good afternoon to you, i'm chris hayes in new york. we are monitoring right now a press conference that has been called by the attorney general of the united states, loretta lynch, in which she will be responding to a press conference called earlier today by north carolina governor who has announced his state is suing the federal government over the department of justice's letter to north carolina, telling them their law, the so-called bathroom law, the controversial discriminatory piece of legislation is in violation of the civil rights act. that is going to play out in front of us. we'll keep our eyes on that podium there. we expect loretta lynch to talk about the federal government's position shortly. now, moments ago, a chance for hillary clinton to publicly hit back at donald trump. she didn't take it. focusing instead on an occasion in business at a virginia roundtable, all that after a

huge change of tone from the presumptive republican nominee. listen to what he told lester holt just last week and then his comments from the past 48 hours. >> i'd like to see a very high level, policy-oriented campaign, if they treat me properly, i'm going to treat them properly. it would be a beautiful thing to see. >> she's married to a man who hurt many women, and hillary, if you look and see, hillary hurt many women, the women that he abused. do you remember the famous, i did not have sex with that woman and then a couple of months later, i'm guilty. and she's taking negative ads on me. >> trump has been all over the map on tax rates for the highest earners, the rich. now he's doing his best, i guess to clarify, sort of. we'll tell you more about that. plus his feud with house speaker paul ryan and the new role for new jersey governor and trump endorser chris christie coming up in a bit. but right now, loretta lynch is

at the podium. let's listen in. >> thank you all for being here. i'm joined the head of the civil rights division here at the department of justice. we are here to announce a significant law enforcement action regarding north carolina's public facilities privacy and security act. also known as house bill 2. now the north carolina general assembly passed house bill 2 in special session on march 23rd of this year. the bill sought to strike down an anti-discrimination provision in a recently passed charlotte, north carolina, ordnance, as well as to require transgender people in public agencies to use the bathrooms consistent with their sex as noted at birth, rather than the bathrooms that fit their gender identity. the bill was signed into law that same day. and in so doing, the legislature and the governor placed north carolina in direct opposition to federal laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of

sex and gender identity. more to the point, they created state sponsored discrimination against transgender individuals, who simply seek to engage in the most private of functions in a place of safety and security. a right taken for granted by most of us. last week, our civil rights division notified state officials in north carolina that house bill 2 violates federal civil rights laws. we asked that they certify by the end of the day today that they will not comply with or implement house bill 2's restriction on rest room access. an extension was requested by north carolina and was under active consideration. but instead of replying to our offer or providing a certification, this morning, the state of north carolina and its governor chose to respond by suing the department of justice. as a result of their decisions, we are now moving forward. today, we are filing a federal civil rights lawsuit against the

state of north carolina, governor pat mccrory, the north carolina department of public safety and the university of north carolina. we are seeking a court order declaring hb 2's rest room restriction discriminatory as well as a statewide bar on its enforcement. while the lawsuit currently seeks declare tore relief, i want to note that we retain the option of curtailing federal funding to the north carolina department of public safety and the university of north carolina as this case proceeds. but this action is about a great deal more than bathrooms. this is about the dignity and the respect that we accord our fellow citizens, and the laws that we, as a people and as a country, have enacted to protect them. indeed, to protect all of us. and it's about the founding ideals that have led this country, haltingly but in the protection of fairness, inclusion and equality for all

americans. this is not the first time that we have seen discriminatory responses to historic moments of progress for our nation. we saw it in the jim crow laws that followed the emancipation proclamation. we saw it in the fierce and widespread resistance to brown v. board of education, and we saw it in the proliferation of state bans on same-sex unions that were intended to stifle any hope that gay and lesbian americans might one day be afforded the right to marry. that right of course is now recognized as a guarantee embedded in our constitution. in the wake of that historic triumph, we have seen bill after bill and state after state taking aim at the lgbt community. now, some of these responses reflect a recognizabley human fear of the unknown and a discomfort with the uncertainty of change. but this is not a time to act out of fear. this is a time to summon our national virtues of inclusivity,

versity, of compassion and open mindedness. what we must never do is turn on our neighbors, our family members, our fellow americans, for something that they cannot control and deny what makes them human. and this is why none of us can stand by, when a state enters the business of legislating identity and insists that a person pretend to be something or someone that they are not. or invents a problem that does not exist as a pretext for discrimination and harassment. and let me speak now directly to the people of the great state, the beautiful state, my home state, of north carolina. you have been told that this law protecting vulnerable populations from harm, but that is just not the case. instead, what this law does is inflict further indignity on a population that has already suffered far more than its fair share. this law provides no benefit to society and all it does is harm

