on the air at this hour and update you with the situation of the down aircraft over seas. egyptair 804. the search today has reports of three different types of debris, floating aircraft matter and see cushions and floating personal effects that could be traced back to passengers and sadly, what could be floating human remains. additional area of what the european space section of a possible slick on the surface of the water. that should be able to be tested because jet fuel is light as oppose to the many, many vessels in the mediterranean leaking something like oil and diesel fuel. all these clues together could give us a first concrete look of where this aircraft went down and near in the 40 hour mark,

daylight is fading of the skies over the mediterranean. these last twelve hours have shown us some results. we have three correspondence standing by and able to talk to us, in cairo and kerr simmon standing by in paris where this flight took off. and in our washington bureau, aiman, lets begin with you of all of the findings i just mentioned, which can be said to be real confirmed by either the government of egypt or egyptair? >> reporter: yeah, well the egyptian military is leading this investigation in terms of recovery retrieval of some of those had been explicit and the language they are using. they are saying "they" have been able to recover personal

belongings as well as part of the wreckage belonging to the flight 804. they believe to be apart of 804, egypt flight 804 as oppose to other be diarrhdebris that's in. they are finding some of those items according to the egyptian military, that stuff will be brought back here to cairo to a facility that's set up where they'll under go investigation by a team of experts and led by members of civil aviation. we know that team includes representatives from air bus as well and the french investigators who arrived in kay row this morning. we are not aware if those pieces they recovered have been returned to cairo or are they going further analysis or are they right now at seize? that's a critical part of the initial investigation. so far, they have not found the two key pieces of data on the

flight which would be the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. that yet has not been found, brian. >> let be fair here, they had an erroneous treat earlier on that they indeed found or seen debris that it could turn out in hindsight of early pieces of debris but i am guess to the point that you just made, they are trying to be extra cautious at this point. >> reporter: yeah, absolutely. there is no doubt that everything should be taken with a dose of healthy skepticism. for example, we know that representatives from the civil aviation said there is a distress call. well, that was refuted by higher levels within the egyptian government. again, what the military is saying and this is perhaps the most as of yet, the most

authoritative information is saying the wreckage they doufou belong to flight 804 as oppose to debris they found earlier. now, they are identifying it is 804. does that mean any of the materials or has the egyptair logo on it. they have that confidence in putting out that statement but they have not made that information public to the new york or anyone else for that matter. >> thank you, we are trying to gather as much as we can no of this downing of this egyptair flight. kerr simmons in paris and kerr, where you are opens up a whole different front in this investigation. charles de gaulle airport, the second busiest in europe and routinely called for all the wrong reasons and the safest in europe and though that does not mean sadly as we have learned, a

web against terrorism. >> reporter: yeah, that's what they are worried about here. whatever it is, it turns out the brought down of this plane the spotlight may turn back to the airport unless it is pilot area, something to do with the crew on board, if it is a connected to terror then the question will become how did that happen and what kind of security breach potentially happened at this airport if it is related to an aircraft. well, the question would be on the services that this aircraft is giving. remember air bouses not far fro here, they are bracing themselves to find out what happened and of course, there a are -- charles de gaulle airport's security has increased.

they removed a number of staffs between 70 and 80 we think were removed. they removed security clearance because they were worried about them. if it is the case that something was smuggled on board this plane or at another airport and brought here, that'll be a big question to us and it will be a blow to the psychology to the french and so many blows to the sense of safety. >> kerr simmons outside the city of paris at the very busy charles de gaulle airport here. thank you, we have a lot of questions for nbc tom costello covering aviation for us, he's in our washington bureau and he's been working on this story non stop. the differences between this downing and others we have come to know recently, i heard an expert on the waters of the mediterranean say this morning, it is such a busy while a large

sea. the waters are so busy and it would be hard to find as he put a section of the sea bottom that has not had a vessel past years. that's a huge bonus for people want to get resources to the suspected site of the downing of this jet as possible. >> i think you are absolutely right. it is a point that i was making yesterday morning as well. this is a body of water of every major naval force in the world has some sort of a presence. gout the italians and the greeks and britts and the french. everybody is in the mediterranean region. you add to the coast guard rescue operations by multiple nations because of the micro crisis so you got a heavily traverse piece of water there. as to why they are now thinking increasingly that this is looking more likely that this is

