"all in" downstairs. "mtp daily" starts now. if it's monday, it's some rich people, it's paul ryan, it's some vevangelical leaders, what do they all have in common? they're all fighting donald trump. but is it chaos for the presumptive nominee? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." donald trump has one heck of a task in front of him, to unify a broken republican party. we've heard the campaign promise a more toned down candidate heading into the november election, but we're not seeing anything like that yet. a more traditional campaign would be trying to shore up its own flanks after a brutal

primary battle, instead trump is engaged in a multi front war, largely within his own party. so far he won't rule out overthrowing the republican convention's chairman. he's opened up a new fight, talking about toppling the foundation of modern conservative economic policy. at times, he appears to be at war with himself when it comes to major policy proposals and we haven't even mentioned his latest blistering attack on hillary and bill clinton, but you wouldn't use the term traditional for that move either. >> nobody, perhaps in the history of politics, was worse to women, or abused women more than bill clinton. and she's taking negative ads on me. he was impeached for lying about what happened with a woman. and she is going to take ads about little donald trump? i don't know. i don't think so. hillary was an enabler and she treated these women horribly.

just remember this. and some of those women were destroyed, not by him, but by the way that hillary clinton treated them after everything went down. so just remember that, folks. >> after all of the concern that trump's rise has caused many republican leaders, there are hopeful signs for the candidate when it comes to party unity. in a head-to-head match-up against hillary clinton, trump winning support from 84% of his own party. that's not quite at, but it is close to the level that john mccain and mitt romney got in the last two elections. there's plenty of work to do for trump. look at his latest fight with house speaker and convention chairman paul ryan who said he's not ready to support trump. trump's spokesperson said ryan was unfit to hold the speaker's gavel. trump is not ruling out a fight to oust ryan as the convention chairman this summer. >> if he can't endorse you, do you think he should be chair of

the convention? >> i will give you a very solid answer if that happens about one minute after it happens. >> it sounds like i know what the answer is, but you don't want to say it yet. >> now, today paul ryan responded, saying, if trump is the nominee, i'll do whatever he wants with respect to the convention. we have right now, a disunified republican party. we shouldn't sweep it under the rug without addressing it. there's a way to block ryan from chairing this summer's convention. we'll dive into the brewing storm in a minute. there's also trump's war with himself. his openness to negotiating a tax increase on the wealthy. that's the position that could run against what the relationship party has stood for for at least the last generation. we'll talk with one top economist who worries that trump could make america the north korea of economics. all of that is just the tip of the iceberg. today trump publicly slamming a conservative evangelical leader, apparently in response to this

story in "the washington post." the headline reads, there's nobody left, evangelicals feel abandoned. russell moore, a preacher with the southern baptist convention, saying, quote, this year the republican party has not just surrendered on the culture wars, they've joined the other side. trump responded today by blasting, quote, russell moore is truly a terrible representative of evangelicals and all of the good they stand for. a nasty guy with no heart. dr. russell moore joins us now, the president of the ethics and religious liberty commission at the southern bapt ift convention. you used the term surrender, but i looked at the exit polls, donald trump won the evangelical vote. so if there's a surrender, evangelicals are part of it, aren't they? >> one of the things you'll notice, church-going evangelicals were among the most reluctant to support donald trump. so it's a more complicated picture.

we see an entire country swept up in trump and clinton mania this year. the question is, what happens after that? >> when you say it's a surrender, what issues are the republican party surrendering on? >> we with have a republican party with leaders who have said for a generation that character matters, that virtue matters, and now we see some leaders wishing just to sweep those things away on behalf of a candidate who has brought really the most degraded sort of rhetoric and morality to the public square that we've seen in a long time. so it's a sad situation, not just for evangelical christians, but for anybody who believes that morality and character matters in public life. when you have the options we have in front of us. >> so the objection from your standpoint it's less about specific policy planks he might put into the republican flat platform this summer and more about how he carries himself? >> i'm not sure what the policy planks will be in the republican platform this summer.