innocent americans. and instead of turning away from our neighbors, our friends and our colleagues, let us instead, learn from our history and avoid repeating the mistakes of our past. and let us reflect on the obvious but often neglected lesson that state-sanctioned discrimination never looks good and never works in hindsight. it was not so very long ago that states, including north carolina, had other signs above rest rooms, water fountains and on public accommodations, keeping people out, based on a distinction without a difference. we've moved beyond those dark days, but not without a tremendous amount of pain and suffering and an ongoing fight to keep moving forward. let us write a different story this time. let us not act out of fear and misunderstanding but out of the values of inclusion and diversity and regard for all

that make our country great. and let me also speak directly to the transgender community itself. some of you have lived freely for decades and others of you are still wondering how you can possibly live the lives that you were born to lead. but no matter how isolated, no matter how afraid and how alone you may feel today, know this, that the department of justice and indeed the entire obama administration want you to know that we see you, we stand with you, and we will do everything we can to protect you going forward. and please know that history is on your side. this country was founded on the promise of equal rights for all, and we have always managed to move closer to that ideal. little by little, day by day. and it may not be easy, but we will get there together. let me also thank my colleagues in the civil rights division, who have devoted many hours to this case so far, and who will

devote many more to seeing it through. at this time, i would turn the podium over to anita, whose determined leadership on this and so many other issues has been essential to the justice department's work. van eata? >> thank you. >> that was attorney general loretta lynch, with an extremely strongly worded statement about the law in north carolina, hb 2, a law that she said was discriminatory. she talked about it being a pretext for harassment. she addressed the voters of "my home state of north carolina" and compared this law, which mandates the use of certain bathrooms for transgender bathrooms to the jim crow laws that had their own signs over bathrooms. i want to bring in ari melber, who has been following this case. ari, first of all, are you at all surprised by the tone of that address? >> chris, that was the most powerful embrace of transgender rights i've ever seen by a federal official in a senior

official in american history. this is a relatively new area of legal and political dispute. but as you know from covering these things, it matters a great deal when the top law enforcement officer does something like what they're doing today, which is seeking a federal block on this type of law. and then furthermore, speaks about it and embraces it that way. the attorney general of the united states saying "we see you" to people who identify as transgender who have been through these battles and disputes, incredibly powerful, and i would say, quite rare. >> take us through the law here. basically you have a finding from the civil rights department from the department of justice, saying this is in violation of the civil rights act. what do they find it specifically in violation of, when they wrote the letter, saying you cannot enforce this? >> the issue with the bathrooms, is essentially, the doj is taking the position that by excluding people from bathrooms based on their, shall we say,

born gender, and not their chosen gender, or gender identity, and all of these can be terms of art and difficult, but by gender identity, they basically mean what people identify themselves as. and so the state going in and saying, you don't have that right, this is a matter of civil rights, to identify as the gender you choose, is itself discriminatory. the other point procedurally, attorney general lynch also emphasized that the doj tried to give an off ramp here, tried to give north carolina an opportunity. they felt that was completely rebuffed and that's why they're taking north carolina to court. >> and so they are countersuing, looking for declare tore relief, to have a judge strike down that portion of the law. this is going to be a high-stakes battle. ari melber, thank you very much for that. we may come back to pete williams who was in the courtroom, but katy tur, susan

del percio, steve kornacki and chris jansing. let's talk about what we just saw. to me, this is, i think, an unanticipated, high profile now, political culture war battle in the midst of the campaign between a state of the union and the federal government in one of the high profile battles that we've seen in the last 60, 70 years. >> absolutely. when the governor sent that letter to the federal government, he said, i am doubling down. many thought that since they were going to keep the $4 billion in state aid away, that would give him an out, because i also don't think this is a fight the governor really wanted to have, except that it must have been polling really well, because he's up for re-election, which is one of the things that is probably in play here. >> are you surprised by the politics of what has happened in the last day in so far as there was tremendous pressure. that pressure was that brought

