she's a cautious candidate. she wants somebody she can govern with. >> would it -- >> she's not thinking about who does she want in the west wing coming in and out of her office. >> she's been there. >> the establishment is not cool today. >> former governor -- >> cool to me. >> we're establishment. >> all right. ruth bob and chris go get a steak at ruth chris. we'll be back monday. tune in sunday. with all due respect starts right now. i'm mark halperin. >> with all due respect. >> to willie geist. nicole wallace. and especially donny deutsch. i'm back.

here we go. happy friday sports fans, as they say across the pond, happy friday sports fans oh, and cheerio and pip pip. we start our show with british flavor because of what donald trump said about david cameron during a classic trump phoner on "morning joe." in the spirit of sump truch tru phoners we brought along our phone booth in case he calls. on a day that's been consumed mostly by egyptair. not a lot of political news is breaking through. what donald trump said about the prime minister would be big news but they have not been the best of friend. cameron has called trump's proposal for a temporary ban on muslim. devisive stupid and wrong. and trump fired back this week telling gmb, that is, the

british version of gma he is not a devisive person and that i'm not stupid. okay? which makes trump's statement about pm cameron this morning, rather interesting. >> he came after me a little bit. by the way he would like me now to visit 10 downing street. they put out that invitation about two days ago. i'll do just fine with david cameron. i think he's a nice guy. i'll do just fine. but they've asked me to visit 10 downing street. i might do it. >> they put out that statement two days ago according to trump. the prime minister's office at 10 downing street responded this afternoon saying it is long-standing practice for the leader to meet with political nominees. there are no confirmed dates end quote for this meeting. mark, my question to you is, let's just sort of -- there's room for interpretation here. what trump seems to have said was not clearly right or true.

is he courting much danger you think by playing fast and loose with the facts? >> the clinton campaign thinks so. john padesta, the chairman of the campaign put out a statement pounding on the notion of not being able to trust him. i think we have both talked for a long time about the notion of trump benefitting during the nomination fight when there is national incidents. if there are, i think there could come time in the debates in the fall where trump says something is wrong and national security could be a problem. in the short term i don't think it is. people who think insulting in some ways the british prime minister is going to be a problem for him with electorate, i just don't think that's the case. >> it may or may not be. i don't think it's a good idea for political candidates to lie or to play fast and loose with the facts. we would like to think our presidents -- >> they should be held accountable when they do. >> no question about that. i also think that at some point, and again, i don't know when that will be -- if world

opinion, world leaders around this great globe of ours have -- start to express a consensus that donald trump is unfit for office, i don't know how it will play with every single voter in america. it's not good. it's not what you want if you have chance of being the president of the united states. >> let me tell something to the british people. i happen to know if you think trump's going to win your leaders will start sucking up to him. the brits do that. >> they do. the british can sometimes -- there's a british word for that it's ungtious. >> if it looks like las like he going to win in the fall cameron will be his best friend. [ phone ringing ] >> the operator says the donald wants to say something. >> he knows nothing about me. he knows nothing about what i said. i'm not a big fan of his. take a look at two things look add where our country is where years of him being involved. we are a mess.

number one. i know he has great repstatiuta and all of that. all these guys have been doing this for 15 years look where our country is. we need a new group with better thinking. >> thanks for that, mr. trump. appreciate the phone call. a sharp response to secretary gates' criticism yesterday of trump when he expressed concerns regarding the republican presumptive nominee's unpredictable foreign policy. mark, does this put an end, my end, to your oft expressed and i always thought lunatic fantasy that mr. gates could end up being donald trump's running mate? >> pretty much. i have been surprised by gates. he was critical of trump and hillary clinton. there's a chance trump will pick someone he insults. the thing is too close. there's not enough time to patch it up. and trump said today, in a

dismissive way he didn't care about gates' credentials. he's been part of the foreign policy establishment that ruined foreign policy. probably i was wrong that that was possible. i will say this, i still think someone like gates is trump's best bet to pick a running mate. >> trump was feisty this morning on the phone. i don't understand why he picked that fight. gates was not spoiling for a fight with trump. trump with off the handle. part of the reason you had your fantasy is because you were among some reporters including me and others who were told by people in trump's orbit that gates might be a good pick. that points to dissension in trump world. if they were trying to lead trump towards gates, trump slapped back not just gates but some of his own aides. >> i don't waste my time doing veep reporting in my career. some people say he's leaning to someone that's not a safe solid pick wow that's a guy ready to

