than anyone in washington saw coming. but the all-clear has been sounded at the white house. president, vice president, president's family were never in any danger. one shot fired, one suspect now hospitalized. and now with "meet the press daily" on this friday afternoon, chuck todd in washington. chuck? >> if it's friday, it's wrapping up donald trump's big week to try to appease the right. today it's the nra. earlier this week, it was the supreme court. democrats want to paint him as risky, but more and more, at least for republicans, they're coming home to the presumptive nominee. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening and welcome to "mtp daily." i'm chuck todd here in washington. kind of a busy sort of breaking

news day. we're going to touch on those. but there's a lot of politics going on. first some updates. the lockdown at the white house has been lifted after secret service, an agent, had to shoot a man who approached a white house checkpoint with a gun. this happened near 17th and e streets a few hours ago. it's unclear the man's motivation. police say the gun was visible, he repeatedly ignored calls to stop and drop the gun, so he was shot. the suspect is identified only as a white male in his early 30s. he was taken to a nearby hospital with a gunshot wound to the chest. president obama was not inside the white house at the time. but vice president biden was. and for the other big story that we've been following internationally, we have new information right now about the downed egyptian airliner. data transmitted just before the flight went off radar indicates that there was smoke in one of the airplane's bathrooms, and it suggests that there was a possible fire on board. it's in an area that could be

potentially catastrophic to that aircraft. egypt's aviation minister says terror is more likely than technical failure. but here we are, 48 hours later, no credible claims have come through. we have full details on those developments also coming up this hour. but as you know, this show is about politics. so we're going to start there. donald trump has spent his week trying to appease conservatives, and he's somebody who knows how to tout a construction project. he's wrapping up this week by building yet another bridge to some conservatives. this one on the issue of guns. lot of conservatives are suspicious about whether he is serious about being a so-called pro-second amendment republican. he's made some notable moves this week. we talked about it on wednesday with trump trying to reach out to conservative elites, offering more finer tuned rhetoric, revealing more on his finances, talking to henry kissinger and jim baker.

but today, the setting was the big nra convention in louisville. trump has, fair to say, a complicated history on guns. in his own 2000 book called the america we deserve, trump wrote this. quote, the republicans walk the nra line and refuse even limited restrictions. i generally oppose gun control, but i support the ban on assault weapons and i also support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. he tweeted in 2012 after the newtown shootings, quote, president obama spoke for me and every american in his remarks in newtown, connecticut. but more recently, as he started running as a republican, and again today in a speech, he calls gun bans, quote, a total failure. he's now come out against an expansion of background checks. he said that a concealed carry permit in one state should be good in all 50 states, and he wants to eliminate gun-free zones in schools and on military bases. today, trump was full-throated after getting the nra's official

endorsement. >> crooked hillary clinton is the most anti-gun, anti-second amendment candidate ever to run for office. and as i said before, she wants to abolish the second amendment. she wants to take your guns away. gun-free zones, we're getting rid of gun-free zones, i can tell you that. the only way to save our second amendment is to vote for a person that you all know, named donald trump. okay? i will tell you. i will never let you down. i will protect our second amendment. >> there's a little pattern we've noted here. when trump is nervous about winning over a key constituency group, he'll read from prepared remarks, like he did there. >> now with guns, just like abortion and taxes, the gop is willing to overlook his old positions now that he's marching with them. attending the meeting today, trey gowdy, who is best known as

chairman of the house select committee on benghazi. marco rubio and gowdy have had choice words for each other. many hoped gowdy's investigation would stand in the way of hillary clinton's white house bid. l but lately, there's a lot more quiet than noise on that front. katy tur on the scene in louisville. donald trump say convert to the nra. how do nra members feel about that? do they think -- do they believe him? >> reporter: you know, it's a mixed reception for donald trump here in the room where he spoke. he got wild applause at times. he got applause when the nra officially endorsed him. he got applause when he talked about ending gun-free zones period, not just in schools. and he got a lot of applause when he was talking about hillary clinton. a lot of gun owners still bring

