

ability based on his experience. >> i can't believe what he said about her voice. i can't imagine if ted cruz or john kasich said that today. >> they would be going on "the tonight show" weeping like three nights from now saying they meant nothing from it. >> but he doesn't have to. >> doesn't have to, they love him for it. >> people who have been swimming in this river of anxiety, they want a clean break with the past. >> the outrage industry of american politics, absolutely and completely. he's just not playing the game. he's not going to be brought to heel, not apologize, not play any of the games we've associated in this space over the last couple of elections. this electorate that is supporting him, they have been condescended to so frequently by the elites of this country over the last generation, who are

these people at the end of the day? these are people who played by the rules. got up every morning, who worked hard, who put in shift work, blue-collar america. these are people who fight our wars. these are people whose sons an daughters go into the u.s. military and broke the social compact with them. that compact was shattered. it was shattered in the latter part of the last decade and they lost everything. the millions of job losses, the millions of mortgages that went under water and the homes that didn't come back, the loss of retirement savings, these are the people who felt it. these are the people who lived it. and now we're hearing from them loud and clear in the 2016 election. >> these are the people who lose their homes, their jobs. too many of them, 1% of them, lose their children to wars that they do not favor. now this fall, in trump versus hillary clinton, they are going to be looking at one person, trump who represents that clean

break with the past for them. and it's -- you know, we've never seen anything like this. >> look at this number. this is a year of populist revolt. for so long republicans have been seen as a party of big business and small government and vice versa for the democrats. look at this if you're driving your car april 26 primaries, wall street hurts the u.s. economy, democrats 61% helps the u.s. economy 30%. republicans. wall street hurts the u.s. economy, 46%. helps the u.s. economy, 44%. a plurality of the republican party that voted last night believes that wall street does more damage to america and mainstream and trump voters believe that even more. 53% of trump voters believe that

wall street hurts the american economy. if you go back to 2008 and trace it forward, it's hard to argue anything else. >> there is your general election matchup. there's the fight right there, because some people might be willing -- if they aren't banking on trump, they are willing to take the risk to bank on trump rather than perhaps go with somebody who is going have to prove she can build this trust, go with somebody who, at least in perception, has been there every step of the way as this debacle, complete loss of trust in the country unfolded and hurt so many americans. i don't know how she does that. it's not that it was her fault or she was a part of it or her policies promulgated it but she was there. she's part of the past. >> again, we've said it fore. it's the truth. donald trump, insurgent candidate could not draw, have a better draw than running primarily against a bush in the

primary and a clinton in the general election. >> it is going to be tough. i really do. >> it will be close. >> they can read these numbers, so i'm not -- >> i totally agree with you, but i do think there is a perception that she has been there and here is where we are. that's something that's got to be -- >> that's something jeb bush had to overcome and hillary clinton in the general. still ahead on "morning joe" this morning, millions spent and little to show for it. the effort to stop trump has few wins so far as kasich, he gets his five delegates. what did ted cruz get? >> let's see, he got three. >> okay. >> also ahead, bernie math. despite big crowds, the equation gets tougher for sanders. his supporters after last night's races. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 98,352

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last night, ted cruz -- >> can we show this? >> i don't want to see it. >> have you seen hoosiers

before. >> that's my favorite movie of all time. >> it's painful for you. >> of course it is. >> oh, my god, steve kornacki is here. >> don't show it. >> hoosiers filmed at one point, he tried to recreate the iconic scene where gene hackman tried to calm his plafrs nerves in the tournament. he struggled with terminology. i'm going to take my earpiece out now. >> as y'all know, we're here on the hickory basketball court and bruce travels with me. bruce, i want to ask you something. do you have a tape measure with you? >> measure this from the rim. buddy. >> who are far? >> 10 feet. >> i think you'll find exact same measurements as our gym. >> the basketball ring in indiana is the same height as it

is in new york city and every other place in the country. >> steve kornacki, respond. >> how do you respond to that? if you're going to the hoosiers gym, if you're going to quote the hoosiers movie -- >> get it back. >> basketball ring? >> back to iowa, "field of dreams" stadium and talk about the baseball stick. >> exactly. >> very technical just watching the movie a million times. >> the scene he's talking about is like the one basketball scene in the movie that doesn't take place in the hoosiers gym. that's indiana, the championship. they are not in that gym and he's trying to show them. >> alex, what happened last night? what's happening with the republican -- in the republican race. >> joe, i think the big thing we learned last night, i think a lot of us, i wouldn't include all present company, but my group, bought into this idea there was a clear anti-trump majority waiting for somebody to marshall it on the republican side. won the field narrowed, a different set of states, you would see a natural coalescing

of opposition to the guy. we've seen the opposite happen. >> why do you think that story is? i told the the story of going to vote, very conservative with small c place in connecticut and a lot of people taunting me as i was going in to vote. >> it's the guy voting for kasich. they are all trumpsters about to go back to the club. sort of those suburban republicans that marco rubio could never find enough of. what's happening? i mean, i sat there looking, okay, what's going on here? >> he's always been a natural fit for northeastern states where the republican electorate is pretty diminished and the people left there have a certain set of issues, certain set of preoccupations that trump is particularly attuned to. then some of it i think is success breeds success. once you're seen a winner, it's hard to take that away. you saw it in 2012, 2008 when folks like mitt romney and john mccain were seen as underdogs,

so flawed. in romney's case stiff. once they start winning, this is something trump correctly identified from the beginning, being seen as a strong guy who wins things is sort of the ultimate asset here. >> steve, go through some of the numbers. they were just -- >> look at it this way. take unbounds out of it from pennsylvania out of it. 118 bound delegates up for grabs last night. looks like donald trump, we have to get some clarification from rhode island, he may walk away with 111 of 118 up yesterday. also 54 unbound in pennsylvania we talk so much about, at a minimum, at a minimum looks like 36 of them are going to be for trump. >> if trump wins the entire state of pennsylvania, wins every county, how do they not all go for trump? >> you have -- this the interesting thing. the cruz never trump. five of the people on their list who won last night had also said

they would honor the district vote. they are in districts that went for trump. they may flip now. 36 is the minimum from pennsylvania. he could be well into the 40s. just the pressure of honoring the will of the vote statewide could push him higher. >> how could it happen ted cruz could end up delegates from pennsylvania. >> vote for delegates individually on the side of the ballot. a few people on his list were well-known, a few districts particularly well organized. a few of those got in. >> again, lots of luck voting for ted cruz when the entire state went for trump. i just don't see it happening. alex, talk about the democratic side. it's over, right? >> i think it certainly comment on sanders make a state to be treated on parity with clinton of he's not necessarily making that case anymore. we heard him last night focusing on the platform, delivering a progressive message for the party. this is really different language than we're going to fight this all the way to

