governor. and if ted cruz isn't winning in indiana, it's going to be hard for him to make the argument that he'll have the momentum to stop trump in california and other states to follow. >> that's going to do it for our coverage this hour. i'm steve kornacki and "mtp daily" starts right now. ♪ if it's friday, it's another day of anti-trump protests and unrest. we hadn't seen it in a while. but now, is this a taste of what's to come? both in california and the general election ahead. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good friday evening, i'm chuck todd in washington. a town that is getting ready for its nerd prom, but this is no prom picture here. you're looking at live pictures out of burlingame, california,

and what has been a chaotic and a bit tension-filled scene. this afternoon, protesters descended on the republican convention where donald trump has just finished speaking to attendees there. this was the scene a few hours ago. demonstrators broke through police barricades outside the front entrance as trump's motorcade approached the venue. skirmishes continued from there. while that was happening, trump's security detail had to escort him through a back entrance to the venue, and this is how he addressed it while he addressed the california convention. >> that was not the easiest entrance i've ever made. [ laughter ] my wife called, she said there are helicoptering following you, and we did, and then we went under a fence and through a fence. oh, boy, felt like i was crossing the border, actually, you know. [ laughter ] i was crossing the border. but i got here.

these are the pictures from a fe few moments ago. trump left the same way he came in, through the side door, away from the protesters. now as this was all unfolding, ted cruz was holding a press conference with reporters where he decided a way in on the trump inspired unrest. >> the first amendment protects everyone's right to speak, but you don't have a right to threaten violence, you don't have a right to shout down others. and these protesters appear to be trying to use violence and threats. these are the strategies of move on, of the left-wing agitators to try to silence a voice they don't like. if you disagree with a particular voice, the way to deal with it is with civil discourse, with respectful discourse. >> for the trump campaign, it was the second day of skirmishes, after an you'ugly s outside a rally in costa mesa.

as police tried to push protesters out of the streets. steve patterson has been standing by in burlingame right now. steve, it looks like it's a lot calmer now than it was even just 20 minutes ago when you and i were sharing the air waves. >> reporter: it has cooled significantly. but tensions remain high. the police have pushed the line forward, moving the media, moving anybody that's caught between us and the protesters back out of the area. i want to show you back there right now. you can see the protesters have gathered. a lot of them have their hands up in protest, but every few minutes or so, police will push back. and back and back. and the hope is to add enough police presence here to finally push the protesters out of the area. the protesters, meanwhile, they don't want to leave. that quip about crossing the border that you told us from trump. that's exactly the sort of rhetoric that they're upset about. and they're here to announce that. one protesters said that, being about what it would be like if

trump was the presumptive nominee. think of how intense these protests that would be. so their plan from the beginning, some of the protesters in the crowd, was to instagate something. to draw some sort of confrontation, to meet trump face to face, to try to block him from either getting in or coming out. and whether or not they were successful about that, they could care less. they're here to make a statement and that's what they're doing here today. chuck? >> and steve, what is the statement? there were no specifics. what is that statement. >> reporter: the statement is directed towards the rhetoric that trump has been putting out there against immigration, against customs, mainly against the wall. you see there in the video, the mexican flags. you hear it in the chants against trump and against his rhetoric. but also it's really against not only trump, but also the police presence that's here.

also against cruz. also against the gop establishment. also against anybody that could come to the convention like this. so they're here for everybody. >> there's a long list of agrievement there, it sounds like. steve patterson, thanks very much. we're going to check in with the trump campaign in a few minutes, but let me bring in two correspondents from the field who happen to be here. there's not something that we're talking about here, kasie hunt, and hallie jackson. very quickly, hallie, let me go to you. >> sure. >> you've been on the trail with the protesters. does it seem ramped up, more california centric? >> it does, more california centric. he's in the bay area, so, yes, this is what we're going to see. covering the different candidates, you see it so much more at trump events, rather than a cruz event. and i think it speaks to just how some in liberal circles see

trump's comments as so divisive. >> and the more polarizing a candidate is, the more you'll see protests. i'm curious, kasie, how often did you see protesters with bernie sanders? >> every once in a while we had peta show up, but it was very rare. marco rubio would draw dreamers and immigration protesters on a fairly regular basis approximate. >> >> and that was a professional campaign. >> yeah. >> and i think this is a consequence of the campaign moving into blue states. >> feels like a california thing. let me pause with you two. you're coming back, but we were getting sam clovis miked up. policy adviser to the trump campaign. i think some people got a glimpse of us getting him prepared for television. welcome back to the show, sir. >> thank you, chuck. great to be with you. >> let me start with what we saw out there with the protests.