a terrorist act. the erratic nature of the plane's action. a quick way went off radar and a according to the greek's radar and doing a 360 in the air. that's no at normal behavior for the plane. that would suggest the plane may have come apart. take note there were no distress calls or may days which leads to the theory o f a sudden break up in flights. we are looking at whether there maybe the reputation of the air bus 8320 in of itself. this is one of the most flown aircraft in the world and has a tremendous reputation. one of these planes take off every two and a half seconds. and then we continue to look at what has been said regarding

the -- i am looking at my notes here, pardon me of the chatter and intel on this. american military intelligence saying their notes does not show any sort of explosive action and the community of nations suggested that there may have been an explosion. here is our security animalyst talking about the development. >> it is rare of the case of isis for them to take more than 12 hours to issue a initial claim responsibility for a major international act of terrorist. it is rare. that does not mean it will never happen. >> we'll talk to two recent episodes, february over somali and air bus 321 had a devastating explosion and tore a hole on the side of the aircraft. one individual was sucked out to his death and investigators determined that so many with a

laptop and explosives in the laptop and planted that bomb and last halloween when -- isis claimed responsibility for that and allegedly attacking the soda can. if this is a terrorist attack, this is the third incident. >> we keep on hearing you about this of a kind of barrel role to the other side. does that radar track exists some where in just a matter of us not seeing it yet? >> you know as you and i learned during the coverage of flight 370, there is a civilian radar world and military radar world. military radar is far more detailed. will they release those tapes? i don't know. on the civilian radar imagery,

we have access to that we have not seen that. >> tom, one more thing for the traveling public which as o f yesterday included me coming back from a trip to europe with my wife and that is what you said about this aircraft, the work force comes to mind, these are absolutely known for their sturdiness and how many take offs and landing they can withstand. >> this came off the lot in 2003. it only had 48,000 flight hours. it describes to me as a teenager. in it of a young plane and if it is maintained well and it was probably was. egyptair very often has some of their maintenance still in france, then you got to believe that it was maintained well.

>> also, brian, you and i talked over the years, air bus took a different attack and how it went about building planes. it did not want a plane that had to be flown by a pilot's pilot. they want a plane that could be flown for anybody. we are not building the guy who gets out of the air force and fullyi flying planes. we want those pilots in the middle east and latin america to be able to fly this plane even if they are not proficient of flying it . >> tom costello who covers aviation for us. thanks, we have an embarrassment of expert guest today with us and our next two are greg fite, a 20 year veteran of the ntsb, a man we always call upon during

times like this and stories like this and christopher dickie, a veteran american board oversees journalist. gentlemen, thank you for being with us. greg, lets start with today's report. they are losing daylight there today but what we have gained are these reports. sketchy at best. sadly, floating human remains perhaps, what's left of the 66 souls on the board, floating pieces of aircraft debris and much of it designed to float and remember all the instructions were given about hugging our seat bottom because it is a flotation device and a slick. busy water, a slick could be anything. it could have come off commercial vessel but it could also be jet a which has about the consistency of carosene.

two things. brian, it starts to confirm where they found the area where the search to be concentrated. yesterday, there were a lot of premature information and they found debris and associated the airplane to retract it later on. now, it looks like this is debris from the missing aircraft and now they can concentrate all of those assets that's involved in those search. of course, the main debris field where they can recoffver the re of the vicks and get ting in th technical aspect of this investigation. >> greg, lets assume that with unman vehicles we can go down to the surface of the mediterranean and we are talking about a vast piece of real estate that needs to be mapped and the search

needs to be done in a methodical way. >> how does the wreckage look differently than the wreckage of the aircraft that's been blown to bits by a bomb. >> one of the things they'll be looking at and if you remember back to metro jet from last year, there was a wide debris pattern, the tail had been separated and we had that picture of that blue tail well separated and relatively intact, the burn out wreckage of the main wing. investigators are going to want to map that debris field to see how wide or expansive that debris field is. if the airplane had experienced some sort of explosion and started to come apart in flight, that'll be apart of one of the first tail sight and the

