warriors" with katy tur, kristen welker. first, "mtp daily" starts now. if it's thursday, donald trump is set to hold his first rally since becoming the presumptive nominee. a span of 324 days, the trump campaign went from underestimated to unstoppable. just exactly how did the grand old party get trumped? it's a special one-hour "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd. here in washington. welcome to "mtp daily." what the hell just happened? that question is echoing through the far reaches of what is still a shell-shocked republican party right now. some are arguing that this result is proof that the republican party is simply

failed. so how on earth did things get like this? tone, we're going to devote the entire hour to answering that question, or at least trying to answer it. and in addition to addressing the elephant in the room, what can the party do about it? should it do something about it? we'll talk to two former senators who watched the party and the process fall apart from their point of view. also speak with the two-term republican governor who got fed up with his party he's been running for president as libertarian for the second time. the gop ran 17 candidate as the start of the contest, hailed as the deepest bench ever, four sitting governors, five former governors, four sitting u.s. senators, two iowa caucus winners, 140 years of combined elected experience, and trump blew it all apart. waging the ultimate divide and conquer primary strategy largery rejected generations of party orthodoxy. the dust is still settling.

here's where things stand. the republican party's presumptive nominee begins the campaign as the weakest candidate in a generation. we have the numbers to back that up. more on that later. and then there's this late today, the speaker of the house, leading republican in the party, paul ryan, said he's, quote, not ready to support or endorse donald trump. ryan says that trump has work to do on his part in order to unify the party. the gop scrambling to address a nightmare sent nair year for down ballot contests. ryan saying what he said to provide cover for house republicans. but democrats are doubling the number of senate seats they believe they can target and potentially flip with trump at the top of the gop ticket. at its most basic level the republican party got here to thanks to structural and demographic stresses that later crumbled under the weight of branding and communication failures under party leadership. this took a generation to create. it didn't happen in one year,

one campaign. and one of the party's biggest issues, ironically, comes from too much success. start with gerrymandering and what they've done to the congressional districts. the party basically drew diversity out of their districts to the point 95% of republican house districts are majority white. result, republicans don't have diverse constituencies which means they don't need to appeal to minority or swing voters. it's districts like that compromising become as i liability and gridlock, called standing on principle, ends up being rewarded. these are conditions that have bred the bigger problems today in a presidential environment. it's fed a media bubble basically put talk radio on tv, creating a booming, yet narrowly targeted feedback loop. and it's made the general election very hard for republicans to win, even though from -- that's why for much of the base, mitt romney and mccain's losses get reinforced their view, that the best way to

win was via conservative purity. but mccain and romney might argue they lost because of how the base has damaged the party's brand nationally. it's also bred isolation and cloaked off attempts to remedy the party structural problems. would there be a donald trump if some form of immigration reform passed in 2013 with the gang of eight or in 2010, when democrats controlled anything? and folks, it's hard to fix your struggles with african-american voters if they believe you're passing laws that they think are designed to prevent them from voting. it's all connected. we're only getting at the top of this. insulate the party base, it's no wonder there is palpable backlash and rejection of social and demographic changes nationally. when the forces come to a head, election of the first black president, maybe it's not a surprise it's met with a conservative backlash that some say spiraled into a blind rage. in addition to gridlock, it gives rise to wild conspiracy

theories like the birther movement. to make matters worse, tensions are aggravated by a stagnant economy, some of the conditions that have driven the republican party to the brink and allowed trump to thrive. he filled this vacuum. he is the ultimate anti-obama. he quickly became the most prominent birther four years ago. he's intensely been aggressive with his views on immigration, everything from deporting millions of immigrants to choking off muslim immigration. he's a master of the media, and promises to have a panacea for an ailing economy. to trump's credit he saw early with the republican party could be headed and he dominated. but, boy oh boy, is he ail yates big names inside the party along the way. >> candidacy is a cancer on conservatism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised, and discarded. >> he's a con artist. >> the delusional narcissist and orange-faced wind bag. >> the kim kardashian of

