that won't fly. >> good to see you both. there you go. our special run hour. we tried to unpack it. we got a lot more work to do. we'll keep doing it tomorrow. "with all due respect" to speaker paul ryan, we got a feeling a brand new nickname is about to come your way. > leading a show, a political bombshell, paul ryan said he's not on board the trump train. when jake tapper asked the

speaker if he will back trump, he said this. >> to be candid with you, i'm not ready to do that at this point. i hope to and i want to, but i think what is required that we unify this party. saying we're unified doesn't unify us. actually taking the principles that we all believe in, showing there's a dedication and running a principled campaign that runs can be proud about and that can appeal to a majority of americans, that is what it takes to unify this party. >> he thought he was going to have more time but ted cruz and john kasich ended their campaigns quickly. ryan and his advisors had about a day to think about it after cruz got out. ryan took the position from his

heart rather than based on pure politics. john, this is the biggest repudiation of trump as the nominee from any current elected official. what happens now? >> that will suggest a reenforce a sense of how difficult trump's challenges is in trying to put this party together. i'm sure paul ryan is honest in what he is saying. the idea that trump would be the nominee was on track, that he would have to grapple with this question has been clear for weeks. if it's not been wanting to deal with that, he's been in denial and he didn't serve himself well by not preparing for this better. >> i think ryan is trying to say

i'm open for being for the guy but it's another extraordinary spectacle to have a speaker of house, a guy who has won fair and square the republican nomination, i'm not for him yet is going to sting and again is going to allow lots of people to have covered and not be for trump, at least not yet. >> with a normal nominee, the strategy of what ryan often does in situations like this which is making people come and beg him. beg me to be speaker. beg me to do what you want. beg me to be vice president. to say you have to earn my endorsement, that would be kind of clever. given it's trump it's unclear whether it's clever or not. trump is to unpredictable this terms of how he would react. i suggested before he would lash out and knowing his temperament, he might. the now he's going to toady up to ryan, that may backfire. i don't see that. >> they've had some

conversations and made some public comments back and forth that have been friendly. the reality is ryan cares about policy. trump's position on policy and trade make it very difficult for ryan to say this guy should be our nominee. i guarantee you paul ryan is surrounded by people, including one who will be guest here tonight to say extreme trump skeptics. >> the idea like what is trump going to do. there's these big policy items that we have other friends in the media and other places who listen to trump and say, you know, if he doesn't change his posture on immigration, if he doesn't change his posture on the muslim ban. it's going to be hard for me to support him. i say that's totally legitimate position to take. what do they expect trump to do? these are positions what trump built his candidacy on. it's one thing to pivot, it's another thing to repudiate the big headline that made you so popular with a certain part of

the party in the first place. >> we'll talk more about what happened with ryan today later in the show. >> we sure are. paul ryan, pe repudiating trump, he's not the only one. there was a lot of action on the anti-trump front in the past 24 hours. we just got this ryan news. before that you had bush xli and xliii saying they would not endorse him and would say nothing in this presidential election. this afternoon, mitt romney announced he would be skipping the convention in cleveland this summer. he said he would never vote for trump. ben sass wrote a 1500 word facebook quote saying there's no reason either front-runner believe in limiting anything about d.c.'s power. there are some republicans like senate majority leader mitch

mcconnell and former minnesota governor who have fallen in line and say they will support their party's man. my question so you, taking in all the the index, the uniter, divider elements on both sides, what do we know about how things stand in trump's big challenge of bringing the party together? >> i thought before ryan, trump was having another better day than worse day in terms of unifying. the ryan thing really tilts the thing. i think the two president bushes, it shows you how much trump has changed our perception and expectations to have two former presidents, one who is the chairman of republican national committee say we're going to be quiet. i think the press is letting the bush's off easy. they're acting like we're not weighing in. we're staying home tonight. >> they're weighing in. it's a big deal. >> bob doyle said he won't go to

the convention but his office said he's not committed to voting for trump. both of the bushes. john mccain we're not clear where he is. audio came out suggesting trump will make his re-election more of an uphill fight. mitt romney, we know where he is. those are all the living republican nominees. not a single one is for donald trump. >> that's a huge statement. huge. >> even some of the people that you read like mitch mcconnell saying they will support. he's doing what ryan is doing. >> it's an extraordinary spectacle. i think right now the ryan thing gives people cover to not be for trump. today ended up being not a great

