until tomorrow, we're with you until right about now. >> coming up, hardball with chris matthews. donald trump presents. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. that's the big story. donald trump, the about to be republican nominee for president of the united states, is bringing his thrill show to the big tent stage of this summer's fight for the white house. you'll see entertainment, live entertainme entertainment. you'll see suspense. he promises to pick his vice president at the convention. you'll see reality tv bigger and

scarier than survival. you heard it right here last night. >> this is the ultimate reality show. it's the presidency of the united states. >> the presumptive republican nominee makes clear he has no plans to change anything he's been doing. he told the new york times, i have a mandate from the payroll. for trump this is the theater of war. you're going to change. people like the way i'm doing. he also made this comparison. in a broadway theater, the absolute best sale is called word of mouth. people love a broadway show. it's better than if you write a good review. word of mouth is number up with thing. the word of mouth at my rallies is like you've got to go see it. one person goes and they talk about it to 20 people. what is the trump shows and what is he selling right now.

in the past 24 hours he's reaffirmed his commitment to ban muslims. he's boasted that after attacking john mccain's war records, his poll numbers went up. paul manafort says trump will continue to go after clinton over her husband's past bad behavior. it's almost like don king. trump saying this will be the most exciting convention. he's talking about having music. he will pick a vp running mate right there. everything will be hype. i'll bet the broadcast networks will be giving this convention a lot more hours than they have done in recent years. he's going to make this

exciting. can he do it and will it matter? >> he's probably right. i thought the cable networks gave donald trump inordinate coverage. i think he got 20, 30 times the coverage than most his rivals got. i think that played into his sweet spot. i think there's something to what he says. >> when does he have to do that? when does he have to do that? >> some time before the second tuesday in november. this is a guy who, on the day he was going to win the indiana primary by 15 points and knock out all his rivals unnecessarily ted cruz' father and said he's part of a plot to assassinate

jfk, that's erratic and bizarre. >> i'm with you on that one. your newspaper is built on the idea of the television set and the boxes where you buy usa today looks like a tv set. what's happening right now? can he create a week of fantastic excitement starting with the convention where that just boosts up all his numbers. >> that's going to be part of it. any journalist who is worth their salt will be covering the real story which is this real unity around republican donald trump who's n trump. who's not there? the businesses that will be pulling out. any good journalist will be tracking down that story. >> there was this honky tonk.

everything was about big placards. he's saying this is what i'm doing here. >> the most exciting point at the last convention is saying someone talk to a chair. i think we're going to advance beyond that. that wasn't advanced very well. nobody liked it. >> they said it was negative. >> you're right. you're going to have reporters digging behind the scenes. there's going to be a lot more people there than not. there's a lot more businesses involved in sponsoring than not. they'll want to be part of what will ultimately be a historic event. number one. number two, an important political event because coming out of that convention, i think you're going to fiebds there's more of a runway for donald

trump candidacy than anybody is giving him credit for now despite the noise. >> let's talk about gamesmanship. i think there's always a game aspect in the serious business. it's going to put her into a position of holding off her announcement until philadelphia. >> it might. it absolutely might. there's nothing wrong with that. that's one of the few things that was drama at the conventions. you remember in is the 56 when it was thrown to the delegates, that was the exciting part of

that convention. i wouldn't mind if hillary kept that under wraps until we get to philadelphia. >> listen to the kennedy versus key. we had never heard a kennedy. that made him that. >> some amazing people in that field. >> we know so much. donald trump said he doesn't think he will release his tax returns. here is manager we do want to get out of him. wonder why he's holding them until after november. there's nothing to learn from them, he says. mitt romney was quick to criticize him. he wrote it's disqualifying for a modern day presidential nominee to refuse to release tax returns to the voters.

