>> big thanks to donny for being here. see you monday. digging into donald's baggage. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. heard trump's unsavory chatter with howard stern and he won't release his past or present tax returns. did he think none of this would explode in his face or did he

not imagine it would get this close to actually being president. this week there were multipresident remind dee multipresident- -- multiple reminders. there's a guy that sounds like trump claiming to be his p.r. guy. that's renewed focus on his conversations with howard stern. as he said today, it's none of your business about his tax returns. as the news yesterday that trump's former long time butler called for the killing of the president of the united states. we begin with that audio from 1991. the man calls himself john miller. the washington post reports he is donald trump. let's listen. >> what's your name again? >> john miller. >> you work with donald? >> that's correct. >> he really decided that he wasn't, he didn't want to make my commitment. he didn't want to make a

commitment. he thought it was too soon. he's coming out of marriage. he's somebody with a lot of o options. he gets called by everybody. he's living with marla and has three other girlfriends. i'm sort of new here. >> what is your position? >> i'm handling p.r. because he gets so much of it. >> on the today show he denied the man was not him. >> it was not me on the phone. it doesn't sound like me. it was not me on phone. >> robert costas is a national reporter for the washington post. david corning is with mother jones and joy reid is here. joy, you're laughing already. let's talk about this. i guess we can assume, they haven't broken the case here at msnbc but most people say that sounds like donald trump.

is this the kind of thing you do when preparing to run for president? no. i wonder if any of this stuff would have really stopped him tr being where he is now. the american people that like trump, that minority that do, care about this one way or another? >> i don't think they do. it is bizarre to watch this whole presidential race boil down to the mtv show "catfish," where you have this george wallace character who did not intend to be president of the united states. otherwise, he would have done a lot of things differently. you have somebody so narcissistic that in order to deflect bad media coverage, he pretends to be his own publicist. it's weird.

>> the there's any difference of trump that call up tabloids and talking occupy this guy donald trump. this guy is really great and the guy we're watching tonight as a political figure. is he any different than that guy? >> trump has changed the political campaign. the way politics really functions in this country because of the way he engages with the press. i asked why he came to pile all this stuff on his desk and look at the press that way. he said going back to the 80s and 90s, he was someone who did serve as his own press officer who is realized the power of the press and shaping his public image. >> it's been free, hasn't it? >> it's been a will the of

coverage for him. it goes back to the way he worked the new york tabloid fls the 1980s. >> why is he denying that's him on the phone? why wouldn't he just say there's nothing wrong with what i did. it was pushy but i was ambiti s ambitious. >> i can't read the mind of donald trump. the post stands by the story. sounds like donald trump. it's something reported in the past of what he's done. let's listen to the conversation. >> there's more than some issues with him. he's a [ bleep ] traitor. t-r-a-i-t-o-r, traitor. that's the way i feel. >> you think that's what should

be done with traitors? >> i think he ought to be hung. i think he should be hung. he should be hung next to hillary clinton. i think it should be public. i think it should be televised. it should be done from the portico of the white house. it used to be the white house. >> he said he no longer works for trump and they disavow the horrible statements made by this fella regarding the president of the united states. david, good work. you scooped this thing. what do you think it means. you imagine this butler must have been mutserring along the lines sefb years ago when he worked for him. >> he's his former butler but he's been the informal historian since 2009.

he still had an association with trump. there's a lot going on here. trump tells us that he loves everybody, but he really is being sort of pushing a demagogue that seems to be enabling hatred. >> some people agree with you, many do, with what comes out about this long time experience. >> i think trump is enabling and helping people to express these ideas, these hateful ideas and feeling they are part of the mainstream of political debate. >> did trump ever meet that guy? >> i don't know but the campaign picked him. >> does this make it with him pe personally. >> absolutely. he was a guy that ran a reality

empire that was sued by the federal government for racial discrimination and housing. he ran apartments in new york that refused to rent to black people. he was sued for it and had to settle with the federal government. donald trump, when i experienced him as someone who lived in new york who wacalled for the centr park five to be executed and the death penalty should be put into effect for them. he hedged about giving the first african-american winner the soul victory. he wanted it to slar hare it wi woman who was white. randall pinkett had to object to it. he's leading the former group of

apprentice cast member who is say this guy is unfits to be president. he's has racial views that go w back to the 1980s and '90s. he's a birther. he expressed the president couldn't have been smart enough to go to harvard and couldn't have written his law review. we know who donald trump is. >> let's listen to a bit of him on stern. >> lady di had great beauty. >> would you have slept with her? >> without hesitation. she had the height, beauty, skin. the whole thing. these are minor details.