be a present. >> other would say he's looking at a reckless pick. >> i tell you one thing, that would be a big mistake. >> phone is ringing again. once again donald trump is rying to reach us. the operator says he's got some more thoughts on egyptair flight 804 and the next with the u.s. national security. >> we cannot continue to let things like this happen. we are being taken advantage of by radical islamic terrorists and we are -- this world is changing. and another couple of planes go down, and you're going to have a depression world wide the likes of which you've never seen. nobody's going to travel. there will be no anything. there will be no communication between countries. you'll have a problem the likes of which you've never seen. >> thanks to the call. let's show our viewers what trump has been tweeting since early this morning. for example, he dedicated five tweets to hillary clinton including this where he said, quote, crooked hillary has zero

imagination and less stamina. isis, russia would love for her to be president. sarca sarcasm. hillary clinton looks presidential. i don't think so. four years of obama in our country. isis laughs. john is trump being what jeb bush called a chaos candidate to his detriment, or is there an actual cohesive world view that could help him in a general election? >> there may be a cohesive view he's propounding. but it's at odds with the views he actually had at the time. somebody -- people have got to start saying this, trump cannot maintain that he was always a steadfast opponent of going into iraq. there is documentary evidence he said to howard stern and others he thought we should invade iraq. libya is more egregious. he made a big deal, and claims he was against it the whole

time. if trump wants to say something he was for something before, now thinks it was a mistake to invade iraq and libya that would dee fine. you can change your mind. you can't say you were always in one place when there is evidence that proves you weren't. >> on the matter of politics and whether this will catch up and if he's got a world view that can trump hers. she is not the best person equipped to call him on this. because of voters' questions about her own reliability and consistency on issues related to national security and to economics. i believe that this could all catch up to him. i believe a lot of things he's saying are popular with voters. >> i agree. the problem is he does not have her credentials. she has issues on foreign policy for sure. being part of a -- >> is this an election cycle with credentials matter? >> for the voters that will probably determine the outcome they might be in a dangerous

world. it's a case the clinton campaign is going to make. consistency actually does matter. again, we know we have to call people into account on what they said in the past versus what they're saying now. i know we've gone other time but i'll say part of the reason why the bob gates thing was a fantasy is that precisely this. he doesn't know what donald trump's world view is. there's no consistency. he doesn't know what donald trump believes and the things donald trump says he believes bob gates disagrees. >> we're hanging up now on donald trump. not in a bad way. >> just kidding. >> coming up two guests who will be here and not on the phone but in the flesh t. republican establishmentarians right after this. . republican establishmentarians right after this. . republican establishmentarians right after this. what's it like to be in good hands? like finding new ways

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romney. and live is pete wehner. he was also the deputy speech writer for george w. bush. his latest piece for commentary, is titled unity isn't a trump card. alex here, i'm going to start with you in washington. you say unity for the sake of the will of the people or the sake of unity isn't enough. what is the problem with those who are joining trump for those reasons? >> because i think at the end of the day mr. trump is disqualified from being president. unity is fine. and i understand it. most situations it applies in party politics the question is unity for what end. unity for the individual is what needs to be opposed. unity for justice needs to be supported. as far as the will of the people, look, in the self-governing country that carries the day. we understand that. but the founders themselves who are deeply worried about the passions of the public and the

will of the public is sometimes wrong, the voice of the people is not invoice of god. they've gotten it wrong before. they'll get it wrong again and they may be getting it wrong right now. so i understand the pull of the unity argument and the pull of the will of the people argument. it doesn't trump other arguments. at the end of the day, you have to make a decision what's best for the republic. >> just to be clear you're never going to be for trump or clinton you'll sit it out? >> that's right. ya employ i don't think i'm going to vote for hillary clinton. i'm a conservative she's a liberal. she stands for everything i've been for. >> where are you on trump being for him or not? >> i'm in i think -- i loved pete and i think his arguments are as always persuasive. you know? there's one argument that i might add to pete's next piece and that is that there's another

reason for unity. and that is the -- this country is an airplane headed for the mountain. a lot of people are concerned that we may reach a place from which we cannot return. and that we need someone to change direction now or there won't be a country that we can restore. so -- i think in one way, those of us in the establishment are -- have been a little disconnected from that sense of urgency that the american people feel, so it's not about unity for unity's sake. bring in the turn around ceo, save a business from bankruptcy or there won't be a business. >> alex i won't speak for pete, one of the things he makes his argumentment if you want to make a argument about trump versus clinton on the merits, the notion for party unity doesn't make any sense. here's my question. we talked about this all throughout the 2015, republican nomination fight.