i don't think we've seen any consistent policy representation at all. the donald trump campaign has been about the selling of donald trump. and in donald trump, we have someone who has boasted and revelled in the sort of base degradation and cultural decline that conservatives have been warning about for a generation. there is one thing that i agree with donald trump about. when he says that i am a nasty guy with no heart, that's true. i'm a nasty guy with no heart, which is why i need forgiveness of sins and redemption through the gospel of jesus christ. we're looking at a situation where there's a reality television character who is saying, let's not just accept what we see as cultural decay, let's glory in it. and i think that's a problem long beyond this election for the culture. >> what are you going to do this fall? choice between trump and

clinton, maybe a third-party candidate, what are you going to do? >> my concern right now is not about who's up and down in this presidential election. my concern right now is to make sure that we have evangelical christians in churches who stand by our commitment to jesus christ and to his word and make sure we don't bartter that away for some attempt at political power that ends up trading away our conscience in the bargain. >> but could you support hillary clinton over donald trump ultimately? >> no. i don't endorse candidates at all, but i have serious problems with hillary clinton. hillary clinton is a candidate who in many ways is even worse than president obama when it comes to issues that we care about, with abortion and religious liberty and other questions. the problem is, this is a year in which there is no -- there is no -- no one standing up with an alternative vision to that. we cannot have a pro-life movement in the context of sexual revolution and misogyny and all of the negative aspects

of this culture that gave us the culture of death we're living with and now we have two candidates who are standing up for those things. >> doctor russell moore, thanks for the time. appreciate it. >> thank you. as we said, donald trump is not ruling out the possibility of blocking house speaker paul ryan from the traditional role that the house speaker plays at the republican convention. that is chairing the convention. and ryan now says that he would step down from that position if trump asks him to. this ahead of what could be a dramatic face-to-face meeting between ryan and trump that is scheduled for later this week. i'm joined now by ari melber what do you got here? >> i think you know as a student of politics, are fights you want to win and there are fights you want to lose. people have pointed out, paul ryan may be happy to lose this fight, because it would remove him from a big role at the convention. under the typical rules, rule 41, leaves the power to choose the chair by the delegates.

there are reasons for that. using house rules, not robert's rules of order, so you need someone who knows them and the house peespeaker with one of th top ranking members of the gop. but trump can say he wants someone chairing the convention who supports him. so the way this will go down, they'll work this down in a bromance makeup on thursday. or if they remain at loggerheads, if paul ryan is not endorsing, he'll be thrown in the proverbial briar patch and maybe get what he wants, which is to not chair the thing. >> newt gingrich had the worst approval rating of anybody in politics and dole had to figure out what to do. they kept him as chairman, but i think he came out at noon every day for about 30 seconds.

>> and that was a year when the campaign was trying to link him to his unpopularity. the chair can be a ceremonial thing, where you gavel it in and get out of the way. we're already hearing rumblings over the cruz delegates, over the platform. the chair has that role. they can tamp down fights or let them play out. you want a loyalist in that position, so that's why this matters. paul ryan, we all know, he's no dummy. i think he understands how this fight works, that he would lose it if he fought it. he doesn't want to fight it. >> still some drama this summer in cleveland. >> oh, yeah. >> thank you for that. >> we've been through trump's war with his own party. now let's look at what is trump's fight with himself. with his openness about negotiating a tax increase for the wealthy. cutting taxes has been a cornerstone of economic policy since the reagan generation, including tax cuts for the richest people in this country. trump put out his tax plan in

september. that plan aligned with that conservative philosophy. his plan would slash rates across the board, including for top earners. but in recent days, trump has seemed to move away from that philosophy, including during his interview with chuck on "meet the press." >> are you willing to raise taxes on the top 1% or not? >> let me explain how the world works, okay? we have to negotiate. the thing i'm going to do is make sure the middle class gets good tax breaks. because they have been absolutely shunned. for the wealthy, i think it's going to go up. and you know what, it should go up. >> do you believe in raising taxes on the wealthy? >> i do. i do. including myself. i do. >> bottom line, do you want taxes on the wealthy to go up or down? >> they will go up a little bit, and they may go up, you know -- >> but they're going down in your plan? >> no, no, in my plan they're going down, but by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up. >> this morning, trump told cnn that he's not going to raise taxes on the wealthy. >> if i increase it on the