you know who has really changed, nicollet sherdan. she's a solid four. she went from being very flat chested. i view a person who is flat chested is very hard to be a ten. >> if angelina jolie is a five. what is jennifer aniston. >> a six or seven. >> who is a nine? >> my standards are very high. >> let me go to robert costa on this. i never understood the stern appeal. they weren't married guys. is that part of a self-promotion? what would he get out of doing stern?

>> you look at the howard stern audience, it reminds me of the rush limbaugh audience just in terms of its reach. it's a wide spread one. one that doesn't get mainstream attention. the working class ethic, those are the kind of people especially in certain rust belt states in the northeast have really connected with trump. >> he was the beginning of the crudification of the media. he took pride in going past these. i found some clips of donald trump where they are talking about j.lo's back side and whether it's too big or not.

he asked about if his breasts wife were injured. he's enabling and validating stern. he said stern was his buddy. this is why he's unfavorable with women much more than men. a lot of women haven't heard this stuff. >> they'll hear it now. watch his reaction. >> do you believe voters have a right to see your tax returns before they make a final decision in. >> i don't think they do. i say this. i will gladly give them. they're not going to learn anything. it's under routine audit. when the audits ends i'll present them. >> what is your tax rate? >> it's none of your business. i'll release. i fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible. >> that was a brutal counter

pun punch. what do you milwaukake of that reaction? maybe that is a sensitive point. >> i'll bet mitt romney wishes he could have said that and gotten away with it. even richard nixon released hi tax returns. clintons have released 35 years. this is domds trump saying he doesn't have to follow the most basic pursuing the presidency. we have a current president who is intellectually, as degreed as a person could be. he's viable shouldn't be in examine nati examination of donald trump, we need to be in examination of

ourself. coming up, the obama administration orders public schools to allow transgender students to use the bathroom of their choice. it's the latest flash point in the culture wars and it's triggering a backlash from the far right. would hillary kin on tclint willing to use military force. we have the author of a new book who says hillary clinton will be a hawk. the republican party starts to line up behind their nominee and why the scandal seems to trail the clintons but bounce off trump. seems like it. let me finish with man who didn't spend his life preparing to run for president. you know who i'm talking about. this is hardball, the place for politics.

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he sat down for a discussion with msnbc contributor at a conversation in las vegas. they hit on a wide range of topics. >> let me give you a few of donald trump ice policies and you tell me in you disagree or agree. temporarily ban muslims from the country. >> no. >> build a wall across from mexico? >> no. >> tear up a bunch of trade agreements and put 35% tariffs on imports? >> no. >> there america first foreign policy articulated in his speech a couple weeks ago. >> not quite my style. >> why are you for him? >> the point is while i was for some other people, they didn't win. donald trump's going to be the nominee. we, as a party, have to figure out how do we get our act together. how do we get on the same page and how do we win? >> we'll be right back. or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat

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the obama administration sied warning that transgender students must be allowed to use the restroom or locker room of their choice or risk the loss of federal money. dan patrick says the order tramples on states rights. >> president obama, in the dark of the night, without consulting congress, without consulting educators, parents decides to issue an executive order forcing transgender policies on schools and parent who is don't want it. >> patrick said texas would forfeit the $10 billion it receives rather than comply. we will not be blackmailed by the president's 30 pieces of silver. thank you for joining me. what is the mood in texas.

