weird news day, right? i mean, it's not every day -- not every year -- when the republican party's presidential candidate apparently turns on tape pretending to be someone else and hangs up on reporters who ask about it. no, it's friday the 13th and everything, i know, but seriously, wow! i mean, usually, you'd have to go to prison after a day like this. but because you've been so good, instead, go play hardball. digging into donald's baggage. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington if donald trump's baggage is exploding like a trunk load of jack in the boxes. in a matter of hours, we've heard audiotapes of him

pretending to be his own pr guy, heard a former butler spew forth on both the villainy of barack obama and hillary clinton, heard trump's unsavory chatter with howard stern, and just today that he won't release his past or present tax returns. did he, donald trump, when he decided on running for president think none of this would explode in his face, or did he not imagine he would get this far, this close to actually being president? this week, there were multiple reminders of how much bag nlg that nominee, donald trump, brings with him. there was the 1991 audio on obtained by "the washington post" of a guy sounding like trump claiming to be trump's pr guy, a focus on his conversations with howard stern over the years, his insistence he won't release his tax returns until after the election. aez he said today, it's none of your business. and his former long-term butler casually called for the killing of the president of the united states. we begin with that newly uncovered audio from 1991. the man in it calls himself john

miller. "the washington post" reports that he is druonald trump. let's listen. >> what's your name again? >> john miller. >> and you work with donald trump? >> that's correct. >> he really decided that he wasn't -- you know, he didn't want to make any commitment. he didn't want to make a commitment. he really thought it was just too soon. he's coming out of a, you know, a marriage that -- and he's starting to do tremendously well. he's somebody that has a lot of options. and frankly, you know, he gets called by everybody. he gets called by everybody in the book, in terms of women. he's living with marla and he's got three other girls. i'm sort of new here. >> what is your position? >> well, i'm sort of handling pr, because he gets so much of it. >> well, this morning on the "today" show, trump denied the man on the audio was him. >> it was not me on the phone. and it doesn't sound like me on the phone, i will tell you that. and it was not me on the phone. >> robert costa is that national reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. david corn is bureau chief for

mother jones, and my colleague, joy reid is here, an msnbc anchor. joy, you're laughing already. let's talk about this. i guess we can all assume, although we haven't -- i don't think that they've broken the case here on nbc yet. but the fact is most people would say that sounds like donald trump, pretending to be his flack. and why would he -- well, is this the kind of thing you do when you're preparing to run for president? no. so what does this tell us -- i wonder if any of this stuff would have stopped him from being where he is right now. the american people who like trump, that minority that do, care about this one way or another? >> you know, i don't think they do, but it is bizarre to watch this whole presidential race boil down to essentially the mtv show "catfish," where you have this sort of george wallace meets reality show character, who clearly did not live his life with any intent whatsoever of ever being president of the united states, otherwise he would have done a lot of things differently. and you have somebody who seems to be so narcissistic that in

order to deflect bad media coverage, he pretends to be his own publicist. it's just weird! and i think that the thing that you're going to start to see happen is -- >> well, it worked, didn't it? >> it worked so far. >> maybe that's why he was well known, because he kept calling up and said, this guy's really cool. this guy, trump. >> let me go to costa. robert, you've covered this guy to the point, probably as well as anybody, if not better and are trying to figure him out. is there any qualitative different between the trump that would call up tabloids, talking up this guy named donald trump, like he's a ventriloquist or something, hey, there guy's really grade. and the guy we're watching tonight as a political figure. is he any different than that guy? >> trump has changed the political campaign, in the way politics really functions in this country, because of the way he engages with the president. early on, i was always struck when i went to his office, he really read bylines and studied

the press and the reporters. and i asked him, why did he pile this stuff on his desk, he said, going back to the '80s and '90s when this audio was recorded, he was someone who did serve as his own press officer, who realized the power of the press in shaping his public image. >> well, it's been free, hasn't it? robert? >> it's been a lot of coverage for him and this goes back to the way he really worked the new york tabloids in the 1980s. >> why is he denying that's him on the phone there, him calling in, about the greatness of donald trump. why not say, there's nothing wrong with what i did? it was a little pushy, but i was ambitious. why didn't he get it over with? >> i can't read the mind of donald trump, but "the post" stands by the story, stands like donald trump. and this is something that has been reported in the past as something he has done. >> you might say the other unsavory story from the trump world this week came by incendiary comments made by trump's longtime ex-butler, anthony sincall.

