rocks fly. police hit at a trump rally. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews. tonight american politics is heading to a boiling point. donald trump was quick to jump. >> she had a little bad news today, as you know, from some reports came down weren't so good. not so good.

the inspector general's report not good. she doesn't have the temperament to be president. she's got bad judgment. she's got horribly bad judgment. that was stated by none other than crazy bernie. with benghazi and our ambassador, if she wins you'll have nothing but turmoil and fur more years of the obama and you can't take that. >> there were more protests outside trump's rally. that was today. demonstrators ripped apart trump's sign and burned trump's hat. earlier trump went after last night's protesters in albuquerque. he said the protesters in new mexico were thugs who were flying the mexican flag. the rally inside was big and beautiful but outside, criminals. the scenes outside last night were pretty. rocks flew, police injured and

people arrested. inside, trump mocked the sound of hillary's voice and her use of teleprompters. >> i watch her speaking. we're going to win north and south and east and west. i will never say this. she screams. it drives me crazy. i can't listen. i can't listen. donald trump is a terrible person, and he wanted to buy housing when it was at a low point. who the hell doesn't? who doesn't? >> politico reported that trump plans to go after clinton on another scandal from the 1990s, white water. an e-mail picks was accidental sent to politico. a trump campaign advisor asked a researcher to work up information on hillary clinton and whitewater as soon as possible. this is for immediate use and

afternoon talking points process, close quote. we're watching the trump campaign. their strategy at work, it's called attack, attack, attack. also last night, that's oldies but goodies. i dug up old interviews that showed him not interested in president but would be used to the requirements. >> i'm not sure i would like the life of a politician. >> will you release your income tax returns? >> it's something i haven't thought of but i guess as i get closer to the decision, it's something i will be thinking of. they are very big. they're very complex. i would probably have -- i probably wouldn't have a problem with doing it. >> they're very big. i make a lot of money. let's start with this fact. i don't think it looked very good.

i don't think the mexican flag made the case you want to make if you're out there trying to sell a point of view about assimilating americans and bringing them into the country what are your thoughts? >> he does not need this. >> you say it hurts him? >> it underscores the narrative he will be a divider and have years of this going on. he wants to focus on the state department report. he wants to focus on it like a laser. get rid of the arrest and the rhetoric that heats things up. go back to your play book that attacks hillary. >> it's not the nixon stuff, encouraging minorities to look bad, it's go after hillary. >> i think he is doing better when he goes after hillary rather than wading into these things that people call him a racist and he gets into that space. that's never going to be good for the general election. the people being arrested are

not people who are planting flowers and quilting quilts. these are people who are throwing rocks at police officers. i think it's important to point out this is not make for good democracy when you are so angry at what you're hearing that you want to shut down, completely shut down the ability of people to speak on their own. donald trump has the right to say what he wants to say, and these people cannot throw rocks at police. they cannot destroy property. i think we have to make the distinction. >> wait until the convention. that will be something. >> it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. he says things about you see images of mexican flags clashing with police. if it were the primary it would be helpful for donald to see that. general election voters are trying to unify the party. he hasn't been out doing rallies in places like this. people are reminded of how

divisive he is. it's not good to show to general election voters. they want change. not anarchy. >> hillary clinton went after trump for his excellent to be made in a down real estate market. she accused trump of wanting to make money offer the people of misery. he responded. his defense, i'm a businessman. >> i see this low life tonight. i see this low life. she puts on an ad, did you know that donald trump was rooting against housing because he want housing to go down. i'm a businessman. that's what i'm supposed to do. if she did it, she would want to buy at the top. if it goes down, it goes down. i'm in business. who the hell ever thought i would be running for political office before? >> secretary clinton reacted to those comments at rally today.

>> donald trump actually rooted for the housing crash that cause five million families their homes. we called him out on it yesterday using his own words. you know what he said in response, well, he bragged about what he did. a good result in donald trump's world is he gets his and you get hurt. >> she has a great argument there. he looked like a complete exploiter of disaster. that's all they own. that's all people own is the house. that's the only value. if you go out there and pick up the pieces, you're an exploiter. she's not as good with this. he loves this game of smacking back and forth, smack down politics and she's there with her notes trying to keep up with this guy. his speed is different. he can be rotten about this but he seems to really relish this kind of comeback. >> 1996 movie, "mars attacks."