to bear in north carolina, struck me as not just lefty activist pressure, but across fortune 500 companies, tremendous widespread -- >> that's the other part. the attorney general of north carolina is the person running against the current governor who is up for re-election. i think he's looking to make this also a fiscal issue. because you have so many big businesses saying, i am not going to go to north carolina. you have not only just music venues, but other companies saying we don't want to do business with this state if this is the law you have in place. they're in for a rumble both on the social issue and on the fiscal issue. >> on the other side of it, chris, you've been on the campaign trail and we should stipulate that the attorney general is independent from the white house. they don't reach across and tell them to make these determinations. but this is the obama administration waging what is the most high profile federal battle for transgender rights in american history. >> and it's worth pointing out, i think it was a year ago now, they opened the first

transgender bathroom at the white house. it was in the eisenhower office building. this is something that the president, his senior staff, they believe in very strongly. i don't know that there was a more celebratory day in the couple years that i covered the white house than the day the supreme court ruled on gay marriage. and also frankly, somewhat of a surprise. they were feeling like they were on pins and needles. but this is something that in the last year of his presidency barack obama is going to be very pleased if he can see, because one of the things he has talked about is the law not keeping up with social norms. >> here is what i find fascinating. after the supreme court decision that found a constitutional right for marriage equality, there was a question about whether the trajectory of this would be like loving v. virginia which struck down bans on interracial marriage. that was struck down and there was no weird political movement against that decision. that settled. row v. wade on the other hand,

that's the opposite. there's a 30, 40-year political battle brewing every single day about it. the question, we are now seeing intense politics around backlash to this movement for equality. >> the interesting thing, looking at the politics in north carolina, it's been one poll on this in north carolina, and found it's a slim majority support for the state law. >> for the law? >> that you just heard the attorney general going after and saying is unconstitutional. so the governor, the interesting story there in north carolina is mccrory ran fewer years ago as a moderate, business friendly republican. one of the stories has been, has he been forced into an agenda across the board by a very conservative republican legislature that maybe he didn't want to pursue if he had his drothers. is this one of those examples? on the one hand, there's the potential loss of revenue from the businesses that are against it. on the other hand, this is a guy running for re-election, with an issue right now, that at this moment, and we'll see if the politicking changes it, but at

this moment, he's on the right side of the decision politically in his state. >> and here's the question for a broader audience. you've been in rooms day in and day out on the campaign trail. you get to hear when the cheers are loudest and when they're not. ted cruz went hard on this issue in indiana. in my opinion, somewhat desperately, ginning up anger about this, it didn't seem to pan out based on the results in indiana. it's not something that trump has been hammering on. where do you see the republican base on this issue? >> it is hard to tell. and i think that the fact that donald trump did not come out against it is very telling. the fact that he framed it in a business way is also very telling. >> he took both sides. >> he said -- >> i wouldn't pass it, but it's up to the states. >> he said it didn't make sense and caitlyn jenner can use whichever bathroom at my building, which she went on to

do. he's the republican nominee, and that says a lot about where the republican electorate is. as much as we've pinned them to social issues over the years, i think the reality is they're more economically minded than we've been giving them credit for and the social issues are taking a back door now even when there might be pushback in private homes about this push for equality. >> this is not someone who ran as a traditional on things like lgbt rights or abortion. he ran to immigration and other things that have a social balance. loretta lynch is taking questions. we have our eyes on that. a lot of things happening on the campaign today. stay with me, we'll be right back. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medicatns but still experience the symptoms

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we are looking live at a press conference from loretta lynch, who is now taking questions from the press after directing the civil rights division at the department of justice, to address the nuts and bolts of a federal lawsuit and counterlawsuit against the state of north carolina over their hotly contested bathroom bill, hb 2, that requires people to use bathrooms of a gender that is not the one they identify with, if they are trans. this is a pretty big moment in the history of this particular civil rights battle and we will continue to monitor that as loretta lynch takes questions. lots of things also happening today on the campaign trail. let's get to the emerging battle between donald trump and hillary clinton. this has gotten ugly early, which i don't think is that

surprising, but here's what i do think is interesting. there are a lot of different ways that you can imagine a republican candidate going after hillary clinton. she's tremendous unpopular with republicans. she's got pretty high net negatives among the populace in general. she's had a long career of public service. you can attack everything from the speech she gave in china in the 1990s, to the handling of benghazi to her votes as a center. instead, trump has been focused almost entirely on bill clinton and his record with women in a personal sense and the fact that hillary clinton is essentially sort of a female aaffirmative action case, that she's only there because she's a woman. listen to some of the sound from this weekend, trump talking about hillary clinton and women. take a listen.=b,ç >> hillary clinton's husband abused women more than any man that we know of in the history of politics. right? i mean, have you ever read what hillary clinton did to the women that bill clinton had affairs