does that concern you that wherever trump goes, particularly in blue states, that he attracts a larger share of protesters than most other candidates? >> i couple of things strike me about this. it's obviously a concerted effort, and people who want to violate the law, want the united states, the government, to continue to turn a blind eye to the law. and all that we've been saying all along is we want to reinforce the rule of law, and the rule of law says that you cannot come into this country illegally. and that's essentially what we've been saying. that's not racist. that's not anything. that actually attaches itself to the value treasured the most by the american people, and that's the rule of law. >> but the rhetoric that donald trump used at the beginning, disparaging, saying that mexico sends over their rapists, that's what has offended some of those

people. >> so that's an excuse for this kind of behavior? >> i'm not making an excuse. but i'm telling you, the heated rhetoric, does your campaign own any responsibility? >> well, again, we don't see this type of behavior except in places where we have people that are high concentration of people who violated the law, who are there organizing themselves to go out here and disrupt political process. this is free speech. we're not there to try to disrupt them. we're not there to go and take a look at -- we haven't ptested any of bernie sanders or hillary clinton's, not from the right. so this clearly is a tactic of the left, and it's a concerted by the left, funded by the left. i don't know what other conclusion we can draw, but it seems to be a tactic that we're going to disrupt free speech in

this country. >> do you have a concern more so about the convention than you did yesterday? >> didn't hear that. >> do you have a concern about how the convention is going to go in cleveland? we have been wondering how are the delegates are going to handle each other. are you concerned about the atmosphere outside of the convention. i do think there are concerns, if we have activity outside of the convention. i think that it will raise the tension levels inside. but i also think that once you're inside the convention hall, anybody that's ever been to a convention, a national political convention, knows that it's a safe haven, because typically protesters don't get in to those venues. the security is very good and very strict. the issue then becomes access to the venue. and i think the people in cleveland or the police in cleveland, the secret service, a lot of the other law enforcement agencies in ohio are going to be on high alert, because this is very much, could be an issue.

i don't know if you remember tampa, chuck, but you remember how far away we had to park and how far we had to go to get to the venue this. i mean, it was like almost a mile that we had to park away, that's a long way to walk through a sea of protesters if they so chose to be disruptive and i think that's a concerning issue. >> let me ask you about the state of the primary campaign. are you operating as if you could still lose the primary, or are you starting to focus on the general election? >> no, i think we're still concentrating on the primary. we don't have this nomination in the bag, and i think we're going to continue to go out here and work delegates. in fact, i had a conversation this morning with somebody about this very issue. i work a lot of other issues. so the tactical aspects of the campaign, i don't always get involved in. i do get back-briefed on it, and we're still very much focused on wrangling delegates, because we

don't have this thing won. and until we have this thing won, and we have it there, i think we're going to concentrate on the primary process. >> do you believe if donald trump wins indiana, that john kasich and ted cruz should get out? >> well, i think that there's -- it becomes very difficult tr th -- for them to make the case that either one of them should be the nominee of the party. and certainly john kasich's case is the weakest. i think what we've seen from senator cruz, you know, and all of the things he'd tried to do this week, i really think he's looking at indiana as really the fire-breaker, or as some people characterize it, the alamo, not sure i'd go that far. but certainly it's a fire-break for him and if he doesn't win indiana and win it decisively, i really think his case for becoming the nominee is extremely weak. >> sam clovis, national co-chair for the trump campaign, thanks