everyone shoots everybody, that's this campaign. they got to stay on theme. they have to build case and stay on them. >> who wins this combat? >> donald trump. >> i disagree. i think hillary clinton wins because she will underscore this volatility that scares people. >> because we're in this space right now with donald trump, he has proven over and over again that he wins. he wins in 140 characters a night over and over. >> republican primaries, not the general. >> let eets talk about this e-mail thing. i've been hearing about rumors that we all have. what is kome going to do. rumor, rumor. finally the ig does come out. he didn't like the way she handled the e-mail. is this a big issue? >> yeah because of the skill trump has as a communicator. he paints with a broad brush, crooked hillary, crooked hillary. people don't have to read the entire article. they see a headline tomorrow

about this and they say, sort of fits with what donald trump said. >> she didn't turn over all the e-mails at the time she used them or all at once when she left. that was the charge. >> i think the entire e-mail scandal, it just proves she diz not have the judgment to be president. i think that's the argument that bernie is making. i think the difference between that and i don't know the full details but as i understand it, collin powell, it was made aware he was using a different e-mail. >> it's damning because there's two segments in there. >> it was hacked. mike told me, a certainty that the iranians and russians and chinese were into her server. she has broken the law.

>> she's broken the law but nothing will happen to her. she's broken the law. >> nothing will happen to her? how does that work? >> i think in the same way that donald trump has proven that he has the ability to pelt and pelt, and destroy. hillary -- >> we're talking about the attorney general. who will stop her if she does deserve justice here? >> maybe i'm naive but i think her machine -- >> is working in the justice department to protect her? >> the fbi takes this seriously. they will not let it slide. >> what does that mean? >> elizabeth warren, the senator from massachusetts called trump an insecure money grubber. let's watch. >> what kind of a man roots for people to get thrown out of

their house? what kind of man roots for people to get thrown out of their jobs? to root for people to lose their pensions? to root for two little girls in clark county, nevada to end up living out of a van? what kind of a man does that? i'll tell you exactly what kind of a man that does that. it's man who cares about no one but himself. a small [ applause ] a small, insecure, money grubber who doesn't care who gets hurt so long as he makes a profit off it. >> well, everybody's in the dirt here even the great elizabeth warren. trump knocked her as well today. here he is going after senator warren. >> i was being hit by pocahantas. that's elizabeth warren. she gets less known than anybody in the united states senate.

she gets nothing done and nothing passed. she's got a big mouth. they use her because hillary is trying to be very presidential. she's stopping with the shouting. >> he's saying she's shouting. she's not. what about you seeing elizabeth warren, perfectly cleaned, loved by the progressives, to use her as your attacker. is that working or is that going to make her a side show fight for him? >> i don't think they don't have much of a choice. you saw how compelling she was when talking about two little girls in nevada living out of a van when how compelling hillary is not. to weaponize this attack against trump. greed is baked into the brand for 30 years. it's the lack of empathy. she communicates it so much more effectively. i think hillary will rely on people to carry that message or provide a template she can follow.

>> elizabeth warren is sort of fresh off the bench. she has a regular job. united states senate. she's not been pounded for the last 20 years. >> she's not been pounded but she has the abilities to give it back to trump. >> who wins the fight? >> donald trump will always win a fight when it's social media or twitter. she cannot continue to engage with him like there. >> most regular people go why is he saying that? the answer from somebody with him is because she said she was part cherokee on a application. >> she cannot continue to engage in this type of battle with him. he will raise the stakes and raise the stakes. she won't continue to do it. >> she has credibility with

those voters. she has credibility. she's authentic with those people. >> i believe think ivy leaguer and all that. she comes from the working class. i'm still trying to figure out who you're going to vote for. coming up, much more on those bad headlines for hillary clinton. it says she violated rules on e-mails while at stake. what is clinton need to do now to limit the damage. it's going to be some plus tomorrow. big news from a major labor association. we're waiting to see who be united auto workers will back for president. dennis williams will come here to announce and deliver their endorsement for president. big news, big scoop here tonight. coming up, more vintage trump.

we'll hear trump in his own words. finally, three things you don't know about the 2016 race. you'll hear them here. you'll want to stick around for the hardball round table. that's tonight too. it's all here on hardball, the place for politics. pizza is perfect. pizza with bacon cheeseburger on it... way, way more perfect.

papa's bacon cheeseburger pizza is back. and try our new mushroom swiss burger pizza. just ten dollars each for a large. papa john's dot com president obama says not to worry. he has faith in the american political system even though it can look messy to the rest of the world. here he was in a town hall. >> i think sometimes other countries look at our election system and we think, and people think, wow, what a mess. usually, we end up doing okay because the american people are good people. i'm optimistic that we'll get

through this period and one of the great things about the united states is that even when it makes mistakes, i think it's able to adjust and recognize our mistakes and then we correct course and take different steps. things are going to be okay. i promise. all right. >> hard to read that crowd. we'll be right back.