wealthy, that means they'll be paying less than they're paying now. i'm not talking about increasing from this point, i'm talking about increasing from my tax proposal. >> confused yet? trump's comments on taxes are just the latest in a string of statements that have some economists anxious about trump's handling of these kinds of issues. here to help us sort through it all, joined by a seasoned veteran of politics and economics. he ran the non-partisan congressional budget office and was chief economist for president george w. bush. doug, thanks for joining us. we played a sampling there of what we've been hearing from donald trump. he talked yesterday on "meet the press" about this idea of negotiating, saying my starting offer to democrats will be this tax cut plan, which cuts rates for everybody, but i expect that in negotiations, the democrats would insist on a tax, i might go along with that. on cnn, he's saying whatever the increase on the wealthy would

be, it would be less than the decrease they get under me. can you make sense of what you're hearing? >> not entirely. i think there are a couple problems with what's going on here. first, when candidates put out their tax plans, i don't think anyone looks at them and says, ah, this is what i will get if he's elected president or she is elected president. instead, they recognize that what a candidate puts out is their ideal, their north star for tax policy and they're realistic about the fact that as it goes through the congress, it's going to get changed and something different might come out. what he's saying, this isn't the end point. this is the opening of the negotiation. so no one has any idea what he really wants in the way of a tax code and that's troubling to me. so you should say in a campaign, this is what i'd like and this is why i'm running for president and explain to people why it's good for america. he's changed his story so many times, i don't know what he really wants and he's not explaining why it's good for america. >> one thing that his campaign has exposed here, there's a lot of things that we just all, in the media, in the political

world, we assumed for years, these are republican positions, you can't run against them and win the republican nomination. he's violated a lot of those on the way. this openness he's expressing to raising taxes on the wealthy, there's been an assumption for a generation now, no republican can touch that, the party's not with him. is that maybe an assumption that we're wrong on as well? >> it could be. i think what is more important than taxes up or down is high quality tax policy. that's why there's been an interest in tax reform. so the real question, how will you raise taxes on the wealthy? what is the tax code you're going to support? and he's not answered that question yet. so i think the jury's out on whether he's violated some fundamental tenets of good tax policy. i do think he's showing an interest in sort of shifting to a posture he thinks might be more successful in the general election. we've seen candidates do that in the past. and let's face it, this has not been a policy-rich debate. it's been a selling of donald trump, not his policies.

and i think he can do this. >> it's true, when you look at polls, one thing that struck me through the years, that basic concept, which the wealthy pay more in taxes? that polls well across party lines. if donald trump came to you, let's be hypothetical. -- >> very hypothetical at that point. >> he says i want to run on this concept of it's okay to raise taxes on the wealthy, how could you sell that to a republican convention and get it in the platfo platform. >> there are two ways. one to tax them on what they put into the economy through labor or entrepreneurship and the other is to tax people to sktion. if you have a wealthy person who puts a lot in the economy, but drives frugally, has a small house, they'd pay small taxes. you could sell that to republicans, it's something that

republicans have valued. i don't think there's a problem with that. but he hasn't come out with a plan that looks like that. if the phone rings and donald trump is asking your advice, please let us know. >> i'll do that, steve. >> thank you. coming up, north carolina's controversial bathroom law heads to the court, why the governor is suing the federal government and how they're responding. and later, we'll look at how hillary clinton's campaign plans to reach out to disaffected republicans. that's ahead.

hear this loud and clear. loudon county, virginia is one of the most critical counties to watch in the entire country this year. check it out. loudon is basically the county the gop needs to win if they're going to win virginia this fall. it's no accident that's exactly where hillary clinton was campaigning today. in a lot of ways loudon county

tells the story of virginia. back in 2004, george w. bush won it by 12 points. carried the state by 8 points. four years later, 2008, obama won loudon by 8 points, won the state by 6 points. in 2012, obama won it and won the state. two years after that, loudon county help to elect barbara comstock to congress. here's the thing. this super suburb is trending democratic in two big ways. the population has doubled since the year 2000. in more densely populated areas tend to vote democratic. also the demographics have chang changed dramatically. the hispanic population has doubled. and all of that adds up to why hillary clinton was campaigning there today. coming up, we'll talk about democrats' efforts to capitalize on republicans' divisions.