up his support for an assault weapons ban in 2000. they don't entirely trust him. the thing is, they believe he's their only option right now. he's the best option they have right now against hillary clinton. what i gathered here today from the nra especially, it was less about trump and more about never hillary. never let her get into office and never let her pick potentially anti-gun supreme court justices. and that was what was fueling, from what we could gather, the endorsement of donald trump more so than maybe donald trump's positions himself. remember, donald trump has not been a politician. he hasn't voted on any of these issues. he doesn't have a record. and what the nra trusts most is a record. >> katy, i'm also and i made this observation earlier, you're with him all the time. there's a handful of times he's read from prepared remarks or a teleprompter. in each instance, it's because it's been on an issue or dealing with a constituency group that he desperately needed backing

him. >> reporter: yeah, he read from a teleprompter at a pack a couple months ago when he was addressing that constituency. he also read from a teleprompter, when he was giving his foreign policy address. there are rare moments where he looks down and reads from moments or a teleprompter. this was un wione of them. it's a constituency he knows he needs to lock down going into the general election before he starts to widen the republican tent. >> if you look at pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, the states he's trying to put in play, one thing they have in common, they're usually considered pro-gun states. it will be interesting. he desperately needs them. just a few minutes ago, i spoke to south carolina congressman trey gowdy. he's since spoken to the nra convention after trump. but i interviewed him before his speech and started by asking he trusted trump's recent about-face on the issue of guns.

>> better late than never. i really do not know mr. trump's previous views on the second amendment. so i heard a little bit of what he said today. i think people are more interested in where you are now, than where you've been in the past. although it's fair to ask about that journey, what informed and instructed that journey, but i'll let mr. trump speak for himself on the second amendment, the fifth amendment, the sixth amendment and all the rest of them. >> i'm sure you've seen the prospective supreme court nominee list. what did you make of the list and is it enough for you to endorse his candidacy? >> well, i've always said i was going to support the nominee. i was in the federal system for six years, and the judges that were well respected when i was in the federal system, i didn't see those names on the list. paul climet is a brilliant jurorist and would make a great

supreme court justice. i didn't see his name on the list. but i'm also not going to be the president. so it doesn't matter who would be on my list. my guess is paul clement would wind up being on any republican's list for the supreme court. >> you have been -- you said you're going to support the republican nominee. obviously that's donald trump, but you haven't been enthusiastic about it. you keep saying, i'm going to support the nominee. are you comfortable saying, i endorse donald trump whole heartedly? >> i'm not sure what the difference is, but if it makes you feel better, i'm happy to say, i endorse donald trump. i was a rubio guy. and if marco had won, i would have expected the cruz supporters and the kasich supporters and the trump supporters to support my guy. so my guy lost. and when the jury speaks, i'm going to respect the injujury. i'm going to support the

republican nominee who is very likely to be donald trump. >> what was your hesitancy? >> i actually didn't think i was that hesitant. i was a rubio guy, but marco lost. and i will enthusiastically support the republican nominee. >> let me ask you about where things stand with the benghazi investigation. you told me, you were going to get this done by the end of the last calendar year. that's not going to be the case. we're now hearing that maybe your report will come out during the conventions. maybe your report coming out close to the election. every day your report doesn't come out, the more political it looks, no? >> well, whoever told you that chuck, don't believe anything else they tell you, if they told you it's going to come out before the election. you're right, i wanted it to come out in 2015. i had a conversation with john kerry's chief of staff in 2015 where i told him i wanted it to

be finished this year, but i told him why. there were personal and professional reasons i wanted it done in 2015. but i can't stop an investigation because an executive branch agency won't give me documents. and we're still owed documents. so we're going to get the report out, it will be in the next month and then i'll just let the reader know, this is what we're missing, these are the agencies that haven't produced it to us. and if witnesses come forward after the publication of our report, we'll let the readers know that. but no, i absolutely wanted it done in 2015. but i don't control access to the documents or the witnesses. and with all candor, i've not heard a single person at the state department or the dod or the cia ask, why are you dragging your feet? >> let me ask you. do you feel like you owe it to all voters to put out, even if it's a report that you just described, well, this is everything we have, this is what information i didn't have. do you feel like you owe it to voters to do it before the