trying to figure out how the country has gotten so hot on this issue from the right. >> you have to remember the context of this is the texas republican convention. you have within a five block ra radius they are rallying behind this. there were signs in the ladies room advocated for the state race on this particular issue. >> let me ask you, my question about it is, i don't want to be light hearted because it's a serious human rights issue. my question is this, if someone who is identifying as female, for example, dressed as female, made up as female and the manner or presentation comes off as female, why would they want to go into a men's room. that would cause chaos. if you follow to the letter this north carolina it would be chaotic.

what room are they telling them to go to. what the their recommendation except to go away? >> i haven't heard much in the forms of recommendations. what has come up is he won't want boys run sboog the girl's restroom be we want to protect our female students. that's the focus of this. that's what i've seen. >> thank you so much. joining me is travis weber. you and caitlyn took it on on the show. let's watch a clip. >> whi'm going to be on the sam fight as them. we can walk into a bathroom. i'm not going into the men's room. >> i want america to know that transpeople are looking to do the same thing in the bathroom. no one is taking any time to

meet or greet. >> straighten this out from both sides. tell me what you think about this. what are we supposed to think about the logic and traffic management of where people of different gender identities should go. what are they supposed to do? >> i don't think this is about bathrooms at all. i think it's about equal rights. transgender people don't want special rights. we want equal protection under the law. mostly what we want is to be left alone. if we can be left alone, we'd like to be treated with love. you know how to create the perfect situation, just stop. stop coming up with these laws. there's been no reported signs of any incidents over the last several years. law very much like the one which president obama put into action

last night has been on the books in california for two and a half years now with no incidents whatsoever. i say maybe these people are really not trying. maybe is issue is not bathrooms at all. now they're trying to rile up people against transgender people and it's not right and it's not fair. >> travis, tell her what bathroom she should use. >> i'm not sure. >> just answer that question. >> i think people -- >> she would not be comfortable or not cause problem if she walked into a men's room. should she walk into a men's room. >> people with use path rooms according to biological sex with people with a genuine issue.

>> what should transgender person who identifies as a woman, what should they do? >> they can use the bathroom of their biological sex exsecept wn there's a genuine issue. >> you can't answer. >> someone that can have an issue related to this issue. this allows for abuse. all of a sudden -- >> what would be the abuse? >> a boy who says i'm expressing myself as a girl, locker room is open to them. >> what's the worst case? >> the worst case is what we're going to have under the obama's administration guidance is you'll have boys around the country saying i'm a girl today. >> where has that happened? >> that is never going to happen. >> it's already happening in

school districts. >> no it's not. >> give me an example. >> you have girl who is are uncomfortable. >> what school district? >> in the chicago area. you have girl who is are uncomfortable there. sufficient to ban together and sue. >> where has that happened? >> university of toronto. the guy was in there filming the girls. this does happen. >> the gender neutral policy in canada, that's the best you can do. i mean, this is a solution in search of a problem. i would suggest that we do is what my mother, a republican, evangelical christian suggest we do, is open your hearts. travis, if you had a child who was transgender, i'm glad you recognize the existence of

gender disphoria as a real issue. we don't deserve to be humiliated or treated with anything other than love. this is not going to open the door to boys in girls bathrooms. that's a hallucination that the right has come up with in order to scare people. it's not necessary. >> which should jenny do if she was visiting north carolina right now? should she go to the men's room? you're dodging the toughest question. what do you want people to behave like? >> it's not a matter of what i want. >> what should she do? go to men's room. >> a private business can do whatever they want.

>> should she go to the men's room or ladies room. >> it's a single use bathroom. >> that means nothing. i'm a woman. i have an f on my driver's license. i have the anatomy of a woman. because my birth certificate says m, that makes me unsafe. transgender people do not deserve to be made more unsafe. we're talking about a small but unfairly maligned group of people who want to be left alone. we wish to be treated like anybody else. that's what the obama administration's policy does. it says the title nine applies to transgender people as well. we are covered by the law. >> okay. i think we have to end it.