we can only assume it's a bombshell but usual size. that doesn't sound like mitt romney talking. >> if the democrats are smart they'll say strategy. >> it could be something we already know of taking advantage of various tax breaks for people who are not rich. >> can i ask a question? who's going to care? >> i'll tell you how they care. >> i think you're wrong. how will the hillary people use this if he keeps the taxes a secret? >> i love michael, but you're dead wrong on that. my aunt was a rock rib republican. i remember coming home from college. she hated the governor of new

york. i said to her, it was his re-election year. i said you're going to get your wish. he's going down. she said i'm voting for him. the other guy won't release his taxes. i paid 1,162. 46 and i'm not paying for someone who won't tell me who they paid. >> i understand that then. that's not this electorate now. >> what's he hiding? >> that's what democrats will ask. he's probably hiding something. i don't know how far that's going to carry. >> here is my rule of politics. it's a simple rule. if it looks better than it is, they'll tell you. if it looks better than it is, they won't tell you. he showed he paid a decent rate of taxes and made a reasonably defensible history of giving.

>> do you think his tax returns will trip up his campaign? >> he thinks so. that's why he's not bringing them out. >> i'm somebody who takes advantage of the tax code and the system as it is. >> marco rubio said he will support trump. let's watch what he said. this is funny. this is politics. >> my reservations about him have been stated and they remain unchanged. everything i said, i still believe. you have to make a choice. you don't have a choice between 17 people or five. >> to put it bluntly, do you want donald trump to win? do you hope in your heart of hearts that he wins and assumes the presidency? >> look, again, all the policy differences i have with him remain. all the reservations about his campaign remain. i don't want hillary clinton to win. donald trump is the only other choice on the ballot. i recognize that. i have a pledge to support the nominee on top of it. i intend to keep it.

>> well, as the old compared to her thing. here is what he said during the campaign that he still believes. let's watch. >> what we're deal with her, my friends, is a con artist. he's a con artist. this is a con job. we have a con artist as the front-runner in the republican party. >> what do you think a trump government would look like, senator? >> it would be chaos. know one knows. he's wholly unprepared to be president of the united states. this is the most important government job on the planet. we're about to turn over the conservative movement to a person who has no ideas of any substance on the important issues. the nuclear codes of the united states to an erratic individual. >> what is there con artist thing? isn't that what they were calling president obama. how does he come back from that? i support the grifter. i'm with the grifter. >> if you're under the age of 60 you have to make your decision

based on self-interest. that's why you see lindsey graham saying i'm not supporting him even though i signed the pledge. he's going to be in an uncomfortable position. those of us will ask him, so you agree there should be nukes in europe. >> is he auditioning for v.p.? is that what he's doing with this turn? >> i think he's hurting his long term political campaign. he said he would vote for somebody he described as too erratic to entrust the nuclear codes to. that's insane. you have to stick by your guns. bite your lip and say he's too erratic. i can't support him. i'm not going to vote for hillary clinton. >> you're being very sound. rubio is not alone. rick perry, bobby jindal and rand paul have expressed support for their former poeopponent. let's watch this circus of changing of minds. >> let no one be mistaken,

donald trump's candidacy is cancer on conservativism and must be clearly diagnosed, excised and discarded. >> donald trump is not a serious candidate. he's a narcissist. he's an egomaniac. the only thing he believes in is himself. >> least a narcissist and an orange face wind bag. i believe he wants power and from my point of view that power corrupts. >> they're now supporting trump. they're all with him. maybe this is why people have the attitude they have about politicians. >> there you go. >> thank you. coming up, donald trump is calming hillary clinton trigger happy. in a newly unearth interview trump said clinton deserved a pass from that because what she

heard was based on lies. here is another group excited about the possibility of a hillary clinton presidency. they think the truth about extra t terrestials are out there. we talked about donald trump's problem with women voters. does hillary clinton have a problem with male voters? we have a focus group of north carolina men and find out what they think about hillary clinton. let me finish with that all american pass time of razzle-dazzle. this is hardball, the place for politics.