philadelphia and take this away from party establishment. >> steve. >> hillary clinton is the presumptive nominee, bernie sanders has no path to defeat her for the democratic nomination. >> unless as donald trump said through -- >> it's over. david plouffe made his point last week. when you go and continue to raise money from people in small dollar increments, telling them something that is not true, there's a word for that. it's called fraud. bernie sanders, who is raising millions and millions of dollars from people, middle class people who have bought into the notion that bernie sanders can win, he can beat her, he no longer has a path to victory. he cannot beat hillary clinton for the democratic nomination. she is the presumptive democratic nominee. at the end of the day the math matters here. >> he did start to say that last night in the statement. so take us through the numbers with hillary. what did you see? >> the big thing last night, bernie sanders got the win in rhode island. it was immediately wiped out in terms of delegates by the fact

hillary won delaware. connecticut basically was a push there. the big thing last night, maryland. this is a big story we've seen on the democratic side. maryland 46% of the democratic electorate was african-american last night. bernie sanders has never broken through with affirm voters, never broken there with states with substantial african-american populations. she just clobbered him in maryland. gains like 30 delegates because of that. she went into the night up about 240 in pledge delegates. she's going to leave the night up close to 300. really got a quarter of all the delegate left were up last night. he comes out down even more. mathematically it's impossible. >> so it was a disappointing night for the never trump movement after setbacks in all five contests by double digits. the movement relates to statements saying, quote, the never trump movement will now move into indiana where ted cruz has a real opportunity to deny trump a sizable number of delegates and change the narrative of this race.

>> are you following the never trump group? >> i am. >> how are they feeling this morning? >> they aren't feeling great, joe. >> completely like i don't want to say -- they are just completely separate from reality. they are totally unself aware. >> publicly they have to project this image we're going to fight and die on this hill. >> you have to get a candidate who can win and is attractive to people in washington and across the country in a way you feel would be better for this country in order to then have something to prop up to fight trump. they adopt have that. >> i think a lot of people in the crowd would acknowledge privately they do not have that candidate and wouldn't particularly want the candidate. >> let's go to msnbc political correspondent live in philadelphia. >> i think you have cruz derangment. >> i'm of the people, you want

me to do shakespeare. >> the polling is not a slam-dunk for ted cruz. >> it's not. what are they doing? what are they doing? >> nice to see both of you this fine morning. they are presenting this as the alamo. they say universally, privately, publicly even indiana is it. they are going to take the stand i think that there is a slim chance that if cruz pulls that out there are going to be at least some people who stay on his side, are willing to watch him push it through to california. but you're right. indiana is not wisconsin. cruz at the very least needs it to be wisconsin. you've got all these top elected officials, mitch daniels, other people sitting on the sidelines. talk radio has been neutral. there are pockets of indiana that have been hard hit by the economic crisis. there are manufacturing areas that are essentially perfect for donald trump. this is nowhere near a sure

thing for ted cruz. my question for him, too, is how does he break through over course of the next seven days. i'm kind of wondering what the cruz campaign has up their sleeve for today, because they really -- this has become -- we've talked so much about steve's big board and the math and the numbers. that's certainly still relevant to a certain extent but at this point we're talking about a lot of pressure that's building on people to really kind of coalesce behind donald trump. even for people that frankly i never would have expected to be willing to throw up their hands and say, okay, we're going to get on board. i think cruz's campaign knows they have to do something to shift what's otherwise going to be this victory lap. hopefully they do a slightly better job than cruz himself did with his hooters reference at that rally last night. >> oh, my god. >> thank you so much. i greatly appreciate it. what's john kasich's end game?

i love kasich, i've known kasich forever. what's his end game? he's giving up indiana a state that borders on ohio. he did poorly in wisconsin. these are states he should have won. >> i think the premise of john kasich's campaign has always made sense, which is if this goes to the second ballot, donald trump doesn't get the requisite number on the first ballot, goes to second ballot, the choice is not going to be between donald trump and ted cruz. >> right. >> it's also a choice between john kasich -- the thing i think john kasich was wrong about. it was always going to be a choice between john kasich and other candidates in addition to john kasich. but you know, if it went to a second ballot, you have trump, cruz, i'm the strongest general election candidate -- >> is this outland issue as waiting for hillary clinton to get arrested. not happening. >> meek, the difference between then and now is this. donald trump now has a clear

path to 1237 delegates. he's going to be -- >> could have told you that. >> first ballot nominee of the republican party. so when you look at the rest of the race, there's not going to be a second ballot. >> steve brarks down the numbers quickly, what are we looking at? >> here is the thing. if you factor in those unbound we're talking about from pennsylvania and nbc is going to count them, if they publicly pledge to trump he's counting them. he came out of last night close to 1,000. you win the state, get all the delegates. you lose it get almost none. he's sitting at 1050. >> you win by one vote. >> you get 30 statewide of the 57. then three for every congressional district. this the secret weapon trump has. this applies in indiana, california if that's still competitive later on. his support, there's a breadth to his support within the republican party. region neal, demographically, ideology, it's not concentrated in one district, it's spread

out. >> alex, you've been reporting on this from the beginning. how surreal is it to see the returns last night and see suburban voters you think never would move in trump's direction. very conservative voters going in trump's direction. when you look at all the things he said in the campaign, it's -- this campaign has taken some strange twists and turns. i've got to admit even saying early on this guy had chance to win, i was shocked at the people jumping on board. >> i agree. one of the useful things ipd will show us is whether that's a phenomenon extended nationally or that's about the northeast. he appeals to northeast including college educated voters and suburban women that consistently everywhere else rejected him, whether he can extend that into parts of the country that know him a little less and sort of less natural fit for him. >> indiana is a great test. are you going to indiana? >> i don't know if i'm going to