nbc spoke with sin senecal yesterday. >> there's more than some issues with him. he's a [ bleep ] dam traitor. t-r-a-i-t-o-r. traitor. period. that's the way i feel. >> and so you think that's, i guess, what should be done with traitors? >> i think he ought to be hung. i think he should be hung. i think he should be hung next to hillary clinton and i think it should be public. i think it should be televised. i think it ought to be done from the portico of the white mosque. it used to be the white house. >> trump's spokesman said yesterday that senecal no longer works for trump and they totally and completely disavow, the trump people do, the horrible statements made by this fella regarding the president of the united states. david, good work. you scooped this thing. what do you think it means that he had a -- you imagine his butler must have been muttering along these lines in the seven years that we worked for him.

>> but he's also, he's his former butler, but he's been the informal historian at mar-a-lago since 2009, when he wanted -- when he retired as butler -- >> paid? >> he gets paid by the people he leads tours upon. he's been working there recently. so he still had an association with trump. and to me, there's a lot going on here. i think trump, you know, tells us that he loves everybody, but he really is being sort of preaching a demagoguery that seems to be enabling hatred. there's no -- >> what's the connection between what you just assert there had, some people agree with you, many do, about what comes out about this. >> i think trump is enabling and helping people to express these ideas, these hateful ideas, and feeling that they're now part of the mainstream of political debate. just the way mother jones also, i'm proud of this week, were the first to report they need a white nationalist as a candidate for a delegate in california. and that fellow told us in an

interview, see, i'm mainstream now. >> but did trump ever meet that guy? >> i don't know, but the campaign officially picked him. and they said, we made a mistake. >> joy, your reaction to all of this? does this mix in with who trump is personally? >> absolutely, it does. donald trump, before he was a politician, was a guy who ran a real estate empire who was sued by the federal government for racial discrimination and housing. he ran apartments the new york that refused to rent to black people. and he was sued for it and had to settle with the federal government. donald trump, when i experienced him as somebody who lived in new york, was a guy who called for the central park five, who were falsely accused of gang rape, to be executed. and that the death penalty should be reinstated in new york for them. and took out full-page ads to that effect. donald trump has been saying racially incendiary things since the late '80s. just because he hung around mike tyson doesn't mean that african-americans haven't known who this guy is for a long, long time. even if his more petty role as

somebody who was the head of "the apprentice," the host of that tv show, he hedged about giving the first african-american winner the sole victory. he wanted him to share it with a woman who happened to be white. and randall pinkett had to object to that. randall pinkett is now leading the group of former "apprentice" cast members who say, this guy is unfit to be president. he has has racially incendiary views going back to the 1980s and 1990s. we know who this guy is. we need to remind people. he's a birther. he thinks the president couldn't have been smart enough to go to harvard. that he couldn't have written his law review articles. he said that mexican migrants are rapists. we know who donald trump is. >> and to further go in the direction you're going, while people -- the people who were arrested for the wilding incident were all acquitted. >> exactly. >> something else from his past that could haunt donald trump, his frequent guest appearances on the howard stern radio show. let's listen to a bit of him on "stern." >> i never get this thing with

lady di. i know you're very gracious of her. >> he really liked -- >> i tell you what, i think she's magnificent. lady di was truly a woman with great beauty. >> you would have slept with her? would you have slept with her? >> without even hesitation. she had the height, she had the beauty, she had the skin. the whole thing. she was crazy, but, you know, these are modern people. you know who's really changed? nicollette sheridan. i think she's a solid 4. >> okay, now -- she was a 10. >> no, she was an 8. she wasn't a 10. >> she was an 8, you think? >> no, she went from being flat-chested. i view a person who's flat-chested is very hard to be a 10, okay? >> if angelina jolie is a 5, what is jennifer aniston? >> i would say she's a 6 or a 7. >> really? >> who's a nine? >> howard, my standards are very high. >> okay, let me go to robert costa on this. let's get back to politics a bit. i never understand this stern people, except to maybe young -- i don't know who they are. they aren't married guy or