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breaking news that we're following right now. this is northern murray county in oklahoma. a powerful tornado moving just west of interstate 35, south of norman. let's listen in our affiliate there, kfor. >> just crossing old mill road. that's our only way to get to i-35, we'll have to make an alternate route. >> it's now 1 1/2 miles west of i-35, heading to red line center line for joy, 4:30, in ten minutes from right now, it's heading directly for joy. red line, center line, it's about to cross i-35 coming up in the next few minutes. we'll see what kind of damage it produces after the fact, but it's hit some structures down there. it's multi vortex, violent motion. we continue with some storms in the metro. i'm just going to pass along

where those are. we have some hail in south edmond right now, just to the second street and downtown edmond, there's some hail there. it's about nickel sized, almost quarter. there's a little bit of small hail, about nickel sized on the east side of moore and small hail in far southeast norman. but for the metro, that's it. this is not the metro area. this is about a 45-minute drive south of paul's valley. go jeremy or chance. [ inaudible ] >> all right. that's kfor we've been listening to. we'll keep an eye on the situation. this is a live scene of a tornado making its way through oklahoma. we'll be right back. why do so many businesses rely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business.

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carolina. accusing it of violating the civil rights act, saying the state's bathroom law constitutes a pattern and practice of discrimination. the law forces transgender people to use the bathroom which corresponds with the sex designated on their birth certificate, regardless of their identity. the justice department set a deadline for the governor to take steps in resolving the legal dispute. instead, mccrory filed a lawsuit against the federal government. he said the justice department is using blatant overreach. >> i do not agree with their interpretation of federal law. that is why this morning, i have asked a federal court to clarify what the law actually is. ultimately, i think it's time for the u.s. congress to bring clarity to our national, anti-discrimination provisions under title 7 and title 9.

>>b> the legislature and the governor placed north carolina in direct opposition to federal laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sex and gender identity. more to the point, they created state sponsored discrimination against transgender individuals. we are seeking a court order declaring hb 2's rest room restriction impermissibly discriminatory as well as a statewide bar on its enforcement. >> since its passage, many corporations have withdrawn their business. now federal funding for the university of north carolina's 17 college campuses is at stake. nbc's janet shamlian joins us live from raleigh, north carolina.

janet, there's a political backdrop to this in north carolina. the governor is running for re-election this year. going to be a very tough race for him. so this fight as escalated today in a big way. take us through what happened and why it's happening right now. >> well, let's talk about the political implications that you mentioned first. he's a republican running for re-election. he's facing a democrat who is the current attorney general, which is why the attorney general was not a party to this suit today. he said he does not support house bill 2. when loretta lynch announced that counter suit against north carolina and the governor, you heard her say that they were possibly withholding funds from the state department of transportation here and the education department. that's where the rubber hits the road, as they say. $1.4 billion due this year to the university of north carolina. $800 million in student loans to college students in this state. people here are very frustrated and angry about what the repercussions might be.

in talking to business owners across the state, they're just plain embarrassed. they say it's hard to talk to visitors about this, that it does not represent who they are. so it's not resolved, of course. that 5:00 deadline has come and gone and it's a battle that is going to play out in court. but you are correct. it's a political issue for the governor. he thinks that his conservative base perhaps will stick with him as he sticks with this bill and that it's worth it for whatever else he might go through. steve? >> janet, thank you for that report. let's get some perspective from a former justice department official, william yom an is a former assistant attorney general for civil rights. he's a law and government fellow at american university. thank you for joining us. so the dispute here, it sounds like, boils down to -- at least legally, boils down to are transgender people protected under federal law right now or not? the obama administration saying yes, and the state of north carolina saying no, is that right? >> right. that's the central issue. and the obama administration has

taken a very strong stand, both the department of justice, the department of education, and the equal employment opportunity commission as well, have all taken the position that discrimination on the basis of gender identity is prohibited sex discrimination. and that's at the core of this legal battle now. >> so in other words, this is like when there's a federal law that says you cannot discriminate based on sex, the question there is, does sex mean -- does that include transgender people? >> well, that's right. that's right. the administration has taken the position that it does. there's a little bit of a glitch here in that some of the money that the department of justice administers comes through the violence against women act. and the violence against women act, which was enacted well after the title 7 and title 9, specifically prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender identity. so that's a slightly different question, but the administration takes the position that all of