politics. >> donald trumps a narcissist and he's an ego maniac. >> you're a sniveling coward, leave heidi the hell alone. >> a phony, a fraud, promises are worthless as a degree from trump university. >> a race-baiting, xenophobic big it. >> a pathological liar, a narcissist at a level i don't think the country's ever seen. morality does not exist for him. >> in addition to those folks there, trump may dismantle reagan's three-legged stool for the republican party, social conservatives, fiscal conservatives and national security conservatives. trump's viewed are being attacked -- he's alienated leaders from all three parts of the party. we're at the point where it is exceedingly difficult to define what is the republican base, what is the republican base in the air of trump? what does that mean anymore? let's bring in our first of many panels. scotty nell hughes a trump

surrogate and political editor, senior cnbc editor michael kudlow, michael steele, former spokesman for john boehner. let me start with you, scotty, and ask you this, what turns you off of the republican party and on to donald trump? >> well, it goes back farther than just this election season. you have to realize, we've had a do-nothing congress that many of ous in the grassroots worked very hard to get elected in 2010, 2012, 2014, and what do we have to show for it? there's more frustration. i am not surprised that mr. trump captured the hearts and soul of the grassroots, the silent majority this election season. i'm shocked that those people thought they were going to continue to be able to dom national a party that had become stagnant and stopped being able to relate. barack obama, anybody could have won in 2008 if he didn't have an

"r" by their name. for anybody who is surprised about the rise of donald trump, they obviously have not been paying very much attention to the constituency of the republican party. >> i'm going -- larry, i'll get to you in a second, michael steel, you worked for the republican congress, that scotty says that she and others say worked so hard to get your former boss, john boehner, into speakership. respond to scotty. >> i think we have a constitutional republic, a limit to the powers granted to the legislature, powers granted to the executive. republicans in congress did everything humanly possible to achieve the goals of, well, of the members and of the people who elected them. repeal obamacare, cut spending, reform tax code. every one of the efforts came to a proffer, because ultimately veto pen wielded by president obama. >> larry, you come from a day -- scotty you want to jump in -- but larry, you come from a time

where you watched reagan work with democratic congress. they could have easily ended up in shutdown territories numerous times. they didn't. the idea of getting 60 to 70% of what you want was a win. what happened? >> well, look, i worked for reagan, i was a budget deputy. by the way we did have several shutdowns for the record. >> you did, that's right. >> yes. reagan didn't win them all but won a bunch of them. to my friend michael steel -- by the way i'm a huge fan of john boehner, a personal friend over 30 years -- scotty has it right seeds of the trump candidacy, at least many, were put in place because the congress didn't do anything. now, particularly, michael, you mentioned tack reform. come on, buddy, nothing has happened with tax reform, that's my area. i have been yelling and screaming for a flat personal tax, as you probably know, and most of all, sharp reduction in

the business tax for large and small companies which i believe would be the single largest growth stimulant and wage stimulant and job stimulant to this economy. you all didn't push reconciliation, okay? i don't want to go into the weeds. it just means 51 votes in the senate. you don't need 60, you need 51. david stockman and i, i don't know how many years ago, i don't want to think about it, we used reconciliation time and time again, won most battles. all i'm saying is, trump's got, he wants to cut taxes he wants to cut spending, wants to lower regulations, he's right on target as far the economy's concerns. the congress, the gop, did not do what we elected them to do, and even if you lose to obama, even if he's going to veto stuff you still have to make a run at it, show the folks you're doing the best you can. >> let me let michael respond. i didn't plan on poor michael steel being the punching back

here. respond to larry. >> mr. kudlow knows if you look at budgets written by house speaker ryan, passed by the house, senate, include a tax reform principle exactly like the ones that you're proposing. if you look at what dave camp talked about for years as chairman of ways and means, the draft he put forward, what we've done or what we did as house republicans -- >> it's this year -- >> scotty -- >> okay. >> you got to be aggressive. >> larry. >> look -- the whole point here is -- just close it. we never had a reconciliation battle. we never got stuff through both the house and the senate. the speaker of the house is a dear, dear friend of mine, my god, paul ryan, i've known him for ever, love the guy, love what his policies are but he would tell me time and time again, we'll never get it through the senate, the senate majority leader won't do it. my point, fine.