day for the trump uniter, divider index. after months of deriding his rival candidates, donald j. trump, billionaire, is looking to join their ranks. he is saying he will self-fund quite a bit but no be exclusi exclusively a self-funder. today the presumptive nominee announced that stephen manuchin will be his campaign's national finance chairman. something trump didn't have or need before. trump has been talking with republican national committee about a joint fund raising agreement. there's lots of ways to raise money. how is trump going to do it and what are the risks to him for doing it. >> we don't know a lot about what the plan is. how much of the super pac will be part of this.

he's going to raise money for the party. he's going to raise money for donald trump in the normal traditional ways through bundling and party committees. that's what we understand at this point. the super pac piece is still unknown. this guy is not that well known. we don't know how good he's going to be at his job. that's another outstanding question. >> there's four ways to raise money. one way is super pac money. this guy, based on his resume and based on trump's rolodex, i think they will raise big checks. i don't think trump will be raising $2500 checks. he can also raise money for the party. the fourth is small dollar, internet and fund raising which trump has been good at. say trump needs to raise a billion, probably more but let's say a billion.

if he raises 50 bucks from ten million people and 2 million from 250 people. you start playing with the scale. i think he could raise bigger checks from people, more than two million. he could get more than 50 bucks from the low dollar donors. that's not an exact formula. it's doable in those two pots if trump starts asking people for money on the web, more than he has and if his new finance chair and trump can go to rich people in las vegas, in the sports world and movies and say, i need 5 million. i need 10 million. >> here's the biggest problem. he has goldman sachs ties, he's a hedge fund guy. i don't care about any of that and i don't think any voters care. no one focuses on this. they might focus on his powerful argument that he's made that he's not beholden to anymore. he's not going to be able to

make that argument anymore. >> here is the key, small dollar donors. the five and $10 million checks, he say these are my friend. these are people close to retirement and never going to ask me for anything. they will sign a pledge. never ask the government for anything. >> good luck with that. >> i'm telling you it's possible. >>. a preview of the water this summer. we'll keep talking about paul ryan and his not yet trump position. all of that and so much more right after these words from our sponsors. houston: news alert... new from the makers of claritin, clarispray. ♪ welcome back. clarispray is a nasal allergy spray that contains the #1 prescribed, clinically proven ingredient. nothing is more effective at relieving your sneezing, runny nose and nasal congestion. return to the world with new clarispray.

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a picture of himself eating a taco bowl and wrote the best

ones are made in trump tower grill. i love hispanics, end quote. in response, hillary clinton put out her own tweet saying i love hispanics and quoting trump yesterday, saying they will be deported. there's two schools of thought about the best way for clinton to take on trump. one is to paint him as erratic and unpredictable. here is clinton using that tactic today earlier while speaking at the california african-american museum in los angeles, california. >> donald trump turns around and says i don't care if other countries get nuclear weapons. that's the kind of risk this country cannot afford to take. that is dangerous. it's like a loose cannon that we cannot afford. >> there's another approach that's similar to clinton's tweet about the taco bowl and that's to convince voters that a trump presidency would be awful for women, minorities and other

important demographic groups that matter especially our pro-democratic or tend to be. listen to how clinton framed it this morning when calling into a los angeles times edtorial board. >> the whole idea of playing the woman card, which he charged that i was doing and by extension other women were doing, has just lit a fire under so many women across the country. i think it's because they see in his attacks on me or on megyn kelly or carly fiorina, or whoever else he is attacking, really a much broader attack on them. >> hillary clinton has gone after trump in two different ways. she's gone after the loose cannon thing and the attack him on his policies and his attitude are bad for certain constituency groups. which is most effective, and