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although not in government service, i was totally against the war in iraq. very proudly. saying for many years it would destabilize the middle east. sadly, i was correct. >> domnald trump has long claimd

the opposition of the iraq war was his selling policy. here is trump this saturday. >> on foreign policy, hillary is trigger happy. she's got a bad temperament. iraq, libya. she voted iraq. i voted against it except i was a civilian so nobody cared. >> yesterday buzz feed unearthed a 2006 interview that trump said clip on the should get pass for her vote. he thinks hillary should be forgiven for her vote to authorize the war. it was based on lies given to her. she's smart and has major chance to be our next president of the united states. he'll support trump as the nominee for the republican party. there's no record of him

opposing the war before it was launched. here is what he told howard stern in september of 2002. >> are you for invading iraq? >> i guess so. i wish the first time it was done correctly. >> yeah, i guess so. i'm joined by two msnbc political analysts. that's what they are. the people i really hold against it for the iraq war are those casual country club people who say what the heck. let's do it. don't think. don't discern. just follow along into war. how about some discernment? he's showing none. >> we call them the i guess so crowd. i think at this point and time we have to stop being surprised that anything that donald trump says at a moment might have been

contradicted by anything he said before. >> i pay attention to people who made that big discernment. i think this war is being sold by ideologs. they want this war. where is trump? >> here's where trump is. he's taking his weakness and trying to make it into a strength. this is what will cause him the election. this is barry goldwater revisited. he knows nothing about foreign policy. he's making this stuff as it goes along. his core con stistituency is noe same as an american constituency. most people vote on whether the candidate is erratic or not. trump is going to get a lot of votes because he's against the establishment. he loses because he's too scary. >> the quote, looks like he goes

along with the establishment. >> he doesn't know what he's talking about. he makes it as he goes along. >> i'm the most militaristic person in this room. i'm the most militaristic person. militaristic than bush. >> a, i don't think he knows what the word really means. he'll say anything at any given point in time. he's totally transactional. he's totally situational. >> is he an interventionist? he says he's not. >> he is.

>> he doesn't know what an interventionist is and he doesn't care. he makes up his decisions at the moment. tomorrow it could be a different situation. economy can survive somebody like that. this country can not survive a president that believes you can make your decision today and make a different one tomorrow and a third one the next day. >> they got to make decisions on two or three issues. it may be civil rights, the economy. it may be can you trust this guy to keep us safe. how do you make a decision on trump. is he a hawk or a dove? >> he's both. >> what does that mean? >> he talks out of both sides of his neck. >> is he likely to take us to war? >> i don't think we can predict anything with this guy. the voters he's attracting, i don't think they are making decisions policy wise. they are making it on the attitude they get from him.

whether he's hawkish or not interventionist, everybody else is wrong. >> wars start by miscalculati s miscalculations. wars start when you say something you don't mean. when you're too aggressive or not aggressive enough. he has no idea what he's doing. he has no idea what he's doing. he makes barry goldwater looks like a statesman. >> barry goldwater had an ideology. he had positions. >> his positions were dangerous. >> they may have been dangerous, but he knew what they were.

>> trump said wall street would react positively. >> what do you make of how wall street has been reacting to what our military guys have been doing? >> i think wall street is waiting to see what happens. before the fact they are taking it a little bit for granted. it looks like a tremendous success from a military standpoint. i think this is really nothing compared to what you'll see after the war is over. >> what do you mean? >> i think wall street will go up like a rocket. >> that's not what happened but that's just predictions. >> what he says at one moment has nothing to do at the next. he called hillary wonderful at one point and now she's crooked. the people like his anger, popping people on the nose. they are not being driven be i is he an interventionist or is he more hawkish. there's no details. >> it's an attitude toward the way things are. >> the trouble is the closer you

get to the election, the more people will try to think about their own safety and own families. you can not be safe with donald trump. >> hillary clinton gets elected, mistake. i think he's riskier. you want a safe president, hillary is probably your bet. i think she's more hawkish than i would but but then again i'm dovish. thank you. up next, we got a real balanced group here. e.t. fans take note. if she becomes president, she'll release details about the secretary area 51. you'll care about this know who you are. machine plap gonna email it to y.