indiana. >> where do the numbers people hang out. >> a couple people on the ground now. >> washington -- i'm looking at the definition an that's what it says. >> here we go. >> okay. a person sent or authorized to represent others in particular an elective representative sent -- so what happens -- >> i got into it back and forth with never trump person in pennsylvania about this question. >> how can they not represent the people. >> she was saying the reason you have an unbound delegate is to make a judgment strictly about what's best for the party. i said what if part of your judgment of what's best for the party is representing the will of the voters of the party who are overwhelmingly for a candidate. basically this is a thing that's never been resolved. we really in the modern era haven't gotten to this point in the primary process where unbound mattered. is the function of those delegates simply to do what they think is in the best interest of electability or reflect the voters to a degree. when trump wins a state like he

did last night, if the will of the voters enters at all he's got to take all the unbounds. >> if trump wins indiana, comes back and wins indiana, does that throw everything back into -- >> i think trump has a powerful moral argument to make about the nomination and momentum argument, if cruz would wind in indiana it would reopen the path to a brokered convention that we don't see this morning. >> steve kornacki, alex burns, thank you very much. >> bobby knight today he said. very excited. >> funny. excited. absolutely absolutely loopy. all right. we'll be right back. g in your mutual fund. we invested in your fund to help us pay for a college education for our son. we've enclosed a picture of our son so that you can get a sense there are real people out here trusting you with their hard-earned money. ♪

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up next, variety has long covered inner section of politics and interim, so this election cycle has been right in their wheelhouse. we'll break down their new cover story sbilentitled "media monst the weirdest tv reality show. that's ahead on "morning joe."

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time. >> inconceivable. >> ted cruz on "the tonight show." one of the countless times candidates have and on late night shows this campaign cycle. joining us from los angeles senior editor of variety. wrote in new issues cover story entitled "media monster" presidential candidates star in weirdest reality show. never have politics been blended with entertainment, contentious debates help drive larger audiences than most new fall series. candidates take part in sketches on late night tv and strive to be hip to pop culture rentsches, sprinkle into their tweets and reveal music play lists. it's a climate which celebrity status seems to translate into political clout and in which level of exposure is scrutinized as much as polling numbers. i guess that's all due, ted, to

donald trump or what do you say? >> i'm actually of the belief even if trump wasn't in the race, we'd see a lot of this anyway. it's actually nothing new candidates do late night tv shows, that they even participate in skits. what we're seeing right now, it's becoming a normal part of the campaign process. it's almost assumed now that candidates are going to make these late night appearances, that they are going to do these comedy routines. it's all about getting likability, getting more media exposure in a fractured media environment. so i think that what we're seeing is more in the magnitude as opposed to a different in the novelty. >> again, you're right, the magnitude. a long history. rudy giuliani wearing a dress on "saturday night live." a lot of candidates on "snl."

bill clinton playing saxophone on arsenio high, hanging out with john kennedy and his group. there is a long history of this, at least dating back to beyond kennedy, right? >> you even go back to 1968 and richard nixon went on the most popular show of that time. it was laugh in. he said one line "sock it to me" which was the big catchphrase that year. nixon didn't like it but knew it was a necessity. i actually talked to the creator of that show, and he said they reached out to hubert humphrey who was running that year. humphrey refused to do it because he thought it was so off beat. later humphrey said, you know what, that probably helped nixon win the election. i should have done it afterward. what we're seeing now is candidates don't have the same kind of disdain. you just had ted cruz on. he sprinkles in these pop culture references all the time

on the campaign trail and he seems kind of like an unlikely figure to actually do that. he doesn't have the same charisma as maybe donald trump. >> you know, ted, reading your piece, you can almost make a strong case off the piece and reality around us that never has been a time in our culture where there's been a blending of entertainment and politics. you have social media, everybody knows about social media but tv shows a lot of people watch. you have "veep," "house of cards," presidential campaign, symbiotic to a lot of stuff that goes on in our entertainment world. >> i was talking to fred grandy. you remember him. he was on the tv show "love boat" and ran for congress and was elected. he actually had a really interesting point. donald trump, he says, speaks with this cadence that's a mix between rap and standup. in doing so, he talks to people, he doesn't talk at people. i thought it was a really

interesting point. it's an interesting way this you actually use entertainment to bizarrely enough appear even more authentic to the voters. r. where's your sense of where this is heading? i mean can it go further? what's the next step in this sort of celebritization of politics? >> i was thinking of that. my sense is people get a little more serious in the general election, they look for candidates not to be cracking jokes all the time, they're actually looking for the issues. nevertheless, if it's clinton and it's trump, they have very high negative ratings and they're going to be making efforts to try to boost their likability. and one way that campaigns have tried to do that is actually to go on these shows where they may appear a little more human, a little more relatable to the voters. i imagine that we'll see more of

this come the fall. >> all right, ted johnson, thank you so much. we'll be looking for your cover story in the issue of "variety." you have to get a closeup look at this. it's quite a picture on the front. it's kind of mean. thank you, ted. still ahead, house speaker paul ryan says he's learned a lot from being mitt romney's running mate. i bet he has. now stop. and he's now warning the current republican field to get their, quote, act together before the convention. we're going to ask the house speaker what he meant by that when he joins us, coming up. neighbor boy. (neighbor) yeah, so we're just bringing your son home. he really loves our wireless directv receiver. (dad) he should know better. we're settlers. we settle for cable. but let us repay you for your troubles. fresh milk for the journey home? (neighbor) we live right there. (dad) salted meats?

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up next, afternoon last night's sweeping victories across five more states, it seems pretty clear the republican base wants donald trump. the question now, when will the party bosses catch up? we'll break down the numbers from last night's results and play for you part of our wide-ranging interview this morning with the republican front-runner. "morning joe" is back in a moment. when it comes to small business, she's in the know. so strap yourselves in for action flo! small business edition. oh, no! i'm up to my neck in operating costs! i'll save the day! for plumbers and bakers and scapers of lawn, she's got customized coverage you can count on. you chipped my birdbath! now you're gonna pay! not so fast! i cover more than just cars and trucks. ♪ action flo did somebody say "insurance"? children: flo! ♪ action flo