mature people. in my sense, immature people listen to stern. he has a huge audience. is that part of his self-promotion? what would he get out of doing "stern," politically or commercially? what would -- what was he up to there doing that show? >> politically, right now, you look at the howard stern audience, it reminds me a lot of rush limbaugh audience, just in terms of its reach. it's a subculture, all on its own, and it's a widespread one, one that doesn't often get mainstream attention. and that working class ethic that the stern audience has, those are the kind of people, especially, in certain rust belt states and in the northeast, they've really connected with trump. >> let me ask you about that. tell me about stern. i don't know anything about him. what's the audience like? >> i think there are people going for crude. he was there at the beginning of the crudeification of the immediate. and he took pride in going past these,, you know -- >> you know, don imus crossed a lot of time and got in trouble for it. but stern always crossed the

line. >> that was the point. crossing the line and talking about sex and really on jbjec y objectifying women over and over. i found clips talking about j.lo's backside and if it was too big or not. and they asked the question, if melania was in a car accident and still love her. and trump asks, what about her breasts? are her breasts injured? again and again, he's accepting and enabling and validating stern. he says it was all in good fun, because stern was his buddy. but you've got to re-look at this. this is why he's unfavorable with women, much more than men. and a lot of women haven't even heard this stuff yet. >> they're going to hear it now. it sounded like trump took a page from his support of governor chris christie when he was asked by george ste stephanopoulos about his tax return, george asked him, what rate do you pay. watch his reaction here. >> do you believe voters have a right to see your tax returns before they make a final decision? >> i don't think they do, but i do say this. ly really gladly give them -- they're not going to learn anything -- but it's under

routine audit. when the audit ends, i'm going to present them. that should be before the election, i hope it's before the election. >> what is your tax rate? >> it's none of your business. you'll see it when i release. but i fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible. >> well, joy, that was a brutal counterpunch. none of your business. didn't remind me of governor christie talking to that woman on the radio show. what do you make of that reaction? maybe that is the sensitive point. he doesn't want to talk about his rate. sounded like it. >> i'll bet mitt romney wishes he could have just said that and gotten away with it when he was running in 2012. even richard nixon released his tax returns. the clintons have released 35 years or something of their tax returns. this has donald trump saying he doesn't have to follow even the most basic norms of pursuing the presidency. i think we have to remind ourselves once again, abraham lincoln, teddy roosevelt, franklin delano roosevelt, dwight ieisenhower, these are te people who have occupied the office of president of the

united states. we have a current president who is as urbane and intellectual as a person could possibly be, as degreed as a person could possibly be. the fact that a person this crude is viable as president of the united states shouldn't be an examination of donald trump. it's an examination of ourselves. what is going on in this country that this person you just listened to those recordings of is viable as president of the united states? >> okay. robert costa, david connor, joy reid. coming up, the obama administration orders public schools across the country to allow transgender students to use the bathroom of their choice. the latest flash point in the culture wars of this country and it's trigger backlash from the right. and would hillary clinton be more willing to use military force around the world than president obama? we've got the author of a new book who argues that clinton would be much more of a hawk than president obama. he's coming here to make his case and the "hardball" roundtable is coming with us tonight to cap off what has been a wild week in politics, as the republican party starts to line up behind their nominee, and why

does scandal seem to trail the clintons but bounce off trump? seems like it. finally, let me finish with a man who clearly didn't spend his life preparing to run for president. you know what i'm talking about. this is "hardball," the place for politics. shoots and bns shoots and bns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you.

former house speaker john boehner was at his candid best thursday, when he sat down for a discussion with msnbc contributor, steve rattner, at a conference out in las vegas. boehner and ratner hit on a wide range of topics, one of them, of

course, being, donald trump. >> let me give you a few of donald trump's policies and tell me if you agree or disagree. temporarily ban muslims from the country? >> no. >> build a wall across with mexico? >> no. >> tear up a bunch of trade agreements and put 35% tariffs on imports. >> no. >> this neoisolationist americ first policy that he articulated in -- >> not quite my style. >> why are you forhim? >> the point is, while i was for some other people, they didn't win. and donald trump's going to be the nominee. and we as a party are going to have to figure out, all right, how do we get our act together? how do we get on the same page and how do we win. >> we'll be right back. windows 10 is great because

