good thursday everyone, i am craig melvin, we start this hour with breaking news, we are awaiting donald trump who's expected to speak to reporters soon. this is the first time since we heard from him since he clinched the 1237, the number of delegates required for nomination. ahead of this plan 2:00 p.m. speech in north dakota. we'll bring it to you live as it happens. we heard from house speaker paul ryan. ryan is still not endorsing trump and despite another phone call between the two republicans last night. >> it was a productive phone call, we had this conversation and our staffs have been meeting, we had a very good and productive phone call, i will leave it at that. >> is that a yes? >> a very productive phone call.

>> debate between trump and bernie sanders. and jeff weaver with my colleague, andrea mitchell. >> lets see if he has the courage to get on stage with bernie sanders. that'll be the real test. >> over the next hour, i will be joined by joe bennett of the clinton campaign and halie jackson. we start with the best political team in the business covering all the angles of this political avenue. halie jackson is scheduled to speak. halie, lets start with you out there in the mountain west and this of course is a big milestone for the guy that would not thought to make the finish line. what kind of victory could we expect for donald trump? >> reporter: something big and something huge presumably here

in the rally. we are seeing a little bit of celebration coming from his top advisors. for example, a couple of minutes ago, one of his aids tweeted out this photo. his original core has been with him since the beginning and celebrating and hitting that magic number and clinching it and locking up that nomination. how did it happen? unbound delegates in north dakota coming on board for donald trump coming out and supporting him in cleveland in july. we are getting reactions from a senior advisor from the campaign telling me that the grass root is coming around trump perhaps more than gop leadership. that seems to be a signal as the cheer goes up in the crowd here. it seems to be a signal that there will be fresher put that the trump campaign will put pressure on leaders and the accomplishment who have not yet back trump, speaker paul ryan

and expect trump when he does talk about this and not just presumably in north dakota in this rally to talk about how he clinched the nomination on the republican side. before hillary clinton clinches her on the democratic side. and he will also probably talk about being able to lock this up before the california primary on june 7th when a lot of folks thought he would end up getting over the edge and getting over that final hurdle. a lot of developments here. still some questions for trump and he will be facing and when he starts that campaign in about half an hour. >> luke, lets talk about this and halie jackson mentioned that phone call that happened last night. the speaker said it was product tiff but not s productive but did not say a lot more.

what can you say about that? >> reporter: both sides are having ongoing policy negotiations between the staffs. what's going on here is two things. number one is, paul ryan is still trying to figure out where he sees eye to eye with donald trump and where they have a different in opinion and how they could bridge those two gaps. there is a lot of questions the ryan's cam still has who is donald trump and where he is on issues. ryan is going to release policy papers coming up in the next month and he wants to make sure that donald trump is on board there before he gets his full on endorsement. the other thing is i think you saw some friction between the ryan camp or the trump camp. there is a report earlier from bloomberg of ryan on the -- they

don't necessarily feel that's a best way to develop a trusting relationship. you are seeing this play out back and forth and it will be fascinating of the degree of the length of how long that'll go. one other thing i will throw in there and given the context of all this is you are starting to see more unity here on capitol hill in the file. ryan really is on an island. he's the only republican congressional leader that's not all in for donald trump right now. all his colleagues have gone all in. right now he seems to be in line with rehis running mate, romney. >> how intensive is the arm twisting right now.

>> oh, they're trying to create paul manafort of the trump campaign, they're experiencing and they are trying to create this culture in ability. they're handing out hats this morning. the members love to swag and be with the winner. ryan with his position, he's one of the only republicans that's strong enough and does not necessarily have to do that. he's going to try to extract some concessions of policy proposals or whether donald trump tones down rhetoric and other areas. ryan wants something and he does not want to go along with the crowd. >> halie, of this 1237 milestone, there is been a lit bill of turmoil inside the campaign of another departure of who's gone and how significant

is that. >> reporter: yeah, rick wylie and an unexpected turn of event yesterday. the campaign announcing that the team and wylie had split ways. interestingly, wylie was the one who was basically leading the charge to put more boosts on the grounds in places like florida and pennsylvania. ready to campaign for trump and ready to put people in leadership roles in order to get some sort of a campaign going at that level as they turn into the general election. wylie's departure is settling and still questions surrounding it. they have been doing so over the last few weeks trying to add members to their team and trying to figure out how all the pieces and kind of all fit together and playing catch up now with hillary clinton who's been doing this and making the same moves for months. >> halie jackson for us there in montana and luke russer for us