with? he was impeached for lying about what happened with a woman. she was an unbelievably nasty, mean, enabler, and what she did to allot of those women is disgraceful. >> what do you make of this tactic as the lead tactic of the new presumptive nominee and leader of the republican party, donald trump? >> it's clear he wants to go after her qualifications too, saying the only reason she's qualified to run is because she's a woman. >> is that true? >> absolutely not true. that being said, i think he is actually, knowing hillary clinton is going to be using surrogates, donald trump is baiting bill clinton. we all know what happens when bill clinton has enough. >> that's right. >> i think that's what he's really looking to do and drag him into this campaign, so he becomes an open target. >> what do you think of that? sometimes i think we imputt a level of strategic thinking that

donald trump that i am unconvinced exists. >> when he went after hillary the last time on this and he put out that ad, it turned out that bill clinton had to avoid press lines. he got completely off his game. >> what do you think of that? >> i think there's probably a degree of that. but ultimately donald trump is not going to be able to go through her past speeches on various topics. he doesn't have -- i don'think he has the patience to do that. i think what he's done so far on the primary campaign trail is use what is popular, what is easy to understand, and what is outrageous in order to get headlines. the more outrageous the better. we've seen this a number of times. with hillary, the most outrageous think you can do is go after her for her husband's infidelities and this is getting loud applause lines at his rallies. this is a primary, yes. >> that's the problem. >> but donald trump feeds off crowds. and he mimics them and mirrors them. that's what he's been doing so

far. to give you some numbers so far, 70% of women in this country have not just an unfavorable view of him, but many have a very unfavorable view of him. his polling with women has actually gone down since january. it's gotten worse than it was and he's has a big problem with independent women. in order to win he's got to appeal to all independents, including women. >> let me bring in jessica mcintosh who has endorsed hillary clinton. i want to play you, jess, get a response. it's broader than hillary clinton. it's almost like he's embodying an online men's rights activists. here's trump talking about how women have it easier. take a listen. all right. basically, all the men are petrified to speak to women anymore. the women raise their voice. the women get it better than we do. this strikes me as something that will be a defining theme of this campaign because donald trump wants to make it a theme. >> yes, he seems like he's

absolutely compelled to go into this strange gender place that he knows brings him down in the polls. i think at this point, we have to take that this is part of his strategy. alienating women is a part of his strategy. i don't see how it can be beneficial to do that, but that is what he is absolutely committed to doing. you don't get to 7 in 10 women having very or somewhat unfavorable opinions of you and those aren't just democrats. he stands up there and says, women have it better than men do, which women of all political stripes understands to be a gross misreading of reality in america today. >> and this is a guy who frankly celebrates his own infidelities. what's so crazy about this, and i thought, he's not going to go there, he's too vulnerable. he doesn't think he's vulnerable anyplace. he wrote in the art of the comeback, i looked this up, if i

told the real stories of my experiences with women, often seemingly very happily married and important women, this book would be a guaranteed best-seller. i've had them all, beautiful, famous, successful, married. secretly the world's biggest names. >> that doesn't even go into what he said to howard stern over the years. >> right. >> and buzzfeed has done a really good job of putting that out there. >> jess, this goes to you. the other theory, we're talking about the strategy, katy makes a great point at how good he is playing to the room. he's giving that room what they want to hear. of course it got played outside the room. there's an idea of this being strategic. i want to give him his due that these are genuinely felt beliefs by donald trump. i think he believes she's gotten as far as she has because she's a woman and that women have it better than men do. >> if he does, then he does. good for him, he's somehow missed the entirety of american reality. i think women of all political

stripes, and like ending gender discrimination is a really big issue for republican women. he went on to say women are paid more than men in that same speech. republican women, independent women and democratic women understand that's simply not true. when you elect a leader, you're looking for somebody who is able to provide real practical solutions to the problem that you face. if the person running says you don't face any problems, that's a shocking and concerning thing for women and it's going to be really tough for them to win them over if he not only won't provide a solution, doesn't agree there's a problem. >> jess, i'm going to come back to you in a second. but thanks for joining us. you guys stick here. on the other side of this break, we'll have pete williams from d.c. on what we just saw from loretta lynch. don't go anywhere. [ light snoring ] hmmmmmm... hmmmmm... hmmmmm...

