get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. ♪ and a good afternoon, i'm chris hayes, on a pivotal afternoon in american electoral politics. we were expecting the first exit polling from the state of indiana in an hour. three hours from now, all the polls will be closed. an early night in indiana. we could have a very clear picture of what the general election might look like. is america ready for a possible trump/clinton general election? in an exclusive interview with hillary clinton, we'll have that entire news-making interview

ahead. but this day really belongs, so far at least, to ted cruz, who is making headlines, as he fights for his political life in a press conference to remember. >> i'm going to do something i haven't done for the entire campaign. for those of y'all who have involved with me all across the country. i'm going to tell you what i really think of donald trump. this man say pathological liar. i say pathological, because i actually think, donald, if you hooked him up to a lie detector test. he could say one thing in the morning, one thing at noon and one thing in the evening, all contradictory and he'd pass the lie detector test each time. whatever lie he's telling at that minute, he believes it. but the man is utterly a moron. >> senator -- >> let me finish this, please. the man is utterly amoral. morality doesn't exist for him. donald trump is such a narcissist that barack obama looks at him and goes, dude, what's your problem?

donald trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. this is not a secret. he's proud of being a serial philanderer. describes his battles with venerrial disease as his own personal vietnam. donald will betray his supporters on every issue. if you care about immigration, donald is laughing at you. and he's telling the moneyed elites he doesn't believe what he's saying, he's not going to build a wall. that's what he told "the new york times". he will betray you on every issue across the board. if anyone has seen the movie "back to the future 2," the screen writer said he based the character biff on donald trump. a character of a giant brag docious bafoon who who builds

giant pictures of himself everywhere he looks. we are looking potentially at the biff tannen presidency. >> we begin with vaughn hillyard who was at the press conference. what's your reaction to what happened today? >> i think the bite that you led off with there, ted cruz said, perhaps you've been waiting for this sound bite for a while. it was ted cruz being honest, his full honest self about the way he viewed donald trump. he was hesitant to attack him and then finally, the press was standing, looking at one another, this is it. the part about this, for ted cruz, for a campaign that may potentially drop out tonight, which it's appearing he's already announced he's going to hold the rally in lincoln, nebraska and spokane, washington. but this isn't the way a campaign goes out. i want to play another bite from

that. >> i'll tell you as the father of two young girls, the idea of our daughters coming home and repeating any word that man says horrifies me. that is not who america is. and i would say to the hoosier state, the entire country is depending on you. the entire country is looking to you right now. it is only indiana that can pull us back. it is only the good sense and judgment of indiana that can pull us back. we are staring at the abyss. >> reporter: ted cruz is not holding back. when you say that indiana is the one thing keeping the country from going over the cliff and from the abyss, that is clearly a candidate that is not ready to give in to donald trump and ready to not support and unite around him. if you lose indiana, the race to

get to a contested convention becomes much more difficult. one of the things about this, heidi cruz, his wife was standing next to him. it was stark that her eyes welled up during this. as i was entering the building, ted cruz's motorcade was pulling into the parking lot. and there were about 100 fifth graders that were there to greet him. he jumped out of the car and went across the street. they weren't asking questions about donald trump, about delegates, about the convention. they wanted to give him a high-five. you go to these stops, town to town, and at some point, it becomes difficult, especially when the guy on the other side is the guy that you call amoral. >> vaughn hillyard, thanks so much for that. let's turn now to katie tur here in new york city, outside of trump towers, just a few blocks from here. well, in some ways, i think they probably are enjoying this, frankly, because they think

they're receiving this from a position of strength, is that your sense? >> reporter: all you have to do is read the statement that donald trump put out. it reads very much as if they are enjoying this. take a listen to part of it. ted cruz is a desperate candidate trying to save his failing campaign. it's no surprise he's resorted to his usual tactics of over-the-top rhetoric. and it's proves what i've been saying for a long time, ted cruz doesn't have the temperament to be the president of the united states. that sounds a lot like what people have been saying about donald trump this campaign, that he doesn't have the temperament to be the president. and for trump to throw that back at ted cruz, you have to imagine that the campaign certainly did enjoy that. the reality is, donald trump bringing up this internet rumor essentially that the national enquirer wrote about cruz's father appearing with lee harvey