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i consider myself the presumptive nominee, absolutely. i use the analogy of the boxer. when the boxer knocks out the other boxer, you don't have to wait around for a decision. that's what it is and that's what happened tonight. as far as i'm concerned, it's over. these two guys cannot win. if hillary clinton were a man, i don't think she'd get 5% of the vote. the only thing she's got going is the woman's card. >> well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in! >> what a good night for hillary clinton. and you know what, eh, for donald trump. i mean, you know, depending on how you look at it. >> we found what his ceiling was, right? 67%? is that his ceiling? that poor guy. >> yeah. >> i'm sure there's a lot of guys that he still couldn't win

and that's what we should focus on. for trump, three of the five races were called immediately after the polls closed with the following two just a few minutes later. trump's wins were sweeping and the margins were wide. he won with 64% of rhode island. >> can i say this because, again, this goes to the ceiling. >> oh, my god, you're covered with cat hair. go ahead. what's the ceiling? >> the ceiling was 15? 20, 25%? >> no, no. >> last night in rhode island, trump's ceiling, poor guy, time to get out of the race now, only 64%. >> okay. >> in delaware, pathetic. the rookie was held to 61%. connecticut -- >> well, it is the first time he's ever run for anything. >> i know, i know. 58%. >> yeah. >> pennsylvania, it's not an important state. 57%. >> everybody was right. >> everybody was right all along. and then in maryland, 54%. he won 109 delegates last night.

john kasich won five. ted cruz won three. though republican rules say that if you make a really, really bad lift, if you take a bad lift from a great sports movie like "hoosiers," they can deduct those three delegates back from you so he'll probably end up with zero from the night. that was pathetic. >> the first-time politician that much closer to 1237. go ahead. mark. >> they weren't only just crushing it in terms of overall vote, the demographic of that vote that he received last night was truly, truly crushing for his other two candidates. ted cruz is now a marginal, regional candidate, a loser. donald trump is a national candidate. >> say something -- so the demographics that you're talking about, trump is now winning among very conservative voters, he's winning among evangelical voters and starting to do better among suburban voters. >> speaking of suburban voters,

i went to my polling place yesterday and i actually had all of these women, it's sort of a -- you know, it's a conservative with a small c and sort of -- >> connecticut conservative. >> very, very -- it's very, very connecticut, i will say. so i walk in and there are all these women in pink and green and all these guys who obviously, you know, are probably going right back to the club, you know, tennis. and they're like, yeah, we know who you're voting for. they're all like hissing at me. >> oh, my. >> they go kasich. and i said who are you voting for? they go trump! and i started thinking if they're all voting for trump in new canaan, nobody would have put his bumper sticker -- i told you about this. nobody would have put his bumper

sticker on their range rover six months ago. now it is spreading out. >> i saw my first one a few months ago. >> it's spreading out to the suburbanites, very conservative, evangelicals. even in the northeast, nicolle. >> i think the walls are closing in on the stop trump movement, and i think that cruz and kasich trying to execute their campaigns under the banner of an anti-movement will have proven to be one of the biggest strategic -- >> blunders. >> of the cycle. >> it was a strategic blunder. quoting richard nixon for a long time here, who said show me a campaign that where everybody is against candidate x, and i will show you a campaign where candidate x wins. >> on the democratic side, hillary clinton won four of the five states. >> boy, this one is over, isn't it? >> bringing in 193 more delegates. bernie sanders, who won 132 delegates, leaving clinton about

260 from claiming the nomination and pushing ahead to the general election. so with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace. managing editor of blom berg politics john heilemann and in philadelphia, former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. >> quick question, what is mike barnicle, everybody? >> legendary. >> epic. >> i think he's more like a veteran columnist. >> and nicolle is like the iron woman. you were here all night, right? >> caffeinated. >> so how are your parents doing this morning? >> they text me all night, like as though it's like it's my primetime coverage. it's like jump in and tell them that donald is evolving. jump in and tell them -- i said at one point for his own political purposes, it might have helped him with what he has to do to give her a little quick congrats on her wins tonight and

they fire back with texting rage. he should never -- >> michael steele, has he -- he calls himself the presumptive nominee. what should we call him? >> the presumptive nominee. if he were any other candidate, that's exactly what everyone in washington and around the country would be calling him inside the gop. donald trump put together a massive coalition of support last night. he is now won in every -- he is winning in every region of the country. the base is now consolidating behind him. what has to happen, and the base is saying this very clearly to everybody else, you need to get behind him and let's move this thing forward. i think the party should spend less time trying to figure out how to deconstruct this opportunity for donald trump and figure out how to help him be a successful candidate against hillary clinton in november. >> so john heilemann, look at this. donald trump excelled with voters across the board. look at the map of pennsylvania.

he won every county across the state. the same is true in maryland and delaware. he won all but one county in rhode island and all but six in connecticut. as of this morning it appears that ted cruz did not win a single county last night. according to exit polling, trump did it with voters of all income brackets. in maryland, he took 60% of voters who made between 50,000 and 100,000 and then in connecticut he won a majority of voters in every single income bracket. >> okay, yeah, but, but john heilemann, still -- >> there's got to be a caveat. >> however. >> come on, come on, what are the papers going to be -- there's got to be something. >> i've got nothing for you. >> you've got nothing? >> so tell me what's happened? complete total dominance over the past several weeks. what's going on? >> yeah, i mean look, he's -- >> oh, my god. >> what?

>> so on the democratic side, front-runner is all but assured the nomination. on the republican side, results narrow chances for cruz and kasich. advisers foreign financial deals led to disputes. it's all negative. >> so trump has a huge night and it's all negative about trump still. i'm sorry, go ahead. >> if you think about his performance last night, if you looked at the range of what he could do going into yesterday in terms of the margins he might have -- he might have racked up if projected forward and the kind of delegate haul he would get, he was at the high end of the range. he outperformed across these states, which we assumed he would win all of. but he won them, as we've shown, by huge margins and took virtually every delegate that was available. the big question was about all those unbound delegates in pennsylvania that are still out there, but many of those delegates have said that they either intend to or will for sure follow the results in their congressional district.

so, you know, the 109 delegates that we show him getting understates the case. he's going to get a bunch of those unbound delegates out of pennsylvania. i think it's fair to say that even within the cruz and kasich camps, when they were looking at what they were hoping to accomplish tonight to keep open some path to stopping him from getting to 1237, he beat that ceiling or he beat their hope -- their hope for projected, beat that by a lot. so it's not impossible, it's not impossible that he could be stopped from getting 1,237 but it's really, really, really, really hard now. >> it's unlikely, as we've been saying around the table here for a month now. but it's very unlikely. and they actually use a ground game. they spent money last night, they worked on a ground game, it paid off. they were all over pennsylvania. and it certainly did pay off. then nicolle, i want to go back

because, i'm sorry, i have to take one final swipe. >> at me? >> no. just as everybody. >> it's morning. it's "morning joe." >> at everybody that had been saying like it was the gospel for years -- >> that it's time to put it away. >> that the second field narrowed, that trump would get beaten. and i heard fools say, and i'm going to say they were fools, or else they were just politically dishonest. and it goes back to people saying what -- saying what they hoped would be instead of what it was. >> blinded by what they hoped. >> blinded, blinded by hatred and not being good analysts. >> sometimes that works. >> how many times did you hear through the fall, well, you know what, 27% of the people may be for trump even though we said his ceiling was 15, but what does that mean? that means 73% are against him.