for coming on. appreciate it, sir. >> chuck, always good to talk to you. thanks for having me today. >> you got it. let me bring back hallie and kasie here. i thought sam clovis said something donald trump hadn't said. trump called himself the presumptive nominee, and sam clovis said we don't have it locked up. that was cautious. >> it is. and paul manafort said it was sewn up on tuesday, and they didn't need to win indiana for it to be locked up. but i think that's a reflection of him not wanting to be presumptive. >> got be careful. and the other big news today, mike pence sort of endorsing -- >> what would you call it? >> it is an announcement of who he was going to vote for in the primary. and at the same time, he wanted to make sure people knew he was not going to disparage donald trump. >> so i think it's both personal and it's political for governor

pence, because he's facing his own re-election fight coming up. he doesn't want to alienate trump supporters. if trump is the nominee, he wants to continue to be able to work with him. our political unit fuld the favorability ratings. he has favorability with 71%, but he's under water among moderates, so that could be a concern for ted cruz. although, to be honest, i don't think we'll see governor pence campaigning much for cruz over the next four days. >> he's not campaigning. that's the situation here. do these protests hurt donald trump? where does it hurt him politically? no, short-term, yes in the long-term? >> i think in the long-term, it has the possibility to. but i think only because if this gets to a point where the greater republican party suddenly feels like it's even more untenable than it already was somehow, that it's feeding into an atmosphere that's on the whole, negative for the country. you think about all these candidates who have to run in

blue states. ohio, pennsylvania, if this starts to really affect the overall kind of atmosphere that these candidates are operating in, yeah, it could be. >> but then there's the opposite effect -- >> in the short-term. >> right. i think it only helps trump with his supporters. >> absolutely. >> but could it be that republicans who are not fans of trump are saying, wait a minute, they're being overly disruptive and this is not fair and serves as a way to rally around him? >> and what ted cruz said two hours ago at a presser. >> trying to disparage trump everywhere he can but not on this. saying the liberal activists trying to stop trump not right. thank you both. enjoy your days back on the road. >> thank you. we'll continue to monitor the situation in california. the candidate has left the building. i don't know if all the protesters are aware that there's nobody left to protest

right now. but if there's more breaking news, we'll bring it to you as it happens. but coming up, first u.s. death from the zika virus. we'll talk to dr. anthony fouchy from nih about what we all need to know when it comes to zika. and later, donald trump and hillary clinton, we'll turn to the battleground states for election day projections. stay tuned. great. correct! ma'am. this isn't an automated computer... operator! ma'am. i'm here. i'm live. wait. you're real? yeah. with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s. day or night. plus, we're not going to waste your time trying to sell you a bunch of other products you don't really need. that is really nice of you. i feel really bad about shouting at you. oh, you weren't shouting. you were just speaking in all caps. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell. unless you have allergies. flonase is the first and only nasal spray approved to relieve both itchy, watery eyes and congestion.

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while we continue to follow the trump protests in california, this afternoon there were dozens of protesters who broke down barricades outside the california hotel where the cannot was speaking. police are working to peacefully clear things out. the candidate has left. we'll bring you any updates if there's anything worthy. one of millions of orders on this company's servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the

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goss is some serious news out here today. the u.s. has reported the first death from someone infected with the zika virus. this is a mosquito-born disease that has been linked to serious birth defects and paralysis. now the center for disease control confirms that a puerto rican man in his '70s died from internal bleeding, caused by a rare immune reaction to the zika virus. the cdc has placed puerto rico on a practiced enhanced precautions alert and advises pregnant women not to travel to the territory. now there's no vaccine or medicine for zika. the obama administration has asked congress to approve an extra $1.9 billion in emergency funds to address the zika virus, but there hasn't been any action yet. there's been discussion, there's extra ebola money, use that.