vertical speed impact, the wreckage will remain concentrated in one area. those are the kinds of things and once they start to recover the wreckage is looking for physical evidence of how the aircraft came apart and what cause for it to come apart. >> how we know the north korean have blown off another missile. there is technology allows satellite to see a lack of a better term is a flash. they can see if something is sent skyward. they were terrifically helpful in the last war of israel to see what was in coming. that coupled with the fact that this is a busy water way, the skies are busy. that would give you a lot of witnesses, does that argue to you that this was a terrorism and does not not matter to the

investigation? >> you know, you bring up a couple of interesting points, brian. the fact that there is so much radar coverage and not only by egypt but by greece and all the military assets that are there and thomas talked about it in previous pieces that's taken in the area. why does it take so long for us to pinpoint where the plane went down. well thought that government were afraid to giveaway secrets about monitoring and what we could see from satellites and that kind of thing. whether it is national security or pride or whatever, i don't know if we have all the information that's been utilized in this right now. the fact that is we should have been able to find this airplane a lot shoooner. greg, please standby with us. we are going to take a break. we are fortunate to have chris

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nbcuniversal's coverage of the rio olympic games. call or go online today to switch to x1. we are back in new york, we are living in a political season, that's in kentucky. donald trump is going to give a speech there that'll give a lot of media attention, the sponsoring group and the subject matter for some of it. we'll keep an eye on that and we'll go to it live when it

begins and much of it may take place next hour during the shift of thomas roberts. the investigation of the egyptair flight 804. i mentioned chris dickie is with us, long time news week washington post journalist and editor of the daily beast. i am sure he's wishing to be in paris to get on the end of that envision story. you have been on the air for the last 24 hours. what is it that you want to see to americans and the eyes of everyone?

>> if it is a terrorist attack, it is not entirely successful in the sense of the plane was relatively small target for some o f the terrible terrorist organizations that exist right now. i think you would be safe flying back and i would be safe going to france. i think people should live their normal lives. i think that's what is happening in france right now. things are going on pretty much as normal there. >> if this is terrorism and we cannot say this often enough, we have to say it every minute and hour. if people are tuning in, we are no closer to knowing what brought this jet down. today's development of possible human remains of the 66 souls on board and looks like floatable items of wreckage and that thus far is all we know.

chris, if this turns out to terrorism, remind folks that this would have to either initiated in paris or happened in the skies over the med, remind people what it is about paris and france. >> well, france, first of all, has the largest muslims population in europe, something of the order of 6 million. french law prohibits to ask people of their religious and affiliations. there is a lot of concerns of a large part of that population is radicalize. i don't mean 20% or 10% but maybe 5% is radicalized for recent years partly because people don't have opportunities and partly because it is really aggressive propaganda campaign. >> many have gone to fight in syria and some have come back and we have terrible incidents

in france. in january of last year and november of last year and then a related incident in brussels a few week ags ago. europe is on edge because europe is being targeted by the al-qaeda and the islamic state. we look for what we are going to do nenxt. there is a big question, of course, is this what they did. edmond coleman said that's unusual for isis. i think these terrorist groups waiting for the big moment where they can get a big impact. they would have photograph of

what they claim. all of that we are waiting to see what happens. there is another possibility, there is another possibility and that's al-qaida, the arabian peninsula and they are the boast bomb maker. >> chris dickie is here with us in our nbc news room, he's in new york. those viewers who were watching the night of the terrorist attack in paris, remember that among the first people to be able to give us reporting and analysis is christopher dickie and the other one is laura, laura is available to us once again from paris and laura because i know you have a good incredible sources and wiring that run very deep in french society, what can you share with us about your reporting in the last 24 hours. >> reporter: what i can tell you

brian, investigators at this moment are looking -- i apologize for our viewers that want to see if on the part of this of which kind of explosive it would be. that's a very important at this hour for investigators. the other thing is looking at -- they are looking at charles de gaulle airport and they're also looking at people and looking at people in the area because the plane made a stop there and went to tunis and came to paris. what is interesting is when you

speak to people walking around the airport, the union don't have any more money to pay for more security guards. they have the maximum since six months. they'll try to do what they can. they have 9,000 cameras at the airport and contractors while working. you spoke to the investigators, they're also telling you that they are expecting at this moment full coverage with the egyptians. . >> laura, i am not being argue m argumentative at all when i say all the cameras in the world cannot fully secure the place and really to christopher's point that it is so important to

