hi, i'm erica hill. a lot happening in the race for 2016 with donald trump including a meeting with henry kissinger. the two sit down to discuss foreign policy and on the democratic side, tensions bo boiling over after last night's split victories. clinton took kentucky and bernie sanders on oregon and striking a defiant tone on that victory. >> let me also say a word to t e leadership of the democratic party. >> boo! >> the democratic party is going to have to make a very very profound and important decision. it can do the right thing and

open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change. [ applause ] >> how is the party responding? we will ask directly this hour with us dnc chair debbie wasserman-schultz. she will be with us for a live interview. jacob rascon is just out side where donald trump is meeting with the former secretary of state any minute. so much said about where donald trump stands on policy and just recently we're hearing in an interview with reuters, said he would speak directly with north korea's leader, what are we expecting to come out of this meeting with trump? >> reporter: the meeting expe expected to take place sometime after 2:00. he has some interviewed

scheduled at trump tower. when i left trump tower moments ago the motorcade was getting ready and should take place at some point after 2:00. as far as what there is to talk about, much of what trump has said over the past 9 and 10 months most controversial has been about foreign policy talking about building the wall and the muslim ban and yesterday talking about kim jong-un, so they have a lot to talk about there. this comes in the past week and a half trump has been meeting with a lot of establish speakers, speaker paul ryan and former secretary of state, james baker, coming here to these offi offices, almost a right of passage to talk to him, the former secretary of state, the 92-year-old former diplomat, a lot to talk about. tough to say what will come out of it, whether he will level

with trump on issues where he stands and trump trying to be on board and meet with a lot of establish figures, this a step, a crucial step. >> a crushal step, right of passage. oh, to be a fly on that wall. an issue that continues to dog the trump campaign, his taxes. for the last four decades, every major party nominee has released their tax returns. donald trump said he would do the same if he became a candidate. in the recent months he backed away from that information and said he won't release his taxes until an irs audit is finished. the irs said there is nothing to prevent him from releasing the returns in the midst of an audit and the tax returns will be asked of potential running mate, part of the vetting process. katy, you have confirmed the

vetting process will require some potential running mates hand over their tax returns. will those be made public, katy? >> reporter: i don't think those tax returns will be made public but part of the normal vetting process of a vice-presidential pick, legal and political and financial, interesting donald trump is refusing right now to release his tax returns he says are under audit because his lawyers are telling him to, even though the irs says there's no reason you couldn't do that and no reason he couldn't release his older tax returns. regardless of that, vp picks that are submits to the trump campaign and trying to be considered for a joint ticket with him will need to hand over their financials. that does include tax returns. when i asked donald -- not donald trump, when i asked his campaign senior advisor if that

was at all hypocritical, the senior advisor said, no, it's not because donald trump is not running for vice president. on policy for vice-presidential candidates there is no litmus te tests. i asked, will they have to have a certain position on abortion? the campaign said, no, there is not the case. they're hoping for a framework that the potential candidate will have a similar framework of ideas to donald trump not necessarily exactly mimicking or mirroring his ideas and not any one of those platforms the candidate might have, no one platform would necessarily take the person out of the running. they will take all the platforms policy positions and beliefs into account as a whole when they go through this presidential or this vetting process. it is still very early on, though, and they don't expect to announce a pick until july. erica. >> so we'll bob counting down

until then. meantime we won't see the tax returns for some time, donald trump did file his financial disclosure form. anything sticks out in that? >> reporter: so far much of what we saw in the original financial disclosure form lists a number of his assets and properties many listed worth over $50 million and also claiming to have quite a large income from last year. so much of the same as we've been seeing, the campaign maintaining over and over again you won't learn anything from his tax returns and learn much more from this sec filing but still no concrete number on what donald trump's earnings are in that form because the majority of it lists over $50 million as a line in it and doesn't list exact numbers for assets. >> katy tur for us with more on this whole process. appreciate it as always. ben ginsberg is a former general couple of the republican

national committee and msnbc political analyst. always good to have you with us. >> nice to be here. >> quickly because we're coming off of this with katie, does the financial disclosure form clear anything up? >> it does. you get a lot of information and get to see the individual's assets and reliabilities are. what you don't see are precise figures and many individual arrangements that lead to the entries on the financial disclosure form. it tells you a lot but not everything. >> but not everything, some things we would get in a tax return. i want to jump onto this meeting happening today between donald trump and former secretary of state, henry kissinger. laid out in many ways, this is a rite of passage for candidates. on the heels of some comments for donald trump, most notable he said he would speak directly