we'll see how the politics sorts that out. there are already 426 cases reported in the united states of zika. they're all travel associated and none are locally acquired just yet. senator marco rubio said it's just a matter of time when it does happen. >> it's just a matter of time before someone in florida gets bit by a mosquito, days, weeks, hours, you'll open up the newspaper or turn on the news and it it's going to say someone in the united states was bit by a mosquito and contracted zika. and everyone's going to freak out. >> dr. fouchy, welcome back, sir. let me just start with your reaction simply to what senator rubio just said. how likely is it that somebody in florida is gonna get bit and is gonna get this virus. >> it is likely. as we get more and more travel related cases. the likelihood that there will

be someone being bitten by a mosquito who was in south america, came to the united states, then someone bit that person and bit someone who never left the country is the definition of a locally acquired and local outbreak, as small as it might be. and i think that's likely, and the reason it's likely, we have similar experience with other infections that are transmitted by exactly the same mosquito, namely, dengue and chikungunya which has been in south carolina for some time. in the past, we've had small local outbreaks of dengue and chikungunya. now, fortunately, by aggressive mosquito control and the conditions that we have this in country, we were able to prevent the local outbreaks from becoming sustained and disseminated. hopefully we'll be able to do that and and i think it's more when than if, before we get a

local outbreak of zika in the continental united states. we just need to be prepared for it. >> you sound as if we're waiting for that to happen and then we'll try to control the mosquito population. what should we be doing now? >> no. right now, 3there's a lot of plans going on to do just that. there was a summit on april 1st, run by the cdc, bringing in all the health authorities, establishing a zika action plan to, do the kinds of things that you're referring to, chuck. namely, be prepared to start doing things now, right now before we get it. that's what everyone is doing. anticipating this is being able to be prepared for it. >> there's a lot of fear of the unknown on this. and i'll be honest with you, there's more chatter about zika, probably more so in our newsroom than any other, because we're also the network that's going to be with the olympics. i have a lot of colleagues that are headed to south america, to rio in the coming months.

here's what everybody fears, do we know anymore about how long this virus stays in your system? if a man gets bitten, how easily can they pass on the virus to a woman, to then -- and then it results with a child with birth defects? and how long does it stay in someone's system? >> sure. >> all of those things we don't know. >> these are questions we have some answers to. it's questions that we do have some answers to. and the more we learn, the more we'll be definitive about it. first of all, in an uncomplicated situation, if i got infected, or if a woman who was not pregnant got infected, the virus lasts in your system, in your blood, literally for about seven days, to at the most, 10 or 12 days. with a man, there's a possibility, and we've seen documentation of it, of it being sequestered in the semen, so that it could last for a period of time.

we don't know how often that happens and we don't know what the length of time is, but we know it can be considerable, up to 62 days, in one example. so that's facts that we do know. if a woman gets infected and not pregnant, the question we get asked all the time, if i get infected now, and i want to get pregnant six months or a year from now, is there a problem? and the answer is no, for the following reason. there's no evidence that there's going to be persistence of the virus in a woman for a period of time beyond the acute infection. but just to be doubly sure, the recommendation for women is that if they go down to an area with the possibility of being infected, that they wait at least eight weeks before they try to get pregnant. for a man who goes down and gets infected and is known to be infected, or has the symptoms, that person should use a condom for at least six months or refrain from sex.

>> that s that's a situation that is a recommendation. if you go down there and you don't know you got infected, you should probably wait about eight weeks. those are the cdc recommendations. >> and what are the chances that we're going to have some sort of inoculation for this? >> a vaccination, chuck, is something that's going to take some time. we've been very active in starting to develop a vaccine. we will have a vaccine in an early phase one trial in humans by the -- i would say september at the latest, hopefully of 2016. that would be a phase one trial. that doesn't mean it's going to be able for anyone to use. it's testing if it's safe and if it induces the kind of response that would be protective. that would take four to six months to show that. if it looks safe, that we can move ahead, in the first quarter

of 2017, we'll do a very large efficacy trial to see if it works. can't predict how long that will take. there are a number of factors that would influence. we're already on the road to getting a vaccine. >> and it sounds like in an expedited way, considering how many are concerned. dr. fouchy, i appreciate your time here this afternoon. >> good to be with you, chuck. and stay with msnbc for more on the push for debt relief for puerto rico. chris hayes is going to talk to hamilton creator lin-manuel miranda. as you found out, puerto rico's debt crisis is impacting their health care system which could get overwhelmed by zika. all of that at 8:00 p.m. tonight. up ahead, we'll crank up the delegate machine and talk november. plus, we'll look ahead to the

final white correspondents dinner of president obama's term. this is "mtp daily," we'll be right back. (war drums beating) fight heartburn fast. with tums chewy delights. the mouthwatering soft chew that goes to work in seconds to conquer heartburn fast. tum tum tum tum. chewy delights. only from tums.