you had deep concerns about donald trump's suitability for the office, about whether this guy could be entrusted with the nuclear codes. what is it that changed about trump that makes it okay with you in that office? >> something has changed about trump and the situation. i lost. my other choices didn't make it. now i have a binary choice. and that choice is to continue in the direction more of the same which i think is threatening to the country. and, you know, socialism, the extension of socialism in america i think is deadly. that's one thing that's changed. the other thing that's changed is i have seen donald trump throughout this campaign. and i've seen things that i like. i've seen the family he's raised. and that tells me something i think about the man. i think i've seen him -- i've talked to business associates. there's a loyalty in the man that i've come to appreciate.

i've seen his loyalty to voters. and his respect for voters. you know, when it's easy to throw voters under the bus because they're being politically incorrect. little people are making too much noise at the dinner party he doesn't throw the voter under the bus. do i still have concerns? absolutely i do. do they pale i think in comparison to the urgency of the situation which is something i think pete should address in his next piece. >> let me ask you to address it now. i get where you are on trump, right? abstaining not kind of a cop out? there is a binary choice. for conservatives like you or like jeb bush i'm not under a moral obligation to vote. i can't vote for clinton. how are you going to feel on election day when donald trump is sitting there in the oval office when you abstained in part allowed that to happen?

>> it's a fair question. i haven't gotten to the final decision yet. i'm saying i'm not going to vote for trump. what i'm saying i do think hillary clinton is problematic. we don't disagree on hillary clinton and her demerits, her faults, her vices. where we disagree is on mr. trump. the situation changed. i think he's wrong. i don't think donald trump has changed. there's nothing about mr. trump in terms of his attitude, pronouncements, actions that is any different than it's been before. he himself has said he's not going to change. he used the analogy of the mountain. i agree we're in trouble. i think we do need the change the direction. the problem is with the trump guiding an airplane we'll hit the mountain sooner and faster and harder than we would otherwise do it. i want to say one thing on trump. i've been in a lot of debates with people i'm in a minority in my party. the difference here, the kind of inflection point if you will on trump is the judgment about his

temperment. his sensibilities. his prudence his judgment. i think he's not only worse than hillary clinton he's in a category all he's own. he's crude, i think he's cruel. i think he has a personality disorder. he's narcissistic. and i think he is dangerous. i really believe if he were president he is erratic and would be a danger to the republic. he's a danger to the republican party. everything we've fought for is being washed away. the movement is not conservatism. i don't think that the argument is dispositive as it comes to the republican party. the country is more important. on both of those things, that is the republic and the republican party. i think donald trump is a real and present threat. >> i would add one thing, too, though. if we think the country is in a revolt now and has turned to the choices it has now, wait eight years, if we continue to go in the same direction eight years of stagnation, the world seems

to be setting itself on fire, dissolving in front of our eyes, think what the choices that america might make then. so i think there's some urgency to the moment right now. >> pete, i know you don't like trump, is there somebody he pick as his running mate that would make you feel better in case he did win? >> i haven't given it much fought because it wouldn't make me feel better. he's, obviously, going to go in his own direction and way. there are a number of people utt there that are impressive and good. at the end of the day, as you know, these decisions are almost always made by the top of the ticket. kennedy and johnson in '60 was the last one where the vice president played a difference. i'm not under any allusions that a vice president is going to mitigation the worst tendencies of donald trump. it daent matter to me. >> sounded to my ears like you might vote for hillary clinton. we won't make you say that

