say the least. trump will speak with other congressional leaders throughout the day up. let's bring there katy tur with the trump campaign from the beginning. mckay hopkins who writes for buzzfeed. he's auls author of the wilderness. and senior correspondent liz plank. all right, mckay, my question is, is this a real mting or not? do you know what i mean by that? >> yeah, yeah. >> like, is this essentially show or actually are these two people going to be -- i've just been at a few meetings this past week, they were real meetings. >> was paul ryan at any of them? >> he was not. >> was reince priebus mediating? >> i have a hard time believing there will be a serious exchange of ideas. they're not going to come out of this and say, we've arrived at a

deal. my guess is that both parties have already figured out a vague idea of what they'll say after the meeting. and this meeting has to happen, from the perspective of paul ryan and donald trump, they have to at least go through the motions of looking like they're attempting party unity. but i seriously doubt anything is going to change in the trajectory -- after this meeting. after the meeting, it's possible they'll come together and say, okay, now i'm ready to endorse or it will happen soon after, but i doubt it's going to be because of anything said in that room. >> what's the ask from trump? it's clear, it's basically endorsement. i don't get what the ask is in the other direction. >> the ask is, get behind me. not even so much of an ask. >> that's my point. >> it's a demand. the campaign believes he has a mandate, he's got the voters behind him. that he is the voice of the republican party and paul ryan isn't. donald trump isn't coming in hat in hand to try to please the

republican party, it's just not the case. >> do you think ryan can keep this up? like, can we keep up the i'm not endorsing the party's nominee? >> i'm just not that into you. which is what my friend calls this. the i'm just not into you tour, where trump and ryan are meeting and ryan isn't going steady with trump for a while. he's looking for someone who can be more committed, be more stable. >> and there are more than paul ryan who feel that way. he's got a whole wing of republicans who are adopting the same language. did you can it last? >> i think it can. and i think we're underestimating the level -- donald trump has met with megyn kelly whom he called bimbo and now they're going to be -- go ahead, interrupt me. >> that's a good point. there are no enemies for trump. >> and he's a charming person one-on-one, a lot of people

underestimate that too. even with paul ryan. >> but the calculation being made by paul ryan or charlie demp or jeff flake or john mccain, or by in-cycle republicans from ron johnson to mark kirk to kelly ayotte, none of them are making calculations based on the personal force -- >> no, they're trying to minimize the number of people do they alienate. the question, do they alienate the base, or the in the middle who are turned off by donald trump and potentially less turned off by hillary clinton. >> but the problem is, i don't think you can maintain this relationship status that is untenable. you either have to break up or you have to commit to each other? >> dtr, define the relationship. >> i thought you were going to say something else, which is not what happens on the right. >> has to define the relationship with the r. crucial. the point being, you have to make some -- i guess my point

is, you cannot maintain, particularly through six months, and particularly just for the next two months, and particularly not for the week of the convention, you cannot maintain the posture of official republican dom towards the party's nominee that you're waiting to see -- >> and you can't do the thing which some people have tried in recent weeks, i'll vote for him, but i'm not going to endorse him. that's a distinction without a difference. if you're saying out loud in public, i'm going to vote for donald trump, that is an endorsement. there's an array of things that these people might not actually do on behalf of the campaign, but you either line up behind trump or you don't. >> let me go to nbc's hallie jackson who is at today's republican leadership conference on capitol hill. any insight into this dynamic from what you saw there today? >> listen, here's the thing. you're talking about defining the relationship, what speaker ryan with donald trump should do, and that gets to the core of what the issue is.