oswald, that's what set this off this morning. and donald trump repeating that, it's just another time that he's done something like that in this campaign and frankly before it. a few years ago he was talking about how president obama was born in kenya, demanded to see his birth certificate. the other day in south carolina, and again the other day, he talked about general pershing dipping bullets in pig's blood and killing terrorists. that has been discredited as an internet rumor. he also tweeted false crime statistics earlier. he talked about muslims cheering in jersey city and nobody saw that and that was not thousands of muslims, and that was not documented on camera, despite the evidence presented to the contrary, donald trump never backs down from these claims, and it's part of why he's been such a tough candidate to go up against. because the reality is, his supporters don't seem to care if a lot of his claims are rooted in fact or if they're not rooted in fact. >> that's right. >> they like donald trump

regardless. so when he comes out with these truth-challenged statements, his competitors are pulling their hair out, trying to figure out how to respond and donald trump is enjoying the continued support of his base of followers who frankly refuse to leave him no matter what. >> katy, you get points for truth-challenged as an adjective to describe the statements. that is well put. we are in a post-fact campaign in 2016 america. welcome to it, katy tur, thanks so much. now to indianapolis, hamilton county could be a strong indicator of which republican will win tonight. i'm joined by tony dokoupil in the city of fishers. how's it looking over there? >> reporter: hi, chris. these aisles where the voters are walk being, 3 out of 4 of them coming down here, statistically speaking are republican voters. more republican votes are expected to be cast here today than anywhere else in the state of indiana. so could have a decisive impact

on the overall statewide vote. i came here because i thought it would be a challenge ground for donald trump. the demographic here, highly educated, very affluent, the most in the entire state. this should be kasich country, right? it's also a lot like the suburbs of milwaukee that was cruz country. so when i talk to voters, i expected all about kasich and cruz. but consistently today the word on people's minds, or the word that people are saying to us, donald trump, donald trump, donald trump. they want change, change, change. and that say key indicator of something that we haven't seen until just the last week. i was here last week as well. the establishment voter, the voter in this area is moving away from the traditional candidates in a final push and they're consolidating around donald trump, at least at this location and that's bad, bad news for anyone who remains in the never trump, not trump, stop trump movement. that's the indication i'm getting so far. just one color point. yesterday, donald trump had a rally in nearby carmel and the mayor of carmel is the co-chair

of the john kasich campaign here in indiana. he attended the rally and i called him on the phone a few minutes ago and said, what did you think? he said i'm still the campaign co-chair for kasich, but i have to say, donald trump, pretty charismatic guy. back to you. >> yeah, you can hear the clicking tiles of the dominoes falling across the hoosier state as we head into election day. tony, thank you very much for that. now to indiana's lake county, one of the few counties that president obama won in 2012. ron mott is at a polling location there in hammond, indiana, just over the illinois border. what's the scene like there, ron? >> reporter: hey there, chris. good afternoon to you. indiana has been 40 years since they've had this kind of national stage with their presidential primary. folks are turning out in pretty big numbers here. four years ago, about 18% voted on primary day. this year, they think they're going to double that and maybe even more, up to 40%.

we'll show you the scene inside. we can't talk to voters on the inside, but i'll give you a peek at what's going on here. they have four precincts voting in this location. we're at an elementary school. they believe the pace will be 8 to 10,000 voters per hour. right now there are more election workers in here than there are voters, but this morning, they were across the county, 8 to 10,000 per hour. that's go back outside. i think we might have a voter here who wants to tell usow she voted and she told us exactly that she has no shame in who she voted for. so what's your name? >> i'm sasha prior. >> reporter: and you voted? >> hillary clinton. >> reporter: how come? >> i just think that she will be a wonderful president. i like what she speaks on and everything, and i just think she'll do a great job. >> reporter: thanks for talking to us. so there you have it, chris, a very precinct today, back to