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>> know this, this the department of justice and indeed

the entire obama administration want you to know that we see you, we stand with you, and we will do everything we can to protect you going forward. and please know that history is on your side. >> i want to bring in pete williams of the justice department. very strong words from the attorney general. what do you make of this in terms of where this stands in line with similar kinds of actions brought by the federal government on state laws? >> reporter: well, a couple of points, first of all, those comments from the attorney general, she said she wanted to address transgendered people directly. and that was where that statement came from that you heard. but what we didn't get from the attorney general is a lot of legal explanation about the lawsuit. that was headed by the acting head of the civil rights division. what you heard from the attorney general was a passionate discussion of why she thinks this is a pivotal moment for her home state of north carolina. she said that the country and individual states have faced

dark moments before, moments of fear, when there's change, and she said this is an opportunity for the state and the country to respond in the right way. now, on the law, the justice department is making a very basic argument here, and this is really what the disagreement comes down to. does federal law bar discrimination against transgender people, yes or no? the obama administration says yes, that the law, both the general title 7 civil rights now and the title 9 part that applies specifically to schools, say that you don't discriminate on the basis of sex. and when you make distinctions based on gender, that is the same thing, that is discrimination. the state in its lawsuit today said no, the government has the law wrong. so you have competing lawsuits, they'll probably be consolidated to the same federal judge who will decide who's right and who's wrong here. the one thing the government has going for it here, a decision

last month is a decision from the fourth circuit court of appeals which has jurisdiction over north carolina, which at least in terms of the title 9 part, this is the law that says schools have to have equal facilities. if you have a basketball program for boys, you have to have one for girls. they say -- the fourth circuit said they were deferring to the education department's interpretation of that law, which says that schools can't do what north carolina now wants its public places in schools to do. so that would seem to be the law here. curiously, the lawsuit filed today by north carolina doesn't make any mention at all of title 9. it totally talks about the general civil rights law, title 7. but they're both going to come out. these lawsuits i guess would be consolidated and the judge will set some sort of timeline for having a trial. one thing to notice here is what the state is asking for, they say to the judge, we want you to declare that our law is not discriminatory.

the justice department said the opposite, we want to declare it's discriminatory and put a hold on it. the attorney general said while the legal action is pending, the government still reserves the right to cut off federal funds and the attorney general said today that's going to depend on how discussions go with the university of north carolina. but there's billions of dollars at stake. >> great point, thank you, pete. now to house speaker paul ryan saying he's willing to step down as convention chair if donald trump asked him to. in his statement one day after trump old our colleague chuck todd he wouldn't rule out blocking ryan from serving in that role. >> if he can't endorse you, do you think he should be chair of the convention? >> i don't want to mention now. i'll see after. i will give you a very solid answer if that happens, about one minute after that happens. but there's no reason to give it right now. >> it sounds like i know what the answer is, but you don't want to say it yet. >> no, it's inappropriate. >> you're not going to issue a public threat?

>> i don't think that's going to happen. the party's coming together. i have tremendous numbers of endorsements. >> luke russert is on capitol hill. luke, convince me this is not a case of paul ryan saying don't throw me in the briar patch, because he would love nothing more than to not be running the republican convention in cleveland this summer. >> reporter: i think it's fair to say that given the circumstances of what a donald trump convention would be, even though the fact that this one is not going to be contested from where we sit from here, it's not necessarily ryan's style. trump is very brash. his advisers have said he wants to inject more showbusiness into the convention, so this is something that ball ryan is not by nature apt to, that is showbusiness. he's much more of a somber, serious politician in that regard. all that being said, i think a lot of that hinges on what happens in their meeting on thursday. all eyes on capitol hill for that. ryan did say to the milwaukee journal sentinel today, that if

donald trump wanted him to step down as chairman, he's willing. we'll see how that plays out. i think the differences between these two men, chris, they are significant. and not only do they have to do with the bombastic comments that trump has made, such as calling for a ban on all muslims coming to the united states, not quick enough to disavow association with david duke of the kkk, on free trade, a lot of it has to do with how ryan views trump not respecting the executive role. it's something that a lot of the conservatives that make up the house gop conference have a real issue with. when they see someone like trump that says, i'm going to do this, i'm going to do that, i'm not going to respect these people, basically i'm going to do whatever i want, congress be damned, that's really the core of the issue ryan has with trump on top of the bombastic things.