ryan's team said they want to see donald trump commit to an overall idea of conservativism, that he believes in the principles of limited government, no executive overreach. when you look at his policies there's not a sense they'll be going through and checking off the list, on nato, on trade, on immigration, that they'll come to some big agreement in the next 24 hours over these things, but paul ryan wants to hear from donald trump that he is committed to unity, something trump has said publicly and that he believes in the core principles broadly. after that, ryan believes the party can unify. it's something that he talked about today. it's something we do expect to hear a lot about tomorrow. i can also tell you that speaker ryan met with a group of what we're calling the trump caucus. congressional members who support donald trump on capitol hill today as this overture, smoothing the path for the meeting tomorrow, representative mike kelly was weafl wpennsylva in that meeting. we talked about it and he had an

optimistic take on what a ryan-trump relationship could look like. listen. >> you're going to have a guy in paul ryan who is deeper than the pacific ocean when it comes to policy and loves to work with people, that's who he is. and you have a guy from the private sector, who has been able to work with people to get to a common end, a mutual goal. so you put something like donald trump together with paul ryan, i mean, you've got a dynamic duo that make badman and robin look like rookies. >> great to talk about batman and robin. but as i said to the congressman, that's only if ryan and trump are able to come together, if ryan is able to fully and whole heartedly endorse donald trump. it's our understanding he's facing some pressure now from some corners on capitol hill to do that. the question is, how will tomorrow kick off that relationship, given that ryan has talked repeatedly about the fact that he doesn't know trumptrump all that well. >> thank you very much for that. that makes me think, to the

extent that that is what is going on, that it's essentially theater and they'll get some concessions. >> what are the concessions? >> they'll be symbolic. we went through this with the reince priebus pledge. >> you can get all the concessions you want with donald trump, but it doesn't mean any of them are going to hold, which is why i don't necessarily believe they need to unify behind him, because donald trump is creating a new base for himself that doesn't necessarily belong to the republican party and he's going to continue doing that, regardless of whether or not they back him whole heartedly. if you take him out of washington, out of new york, even, in the media circles, people aren't paying attention to this. they don't care. >> they don't care about the policies at all. >> they don't care whatsoever. >> voters don't care -- no, no. just to be clear, voters don't care about how paul ryan and

these people come together. what matters is the degree to which the party will put -- a few things -- the degree to which the party fund raises to get the money they need to spend half a billion dollars on the general and this gets to the point, whether donald trump is creating his new base or not, they own him. so the point is, you have called to ban all muslims from entering the country, you have said it's impossible for a woman to be a ten if she's flat chested. that's a quote. you own all that now. and the reason i'm saying all that, every quote that he said on howard stern about how you should treat women, every policy position -- >> he said it doesn't count because he wasn't a politician back then. >> he's still not a politician. >> if you're running against ron johnson, you're going to ask him about whether he thinks a woman can be a 10 if she's flat chested. >> they don't care. >> it isn't a republican party problem, because where do they go forward after this.

>> and this is why ryan is in this awkward position. he owns all of that whether he likes to or not. >> and it is about policy and paul ryan cares about policy, but what they want to know is consistency. he's changed his position on almost everything anyway. so the people who are saying i'll vote for him, but i'm not endorsing him, they're leaving the door open in case he goes on a rampage. >> a good scenario could be, he promised me all these things, so i'm going to back him on the condition. >> say that publicly. >> and then maybe in october when trump says something damaging or insane, he can say he violated the agreement. >> that's exactly right. >> the line has been redrawn and redrawn. >> that's the problem. banning muslims and building a wall and making mexico pay for it, and mexico sending its rapists. >> there were so many times where you're like, this is it,

this is the last straw. >> and you're saying paul ryan is not in a great situation right now? >> no, i'm just saying, i think that's a smart analysis of what he could do. basically say, okay, it's like when you send someone an e-mail to put something, to like commit to writing, so it gets in their inbox. they don't even respond to it. you're like, just recapping what we discussed, you did say in that meeting -- >> we're getting a lost of offi -- lot of office politics today. >> but the problem, he's not bound by that. that's the thing. >> paul ryan, couldn't he use this meeting as the moment where he says, we had a frank conversation and he's assured me that blah, blah, blah, blah. >> chris christie is being asked about it now. take a listen. >> the senate has passed a bill. now, i don't understand how the speaker wants to be a player, pass a bill. he talked about the bill for