you. >> ron mott, appreciate that. let's bring in indiana political columnist for howie politics, indiana. elise jordan, former senior policy adviser for rand paul. and francesca from the white house daily mail. what is your reaction to the cruz monologue today? it seemed to me a set piece. it seemed to me they had set this up, that he was going to unleash this. i'm a little curious why you wait until today to do it and why you stop short of firing the final bullet in the chamber, which is that you won't support the guy in the general election? >> yeah, i'm not sure it's going to have much of an impact. we've had 278,000 hoosiers who early voted before the day even began. we had a lot of rain in the state earlier this morning. it's cleared off. we're getting reports of steady voting across the state. i think we're going to far out-pace any of the recent presidential primary election

years. and the cruz thing, i just think it came too late. i don't think it's really going to have much of an impact. clearly, he seems to be in big trouble here in this state. >> you've been watching with a mixture of bewilderment and horror as many have in sort of that -- the politics of the conservative republican party. what is your reaction to watching this final phase, of what feels like a final phase of this part of the contest? >> i really think it's the death of the modern republican party, that we're witnessing it. we've witnessed it the entire year in slow motion and now it's hit full speed, full throttle. and you'll start seeing a lot of the establishment coming over and accepting donald trump. and it really is very -- it's despicable that the principles of the party have been so abandoned. >> all this never trump stuff, i guess i can't tell how much that was a case, that there wasn't a huge mass constituency for that,

how much of that is geographical and how much of that is consolidation around the nominee? >> it started too little too late. this should have been when trump announced his candidacy, there should have been more opposition. he shouldn't have been allowed to be center stage on the debate stage. he got that platform for week after week after week. he really was the way that this election was handled, you know, it's disgraceful. and i'm very sad about it. >> francesca, there was the fact today that ted cruz was sort of unloading came after donald trump in a sort of classic donald trumpism, as katy tur mentioned, the man baselessly, perhaps on some internet rumor that the man's father was possibly involved in the presidential assassination of jfk. which is a preposterous thing for a major party presidential nominee to say, but shows to me,

he is not, there's no behavioral change in this individual as he gets closer to becoming a major party nominee. >> and that seemed to be what finally set ted cruz off today, chris. he finally just unloaded, as you were saying, on donald trump, for all the things that donald trump has said throughout the race about him. you know, lying ted is the biggest one that he's thrown at him. and this national enquirer thing was the latest one. so while it may seem too little too late for what he did today, it was set off by something that donald trump did today as cruz tries to win indiana, throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks. first he teamed up with john kasich. then announcing a running mate, making it a woman, standing next to carly fiorina today and his wife, talking about how donald trump doesn't respect women. then going off on the tirade that we saw today. it seems that the cruz camp knows this might be his last

stand and is going down swinging. >> mr. howie, let me ask you this, tell us why the confluence of forces that were able to propel ted cruz to victory in wisconsin have played out so differently in your state of indiana. >> well, first of all, talk radio did not take a stand against donald trump like we saw in the milwaukee area. we have an evangelical population, about 30% of the republican party, they're voting their pocket book this time. there's a lot of angst. we've seen per capita income decline double-digits over the past decade. and as our pollster said, one of the questions they ask us, why is my adult child still living in my basement? so there's a lot of economic angst. america's getting browner. a good part of the population is becoming more inclusive and we're still fighting social wars here and donald trump is just a new chapter.

from what i've seen from his rallies, close to 20,000 people in ft. wayne over the weekend. this has the characteristics of a movement and i wouldn't be surprised if we see this race declared fairly quickly after 7:00 p.m. when the final polls close. the real race i'm looking at is the clinton/sanders race. that could go down to the wire and that's where the upset could occur there tonight. >> that's interesting. polling has hillary clinton up about 6.5 points. should the polling bear out to be correct tonight, we never know when it is as some states have taught us along the way, should it wear out, what do you anticipate from the cruz campaign? there's the sense of the air coming out of the bubble. they have super pac support, but it's not the hard money that you run the day-to-day operations of a campaign on. at a certain point, you can imagine it's going to be difficult for them to continue

operating. >> well, before today and before the speech that ted cruz gave, i would have said, absolutely ted cruz will take this to the convention, he's going to do everything he can do to force a contested convention. that speech today was interesting, because he was much more resigned in the way he was speaking. i think it just, the insanity of this election and the insanity of donald trump being so factually inaccurate and lying constantly, the cycle has gotten to him. you could tell today that was ted cruz speaking with actual emotion. that this has gone too far. >> thank you all for being here. really appreciate it. still to come, my colleague, andrea mitchell and her exclusive interview with hillary clinton, what she's saying about taking on donald trump and the plight of appalachia, next. allergies.