>> luke russert, thank you very much for that update. >> indeed. msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber joins the table now. all right, let's start with this. you've been immersed for your sins in the rules of the republican convention. [ laughter ] which was a period of life you're never going to get back and it turns out we're not going to have a contested convention. but there is some convention minutia which is still applicable. if trump wanted to against the will of the speaker of the house, remove him as chair of the convention, can he do it? >> trump can do it and quite easily. as we've learned from prep for a contested convention, the rules are written by each convention. rule 41 says there's a temporary committee, organization, and they pick the chair and they can pick whomever they want. on the politics, beyond the rules, i think donald trump has every right to expect a chair to supports him --

>> hundred percent agree. he's in the right on this. >> so this is both a briar patch and a match made in hell if you didn't do it. so ryan's got to come along, right? or you get someone else who knows the rules, because it's house rules. so there's a finite number of people who can handle that chairing job. it's a small group of people. >> louie gohmert, what's he doing in july. >> and boehner. >> boehner can make his comeback. we know he likes trump more than cruz. i think he'll endorse trump. he's trump-curious, as i like to use the term. [ laughter ] >> you don't think he's loving this? the history of donald trump, you go back to his early days in new york when he was making these deals to build trump tower. he loves going against the establishment. he absolutely thrives on it and he's got sarah palin and ben carson being his attack dogs on this. >> i don't think he could function if he didn't have somebody to fight against. >> right. >> it's been in the media for so

long, the media is always going to be there, and he's enjoying this fight with ryan more than anything else. >> ari makes a good point. it's crazy to have someone chair your convention who is not endorsing you. that's nuts. that's not the way it works. that said, imagine, paul ryan is the most powerful republican in the united states of america. he's two heart beats from president of the united states. right? and he is getting rolled by this guy who wasn't even a republican for a long period of time, probably going to get kicked out, and now there's like a public rift between the party's nominee and the most powerful republican office holder. >> and the most powerful republican paul ryan is saying, you know what, donald trump really doesn't share a lot of the republican principles and values, so if he doesn't want me to be chair, i'm fine with that, because he has to continue to fight for what he believes will be good for his conference.

donald trump is running against the establishment and running for him. he's not running to help other people get elected or the party. >> i'm so glad you said what he believes is best for his conference. because the beliefs at this point are taking a back seat to how everyone's going to survive this train wreck alive. up next, hillary clinton commenting moments ago on donald trump going after her and bill clinton's relationship. welcome to the next six months.

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i'm going to continue to really reach out to people, to listen to people, and make the case for the kind of president that i would be. >> that's hillary clinton, i think, talking to our own andrea mitchell in stone ridge, virginia. virginia not a state that is on the primary calendar in the future. that's a crucial battleground state. west virginia will be voting tomorrow. we have our panel here at the table. here's the question that i find fascinating about that hillary clinton response. the question of the next six months, is it possible to run a substantive campaign against donald trump? can you essentially -- >> hasn't worked so far. >> exactly. hasn't worked in the primary. again, is the general election -- there's a hundred million people who will vote then. whole new ball game. does that electorate respond by saying, i will not engage with the non-sense and here are my plans on opiate addiction?

>> and is there between making a statement, anti-establishment, anti-washington, you went to washington, you said you were going to do x, y and z and you didn't do any of it, and oh, we're getting down to the wire, who's going to have the finger on the button, who's go to see whether or not our kids can have a better life than we did? but, boy, it has not worked so far. >> here's where i think the american system works against itself. i think this is very dragged out. and i think people have -- yeah. >> you think? >> i know this first hand. people have a hard time keeping their focus on it day to day. so when donald trump, like it or not, bring entertainment to it, by refusing to play by the rules, by going out and saying unimaginable things, people are glued to their television in a way they have not been glud glued to politics in decades. i spent time in london, watched their last election.