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choice or risk the loss of federal money. critics like texas lieutenant governor dan patrick says the order tramps on states' rights. >> president obama, in the dark of the night, without consulting congress, without consulting educators, without consulting parents, decides to issue an executive order, forcing transgender policies on schools and on parents who clearly don't want it. >> well, patrick said, that's the lmpb that texas would forfeit the $10 billion it receives rather than comply, telling the associated press, quote, we will not be blackmailed by the president's 30 pieces of silver. well, joining me now is abbey livingston, washington bureau chief for the texas tribune. thank you for joining. what was the mood in texas about this? i'm trying to figure out how the country has gotten so hot on this issue from the right, especially. >> it's restive. you have to remember the context of this is the texas republican convention. you have within a five-block

radius the most conservative of conservative texans all rallying behind this. so it is everywhere you turn around at this convention. even to the point that there were signs in the ladies' room, advocating for the state chairman's race on this particular issue. >> let me ask you, what are the -- my question about it is, i don't want to be lighthearted, because it's a serious human rights issue to most people the way they look at it. my question is this, if someone who was identifying as female, for example, dressed as female, made up as female, whatever, the manner, whatever the presentation comes off as female, why would they want to go into a men's room? i mean, that would cause chaos. in other words, if you followed to the letter this north carolina dictum, it would seem to be chaotic. what is the -- what are they -- what room are they telling the transgender people to go to? the one that they look like they believe in, or the one that they don't look like they belong in? dead serious, here. what is their recommendation to the transgender person, except to go away? >> i haven't heard much in the

form of recommendations. what has commonly come up in the discussion on this is, we don't want boys running into the girl's restroom. we want to protect our female students. >> i understand that, yeah. >> that's the focus of this. and so, that's what i've seen. >> yeah, well, thank you so much, abby livingston, "the texas tribune" down in dallas. joining me now, professor jennifer finney boilin. you and caitlyn recently took on the issue of transgender bathroom choice on the show. let's watch a clip. >> certainly, when it comes to trans issues, i'm going to be on the same fight as them. we can walk into a bathroom? yeah, i'm certainly not going in the men's room. >> i want america to know that trans people are just looking to do that same thing in the bathroom. no one is taking any time to meet or greet. >> jenny, straighten this out from both sides pip mean, tell me what you think about this? what are we supposed to think about the logic and the traffic management, if you will, of

where people of different identities, gender identities should go when they go to the bathroom in public places like schools. what are they supposed to do? >> i don't think this is about bathrooms, at all. i think it's about equal rights. transgender people don't want special rights. we want equal protection under the law. and mostly what we want is to be left alone. and if we can't be left alone, we would like to be treated with love. so, you don't want me in the men's room. and you know how you create that perfect situation? just stop. stop coming up with these laws. stop causing trouble where there's no trouble. there's been no reported signs of any incidents over the last several years. by the way, a law very much like the one which president obama put into action last night has been on the books in california for 2 1/2 years now with no incidents whatsoever. so i say, maybe these people are

really not trying -- maybe the issue is really not bathrooms at all. maybe, because, now, gay men and lesbians can get married and they're no longer the whipping boys and whipping girls in this country, now they're trying to rile up people against transgender people. and it's not right and it's not fair. >> travis, tell jenny what bathroom she should use. >> well, you know -- >> what one should she use? >> i mean, i'm not sure -- >> just answer that question. >> i think people should -- >> she said she would not be comfortable or not cause a problem if she walked into a men's room. should she walk into a men's room? >> i think we can do things the way we've done them for decades and people can use bathrooms according to biological sex with specific accommodation made for people who have a genuine issue. if we look at the north carolina law, it made an accommodation. people are not happy with that, however -- >> let's talk about transgender people. what should a transgender person who identifies as a woman do? what bathroom should they go to? just keep it simple? >> yeah, well there's an issue of privacy --