seven or eight weeks. >> now he's not talking about the paul ryan, in case you couldn't tell. he was talking about a bill working its way through the new jersey legislature. coming up, trump versus the world. now the vice president himself seems to be getting involved. stick around. >> by insulting our partners throughout the hemisphere, by tarring all immigrants with a xenophobic brush, some leaders are actively undermining our security and our prosperity. it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... try boost® 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. and it's available in two new flavors, vanilla caramel and double chocolate fudge. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®.

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london's first ever muslim

mayor sadiq khan has been in office five days and he's already blasted donald trump to three separate occasions. the latest came after trump said he'd make khan an exception to his muslim travel ban. >> i think donald trump has ignorant views about islam. it's not just about me. i don't want to be the exception to be allowed to go to america. donald trump has said, should he be elected president of the united states of america, he would ban muslims from attending america. that means if you want to go there on holiday, to disneyland, you're a business person who wants to do business there, if you want to be a student in america, because you're awe muslim, you could be stopped from going there. >> trump hit back on those comments this afternoon. >> i assume he denies that there's islamic terrorism. if you look at this, there's islamic radical terrorism all over the world. i assume he's denying that, like

our president is, that it's taking place. we have a serious problem. it's a temporary ban. it's just a suggestion until we find out what's going on. >> just a fact check, it has been called for by donald trump. >> i'm joined live now from london. tom, i'm curious what the perspective on this back and forth is in london itself. because obviously khan's victory was a huge deal there, an incredibly hard fought election and a lot of the islamophobia and fright around the fact that he was muslim was part of the politics at play in his own race. >> very much so. sadiq today, i saw him today and he actually called the conservative campaign the sort of donald trump campaign in the uk. and he said to hillary, that actually she should learn from how he defeated this, in his view, by the hope over fear. so and to be honest, it's been

an absolute dream for sadiq. he's been able to look like the bigger guy, get headlines around the world, just by saying something relatively simple, you know, and modest. he talks about his own teenage daughters wanting to go to disneyland. that strikes a chord, i think, with many people. >> yeah, i think it does a good job of highlighting just how unpracticable this given proposal would be, when you're talking about tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and millions of travelers who come to the u.s. to do everything from study at engineering schools, to go to the grand canyon, to take in a broadway show in times square. >> absolutely. i mean, sadiq was saying that there are thousands of muslim businessmen, who want to -- who are doing deals in the states. you know, he's a close ally of bill de blasio, he wants to go to new york to see him. he said today that he was going to have to go to new york before january, because he wanted to

get in before he was banned from the u.s., despite his exception. it's an extraordinary sort of turn of events. sadiq's a clever politician. the irony, actually, from what i've been seeing, he's very much an american-style politician. he's a real go-getter. he gets out there, he goes to all the different communities, all the different religions in london, which reminds me very much of u.s. politics, more than uk politics. >> tom, thank you very much. appreciate that. and despite criticisms coming from all over the globe, trump isn't backing down from his muslim travel ban, saying today, he's thinking of setting up a commission to study it, led by none other than former new york city mayor rudy guiliani. >> it's a real problem, not only here, but throughout the world. it's a real problem. so we'll figure it out and we'll get it going, but we have to be extremely careful. in fact, i'm thinking about setting up a commission, perhaps headed by rudy guiliani to take

a very serious look at this problem. but it's a worldwide problem and we have to be smart. >> talk a little bit about the context of -- the broader context of how this campaign, i know you talk to people around the globe all the time, how this campaign is playing over there. people watch american politics in other parts of the world very closely. >> not only do they watch it, but they care about it a lot. they are on the receiving end of american foreign policy in some parts of the world, like the middle east. so when you have a front-runner saying things about a part of the world that the united states is so heavily vested in, that has american soldiers fighting alongside muslim soldiers this that part of the world, the muslim leaders of that part of the world who i speak to frequently, they're very much alarmed by the fact that you have somebody like donald trump as the presumptive nominee. and then proposing to ban muslims from coming into the country.