this is prohibited sex discrimination. >> so where does this -- it really is the definition of gender here that's in dispute. where does this ultimately get resolved? will it make its way to the supreme court? >> we'll see. it's made its way to the fourth circuit court of appeals. and north carolina is one of the states that's in the fourth circuit. and the fourth circuit, in a panel opinion about two weeks ago, sided with the department of education and said that, and this was a case out of virginia, involving the use of a bathroom by a transgender man, and sided with the department of education -- the court sided with the department of agenof a- department of education. that's the law north carolina has to live with now. it can go up, it can get to the supreme court, but i think we're a long way from that now. >> william yomans, thanks for

the time. >> my pleasure, steve. again, we're continuing to follow the strong storms out of oklahoma. these pictures from just minutes ago. we're told that the funnel is now shrinking. keeping an eye on that. still ahead on "mtp daily," julian castro on hillary clinton's opportunity to win over republican voters this november. but first, kate rogers has the cnbc market wrap. >> thanks, steve. stocks began the week mixed. the dow falls 34 points, s&p is up 1, and the nasdaq climbs 14. gap shares are sinking after hours, the retailer warned first quarter revenue and earnings would fall short of estimates. gas prices jumped by nine cents to $2.27 per gallon for regular. and krispy kreme shares surged more than 20% today. they're being taken private in a deal valued at $1.35 billion. that's it from cnbc, first in

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looking at aerial pictures there over oklahoma. again this hour, we're monitoring that situation with the tornado that's been on the ground there for about 20, 25 minutes. the national weather service has extended the tornado warning for murray and garvin counties until 5:00 p.m. local time there. multiple power poles and damage reported from our storm chaser. golf ball sized hail reported north in edmond. a situation we'll keep watching. turning back to politics though for the moment, hillary clinton was campaigning in a key virginia swing district today, hoping to capitalize on the deepening divisions that donald trump may be creating in the republican party. politico first reported on the effort to court jeb bush donors who are following the former

candidate's decision not to vote for trump. "the new york times" said the campaign itself is beginning to assemble a republicans for hillary group, hoping to take advantage of the connections clinton made in her senate days. >> hillary clinton is totally controlled by the people that put up her money. she's totally controlled by wall street, and her system is rigged. do you ever see sanders wins, sanders wins, sanders wins, sanders wins, then they sit down and they say, oh, well he can't win. >> joining me now, julian castro, here as a hillary clinton supporter. mr. secretary, thank you for taking a few minutes. maybe you can convince me, but i'm skeptical that the republicans for the -- excuse me, the republicans for hillary is going to have much luck, and

it has to do with the interview we had at the top of the show. we had russell moore on, vanially cal christian leader who said he cannot support donald trump, he considers it a surrender on the republican party to nominate him, but when i pressed him, he said that he absolutely not could support hillary clinton. how do i win somebody like that over? >> first of all, you can see clearly that donald trump is not uniting the republican party, whether it's speaker ryan's opposition to him, or any number of evangelicals, folks concerned about national security. he is, if anything, dividing the party, very clearly. so i think that does present an opening, especially for a candidate like hillary clinton, who has a strong track record of bringing people together on issues that are important to american families. a good example of that is working with folks across the aisle to create the children's

health insurance program. something that benefits folks across the board and they got buy-in from democrats and republicans. so while it's true that not every evangelical that's not going to support trump is going to support secretary clinton, it's also true that you have a good number of business republicans, folks who are concerned about national security, who usually vote republican, of suburban women out there who are gonna support hillary clinton in november. and to secretary clinton's credit, she's talking about the issues that matter to folks across the board, whether you're democrat or republican, whether you're liberal or conservative. and donald trump is spending all his time just insulting people and making it clear that he is a loose cannon. that's going to turn a lot of people off. some of them won't vote. some of them are going to vote for hillary clinton. >> you mentioned a business there, though. i think of them -- i call them the kasich republicans.