>> you can't answer the question, can you? what should they do? >> they should use the bathroom of their biological sex except when there's an actual issue. >> what does that mean? >> if there's a person who have gender disforeya. >> what's that? >> it's a medical issue related to this issue. the law allows up for people to say, my gender expression is the opposite sex. this allows for abuse. >> how? >> a boy saying, i'm expressing myself as a girl, the locker room is open to them. >> what would be the worst case? >> the worst case is what we're going to have under the obama administration's guidance, which is purporting to be law, which is you're going to have boys around the country saying, i'm a girl today. >> when has this ever happened? >> that is never going to happen. >> when has it ever happened? >> it's already happening in school districts -- >> no, it hasn't. >> give me the example -- >> what school district. >> this is in palatine school district in the chicago area. you have girls who are uncomfortable there, sufficient

to band together and sue -- >> no, no. i'm asking, where has a boy used the guy's transgender rights and dignity to go into the wrong bathroom. where has that happened? >> university of toronto, a guy was in there filming the girls. >> the gender neutral policy in canada? that's the best you can do? i mean, look, this is a solution in search of a problem. and what i would suggest that we do is what my mother, a republican evangelical christian, suggested we do. which is open your hearts. travis, if you had a child who was transgender -- and i'm glad you recognize the existence of gender disforya as a real condition that many of us face. we don't deserve to be humiliated. we don't deserve to be treated with anything other than love and this is not going to open the door to boys in girl's

bathroom. that is a hallucination which the right has come up, in order to scare people. and it's not necessary. even better would be if we simply open our hearts and treat each other with kindness and with the respect and dignity that we all deserve as citizens of this country. >> what should jenny do if she was living or visiting north carolina right now? should she go to the men's room? >> well -- >> you're dodging the toughest question -- >> it depends k-- >> what do you want people to behave like. >> it's not a matter of what we want. >> what should she do? >> she should go to men's room? >> a private business can do whatever they want. >> what about the airport. >> an accommodation should be made -- >> can you answer the question. should jenny go to the men's room or lady's room? >> she can use an accommodation bathroom, a single use warmth, would protect the privacy issues on either side. >> let her respond.

does that mean anything? >> that's gobbledygook. that means nothing. i am a woman. i have an "f" on my driver's license. i have the anatomy of a woman. but, because my birth certificate says "m," i would have to go to the men's room. and that makes me unsafe. and transgender people do not deserve to be made more unsafe. we are talking about a small, but unfairly maligned group of people who want to be left alone. we wish to be treated with -- like anybody else. and that's what the obama administration's policy does. it says that title 9 applies to transgendered people as well. it's not new ground. it's just saying that we are covered by the law. >> okay. i think we have to end it. quickly. >> let me just say, i agree with her that everyone should be treated with love and respect. that's a human basic. it's a human basic. and many people have different issues. i'm not arguing disrespect. people love people and have

different views on human sexuality that's motivating at of this decision. >> it seems odd to me that you would want jenny to show up in the men's room you go to. you think that's appropriate? do you think that's appropriate? >> it's a matter of sorting out -- >> it's a simple question, should jenny go to your men's room? >> we have to protect the privacy interests of people on both sides. >> you're dodging the question. it's a tricky questions. >> it's a simple question. i will be in the lady's room. thanks very much. >> and thank you both. >> i think you have very different opinions and we've heard them both. travis webber, thank you. jenny, thank rooting for you. jenny finnegan boylan. why does scandal seem to stick to clinton and roll off donald's back? this is "hardball," the place for politics. caring for someone with alzheimer's means

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because when you run for president and especially when you become the nominee, that is kind of expected. my husband and i have released 33 years of tax returns. we've got eight years on our website right now. so you've got to ask yourself, why doesn't he want to release them? yeah, well, we're going to find out. >> what is your tax rate? >> i -- it's none of your business. you'll see it when i release. but i fight very hard to pay as little tax as possible. >> welcome back to "hardball." hillary clinton says she wants to see donald trump's tax returns and trump tells george stephanopoulos on "good morning america" that his tax rate is none of george's business. it's not the only controversy dogging trump today. as we mentioned earlier, "the washington post" reported on audio recordings of trump posing as his own publicist back in the early '90s. trump denied the voice was hid on the "today" show. meanwhile, "the wall street journal" reported that the clinton global initiative set up

a $2 million financial commitment that benefited a for-profit company part-owned with people ties to the clinton, including a close friend of former president bill clinton. here's former president clinton reacting on a rope line yesterday. >> mr. president, regarding the "wall street journal" report. did cgi break the law? >> regarding that "wall street journal" report. do you have any response? >> no, i haven't had a chance to read it carefully, but i think my foundation, whoever is answering it. >> so you deny that cgi broke the law? >> oh, god, yes. >> let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable. margaret and michael and ann guerin with "the washington post." ann, you want to talk about tax things first. this has been sort of a qu