i've had a chance to speak to a lot of affluent investors and people who do business in the united states and their position has been, not only are they concerned, but they also have taken the position, if he doesn't want us in the country, then certainly our businesses and our investments and our money will not be allowed in as well. >> i think what ends up happening is in some ways benefitting trump, ah, he's just ta talking, like he's not serious. i wonder whether there's that same sense, or if it sounds like he's going to do that? >> early on, it was very much that. he's not going to make it to the final round, he's 1 of 16. but people who have written him off, and the fact that he's emerged as the presumptive nominee, many of them saying to me, that he may win, and that has scared them beyond what you can imagine. >> gu overseas, be it london,

portugal, france, i mean, everybody is talking about this. i literally can sit at a cafe in any part of the world and somebody will bring up donald trump's name. >> if they hear your american accent. >> seriously. >> remember, i just want to remind people, when it was after the paris attacks, there was a profound sense of grief, trauma, rage, and fear. the attacks in paris. i was in paris that whole week, brutally upsetting and terrifying. and he came forward, he proposed this plan. temporary ban on muslims. it lit the political world on fire. people said that's such a violation of some of the most foundational beliefs of this country. this is an attack on the core of americanness. here's giuliani on it. >> aside from the fact it would be an absolute violation of the first amendment of the constitution.

i mean, you cannot use religion as a basis for discriminating. and honestly, there's no factual basis on which to assume that the vast majority of muslims are terrorists, just the opposite. >> we'd like to say in the united states that we lead by example, that we're not just the world's cop, right? we also lead by example, by what we do and what we say. and this is a very interesting way to lead, right? especially given the fact that, like, for the last several years, there's been this narrative amongst the republicans that obama has humiliated us in the world, that the united states is embarrassed, is humiliated, it can't be the true leader because people don't think well of us. how is this the right way to address that concern if you believe that that is the case right now? >> donald trump wants the world to fear him, not like. >> but that's a vanity thing.

it's not effective in terms of leadership. >> i'm not saying it's effective -- >> that's his philosophy on leadership. >> and when he was asked what about real estate investors from dubai who want to get in? he said, we can make exceptions for my rich muslim friends from the gulf. i'm paraphrasing. you think donald trump hasn't done business with muslims who have come to the united states, who have flown over? you think he hasn't sat in meetings and said, i'll give you a few points on this new project. i mean, from an oral surgeon in karachi to a shop keeper in jakarta, to a real estate develop ner dubai, we're talking about a enormous part of the world with a stake in this. >> or the mayor of london. >> the other thing, when you talk to a certain type of voter, especially the affluent, suburbite swing voter, maybe center-right voter, very resistant to supporting donald trump, i've talked to a lot of those people who say, this is

the single -- >> they agree with him on. >> yes. >> these are 18 states that we have exit polling on from republican primaries. in all 18 states, support for banning muslims is over 60%. >> republicans only? >> amongst republicans. >> there was a national poll that showed that the majority of americans, it's a small majority supported this idea. >> yeah, 40% swing between republicans and democrats. >> no one seems swayed by the fact that this would be a really hard test. >> well, people love sadiq khan. still to come, bernie sande sanders says he has a steep hill to climb against hillary clinton, that and more from his interview with andrea mitchell. we'll play that for you right after this. >> we have been fighting an uphill battle from day one. but if we do very, very well, we still have the possibility of coming in with the majority of pledge delegates.