your job is to go across and give them hell to get stuff through. that's important. >> scotty, you're a trump surrogate. trump, in many ways, i think, one of the reasons why he sells to some, is he brags about, hey, i will cut deals, i will be a deal maker. now i fine this a little ironic, the problem was nobody knew how to cut a deal between obama and boehner, nobody knew when to give, nobody -- we can go through -- i'm not going to go through the history of that -- are you going to be okay, as a conservative, if he cuts a deal that only gets 70% of what he wants? there there's a difference between compromise and ka pitchlation. this congress has been a capitulating congress. we see one budget that has passed where the republicans maybe get a list that i can count on one hand and democrats got everything they want. you go, wait a minute. yes, 70% will be considered a win considering we've gotten 5% of what we wanted with a

republican congress so far. and you foe you started off, chuck, talking about the different houses and senators worried about their seats. good! that's not mr. trump's fault. if you're worried about a record turpo turnout and they're going to vote you out of office, maybe you should look at your record, was i reflective of the people i want to represent. >> first i want to defend boehner. boehner had a good budget deal in 2011, and obama walked away from it, literally, at the last minute on a weekend where he jacked up the tax revenues by 400 -- >> it was a bipartisan group. >> bipartisan. >> republicans and democrats, mr. kudlow, that came up with that deal. >> look, i'm not against bipartisanship. i'm saying they had a deal, boehner was the lead. >> boehner and obama. >> and obama walked out of the deal on friday night or

saturday. i'll give boehner credit. come back to your question of 60 or 70%. i don't know how many times i heard reagan in the oval office, he said give me half a loaf now, i'll get the second half later or, he said give me 70% now, i want the 30% later. the 30% is not my enemy, if we agree 70% of the time. with respect to mr. trump, he has a great history, as a businessman of making deals. i believe with the force of his personality and strength of his policies he would be excellent and get 70% and we'll all live much more happily ever if he does. >> i want to switch the conversation to paul ryan. we have a unique thing, michael steel, you know mr. ryan pretty well. what's going on here? why did he hesitate in -- what's your assessment why he hesitated in endorsing trump today? >> i think that paul ryan is in the same place as tens of millions of republican voters, they're not going to vote for hillary clinton, they don't want

to vote for hillary clinton. they don't what to have to vote for a third party candidate but they want to vote for a nominee of the republican party they can be proud of, that they trust on judicial nominations, economic reform, they trust on national defense. right now -- >> burden on trump. >> exactly. >> larry, you're close to ryan. were you upset he did this? >> no. no. my sense here -- this is my personal advice to all of us conservatives and so forth -- help trump. don't trash him. help him. and i think, as paul said today, in the interview, on cnn, wherever it was, he's looking forward to supporting him, but he's not ready to support him. and what that tells me is that paul, who is basically an issues guy and a darn good one, paul needs to talk more with donald trump and move him more on a couple of issues and that's a constructive thing. and i say this to many of my conservative colleagues, who we've worked with in the vineyards for decades and

decades, help make mr. trump a better candidate. don't trash him. don't walk away. >> i'm so tempted to go down the vineyard road but i won't. what would you tell speaker ryan? convince speaker ryan on television why he should support donald trump. >> the debate is over. the american people, the republicans have chosen, they've chosen mr. trump. paul ryan didn't reject mr. trump. he rejects the millions of voters who voted for mr. trump over the other 17 candidates running for office. he backhanded them in the face, and i think he needs to really consider, are you going to be a republican or going to be a democrat? you would never hear this type of rhetoric out of a democrat going against unand of their candidates. you never hear them talk about bernie or hillary clinton. they would have unity, putting party before their own ego. i was extremely disappointed in paul ryan today. >> i'm going to leave it there. >> help the guy. don't trash him. help the guy. >> they've trashed him. >> all right.

scotty, larry, poor michael steel, beaten up by mr. kudlow and scotty. thank you all for your patience. lively conversation. we've got more to come. speaking of donald trump, he will join me sunday exclusively on "meet the press." check local nbc station. next -- how the gop's no compromise pledge, if you call it that, made way for the man behind art of the deal. did the lack of cutting deals by the republicans give trump an opening? later -- what to make of the growing calls for another choice on the ballot this november? look at how the never trump republicans are responding. plus, libertarian candidate gary johnson will weigh in on the potential impact of his candidacy, should he end up the libertarian party nominee. ...clear for take f.