he did well in greenwich, connecticut, he won manhattan. there definitely is a segment of the republican party there that was rallying against donald trump in these sort of higher income areas, a lot of areas sort of around wall street. but if those are the types of republicans who end up being attracted to hillary clinton, compared to donald trump, is there a flip side of that, where the supporters of bernie sanders and his very anti-wall street message, anti-corporate power message, that you need to unite, are they then turned off? >> i don't think so. first of all, it's a big jump to go from saying that folks that are concerned about a strong american economy are necessarily the wall street type, the hedge fund managers. those are two different things. i used to be a mayor. and one of the great things that i saw being mayor was folks of different political backgrounds that wanted the community to succeed, they wanted good paying jobs for families, they wanted

good investments and infrastructure so the community could continue to grow. i believe that you have a number of republicans who are not the wall street types, who are not the hedge fund managers, but out there in middle america, that are concerned about making the right investments in education, making the right investments in job creation, making the right investments in infrastructure to spur american opportunity. and those folks right now are going to go to hillary clinton. >> i'm going to ask you about the veepstakes, but i'm not going to ask you the question you've already been asked 12,000 times. i think you know what that one is. i'll leave that one alone right now. but if we're talking about hillary clinton potentially appealing to republican voters, taking an opportunity to bring new voters in the democratic party, is there a republican out there who you think, maybe she should put this person on the ticket? >> come on, steve. i'm dumb but i'm not that dumb. >> hey, mccain wanted to put lieberman on back in 2008,

remember that? >> secretary clinton has consistently shown that she has good judgment. so i have no doubt that she's going to select someone, a good democrat, but somebody who can work with folks across the aisle, someone that's going to make the right investments in american opportunity for the future. at the end of the day, that's her choice. and i'm glad to support her campaign, and i'll be glad to support that ticket when it comes about. >> julian castro, supporter of hillary clinton, thanks for the time. >> thank you. let's check back in now on the breaking news we're following out of oklahoma this hour. looking at live chopper pictures from our oklahoma affiliate, kfor. you're hearing reports there of another potential tornado on the ground. this was the scene earlier this hour outside of joy, oklahoma. that's where a tornado was on the ground for over 20 minutes. that tornado has disappeared, but like we said, now we're hearing reports that a new one may be forming. a lot going on in oklahoma this hour. keeping a close eye on that. up next, before there was a

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the who. republican presidential nominee james blane, the former speaker of the house and secretary of state was openly hated by a large portion of the gop. the what. it's the mugwumps, and that's the name for the anti-blame republicans, essentially, the never trump movement of that era. mugwumps accused them of shady railroad dealings. one campaign slogan is reminiscent of the ted cruz moniker. the where, the presidential race came down to 36 electorally. votes, mugwumps cast their ballots for grover cleveland and he won by just over a thousand votes. here's why it matters. this week, we've seen some never trump republicans going as far as to say that they will back hillary clinton. the mugwumps should be -- show

that the move would not be unprecedented. maybe a silver lining for the modern day mugwumps. republicans took back the white house from grover cleveland four years after that. some history to grow on this week. we'll be right back. caring for someone with alzheimer's means

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to do one thing & another.ity only at&t has the network, people, and partners to help companies be... local & global. open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t. back now with more on the breaking tornado news. our affiliate kfor in oklahoma reports there's a tornado on the ground, headed toward chigly. they are reporting it's a half a mile wide wedge tornado. there are new tornado warnings now for cleveland and pota watta me counties. winds up 200 miles per hour.

you're looking at live chopper pictures -- this is our affiliate we're looking now. and we're going to check in with kfor, listen in on their coverage. >> it's a half a mile wide. >> half a mile wide tornado. that's what we call a wedge tornado, it's shaped like a wedge. we don't need to talk about wedge tornadoes in oklahoma, because we know about them. that's what that is, a wedge tornado. on the leading edge, there's debris coming out. here's the back of it here. maybe a half mile wide. it's low, violent, multi vortex, that's a wedge tornado. they can really cause problems for folks. you need to be in the safest spot you know. winds over 200 miles an hour, that can do terrible things. go guys, jeremy go. go, chance. >> hey, this tornado is a

quarter and a half mile wide, it's a violent tornado. there's rain wrapping all around it. it's kind of hard to see. [ inaudible ] >> okay, so wedged tornado here could be a half mile wide. we think winds are 200 miles plus. it sweeps stuff clean, trees, houses, sweeps stuff clean. these are the really bad ones. we got one there today on the ground. look at the huge hook. let's take max three in rap bid scan and look at the hook here coming around. here is sulfur and you can see that this is the debris ball and the tornado itself and it's really a big tornado here just to the northwest of sulfur by only three miles. >> that's the live coverage from our affiliate kfor in oklahoma,

again, keeping a close eye on that situation. tornado on the ground there near chi gley. oklahoma. we'll monitor it and be back after this. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one place where real and amazing live. seaworld. real. amazing