quadrennial thing, trump has yet to show the tax returns. or bernie. >> jane's working on him. he's been busy, she says. but of all parties going back to -- >> -- the main pieces for a metropolitan party. why do we, the great american way, want to see tax returns. what do they tell us about the candidate? >> a couple things. it tells you that the candidate is just like you. they've got to put on their pants one leg at a time and got to do their taxes every year and submit their taxes. it isn't a particularly revealing look at someone's true financial picture. it gives you an idea -- >> tells you how much money they give away. >> tells you how much money they give away, what their gross income is, what their tax rate is, whether they've been prudent to some degree with their investments. that sort of thing. it gives you a picture of someone's sort of overall financial prudence. >> and if you saw like ten of them in a row, you would probably be able to figure out

the wealth of somebody. because wealth is a extinction combination of all your income. but you don't take the capital gains -- >> they can hide their wealth pretty well. one thing you can learn is the effective tax rate. the key word is the effective tax rate. >> he didn't like that question from george? >> not at all. there are state and published tax rates and you take your deductions and hire your fancy lawyers and come out with an effective tax rate. the average american pays 20 to 22%. mitt romney, if i recall correctly, in 2012, paid about 14%. >> could the problem be his wealth is in buildings, in ownership. you tell everybody you're worth $11 billion, they expect you to pay a lot of taxes. first of all, he could not be taking the money in earnings. he may be saying, i'm just throwing it back in or keeping the money tied up all the time. >> the things the tax returns tell you are the things he doesn't want us to know, that he hasn't told us. you know, his charitable rate. whether he pays more than howard -- the billionaire. howard buffett's secretary,

right? >> warren buffett. >> because hi rate may be well down there. does he have money in the cayman islands, like mitt romney. a bloomberg view editor, tim o'brien, wrote a biography of trump. he was sued by trump. and one of the things that came out, finally, was trump's tax returns. but he said they were so redacted, it looked like a crossword puzzle. >> all the good stuff's crossed out. >> let me ask you if all this stuff adds up. if he won't turn in his tax returns, he's posing as this guy, john martin or whatever the name is, as his own pr guy. if the thing -- the potty talk on stern, all that sort of stuff, if you knew all that stuff, would he still be any further back in line than he is now, ann? i don't think it would have affected his voters at all, but you tell me. >> well, no, going back -- looking backwards, apparently not. because -- >> they've known it all up-front. >> the equivalent stuff hasn't seemed to have affect him.

what democrats are hoping is going forward when he tries to appeal to a larger audience that this stuff does start to matter. particularly on the taxes. i think he's the giving hillary clinton a free freebie here. >> what about the clinton cgi money going to someone they like. i don't know how much discrimination you're allowed to show in thiz contributions. >> i don't know. >> i don't know what you make of that story. i don't think we have enough context to really judge that story. but i would say this. i think that -- i have always thought that the foundation is going to hang around, it's going to hover around as a story for the clintons. there's probably going to be more things like this that come out. i have long thought that the clintons should make some kind of statement about guidelines that the foundation will operate under in the event -- >> but they're not givingt away. this is a big part of their legacy. they're not giving it up, right? >> not at all. >> and day don't need to. >> and day don't want to know too much about the foundation, where the money's gone. remember, there were confluences

between bill clinton's speeches, who was getting money, hillary secretary of state, and they don't want that. they brought in donna chaletla to organize it. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. i know how it is. you're all set to book a flight using your airline credit card miles. and rprise! those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want. luckily, there's a better way... with the capital one venture card. with venture, you'll earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. and when you're ready to travel, just book the flight you want, on any airline, then use your miles to cover the cost. now you're getting somewhere. what's in your wallet? unless you have allergies.