the terrorist world these days. >> reporter: yes, absolutely and what was striking when i spoke to some people today, we had some clearance problems. we had to remove 84 people who were walking and taking care of their luggage and we were inside the airport and behind the scene. they did some investigation and 84 people walking in the past six months -- again, this is a huge problem to see or if the airport can be protected. again, you have a lot of problem. at this moment, in paris, there are demonstrations day after day against the police people and you have police asking for more money and you have the fall out

that's really unhappy. if it is confirmed that it is a terrorist attack, this is of course a huge story for france and of course, for all over the world. >> adding to the strange atmosphere, the beautiful day behind you on the foreground, another beautiful day until paris, but, here we are again talking about the nation of france featuring terrorism. laura hymm, with canal blue, thank you very much for being was. >> greg fife remains with us. i heard an investigator last night and i want to ask you the same question, when you go into this, there are so much to be gathered and so much mapping to be done, you are dealing with the surface of the water which hardly keeps a crime scene intact, things are going to leave, they're going to flow and going to be carried by the

water. don't you have to as this guy put it write the story of this aircraft, start with everyone who touched it and everyone who went near it, where it was and kind of the last day in the life of this air bus a 320. >> you bring it up again, and in this new environment we are operating into investigate this event. it is not an conventional investigation. it is easy to examine the wreckage and looking for issues dealing with the flight crew. now, we are dealing with the possibility of an explosion and now you have to look and go back both, take it from a security standpoint. there is a whole investigation, who touched this and who add access to it and how could they gotten some sort of explosive device.

that's one aspect of this investigation process. you have the technical aspect who have to try and piece the airplane back together again in the sense of trying to understand how the airplane coming apart and why did the crew lose control, was it a mechanical problem or an explosive device. the debris on the service is starting to spread out and disperse. it is so critical that once we find the main wreckage, debris field on the ground or underneath the surface o f the water, we have to map that, it is the way the wreckage impacted the water and then settles and it will tell investigators whether or not we have parts and pieces missing from the main debris field and may separated in flight confirming if it is an in flight make up. >> greg fife, thank you. a lot of americans when they

think of domestic airline security, we think of harsh stories. tsa lines that are mayjor airports but what about the security business? we'll look at domestic operations on that front. another break in our live coverage of the down flight 804. soon.

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and that is keeping all the aircraft on all the passengers over this country each day safe, blake. >> reporter: brian, that's right, that's why the tsa administrator was visiting chicago here with the deal of this long tlie these long lines. his visit came on the backdrop of egyptair. what we don't know what happened, he cannot make any specific changes to screening measures. they don't have enough people right now. tsa staffings of al five year low and travelers are at a record high. hiring 800 more workers by june. >> with respect to staff, i think we need to increase staff size and tsa to meet all the demands of the growing and potential changes that we may see and we are learning more and

more of what may happen to egyptair and other aircraft. >> he says right now of what we know right now in egyptair that they're able to detect any kind of explosives going through. we do know one airport, lax, has beefed up security on its own. when it is done is it is identifying more than 150 doors to enter secure areas that could be restricted or eliminated all together. so they know what cause that egyptair plane to come down, brian. >> there maybe something else here, some airports have threatened the tsa that they'll get rid of them and go with private security contractors instead. it is true that some of the smaller airports around the country, you won't find tsa, you

will find private contractors and tsa did not like hearing that, i guess. >> reporter: you know what? common misconception of that is tsa still oversees those contract workers when they are installed at airports like that. it is not completely out of tsa's control. also, those threats have been made here at chicago with long lines we have seen, hey, we are going to take it out of tsa's control too. that's a two year process that may mayor manuel told us today. we don't have two years when we have lines like this. >> blake mccoy, thank you. >> another break for us, to give you a highways up, we are waiting for an event at an nra conference, donald trump is scheduled to speak. he's getting a lot of attention

because of the back prop and the venue and the subject matter. the downing of flight 804 and a veteran airline captain will take our questions what he knows and what he believes about this investigation. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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we are back covering the damage of down egyptair. we are happened to join by captain of 25 years. captain, i have been looking forward to talk to you as you listen to today's clues and today's findings and the reports of perhaps human remains from 66 souls on board and visible and floatables from the wreckage.