conventions, plural? >> yes. i would love to have done it in 2015. i would have love to have done it in the summer of 2015. but, yes, it will be before the conventions. >> okay, that is definitive. have you learned anything yet that makes you convinced that something nefarious went on during this attack? or are you finding more policy disagreements or hindsight decisions that maybe could have been made and next time will be? >> well, you've never heard me use the word nefarious. what i have found is an incredible amount of courage on behalf of ds agents and those that were at the annex that night. i have a renewed respect for chris stevens and shaun smith, irrespective of their politics, that serve this country. benghazi still falls into three categories. why were we there and whether or not the facility was

sufficiently secured, what happened during the attacks, and whether or not the american people were leveled with in the aftermath. there's going to be new information and i'm not only going to lay out a report, chuck, i'm going to give you the transcripts. you're going to look at the exhibits. so you don't have to take my word for it. i don't want you to take my word for it. i want you to read it for yourself and you can draw whatever conclusions you want to draw. >> let's go to the topic you're going to be speaking on, the second amendment. why shouldn't there be a longer waiting period on a background check? what is the harm with having seven to ten days to do a background check for somebody to own a piece of machinery, that when used properly could destroy and kill somebody? >> what's the harm in doing that background check in 24 hours? why can we not do that background check sooner? >> so far, we haven't been able

to. >> well, let's fix that. let's don't add length of time to somebody's ability to exercise a constitutional right. let's fix the fact that it takes that long to do a background check. i was a gun prosecutor. i put people in jail who were convicted felons, or who had been adjudicated, mentally ill. i refuse to accept that it takes two weeks to say whether or not somebody has a qualifying conviction, or whether or not they've been court-martialed. >> you just don't think that extra time, sometimes when it comes with, if somebody wants to purchase a weapon in the spur of the moment, the heat of the moment, they're angry, some people believe that extra length of time might calm things down. >> sure, or they may just go byr buy one from somebody on the street, or they may break into a house. if somebody wants to kill you,

they'll find a way to do whether there's a background check or not. so my question to folks who want to enlarge that period, there's not a background check on other parts of your constitutional rights that i'm aware of. so i'm call for title 18 922 g, certain people cannot possess firearms and i don't want them to. but if you look at it, it's anemic under this administration. so before you ask for new laws to enforce, why don't you enforce the ones you actually have. >> what do you think of new technology that would allow a gun to only be operated by its owner? >> i would love it. i would probably put it on my guns, but i wouldn't make you put it on yours. >> why shouldn't there be something that's mandatory?

what's the down side to that, in your opinion? >> i'm sure i can come up with a fact pattern, where it's your gun and someone that's come in and it hasn't been approved for technology for my use. you're applying a different standard to the second amendment than for the first. there's no background check for you to have a blog or radio show. there's no background check for you to say something that you know to be untrue. so i'm interested in the constitutional analysis and i'm really interested in how well are we doing enforcing the current laws that we have. if you look at the numbers and i have them with me from the department of justice, we are doing a pathetic job. so it's impossible to tell the people here, give us another law to not enforce, because we're doing so poorly with the ones we

already have. would you support more resources, more manpower at both atf and the justice department to just prosecute, to just enforce the laws that are on the books? >> 100%, already have. i was one of the republicans that voted for more money for background checks, for a quicker ncic. i don't want anyone who is not legally entitled to possess a firearm to possess one. and i spent six years enforcing that. if they need more prosecutors, but for me to give them more gun prosecutors and them to go do more, you know, talks in schools about bullying, you gotta do it for the thing that we give you the money for. so if loretta lynch comes and says i'm gonna be serious about 924-es and cs, then i would be here lead cheerleader. >> thanks for coming on, sir.

>> yes, sir, thank you. >> as you can see, a lot there, the benghazi report, repeat that news there, definitively. trey gowdy says it will be out before the conventions. coming up, the latest on egyptair flight 804. searchers work to zero in on the flight data recorders. already some new data that gives clues into what happened in the moments before the plane went down. stay with us. we'll dig into it.