on the hill. meanwhile as we wait for donald trump taking the podium there. lets bring in berry bennett, the senior advisor to the trump campaign. lets start with this threshold of 1237. you goo is have cro you guys have crossed it. what does it mean? does it make fundraiser easier? it makes everything easier. i would like to congratulate the whole thing. you start out this thing and you dream of this day and it is here. congratulations of everybody involved. >> now that the nomination is clinched, what does it mean for the process of picking a number two? what does it mean for picking a vp candidate. can you talk about who the campaign has in mind? >> i won't talk about names but it is important -- we got to get this convention planned and select a vp and a lot of money to raise and we got a lot of things to do. >> do we get the vp before the convention? >> i don't think so. i think it will be more

traditional and a kind of conventional announcement. >> we heard from paul ryan of the phone call. what more can you tell us about the call and ongoing conversation between his team and your team. >> the teams are talking bright and early. >> what are they talking about, berry? what are their hang ups here between the two camps? >> we are getting to know each other and talking about the policy and what the house's plans are. speaker ryan, he's a great guy and you know, he will do this in his own time and there is no pressure. we look forward to campaigning for him and his caucasus comes this fall. >> you and i having this conversation as we are waiting for donald trump there to take the podium there. what kind of victory lapse is he

going to take and what are we going to hear from north dakota. >> there will be a short one because today is a day for celebration but we got to get back to work. >> i want to talk to you of some trouble that he's gotten to a few days regarding to suzanne martin martinez. i want to play her response to some of the things he said at that rally a few nights ago. >> the statement he made are all politics. the things he was saying are not addressing the real issues of new mexico. it is facing -- i can tell you one thing, i am not going to vote for hillary clinton. >> she, of course, you know have yet to endorse the boss, mr. trump. now that he has crossed the threshold, the republican governor like her who has not embraced trump, do they need to fall in line or up to him perhaps to be a tad more

magnumus. >> they need to do what they tell him to do. we don't always agree with nominees as i certainly have not in the past. in the fall, we all go on the same boat of the same direction. >> a few members are not happy of the way he treated her a few days ago. paul ryan came out saying she's been a great governor and jeb bush and marco rubio all of them coming to her defense praising her record. why go out there and do that. what was gained by that? >> well, i don't know, it was done of intentions of gaining of anything. the two of them had a turbulent relationship and hope the time will take care of that. >> again, he's the gop's presidential nominee and she's not just the governor of new

mexico. he essentially goes to her house and insult her to her face. presidential candidate don't do that. >> we are not in the old play book anymore. >> you know she used some sharp rhetoric about him as well. i hope that now he's clinched and everybody will understand he's our nominee and we are all republicans and we all need to work together. >> again, as we wait for trump to take the podium there in north dakota. lets talk about new poll numbers and bloomberg has this new online polls and middle income voters. hillary clinton is leading your candidate in ohio and wisconsin, those are a number of states that time and time again he plans to flip in november. the survey found 60% of folks were bothered a lot when donald

trump calls women pigs, dogs and slobs and disgusting and 27% say they were bothered of hillary clinton's enable of her husband's fidelity. >> what do you make of that? the bottom line is he's not saying those things. >> he said it as a private citizen and entertainer decades ago so they are not really real vent and other public polling and in ohio and pennsylvania and michigan we are doing very well. >> president obama over seas, this is what he said about the gop nominee in japan. take a listen. >> it is fair to say there are some pride by the republican nominee. they're not sure how seriously to take -- um, some of his

pronouncements but they are rattled by it. >> they're rattled by it. what's your reaction to that? >> there is a long tradition of the presidency about not talking about politics over seas. i think he should adhere to that. you don't think president obama should be talking about donald trump when he's outside of america. >> correct. >> um, last night, trump in "jimmy kimmel" talking about the back and forth with regards to clinton, this is that exchange. >> in 2008, you thought clinton will make an excellent president and in 2012, what did she do? >> i will tell you, all over the world, i speak well of everybody. if people ask me about politician, i speak well.