welcome back. bad news for hillary clinton today. an independent audit says the former secretary of state violated the federal recordkeeping rules. the report said at a minimum, secretary clinton should have surrendered all e-mails dealing with department issues before dealing with government service. she didn't comply with policies.

collin powell also failed to preserve government e-mails when he was secretary of state. bryan found released a statement saying contrary to the false theories advanced for some time now, the report notes that her use of personal e-mail was known to officials within the department during her tenure and there's no evidence of any successful breach of the server. it was not unique and she took steps much further and release her records. what's the gravity of this report? >> it's not a crippling blow for clinton or her campaign. it wounds one of her key talking points she's been using for the 14 months or so we've been living through this story is this was permitted under state department policy.

she was allowed to use an outside e-mail account. the report says you were not allowed to use an outside e-mail account as your primary means of e-mail since 2005. that clearly

no one is making that assertion who has -- >> he was. >> direct lines into what's happening. there's more to come. clinton will have to answer some tough questions which she didn't do. >> alex baldwin, some democrats are discussing whether democratic national committee chair should step down. there's been a lot of meetings about what color plate we deliver their head on. that's a little reference to st. john the baptist. >> it really took me aback when

i heard that. >> how much scope or depth do you have to people who are convinced, who are ready to dump her. how many people like that? >> only a few people. they're having conversations with numerous colleagues. they have said that wasserman schultz is a concern. >> what's her problem? what has she done wrong? convinced, who are ready to dump her. how many people like that? >> only a few people. they're having conversations with numerous colleagues. they have said that wasserman schultz is a concern. >> what's her problem? what has she done wrong? >> she's become the face of a

rigged system. what bernie sanders calls a rigged system. >> what did she do that objectively recognized as rigging? >> scheduling only six debates. >> what times? >> scheduling on weekends and saturday nights when people aren't likely to watch. also pouncing on sanders so quickly during that dispute over the voter database in december. >> if she gets dumped as dnc chair, that impairs her chance down there. >> sanders has helped her opponent by raising money. the question for democrats at this point is do they want the mess of trying to get rid of debbie wasserman-schultz. who's the person that everyone will support.

>> the obama white house has been at odds with sanders for a long time. there's reports of personal animosity. they have never brought down the hammer and tried to force her out. i can't see they would think this is great moment to do that. >> the party nominee generally is in charge of picking the party chair, is that right? if trump wins, it's normalized. he gets to pick the party chair. it's really up to him. >> that's been the tradition. we have seen so much tension between the establishment and various people running for the nomination, who knows if people will stick to those rules or not. >> good question, but i think they will. thank you. this is a weird year. good reporting.

i'm not sure if she's going to get dumped, but you make a good case. thank you. i agree with your trade craft. it's one of the largest, most powerful labor unions. who will the united auto workers back? the president is coming here to make their endorsement here on this program. it's called hardball, the place for politics.

hello. unions to not yet endorse for president until now. until this moment. uaw national president has said the decision is made. the group will be all in now. mr. williams joins me now with an exclusive announcement, which is.

>> the executive board voted to support hillary clinton for president of the united states. >> you're all in now? >> we're all in. >> all your members are with you in. >> all members will be with us. >> what percentage do you think will vote for donald trump? >> we had 28% in our polling and i believe probably six percent. >> what it will come down to be. >> 6%. >> three out of ten are now supporting trump. what's the impulse? >> two issues. when we did our polling, before we endorsed we did a lot of polling, focus groups. we focused on what the members were saying. we had two great friends of labor. it was a tough decision. our membership was very split. 28% we focused on trump supporters. immigration and trade were the two issues. >> you are tough on trade though, right? >> we are. >> you're with bernie, at least.

trump, you're with him. >> we're with trump on what he said, not what he says. i mean that because here he is in detroit michigan. to go on the to ford and says by the way, i would close the plants in michigan, ohio, indiana, illinois, kansas and all them. >> he would have a lock out. >> that's what i would look at. he was discounted immediately. >> after following him for a little bit we watched the debates and you didn't get much of the the republican debate.

>> he's tough on labor. >> he's tough on labor. >> we're focused on good paying jobs. >> let me ask you. i will praise you. clean union from the beginning. no mob stuff. never. always clean. >> what singling you out? that's why we have you on because you're pretty admirable. >> our union has always been focused on the needs of the membership and social issues.