to kim jong un, a major pivot for u.s. foreign policy. how important is this meeting for donald trump and what realistically will come out of it. >> to set the record straight, barack obama answered a similar question in 2008 that he would meet with everyone. it is not unusual for people running for president to make comments like that. the meeting today, i think you have to give donald trump for wanting to sit down with henry kissinger, james a. baker, two of the deeds of the republican foreign policy establish. i would expect meeting with the north korean leader and how to conduct foreign policy will be part of what he discusses with secretary kissinger. that's all to the good. >> there is still some apprehension. mike murphy, an advisor to jeb bush's campaign talked earlier

about the comments and what he's expecting. >> i think he is a stunning ignoramus on foreign policy issues and national security which are the issues i care most about. he said one stupid reckless thing after another and shown no temperament to try to learn the things he doesn't know. he doesn't know just about everything. he said recently about korea to reuters he would meet with the north korean dictator which breaks up policy how we treat dictat dictators, pulling out of nato. the guy has a chimpanzee understanding of national security policy and i frankly think the stakes of the national political stakes are important and i can't support him. >> some strong words there, ben. how does he go about changes that perception. that's one extreme view. this shows he's open to learning things. how do you change the perception. >> we'll put mike dowd as

undecided for the moment. what you do is do what donald trump is doing, meeting with some of the deeds of foreign policy. at some point, i would expect he'll come up with a speech and number of white papers outlining his views. you basically get rid of those broad comments that somebody is an ignoramus by actually going out and showing the specifics and a well thought-out policy and ability to synthesize the issues. >> let's talk fund-raising for a moment. we're learning a little more about this deal between the trump campaign and the rnc. there is a lot of ground that needs to be made up in terms of fund-raising. when you see what you know about the deal, do you believe it's being focused in the right ar areas? where does donald trump need to look up if he needs to catch up to some numbers on the other side of the screen? >> the deal is the right deal, the traditional joint fund-raising agreement between a

nominee and party with the twist since 2012 the number of state parties an individual can contribute to has changed and more state parties in the deal this time. in the past, those joint fund-raising agreements have been tremendously successful because the campaign brought a network of donors and bunglers, who were able to then leverage their connections. the trump campaign, because it was largely self-fundi ining thh small dollar donors does not yet have that network. gathering the network of individuals to give and raise money is what will be crucial. >> we'll be watching for that. i want to get your reaction to this, ben, it is coming in to me at the same time you're hearing it. donald trump has unveiled this list, 11 people he lists as potential supreme court justi justices. i'm having a little glasses issue today, pardon me while i

put this up in my face. his picks include, here are the names. steve colitan of iowa, allison, i believe ied of colorado, raymond grounder of arizona. pennsylvania, raymond of michigan. thomas of utah, william pryor of alabama. wisconsin and don will let of texas. donald trump said in march he would release a list to ease concerns about his conservative credentials when it came to the republican primary and the list would include judges everybody respects, likes and totally admi admires. great conservative judges in his words, in elects and people that you want. do any of those names stand out to you? >> a number of them do. i'm not familiar with each. a number of strong federal and state judges in there, all principled conservatives, i

suspect they are all members and participants in the federalist society, the umbrella group for conservative judicial thought and has been for 25 years. that all in all in a list i think will ease a lot of conservative concerns about who might be appointed to the courts. >> so could allay some of those concerns. why do you see this list being released today? >> i'm not sure of the exact timing on today. it has been a list that has been talk about for a while, as a way for donald trump to show his conservative bona fides with the conservative community. i think it's pretty good timing to do that in the run-up to the convention. >> we've not this in the run-up to the convention. i know you said some stood out to you. how much input do you think donald trump has had on this list and could any of that input

be from people who are just starting now to join the behind the scenes efforts of the campaign now that he is in fact the presumptive nominee? >> i think to gather that list, it does include a number of jurists from states that would require a fairly broad range of conservative input to that. i think it is part of the whole process of consolidating the party and conservative movement. if donald trump is going to run into a problem at the cleveland convention, it will basically come from grassroots conservati conservatives. i think that list is designed to touch a number of the issue areas grassroots conservatives care about. >> this is one of the things conservatives have said, look, we would need to know who you would look at as a potential supreme court nominee before we can throw support behind you. is this perhaps in some ways an