>> early this week on this show, steve kornacki talked to mark cuban, great owner, billionaire owner of the dallas mavericks, about whether or not he'd be interested in running against donald trump and why he decided not to do it. at the time, he told steve it wasn't feasible. so today, i talked with mark cuban about a different way of taking on trump on the ballot in november. check this out. you joke that you would love to be clinton's running mate, as long as you were allowed to throw bombs at trump. if she really did come to you,

would you listen? >> absolutely. but the key would be that she'd have to go more to center. i think i like the fact that senator clinton has thought-out proposals. that's a good thing, because we get to see exactly where she stands. but i think senator sanders has dragged her too far to the left. things like college tuition and other business elements that really i think could hurt the economy. if she's willing to listen, if she's willing to hear other sides of things, then i'm wide open to discussing it. >> we have a lot more of this interview coming up on sunday on "meet the press." my lead guest on sunday is hillary clinton. lot more of "mtp daily" comes up right after this.

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a new report shows automated data messages that get transmitted from the airbus 320, shortly before it lost its signal, show there was smoke detected in the lavatory, and that fault readings in two flit control units, one of which is in the cockpit. messages ended right after these incidents with no sign of a mayday call. fire in this area could shed some light of what happened on board. satellite images show a possible oil slick and could be an indicator in the search for the fuselage. after confusion for the source of debris in yesterday's search, egypt's military have confirmed they've found wreckage about 180 miles north of alexandria. greek officials said luggage and human remains were among the findings. though egypt's defense ministry did not confirm any of those specifics. while investigators at charles de gaulle airport are combing that airport, no claims have

emerged from terror groups at this time. we're more than 48 hours now. investigators are also considering the other stops the plane made before arriving in paris. this airbus 320 had traveled to eritrea, tunisia, and its home base in cairo, all vulnerable points from a security vantage point. i'm joined from cairo with the latest on the investigation. it's dark now, i assume there's no more search and recovery taking place in the sea. what have we learned today and what do they hope to find tomorrow? >> yeah, chuck, we've taken that data information and posed it to egyptair officials. they so far have not commented on it. been very tight-lipped, partly because they're still waiting for more information to come from the egyptian military. as you mentioned, it's the egyptian military that is leading this investigation, at least out at sea, trying to gather that information. as you mentioned, it is night-time here, so the second day of search and recovery has

probably been called off. we'll expect them to resume as soon as it's day break here. and over the coast of the mediterranean, they did find what they're describing as personal belongings and wreckage. that is the most definitive confirmation that we know today to date that it is part of the plane. more importantly, we know that french investigators have also arrived in cairo, as well as representatives from airbus, to analyze the information that you mentioned and the pieces that they're beginning to collect at sea. chuck? >> ayman, thank you very much. and still many questions surrounding around the technical versus terror possibilities. malcolm nance joins me now. yesterday on the show you walked through a theory that other security officials had, the idea that the bomb may have been placed on earlier in the flight, before paris and then the potential suspect gets married

to the device and is able to launch it. now hearing more detail about this smoke that was found in the lavatory, does that confirm your finding, confirm your theory, your hypothesis, or do you now say maybe it was mechanical? >> well, to be honest, it could still be either way. again, we're all speaking in speculation. but i've just looked at your timeline in great detail. and the first thing that jumps out at me, as somebody who's done this for a very long time, and the incident of mutual ab, the underwear bomber. he was going to the united states on a valid tourist visa and tried to detonate a device by staying in the bathroom for 30 minutes and lighting a fuse. when he didn't do that, he went back to his seat and was trying to set fire in there. this could explain why you had a smoke alarm going off in the

rest room. then if there was an explosion or a chain of reactions, it progresses to all the systems faults into the cockpit, then loss of all power. so it does lend some credence, but it could be mechanical, we will not know until the evidence is fished out of the sea. >> we still don't have a manifest, or at least a public manifest. they obviously have a manifest. they've released some of the names of the crew. but obviously finding -- doing background checks on all of these people could tell us a lot too. what's your understanding of how far along they've gotten? >> i've actually seen a photograph of the list of all the egyptian nationals who were on the aircraft. we know now some of the french nationals and others who were on the aircraft. that scrub would have been cursory. and even though the intelligence agencies and the aviation agencies would have those names, nothing says that those names are validly matched to a person who could have been a terrorist on board the aircraft.