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starts the contest as an underdog. you have to go back 20 years to find the last time republican was in a similar spot as trump is now after locking up the nomination. right now, trump trails for the first national poll out, clinton by 13 points. that was a cnn/orc number. those numbers are in line with nbc's numbers, clinton up 11. in the 2012 race when romney locked up the contest he trailed by six points. he did go on to lose by four. mccain became the party's presumptive nominee, polls had him trailing by two points. mccain also lost that year. george w. bush had the strongest starting position. when he became the presumptive nominee en route to winning the white house he was leading al gore by five points. you have to go back to 1996 to find a trump level of underdoggedness. the first poll after bob dole became the presumptive nominee

had clinton leading dole by 17. clinton would win by nine points, a landslide for democrademocra democrats marking the biggest victory for the democratic party since lyndon johnson. believe the polls. remember, trump led in almost every republican poll starting last summer. and those same polls have shown trump losing in general elections since the summer. so trump being the underdog in the race against clinton should mean something to those that were trying to ignore the polls before. more on "mtp daily" deep dive into the state of the gop. two former republican senators who have watched their party get trumped.

welcome back. devoting the entire hour to a deep dive into what exactly happened to the do and how do they get to this place to turn to donald trump. perhaps the party may have gone overboard in its resistance to

compromise. thomas friedman wrote this this week, when mitch mcconnell said in october 2010 that the single most important thing we want to achieve for president obama to be a one-term president, he described the republicans' dominance strategy since 2008, the party stopped thinking seriously about market-based alternatives into that emptiness entered trump like an invasive species. senators, welcome to both of you. senator hutchison, let me start with you, i'm going to ask you, the same question to both of you, when friends call you up and say, how did this happen, what is your answer? >> well, my answer is that i don't know how this happened but i do understand the anger of the american public about the decline in our country, the economy is stagnant because we

haven an anti-business environment and the democrats are anti-business. we have our standing in the world and national security is at stake here, and our allies don't trust us, our enemies don't fear us. we've got to have somebody who will make an enormous change in direction in this country. that is -- that's the issue. now, how we got to trump to be that person, i think, is a question i can't answer. >> senator chambliss, one of the points that tom friedman was making there, he thinks there's a group of voters who think we're stuck, that our politics is just stuck, you know what, do whatever it takes to unstuck it, even if it means arson. what do you think of that theory? >> tom makes a good point there. people aren't tired of sending folks to washington who make all of these promises, make commitments and then, you know, nothing happens.

trump is -- he's come out and he's touched every hot button on the minds of not just republicans, there are a lot of independents and democrats in all of his successes. i think he's done a really good job of just saying what people wanted to hear and i think from that standpoint, you have to give the guy credit. he's done what he needed to do to get the nomination. now he's going to to have do more deep diving and that's interesting to see. frankly, i know that he understands issues a lot more than people give him credit for at this point. and i think he's prepared himself to kind of go forward it a different way but positive way. >> senator, do you think the republican leadership in washington should accept some of the blame here? >> you know, i have to say that i think the republican leaders are getting a bad rap.