olive branch from conservatives from donald trump talking about uniting the republican party? >> i think so. to compile this list, what i'm sure the trump campaign did was read the judicial opinions from this list of judges. there would be, i suspect, a consensus of conservative thought around the opinions these judges have, about their public records. >> ben ginsberg, always great to have you with us especially with a list of supreme courts nomi e nominees. talk about this falling well. and more on this new list now from donald trump, 11 potential supreme court justi justices. people he would have on his list. we're going to go through it a little bit deeper with our own ari, chief correspondent on the other side of this break. to shut everybody else up about me quitting smoking. i was going to give it a try,

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we continue to follow this breaking news. presumptive republican nominee, donald trump has released a list of 11 potential supreme court justi nominees. it's alison of colorado, raymond of missouri, thomas hardy man of pennsylvania. raymond ketlage of michigan, and alabama, minnesota and wisconsin names. he planned to release the list to ease concerns about his conservative credentials within the republican party and during

the republican primary. he said then the list would include judges in his words everybody respects, likes and totally admires. he went on to say great conservative judges and intellect that you want. ari, how much da we know about the names on this list? >> we know a ton. these are judges who have been through confirmation in their home states or federal appeals courts. the head line for me having just gotten this, the ap breaking the list of names, donald trump is an unconventional candidate in many ways, this is from a republican conservative view a fairly conventional list. what do i mean? these are individuals briefed to be fairly pro-life based on their records, fairly pro business in a lot of their jurisprudence and perhaps most importantly as we look at an open vacancy on the supreme court with republicans saying they will not fill it with

obama's nominee, these are people basically for the most part are current active judges. donald trump has not picked people outsiders but current judges either at the top echelon of their state, the minnesota supreme court, michigan supreme court or top of the judiciary, appeals court, the 8th circuit among others. >> they're at that level and to mention to get to that level, there is a fair amount of vetting that has already happened. one thing that stood out this is in many ways a conventional list. we talked briefly about this just before the break with ben

ginsberg, if he was looking to alleviate concerns of conservatives in the party, this is what to expect. >> i think so. this is to assuage people. there are a lot of criticisms of trump that go unaddressed by him and he will say, forget about it or i'm different or get with the program. we are looking at an area he's not doing that, somewhat unusual, and certainly nominees talk about presidential names and did not happen in several presidential cycles you have a nominee to put out a formal list to bring scrutiny to these individuals goes on with their day jobs and saying let me be clear to other conservatives or voters who care about this, this is exactly the kind of person i am thinking about. there is nothing binding here, he could put out a list of names and could pick someone completely different. this is an area he is saying, i

take the concern seriously and recognize the judiciary is special, supreme court lifetime appointments and not a hypothetical if we get to november and judge garland an the d.c. circuit has not been confirmed currently the expectation, there isn't a wide expectation he would be confi confirmed and this is one of the first big decisions the president would make, a lifetime tenure decision. this isn't a thing like no more suit suitors, the complaint they had about other appointees weren't reliably conservative or call strict constructionists or political activists, pro-life. these are the people i'm thi thinking about j they're on current courts for the most part and they are conservative. >> pete williams, i want to bring you in this discussion. ari brought up a point of merrick garland. this hangs in the balance and much discussion over the fact of meeting with president obama's

pick to fill that vacancy on the supreme court. bring us up to speed. remind viewers, where does that stand now? >> dead in the water is the simple answer. i agree with everything ari said here. this list is intended to say, no one on here is really scary, so don't worry. i'd be curious to know whether before making these names public the campaign asked them if it's okay to make their names public. let's assume that donald trump gets elected president, they're not all going to get on the supreme court and not all going to be chosen to be his nominee. do these people want it known they were considered but not selected. having said that, there are three appeals court judges on here put on the appeals court bench by president george w. bush, bill pryor of alabama, diane psych in milwaukee, wisconsin and steve colloton in