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>> over 400 super delegates came on board secretary clinton's campaign before anybody else was in the race. before anybody else was running. that's pretty crazy. and that talks about the weakness of this whole super delegate system. number two, the point that we're going to make loud and clear is that in virtually every national poll that's been out there in the last month or six weeks, and in almost every state poll, bernie sanders runs stronger against donald trump than does hillary clinton. >> that was vermont senator bernie sanders speaking to andrea mitchell about super delegates. even with sanders win in west virginia last night, still trailing clinton by 280 pledge delegates and 481 super delegates who have already pledged their support for hillary clinton. meanwhile, both democratic candidates are campaigning today. hillary clinton was in new jersey, which votes on june 7.

sanders is in montana today. kristin, i understand something of a different approach in the blackwood, new jersey event today? >> that's right, chris. she aggressively went after donald trump for his taxes. she accused him of having a tax plan written by a billionaire for billionaires. and then she slams him for saying he's not going to release his tax returns. he's said that they're being audited, so that's why they're making that decision. but in talking to clinton campaignñr officials, they're going to use this tax issue to try to discredit donald trump. she went back to a familiar line of attack, which is that donald trump is a loose cannon. take a listen to what she had to say this afternoon. >> i think advocating torture, that's a loose cannon. saying we should pull out of nato, that's a loose cannon.

saying we're going to bar every muslim from coming into our count country. you go down the list, and you got a really reckless, even dangerous agenda that he is promoting. >> reporter: and of course clinton is still fighting in her primary battle, chris. and she lost west virginia. the campaign said they were bracing for that loss. now they're focused on new jersey, on kentucky, where she's up with ads, outspending senator sanders. so expect her to put a lot of focus there, maybe even add some events in the coming days, and she'll focus heavily on california. chris? >> thank you for that. let's bring back our panel. liz plank is back. look, i think you didn't like loose cannon. >> no, i think -- somebody, i think it was alex pereen wrote a

good piece about how loose cannon kind of plays into trump's message. like he's a renegade, he's dangerous, he's different. unpredictable is literally a word he uses to sell his foreign policy. i don't understand why the democrats think that basically repeating trump's campaign message is the best line of attack. i understand the logic to it, i think that "loose cannon" maybe find a different term. >> i think we're vastly underestimating how divided the democratic party is right now. the republicans chose a nominee before the democrats. >> and bernie keeps winning votes. >> and he's popular. and we have two of the most unfavorable, least popular candidates in history. and bernie sanders' character is not at play in the way that trump's and clinton's is too. >> i also think there's

something to this. it's interesting to watch them start to figure out how they're going to do this. everyone who came up against him was sometitymied in the republi primary. >> they were steamrolled. >> to be honest, i think gender was a huge part of it. i think that makes a difference in the way this goes down. he can pull this alpha male, macho bullying in a way that is going to play very, very differently -- you're nodding your head. >> i totally agree. that's true. a lot of his rhetoric is about stamina, about dominance, about getting women. he uses a lot of words -- >> schlong. >> yeah, no problems in that area. >> exactly, which plays very differently when you're talking about a woman. >> i remember during the debates, one of the most boom moments against him was fiorina, very early in that debate, when

she was asked, basically he said, why would you want to look at that face? she was asked what he meant, and he said every woman in this country knows what he meant. >> but it didn't stick. >> it didn't stick because he was not one-on-one with -- >> donald trump, voters know him. they have known him for decades. they've heard him on howard stern. this stuff has all been out there. the thing is, if you like donald trump or if you're warmed to donald trump, this stuff is not going to bother you so much. if you don't like him, you'll continue with that. but whether or not this is a well thought through strategy or maybe it's justification for his attacks, they'll try to crack her character, say that she's not somebody who is trustworthy, that she's not somebody who is an upstanding or likeable person. and by painting her as this enabler with bill clinton, which is what they think is effective

at the moment, they believe that they're going to be able to cut into that idea that she's got a bad character. when i talk to people behind the scenes, they would like him to start going after her on more policy positions. and they keep saying that is going to happen. but so far the easiest attack that he's been able to launch at her is on her personal history. and that is the one that gets giant cheers in at least these republican rallies. >> that is the thing. i think that he has been working on his material, what gets cheers at rallies. >> yes. >> i think donald trump decides what works and what is good and right or wrong based on how loudly his cheers are. and whether his poll numbers go up. and that's what we heard him say today, justifying the mccain comments and why he wouldn't back off from them. >> which if you google dem dog, it's right there. coming up, what voters revealed about trump's and clinton's tactics, how they're playing across america.