i think some candidates have given the impression that we control all three of the tools of lawmaker and we don't. and our leaders, i've seen them toil and try, but you know, you can't win and do the things that you want to do because you don't control all three of the levels that are necessary to get bills passed and become law. i don't think president obama has worked with the republican leaders. as larry kudlow mentioned earl yes, he walked away when he made deals. i think that they are getting a bad rap. i think we should have more ideas and i think republican leadership should be putting forth more ideas. i think paul ryan is trying to do that now. and i hope donald trump will show a different side of himself now. if he does understand the

issues, he needs to come up with plans, solutions, some depth, and stop all of the sophomoric kind of attacking people. >> senator chambliss, in hindsight, you know, look, i know that, frankly, republican narrative is that obama walks away from every deal. the white house narrative is that republicans walk away from every deal. i want to get that because, trust me, you know, when you say that senator, he walked away, everybody has their own version of the story. but let me ask you this, senator chambliss, in hindsight, should more deals have been cut by the republican leadership? should there have been more give? is the problem constituents don't reward compromise, they punish it? >> frankly, the republican leadership is being criticized by the right wing of our party for compromising too much. so i think the answer to your question is, no, it's not they haven't been willing to compromise. but, frankly, you've got to have

leadership from the top exerting itself. if you're going to be able to compromise in the right way. you had mitch mcconnell's statement and you've heard the same rhetoric from president obama about republicans. >> it's polarizing rhetoric. you think it's too polarizing? >> i do. it may be on both sides. kay and i would love to have had 60 members of the united states senate as republicans, we could have done some really good things. >> right. >> but we didn't. and it made it very tough. when we are in the majority, democrats block us at every turn, when they were in the majority, we blocked them at just about every turn. >> let me ask you this -- >> i remember, chuck, they had 60 votes in the first two year of the obama administration, that's how they passed obamacare without one republican vote. and our own people don't give --

take notice of that. >> i think it's one of those, i wondered what would life have been like, would health care have looked differently if he only had 54 democrats, knowing he was going to have to find six or seven. senator hutchison, last question, if the gang of eight bill had passed and it become law in 2013, do now you think immigration would be as hot of a button issue today inside the republican party? >> i do, because i think the illegal immigration is out of control, and i don't see that that bill was not going to pass and i think that taking it -- i think we have an answer for illegal immigration. and i think donald trump has brought that issue to the forefront. but it is out of control, i don't think that the gang of eight bill was the right bill myself, but i think there are answers and we are not producing

them. >> supporting donald trump? senator hutchison? >> i'm going to see how he conducts this campaign. >> you're not there yet? you're like paul ryan. >> i am. >> senator chambliss, you sounded like you were there. >> i'm going to support the republican nominee, that appears to be donald trump. i have all of the confidence in the world that he's going to have a strong platform that he helps develop to run on that's going to turn the country around. >> senators, good to have you on. thank you both for sharing your views. can the gop compromise and rally and trump as the convention draws near, or will disaffected republicans search for another option this november? i'll talk with one of the options, libertarian candidate gary johnson. people forget who is a two-term republican governor of a swing state. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back athe grocery store.

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that. i'm not sure that's necessary because i have a big voice, i go on shows like yours, explain the truth, and people seem to go along with it. >> well, in just under 90 minutes donald trump will use that big voice to rally crowds in west virginia. it's his first campaign rally as the republican party's presumptive nominee for president. check katy tur, charleston, west virginia, trump will take the stage. the first time he's speaking at a rally in a general election mind-set though he's not in a swing state. this is still a primary state and any hint at anything new he may add? >> no, we don't know. it's going to be interesting to see which donald trump we see tonight. he's not going to have lyin' ted to mention, no 1 for 41 kasich, no more low energy jeb. now it's all going to be, as donald trump said before, crooked hillary. does he come out and act

gracious and try to unify the party, as we've seen he needs to do, or is he going to be as boisterous as ever. we'll see. >> any comment yet on paul ryan's sort of nonendorsement and maybe expectation we'll hear from him on that? >> no comment yet on any of that. no comment so far on mitt romney saying he's not going to go to the convention. this morning he said that it's disappointing -- it doesn't really care the bushes are not endorsing him, both george bushs. but as for paul ryan, the two have had a relationship, they've spoken on the phone. you think there would be a reaction but the campaign has not issued one so far. we'roinge go see if he's going to mention it on stage. it is interesting to see, i mean, i'm sure you know, chuck, that the leader of the party is coming out so tepidly and not saying that he's ready to endorse the nominee. >> quickly, turn around and tell

me, is -- are we seeing typical lines for trump rallies, any dissipation, or is it packed as usual? >> no, it's huge. it's packed as usual, standing here in the pouring rain. a disconnect between what goes on in washington and the anger that he's feeling from the establishment and the folks that come out here to these rallies. they're just as big as ever and just as excited as ever, yeah. >> katy tur on the trump beat, thank you. just ahead -- libertarian candidate gary johnson on growing calls for a third party option. the pursuit of healthier.