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you can never get enough of it. change the way you experience tv with xfinity x1. just a few hours ago, msnbc's andrea mitchell sat down with hillary clinton for an exclusive, covering everything from donald trump to her possible vp picks. here's that interview in its entirety. >> we are here in west virginia and it's a critical moment in the presidential primary campaign. we're speaking exclusively today with the democratic front-runner, former secretary of state and new york senator hillary clinton, joining me now. welcome madam secretary. >> thank you. >> thank you for being here with us. >> thank you so much. >> you were met in west virginia, a state that has supported you in the past and which your husband, the former president, won twice. he was the last democrat to win

west virginia in a presidential race. >> right. >> but here you were met by protesters and by a very angry unemploy unemployed, laid-off coal worker, beau copley. and here's part of what he had to say to you. let's watch. >> the reason you hear those people out there saying some of the things that they say is because when you make comments, we're going to put a lot of coal miners out of jobs, these are the kind of people that you're affecting. this is my family. and it's my hope, my future, i want my family to know that they have a future here in this state. because this is a good state. >> now, i know you told him that what you had said in the past was misinterpreted, out of context, it's not what you meant

to say. you have a $30 billion plan to help these workers here. but when you look at the facts, 1 in 5 coal workers have lost their jobs since president obama took office. haven't you and the president decided that you have to make a bet on the future of renewable and clean energies and that is to these people, writing off their aging coal industry and writing off their lives. >> well, andrea, i felt, first of all, really honored that he would be so open and honest emotionally, describing what it's like, what it has been like. you see, i think we've got to both move toward a clean energy future. i've been saying that across america. i have a plan that i think will move us there. but we also have to remember who turned on the lights and powered the factories and provided the energy that we needed to build

our country. so i have absolutely no personal feeling of concern about me. i'm concerned about people like him and his family. that's why i came here. i'm well aware of the politics in west virginia. you just briefly overviewed it. it's gotten increasingly challenging for democrats to be successful. and unfortunately, the political partisan attack on the efforts by our country to move more quickly toward a cleaner energy future has taken a toll. there are so many other factors at work. the rise of natural gas as an alternative has hurt the coal industry. the glut of coal around the world has hurt west virginia in

particular. but i want us to stay focused on what we have to do to help people. that's why i have, as the only candidate to have done this, laid out a plan, as you say, a $30 billion plan to provide support for people like that young man and his beautiful children, whose picture he gave me. and i will carry it with me. and i want us to recognize across our country that we're going to be in a position of making a transition, but we're not there yet. so we've got to do more research into carbon capture and sequestration, to see if there is any kind of future that we can take advantage of for coal. we've got to invest more in the economic futures of these communities that have been so devastated. we have to support with legislation that senator joe manchin is championing the minor protection act, to protect health benefits and pension

benefits, the miners safety act, to protect miners who are still mining the coal. so i came here knowing that there was a great deal of incredible sense of disappointment, feeling disregarded and left behind. but i want to be a president for all of america. i'm not writing off any part of america, any people in our country and that includes people in west virginia in coal country. so i wanted to be here, i want a list of these issues, i want to create a political understanding of what we must do as a nation to support people who literally have supported us for generations. >> when you think of the sentencing of the head of one of these coal companies, who has been sentenced to, i think, a year. >> i'm told that's all the law permitted but it truly is an outrageous that someone -- >> theirs -- mr. blankenship.

>> who was found guilty of compromising safety for the miners, who were mining the coal that made him a wealthy man. i think we need to look at those laws because they have to have a deterrent effect. we have to take a look at the coal companies that because of the drop in global demand are taking bankruptcy, and in the course of their bankruptcy, they're trying to shirk their responsibilities for health and pensions for people who have basically planned their lives, particularly their retirement on being able to count on that pension. our bankruptcy laws need to once again be looked at because we're not taking into account the years of labor and commitment that people like coal miners and other workers have made. so i'm going to take a hard look at this because i think people should be held accountable and that includes those who cost the lives of american coal miners. >> appalachia is a microcosm of what's happening around this country. your husband was protested