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we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. the first to tell me something i don't know is margaret carlson. >> in south carolina, donald trump blamed the mitt romney/ryan loss specifically on paul ryan and reviewed and brought up that wheelchair ad,

in which the dark-suited man is pushing the old lady over the cliff, because of entitlement reform. so this difficulty with paul ryan goes back a while. and he doesn't want to lose on paul ryan's platform. >> everybody talks about entitlement reform, but it's always danger. >> puerto rico. puerto rico, the shining star, as we used to say in the tv ads. actually, going to be an important primary this year in the democratic process, and nobody's focused on it and we never, ever, ever talk about it. it's going to happen two days before california and new jersey and all the rest of them vote on a sunday. a lot of delegates. 60 delegates. >> that's good for puerto rico. because they're in the financial and they all have to say the right thing. >> 60 delegates at stake. that's right, that's true. it's a big, big number. >> and why do they get votes? >> i can't answer that. but listen, she's going to net 20. >> i can never figure out guam, for example. how's guam doing. it's nice to know --

>> bill clinton is now campaigning in more places and more heavily for his wife than she's campaigning for herself. if travel is your guide, he's going to be in puerto rico, in the virginia islands over the next two days. in the last two days, he's been -- he's done six events in two states. she did one, in one state. and after he does puerto rico and the virginia islands, he's going to spend five days on the road in california and new mexico. >> he's still not allowed to make news. >> he made a little bit yesterday. >> he doesn't want to. margaret carlson, ann guerin, and michael ntomasky. if hillary clinton becomes president, will we see a more hawkish administration than what we've seen from president obama? this is "hardball," the place for politics. and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud

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the all-new audi a4, with available traffic jam assist. general david petraeus is fed up with the anti-muslim bigotry that some say has stained our political discourse. the former cia director and u.s. army general wrote an op-ed in "the washington post," voicing his concern over the danger this rhetoric poses to our country. while never naming donald trump, it is clear where his words of condemnation are aimed. petraeus writes, i have grown increasingly concerned about inflammatory political discourse that has become far too common, both at home and abroad against muslims and islam, including proposals from various corners for blanket discrimination against people on the basis of their religion. as policy, these concepts are totally counterproductive, rather than making our country

safer, they will compound the already grave terrorist danger to our citizens, as ideas, they are toxic and, indeed, nonbio-degradable, a kind of poison that once released into our body of politics is not easily expunged. we'll be right back. (man) ah i forgot to record that show. (woman) now we have to wait forever to see it. (jon bon jovi) with directv, you don't. ♪ you see, we've got the power to turn back time. ♪ ♪ that show you missed, let's just go back and find. ♪ ♪ and let's go back and choose spicy instead of mild. ♪ ♪ and maybe reconsider having that secd child. ♪ ♪ see, that's the power to turn back time. ♪ (vo) get the ultimate all includ bundle. call-800-directv.

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from asthma problems and may increase the risk of hospitalization in children and adolescents. breo is not for people whose asthma is well ctrolled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. once your asthma is well controlled, your doctor will decide if you can stop breo and prcribe a different asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. do not take breo more than prescribed. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ask your doctor if 24-hour breo could be a missing piece for you. see if you're eligible for 12 months free at mybreo.com. welcome back to "hardball." could we see a more hawkish administration and u.s. foreign policy if hillary clinton wins the white house in 2016? as "new york times" reporter mark landa recently wrote, quote, clinton's affinity for the armed forces is rooted in a lifelong belief that the calculated use of military power is vital to the defending of our national interest.

that's quite the contrasting view of her former boss, president obama. back if march during a town hall, i asked hillary clinton what she thought about enforcing regime change. >> what do you think, quickly, of the whole history of the united states in your lifetime, of knocking off leaders, whether it was iran or guatemala or knocking off arende or the congre conga. we've been doing this for a long time. what is your view of all of those assassinations, trying to attempt to change the history of other countries. should we be do that kind of thing? knocking off leaders. >> in the vast majority of cases, the answer is no, but there are always these historical games you could play, if someone would have assassinated hitler before he took over germany, would that have been a good thing or not. >> mark landa is with me, and he's written a new book.

everybody's going to find this fascinating. i thought she would say something saying, that was a bad part of our cold war history, we shouldn't have knocked off all of those guys and she said, we could have gotten hitler. >> she was almost pushing back on what you were saying, saying, there is a rationale for this kind of thing. and that's what you saw during the first term of the obama administration, where she sort of functioned as a house hawk, but more than even just being a hawk, she also was the person who was the most willing to see interventions ending with a good outcome. that's what made her very different than president obama, who generally viewed interventions as ending with a bad outcome. >> how do you figure that that she grew up with the vietnam war all around her and watching all these guys all around her and the horrible killing going on. many people said that was overreach. we tried to take over a country and run it, we should have limited our intervention. yet you say she believes in positive intervention.