like serious editorial writers, serious newspapers. >> with never any evidence on a tuesday night when elections were held. >> just personal animus. >> how they were performing based on that analysis. >> and by the way, and trump would say in realtime, yeah, but those other 73% aren't all going to go for them. a lot of them will vote for me. they go oh, that's just trump being a jerk. >> and even with this new alliance, the strategic assumption that cruz and kasich made was that if kasich clears indiana, they will all vote for cruz. i've never seen any data suggesting that the kasich and cruz voters overlap so intimately that you can bank on them voting for the other. >> how unself aware on every level. >> on every level, mike. >> you know, one thing that i hope that would cease out there is people who after you say what you say, after you say what you say, you start getting all of this negative reaction to it among viewers or readers saying,

oh, you're in the bag for trump. trump is the news story. trump is the loadieading candid for the republican nomination for president by far, has been for several months. >> on that first part, a lot of that is just anger because we were right and everybody else was wrong. i hate to say it, we were right. >> never say it again. >> i will never say it again. >> please. >> all i'm saying is that we heard that. everybody else was stupid. and they were wrong every single day. we were right. then they said, oh, you're in the tank to trump. hey, how about this, let's put this on a bumper sticker. we are in the tank for the truth. >> and that on my pickup truck. >> and we were right about marco. everybody said you hate marco. no, we don't hate marco, we just knew he wasn't going to win. the same with trump. >> there's a sublead to the crushing defeat that trump administered to his opponents last night and the sublead is

he's not controlled by any new arrival in his campaign. >> a gentle rebuke. still ahead on "morning joe" more of our interview with donald trump after his clean sweep last night. plus, former ted cruz senior staffer rick tyler joins us. where does his former boss go after such a dismal showing last night? >> texas. and a little later, he is definitely, definitely, definitely not running for president, right? house speaker paul ryan joins us from capitol hill and we'll find out from him why then he keeps making big policy speeches. >> he like big policy. >> i think he does like big policy. >> but first, there's so many really, really bad segues here, but i won't do them. here's bill karins. >> little bill. >> no. >> make me warm. all over. >> yeah, we'll just leave it all right there. okay. yesterday we made it through our severe weather outbreak with damage. we had some power outages, we had wind damage, we had hail.

we avoided the big tornado that devastates a town, which was possible going into the day yesterday. the low-level winds didn't have quite enough shear, that's a change in direction, to make those thunderstorms spin enough to produce those tornados. so we had huge hail but that was the biggest issues. i just saw some pictures from texas just north of the dallas area, about four or five homes were destroyed. in all we had about five tornado reports, over 400 reports of severe storms, ohio valley right down through tornado alley. this morning there's a line of storms in south texas and now in louisiana. there's 120,000 people right now without power in the houston area when these storms rolled through this morning. so that's not a pleasant way to start your morning routine. watch out in lake charles, you could experience 60-mile-per-hour wind gusts over the next half hour so stay indoors and stay away from any trees. those storms that we're now watching in areas of texas and

louisiana will make it all the way across louisiana into mississippi today. also st. louis, new storms could regenerate over missouri crossing to southern illinois. 24 million people at risk. not too many tornados today like yesterday. large hail and damaging winds will be the greatest threats. isolated storms and some rain for virginia, north carolina today. we're clear and cold in areas of new england. it snowed, by the way, yesterday in northern new england. our friends in the west, watch out for showers in san francisco, but overall the threat of any really horrendous tornados is very low today and we made it through yesterday, so that is fantastic. leaving you with a shot of new york city, who also saw some thunderstorms yesterday. a much nicer, cooler day today. more "morning joe" when we come back. why do so many businesses rely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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off his sweep last night, and here is part of that interview. >> donald, are you feeling more presidential this morning? >> yes, yes. >> oh, stop it with this. >> hold on, hold on, hold on. he's going to sound presidential. sound presidential for us. >> i get more and more presidential as i have victories, absolutely. >> it sounds like he's lying in bed. >> no, i'm not. >> you sound really excited to be on "morning joe." >> i am. always exciting. >> what a night, huh? he's being presidential. >> all right. >> intentionally boring. it's wonderful. the first time it's happened. so should ted cruz and john kasich drop out of the race? >> they should have. in fact i heard they were having a news conference last night to drop out of the race and they cancelled the news conference, so -- they have to play their game. john is now 1 for 47 and ted is, you know, a disaster. i guess i'm 3.5 million votes up

on him or something. it's a crazy thing, it's crazy. they have no highway, it's over. so i think we're doing very well. i think we're going to do very well in indiana. we have the great bobby knight endorsing me tonight, which i look forward to. and it's going to be exciting. >> so can you -- are you ready to predict that you're going to get to 1,237 and more when it comes to delegates? >> well, i've been saying that for a month, i think we're going to get it. i think we're going to get it fairly easily and i think we're going to have an amazing -- i think we're going to do great in indiana, i think we're going to do great in california and i think there's some states in between that we're going to get. >> are you going to start turning your attention now to hillary clinton and the general election? >> a little bit. i want to finish off the final two leftovers. you know, two guys that shouldn't be here. you know, for the sake of the republican party, they shouldn't pause we want to unify the republican party. but i have two people that are still here hanging around, as the expression goes. not going to get anywhere but

it's going to take time. it's the price, you have to wait a week and wait another week. instead of that, we could be raising money for the republican party, a lot of it. i have a lot of friends that would give a lot of money to the republican party. you know, they're not going to do it until they find out whether or not i win. i have friends that are going to give tremendous amounts of money to the republican party. >> were you surprised last night by the scope of the victories? >> yes. >> talk about that. >> well, the scope was fantastic. i was told if i get 50, it's good. i was told that you couldn't get 50 in all of them. you know, getting 50, joe, you and i discussed this and i discussed it at length last night. but getting 50 is very tough when you have three people. >> right. >> and, you know, if you look at where i won by 60 and 62 and last week it was 62 in new york. and you have three people. i mean if you had 62 and you had one person, that's considered a