what does it tell you and what's your guess on this? >> brian, the investigation proceeding along of what i thought it would. the first thing we'll find is floating debris. that's going to give us localize area to where to search at the bottom. once we get that map, that'll give us a good indication whether the airplane suffering the line of break up. those are going to begin to give us the hard piece of evidence to figure out what happened to this airplane and what cause the strategy. right now it is all about gathering data. it is about gathering evidence and then we start to draw the conclusions. as it stands now, we know so little that we have to keep everything on the table and it could be mechanical and structural and a pilot issue and it could have been an explosive device and all of those things and others are on the table.

so as an investigator of the thing i am trying to do the most of is to keep an open mind to let the evidence lead us where it leads us. i have flown the airplane and flown it for six years, it is an excellent airplane and safe airplane, it is been in service since the mid 1980s. it is an industry workhorse. and the maintenance, the reviews that i have read indicates that it is well maintained. we got a lot of questions so what we need now is data. >> captain, there is been a discussion of last minute maneuvers of digression of this plane may have taken fallen many thousands of feet. who has, who would have what government, what military would have the most specific and last

known radar trail from this aircraft? >> well, certainly greece is going to have the longest record of it as it is flying over their space. the gyrations that are reported that the airplane went through made me question a little bit to ensure the data from that radar is in fact valid. i would like to see it verified. if they have not, let other people look at it. the original investigation was taken under way with malaysia 370, there were reports from different radar facilities of wild altitude gyrations that turned out not to be true. i am not suggesting that this information is right or wrong. what i am saying is lets verify and make sure it is correct

before we try to figure out what flight profile it would take to get the airplane to do that. commercial airliner to attempt to make 360 degrees turn at a vertical axis is highly unusual. does that mean it came apart in flight? maybe yes or maybe no, we need to validate this radar data. >> one other thing we should talk about captain, people are used to -- we are so engage d o the malaysia airline case. this is not in the jet age, this is not a remote spot on the globe. these are heavily traveled and monitored skies over heavily traveled and heavily monitored waters. >> very true. the mediterranean, people flying over it, they're on surface ships all the time. had there been a large explosion in flight. it is highly likely that someone would have reported it, the satellite would have seen it and we have not seen that brought

forward so far. the lack of that data evidence is fact of evidence of itself. we have to start to put these pieces together of what we know and what we don't know and line them up and the investigators will look carefully to put this puzzle together and draw a conclusion. >> captain john cox with us from tampa florida, always a flsh to have y-- pleasure to have with you us. michael balbosa is here with us. as a veteran in this line of work, what do you want to see next? what are the questions you would ask if you are task with this investigation? >> well, from the ground perspective, who had access to the airplane and trying to take issues off the table so if you

think that somebody got something on the plane, what's the access to the plane and what types of background do they have? what is the aviation security posture is like at charles de gaulle. and it takes us back to the february bombing in the somalia area with the plane and the laptop. could someone could have taken on with their personal items, of course, the last is is there something else that says this is not a terrorist event. it is really important as the captain said to let the evidence and the investigation lead you to where it leads you. that raises the question of why are people not taking credit for this right now. that may one of the reasons. there are reports and you cannot verify these necessarily until you see them. the twitter handles between the isis group, this is a good

thing, not necessarily claiming responsibility right now but to say this is a good thing but brian, then you go to trade craft, isis verses somalia. al qaeda took credit but it took them weeks to do it. whereas in the metrojet attack, isis claimed responsibility immediately afterwards. >> as we keep stressing to our viewers and as my questions to you indicated, none of this is factual yet and all speculation. given where it went down and given the times we're living in, we're certainly concentrating on the possibility of terrorism. michael ball boney, thank you for being with us. another break for us. we will turn our focus a bit from 804 to this other dual topic we've been talking about, that is presidential politics. chris matthews will join us in just a few moments. real is touching a ray.