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blast in west, texas was caused by a criminal act. no arrests have been made. 93 people were left dead and 165 wounds in baghdad. brazilian researchers say they found evidence that the mosquito born zika virus is forming into a new one that can cause brain damage an birth defec defects. back to hardball. there's a new name. it's unexplained aerial phenomenon. >> i like ufo. i don't know why. >> i think we can use them interchangeably. i would like us to go into those files and hopefully make as much

of that public as possible. if there's nothing there, let's tell people there's nothing there. >> what if there is something there? >> unless it's a threat to national security, i think we ought to share it with the public. >> that's hillary clinton saying if she were president, she would like to release information on area 51. mrs. clinton has vowed barring to any threats to national security she would open up them. her position as the latest ufo enthusist. >> i think it's time to open the books on questions that have remained in the dark.

question of government investigation and ufos. it's time to find out what the truth really is that's out there. we ought to do it because it's right. we ought to do it because the american people can handle the truth. we ought to do it because it's the law. >> is there any physical evidence that anyone has found of ufos? >> i'd be the first to admit it but there's no evidence. >> no spaceships or e.t.s of think kind? it's never been discovered? >> absolutely not. take area 51. we know that's where the government tests experimental aircraft. if people have seen weird looking aircraft flying around, it seems perfectly reasonably.

all the evidence can be explained. >> have we in our efforts to try to offer up the chance to have some foreign intelligence respond to us ever gotten a response to those transmissions? >> we have not gotten any response. we have seen a signal that got everybody excited. so far everything has a perfectly, logical explanation. it doesn't mean we have stopped searching. people are actively looking because pure statistics says, sure, maybe life is out there. it seems reasonable. we see planets everywhere we look in the universe. there's not a shred of anything resembling scientific evidence that aliens exist anywhere. >> you can come across people

with strong believes about conspiracies. i meet a lot of them. they come up and have a unitary theory. what would you say about people who believe there's a situation where the government of the united states knows about e.t.s and knows about space creatures coming here. it's for whatever reason, why do they think they have covered it up? >> they think we can't handle the truth. people love that stuff. it would be one of the most inspiring discoveries in the history of man kind. i think people would be eager to share that evidence. the whole government conspiracy doesn't fly. first of all, it's not plausible that they could keep something a secret this well, for this long. something that huge. the motivation is just not there at all. you would definitely have a whistle blower, right? >> why do you think hillary

clinton wants to open the files? >> i have to say, i don't know. >> it could be pandering. i know politics. i can tell you that's what politics is. if nobody is going for a group of a million people yet, hillary would go for them like any other politician. she's the first one to grab for them. there must be some people who want to hear this and hear the files will be opened. they will vote on that one issue. i'm sure there's a couple hundred thousands people like that. >> i'm all for releasing the records. i think, let's put this mystery to bed. those few people who are still holding out because they think there's a conspiracy will see the records and realize there isn't. i'm for releasing that data. i can't imagine there's going to be a huge political gain in that. >> thank you. i love your clear thinking and logic and scientific, well, method.

up next, we heard a lot of talk about women's concerns with donald trump. what about men? what they're saying about hillary clinton. this is the pro-man part of the show in terms of our analysis. you're watching hardball, the place for politics. you live life your way. we can help you retire your way, too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can. financial guidance while you're mastering life. muddling through your morning is nothing new. ...your nose is the only thing on your mind... ...and to get relief, anything is fair game. introducing rhinocort® allergy spray from the makers of zyrtec®. powerful relief from your most frustrating

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when she says on national tv, vote for a women because you're a woman, that's a woman card. >> wow, welcome back to hardball. that was a donald trump supporter. he believes that ril ri clhillan is playing up the woman card. he was part of a round table put together by msnbc. take a listen to their differing views on clinton and trump.