illinois. it is somewhat a presidential list, mainstream conservative perhaps a little to the right of the mainstream. i agree with ari, that's the purpose of putting the list out although i think it is very strange for a presidential campaign to say these are the people we're considering, most of whom we'll never end up nomina nominating. as for the garland nomination, it remains where the leadership and the republican party has said. they're not going to act on it, that is their position. the big question is after the presidential election, if for example hillary clinton gets elected president, would the senate then say, you know what, merrick garland is about as mainstream judge we will get from a democratic nominee, let's go ahead and confirm him. they say they won't do that but that's the best hope for the administration. >> best hope for the administration but the reality is we could still get to this

point and may be thrown another list of names. are any of the names on this list things that have, to your knowledge, names to your knowledge, that have been thrown about in the halls perhaps there on capitol hill by republicans as people who they would like to see nominated? >> no. i've not heard any talk like that. it's all about merrick garland and why the people won't give him a vote and say they want the people to speak. if the people speak and say we want a democratic president j then would they say okay, well, merrick garland is probably a little more mainstream, a little more moderate than any nominee we're likely to get from hillary clinton in her first nominee out of the box, let's go ahead and confirm him assuming we can't do any better than that. that's the big question. >> so many questions still, as we continue to play this gue guessing game and we continue to wait. pete williams and ari mel ber,

appreciate you breaking in on this news for us this afternoon. >> still to come we turn to the democratic divide as bernie sanders turns up the heat on the democratic party, we head to hillary clinton headquarters in brooklyn to see how her campaign is reacting to these escalating tensi tensions, next. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪ thank you. seriously though, stacy went to a great school and she's really loyal. you should give her a shot. sanjay's a team player and uh... [ "dreams" by beck ] hmmmmm...

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if legalzoom has your back.s, over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. welcome back. half past the hour as we continue to follow this breaking news, a list of 11 potential supreme court nominees being released by the trump campaign coming to us from the "associated press." one of the names on that list is diane sykes from wisconsin, her husband, a very dear friend, charlie sykes is on the phone. thanks for being with us. >> my pleasure. >> you two remain very close. have you spoken to her yet? >> he actually dropped her name during a debate a couple months ago. we had spoken and, of course, my two sons are interested. they just texted me a few

minutes ago saying, i guess ywe didn't ruin mom's supreme court chances yet. >> what was your reaction when trump dropped her name during the debate and your kids' ears perked up, how did she feel about it at the time? >> i'd rather not talk about the private conversations. she would be an outstanding choice for supreme court. she's one of the most respected judges in the country. i supported her strongly for wisconsin in the 7th circuit. i don't really take donald trump that seriously. i don't believe anything he s says, but she would certainly be an outstanding choice. >> you're saying you don't believe anything he says. do you then think that this is actually not an accurate list, that were he to become president, this would not necessarily be the 11 names he would consider? >> based on the way he has flip-flopped on every other issue and saying everything he says is just a suggestion, i don't know why we would think this is other than just a

suggestion. >> so what is the point of releasing the list? is it in fact to appeal to conservati conservatives, as pete williams s says, they don't have to be afraid? >> i do think so. i think from his point of view, it's a smart thing and voters who have concerns about donald trump, this one issue of the court might make a difference to them. coming out with a credible list, i don't know all the 11 names but a lot of those names would be the short list you get of respected conservative jurists would go a certain way towards reassuring those conservatives. >> is it enough that some of them may win their support, do you think it is enough to reassure these larger parts of the party who are not yet convinced they're ready to throw their support behind donald trump? >> there are those of white house are never trump and never trump means never trump. those of us who are never trump. i get the impression we are a smaller group than we might have

suspected. we will see. it will give a little cover and comfort to paul ryan, a fellow wisconsinite moving towards an endorsement and probably have some positive effect. >> you mentioned your group of never trump is shrinking although i think you're still carrying your flag there pro proudly. what do you think that is winning people over? >> i think a lot of it is simply never hillary, the opposition to hillary clinton. and frankly, this issue of the supreme court looms very very large among conservatives who think, okay, they may disagree with him or may have doubts about him, but the supreme court is for a generation, so you elect a president for four years but you might elect a supreme court justice for 10 or 20 years, very persuasive for a lot of conservatives. >> charlie, thank you for joining us this afternoon and calling in. >> my pleasure. >> that's normally what you say on your radio show. if for some reason diane calls you and wants to talk us to,

feel free to give her our number. >> probably unlikely but i will. >> thanks. there are going to be strong feelings on both sides. i think one of the lessons of the election of 2008 is not confuse the passion in the primary for disinterest in the general election. >> that, of course, white house press secretary josh earnest talking a short time ago about the rancor in the democratic party which seems to be on the brink of fracture. bernie sanders and hillary clinton split last night's primary in oregon, a tough setback for sanders who needed landslide wins to catch hillary in the delegate count. and he issued a warning to the democratic party. >> the diabetic paremocratic pa make a very profound and important decision.