and that would have been just proper trade craft for terrorist groups smuggling a bomb on there. but the easiest thing they would have done was to get someone whose sympathies changed over time and who would never have been involved in terrorism activities before, what we call a clean-skin agent. so it's possible that no matter who we find on that list, we could have a suspect on board who could have performed a nefarious act without ever having a background in this. >> and if this was a terrorist act, you would think there would be somebody taking credit. >> you would think that. and that's because we're used to, in this hypermedia environment today, to want to get answers right away. and these terrorist groups want to get their information out right away. however, there may have been agents or assets in place that facilitated the placement of a device and they may want to extract those people, get them

away, get the support chain that may have helped that person and then make the claim. in somalia, it took 14 days after the laptop bombing two months ago for al shabaab to make a claim. as long as they raise the specter of fear and terror and we keep sitting on this story, they have no reason to actually take claim. >> an interesting point that some other journalists have been making today. malcolm nance, terrorism analyst for us at nbc news, thanks so much. >> my pleasure. coming up, a look into exactly how close the numbers really are in the democratic race for president. plus, bill wells, remember him, he steps on the hot rails of a third-party option. i'm going to talk with the former massachusetts republican governor about why he's joined the -- why he wants to join the libertarian party presidential ticket. ike finding new ways to be taken care of. home, car, life insurance obviously, ohhh...

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well, the democratic race isn't as close as you might think it is. it certainly isn't as close as bernie sanders is making it seem. here's what he told a crowd in california this week. >> as of today, we have won over nine million votes. [ cheers and applause ] and almost 46% of all of the pledged delegates, the real delegates that were voted on by the people. >> it's not that any of what sanders is saying is wrong, he's just not telling the whole story. hillary clinton is winning by every single metric there is. she's won more states, 24-20. she's ahead by more than 3 million in the popular vote, if you want to count those. she's winning among pledged delegates and super delegates and overall delegates. but sanders is, in some ways winning the perception primary,

because he's won more tuesdays. there have been 20 days so far this year with democratic contests. on nine of those days, sanders won more contests than clinton. on nine of those days clinton won more contests than sanders. and on two of those days, they spla split the contests evenly. this week, she won kentucky, while he won oregon. so they're tied on the number of election days that were good days for each of them. but again, that doesn't tell the whole story. because those days are not equal. on the nine tuesdays, essentially some were saturdays, but in the nine that sanders won more than clinton, we won 383 delegates. on the days when clinton won, she won 1,362 delegates. another reason it could seem that he's winning bigger,

clinton's wins that put this contest out of reach for sanders way back in march, they were early poll closing calls on dates with multiple primaries. so they didn't get as much attention at the time. so despite how it may seem, and despite how sanders is trying to make it seem, that it's sort of a ping-pong deal, it's not that close, certainly not as close it was in 2008 between senators barack obama and hillary clinton. >> i went all the way to the end against then senator obama. i won 9 out of the last 12 contests. back in '08, i won indiana, kentucky, west virginia. so i know the intense feelings that arise, particularly among your supporters as you go toward the end. you know what, it was really close, much closer than it is between me and senator sanders right now. >> back then, after the primary season ended, obama led clinton by about 120 delegates.

clinton's current over sanders is more than twice that amount, making this the second closest democratic contest since 1980. and what's more, obama and clinton largely split the democratic super delegates in 2008. on the super tuesday of the 2008 democratic race, clinton enjoyed a lead of about a thousand super -- a hundred super delegates over obama. but that began to shrink after obama held a sustained advantage in pledge delegates over time. and of course obama eventually overtook her in super delegates by the end of the primary season. by contrast, this time around, clinton is the candidate with the pledge delegate lead and her super delegate edge has widened as the contest has gone on. clinton has to win 9% of remaining delegates to reach the magic number. sanders must win 91% of the remaining dell fwaegates to hit number. since they were established in 1984 as a way to give democratic party leaders more of a say in the primary process, the super

delegates have never changed the outcome of a pledged delegate primary season. despite all that, bernie sanders is willing, apparently to take on hillary clinton in the home stretch and even hit her a little bit harder than the clinton campaign wants. so the next few weeks could be some of the more bitter exchanges in the democratic race. while hillary clinton will be my exclusive guest this sunday on "meet the press," we'll see you then. safety doesn't come in a box. it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. it's using state-of-the-art simulators to better prepare for any situation. it's giving offshore teams onshore support. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.