does she even have to choose? >> i'm torn on this from talking to people in both parties who say trump is such a target rich environment to try to start to define him. it's hard to choose and maybe it's better to figure out which one works and go with that. others say now is the time to define him and focus on that. i think in the end, economics will be the best thing. i think she's going to need to show people that trump would not be a good economy. part of that is to talk about his record as a business person. i think they are saving that. she's going to talk about how she would help the economy and he can't. >> you pick a frame and frame up your opponent and decide exactly the one way you go after them again and again on that frame. i have a feeling, i don't know which is better but i have a

feeling they're not going to choose. i think they will use multiple frames. they have a little time. he's not in it for you. he's not on your side. >> i think the ball for trump for them will be unacceptable. he's unacceptable with the temperament, record, statements he's made. just unacceptable. i think that can be considered a single frame. trump is going to come after her as crooked. >> a lot of other things. >> report out some of her aides has been e-mailed by the fbi. you can bet trump will be talking about that. republican race wrapped up. hillary clinton is creeping closer to the finish line.

attention will turn to the party conventions in the summer. both are in july. right a that, back to back week, the democrats meet in philadelphia for the 25 and 28th. both hold more than 20,000 people for sports but fewer for the convention. they will be big venues. john, right now what do you think a clinton convention looks like and a trump convention looks like. >> republicans are heading for a d disaster, riots in the street and philadelphia will be a love fest.

they've avoided the speckale. >> you now have paul ryan, the speculation will revive. ryan is doing this because he wants to still stop trump and be the vehicle to do that. that's going to be a mess. i think the democratic convention is potentially going to be a showcase for people testifying on behalf of hillary clinton just the way they did in boston for mitt romney in his convention where they talked about romney, his work with people, with people he knew. i think you'll see some of that. that's my speculation.

the clintons have tried to do this in the past. one more time, high profile way. up next, we're talking to a man who has worked closely with paul ryan. along with gop strategist. much, much, much more right after this. was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.

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moments ago, chris christie said he would reach out to paul ryan to see what his concerns are about supporting donald trump. joining us from chicago to talk about this story line is mary madiline. dan, you're not the horse's mouth but you have a lot of encounters with the horse's mouth. tell us what's going through the speaker's mind at this moment when donald trump's trying to unify the party and the speaker seems to not be on board. >> he believes it's incumbent upon donald trump to unify the party. it's not paul ryan's job to unify the party. it's the presumptive nominee's job to unify the party. he was struck by these calls for party unity that everyone should fall in line. he's not against getting behind

the unifying figure. if there's some sort of apprehension about unify right now, that's donald trump's job. that's not paul ryan's job. >> a more basic question. he's asked if he would support him. he's a voter and citizen. he said he's not there yet. what's required on donald trump's part? >> i'll tell you what paul ryan has been saying. he has serious questions about donald trump's temperament to be commander in chief. his positions on issues. he's not providing a checklist. he's saying over the next couple of months in this election, earn my support. the way donald trump has behaved in the last few months, gives people a lot of pause about whether or not he is worthy of

having their support. >> we think it's a big deal. is it or are we over reacting? >> with all due respect, i think you are overreacting. i disagree with your analysis this is some white knight effort. >> we said people might speculate about that. forget that piece. just the notion of the speaker of the house withholding his support for the nominee of his party, is that a big deal or not? >> indiana was two days ago. the call for party unity is p prefunctory. mainstream republicans are angry at the party. my analysis is paul ryan is speaking to conservatives and saying we understand that you're not about a party or a person.

he would like to hear from donald trump, as many of us who would like to, we who have reregistered as libertarians. he has to flush out some principles that comport with why people have supported the republican party in the past. >> when did you re-register as libertarian and where do you stand on voting for trump? >> i'm a never hillary and a provisional trump. i like his attitude and i like he had the gall to put macro messaging. i just don't know enough. i think he could not only win, he would win in land slide if he could not his high school boy antics with women. he's going to force suburban women to hillary. i think he can peel off some african-americans and nontraditional voters if he runs the jobs message. i think he would be great.

>> you registered as a libertarian when? >> today. >> why did you do that? >> because i'm a republican in the jeffersonian sense. i'm not a republican for party or a person and the libertarian party represents those constitutional principles that i agree with. >> you re-registered in part over the specter that trump is the presumptive nominee. >> he's trying to steal the headlines away from paul ryan. >> we got to go do a hard break. b and you're not working for peanuts. well what if i told you that peanuts can work for you? while you guys are busy napping, peanuts are delivering 7 grams of protein and 6 essential nutrients right to your mouth. you ever see a peanut take a day off? no. peanuts don't even get casual khaki fridays. because peanuts take their job seriously.