it can do the right thing and open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change. >> we are joined now by the senior citizen from michigan, hillary clinton reporter, debbie stabenow, good to have you with us. >> good to be here. >> you heard a lot about senator sanders and a lot of talk, one of our key stories on msnbc, we look at this fracture within the democratic party, how do they unite democrats today and forward. >> first, we welcome bernie sanders as a senator into our democratic caucus. he's been a valuable part of our caucus. if we win back the majority like we hope we do he will be chairman of the budget committee, a very important role. i worked with both hillary clinton and bernie sanders,

there is very little light between them in terms of their issues and voting. this is all about how do we get to where we want to go? how do we get to universal healthcare and how do we lower the cost of college and do away with student loans and grants and education like the republicans want to do. right now, it's tense. this is the way it always is. i remember eight years ago being for hillary, she won 7 out of the last 10 race, it was very intense. but people came back together when they took a look at the choice on the other side, and the fact that we fundamentally share the same values. on the other side is somebody frankly who is reckless and a bully and has absolutely no business running for president of the united states. >> eight years ago, it was a slightly different situation, when you look at some of the supporters. so a number of bernie sanders supporters, as we know, not necessarily registered democrats, many independents,

very vocal, while senator sanders you say is welcome be n within the party, they are making their voices heard that they don't feel a part of the party and not sure they want to be a part of the party. how do you draw those voters in where a number of independents could be seen going either way. >> first of all, it's very important they engage and they vote and they look at the choices in the fall for our country moving forward. are we going to have the right values that give everybody a fair shot to be successful, both in a job, access to college, protecting their pensions, healthcare, all the things that are absolutely critical for people in michigan as well as across the country. folks can decide whether or not to be part officially of the democratic party or not. i think it's the party's responsibility to make sure that processes are fair. i'm confident that as we go forward, everybody's going to be

working hard to make sure that that's the case. in a general election, independents, republicans, democrats will have to make a choice. i think it will be very clear when we look at hillary clinton versus donald trump what the right choice is. >> you said it's the party's responsibility to make sure everything is fair. as we said some people say they don't feel it's been fair. do you feel up until this point it has been a fair race? >> i think what is challenging is that when you're very passionate and you don't win, either you don't win a vote in a caucus or primary or you don't win because the folks that sh showed up at the convention weren't registered to vote so they couldn't become voting delegates or if something else happens, i get that people are frustrated and that they're passionate. you can't stop somebody from being upset because they don't get what they are fighting for.

but the basic rules have been and need to continue to be fair. we need the input. we need the debate. we are talking about how do you get to you understand veruniver. the other side wants to block medicaid and it's a whole different thing in terms of our values and donald trump and republicans values. >> speaking of donald trump, michigan is one of the states where the trump campaign has said it will focus ramping up to the general election. on our own nbc news electoral battleground map we have misch leaning democratic. and the words are that the trump card is being taken very seriously. michigan is a state whoever the democratic nominee is, is going to have to be here early. do you agree? >> i do think it's important to take michigan seriously.

we're a state that's been in real transition economically and we have a lot of folks, first, that are grateful to president obama to stand with us to save the auto industry. they want to make sure their job has a good wage and their pension protected and they have healthcare and so on, all the things we all care about. here's the reality, when they take a real look at donald trump, his recklessness, the fact he's a bully, the fact when he makes things, they're in china and they say, hey, that doesn't stand for me. i don't want suits and ties, or whatever else is made by donald trump being made in china and brought back over here, i want them made in the united states, i want them made in michigan. that's not what's happening with donald trump. i think when they take a good look it's very clear and they will support hillary clinton. >> i want to real quickly before we let you go get your reaction to the 11 supreme court nominees the trump campaign released. one of those names on that list

is joan larsen of the michigan supreme court. what do you know about her? >> i think we should look broadly at the third branch of government first of all the republicans are refusing to fill a vacancy so the court can't fully function over a year and they need to do their job under the constitution. secondly, donald trump wants to pick people who already decided on xwaifcases before he puts th the bench. he wants somebody who will vote against roe v. wade, not somebody who will listen to the case but somebody who will pick a side before they even hear the case. fundamentally, i think that's wrong. >> senator debbie stabenow, we appreciate you joining us, thanks for your time this afternoon. >> you're welcome. >> we've been asking you to weigh in on our microsoft pulse question. can bernie sanders and hillary clinton unite the democratic party? here's a look at the results so far this hour. the pulse is live.