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director of the state democratic party. let's start, let's start on the state of the republican party, the state of trump's campaign as this pivot -- it is a pivot. i don't know. a lot to talk about there but julian, we did this at the top of the show. there are a lot of republican leaders and conservative group leaders that don't like donald trump and are saying they won't support him or may not support him. i'm also looking at the poll. we put this where 84% say they are with him against hillary clinton. is there a divide there? is there a big divide between the rank file of the party and where leaders are? >> only as much as the pope is catholic. i mean, this is huge. i think what you see right now is a lot of conservatives standing on principle standing against trump, not necessarily looking in terms of winning or losing. this is an ideal logical fight and people in the middle anti establishment and i'm the front runner, don't like my policy,

get behind me. that's leaving a lot of voters isolated and turning toward hillary clinton. >> what does trump have to do right now? ozzie, we heard about signals from the campaign that you see a different donald trump and the tone would change and he had an interview with lester holt last week where he said i want a high-minded campaign this fall and spent the weekend talking about bill clinton, monica lewinsky, affairs and try to connect to hillary clinton. >> for him that is high-minded and part of the trump brand is to fight the establishment. if he gets support from paul ryan, what happens to his brand? if people fall in line too quickly, what happens to donald trump the outsider. part of this is good politics for him. the republicans who are now denouncing him are happy to let him say things about muslims, mexicans and women -- >> i don't think a lot of them were. if you saw within the republican party within the conservative movement, there was enormous debate within religious freedom

circles. >> there were opportunities for the candidates to attack. >> ted cruz comes to mind most notably there, yeah. >> they were all playing the game that this guy can say these things, he'll fade away and his supporters who like what he's saying will gravitate towards me and i'll placate them with other politics and it got out of hand. >> one theory why trump is doing what he's doing now, specifically bringing up stuff from the 90s and bill clinton is that he's trying to provoke bill clinton. bill clinton and clearly was biting his lip. >> maybe, i don't think it's a winning strategy. i don't know if there is process there where you have all of these republicans that said they would support the nominee eventually not do that because i think one ultimately what will

happen, folks in the position i have we'll be looking at state elections. we'll be looking to tie republican state senators, members of folks running for congress to a donald trump candidate. yeah, go ahead and try to attack bill clinton and bring bill clinton into the state to rally up troops and bring out the voters. so i don't think it's going to have the impact he thinks and frankly, let him go ahead and do that because it helps us. >> i went back and looked last week at where this race started on the republican side a year ago when donald trump got in. a lot of people forget. he was at 1%. he had ten spots on the debate stage and put a character. he wasn't going to be one of the ten and there was a lot of hostility among republican voters to donald trump. he won them over. got the nomination. we're seeing a lot of hostility now among voters outside the republican party. do you think he could win them over, too, the way he did republicans? >> i think he's got a lot of angry people frustrated with the

status quo and see them as a symbol of anger. that said across the bored, republican, democrat, women don't like him and minorities don't like him. he's got a small wedge of the electret. i think what we'll see is him hit a ceiling. we're probably seeing that. it's people identifying with things he said, not liking it. it's also people just standing on their principles they had. >> do you believe donald trump on his current message couldn't expand it and he would have to change either the message itself or style to expand the support? >> if he hammers away at the idea the system is dysfunctional and bernie sanders supporters unhappy with hillary clinton trying to get republican donors, they gravitate towards that. people frustrated at the economy may gravitate towards that. the sort of regan democrats hillary clinton had trouble getting and joe biden could have gotten, people that are just sort of disengaged with politics and have been for years could gravitate towards a guy despite

the specifics of what he's saying. >> five seconds, final thought. >> i would add that hillary clinton brought in a lot of groups. she's done better than 2008 with a lot of constituencies and there is a myth to blue color workers. he appeals to a higher median income and i think democrats have been able to to pick up a lot of support. >> basil, julian, ozzie, thank you. we'll see you back tomorrow with more "mtp daily" "with all due respect starts right now. >> with all due respect reince priebus, remember, he's got options. >> o'neil of the yankees. stand up, paul. paul. in fact, paul, you come, you originally come from ohio, right? oh, wow. paul o'neil of the yankees.