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i said it publicly here and many places after two successive blow out elections for conservatives with a none response from washington, a lot of conservatives are angry with the party. the party was falling apart. i can still vote for republicans. i will never vote for hillary and never trump means always libertarian. >> you've left the republican party. >> i said i'm provisional. i'm a provisional trumpster. i don't know enough about trump. i know three things about his economic policy. we know everything we need know about hillary. >> would you think that's a big story if he left? >> i think it would be a juicy story for me and it would

contribute to middle tranquility. >> you're never hillary and never trump. >> no provisional. >> talking to dan now. >> the that immutable. >> i'll never be for trump. >> your friend paul ryan might be. >> yeah. >> i think that paul thought that this primary would go on for a while. no one expected cruz to drop out tuesday night. i think everybody was sort of taken aback. the notion that on tuesday donald trump, just to give one example of which i would provide a litany. on tuesday donald trump accuses ted cruz' father of being involved with the assassination of john f. kennedy and on wednesday people are outraged or thursday that paul ryan hasn't endorsed the person who has done these thing s a little absurd. chris christie really needs know, the idea that chris christie is the bridge now to people like paul ryan is amusing

in and of itself. the idea that people need to find out what the problem is. this sgguy is a problematic guy. >> okay. there's so much to talk about here. let me take it to this. this question of the bushes, the two presidents bush not saying they will stay out of it, that seems like an extraordinarily big deal. >> it's a huge deal. >> to be clear, george herbert walker bush has been involved in every presidential election since he was president. endorsed. gone to conventions. >> this is donald trump's problem. he is fractured the party. it's his job to figure out how he will win over these people. >> have you talked to anyone in trump world? have they asked you for your advice? >> i'm not going to comment on that. >> how is paul? >> paul is fine and he always

gets what he wants. if he puts together a good ground game, i'm confident trump will win. some thinks trump politics, that would be family. when it comes to the bush's they're famous for their affections for each other. if someone said of your son or brother what donald said about jeb, you'd have the same reaction. i think it's less to do with politics but family. it's not a political story. >> the party is currently divided. the speaker of the house, the governor of massachusetts says he's not going to vote for trump. >> a couple of u.s. senators. >> if the trump campaign called you for advice, and they said we want to win your vote, paul ryan's vote. we won't try to convert dan. what would you say they should do? >> three things. stop your high school antics so you can keep suburban women. they don't go to hillary. two, give an ironclad guarantee

on scotus either cruz or mike lee. ironclad on that and flush out your economic policies and stand up straight and comb your hair. >> that was really four unless you count the hair as part of the antics. >> hair and standing up is one thing. dan, i want to you this question. never trump for you. you have some connection to the varying forces that constitute the never trump movement, fund donors. those folks are still out there. is there still a never trump movement? >> yes. i think there's some donors who will just sit on the sidelines and stay out of race entirely. there's some donors who are looking for ways to find a center right candidate to be on the stage. >> who are the names? >> i'm not going to mention names. >> not the names of the people involved but the kinds of people

they might want to have run. >> i'll give you one name. ben sass is interesting. >> he said his kids need baths. >> the country hangs in the balance. we could use someone like him for next six months opinion. >> to win or to just make a point? >> to save the down ballot. to potentially throw this into the house of representatives and win and to actually make a statement about the future of the conservative movement. it should not be in the hands of this guy who is hijacking it. doesn't believe in conservative principles and has the asbestos luts wrong temperame -- absolute wrong temperament for the job. i think some donors will go to trump. the big question they're asking is i'm not going to donate to him because he's worth $10 billion. >> mary, you work for a president named bush who won 40% of the hispanic vote in 2004. you have donald trump today