against. this used to be bill clinton country. now it's donald trump country. the latest online poll out just now, you are only leading donald trump nationally by six points. a very close race. what is going on? >> well, i think that we will get started on the general election in our country. general elections in our country are contested, they are close. that's been our history for the last several cycles, obviously. so what i'm going to do, is keep talking about what i want to see our country be, how i want to work to provide more good jobs with rising incomes. i think that most people remember the 1990s as a time of peace and prosperity, and most people have to draw the connection between the great repression and failed republican policies which donald trump is willing to continue. so we're going to work hard and we're going to make the case and i feel very confident about that. >> but people are talking about wanting a change. they don't want the establishment.

you have to go against that grain and donald trump is out saying that if you were a man you'd only have 5% of the support that you have, that you only have the support because you're a woman. what do you think about that? >> well, i think that he should take a look at the numbers. i'm leading him by millions of votes. so if we are talking about the contest between him and me before we even get to the general election, i feel pretty good about it. but what he was saying in going after my qualifications is very familiar to a lot of women. and we're not going to be counted out anymore. we're going to stand up and express our opinions. we're going to claim what is rightfully ours in the workplace, in our society, in our economy, in our political system, and i've been thrilled by the response to his negative comments, because most women see it not just as about me. they see it about themselves. they see it about their own situations, and there's been an outpouring of support. we've raised millions of

dollars. we came up with the idea of a women's card, which unfortunately doesn't give you a discount, even though we don't get equal pay for the work we do, you can't show it when you're checking out at the supermarket and say, i want a discount. but we're making a point. but he can continue to attack me. that's fine. i don't mind at all. but i'm going to stand up for the people of this country, women and men. but as he goes after women, as he goes after literally every group, i'll going to be their voice and i'm going to say, wait a minute, you know, we have a lot to contribute to our country and we're doing it. >> he already seized on something you said last week, about how you have a lot of experience with men who go off the reservation, suggesting you were talking about your husband. >> that's not true. i was talking and thinking about my 2000 election, where i started off with rudy guiliani who was making all kinds of intemperate attacks against me

and in fact i called him out for what i described as his temper tantrums before he dropped out. then i was running against congressman rick lazio, who was similarly going after me. so i have political experience in dealing with candidates who think they're going to score points by being either negative about women in general or about me in particular. and i was also thinking about vladimir putin who literally blamed me personally for demonstrations in russia, because of his rigged election. so i do have some experience in dealing with this kind of visceral, really mean spirited attacks. >> are you prepared, though, because there are 16 republicans who are running against him who learn what happened when you don't go and fight back. yesterday he very publicly had lunch with an author who has

written salacious books about you and your husband. he appears to be ready to dump a whole lot of stuff on you. >> well, join the crowd. people have been dumping stuff on me for 25 years. and here i am, on the brink of being the first woman nominated by a national party to run for president, which is an extraordinary honor and a historic responsibility. and when i think about running against him, i'm gonna stay focused on the issues that are gonna make a difference in people's lives. because i think this is a change election. i can't imagine more change than having the first woman president and having someone with a long record of working to even the odds for people. i'm not going to be responding to his every insult and attack. that is just not what i think this election will eventually come down to. >> what about the attacks from bernie sanders? he's been increasingly vocal in recent days. his wife jane said last week that you think you're the anointed one and he says he's

going to have a contested convention and go after the super delegates and try to convert them. what happened to acknowledging the reality, if that is the reality, after the last primary? it sounds as if he's going all the way to philadelphia. >> well, he has every right to finish out this primary season. i couldn't argue with that. >> what about his tone recently? >> you'll have to ask him about that. >> is he -- >> well, the facts are pretty clear. i'm three million votes ahead of him, 300 pledge delegates ahead of him. and we're going to unify the party and we're going to have a great convention and we're going to be absolutely focused on making our case to the american public against donald trump. and i think he will be a part of that. he also said in the last week, that he will work tirelessly seven days a week to defeat donald trump. >> the president said in his speech saturday night that if those jokes worked well, he was