>> she did nothing about all the women in bill's life. >> do you think she's to blame? >> yes. >> if you got dog in you. you got dog in you. it ain't because your wife is not ever. >> donald trump is playing the man card. he's coming up, he's appealing to white males and he has no principle. >> joining me right now is msnbc national correspondent who interviewed those folks in raleigh, north carolina. how did you get them to speak out in a way we're not used to hearing them talk? >> they're in their hometown. they were completely comfortable. i went down there looking to get a reaction to donald trump's strategy to hillary clinton, bringing up the woman card, her 1990s.

her reaction to her husband's behavior back then. i found the man card. this idea there's a man card. it's fascinating and important for donald trump to pay attention to what came out of that meeting. if he wants to win north carolina, he's got to take the independent voters, bernie voters and bring them to his camp. that conversation suggests he may not get those democratic voters because they don't like his style. they don't like the machoness. they don't like the low energy comments. calling opponents little this or go home to mommy. that's a man card, and they don't want to be dealt in. >> the guys you interviewed do? >> the trump guys do. here is the bad news on the flip side for hillary clinton supporters. hillary clinton super pacs are spending a lot of money trying to remind voters what donald trump said. trump supporters said, we know that some of the things that

come out of his mouth aren't okay when talking about women, their bodies, personalities, however, it's entertainment. donald trump is able to connect with the voters on two levels. they give him pass and say deep down in his heart, we know he respects women. everybody does. of course you do. that's bad news for hillary clinton. >> i think they were trying to be politically correct to you. i think when they talk to the media they always clean up their act. >> no way. >> i agree with you, i guess. last night i pressed trump convention manager on his attack against hillary and bill. >> what is this thing about hillary clinton who is an abuser of women. how do you make that case? >> stay tuned. >> you have a case? >> stay tuned. >> have you heard his case? >> we have things that we'll talk about in this campaign where we will not be letting her get away with playing female

card. >> we'll have things to talk about. joining me is the hardball round table. what do you make of this in when i heard first guy talking, he doesn't like hillary clinton. it's not so much pro-male as he doesn't like the woman running for president. >> i think there's a lot more in this country than a lot of us thought or like to admit. there's a lot more racial animosity than we thought existed. >> how does hillary get hit on the rational frocial front. >> trump brought out a lot of latent racism.

he can exploit the gender gap. >> what about this hidden anti-hillary hating. i'm looking at the numbers for bernie sanders. i'm skeptical about how well he does in the general elections match up. they don't know who bernie is. he's not that well known. he's well known by people watching these programs. i wonder if anybody can tell the story of bernie sanders. >> i don't think it's so mump the woman card with bernie sanders. when i look at donald trump, if you think women have been given a boost up in life because they're women or because they're females, you're already voting for donald trump. if you look at hillary and say she's had a hard life as a

woman. when i look at donald trump saying are you going for more white working class males that are voting for you or trying to target women. hardly any woman will vote for anyone because they are being told the woman card has used the card to get ahead because they're women. when i look at the woman card, i say why aren't you say she's an out of touch woman or man. she's richer than you. she's tight with the bank. she's an established politician. that card sales with the people he need to win over. >> who are those people? >> moderate higher, more affluent republicans. >> i think he's crazy like a fox. he has a male gender gap advantage. the advantage is not outside of what bush had.

>> you're the expert here. what is the reason? i don't think it's just abortion rights. what is the essential reason why women tend to be democrats and men republican? >> i don't think it's one variable. when you look at the issue, the democratic party does line up more where women are. you have to look at what donald trump did play the male card in the primaries. he beat his poeopponents. he was a big strong guy. he de-maled most of his opponents. >> they can be de-maled? >> pretty much. you know what he means. >> part of their brand is the strong man, strong leader brand. he's encapsulates that. >> i love having you here. i can do an hour with you.

do men like, older than us, the leader comes into town, cleans up the town. he's the boss. >> that was ronald reagan on the horse. >> how are women different than that? >> he can ride in on a horse and clean up the town. >> i agree. >> they don't like the macho boss kind of guy. >> we're still dealing with stereo types of what a woman's role should be. hillary clinton in 2008 was trying to overcompensate. >> why are men out there? the negative view. why do men who are anti-hillary accuse her of enabling? why not say i'm a guy, he's a woman and she's been a victim of that. why do they make her the cause of his bad behavior? why do they do that?