>> here you are openly endorsing hillary clinton. you have a word for bernie? >> it's about time for unity. we love bernie sanders. she's gotten three million more votes than bernie. she's our nominee. it's time to unite behind a strong candidate. hillary clinton has proven she's a leader. she's been scrutinized. she's been criticized. she is a tough individual. >> thank you. dennis williams. thank you for coming on. next vintage trump. i look back at my interviews. i have a couple of them to show you tonight. they're interesting. we'll be back with the place for politics.

>> welcome back to hardball. i would not run under any circumstance if i didn't think i would win the whole thing. >> welcome back to hardball. that was donald trump saying in 1999, he wouldn't run for president if he didn't think he could win the whole thing. no college try for him. now 17 years later, he has a chance of winning.

we see what is consistent from him and what is not. he said he wasn't suited for the oval office because he said he wouldn't enjoy the job. >> i'm not sure i would enjoy the life of a politician. i think that you're just on all the time and, by the way, no easy job. this is really tough stuff. it's just something that i don't think would suit me very well. i don't think i would enjoy it very well. to do something really well, you really have to enjoy it. you've got to love it as vince lombardi said. you do have to love it. trump acknowledged should he run for president, he would have to release his tax returns, which he said he would probably do. >> when you run for president, will you release your income tax returns? >> it's something i haven't thought of but as i get closer to the decision, which i'll probably make in february, it's something i will be thinking of. they're very big.

they're very complex. i would probably wouldn't have a problem with doing it. >> i probably wouldn't have a problem doing it. i'm joined by julia reed. that's the long title. joining me is april ryan. what's changed? is this his bucket list? >> what's changed is he's older and more settled. this is something he's never accomplished before. something new for him. this is a, this potentially could be on his bucket list at age 69. >> he says he's going to release his tax returns. those are things that are

specific. he knew he had to do it way back in 1999. why did he run? >> i don't think this is all well thought out as for an ordinary candidate like hillary clinton who has plotted this every step of the way for her entire life. i think his trick is to keep us talking about other things. he's going to talk about ted cruz' father and talk about pocahontas. if we're talking about that, we're not talking about his tax return returns. >> what are you hiding? if she talked like him, he'd be in trouble. >> if they can make it stick. >> there's no law that says he has to show the taxes. over the last 40 years these candidates have given their taxes. he looks like something is wrong. >> this election has proved he can get away with stuff.

he doesn't have to do what he said. >> we know back in the '70s, he didn't pay any taxes at all. >> even people who have to pay taxes don't care about that with trump. the more shameless he is, they don't care. >> in 2003, i asked who would he rather see as president, rudy giuliani or hillary clinton. here is what i got back. >> you don't have a favorite. who would you vote for, hillary or rudy? >> don't ask me that question. >> don't ask me that. i'm sorry. one he's running against now and the other is backing him. >> he's a shrewd businessman. he has business with both. i equate him to a misguided new species of animal. part donkey and part elephant. a republican versus a democrat. he doesn't want to touch that

one. >> right now he's touching it. hillary's a low life. >> he didn't want to upset the apple cart which even then he was not as big a player as he thought. he was trying to be cool. >> back during the clinton years. i love to hear him talk about the clintons. he supported the clintons. i remember being at a fund-raiser in trump tower for congressman ed towns who happens to be my cousin. >> is he? i like ed towns from brooklyn. >> yes. he monopolized bill clinton's time so much that people couldn't take pictures with bill clinton. this is so interesting to hear this. >> i was in cross roads in south africa. that town was great. >> i love it. >> trump is consistent when it comes to foreign countries that he says are ripping us off. here is what he says about saudi arabia 15 years ago. >> we protect all these countries and they use -- i

can't use the word screw on cable, but i will any way. we protect them and they screw us with our energy. it's a terrible situation. it shouldn't happen. it's happening in spades. >> you can say screw now. that's how bad things have gotten. he says the countries have to pay their load. they're screwing us on oil prices. >> i think people vote their pocketbooks. the democrats have a vulnerability or seized on a vulnerability of his right now. it's not just the income tax thing but this sound bite of his from a few years ago when he was rooting for the housing market crash. >> he says he was looking for opportunities in a low market. good luck explaining that. you saw the statement he put out. it was the most nuanced thing i've heard trump say. this is how democrats win. they make republicans look like they don't care. that's what they have been unable to do with trump. it's not but this contributes to