it lasted six weeks. it's about issues and sometimes bacon sandwiches and they go out and vote and it's done. >> for donald trump, essentially was attention was the most valuable commodity. even if it's negative attention. >> absolutely. it's going to continue to aid him. as much as you want to discount his policy positions and the substance of what he says, you cannot discount his ability to captivate an audience and the audience right now is the american electorate. we'll have to see where that goes come august, september. >> when it comes down to it, whose negatives are going down and up -- or favorable numbers if you want to look at that way. when donald trump started attacking any of his opponents, they attacked back, cruz, rubio, all of their unfavorables went higher. hillary clinton can she potentially lower her unfavorables -- >> also let me just say this, you're talking about favorables and unfavorables, which are key. the question, do the american

electorate care whether the minimum wage goes up or down? do they care if tax rates at the top 1% go up or down? do they care about the future of a transitioning economy? all of the basic things one might address, which are totally absent from all of these exchanges and have nothing to do with favorable and unfavorable. it's a testable hypothesis about whether the american electorate cares about that, i believe they do. and i think attention and infamy are not the same as popularity. >> you asked a question. does hillary clinton's response to these kind of attacks work? i think the answer is no. no way at all, ever, will this work. the question of a political campaign, people are saying something about you and what is your response to that? the american public will not read her response as a direct response. >> that's an interesting point.

marco rubio weighed in on facebook to make some news in the race and we'll bring you that news if you don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. allergy spray from the makers of zyrtec®. powerful relief from nasal allergy symptoms, all day and all night. try new rhinocort® allergy spray. create your own seafood trios you can try something new with every bite. pick 3 of 9 all-new creations for $15.99. like baked lobster alfredo chimichurri shrimp and crab cakes bursting with crab meat.

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compare.com shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. all right, we are back with some news -- i'm like, who is that? that's marco rubio talking to voters. haven't seen that in a while. today taking to facebook to say the following about the possibility of being on the ticket with donald trump. while republican voters have chosen donald trump as the presumptive jop nominee, my

previously stated reservations about his policies remain unchanged. he will be best served by a running mate who fully embraces his campaign. saying he doesn't want to be considered for vice president. >> i don't think that's that strong of a statement. >> really? >> i think i absolutely will not take it, don't even call me -- >> i've never understood this media fetish with a denial. if you're at home, do you want to go to sushi? no. you would not go to sushi under any circumstances? >> that's what rubio is saying. it's old sushi, it's disgusting. >> he could be very hungry. that's the point. [ all speak at once ] >> why is he doing this? >> and don't discount the fact that he still may want to have some sense of relevance and

florida is a key state going into the general election. so he could be playing -- >> i don't imagine he hurt himself in his argument about his ability to facilitate a higher vote in florida. >> i think we've seen where his strategic decisions along the way got him. >> here's what i see happening. we talked to a member of congress who supported john kasich, republican. i think there are a lot of people with their finger in the wind a little bit about donald trump. and a lot of the reticence we're seeing are people thinking, is this guy going to change? is he going to get more disciplined? are we going to be hitching ourselves to a completely wild horse? right? that we can't control at all. and also, is he going to win or lose? a lot of what you're seeing right now, the guy is going to get his clock cleaned, he's going to lose, i don't want to be attached to a olm wait out six months, we get the party back afterwards. if that starts to change, all the hemming and hawing, i think

that will change. >> i think that's right. and the version of your question is, is he reagan or gold water? a lot of people laughed at reagan and he turned it and did great, ran on the slogan making america great again. >> and was written off as a preposterous joke in the pages of mad magazine. >> the point of my question is not that donald trump is ronald reagan. that's not what i'm saying. >> or gold water. >> right. this was a bad first week as the presumptive nominee. >> yes. >> you're not supposed to be fighting with the speaker and your formal rivals who you've dispatched and everyone else along the way. it's a bad first week. >> and tweeting a taco bowl. >> i like taco bowls. >> everyone was hoping there would be at least another month to get through california. so they got caught early and had to make a decision. >> right. and so that's the question that we'll see. >> it's also paul ryan keeping

some leverage over trump -- trying to use his leverage, saying i'm not going to endorse you until you do more to unify the party, and stop being so outrageous. >> i believe that does it for us. no, it doesn't do it for us. i was lying. you get more of us. don't go anywhere. come back and i'll wrap up the show properly. stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... try boost® 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. avanilla caramel andn double chocolate fudge. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®. what are you doing? sara, i love you, and... [phone rings] ah, it's my brother. keep going... sara, will you marry... [phone rings again] what do you want, todd???? [crowd cheering] keep it going!!!!

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"all in" downstairs. "mtp daily" starts now. if it's monday, it's some rich people, it's paul ryan, it's some vevangelical leaders, what do they all have in common? they're all fighting donald trump. but is it chaos for the presumptive nominee? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." donald trump has one heck of a task in front of him, to unify a broken republican party. we've heard the campaign promise a more toned down candidate heading into the november election, but we're not seeing anything like that yet. a more traditional campaign would be trying to shore up its own flanks after a