going to use that material once he's out of the office, to make -- [ laughter ] >> which were the attack lines from bernie sanders about the goldman sachs speech. what was in that speech that you wouldn't want to reveal to the people who voted for you? >> nothing. >> so why not just put it out there? >> because i know that others, including mr. trump have made speeches and look at where we are. i've put out 33 years of tax returns. >> so if he puts out his tax returns, would you put out your transcript? >> no. let's talk about apples to apples. i know that donald trump hasn't put out any of his. let's deal with the standards that have been in place for decades, before we move on to new standards imposed on me and nobody else. so let's get tax returns out. let's get donald trump's tax returns out, and then let's get the transcripts of his speeches. because i'm told he's made a lot more money on a single speech

than i have. but let's talk about what people are talking to me about. and that's what's happening to them and their families and their lives. i think i have the best experience, the best record, the best proven results, the best ideas to actually make a difference in producing positive results for people. i think i'm by far the best person to protect our country. when i listen to donald trump say some of what he's saying about foreign policy and national security, even i find it scary. and this is terrain nobody's ever gone to. let's open the door to more countries having nuclear weapons, running contrary to decades of american bipartisan policy. you know, let's punish women for exercising their most personal rights. let's have a mantra that he keeps going back to, that wages are too high and we shouldn't raise the minimum wage -- >> is he unqualified to be the commander in chief? >> he has given no indication that he understands the

gravities that go with being commander in chief and that will be a big part of my campaign, because at some point, he's going to have to be held to the standard we hold anybody running for president and commander in chief. what is it you know, what is it you've done, what is it you are proposing to do as president and commander in chief? so far, we haven't seen any of that. we've seen a lot of rhetoric. we've seen a lot of insults. he's an equal opportunity insulter. but when it comes down to making this really important decision, it's been my experience that people in our country say to themselves, wait a minute. what do i think is the best choice, the best choice for me, for my family, for my job, my income, my future? and i think that absent some major change in how he is presenting himself and what he is saying, that's going to be a pretty high bar for him to get over. >> got to ask you since you last mentioned this to my colleague chuck todd in april, have you

been contacted, or your representatives been contacted by the fbi to set up an interview? >> no. >> any indication that your server was hacked by foreign hackers? >> no. not at all. >> and i know today, you had emotional things to say about opiates and your personal experience, and you're dealing with people with people who have suffered so much. some say that it's because of joblessness and despair. what has been your experience? share with our audience. >> i think the opiate epidemic crosses all lines. it's found in the most affluent of neighborhoods and families and among the most distressed neighborhoods and families. it really knows no boundaries. even today at the event we just held here in charleston, a young woman who comes from a very well established family just got kind of interested in trying to drugs, because one of her

friends was doing drugs with her parents at the age of 12, despite a really solid family, she began experimenting. another one of the stories was about a young woman who had a real fight with opioid addiction and finally, finally recovered and was sober for six months and then injured herself doing exercise and had to go into the hospital. and there was no message in her hospital record that she was a recovery addict. so on discharge, the discharging physician, who had not treated her, gave her 50 oxycontin pills. this is a problem we have made because out of a desire to help people cope with pain, we have been much too open and easy in providing painkillers that have addicted people. they're such powerful opiates.

in different parts of the country that has led people to be more vulnerable to heroin, which is coming in across our borders, in other parts of the country there have been a lot of physicians that have been more than willing to write those prescriptions. so we are now addressing this on all levels and i really hope that as a nation, we will do much more on changing the way we treat people who are addicted, moving more into treatment and recovery, looking for ways to change prescription practices by physicians, more police departments like the one here in charleston and the one elsewhere, like i have mentioned and visited before, being ready to help with overdoses. diverting people into drug courts, a really important idea. much more treatment in recovery. because as i was shaking hands after the event, a young woman said to me, she had just lost her son, who had overdosed in the bathroom of a department

store. he was on a list to get into a recovery program, but there was no space for him. so if we're going to talk about the serious issues that are affecting americans, this is one that cuts across all lines. >> and indiana today? >> right. indiana today. and on through california and new jersey. [ inaudible question ] >> you think we had a good campaign, we ran hard, but i'm really focused on moving into the general election and i think that's where we have to be because we're going to have a tough campaign against a candidate who will literally say or do anything, and we're going to take him on at every turn at what's really important to the people of our country. >> madam secretary, thank you very much. >> thank you. you just heard hillary clinton talk about a contested convention. what is bernie sanders saying about that? we talk to him and that's next.