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it's covered by most health plans. still ahead on "mtp daily," we're going to look at the battleground map and what it might look like between trump and clinton. we'll see, how red is the red and how blue is the blue and will there be more purple states than before. but first the cnbc market wrap. >> stocks staging a bit of a comeback at the close. dow ends down 57 points after falling more than 170 points earlier in the session. the s&p sinking by 10. the nasdaq losing 29 points. lower pump prices from chevron with a revenue drop 32%. same for exxon mobil, posting

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well, the candidate left the california republican convention quite a while ago, donald trump. but the protesters have not left. police have been trying to get them to disperse, they won't. so now some action is being taken. let's check in with steve patterson, our correspondent on the ground. so, steve, the protesters are not dispersing, despite the fact that trump might even be airborne by now. >> reporter: they are. and the police have declared an unlawful assembly, they gave several warnings for the protesters to move out. they established a new police line, pushed people out of the

venue. and then moments ago, there was another eruption of violence. we're not sure what happened, but it looked like batons were out, a person was on the ground and that in moments he was put in cuffs and taken away. we saw at least one person, there may be another one somewhere within the crowd that was also reprimanded for whatever they were doing to instigate this sudden outburst, whatever it was. so police continue to take action against a crowd that is not stopping. now, i will say the crowd has gotten significantly smaller, but they are still tense. send it back to you. >> all right, steve, and i guess one more question there, is it protesters arguing with police, or protesters arguing amongst themselves. >> reporter: both. mainly it's protesters yelling in the face of police and also turning on each other. but it's clear that the people who remain here, largely are the instigators that we've been seeing all day. >> all right, steve patterson,

who is covering these protests outside the california republican convention site where donald trump spoke about an hour ago. he has since left and the last remaining protesters are trying to be dispersed by the police officers. >> meantime, we are four days until indiana goes to the polls and we'll see whether indiana is truly the fire wall that ted cruz hopes that it is. >> the cruz campaign does seem to know that if they don't win there, it may be all over. they won't say it quite that way, but they have dealt perhaps their last hand in the hoosier state against trump today. they got indiana governor mike pence to announce that he will vote for cruz in the primary, but folks, this was one of the most luke-warm endorsements you will ever hear. >> i particularly want to commend donald trump, who i think has given voice to the frustration of millions of working americans. i'm also particularly grateful that donald trump has taken a

strong stand for hoosier jobs. i've come to my decision about who i'm supporting, and i'm not against anybody, but i will be voting for ted cruz in the upcoming republican primary. >> pence is up for re-election. he's one of the few -- indiana is one of about a dozen states that hold their gubernatorial election on the presidential year. with time un running out, where does cruz go from here? i spoke with him today. here's a snippet. >> if you don't win indiana, do you get out of the race? >> indiana is an important state. we're barn storming the state. we're on a bus tour, heidi and the girls and carly. and i will say this, indiana has a chance to choose, do we want to support a campaign that is based on yelling and screaming and cursing and insults?

or do we want to unify behind a positive, optimistic, forward-looking, conservative campaign, based on real policy solutions -- >> so if indiana rejects you, they're rejecting that argument, are they not? >> i don't think so. there's a reason governor mike pence offered his support. he's hearing from hoosiers across the state that don't want a campaign that is based on yelling and bullying. they want real solutions. >> you're going to hear a lot more of my interview with senator ted cruz sunday on "meet the press." meanwhile, i'm joined by a former communications director for the indiana republican party. by the way, full disclosure, also a consultant for the kasich campaign, although apparently they're not campaigning in indiana anymore. welcome back to the show, sir. >> thank you, chuck. thanks for having me. >> and let me confirm that.