today. >> i'm saying no, but given where trump is going, it's possible i can be persuaded. >> thank you so much, we're going to be right back with a romney ryan policy director lonny chen right after this. so when your symptoms start... doctors recommend taking non-drowsy claritin every day of your allergy season for continuous relief. with claritin you get powerful non-drowsy relief, 24 hours a day, day after day. and with fewer symptoms to distract you... you can focus on the extraordinary things you do... every single day. live claritin clear. introducing clarispray nasal allergy spray. new from the makers of claritin© wi a different ingredient. think fixing your windshield is a big hassle? not with safelite. this family needed their windshld replaced but they're daughters heart was set on going to the zoo. so guess what, i met them at the zoo. service that fits your schedule. that's another safelite advantage. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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first block of the show. do you detect in donald trump on his various policy p pronouncements of foreign policy a conmdrum? >> that's not real helpful in terms of determining when america intervenes, where it intervenes, how it intervenes, maybe the answer he has is doesn't intervene. i think he thinks its coherent. i'm not sure if it actually is. >> hillary clinton is taking out a more aggressive gun control position than any nominee of either party ever has. do you think the politics of that has shifted so trump is making a mistake embracing the nra endorsement today? >> i don't think so. he's got a problem with conservatives, too. and so by doing what he did today, he's trying to signal to them, look you can trust me on the key issues that the conservative movement cares

about. at the end of the day, the politics of gun control are really tricky. and in the states where this election is going to be fought i'm not sure it's a bad move. >> let me ask you the question we just asked pete. now you're on team trump who would you like to see him pick as a running mate you think would make him solider and doing good politically and substantlepsy as a running mate? >> ronald reagan would be great with me. i'd be happy with that. >> not available currently. >> not available. no, newt gingrich's name out there. be comfortable with that. whom else is out there that, you know, a bunch of good republican governors. i'd be great with kasich. there's a solid republican choice, experienced on the hill. governor mary fallon. somebody who has had experience on the hill as well. good record as governing. i think there's choices out there that -- you know, the vp is not going to change -- transform the campaign. i think you're right, lonny, it

might solidify the base a little bit. but it's not going -- this is -- trump is too big to be defined by a vp. >> what do you wonder about trump right now? what are the things you wonder? >> i wonder a lot of things about trump. one thing that a lot of people have said and i think it's true is that trump transcends a normal requirements for candidates. so one of those things would be telling us what it is he might do when he's elected. he said in some level of non-detail we'll build a wall and get tough on china. he doesn't have a policy platform in the traditional way candidates have been required to have them. is he going to be able to get away with that? >> you know a lot of republican policy maevens do you know anyone? >> at this point no. in terms of formally advising, no. >> what does that mean for people like you who thought policy was an important part in

winning a nomination is being a strong candidate? >> at the end of the day presidential candidates are agenda setters. that's what they do. they are the wruones saying this what our country should care about for the next four and eight years. him not articulating a vision or a kind of specific set of policies is very dangerous for the country and the party. >> you worked for governor romney, you worked for governor romney. today eric erickson mitt romney should run. would you vote for him? >> no. >> why? >> it would elect hillary clinton which the airplane hits the mountain. that's the most dangerous thing a republican could do. when we come back a new poll, nra and a triple threat of reporters right after this. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them.

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. with us now a trifecta of our colleagues.

from bloomberg politics, coming to us from our d.c. bureau. big poll out overnight and this morning from cbs news, "new york times." on all sorts of things related to the presidential race. one number, donald trump, hillary clinton. clinton with a 47% 41% lead. national favorability numbers, trump 21% favorable with women and people have focused on that. but bill clinton's unfavorable with men -- hillary clinton's unfavorable with men 26%. not much different there each with their gender problems with the opposite gender. one more number from the poll is the candidate honest and trustworthy neither fare well. they get a third of voters saying they are honest and trustworthy. that is a content for the

matchup. start with you, and talk about hillary clinton and the matchup, where do you think she stands now? is this a toss up or does she have an advantage we assume a democrat would have? >> for now she has the advantage. the danger is what happens the next couple of weeks with bernie sanders and his supporters especially in a lot of the swing states she'll need him and his supporters in pennsylvania, ohio. the question is how does she game their trust and show them this move to the left is legitimate and not just to win the primary. >> let me ask you this question, the big story that's been playing out today has been the nra back and forth on gun control. just walk us through what you think the politics are. mark mentioned before hillary clinton further to the left on gun control than any other -- >> openly. >> openly. proudly. donald trump going down someone who was previously suspect.