landslide victory, right? if you win by five points, you know, it would be really amazing. now, i mean if you win on a one-on-one by five points, that's considered pretty much of a landslide, right? so i'm getting 60% against two other candidates. that's pretty amazing. >> yeah. are you at this point -- you have to be thinking about vice presidential picks. are you starting in your -- >> i am in my mind but i don't want to talk about them because i don't want to think about it until this is over. i heard cruz is going to start to think about vice president -- you know, vice presidential picks. he may pick carly fiorina. i see rhode island, i'm just looking at your screen. rhode island is 64. that's a good number. >> donald, listen, by the way, we wanted to talk to you about that. that appears to be your ceiling and maybe you should just kind of drop out of the race. >> i know. it's my ceiling with three

people, joe. don't forget, if i had two people, the 64 would have been 80. >> there was a column in the "washington post" we've been talking about for nine months. we've had this running joke, trump's ceiling is 25, it's 30, it's 35, poor guy should get out of the race. why has the media underestimated you so badly at every turn? you've been seeing it, you've been living it, you actually paid a compliment to the media last night. i'd ask you why you did that. but also why have they misread you so badly over the past nine, ten months? >> well, i'm an outsider. i don't play by the traditional rules. i'm self-funding my campaign, which maybe has an impact on them. and, you know, i think the media is under pressure. i think they look very bad, because when i came out, they all said i was going nowhere. i wouldn't announce. you folks were great, but not everybody was. and you gave me a hard time too even, but they said i wouldn't

announce. >> when did i give you a hard time. >> we gave you a hard time on things that we disagreed with but we always thought your candidacy was successful. i don't understand the people who didn't get it. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> bruce, who travels with me. bruce, i want to ask you something. to do you have a tape measure with you? >> oh! >> he didn't do that, did he? >> oh, for anybody that saw the movie "hoosiers" -- >> it was so awkward. >> i just -- that made my teeth hurt last night. i had sharp pain shooting up. >> ted cruz throws a brick in indiana. >> what were you thinking? seriously? what were you thinking? honestly, you deserve what you get. you do. you deserve it. good luck. god! >> we've got nbc's hallie jackson there. she's on the trail and she was there at that scene that kind of -- the remaking of

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donald trump is expected to have a good night. donald trump is likely to win some states, and the media is going to have heart palpatations this evening. they're going to be excited, oh, so very excited at donald trump's victories. and the media is going to say

the race is over. the network executives, are they democrats or are they republicans? every one of them are ready for hillary. and donald trump is the one man on earth hillary clinton can beat in a general election. >> all right. donald trump is on track to get the most votes of any republican primary candidate in history. trump surged to 10 million votes after last night's results. that's already more than mitt romney earned in the entire 2012 primary season. and more than john mccain earned in 2008. trump is likely to pass george w. bush, who won 10.8 million votes in 2000. what is the list of other vote leaders have in common? they were all the party's nominee that year. so joining us now, former ted cruz campaign communications director, now an msnbc political contributor, rick tyler.

the "washington post's" gene robinson and steve schmidt join us as well. i'm hearing that there might be some sort of cruz announcement today. >> i did too. >> what is the announcement? >> they're tight-lipped. >> what is it, pence? >> we always pride ourself we didn't have any leaks and apparently that's holding. >> vice president, carly? >> it could be a vice presidential nomination, it could be pence. it could be something none of us have thought of. >> how do you not know what it is? >> i don't. >> mika, will you just get off his back? >> no, she's good. >> i want to know how you don't know. how would you not know? >> they wouldn't tell me. they knew you would look in my eyes and get it from me. >> let me ask you, is indiana -- >> are you embarrassed for me. >> a little bit. so is indiana a topic when ted cruz comes up these days -- i'm embarrassed for you. so is indiana ted cruz's

waterloo? does he have to win there? >> yeah, he has to win. >> is he going to? >> i think he's got a very good chance at it because he's in the state. if he spends a lot of time in the state like he did in wisconsin where he gets a chance to spend time he wins. that's how he won iowa. >> listen, this thing, you never know what's going to happen. obviously after wisconsin everybody predicted that it was the end of donald trump. not everybody, but an awful lot of people did. trump comes roaring back. we've been in the northeast for the past three weeks, that's his home territory. now we go back to the midwest and of course the last time we were in the midwest, steve schmidt, trump didn't do too well so there is a chance. >> i think wisconsin is a very different state than indiana. wisconsin political warfare, you know, over the last eight years. you've had the power of these conservative talk radio hosts in the state as the traditional media collapsed. i don't think it's a particularly analogous state.

donald trump is on top right now. i think it's a tough state for ted cruz. though he's still in it, right, he's not being blown out like he is in some of the other states in the polling by 20 points. but it is the last hour for ted cruz to come up with a victory. >> i think he knows that. >> and i still don't think that the win in indiana puts donald trump off path to achieve the 1,237. >> okay. let's bring in nbc news correspondent hallie jackson who's been covering the cruz campaign. she's live in indianapolis. hallie, you spoke to ted cruz last night. what is his strategy? >> is ted cruz saying what that sign behind you is saying, "it's all good"? >> this sign right here? yeah, he's trying to say it. the thing is it's not, not here in indiana where he's still trailing the polls for donald trump. i know, we didn't plan that. that sign was just there. this is the headline from the "indy star."

indiana matters like no other state. that is true for ted cruz as he has about six days to change the narrative and he's got some challenges ahead of him. i heard rick say indiana is a must-win for ted cruz. cruz himself won't ak cknowledg that. we caught up with him last night coming out of the hoosier gym. here's what he had to say to me. listen. >> i believe the people of indiana and the people of america want to unite behind a positive, optimistic, forward-looking campaign based on real policy solutions to the problems facing this country. >> is it a must-win. >> it is a very important state. take care. >> yeah, a very important state. consider that an understatement. here are some of cruz's challenges moving forward. number one, he's been making the argument for weeks that donald trump cannot bring together a majority of conservatives, but look at trump's numbers last night. they were decisive, they were dominant, they were big, big margins above 50%. how will he now change his angle to say that trump cannot coalesce conservatives if he