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what is this thing about hillary clinton being married to somebody who is an abuser of women? how do you make that case? >> stay tuned. >> you got a case? >> stay tuned. >> have you heard his case? >> we have things that will be talked about in this campaign, where we will not be letting her get away with playing the female card. >> how are these lines of attacks working with voters? earlier this week, we sent casey out to talk to a group of republican women in swing state virginia. here's what they had to say about the woman card. >> that hillary is playing the woman's card, does that argument resonate with you? >> i mean, i certainly think it's an argument that should be made, and again, i would love to see a woman president. i would hope that it wouldn't have to be hillary clinton. in this case, i think it might have to. but i absolutely don't think she should be playing the woman card. >> i do think there are unique aspects from a woman candidate would bring to not only the

process, but the presidency. whether or not he's playing the woman card, it's a part of the process. i remember watching her in 2008, and her persona is completely different. she's far less aggressive, far more -- i like to use the word, she's more like a matriarch. i think our first woman president will be a matriarch. >> our tony dokoupil went in search of the man card if that's a thing. did you find a man card? what is it? >> reporter: the man card is a thing, it does exist. i didn't expect to find it. i wanted to sit down with male voters to discuss donald trump's attack on hillary clinton when he brings up the woman card and the scandals. and one of the guys i sat down with, he brought up the man card and everyone at the table argued over what exactly that meant. take a listen. >> donald trump is playing the man card. he is also coming off -- he is

appealing to white males and he has no principle, because that's howl he's got. he's got hate, he's got contentiousness. he has nothing to offer other than the fact that he was a reality show tv star. >> you brought up an interesting concept, the man card. can you tell me a bit more. what is the man card? >> the man card is the card that trump is playing. he's appealing to men. he is appealing -- and he has every reason to -- let me finish. [ all speak at once ] >> but i'm one of those men. i'm a middle class man, white males. >> i'm not talking about you. >> what's that he's talking about, when you talk about the man card. you're talking about someone who works 12 to 14 hours every day and we make a bunch of money and our money is going to something else. >> where is your money going? >> it goes to the government and people that don't work. we're sick of it.

>> it is. >> i've paid taxes, i get benefits. >> we're sick of it. that's why we're voting for trump. >> trump's playing the man card and you want to be dealt in is what you're saying? >> absolutely. there's a bunch of women that want to be too. >> i ain't sure what that means, playing the man card. he's playing the people card to give the people what they want. it's not a man, it's not a woman, it's people all around that deserve the same deal. >> but you think donald trump is right when he says hilleary is playing the woman card? >> well, when she says on national tv vote for a woman because you're a woman, that's a woman card. >> reporter: i should correct that last comment that jeff made. she did not actually say that on national tv. that's his paraphrase of her messaging. but one key take-away there, the guy defining what the man card is, he seems to be responding to

donald trump's tough-guy, macho attitude, calling his opponents little this, little that, choke artists, run home to mommy. that's old school masculinity and for a certain kind of voter like that one, it doesn't play. >> the point is a really good one, that he is very consciously embracing a certain kind of male identity politics. the other day he said this thing about we, meaning us men, we can barely say anything about women anymore. that was the man card. that was like us, dude, bros. >> and said they're terrified to speak to women. >> i want to bring in kasie hunt to join the conversation. what else did the women you spoke to in virginia tell you? >> one note on this conversation you were just having, having covered jeb bush, i think there was definitely a man card played in the -- throughout this republican race. but on the subject of the woman card, i think you heard those women voters -- republican women talking a little bit about this. and this was the one subject area where they were all in agreement.