>> they're looking for whatever reason to oppose her. they will never be with her. >> that's all he's saying, enabler, enabler. >> that's better than saying i don't think a woman should be president. they know they can't say that. >> what is that about blaming her not him? >> what you said. i don't want a woman to be a president. is she really an enabler. >> it's sexism. >> the roundtable is staying with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. i was traveling, i was enjoying life, i was working... it was too long since my last pap. when i was finally tested, we thought i might have cervical cancer. after worrying - no cancer. i was lucky. women... please get a pap test

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we are back. dana, tell me something big i don't know. >> well, chris this could be the last time we meet because tomorrow i'm going to make good on my promise to eat an entire column i wrote saying trump could not win the nomination. >> can you eat an online column. >> the chef has actually asked me to sign a waviver. he has prepared a taco bowl. >> are you going to ingest these products. >> it's not digested by the body. >> i love a man that's honest to his word. >> see. >> clearly. he's playing the man card. >> no woman would eat newspaper.

>> there's talk about donald trump and whether he's going to be able to raise money in the silicon valley. peter teal is a delegate for him in california, but he's not going to be part of the finance committee at this point in time. people think he could raise more money. >> an all time problem with the rocka fellers could never raise money because why should i give a buck to them. is that trump's problem. >> peter is worth about 3 billion so he might be able to gather his friends around. >> there's a lot of democratic insiders who have held back the fire but they're beginning to grumble about the tactics of sanders. >> your the pollster, how is it hurting secretary clinton. >> she needs to be uniting the party and he needs to work to bring the people to her. >> i think there's going to be a challenge at that convention. thank you. when we return let me finish

with that all american past time of razle dazzle. .

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no pill relieves heartburn faster. hey kevin. hey, fancy seeing you here. uh, i live right over there actually. you've been to my place. no, i wasn't...oh look, you dropped something. it's your resume with a 20 dollar bill taped to it. that's weird. you want to work for ge too. hahaha, what? well we're always looking for developers who are up for big world changing challenges like making planes, trains and hospitals run better. why don't you check your new watch and tell me what time i should be there. oh, i don't hire people. i'm a develor. i'm gonna need monday off. again, not my call. man 1: i came as fast as i man 2: this isn't public yet. man 1: what isn't? man 2: we've been attacked. man 1: the network? man 2: shhhh. man 1: when did this happen? man 2: over the last six months. man 1: how did we miss it? man 2: we caught it, just not in time. man 1: who? how? man 2: not sure, probably off-shore, foreign, pros. man 1: what did they get? man 2: what didn't they get. man 1: i need to call mike... man 2: don't use your phone. it's not just security, it's defense.

bae systems. let me finish tonight with that all american past time of

razzle dazzle. all the political rallies you've ever been to and all the big campaign stops have included music, a warm up and an exciting walk on. the whole idea is to create the notion that's happening is worth your time, something important is happening here. so when donald trump and his new convention manager put out the word that this summer is going to be different, what they're talking about is they're going to hype this convention not to something different, but to a new level. since the 19th century campaigning in this country has been about speeches and balloons. why republicans are better about balloons is something i have never gotten my head around. the balloons come down when they're supposed to and for whatever reason the democrats don't get the balloon drop. when the signal goes out it's time for the drop the balloons get caught up in the rigging. this summer i place my bet on mr. trump. i predict he will be out there

giving p.t. barnum a run for his money. i don't know how things will turn out in november, though i still think hillary clinton's the favorite. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on all in. >> i will be so presidential. >> on the eve of the ryan summit donald trump claims a mandate from the people. tonight the reality show rolls on. the last gop nominee says trump may be disqualified and the current white nationalist and form former trump delegate is speaking out. >> it's up to me for the white group to push our agenda more than any other agenda. >> then, my interview with bernie sanders on whether he's the better bet to beat trump. >> every