when they ask me about hillary, she's wonderful and everybody is wonderful. that's the way it is including contributions. they ask me of contributions they give me contributions. >> so you are full of [ bleep ] when you said it. >> at least he admitted right there that he was a bit full of it a few years ago. is that the position right now that he did not mean it then and he did mean it now? >> he's being polite. he's going to talk about the differences and some of the things frankly -- disqualifies her. >> trump campaign senior's add v advisor, bennett. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> still ahead, the talk of the debate perhaps between donald trump and bernie sanders and joel benenson, joining me live

here on the other side of this break. we are keeping an eye on bismarck, north dakota. we are expect to hear from donald trump the first time since officially clinching the nomination of the president of the united states. first, breaking news off the coast of north carolina, navy officials there say two f 18s have crashed off the shore of cape hateras, we can tell you all four crew members, all of them have been recovered and one suffers a minor injury. they were on a training mission when it happened. all four managed to eject and all four of them are expected to be okay. we'll be right back. like forward emergency braking that could stop your car for you. save even more with holiday bonus cash this memorial day, during nissan's safety today event. for a limited time, save up to $1,500 on the 2016 nissan rogue

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we are expecting to hear from donald trump for the first time since he found out this morning he's officially hit hit that magic number. he will be speaking to the media before speaking at a petroleum conference there in bismarck, dakota, we'll bring it to you as soon as it gets under way there. lets turn to vegas where trump is holding a campaign event and hillary clinton is talking to union workers about raising income. he's trying to keep the election by focusing on income. earlier today, trump wasting no time tweeting, "the inspector general's report on crooked hillary is a disaster.

such bad judgment and temperment cannot be in the white house." clinton had been on defense pretty much in the last 24 hours. >> i have turned overall my e-mails and no one else could say that. i have been incredibly opened about doing that i will continue to be opened and it is not an issue that's going to affect the campaign or my presidency. >> joel benenson, it is always good to see you here, thank you for stopping by. donald trump is hitting it hard and likely spending some time when he speak there is in the mountain west. you guys have tried to use the past few days o f his business dealings to go after him. are you going to change your approach at all moving forward in the wake of this ig report? >> no, i think this report deals

with what people have heard a lot about the last year of what eight or nine months ago, secretary clinton says, look, this was not the best decision. she regretted it and apologize for it and what this report basically says, you know, that it would have been better for her to have a state point government e-mail. the report says in one of its recommendations we have to clarify communications about what is permitted and what is not. >> you guys have been saying that a lot in the past day or so. the reality is they're not running for president of the united states. they also don't have this perception problem that they're not trust worthy and you will acknowledge it. a lot of folks in this country don't think she's honest.

>> the issue here you are raising of all the other secretaries of state and the comment i made and we have about half a dozen who's been there in the internet age. the first one is john kerry. this election is going to be about people's lives, economic lives and families. you know, you had donald trump on the air a few minutes ago at a segment saying oh, i don't say bad things about people and i say good things about people. ask suzanne martinez about that. this is the guy that's most decisive and dangerous candidate that we have in our lifetime. he has demollized women and the country. the american people want to know which of these two people can i count onto make our lives better and raise income and making our future better. we'll have that debate from now on out with donald trump and we'll win this in november. >> speak of debate, lets talk about the possibility of a trump

slander debate. here it is. all right, we don't have it but there is been a back and forth. he said last night on "jimmy kimmel" that he will be opening in a debate. >> he wants to know if you will debate him. >> yes, i am, how much is he going to defend him. >> if i debated him, we'll have such high ratings and i think i should take that money and give it to some worthy charity. [ cheers ] >> if he pays a nice lump sum, i would love to do that. >> donald trump saying he will give money to charity.

and look, here is the guy who's out there talking about debating bernie sanders and we'll have debates with donald trump and we are looking forward to those. this is the guy who said to the american people that i would release my tax returns if i run for president. now, he's not goidoing it. >> this is something we talked about a lot here. that's not an issue that's resonating with a lot of voters. that's if people don't even care. >> i would disagree with that. >> i think it is an issue that we are beginning to talk about for the first time and the media has impressed him on it which they should be doing. jimmy kimmel asking him about his tax returns of the last time he's been on these interview shows and not since george stephanopoulos asked him. he said to the american people" it is not of your business" and he claims he makes millions and he paid nothing in taxes. he's hiding something on his tax

returns and he does not want the american people to see it whether it is not worth of what he said or failed businesses, he does not want the american people to see what's in there. >> joel benenson. thank you very much for your time. when we come back right there, donald trump at bismarck, dakota, brian williams will pick up our coverage after the break. you know when i first started out,