sending a tweet out featuring him eating a taco bowl and saying i love spanics. this is not in the category of high school hijinks. what do you make of that as an attempt to do what? reach latino out reach. >> let me challenge and disagree with all of y'all. the reason donald trump was able to hijack the republican party, it's the same reason that any hostile takeover is always successful. the underlying element is weak. the party was weak. the party has not been for several successive election cycles responsive to its base. that's why in walks trump. he can't -- i think all these antics are -- could only be completed by him because he has this unusual and unique capacity to flick off any attacks which he'll be able to do with hillary

clinton too. the more you attack him, the stronger he gets. >> i appreciate that answer. answer me this question. what do you think about his tweet today? >> i don't tweet. i'm not a twitter person. i think that's what his people love and people like, don't like it. i don't think it's dispositive in any way. he's character and he has a good jobs message if he would get around back to it. >> i want you two to talk amongst yourselves. mary thinks donald would win. you think he could not win. you guys debate that. >> we're not going to debate. >> we love each other. >> what states do you think that obama won that trump could win? >> let me say something that the

chittering classes. let me repeat something you already know. we've been wrong at every single juncture. i live in the real world. >> answer dan's question. >> i didn't say trump is reagan. i'm saying that people are sick of political correctness. they're sick of identity politics. he's got a highly motivated, low propensity voter base. >> what states is he going to win that romney lost? >> those that you have been moving into the purple categories from colorado, new mexico. i don't think pennsylvania. there's enough states. he has to win florida and ohio. i think he can possibly win some of those north western states that have gone democratic lately. >> romney got 42% of the latino vote in florida. slightly above 40%. what percentage do we think trump will get?

20%, 5%. i think you go through these states. i'm not asking trump to be reagan. i don't think he can preserve the romney map. that leaves us four million votes in the hole and have huge down ballot implications. >> right. currently, today. we're political light years away from the convention and the general election. he's showing the capacity, he can act presidential. he's caught the sight guys. i think he will get a greater percentage of non-traditional republican voters. i'm not a pro-trump person. i'm an anti-hillary person and liberty lover. let's not get this mushed up. >> one thing i'll agree with mary, we've all been like somewhat like humbled by getting this completely wrong over and over. we've all gone wrong. the general election does seem

like a little of a stretch. the idea he can look presidential over time, that would address the issues that paul ryan has and others. >> people generally agree that's true. talk a bit about his new finance chair who you know. >> this is someone who is not known for in the political fund raising circles. i think if trump needs to raise half a billion to a billion dollars. >> in a few months. >> most people put these kind of armies together over a period of several years. it's a very complex process. the idea you can do it in less than six months. they he's got to do it in two or three months and he's chosen someone to do this that's not known for doing this.

you need to build the kind of resources. you need a real high dollar bundling operation. >> it's all super pac and web. >> he's going to have no hard dollars. >> yeah. >> i'm going to disagree with you guys. my proof is existent. it's bernie sanders and ted cruz. it's ways to raise this money and donald trump's unique capacity to get plenty of earned media. nobody has gotten in the history -- >> i believe mary just agreed with mark. let's end on that. mary agreed with mark. >> welcome to the libertarian party. congratulations. >> that's a big thing. >> it's a new day. >> it's great news. >> still a republican. two former obama speech writers weigh in on trump and clinton. we'll be right back.

in just a moment we'll have john lubot. stay tuned. we'll be right back.

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maybe, they should have had our next guest read the teleprompter instead of me.

they put the words in the teleprompter. you are both awesome to be here. you're highly qualified. i want to ask you about the topic that everyone in the world is talking about. >> climate change? >> i want to get your views on that. if it were you and you were advising donald trump, would you have considered it advisable to send out a tweet celebrating cinco de mayo eating a taco bowl. >> it's not a good tweet. a taco salad is not like an ethically traditional dish, i don't think. it's like a cuban on white bread. >> i like that you've seized on that as the biggest problem with that tweet.

what's your thought about that? >> i'm sure what he said, i love his pan -- hispanics had nothing to do with taco bell. a couple of days ago people thought we would get a disciplined donald trump. i don't know if he can pull that off for the next six months. i think it's who he is. >> trump versus clinton, neither is a perfect candidate. >> that's an annoying way to put it. >> that's true. >> leave their issue positions aside for a moment but just in terms of political skill, are they equal. is one better than the other? don't say you objects to the premise. candidate performance matters. >> sure it does. we're in the middle of a national kcrisis.