>> i agree with her that everyone should be treated with love and respect. that's a human basic. people have different issues. they're not arguing disrespectful. people love people and have different issues. >> seems odds that you would want her show up in men's room that you go to. do you think it's appropriate? should she go to your men's room? yes or no. >> we have to respect the privacy rights. >> you're dodging the question. >> he is dodging the question. it is a simple question. i'll be the lady's room. thanks very much. >> thank you, both. i think you both had different persons. thank you. i'm rooting for you. up next, a preview of this coming. general election match up and the question, why does scandal seem to stick to the clintons while it rolls off donald's back. this is hardball, place for politics.

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the president and first lady are hosting a state dinner for leaders from norway, finland and iceland. homeland security chief is asking flyers to be patient as authorities work to alleviate long lines. a woman in new jersey has come forward as the winner of the powerball jackpot. what about his taxes? we'll get around to that too. when you run for president, especially when you become the nominee, that is kind of expected. my husband and i have released 33 years of tax returns. we got eight years on our website right now. you got to ask yourself, why

doesn't he want to release them. yeah, we're going to find out. >> what is your tax rate? >> it's none of your business. you'll see it when i release. i fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible. >> welcome back to hardball. hillary clinton says she wants to see donald trump's tax returns. trump says his tax rate is none of george's business. it's not the only controversy dogging trump. the washington post had audio recordings of trump posing as his own publicist in the 1990s. he denied the voice was his. here is former president clinton reacting on a rope line

yesterday. >> mr. president, regarding the wall street journal report, did cgi break the law? do you have any response? >> i haven't had chance to read it carefully. i think my foundation -- >> you deny it? >> god, yes. >> let's bring in the hardball round table. michael is with the daily beast and ann is a correspondent with the washington post. this has been sort of a thing. politicians have to show the tax returns. >> he says he will. jane is working on them. she's been busy, he says. i mean, of all parties, right.

>> why do we, the great we of the political world want to see tax returns. what do they tell us about the candidate? >> it tells you the candidate is just like you. they have to put on pants legs one at a time. they have to do their taxes. it isn't a revealing look at someone's true financial picture. >> tells you how much money they give away. >> tells you how much money they give away. what their gross income is. what their tax rate is. whether they have been prudent with their investments. it gives a picture of someone's overall financial prudence. >> if you saw a bunch of them like ten in a row, you'd probably be able to figure out the wealth of someone because it's a combination of all your income. you don't take the capital gains of money growing all over the place. >> they can hide their wealth

pretty well. >> he didn't like that question. >> there's stated public tax rates then you take your fancy lawyers to cover it. mitt romney, we learned in 2012 paid about 14%. >> could the problem be his wealth is in buildings and ownership. you go out there and tell everybody you're worth $11 billion, they expect you to pay a lot of taxes. he could not be taking the money and earnings. he may be throwing it back in or keeping the money tied up all the time. >> the things the tax returns tell you are the things he doesn't want us to know that he hasn't told us. his charitable rate. whether he pays more than howard -- the billionaire, howard buffet's secretary. his rate may be way down there. does he have money in the cayman islands like mitt romney? an editor wrote a biography

about trump. he was sued by trump. one of the things came out was trump's tax returns . he said they were so redacted it looked like a cross word puzzle. >> all the black stuff. posing as this guy john martin or whoever. the potty talk on stern and all that sort of stuff, if you knew all that stuff, would he still be any further back in line than he is now? i don't think it would have affected the voters at all. you tell me. >> looking backwards, apparently not. what democrats are hoping that going forward when he will try to appeal to larger audience, that this stuff does matter. he is giving hillary clinton a freebie here. >> what about the clinton cgi

money going to somewhere they like. >> i don't know what to make of that story. i don't think we have enough context to judge that story. it's going to hover around for the clintons. there will probably be more things that will come out. it may not be big things. i have long thought the clintons should make guidelines about how the foundation will operate. >> this is a big part of their legacy. they're not giving it up. >> they don't need to. >> they don't want to know too much about the foundation, where the money has gone. they don't want that. organize it in a very