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i've been a forensic artist for over 30 years. i do the composite sketches which are the bad guy sketches. you need good resolution, powerful processor because the computer has to start thinking as fast as my brain does. i do this because i want my artwork to help people. good day once again, brian williams is with you here in new york. we'll show you where we are going to go this half hour. bismarck, north dakota, and billi billing montana is later today. that podium will host donald trump coming up here. he's going to make a statement to the press and be raavailableo

the press and take questions. the equation today is this. something that happened a few hours ago here on msnbc. because o f a shift in some unbound delegates. not because there is been any political contest that has moved the earth. donald trump has been declared by this news organization and now several others as the official or official until the convention makes it official, numerical. he's at 1238, anyone who's been following politics this season knows that the number we have been waiting for is 1237 delegates on the republican side. so, this happened slowly and relatively quietly. but, donald trump now has the math that he needs to go into the cleveland convention. chris mathew is with us as we

count down to hearing from donald trump in bismarck, what just changed and your discussion of last night. >> oh, you know, it was rock him and sock him, you know? right at the last minute of some delegates making it official of 1237. here he is moving early and he will try around third base to keeping the baseball metaphor. it is going to be not as exciting. but i got the card this morning and it was happening. i am amazed. the whole year, the one thi thing -- i guess i get paid for is i know political history and the patterns and the cycles and the way things work and the way they have worked over the years. the great thing about covering politics is there is such a phenomenon of it. who would expect on the other side of what's going on over

there and bernie sanders digging his feet in saying i am going to fight right through philadelphia hoping for a break of e-mail or whatever. this one is over, absolutely over. i wish i had an answer for you that i can understand why this happens the last minute but he's done and he's in. >> yes, chris, reflecting our conversation on the broadcast last night and any other nights going back months for that matter, there is a not significant population especially of republicans who don't want to believe this is over and done and want to believe there is some route out of here and something is yet to happen. >> because their who he woule l have been built on climbing up the ladder of hierarchy and working of the old phrase from san raburn to get alone, going i along. the politics of not making waves or mistakes and working your way

throw sloely wly in the leaders. a regional whip, that's something we heard out of washington. you slowly earn your points. a friend of mind he's a senator now, he spent 30 years and got elected into politics. he spent 30 years waiting so you can be a big deal of the chairman or ranking menn. here is trump as of today, they are not ready for this kind of world. they recesented -- trump did no do it, he did not wait for anybody fch anybody. going overall the archive of interviews i have done with mr. trump back in the 1990s, there is a pattern. he says he's going to use shows

loo i c like mine to get elected and free media and that was his plan. there was a lot of spirit that he appealed to it and nationalism and progun and raising the minimum wage. there is a lot of consistency in what i have been able to find in the archives to this long plan and key to run for president which turned out to be successful to date. >> chris mathews in washington. chuck todd our political director and moderator "meet the press" is standing by to watch donald trump these comments of the q & a along with us. same question to you, what changed today? >> well, i get that i am not and i don't think anything really changed from when ted cruz dropped out. i get the good news if you are trump is there was always this feeling that if he did not have it, there was a back door way to stop him. if there had been a back door way to stop him, he would be stopped by now.

the party chose not to do that. for some, it gets more real than yesterday, this is been pretty real for a while now. the next moment to me where some thing changes is when you see him give the acceptance speech. for me, the first time i am ever and professionally covering politics. the first time i can visualize somebody actually being president and for me, it is always that moment of accepting the nomination, giving that speech and that's the first time it locks and feels real to me. i think everybody has their own subjective moment of when they start actually picturing cining candidate and nominee y and being president of the united states. delivering that 45 minute speech that lays out the predicate for

why him. >> that moment of christopher buckly wrote about years and years ago of a piece of comedy and satire and it was a softwaring in softwarwearing in of donald trump. to pair friraphrase this is a g day for him. everyone laughed around that. this is something that people can possibly foresee. >> it is more than just picturing trump there. i do think and i had mark cuban, the sort of rock on tour owner of the dallas mavericks. for him, donald trump's success means this. it it has broken the mold of presidential candidates of its

o own warts. i think what this candidacy will mean is what will it bring for the future of american politics. but, even the future, does it open the door or does it make it where both famous people or rich people or does it even folks that never thought about engaging in politics thinking, okay, i can do this and i can get involved sort of the same way that donald trump is selling a real estate dream. does it open the door where we see a lot more non traditional and a lot more politically incorrect and a lot more of these things. >> that's what i think this will bring about. >> chuck, finally, the sate of this trump campaign, there is been some changes at the top of the letter head in the last 24 hours. likely, more to come and what about these two venues today.