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little news out of oklahoma. republican governor mary fallin has vetoed a bill today that would have made performing abortions in the state. he said it was too vague and would not withstand a criminal constitutional challenge. even though she vetoed this bill, she favors a re-examination of rowe v. wade. she's among the republican office holders that is said to be on donald trump's vice presidential short list. we'll be right back. my moderate to severe chronic plaque psoriasis

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>> well, the never trump crowd is looking for someone with establishment conservative bonnaifieds. two former republican governors may be sitting under their noses. the libertarian party convention is later this month. gary johnson, former governor of new mexico is expected to be the presidential nominee. it's already making a mark on some national polls. a new fox news poll earlier this week had johnson hitting double-digits in a three-way race against trump and hillary clinton. yesterday, i spoke to the perspective libertarian vice presidential pick, another familiar name. former massachusetts republican governor bill weld. >> one-word question. why? >> i think this makes a lot of sense. i've known gary johnson for 20 years, we were governors together in the '90s. i thought he was a tremendous

fisc fiscal. so we have that in common and we're social/libertarians. we don't buy into the abortion plank of the republican platform, we don't buy into gays and lesbians living openly and peaceably, we don't buy into the round-up of 11 million people in this country without proper papers. >> why should americans be comfortable with gary johnson as commander in chief? >> gary is a force. he has climbed the highest mountain on all seven continents. i remember him being a massive iron man triathlete. he's a physical, throw himself against the ball, kind of a teddy roosevelt guy. he's a westerner, a real outdoor guy. i think that makes him calm. he draws strength from the sky almost. >> so you believe he has the temperament to be president? >> oh, yeah. and i think there's something to

be said for running a unified campaign. which is what we're going to try to do. i did that in massachusetts and it was helpful having two people. if you're riding into dodge, you don't want to ride in alone on the stage. got to have something covering your back. >> i read in "the new york times," had governor johnson on couple weeks ago. both of you are running against trump, not clinton. i know you'll say you can pull from both. but if you had more comfort in the republican nominee, would you be doing this? >> i think so. >> if kasich had been the republican nominee, would you be doing this? >> no, i wouldn't. i spoke to governor kasich yesterday and told him what i was up to and i think he's okay with it. but i don't think we'd be doing it if there weren't this feeling in the country of disquiet with the two leading candidates who are mr. trump and mrs. clinton. that's what makes us see the real political opportunity, and that's what makes me think the

game is worth it. >> what's your case for why potentially hillary clinton supporters should support the johnson-weld ticket? >> i've worked with miss clinton on the nixon impeachment when we were in our 20s. i'm personally friends with both of them. i think former president clinton has done a great job, in some ways, transcending his presidency. that being the case, the national deficit at the end of the second obama term is going to be $20 trillion. and the default position of the democratic party is to spend more than we're taking in, and we're just digging ourselves into a hole that's going to hollow out the economy, hurt job creation, and put us between a rock and a hard place in the international, economic markets. it's kind of a prescription for china as the only superpower in about ten years. >> what's your take on why trump took off? >> i think he touched a nerve. you know, as you and i were discussing earlier, he's very

comfortable in his own skin, and he can say exactly what he thinks on any issue at any time, and that's a great advantage. it's a great advantage in debate, as i know from preparing for my advantage. don't allow one second to fill a news trough between your punch and counterpunch, he's good at that. >> how are you going to get money for the race, would you put your own money into it? >> yeah, it's about that much. >> there was a report the koch brothers were going to support you. >> that was circulated -- >> wishful thinking? >> yeah. small contributors i think we might be appealing to the millenni millennials. there are funders at the top, not sheldon adelson, a number of whom, you know, i know personally are libertarian oriented. i'll be going there but not until we demonstrate prowess at

the polls. i don't want to make an ask before there's poll standing before it. >> former governor bill weld. we'll find out in a week whether you're the nominee for vice president in the libertarian party. >> thanks for having me. >> that interview took place yesterday in new york city. the panel joins me next for the lid. keep it right here. wrely on the us postal service?