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we are about 15 minutes away from the first exit polling to

come out of indiana and what is the future for the bernie sanders campaign? earlier today he spoke to chris jansing about taking this fight all the way to the convention in philadelphia. >> i would hope that the super delegates listen to the people in their own state and say, hey, maybe i was for hillary, but bernie won 75% of the vote, i've got to vote with him. number two, for other super delegates who may have come on board, literally before i was in the campaign, you know, they came on very early with hillary clinton, they've got to take a hard look at which candidate is more likely to defeat donald trump or the other republican, whoever the republican nominee might be. if you look at virtually all of the polls, i do better against trump than does hillary clinton. i'm the stronger candidate. and i think you're going to see a lot of super delegates say, i like hillary, but bernie is the stronger candidate. and it's imperative that we retain control of the white house. >> let me bring in my colleague,

chris jansing. chris, this argument, which has been coming from the sanders camp just seems like it's a tough sell with the delegates themselves and the base, but we have polling out today that say a majority of democratic voters want sanders in until the convention. >> reporter: yeah, and obviously that is giving them a little bit of a boost here, but the fact of the matter is, and they know this, that even if he gets those delegates, the super delegates are in the states where they're with clinton, come over to him, he's still not going to be close within striking distance. so, look, there's two tracks that this campaign is working on. one, he's pushing ahead, looking to see something might happen between now and the next six weeks, the next ten states that could change the trajectory of this race. he's not going to get out thinking maybe somehow something could happen. the other part of this, he's making arguments about what he thinks the democratic party

should be. there's too many super delegates, that's something he'll push for, to give them less influence. he's in a back and forth with debby schultz right now, about whether they should bring independents in the party. she said clearly no. he says, we're not looking ahead, it's not being a forward-looking party. and besides the poll you mentioned, chris, he continues to get these huge crowds. i mean, he's been getting thousands and thousands of people, sometimes two, three times a day. one last point i'll make about indiana, even though we're in kentucky, he's skipping ahead. that interview he gave to me was after he met with the local head of the steel workers union, and they think that in many ways indiana kind of mirrors some of the better things in michigan to help him pull an upset. so they're still hopeful about what might happen tonight. >> chris jansing in kentucky, where there appears to be a line

to go see bernie sanders. sort of remarkable in the last few weeks, he continues to pull massive crowds, even as the math makes it increasingly unlikely he can pull out the nomination. we'll be right back as we await the first exit polls out of the great state of indiana. don't go anywhere. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals,

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moments away from indiana's first exit polls, msnbc's steve kornacki has the most important number. i'm guessing it's pie. >> the most important number of the day is not pi today. it's actually 41. which may not sound that interesting, but it's key to the question hanging over this campaign. can donald trump clinch this nomination without the contested convention? 41 means, if donald trump gets a sweep of indiana, he would need just 41% of the delegates that are up for grabs in every contest the rest of the way and avoid the contested con vingz. let's try to take you through how that works. oh, my god, chris, this thing is malfunctioning. >> i totally hacked in before you got up there. [ laughter ] >> here's how it works.

41 is the percentage he'd need from the rest of the way. 57 delegates tonight, if he wins indiana and wins every congressional district, he would get 57 delegates. what would that leave him with? he would need to squeeze 183 out of all the states to come. big ones in there. new jersey, it's winner takes all. west virginia looks good for him. basically the bottom line, if he takes care of business tonight and in the states he's supposed to, by the time he gets to california, he would need some delegates, not a lot of them. he he'd be well positioned to hit that number. so a win for donald trump and that math is wide open for donald trump. >> that does it for us in this hour. i'm chris hayes, i'll see you back here at midnight eastern with full coverage of the indiana primary election results. our full coverage with chris matthews starts now.

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good evening, i'm chris matthews, in for chuck todd who will be joining us later this evening as the polls close in indiana tonight. welcome to our indiana primary night coverage. we're less than two hours now from all the polls being closed in indiana, where donald trump is in a position to deal a knockout blow against ted cruz tonight. could indiana make tonight the unofficial start of a general election match-up between hillary clinton and donald trump? we'll find out later.