a narrative he's in it for himself. he doesn't care about people like you and it totally undercuts his appeal as a savior. >> remember joe made money. he had money when no one else did and he bought. people do that. >> people do that. >> the round table is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. this is hardball, the place for politics. when we stopped selling the cheeseburger pizza, boy did i hear about it. @biggbill7 writes: are you kidding me? no more cheeseburgers on a pizza? are you kidding me? they're back, big bill - with bacon. are you kidding me?! papa's bacon cheeseburger pizza is back. piled high with hickory smoked bacon, dill pickles, and zesty burger sauce. and try our new mushroom swiss burger pizza. just ten dollars each for a large. papa john's dot com

hillary clinton appeared on the ellen show today as she played a game of who would you rather. she was presented with some interesting options. let's watch. >> all right. let's see. mark cuban or joe biden. >> oh, joe. >> you're picking joe. i got to go with tony. >> got to go with tony. >> got to go with tony. >> bernie sanders. >> got to go with tony. >> kanye. >> i got to go with tony. what can i say? >> george clooney. >> well, tony could be the first term and george could be the second. >> all right. that's tony goldwyn who is on "scandal." we'll be right back.

we're back with hardball. tell me something i don't know. isn't it great having you here. >> it's lovely to be here. people may have made a lot about the fact that david duke the white supremacists has thrown his support to donald trump, but who trump reminds me of more than duke is duke's old opponent that i covered in '91, same kind of thing. edwards would say anything he wanted to. the more shameless he got, the more the supporters loved hip.

what's going to -- >> they threw votes for him. >> it's the same with trump. >> it's the old joke. >> even people who hated edwards had to vote for him to keep duke from the office and republicans think that way with hillary. >> one of the greatest questions was when david duke was asked what made you hate americans so much that you became a member of the nazi party. >> you'll hear talk about bob corker angling for some type of position. someone told me today that corker's aides have been asking journalists if he would be interested in the vice president. >> that's like the guy calling

up and saying i'm a friend of donald trump. >> something different on the hillary clinton campaign. the mother of eric garner is supporting hillary clinton. she said this a couple of weeks ago and i asked her on the phone today yet again when he died july 17th she said that the police were called because there was a fight and he was breaking up the fight not selling lucy's. he said i can't breathe. >> that was one of the simpler cases. >> there's a federal grand jury investigation. >> thank you. that's the last word. coming up inside the world of dark money how politics is influenced by a secret understood ground flow of cash from rich guys. you're watching hardball. this it felt like i had just gone to the dentist.

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many believe that money and politics is untraceable or unlimited or what's referred to as dark money is having an effect on our politics. jane mayor is the author of "dark money." she joins me now. jane, we all know there's big money in politics. how does it effect the way this country sets policy, the way people think and read the newspapers. >> it's hugely influential and what people are doing is looking for money in the wrong places. they're only looking at elections.

what this book tells you is there is an underground machine that's pushing the point of view of the richest people in the country and they are pushing their point of view through a series of think tanks, academic programs, publications and front groups and the front groups played a huge party in the tea party and many other things. what you see in elections is just the tip of the iceberg. >> when you pick up the newspaper and you wrote the intellectual part, but next there will be somebody from senior fellow, the manhattan institute, who is paying all these people? >> the billionaires who fund them. that is the thing. and their private interests they represent. this book tells the story about the koch brothers.

they represent the oil business and fossil fuel industry. so you will see things that question global warming everywhere, follow the money. it goes back to them. >> these people like the koch brothers, every time we deregulate them helps them. they ought to get writeoffs for their political contributions. they're so interested in ever candidate they put up. >> one of the things that the book talks about is how many deductions they take for this political work they do in the guise of it being so-called social welfare groups and charities. >> how do they get into universities? do they pay for chairs, the study of private enterprise or what. >> you laugh but they actually do and they have sent -- set up and funded private centers in

many many colleges and universities. there are over 300 colleges and universities in this country at this point with special programs pushing the point of view of these billionaires. some of them are state schools so you have government run schools taking private money to push this on kids. they see the kids as the future generation. >> state legislators that come up with the same ideas. they have have elaborate id card system and you found out that's been from one state to the next. >> you have to hand it to them, they were pretty ingenious. they're engineers. they looked at american politics and they thought -- where are the widgets. how do you get control of this machine? they figured out state

legislators are something neglected. they poured money into them. >> you're an unbelievable journalist. bernie has raised the issue. he's done a good job. jane is telling you the story. buy the book and you'll know about money and how it's working its way in politics. usually on the hard right. this is "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight. grubber who doesn't care who gets hurt so long as he makes a profit off it. >> the democratic onslaught continues. >> we don't need a predator to be our president. >> shame, shame. >> a good result in donald trump's world is he gets his and you gert