moves into a general election. cruz has pointed to success in that delegate-hunting strategy if this moves to a contested convention and he's been successful in places like maine recently, like south carolina recently. when you see what trump did with those unbound delegates in pennsylvania and the numbers are still early there, but it looks like trump did very well, which is a blow to sort of this argument that cruz can say, hey, i have the ground game. indiana really key. what we're seeing is similar to what we saw a little bit in wisconsin. a lot of time on rope lines shaking hands, personal, retail politicking like what he'll be doing around this diner later. >> you know what they say around that diner. it's all good. >> they also say bless your heart. >> thank you so much. let's go to the managering editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. he's on his way to donald trump's foreign policy speech. mark, we tried to dig into donald trump's relationship with reince priebus and the rnc. we've heard people close to him

saying a month or so back if he won he was going to wipe everybody out there. talk about that relationship with the rnc going forward. are they going to climb on board very quick lly here? >> i think trump said something very interesting to you guys. that he's got mega rich donors desperate to give to the rnc if the other two get out of the race. trump needs something from the rnc. and when he needs, something he tends to go and get it. the fastest way to the rnc's heart is through someone else's wallet. if they see that trump -- if they think he's going to be the nominee, if they think he can start using his role to raise money, a lot of them could start getting on board probably after indiana if trump wins it, maybe before. trump wants to take over the convention. he doesn't want reince priebus plan his convention. presumptive nominees get to plan

the convention. i think that's what trump wants and i think he could maybe make a deal. >> so we have on set with us this morning all the people that had magic eight balls and predicted this when nobody else was. steve schmidt -- don't show tyler. don't show him. he's the one guy -- i mean he was with ted cruz. come on. but we have gene robinson here that predicted trump's rise but you, mark, very early on said that trump was going to do extremely well here. a lot of people mocked you. what did you see last night in the returns as they were coming in? >> well, look, people can try to discount a northeastern result because trump is from the northeast. but, you know, he beat -- soundly beat john kasich in pennsylvania. john kasich was born in pennsylvania, he's the governor of a neighboring state, it's culturally similar. trump has vanquished 14 people, he's on the precipice of vanquishing the last two.

as we said before, you don't normally see a guy win connecticut and alabama. it is true that he's had trouble west of the mississippi but this was a big field. he's a first-time candidate. and the strength and breadth of his victories last night leave him in a great position. i believe if he loses indiana, the math isn't clear, assuming cruz and kasich could keep the momentum going. if indiana is a one-off, it won't matter. but trump last night showed that he is a national candidate within the republican party and he's not, as steve schmidt suggested, not a normal candidate for the clintons to run against. so while he's got a lot of work to do, he has proven that he is an unusual candidate in an unusual time. >> mark halperin, put your phone on airplane mode. thank you so much for calling in. we greatly appreciate it. i think this is the think that as we look at signs that the media and the political class in washington missed, i think the

nate cohen article in "the new york times" a couple of months ago that showed the pockets of trump's strength and his two strongest places were upstate new york and alabama, with west virginia sprinkled in. >> that's weird. >> and then you looked early on and you saw the demographic breakup. steve schmidt has been used to it for years. i've been used to it for years. you have your conservative candidate and you have your moderate candidate. and trump from the very early, it was like ghostbusters. they were crossing -- >> crossing the wires. >> crossing the wires. you had the same people -- you had like 30% of conservatives supporting him, 30% of moderates supporting him, 30% of very conservative -- it's always been hard to nail this guy down. >> he's got a conventional candidate, he's not a usual candidate. he does sort of scramble the traditional coalitions. he does take positions that are at odds with republican orthodoxy, something the party

will have to deal with at some point. maybe those early signs you could have looked past. i don't see how you look past pennsylvania. i don't see how you look past 57% in pennsylvania yesterday. a big, diverse bunch of republicans. >> again, as they say, as carville always said, you've got a diverse state that is philadelphia on one side, pittsburgh on the other and alabama in the middle. >> right. and it's close to that. but there are all kinds of republicans in pennsylvania. >> yes, there are. >> you've got some evangelicals but not -- that doesn't dominate. you've got moderates and suburban and rural. you've got everybody. >> so interesting. >> so the question of the hour is since it looks like trump is moving to 1,237, and i've gone through this in my mind time and time again, just a political guy trying to figure out, if you could take it all the way back to the beginning of the calendar, what could you do differently to stop donald

trump. and the question is, was the celebrity just so big, was his ability -- >> that it was unstoppable. >> was his ability to manipulate the media just so advanced that he was just unstoppable. or if you could turn the clock back to last june, how would you stop donald trump? i would give you any of the 17 candidates, pick one. >> i was doing a long interview yesterday with a reporter and we walked through the strategy. i think the strategy of the cruz campaign was right. that was you started with the tea party base. nobody really ran on that base. walker could have, rubio could have, rand could have. there's lots of people who ran on the tea party base but left it alone. cruz announces at liberty university in an attempt to play in another bracket, the evangelical bracket. then he was in rand's bracket and he pretty much consolidated that bracket very well. the idea was that you would go against the establishment candidate and you would have enough to win. that was all true. except that donald trump, who is a celebrity candidate -- remember, he never called his

supporters -- he called them fans. he didn't say they were voters, he didn't say they were citizens. he always called them fans. but he's right about that. when you attack, and this is what a lot of the candidates learned. when you attack a fan, the fans double down. they don't say, oh, i'm not for taylor swift anymore. they say the heck with you. and so that's what happened. and i think ted cruz's idea that i'm not going to attack donald trump, because you have to do this in a critical path. they have to know your name, they have to like you, they have to know what you're about and then you get to the contrast phase. if you step out of order, you're going to get run over because this guy has 98% name i.d. and people like him. >> yeah. >> all right. >> did ted cruz do it out of order? >> no, i think he did it in the right order. but as you say, the monster celebrity was just overwhelming. >> what's happening at 4:00? >> stop it. >> rick tyler, thank you. >> you know? you know.

>> steve schmidt, thanks a lot. rick, thank you for putting up with this. she's got cruz derangement syndrome. up next, the speaker of the house, paul ryan, joins us live here from capitol hill. >> you'd better be nice to paul. wish your skin could bounce back like it used to? neutrogena hydro boost water gel. with hyaluronic acid it plumps skin cells with intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin. hydro boost. from neutrogena it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... try boost® 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. and it's available in two new flavors, vanilla caramel and double chocolate fudge. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®.

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i think the polls basically say seven out of ten americans think that america is headed in the wrong direction. okay. then as a member of congress, it is not our job simply to say we are just as angry as the rest of everybody else. it is not our job just to put gas on the fire. it is our job to channel this concern, this fear, this anxiety, this anger, into solutions. into ideas on how to fix it. >> with us now from capitol hill to expand on those ideas, speaker of the house, republican congressman paul ryan of wisconsin. so, paul, are you -- >> he's making a speech today. >> what do you think he's going to say? >> i don't know. >> i am running for president? so are you tired of that question yet, paul? >> yes, i am.