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many republicans have made no secret of their quest to find someone, anyone in the conservative world to topple donald trump. nebraska's senator ben sasse one of the earliest anti-trump figures in congress call ford third party candidate in an open letter last night. he's not interested in being that candidate but, quote, never trump standard bearer and weekly standard editor bill kristol is undeterred. the environment is ripe for a third party. well, since donald trump became the last man standing in the republican race, google searches for gary johnson have spiked, the former two-term new mexico governor who served as republican winning both time by nearly ten points in a swing state, mind you. johnson ran in 2012 as libertarian party's nominee for president. this year he plans to win again, hoping to win the nomination at the end of the month. libertarian party is the only third party with a shot at being on the ballot in all 50 states while libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson joins me

now. governor johnson, welcome back to the show. why did you leave the republican party in the first place? >> well, reallier the republican party shut me out. i'm a social liberal, i'm a classic liberal, fiscally conservative, socially liberal. chuck, i think most people in the country fall in that category. where's the reputation when it comes to presidential candidates on the republican side? there's not that representation and, like i say, that's a representation of most americans fall in that category. >> you know, there was a time donald trump would have described himself that way. do you believe donald trump is closer to you on some of these social issues, for instance? >> well, no, not really. donald trump, he's going to deport and 11 million illegal immigrants, build a fence across the boarder, he's going to ban muslims from coming into this country, he's going to kill the families of islamic terrorists,

he's all for free market but in the next sentence ban apple from making ipads and iphones in the united states? this just goes on and on and on. i don't know how we could be more opposite. i think donald trump alienates half of republicans. >> let me ask you this, if you get this nomination, how do you -- do you view yourself as the vehicle to appeal to disaffected republicans or do you think there's also room for disaffected democrats that maybe supported sanders and didn't want hillary clinton? what would your appeal to them be? >> chuck, i make the pitch -- i'm going to make the pitch to everybody watching now -- get on the website isidewith.com. take the political quiz, find out which political candidate you most match up with and knock yourself out supporting that candidate. i think it's interesting that isidewith myself 99% but the

next politician is bernie sanders at 73%. bernie has a lot of libertarian tendencies. when it comes to marks, when it comes to big government versus small government, we go different directions at that point. but there's more to agree with bernie sanders than disagree. i just think, at the end of the day, when trump has to go out and garner support of 30% of the far right and hillary has to go out and garner 30% of the support of the far left, and when 50% of americans right now are declaring themselves as independent, statistically, don't the two party, two major parties represent about 30% of the electorate? i mean, that's the big dissatisfaction that's out there right now. >> let me ask you this, have -- since the -- we've gotten to this point, where it looks like both parties are going to nominate two people who have unfavorable ratings that would be record levels, record level

for trump, for clinton it's not a record level because of the existence of trump, have you gotten more money, have you gotten more support? what kind of calls have you gotten in the last week? >> well, the interest has gone way up. for me, chuck, the crux is just being in the polls. i wouldn't be doing this if there weren't the opportunity of winning. the only way, the only opportunity that a third party has of winning is to be in presidential debates. the presidential debate commission says you have to be at 15% to be in debates, 15% in polls. >> that's a fair number, isn't it? though? if we -- i think it's fair -- >> how about if you're not in the polls -- yeah, but how about the fact you're not in the polls that determines the 15%? another thing that i think you pretty well pointed out is the libertarian party is going to be on the ballot in all 50 states. >> you're confident? 100%. >> i hope to be that nominee.

if you have all of the money in the world right now, you can't get on the ballot in all 50 states. if you have all of the money in the world right now and set out to be a third party, there's we'll be watching your convention. i'll be calling you soon. >> thanks. coming up, we'll have our panel as we finalize our special hour. keep it here. and that in a new house, you probably don't share the same tastes as the previous owner. ♪ [ dolphin chatters ] so when you need a little house painting or a complete remodel, we'll help you get the job done right, guaranteed. get started today at angie's list, because your home is where our heart is.