you're a consultant for the kasic campaign. what does that mean in indiana? >> as you mentioned, it's a dormant campaign at the moment, so there's really not much to do. although to be honest, i've been busier since the campaign shifted west, fielding calls from fine folks like you. >> i am curious, did you already vote? do you feel as if and if you haven't, are you telling people even if you support kasich to support cruz? >> i have voted and i voted for john kasich, which seems to be the case across the board are if -- for a lot of people. if you look at the first statewide poll that came out, 22% for john kasich. the poll that came out today, 21%. according to those two, he's holding firm with his support. >> is that good or bad, as far as your concerned? >> well, if folks can make their strategic decision and if they want to vote for ted cruz, they're free to do that. no one is telling them what to do.

but i think what you're seeing here is the problem that some people, especially in the donut counties around indianapolis have with ted cruz. they find it hard to stomach voting for him, even though they understand the strategic implications of making that vote. >> are you willing to accept the idea that if trump wins indiana on tuesday, he's the nominee? >> well, i've said it, we're going to have a pretty clear picture on may 3rd, if not the morning of may 4th, depending how long it takes to count the votes. we'll have a pretty clear picture of whether or not he'll get to 1,237. >> why was governor pence's, i guess you want to call it an endorsement, so tepid? >> usually that's what i ask you. you're supposed to explain those things to me. but i think because it's mike pence. we know here on the ground, that's just the kind of guy he is. he doesn't want to ruffle too many feathers. he wants to keep the peace. whereas he's going to vote for ted cruz on tuesday, he didn't want to upset people who he needs to his side in his tough

re-election campaign as well. >> it's a decision i think we see a lot of republican office holders, who believe they'll face voters in a republican primary again someday, they want to be very careful how they treat donald trump. thanks for coming on. >> thanks, chuck. we'll be right back. we'll look at trump versus clinton, the first november map of sorts, now that we think we know what the general election is is gonna look like. we'll be right back. encil. i've been a forensic artist for over 30 years. i do the composite sketches which are the bad guy sketches. you need good resolution, powerful processor because the computer has to start thinking as fast as my brain does. i do this because i want my artwork to help people. [martha and mildred are good to. go. here's your invoice, ladies.

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both donald trump and hillary clinton seem to be turning their focus towards each other in the general election. kristen welker reports the clinton campaign is beginning to deploy operatives to general election battleground states over the past couple of weeks, trump staffers touted their unique ability they believe to win some swing states and flip some unusual blue states. perhaps places like new jersey and pennsylvania, for instance. so let's take a look at how a clinton/trump face-off could look. we'll use the 2012 map as a starting point. obama won almost every state that could be considered a swing state except really north carolina. one of our electoral math gu rus, who runs the center for politics, here's his most recent

look at the moment. he has clinton with a big lead already, getting every state president obama carried in 2012, plus north carolina. so he has her at 347 electoral votes and the republicans under 200. which i believe would be the first time we've had that since '64. larry sab doe, welcome to the show. >> thank you, chuck. >> if i'm donald trump, that's a pretty grim map that you have going. you essentially give him not only no shots in any of the swing states, but you don't give him any credit for their talking point, which says, hey, they might do better than a romney in michigan, than a romney did in pennsylvania, than a romney did in new jersey. explain. you know, it's april and this is the season of day dreams by presidential candidates about their fall prospects. chuck, the reason why i think you can do an early electoral map between hillary clinton and

donald trump is because not only do both have a hundred percent name i.d., but most americans who will end up voting can actually tell you some important things about them. which is rare. i don't think you could do this kind of map with hillary clinton and ted cruz. and look, i ask one question of those who say that trump will carry pennsylvania, or i think you just mentioned new jersey of all places, where's the evidence? where's the proof. it certainly hasn't come in the primaries. he's not driving hundreds of thousands of democrats into the republican party. there is no evidence for that. >> i thought what was fascinating, you don't think there's anything that's toss-up. explain your definition of what you have when you decide a state is toss-up. why don't you have any toss-ups on your map? >> well, we purposely pushed every state in one direction or