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brian williams back with you from new york, what started as an update on this hour as da darkness starts to fall on the mediterranean in egypt flight 804. we are also looking at louisville, kentucky, a leadership forum of the national rifle association where it looks about a half hour ago donald trump was to begin speaking, a speech that will get more attention than most because of the venue and subject matter. chris matthews has been in the chair waiting to give us his preview and analysis. chris, as they say, what will you be listening for today? >> i'll be listening for a response to what president obama said when he was a candidate said in this wealthier sections

of san francisco said people's frustrations and anger drove them to cling to their guns and religion. this is flip side of the political world in louisville, kentucky. clearly, trump knows there are states he needs to win. west of the east coast in california and west of mississippi, and he could run the table out there. he has to pwin pennsylvania, wisconsin, the upper mid-states. i think he will go for the gun issue. i've watched this all my life, you run against guns in pennsylvania you lose. he's running for guns. this is a big salient to reach the states he needs to win the general election. all politics local once again. >> what's his believability on the topic because he is new to politics and dearare i say ther was the new york subject value. >> everything about his is

instinct. look at him on foreign policy, what he said yesterday, the dawn broke and he said it was terrorism. he's either right or wrong. i think it's a low risk down side. i think he's probably right and don't know based on the report you have. if he's right, he'll look like he's the first one at the gate. that will help him. on immigration, you can say whoever you want to the rig rightness or immorality of the muslim ban, said i'm the nationalist looking out for the country, i'm the cowboy and the cowboy spirit is what he will be addressing today. >> while chris has been talk, sharp eye'd viewers have noticed the lights have come down in the hall in lawful and being shown a short film so far featured benghazi. donald trump one of several speakers. he will follow remarks by wayne lapierre of the nra. quick question about the

democrats. how do they play the issue of guns, an issue we saw the split. and we saw it in great relief when hillary clinton called out bernie sanders what seems like ages ago on the campaign for his voting record representing the rural state of vermont. >> vermont is mixed between the people who grew up there as yankees and what they call flat landers who moved there from new york and other places. clearly, it's a gun state. states lie kentucky and pennsylvania where they're very sensitive. progressives have to come to grips with the fact the inconvenient truth the right to bear arms is right there after the freedom of speech of religion and press and freedom from search and having to testify against yourself. it's benched in there and real. you say you're going to take away people's guns or talk about it or seem like that, you're in

big trouble. even the careful people like pat toomey and joe manchin are exquisite saying we will have something on the gun shows or something on gun safety but never hear that word gun control or certainly nothing like confiscation or resstration. you have to tiptoe up to that issue and even then you're in dire trouble with the gun folks. i'm looking what trump is doing today, going right to the base he needs to inspire to win next november. i tell you, he's got a shot at pennsylvania and michigan and wisconsin and ohio. if he wins all them, he wins. >> while you've been talking again, this very powerful video in the nra warm-up film inside the hall, how much power, how much clout will they have in this election? >> well, we often speak about one issue voters when it comes to abortion rights, opposition to abortion rights, one issue voter. no one is more of a one issue voter than a gun owner, about

not sportsmanship people like to say, more about a sense of self-reliance to the point of the black helicopter joke the liberals like to talk about, people are afraid the government will come and take their guns away from them. it's real! it's gut, gets at the heart of some people, mostly in rural areas, there's a lot of gun owners in places like philadelphia where i grew up, they're right in the city and load their own bullets like my uncle bill used to do, they love this stuff, in hunting clubs and sports clubs, may be great environme environments, my brotherist one -- brother is one of these. the motion is you have to be willing to protect yourself from your own government at some point. i don't believe that but they do. >> why has there been this split between members of the news media who so often are mystified to laerb ofearn of a gun cult i

america outside new york, washington and l.a.? >> because you're answering your own question. because of geography, brian, like stock car racing and abortion rights. we assume in the big cities there's a cosmopolitan attitude we all share. i'm sure there are quietly among the multitude of people we work with and know socially who have different views. there is sort of a language spoken in the media pro-choice, anti-gun rights, the usual sophistication we're used to. it's not representative of the country. i think this is a cowboy country in spirit, self-reliance, drive your own car, people don't like mass transportation. drive around in their own car with their wife or husband or girlfriend and like to be on the road and that self-reliance of that gun. i don't have that instinct. i know it's out there and very much a part of our history. it just is. it's in the constitution and in our history. we are uniquely pro gun as a country, not like theap