two of the women at the table were trump supporters, two were registered republicans who have come around to the idea that they feel forced to vote for hillary clinton, because they can't stomach donald trump. one of them still undecided. they all said that they were put off by the idea of hillary clinton saying "vote for me because i am a woman." so in some ways, i saw some cracks there for donald trump's complain to potentially exploit. i think it's a line of messaging that could potentially work for them. >> tony and kasie, thank you both. those were both really fascinating. back to our panel. i don't feel and maybe i'm missing this. i feel, my perception of the clinton campaign is that they work very hard to sub limmate that as the message. they've been clear to not lead with, vote for me because i'm a woman. that's been pretty far down in the list of reasons. >> it's not an anatomical appeal. >> and it doesn't help women to be women in politics. there's no advantage. >> that's a great point.

>> that's one of the reasons why trump keeps hitting her on playing the woman card. she's not playing the woman card necessarily. he wants to paint her as somebody trying to use it to her advantage. >> i asked her, how is she playing the woman card, how is this beneficial? and his answer didn't make sense. so glad that a man has brought up the man card, because the man card, continuing this analogy, it's something that he benefitted from. if a woman acted the way trump is acting, waving her fingers, shouting like bernie sanders, she wouldn't be able to get away with the things he's able to. and he's using gendered attacks against women, not just hillary clinton, against megyn kelly, against any woman that gets in his way. >> and the literature on this, there's a lot and what it says across the board is that women pay a price for being women in the political sphere. there's a reason in terms of

perceptions of strength, in terms of electability, in terms of the degree which physical appearance plays, the idea that there's a premium to be found by being a woman is belied by the fact that we have never elected a woman president. >> it's not just in the political sphere, it's women in every sphere there is. take a look at any one of our twitter mentions right now. and half of them are about the way you look, and it's not necessarily about the content. >> professional women and political women face this double bind, where they're judged on meeting the standards of their gender and meeting the standards of their profession and sometimes those are at odds. if you're a woman, you're expected to be caring and emotional and maybe maternal. if you're a politician, you're supposed to be tough, you're supposed to be strong. no matter where you are in the spectrum of behavior, you're

going to be failing for someone on one of those dimensions. you're going to be too tough, too much of a pushy bitch, or whatever. or you're going to be too weak and too soft. >> one of the things that i think they have made -- the clinton campaign, the way they have come to think about how they deal with this is to take everything about her gender and turn it into an issue about her substantive positions on women. so she will say things like, it's advocating for equal pay, paid leave, and reproductive health, deal me in. so the way they deal with that argument is to say, when you talk about who i am personally, that i'm a woman and would be a woman president, their agenda is to say, here's my commitment to the voters. i said this last night, my prediction, we'll see the biggest gender spread of any election in our lifetime and this right now, which is donald

trump and hillary clinton, that might be the low point of what that spread is. >> what's remarkable, the campaign refuses to acknowledge it. they don't believe it's a problem. i think the gender gap is a myth. -- the trump campaign, it's really hillary with men, not necessarily trump with women. and they're going to try to find every single person out there, democrat. >> independent, republican, who does not like hillary clinton and they're going to try to talk directly to that person to try to get them over to their side. he's facing a very tough electoral map when it comes to that. >> even through all the primaries he struggled even to win over republican women. the line i thought was best from jennifer ruben the conservative writer at "washington post" said ronald reagan reminded you of your father, george w. bush reminds you of your brother and donald trump reminds you of your ex-husband. and i think there's something to that. this bullying, talking badly about women, that a lot of women said it reminds them of the men

they least like. >> by october this is going to make billie jean king look like a side show. mitt romney still calling on donald trump to release his taxes, an issue used to criticize romney in 2012, but another prominent republican is coming to trump's defense. getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more. add one a day women's gummies. complete with key nutrients we may need... ...plus it supports bone health with calcium and vitamin d. one a day vitacraves gummies. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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>> i find it ironic that hillary clinton is talking about transparency to anyone given that she had her own e-mail server, that she used constantly and had her colleagues in the