another. to give a dramatic result and to be honest, i didn't see any state that really qualified as being 50/50, even north carolina. if there was one that i would have picked, it would have been north carolina. the other ones seemed to be tilting pretty substantially in one direction. that's not to say that hillary clinton or her team should pretend that there is going to be a landslide. you know, lyndon johnson took barry goldwater very seriously and ran a first-rate campaign. nixon took mcgovern very seriously. as it turned out, much too seriously and ran a very serious campaign that included watergate. but you don't do that and i don't think the clinton team will. but that's where it stands right now. >> i know you're a big reader of first street and mark and i put out a thesis today that said, we have seen the clinton/trump election, where two unpopular

figures, who look like neither one of them can win unless they face the other, it was the virginia governors race in 2013. mcauliffe and cuccinelli, both with very high unfavorable ratings and you ended up with a libertarian candidate. when did you start factoring that aspect? republicans came home enough for cuccinelli to make it close. you add the third-party candidate. when that happens, how do you think the map changes? >> well, when we get a third-party candidate who is serious, i'll produce a new map. >> that might get five or six, a protest type -- >> yeah, but remember that cuccinelli/mcauliffe contest was a very low turn-out, off-year election. this is going to be a very high turn-out, scorched-earth election and that tends to help

democrats particularly in a clinton/trump match-up. >> and two states that you hear democrats dreaming of in a trump match-up are georgia and arizona. you put them in the lean category. you clearly believe and we've both seen polling that shows they're certainly going to be competitive. the odds that you see those two swing and become blue in a clinton/trump election. >> well, the demographics are moving towards the democrats over time. will it happen in 2016? it could. i wouldn't bet on it today, but we've both seen the polls in utah and mississippi that show a clinton/trump match-up to be a tie. that really gets your attention. >> it does. if hillary clinton carries utah, that would be quite the story on election night. but if she's carrying utah, we probably will have called the presidency before then. >> we'll be in bed. >> pleasure to talk with you. >> thank you, chuck. we'll be right back with

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the washington post today, the time has come to admit that republican voters want donald trump as their nominee. you see that. good writer. that's pretty good. washington post reporter. president for american progress.

>> definitely not as good as chris. >> i don't think donald trump would think you're a good writer these days. i think you're a card carrying member of the stop trump movement. >> i don't think he's right for the country or the republican party. >> i was just going to say is there a moment where as a republican, no matter what you personally think, if the voters are saying one thing, is it your duty, it seems like mike pence fell into that. it's almost your duty to acknowledge it. >> we saw that with the pennsylvania delegates. many of them who are not trump fans but have futures in politics and say, if my district votes for him then i'll vote for him. let's get to the delegates. let's get the counts figured out and see if he has enough delegates to be the nominee. he will be the nominee of the party.

people will have to make their choice as to whether they will support him or not. if he's not, there's still a small chance he doesn't get there. >> do you buy what david brooks wrote today. he said this is a joe mccarthy moment. >> this is a moment of choosing. it's not just that, but if you appease trump or with trump, the implication is, this will be remember and you will get punished down the road. do you think that true? >> i honestly do not know. i think most politicians on the republican side, mike pence being the latest example clearly believe the opposite of that. that pence statement was clearly -- >> i think it depends. if this person is the nominee, how does he behave.

he won that year. i don't think trump will win. he doomed the party for 20 years. that's the question that david brooks is raising. will people be seen in future with trump or pro-trump. >> the risk of of confidence by democrats. >> i don't ever have that problem. maybe he does better with sanders supporters that cross over. some people that are so fed up and say let's burn the place

down. the question is whether he will bring more white working class voters than he repels. >> here is a how a candidate with bad numbers wins. he runs against a candidate with bad numbers. he's only slightly less popular than hillary clinton at this point. >> i'm a no trump defender. he's got terrible numbers with women. >> she's without question beatable. the question is you don't beat something with nothing. i think that's the republican's

party problem. you showed that map. look at the map. >> enjoy the weekend. don't overdo it. that's all. we'll be back monday. if it's sunday, don't forget "meet the press." with all due respect starts now. "with all due respect" to donald trump's path to the nomination, sometimes things can look like an obstacle course.