lay out the politics of that. >> john, i think the contrast we're seeing between democrats and republicans in this election on gun rights is the staunchest we've seen in a generation. probably more so than when bill clinton ran at least at much as any candidate since then. clinton has run far to the left on gun control. part of this is to get ahead of bernie sanders given that guns was the one issue where she could claim stronger progressive credentials than him. donald trump has republicans have for a very long time, is campaigning in lock step with the staunch gun rights agenda, the nra agenda things like a national right to carry. we're going to see the issue play for the first time in a long time. previous nominees like john kerry, barack obama in both his campaigns barely made a peep about gun control. she's dialing up the volume. she senses things have shifted

as shootings across the country have become more regular. >> clinton was happy to take that position given where sanders is, the sanders is being perceived as being out of state. the sanders campaign was frustrated about not being ail to counter that. do you think that puts her in a good position relative to the general election, electorate to be where she is now? >> it helps her a lot with her base, minorities, and women especially. like women losing their kids to gun violence in low income communities. those are the people who care about guns and those are the people who are backing hillary clinton. so for her to come out strong on this in this primary, that's helped her a lot. i saw her in hartford, connecticut, and she just came across so human when she was talking to a mother who had lost her child at new town, a guy who was involved in a gang and got out of it. and you just seeing her talking

to people about it in a human way that has helped her a lot. >> totally agree. some of her best moments when she showed humanity where her heart is. every candidate benefits when they talk about something they believe in with passion and emotion. this is an issue i think she's as passionate as anything else really. let me ask you about judges. donald trump kind of issued a challenge to hillary clinton said she should put out her own list of judges and potential justices the way he did. that seemed to me to be shrewd politics beyond base politics. but more maybe even reaching towards the center since republicans have done pretty well talking about these issues in the past few years. >> these issues are base mobilizers. as a political matter donald trump helped himself by putting out this list. one of the doubts about him is he going to pick a conservative justice to replace justice scalia if he is president. that's one thing the conservative legal community and the republican base in general is very attune to. i've asked the hillary clinton campaign if they intend to put

out a similar list. ia the supreme court again if you were to rank issues that are going to be consequential and important. supreme court ranks as high of not only i can imagine. not because the next president will likely choose the successor to justice scalia. three justices that are sitting on the bench will be 78 years old, 80 and 83 as of election day. it's very likely that the next president could appoint several justices as many as four if they're a two term president. >> we'll talk a lot about the democratic dynamics in the next block. trump is doing these two things simultaneously about bernie sanders. he calls him craze bernie. then he says all the sanders voters are a lot of them are going to come to him. he think sanders should run as a third party candidate. which is funny if a lot of them were going to come him he wouldn't want him to stay in the race.

what's going on here? is there a method to the trump madness in terms of how he talks about bernie sanders. >> he's trying to play all the cards at once to see which one hits. all sorts of options of how sanders rolled now and in the future could help his cause. typical trump thing. maybe different metaphor is throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks. >> no matter if they contradict each other. >> you spent time with sanders. when you talk to sanders people, do you meet a lot of sanders people you think if sanders isn't the nominee they're going to think about donald trump? >> no. i think you -- every once in a while you'll find someone who is a republican in 2008 and now they like bernie sanders. as far as like, people who are sort of on the fence, maybe in like west virginia or kentucky. but i think most sanders' supporters i guess i'll vote for hillary i don't know what will happen. i'm going to write his name in.

they're just die hard liberals. trump is like -- >> the ones that want to tear the system down don't want to build a new system around donald trump. >> it's inconvenient to them. we'll take a quick break and come back. kelly o'donnell will join us. don't forget if you're watching us in washington, d.c. you can listen to us live on the radio. bloomberg 91.1 fm. lenting nasal allergy symptoms... houston: news alert... new from the makers of claritin, clarispray. ♪ welcome back. clarispray is a nasal allergy spray that contains the #1 prescribed, clinically proven ingredient. nothing is more effective at relieving your sneezing, runny nose and nasal congestion. return to the world with new clarispray. man, it's like pure power at your finger tips. like the power to earn allstate reward points,

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we're back, and we finally have kelly o'donnell dialled in. before we get to her. we have a story on bloomberg politics. while sanders seemed defined on the stump he's assuring democratic leaders he's all in for uniting the party and stopping a donald trump election. i want to ask kelly o'donnell who is at a rally in new mexico. how does bernie sanders seem? >> well, it really help as candidate to have had one down day in palm springs. down day is a term of art in campaign world about having no public events but plenty of behind the scenes conference calls and work. he did that yesterday, and today bernie sanders is here at santa fe community college. he seems a bit refreshed but is not hitting hillary clinton as hard in recent days. going after donald trump and making his case we see city by