state department use in order to avoid foia requests. and any transparency to the public. so i hardly believe that hillary clinton is in any place to be giving a critique on transparency. trump has made it clear, when his audits are complete, he'll release returns. >> that's new jersey governor chris christie responding to call for donald trump to release his taxes. calls that now include mitt romney, who had his own issues over tax returns in 2012. let's bring our panel back in, joined now also by msnbc's cal perry. so, romney had a moment where he sort of ordained himself the never trump voice. he trolled for a few days, it petered out. this seems to be a general election resurfacing of that. >> i think so. and i don't know if it's going to affect him, or is trump the teflon candidate.

today he's engaged on twitter by elizabeth warren and it's like it's fight club and you're not getting out of fight club without taking a hit. and she's taking some major hits. trump just tweeted, isn't it funny when failed center like goofy elizabeth warren can spend an entire day tweeting about trump and gets nothing done in the senate? >> what's the expression, if you wrestle with a pig, the pig wins and you just get dirty. >> that's right. but warren seems to be relishing this, because he can't do anything to her. she's a massachusetts senator who will be re-elected for as long as she wants that seat and also is in a position where she can draw fire away from hillary clinton, which i think is what is happening here. >> i think trump understands this is like the gold fish who swims around and recognizes a castle and then forgets about it, oh, look, a castle, oh,

look, a castle. >> the tax issue is interesting because it's become a standard for people running for president, they release taxes. mitt romney, because he had complicated taxes and because he had a lot of fairly elaborate tax structures that insulated him from paying taxes -- >> and a low tax liability rate, lower than almost everyone watching the show right now. that's almost certainly a statement of fact. he didn't want to release it, but he eventually had to. and one question, this is sort of a media question, will we see the same sort of concerted effort to get trump to release that we saw on romney? >> i hope so. i don't know if that will be the case. at some point, it's like, you want us to release paperwork, we've got bigger fish to fry, the immigrants to keep out, things like that. i'm a tax nerd, i love taxes, i think you can find out a lot of information about someone by looking at their tax return. i hope people hold his feet to the fire, but i don't know.

>> bernie sanders have released one year of tax returns. there are calls for them to release more. i think they're working on that. hillary clinton has released seven years, is that right? >> i think more than that. >> so that's the scoreboard. do you think we'll see mitt romney play this role? >> i think so. he seems like he wants to stay in the game, but trump turns every negative in a positive. when was being audited a positive thing? he hides behind the audit like that's a badge of honor. but he's flipped the switch. >> he owns the negatives and turns them into positives. >> he's used the bankruptcy laws to his advantage. that should be stigmatizing. >> does romney gain anything doing this? >> i don't know the man at all,by my sense, the way he participated, he didn't have anything to gain or lose from it, just despises the man and

thinks he would be a terrible president and is doing it solely out of that. >> is that ever going to pay off? saying this is not going to work -- >> but i would say romney's in a position similar to elizabeth warren, he's got nothing to lose. he's not going to be president of the united states, and he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. >> i think he agrees with that assessment. >> that might be true. there's a lot of talk on the contested convention that maybe he will come into play. cal perry, thank you. stay with us. we'll be right back in just a moment. or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away

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doing. thanks to my panel. i'm chris hayes and i'll be back tonight, not at this diesk, not with the wheel of death, but downstairs for "all in with chris hayes," don't miss that. first, though, "mtp daily" starts now. ♪ if it's wednesday, donald trump set to hit capitol hill just over 15 hours from now. a slew of face-to-face meetings, starting with house speaker paul ryan. getting up close and personal win over the skeptics? this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. >> good evening, i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd. welcome to "mtp daily." we've got the countdown clock up and ticking down now and it's not a primary this time around. instead it's the most anticipated