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for anybody who's surprised about this rise of donald trump, they have not been paying very much attention to the constituency of the republican party. >> the seeds of the trump candidacy, at least many of them, were put in place because the congress didn't do anything. >> i don't know how this happened, but i do understand the anger of the american public about the decline in our country. >> people are tired of sending folks to washington who make all these promises, make all these commitments and nothing happens. >> that was just a few of the highlights from our one hour dive in here and how the republican party got to this point. just a moment ago, donald trump did respond to speaker ryan saying he wasn't ready to support trump. here is what trump said.

i'm not ready to support speaker ryan's agenda. perhaps in the future we can work together and work for what's best for the american people. it's about time for politicians to put them first. it's time for the lid. let me get your reaction to trump's response to ryan. >> i thought it was the right response coming from trump. he didn't call paul ryan tall paul. >> he could have been lying ryan. >> well, that's been used. he did the best trump can do without burning any bridges. i would say paul ryan's answer was good too. do you support trump, he says not yet. >> he kept the door open. i thought what ryan did today was simply cover for house republicans who may need to dump

trump. >> i think it's an answer we're going to hear from a lot of people. it's a very good way of sort of skirting the various. >> keep an open mind to him. >> some people will hear that and say he's contemplating. that statement isn't just saying i'm rubber. you're glue. they have completely divergent agendas. as people like paul ryan, in particular have directed the party, you think about the ryan budget, his signature policy. entitlement reform, the signature of that policy, donald trump is against it. >> matthew, what is the republican base right now? >> i think it's largely trump supporters. i think a lot of the republican mainstream vote will coalesce. >> they are already.

>> we're seeing it. the voters are moving to trump faster than the leaders. >> that's right. not all the leaders are going to be with him in the end. there will be some who just won't be able to support donald trump for whatever reason. i think the majority of republicans will be for trump in november. that's the republican base. it's the party of trump. it's not the gop that we have come to know. >> that's the real problem for the republican party. the republican establishment. all the republicans who are fretting about the effect of trump is that when and if donald trump loses this election, the republican party wakes up the next day, those voters are still there. that majority of the party that supported trump, they're still there. the party has to grapple not so much just with trump as a person or a phenomenon but with the voters that they never anticipated going this way. >> might be a problem for the party but not necessarily a problem for trump in this

election. you have a poll about how bad the republican brand is. a will the of that is republicans disappointed in their own party because they haven't fought enough for whatever the litany is that we heard in the show. trump, being himself, is independent of the republican past. i don't think he sees it as a liability that george h.w and george w. and mitt romney won't be at the convention. he's recreating this party in a way he thinks has broader appeal. it's not sustained by the polls. >> the problem, it seems, that others have running with trump, let's take pat tomey. he's a free market, free trader. he's a club for growth. he ran club for growth. it goes to your point about ryan. they're just divergent economic philosophies. how does he ever run with him? philosophically he's not with him. that's a problem for a lot of these republican office holders.

>> they have been thinking about this for a while. >> this will a huge tap dance for every single candidate. this election is going to be all about trump. fairly or not, every single question they get from every single reporter and television station they talk to will be what do you think about trump? the ryan answer is good for as long as it lasts but at some point the rubber meets the road, who are you going to vote for? i'm running my own race, it's going to effect all of these candidates. >> matthew what did you make of gary johnson? is he a viable alternative as the person that a republican senator running for a tough re-election say i'm voting for gary johnson? is it enough? >> it's not enough.

that won't fly. >> good to see you both. there you go. our special run hour. we tried to unpack it. we got a lot more work to do. we'll keep doing it tomorrow. "with all due respect" to speaker paul ryan, we got a feeling a brand new nickname is about to come your way. > leading a show, a political bombshell, paul ryan said he's not on board the trump train. when jake tapper asked