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we're back with hardball round table. . >> in south carolina donald trump blamed the mitt romney ryan loss specifically on paul ryan and reviewed and brought up that wheelchair ad in which the dark suited man is pushing the old lady over the cliff because of entitlement reform. this difficulty with paul ryan goes back a while. he doesn't want to lose on paul ryan's platform. >> everybody talks entitlement

reform but it's always dangerous. >> puerto rico, the shining stars they used to say in tv ads will be an important primary this year. nobody is focused on it. we never, ever talk about it. it's going to happen two days before california and new jersey and the rest of them vote on a sunday. >> that's good for puerto rico because they're in this financial crunch. >> 60 delegates at stake. it's a big, big number. she's going to net 20. >> i can never figure out guam. how's guam doing. it's nice know. >> she's going to net 20 delegates. >> clinton is campaigning this more places heavily for his wife than she is for herself. she's going to be in puerto rico and the virgin islands over the next two days. in the last two days he's done

six events in two states. she did one in one state. after he does puerto rico and the virgin islands, he's going to spend five days on the road in california and new mexico. >> he's still not allowed to make news. he's gagged. >> stay away from the rope line. coming up, if hillary clinton becomes more president, will we see a more hawkish administration than what we've seen from president obama? obviously, ohhh... but with added touches you can't get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee! in means protection plus unique extras only from an expert allstate agent. it'sood to be in, good hands.

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general david petraeus is fed up with the bigotry. he wrote an op-ed. he writes i have grown increasingly concerned about inflammatory political discourse that's become far too common at home and abroad. blanket discrimination against

people on the basis of their religion. these are totally counter productive. they will compounds the grave terrorist danger to our citizens. as ideas they are toxic and nonbiodegradable. it's not easily expunged. we'll be right back. you can never get enough of it. change the way you experience tv with xfinity x1. i klooks easy...the neighborhood speed record but i wouldn't be able to burn rubber without optum. see i have diabetes... which can make it a little harder to become a racing legend. thankfully, though, i have an optum nurse and in-home biometric monitoring that really work with my doctor's plan. which means diabetes doesn't get in my way... unlike the neighbor's front yard. this is healthier, powered by optum.

from health plans to providers to employers. we connect all parts of health care. healthier is here. this just got interesting. why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure.

do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. customer service!d. ma'am. this isn't a computer... wait. you're real? with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s., like me, anytime. wow. this is a recording. really? no, i'm kidding. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell. welcome back. could we see a more hawkish administration and u.s. foreign policy if hillary clinton wins the white house. it was written, clinton's affinity for the armed forces

rooted is a lifelong belief that it's vital to our national interest. back in she thought about enforcing regime change. >> what do you think quickly of the whole history of the united states in your lifetime of knocking off leaders who -- in iran, guatemala, knocking off allende in chile, patrice momba in the congo, knocking off trujil trujillo, who have i missed? we've been doing this a long time. what is your view of all those assassinati assassinations, attempts to change the history of other countries? should we be doing that kind of thing, knocking off leaders? >> in the vast majority of cases the answer months. but there's always historical games you could play. if somebody could have assassinated hitler before he took over germany, would that have been a good thing or not? >> mark lamb has written "alter egos."

everybody's going to find this fascinating. what did you make of her response to my question? i thought she'd say something like, that was a bad part of our cold war history, we shouldn't have knocked off those guys. no, she said we could have gotten hitler. >> i zeroed in on that last piece. she was almost pushing back on what you were saying and saying, there is rationale for this kind of thing. i think that's what you saw during the first term of the obama administration where she sort of functions as a house hawk. but more than even just being a hawk. she also was the person who was the most willing to see interventions ending with a good outcome. and that's what made her very different than president obama hoy think generally viewed interventions as ending with a bad outcome. >> how do you figure that with the fact she grew up sort of as a young woman with the vietnam war all around her, watching all these guys getting drafted and the killing of -- the horrible killing that went on in vietnam? most people said that was overreach, we tried to stake over a country, we tried to run it, we should have limited our intervention. yet you say she believes in