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here with me bob urlich and nbc news political analyst, i'm going to throw it out there. you serve with these governors johnson and weld. by the way you're of them. you're kind -- >> i'm not of them. >> socially less moderate, fiscally conservative. you're of that. >> they're not running to win, they're running to what, get on tv, hang out with you? do their thing. i'm interested in winning and they're not. >> chris, it's interesting though this will happen on the 27th. i've got a new nbc news wall street journal poll. there was a 9%, 10% volunteer neither candidate. there is a vacuum out there for none of the above is going to fill. is it johnson weld? are they none of the above?

>> yes, because there are only so many options on the ballot. i guess you could say write in. we think on most of these -- >> they should the party can get 43 guaranteed and another -- >> yes, i think is the answer to that. i don't think we should be surprised by the 9% or 10% who volunteer neither. two candidates that are as unpopular as any general election ever? >> in an unpopular contest you don't have to be that popular to get votes. from my point of view, the thing that would be most interesting if you flipped the ticket and had governor weld at the top of the ticket. he would be a formidable challenger. >> that's interesting. >> if the math leans, which it does generically, this ticket impacts, it could -- >> what do you need -- look, 18 states 242 lelectoral votes the

democrats have won. add florida, it's over. if you're -- and this doesn't necessarily hold to trump this would have been true with cruz, kasich. but you need to be rooting for something that -- >> to shake it up. >> it's actually theoretically a more of a destabilizer. cruz it's hard for me to imagine cruz competing in wisconsin. >> the question is where that third party would destabilize. >> at what point? what is the threshold of destabilization? probably not 5%, 7%, 8%, 9%. then it starts making math interesting. >> we're taking pennsylvania, ohio, michig. we're talking allegedly purple states, but states that lean in off years and are purely blue in on years. >> it's hard for me to see trump getting 51% of the vote in pennsylvania. >> what if the winning number is

47%. >> 46% -- >> i know pennsylvania. >> right at 47% is a winning number. >> the margin comes for him the better. you know his -- they both have hard ceilings. i think his ceiling is harder and lower than hers. >> it's odd we're talking about the fact a libertarian ticket made up of two former republican governors will take away votes from the democratic nominee, ruth? >> i don't think, actually -- i think maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves. i don't think we are -- welcome to "meet the press." >> oh. welcome to "the washington post," op-ed section. >> man. >> and time's up! >> but we don't know where those -- you know, are they begoing to get the votes, where they're coming from how this will develop. we know what chris said this is an unpopular set of candidates.

>> speaking of the other piece of news we had mark cuban, he would take the call from hillary clinton on this. but do you think she has guts -- is she willing to take that risk? >> no. >> he's a risk. >> no, i don't think she is. the one defining trait of her as a presidential candidate, both in '08 and 2016 is too much caution. this is -- i think they viewed as you block and tackle and you win. you started 242. >> by the way, seven times out of ten that's probably true. >> if you need to throw the wild card in there, that's the trump argument. i'll say one quick thing on cuban. i think he's running for something down the line. >> worst moments from shark tank and run them as a click. >> it hasn't hurt trump. >> cuban -- >> but how could it be worse than what they've run against trump? that's the thing -- >> listen -- >> that defuses that situation. she wants -- chris is right.

she's a cautious candidate. she wants somebody she can govern with. >> would it -- >> she's not thinking about who does she want in the west wing coming in and out of her office. >> she's been there. >> the establishment is not cool today. >> former governor -- >> cool to me. >> we're establishment. >> all right. ruth bob and chris go get a steak at ruth chris. we'll be back monday. tune in sunday. with all due respect starts right now. i'm mark halperin. >> with all due respect. >> to willie geist. nicole wallace. and especially donny deutsch. i'm back.