city and we see that he is trying to really push voters to remain energized as we get to the furthest end of the primary season. the campaign announced it raised about $27 million in april saying that tops what hillary clinton was able to raise for the fourth month in the row. there are others who are doing the campaign math saying this is really winding down for sanders, he is not willing to give that up. and in a place like new mexico, california to come, he is talking about adding to his 20 wins and hopes to have voters here be energized. he's got a lot of stops. of course, adding to the color of a sanders' event before he took the stage behind the scenes talking to local media. meeting people in private. there was native american music here, adding to sort of the cultural aspects of the campaign trail. so as we're measuring words, i would say he is not as harshly

going after hillary clinton today. but this is his first event of the day. and more to come. >> that jives with your piece in a way. talk about that a little bit. you've been talking to democratic senators who have been having private discussions with senator sanders about whether he wants to burn the house down or make peace eventual eventual eventually. >> it's public we've seen in the last few weeks bernie sanders as his path to the nomination narrows to being shut completely, he has taken a pretty defiant attitude. he continues to go after hillary clinton in pretty strong terms. he continues to paint the democratic party as fundamentally broken and needing major profound reforms to get right again. behind the scenes he's doing a lot of quell the sort of wringing and tensions among democrats his keeping on this way would hurt them in the fall and play into donald trump's hands. in the last week he's called barbara boxer after some of the

chaos in nevada when she was a target as the keynote speaker of some of his supporters. he's called the number two democrat in the senate. and senator durbin told me he came away from the conversation convinced. not a doubt in his mind that bernie sanders will ultimately stay fight for the team, fight for the democrats in the fall to defeat donald trump. it reveals to -- it suggests to me bernie sanders is playing a game of leverage. he wants to go to the convention having as many delegates to influence the platform, influence hillary clinton's general election campaign. he's using the arguments, making the arguments he has to make to keep the supporters energized. as kelly was discussing, and to get every vote he can between now and july and philadelphia. it seems to me that's what his game is. it's difficult to know he hasn't been very clear straightforward about what exactly his strategy and end game is. the pieces are starting to come together. >> also on the cbs "new york times" poll they asked sanders' supporters will you vote for

clinton. 72% said they would. that means 28% say they won't. eight years ago, it's only 60% of clinton supporters said they'd vote for president obama. >> at the same time. >> at the same time eight years ago. my question to you is, you've talked to a lot of sanders' supporters if and when he comes out and says i want everyone to vote for hillary clinton. will he raise that number, will more than 72% of his followers follow his wishes as hillary clinton did eight years ago? >> like you said, it depends a little bit on hillary clinton. if sanders' supporters get the sense she is not committed to these more to the left changes she's made, then they're going to stay home. >> if he says they are. hillary clinton is progressive and a champion, will that be good enough, or do you think they'll reach their independent judgments? >> no, i don't think -- i think that -- i mean the problem for sanders is that just because he says oh, you know everything is

fine. he didn't tell people supporters in nevada to yell and shout. but he did say -- his campaign has put out this idea that there has been disenfranchisement, unfairness. like in new york voters were purged, in arizona the lines were long. people see that and they go the extra step. just because sanders says you should vote for hillary clinton there's also a sense -- they need to be kbiconvinced from he >> i agree. >> thank you for all of your time and wisdom. have a happy friday. good weekend. up next, aol cofounder on his new book the third wave. an entrepreneur's vision of the future right here after this. you focus on making great burgers, or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered to get your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered

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the business, and the community. pg&e really is an expert in saving energy, and that partnership is extremely exciting. together, we're building a better california. welcome, you've got guests. really? we've got a guest. it's aol co-founder of the investment firm revolution and a

big thinker about pretty much everything. steve case. he's got a new book called the third wave an entrepreneur's vision of the future. "new york times" best seller, congratulations. this is the -- >> thank you very much. >> it's the kind of book lots of people are interested in. it's about where the world is where the country is. of course, the title of the third wave begs the question. set the table for us. what was the first wave, what was the second wave and what is this third wave? >> the first wave was -- the focus on the internet. first wave was building the internet and getting people connected. we started 3% were online 30 years ago. everybody is online. the second wave in the last 15 years or so building apps and services on top of the internet. facebook, google twitter. the third wave is integrating the internet seamlessly throughout our lives and society. energy, transportation, food healthcare, education. the reason i wrote the book it's going to require a different

playbook. people, partnerships, policy, to really be effective. >> let me ask you a question, i have two questions that are related. one, you know, donald trump is a businessman. by every metric, right? you look at donald trump as a businessman yourself as an entrepreneur. do you see a kindred spirit in donald trump? is there a character there that you recognize and feel a kinship with? >> sure. on one level he's got a business entrepreneurial background. i stay out of the politics side of things. i focus on trying to bring people together on policy particularly around innovation. i wish this election there had been more focus on entreprene entrepreneurshentrepreneu entrepreneurship economic and job growth. there were six or seven hundred questions in the last debates less than a dozen were on the issue of entrepreneurship. we need to make sure we remain the most innovate nation.