positive intervention. >> i think she does. if you look at that vietnam experience, which i tried to again in this book, she had a sort of interesting history with vietnam. she wasn't fervently opposed and passionately opposed the way some anti-vietnam protesters were. to some extent her opposition was rooted in fears of things like, was the president abusing his executive authority when he did the secret bombing in cambodia? that was something that really interested her back when she was an intern in washington. i think though the difference is, she still defaults to a belief that american intervention is fundamentally can be a good thing. it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. and the contrast i draw and i draw it through the entire book is that obama having spent a childhood in a very different place, some of it in indonesia, simply had a different view of america's role and generally thought these interventions didn't end well. then the iraq war, for him a formative foreign policy experience, probably the most important one he had and the one he brought into office with him,

whereas she had seen some things work out well. the balkan interventions. >> her key decision which hurt her in the 2008 race was supporting the authorization for going to war in iraq. how did she turn on that over the months and years since then and before that? how did she get to that decision, how has she reviewed it since? >> look, first of all she's acknowledged it was a mistake. >> what's that mean, though? what's mistake mean? >> she acknowledged it was a mistake because she said she wasn't given access -- >> that's not a mistake. >> -- to the full intelligence dossier. the point is she read the full nie that talked about whether saddam had waps or not. >> did he have nuclear weapons? no evidence has suggested we knew or thought he did but they sold it. >> that's right. so the bottom line is she sort of hung it around being deceived by the administration when the argument is she probably didn't do adequate due diligence to figure out the truth for herself. i think it was a combination of what i said earlier, which is her own instincts. plus you have to also acknowledge new york senator,

post- 9/11, wor bied about her own possible -- >> how about being a woman? it's hard to do the psycho babble. does she feel as a woman he shas to prove herself extra-tough? more of a hawk than a regular male candidate? >> i think that was probably true in the senate certainly. i almost feel at this point it's a matter of her reflectixes and instincts. maybe a pose, perhaps it was a pose early on. >> mark i think you got it. i think she's tough. i think she's going to be a strong president if she gets in there. "alter egos: hillary clinton, barack obama, and the twilight struggle over american power." a man who clearly didn't spend his life preparing to run for president, you know who i'm talking about. if you have allergy congestion, muddling through your morning is nothing new. ...your nose is the only thing on your nd...

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let me finish tonight with this. a number of politicians fit the stereotype we all remember from school. they decide from an early age, their middle teens, they want to go into politics. they have a role model in mind. john f. kennedy, ronald reagan, you name it. they set about a course, settle on a college that will give them the right brand, a major state university for the more democratic touch. ivy league school to set them up and apart. they major in political science, run for student government, all with an eye for law school and with ate slipstream for running for public office. they try to keep their nose clean as we used to say so they

could breeze into politics without anyone having anything "good" on them. this i can say without any dispute is not the way donald trump built his life prior to running for president. he was married a couple of times, bragging about himself as an tractive partner, chatted away on "the howard stern show." and paid the least amount of federal income income taxes he could legally get away with, because he said so. to prove he wasn't conniving the run for office he seems to have wildly masqueraded as his own publicity agent even to the point of using assumed names. none of this is the usual foreplay for seeking the approval of the majority of the american voters. the usually model is to be as straight and boring as one can, avoiding any behavior that might be called interesting much less colorful. i'm not sure how to whale this flotsam and jetsam that's washed ashore except to say, had it washed ashore a year ago i doubt it would have stopped or slowed the trump bandwagon. i'm not sure what most americans

are looking for in the next president is boredom, it might be the opposite, which explains why we could elect, for better or worse, despite hell or high water, a president with a past. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes," starts right now. tonight on "all in." move over, carlos danger. meet john miller. >> he's coming out of a marriage and he's starting to do tremendously well financially. >> the presumptive republican nominee today denying he posed as his own spokesperson in the '90s. >> you're telling me about it for the first time and it doesn't sound like my voice at all. >> tonight an nbc news exclusive with the reporter who talked to john miller. "the washington post" reporter who broke the story. and the trump senior adviser who says that voice is not donald trump. >> i don't think we ever reported that about -- >> he called and wanted to go out with him, that i can