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i would be surprised if there are any democrats who would describe any of those 11 individuals as a consensus nominee. but the individual president obama put forward is somebody republicans described as a consensus thnominee. i think that speaks to the wisdom of the senate acting on the president's nomination. i think it speaks to the president's commitment to fulfilling his constitutional responsibilities to fulfill a vacancy on the supreme court in a way that is consistent with his desire to protect the supreme court from the kind of partisan wars it's been subje subjected to of late. >> white house press secretary josh earnest, reacting to this breaking news we've been

following as soon as it came out to us the trump campaign rele e releasing this list from presumptive republican nominee donald trump of 11 pro-tensional supre supreme court justices he says he plans to vet s ts to vet and seat of the late antonin scalia. you may recall back in march donald trump said he planned to release the list to ease concerns about his conservative credentials in that primary and also said the list would include judges everybody respects, likes and totally admires and people he referred to as great conservative judges, great intelle intellects, the people that you want. i want to bring is now for more analysis, ari melber and jane who wrote about this very topic. jane, you've been speaking with some social conservatives since this list came out. what's the initial reaction to these names? >> i spoke to a group that op

openly campaigned against donald trump in the primary. they said this looks very pro-life and be surprised if we find problems with this list and know it is out there to bring the associate conservatives that need to get behind him. >> i believe on your screen, is this donald trump, donald trump moments ago leaving trump tower making his way to the meeting with henry kissinger, the meeting all of us would love to be there for if only we could be a fly on the wall and ask him more questions about this list of potential judges. interesting the reaction you got, jane. probably not all that surpri surprising, as we know this has been a major concern, the potential vacancy on the supreme court even if we take justice scalia out of the equation here is a major concern for voters on both sides. is this list enough to sway some conser

conservative s who may not have been ready to throw their support behind him as a nominee? >> i think they need something to say, that guy i really like him, i can support this. for people who don't like donald trump, his unpredictability will make them question a list like this inflammatory for people who want something to cling on to, this might be enough. >> you bring up his unpredictability, not only is it unconventional co-release this list at this point even before the convention, there is some concern this could be perhaps a suggestion, like some of the other things we've seen from donald trump. a list coming out like this, how surprising is it from an illegal perspective these names would be thrown out? >> it's surprising in that it's putting the cart before the horse and you haven't necessa necessarily vetted these people or consulted with them.

the trump campaign leaked this out and they don't get into what their process was and whether they vetted. five of these people were on the heritage foundation suggestions, a group seen as staunchly pro business and pro-life and standing for a lot of conservative values. that's interesting because that overlap indeed, trump said on may 21st, he was going to work with heritage on names. another part of this attempt to show conservatives he would take this seriously and be more formal about it. our legal unit spoke to heritage and told us there was no formal counsel offered but did provide the same list to trump they provided publicly. and whether this makes conservatives happy you have six people on courts of appeals and another five state courts of supreme court justices. what does that mean? it means every potential nominee for the court according to

donald trump has a judicial record. that is something the legal and activists groups like because they can pour over that record to make a determination. who is not on this list? mike lee, teaspo party utah senr seen as very conservative isn't on this list, a little more of out of the box pick and another missing is senator ted cruz who is known as a litigator, legal expert and staunch conservative, had they been on better relat n relations, this is something where people talked about that might be something to flatter ted cruz with maybe not the cabinet maybe an appointment and lord knows he cares deeply about the supreme court and talked about it a lot and been a solicitor general. he is absent from these names. >> absent but could it be it is too soon and the wounds are too fresh. >> it might be. but i don't know if you could