>> so why are you making all these speeches? >> good morning, mika and the guys. i am making these speeches because i told people i would do this job differently. i would make this more of a communications speakership to communicate our vision, our ideas, our agenda. that's precisely what i'm doing. the reason i'm doing this is because we need to convert from being seen as just an opposition party to being a proposition party, a solutions party. that's why we're putting this agenda together so that in the fall, in 2016, the people of this nation will have a very clear choice to make and this is what we think we owe people. if you don't like the direction we're going, we should say here's how we should do it differently. >> paul, let's talk about trump last night, obviously won over 50% a lot of places. he has a message that goes against a lot of republican oth orthodoxy on trade, on taxes, on immigration. can you explain, you've had to deal with strange people like me and matt salmon -- >> it was good practice. >> and others for years.

it's good practice. but there has always been this populist strain. i've known you since you were 23, 24. there's always been this populist strain in the republican party and guys like me carried it back in '95 but we always figured out a way to work together. i'm not being a cheerleader here, but can you explain how trump's positions aren't so shocking and why you can work together with him? >> i think we can work together, by the way, joe. and i've -- no matter who our nominee is going to be, ike we're going to be able to work together quite well. the agenda is economic growth, patient-centered health care, moving people from welfare to work and fighting poverty, fixing our national security and restoring the constitution and self-government. making government more accountable. these unify all republicans, all conservatives and i believe are appealing to discerning democrats and independents. whoever our nominee is going to be i believe will be comfortable with those things. by the way, i've spoken to donald trump, ted cruz, john kasich and they are all very

understanding, familiar with and comfortable with where we are going. we decided last year before this got started this is what we were going to do. it's one of the reasons why i took the job as speaker. this is where we're going, this is what we're going to communicate. it's going to be an agenda, we're going to give people a choice. the key for populism, joe, as you well know because you practiced this, how do you take this populism and connect it to principle so that its populism tethered to good principles which give us good solutions, not unprincipled populism and that to me is our value add to this equation. >> so are you concerned, because we've heard whispers out of the house and the senate, people are concerned with donald trump at the top of the ticket that it will threaten the republican majority in the house and the senate. just speak for the house side. do you think donald trump on the top of the ticket would threaten the republican majority? >> i don't think conventional wisdom works this time, this year anymore. the one thing we can predict is it's op unpredictable. the way i look at elections, you

always act as if everything is in doubt and in danger. never rest on your laurels, never feel complacent or comfortable. the day you do that is the day you probably should lose. that is why i really do believe whoever our nominee is going to be, we are capable of unifying, providing a unifying front to the country and i think that's going to be good for the house, good for the senate and good for winning the white house. so i think that's what we're going to do after we come out of cleveland, whoever our nominee is going to be. >> mr. speaker, it appears that donald trump is the presumptive nominee for your party. you're going to be putting the platform together in cleveland. do you sense any difficulty or any dissent on two specific issues in dealing with donald trump, whose views might be a little askew from main line republican thinking as it is today, on health care, on replacing obamacare with a specific replacement policy that's set out and articulated by the candidate, and on tax

reform. those two things. do you sense any elements of disagreement? >> i actually don't. i'm familiar with his tax reform plan, which is lower rates across the board for everybody and all businesses for faster economic growth. we will have a good debate about how to do that, but if from what i recall from his plan, it's basically that. on health care, he knows we need to repeal and replace obamacare. so look, i don't see a big problem here. this is barnicle talking, right? >> yeah. >> mike, i don't see a big issue with that. we have lots of different views but come from the same principles. the principle for tax reform is get the cronyism out of the code, give people more power, lower rates, make us more competitive for faster growth of the and on health care, but the patient in charge. let she and her doctor be in charge of deciding their health care. give people more choices, more insurance competition. and i believe these principles when applied to this problem offer better solutions.

and i think, again, whoever one of these three become our nominee, i think they're going to be comfortable with this. so i'm really not that worried about it. >> that would be dr. hutter, right? >> that's right. >> mr. speaker, gene robinson here. the context here, though, is that donald trump would be a controversial nominee. a lightning rod for all sorts of passionate views, pro and con. what is your practical advice to your members? is it to get in line behind the nominee or will your advice be, you know, run for the hills, every man and woman for themselves? >> gene, i'm going to stick with what we planned on doing last october and what we put in place in january. when we had 17 presidential candidates. and that is we are going to be offering an agenda to the country. we'll be rolling it out before cleveland, by the way. what do you replace obamacare with, how do you grow the

economy, how do you move people from poverty, from welfare to work, how do you restore the constitution in effective, accountable government. i think these things unify us. this is what we're going to be talking about, this is what we're going to be presenting. so we here in congress are going to be offering an agenda, not unlike what they did in 1994 with a contract. this is what we need with a unified government to put in place to fix the country and get us on the right track. we made this decision, gene, well before the presidential got started and we're still on the same track, we're on the same plan. and i do believe that whoever our nominee is going to be is going to be somebody that is comfortable with this based on my conversations with these gentlemen. >> all right. speaker, paul ryan, thank you so much for being with us. if you just tuned in, you missed paul said that he was going to stage a bloody fight at the convention. >> big announcement today. >> and that he was going to be president of the united states. >> he was going to get the nomination. >> this is how rumors get started, you know. so knock it off. >> and name taylor swift as his vice president.

tip of the hat to the celebrity. paul, congratulations. the agenda is exciting and go, brewers. >> brewers and cubs. >> thanks, paul. we'll be following your town hall today. >> thank you for not asking him a mean ted cruz question. >> with millennials at georgetown university. >> oh, that's great. by the way, you said something while paul ryan was speaking. >> we haven't been honest here. >> you said that he would do great -- you said he would do great against any democrat. >> my instinct is, yeah, he would do very well. >> i think palm is a contender. in the future. >> what do you think? >> i'm not so sure. i'm not so sure. he didn't have a huge impact last time around. >> yeah. >> he is a great face for the republican party. >> we'll talk about that tomorrow. >> we only have three hours. that does it for us this morning. >> you're screaming at us. >> steve kornacki picks up the coverage after a quick break. >> why is he being so rude. >> because it's time to go. >> all i want to do is help.

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