>> i think she does. and if you go back and look at that vietnam intervention, she had an interesting history with vietnam. she wasn't fervently and passionately opposed the way some anti-vietnam protesters were, and to some extent, her opposition was rooted in fears of things like, was the president abusing his executive authority when he did the secret bombing at cambodia. that was something that really interested her back when she was an intern in washington. i think, though, the difference is, she still defaults to a belief that american intervention is fundamentally, can be a good thing. it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. the contrast i draw, and i draw it through the entire book, is that obama having spent a childhood in a very different place, some of it in indonesia, simply had a different view of america's role and generally thought these interventions didn't end well. and of course, the iraq war, for him, a formative foreign policy experience, probably the most important one he had and the one he brought into office with him, whereas she had seen some things work out well.

the balkan interventions. >> her key decision politically, which hurt her in the 2008 race was supporting the authorization for going to war in iraq. how did she turn on over the months and years since then and how did she get to that decision and reviewed it since? >> look, first of all, she's acknowledged it was a mistake. >> what's that mean, though? what's "mistake" mean? >> okay. she acknowledged it was a mistake, because she said she wasn't given access -- >> that's not a mistake! >> -- to the full intelligence dossier. the thing is, she didn't read the full nad about whether saddam had weapons of mass destruction. >> did he have nuclear weapons? i have seen no evidence that we ever thought or knew he did. but they sold it. >> so the bottom line is, she hung it around being deceived by the administration, when the argument is she probably didn't do adequate due diligence to figure it out for herself. i think it was a combination of what i said earlier, her own instincts, plus, you have to also acknowledge, new york senator, post-9/11 -- >> concerned about israel, too. >> and worried about her own

possible -- >> how about being a woman? does she feel as a woman, she has to prove herself extra tough? more of a hawk than regular male candidate. >> i think that was probably true in the senate, certainly, but i think at that point, it's now a matter of her reflexes and instincts and less of a pose. maybe it was more of a pose early on. i think now it's much more -- >> i'm with you. mark, i think you got it. i think she's tough. i think she's going to be a strong president if she gets in there. look out, bad guys. anyway, "alter egos: hillary clinton, barack obama, and the struggle for power." when we return, the man who didn't spend his life preparing to be president. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered

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let me finish this tonight with this. a number of politicians fit the stereotype we all remember from school. they decide in their middle teens they want to go into politics. they have a role model in mind, john f. kennedy, ronald reagan, you name it, and set about a course. they settle on a college that will give them the right brand, an ivy league school to set them apart. they major in political science, run for student government. all with an eye for law school, and with it, a slip stream for running for public office. they try to keep their nose clean so they could breeze into politics without anyone having anything good on them.

well, this i can say without any dispute is not the way donald trump built his life prior to running to president. he was married a couple of times, bragging about himself as an attractive partner, chatted away on "the howard stern show." and oh, yeah, he paid the least amount of federal income taxes he could legally get away with, because he said so, and he wildly masqueraded as his own publicity agent. none of this is the usual foreplay for seeking the approval of the majority of the american voters. the usual model is to be as straight and as boring as one can be, avoiding any behavior that might be interesting, much less colorful. i'm not sure how to weigh all of this floatsom and jetsom that has washed ashort, but had it washed ashore a year ago, i'm not sure it would have stopped the bandwagon headed to cleveland. i'm not sure what americans are looking for in the next president is boredom, i think it

might be the opposite, which is why we could elect, for better or for worse, for hell or high water, a president with a past. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris move over, carlos danger. meet john miller. >> he's coming out of a marriage and he's starting to do tremendously well financially. >> the presumptive republican nominee today denying he posed as his own spokesperson in the '90s. >> you're telling me about it for the first time and it doesn't sound like my voice at all. >> tonight an nbc news exclusive with the reporter who talked to john miller. "the washington post" reporter who broke the story. and the trump senior adviser who says that voice is not donald trump. >> i don't think we ever reported that about -- >> he called and wanted to go out with him, that i can tell you. plus the trump explosion on taxes. a look at the sordid world of clinton conspiracies trump is preparing to deploy. as the obama administration lays