put someone you call lying ted on the supreme court. but they will be going through this list and if it's even 13458 they may oppose those people on the list, not just pro-life, but life-long movement conservati conservatives. >> donald trump is not the official nominee, the presumptive nominee for all intents and purposes. he is not the president at this point. he has no vacancies to fill at this point. how important is it they do go through this list with a fine tooth comb and make sure each of these 11 people is up to snuff in the eyes of the greater conservative movement? >> it will be huge for the actual movement. i'm not so sure for donald trump. we've seen him change his mind. i can see him saying we didn't see this person early on. we know there are likely to be several positions open for the next president, something conservatives are very intere interested in, huge for the movement for donald trump, he

just wants to win some points. >> ari melber brought up a couple people besides ted cruz, mike lee. is there any you thought is not on this list or is it early for you like a lot of us? >> it's early to say these are my supreme court picks, i haven't gone to the convention yet. donald trump doesn't play by the rules and he needed to wrap up social conservatives and get ted cruz fans on his side. >> you said donald trump plays by his own rules this entire campaign season and you and i talked about this a lot, has not followed any rules. is this something you can see echoed on the democratic side? supreme court justices are always a topic of conversation. could that be elevated to a higher point within the conversation? >> i'm not sure. it will make a lot of headlines, if one of these justices does something the conservative movement doesn't like in the next year or election that can be really really potent.

i think donald trump is barga bargaining he will get a big bang for his buck, a lot of headlines and a lot of people who maybe need to get behind him early, something to rally around. the conservative movement looks at the race and see hillary clinton and donald trump, they're more likely to do for donald trump. their apgss are limited at this point. >> you mentioned mike lee not on the list, but thomas lee is on the list. what do you make of him? >> thomas lee is the brother of senator mike lee, associate justice on the utah supreme court. he passed unanimously on a vote at the state level, their jir judiciary committee. seen as a very conservative jurist, has a background also as basically like mike lee, the son of a former u.s. solicitor general. the whole lineage relating to the law what many call a strict constructionist or conservative view of the law, goes to the point i was referencing earlier,

most people don't know a lot about the difference between a federal and state judge, it all sounds like judges. if anything, it's leaning a little more conservatively to put so many state judges particularly from conservative states on this list, from the political point i would expect we will hear from people themselves i would expect the overlap with the heritage list, that is something that is going to be welcomed by conservatives. there is a view of conservatives some people on the federal bench are too liberal, living view of the constitution and some favorites are in the states and either people elected or in wisconsin, there was one appointed by governor walker there. these are people i would expect to be welcomed by the conservatives out there active on these issues. >> also i madge because there are certain -- imagine because there are certain states important. in michigan, our battleground map leaning democratic, donald trump wants to put in a lot of time and energy there.

interesting some of the states we're seeing represents. >> absolutely. there is a grab bag quality to this, what our own pete williams was referencing earlier, are you taking a list by citing their names if you haven't talked to them and most by definition will not end up on the supreme court by donald trump either because he loses the election or wins and picks one or two and this is a list of 11. to your point about regional pl politicking and regional stories, up and down side and we know it will happen because we will do it as journalists and political groups will do it, we point out what these people have said about donald trump recently or in the past, how did that work out? are any of these people critics of donald trump? >> a lot to get to. we have to wrap it up for moment at this hour. our thanks to jane timm and ari

melber. my colleague, thomas roberts is here next. he continues our coverage of breaking news. stay with us, you're watching msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ that's life. you diet. you exercise. and if you still need help lowering your blood sugar... ...this is jardiance. along with diet and exercise...

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hi, everybody. good to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts in new york. we're following the latest from the trump campaign unconventi unconventional move from the presumptive nominee. this list of 11 potential supreme court justices to fill the vacancy by justice antonin scalia and why they made this short list is coming up in a bit. first, the meeting for two of the more divisive figures from the history in american politics, donald trump and henry kissinger, face to face, much like the presumptive nominee for the vice-president he is

considered either a hero or veil lan for his foreign policy decision for asia in the 1970s. coming kday after trump was quotesed saying he would have no problem talking with north korean dictator kim jun ul about the nuclear program. there really is a civil war brewing on the democratic side. split wins. bernie sanders winning oregon, losing kentucky to secretary hillary clinton. at this minute, though, needs just 85 more delegates to clench the nomination. as bernie sanders goes after the democratic part. i. >> let me also say a word to the leadership of the democratic party. >> boo! >> open the doors, let the people in! [ applause ]