he's not a normal candidate. it's like when a plane crashes, a bunch of things have to go wrong. a pilot has to make a mistake and we're one mistake away from the plane crashing into the mountain. is trump a good politician? i don't know. it's a nightmare. i don't know. what do you think? >> i think his skills are overestimated. i think he's captured 40% of the republican primary in a 17-person field and no one laid a glove on him for the first three months. he was able to consolidate a certain base and it's party that's very broken and a party, if anyone underestimated anything, it was the state of the republican party, which is much weaker institution than the democratic party. >> i want to double back to his skills. they control the house, senate, lots of governorship. >> on national level. >> it's only broken as a presidential party. >> as a party that needs to win

national elections or soon win statewide in states that are purplish. >> let me ask you the question your colleague refused to answer. who is a better political athlete? >> i think hillary clinton. >> because? >> because she's been through many of these elections before. she's been in public life a long time. i think she'll be -- i think donald trump will continue to send out taco tweets for the next six months. he'll turn off large, large majorities of people and she won't. i think that she has her approval ratings are slightly underwater now but at the end of the day, you're not going to win a presidential election with 70% unapproval questions. >> i'll answer you question. >> thank you for stooping so low. >> i guess that if you put aside donald trump's insane policy positions, he does come off as

authentic. he does do things that are quite charming if you can forget the other stuff. that's not what it takes. there's a political value to being disciplined and maintaining a coherent agenda and message over time and not saying things that alienate, 60, 70% of the country. for his many qualities that have worked amongst him, he's not geared to win a national election. >> i want to come back to you on this question just because i have a vivid memory about one of the nights during the republican nomination fight where trump did one of his more disciplined performances. i believe the first one in florida. y you tweeted and a source urging democrat democrats saying everybody has to take this seriously. are you saying that's not an acknowledgement that the guy had some performance skills in. >> it's less performance skills than he had, he has certain

messages that cut across party lines or traditional party lines. the populous nature of his message. combinie ining anti-trade. he cobbled together a message that when very disciplined can appeal to different kinds of people. he said i think there's a world where if donald trump could stay on his issues message, he could be competitive. i think that's time has passed because i think he's done so much damage to himself and so many people are paying attention and there's so few people in the country who haven't formed an opinion about donald trump. that's what i believe. >> let me ask you as a democrat, shift the focus from donald trump to hillary clinton. she has a challenge going forward. she's likely to be the democratic nominee, almost certain to be. bernie sanders has done

something extraordinary. he's created energy that she's not connected with well at all. >> i would say that comparatively speaking he's winning young voters. she needs to get a bunch of those people to vote for her if she's going to win. >> the most important thing is making clear to the bernie sanders support ers sheers she' their side and share a lot of same goals and i think there's going to be a big event with bernie sanders and hillary clinton on the same stage. it's going to do a lot to assuage that worry. that's playing out and that's great. the republican side is very

abnormal. that's very scary to a will the of people and for the reservations that people may have about hillary, some of which are justified there's going to be a sense of incredible purpose to getting behind her. >> you're pretty exercised about the project that trump could win or the concept of him being the republican nominee. >> i think we all live with the threat of republican dom chance and bad things happening and the great thing about our system is it has all these checks from coming to fruition. we're way too close to something very, very dangerous for my comfort. >> thank you. we'll be right back. you live life your way. we can help you retire your way, too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can.

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live claritin clear. welcome back. what does donald trump think of paul ryan's statement? trump wrote i'm not ready to support speaker ryan's agenda. perhaps we with work together in the future and come together about what's best for the american people. they have been treated so badly

for so long it's about time for politicians to put them first. >> i don't think love is in the air. we'll have more on ryan-trump all night on bloombe bloombergpolitics.com. until tomorrow, thanks for watching. >> coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. are you with him or against him? let's play hardball. >> good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. not ready for trump. that's the word from paul ryan said this afternoon donald trump needs to change his cadence. that's his word. cut out the bullying and reassure conservatives he shares their principles. >> to be perfectly candid with