>> i'm not trying to drag you into politics. this is my related second question. >> sure you are. >> my related second question is there are two human beings running for president. as an entrepreneur who wants to create a policy, a climate that's favorable to entrepreneurship. when you look at the two of them and what they've said, how do you evaluate them relatively speaking, not saying who you endorse, how do you evaluate what they've said about the topics on policy that matter from an entrepreneur's point of view? >> they haven't said that much on these issues. again, on both sides. it's not been a big focus of the campaign and the debates. hopefully that will change in the months to come. i remind people 250 years ago america itself was a start up, it was an idea. the reason why we lead the way is because of the work of entrepreneurs first in the agriculture revolution and the industrial revolution and technology revolution. we need to get the focus on the issues on what does it make to

be an entrepreneurial nation. things i talk about in the book. we need more focus in that. >> one of the reason why people are excited about the book it has a vision of the future. in these third wave realms you mentioned healthcare, food, energy, what's a current example of something that's kind of foreshadowing the future where the internet is playing a big role either in a specific industry or state where you say that's what things are going to look like more and more down the road? >> something that's happening right now in some schools, but not most schools are more personalized adaptive approaches to learning. new orleans, they reinvented the school system. a lot of innovation, education technology in places like new orleans. another is a lot of interest in the area of smart cities. things like driverless cars. start ups are focused on how do we move around cities. more people are living there how do we manage them in a smarter

way. it cuts across all sectors of the economy. healthcare is one sixth of our economy. there is a lot of work keeping people healthy. not just about the technology, this is where the internet meets the real world. >> let me ask you, steve, about, it's often said that most of the innovation that's going on in government is going on at the state and sin city level. right? are there places you can point to across the country where there have been innovations in how government works, particularly in innovations that create a better climate for innovation that could be adapted to the federal government easily? >> sure. i should say one positive thing on the federal government, four years ago congress passed the jobs act. jump starting the business start ups act with the work of the white house and congress. crowd funding went into effect this week. entrepreneurs across the country

can use the internet to raise money for their company. it could be a game changer for people not in silicon valley or new york. last week i was in colorado, the governor there, we spent time with entrepreneurs there. unemployment there is under 3%: they figured out a good way to work together the government and private sector working together. we'll need more of that in the third wave. the innovato innovators will nek to the policymakers if we're going to remain the leader. >> i'm obsessed with taking the gdp from 2% to 3.5%. >> we need to do that. >> what's holding us back? >> a lot of things are holding us back. the most important one is we need to focus on entrepreneurs everywhere. last year 75% of venture capital went to california, new york and massachusetts. 47 states fought over the other

25%. 90% went to men. 1% went to people of color. we need to level the playing field across the country and make sure everybody with an idea has a chance. the reason that's important is if you look at the data from the coppen foundation, all the job growth comes from young start ups not the small or big businesses, but start ups. if you want to drive job growth you've got to focus on the start ups. not in a few places, everywhere across the country. >> steve case, congratulations, again, best selling book the third wave available now your finer book stores. buy it on the internet i'm told. again, third wave, entrepreneur's vision of the future, thank you, congratulations. and we'll be right back. why do so many businesses rely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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watch us anytime an bloombergpolitics.com. this week we talk about the new documentary wiener which documents as documentarians do

the 2013 campaign for mayor here in new york. an eye popping cringe inducing detail. we also speak to that campaign's communications director barbara morgan. until monday from us i'm back he's here.f we'll see you on monday. coming up hardball with chris matthews. urban cowboy let's play hardball. good evening i'm chris matthews in washington. on guns and terror donald trump spent the day chasing the cowboy soul of the republican party. he spoke at the nra's national forum this afternoon and picked up the national group's endorsement. he said hillary clinton wants to take people's guns away from them. and abolish the second amendment. >> the second amendment is under a threat like