bismarck and billing of a great part of this country, it is beginning to look a lot like out in the hustling in the general election campaign. >> pretty close. montana is a state that sort of stuck at this plan. for all the lack of discipline that it feels like the trump campaign has sometimes, corey lewandowski who's the campaign manager has been disciplined with the schedule as far as the states travel is concerned. they don't deviate from it. they are sometimes three or four weeks in advance of how they do it. they rarely assort of off the cup as trump is on the stump. they are not off the cup and where he's going to do a rally and things like that. he's a big venue guy and you cannot lineup a venue within a day or two. that part of it, you have to understand. as far as the latest shake up in trump world. it is a shake up that reenforces what we all know as far as those

of us that covers this campaign. donald trump is the campaign manager and the candidate. donald trump is the chief stratecentra gi strategist. higher guns in the political consulting world that could succeed 90% of the time, you are not going to succeed that way in trump world if you try to push trump or change trump in ways that he does not like. that's what we saw there and we are going to continue to see that. trump is his own strategist. nobody is telling him, the smartest thing for you to do when you are in albuquerque is be sure to trash the latina governor while you are there. that'll send a message of strength inside the party. nobody is giving him that advice, he's doing that himself. there is self inflicted wounds,

i believe. at the end of the day, he's calling the shots. >> chuck todd, thank you very much, we are going to keep an eye on this podium here in bismarck. because trump is a taller than average candidate, you can tell a trump podium, the microphone is higher than average. we'll hit a commercial break if he should appear, we'll dive out of it and go right back on the air among those waiting to talk to us, joy reid and our entire reporting team and your coverage continues awaiting the donald trump's comments in business mar bismarck, dakota, right after this. hahaha, what? well we're always looking for developers who are up for big world changing challenges like making planes, trains and hospitals run better. why don't you check your new watch and tell me what time

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clinton on a labor tour this week talking the united food and commercial workers. she tends to get a warm reception in front of organized labor groups. in bismarck, north dakota, a different looking venue, donald trump has landed in bismarck and this room is not too far from where he has landed. what's notable today from hearing of donald trump is that a, it is a press availability, it is one of those rare occasions increasingly rare these days where reporters have to ask questions and get them answered hopefully. b, this comes on the day when this news organization and others have said that because of the movement of unbound delegates, he's over the top. remember that number 1237? we drilled on it all through primary season. by our calculations and a number

of news organizations have broken this as well. he's at 1238. as they say in nascar and horse racing, all results are unofficial. it is unofficial until made official at the gop convention in cleveland. you may ask about the democrats, some news was made as it often is on a late night talk show last night involving the democrats and of all things mr. trump. joy reid is standing by to talk to us about that. "jimmy kimmel" last night and donald trump was the guest and what we took to be a some what serious of a debate. trump in the context of a late night comedy show accepts and says, how much is that going to pay me and his point was a lot of people would watch and a lot of commercial dollars could be

raised, lets give it to a good chair charity. >> viewpoint last night turned off their tv and thinking wow, that could be something. a trump/sanders debate. >> when i saw last night, i thought to myself, for bernie sanders, what about a great idea. he's down to $5 million carbon hands and looking for a june 7th primary in california and not a lot of money left. hillary clinton saying no to a debate which bernie sanders which would help him a lot substituting for a lot of money. she's saying no thank you. if donald trump were to do it, it would be a huge gift to the sanders campaign, it would be putting 10 or $15 million in the bank free advertising and everyone would be talking about it. there would be nothing in it for the hillary clinton campaign to have the person who's not going to be the nominee on getting all that free air time. there would not be much in it

for donald trump either so i think that's why you are seeing his camp says he did not really mean it. >> it is interesting "jimmy kimmel" is the other big show remaining in california so they become the recipients out there to that end. bernie sanders is their guest tonight. it is kind of television diplomacy, we'll see if this idea can sprout a new one, i guess. >> i think you will see more of this is this idea of treating donald trump of a normal and typical republican candidate. not everyone is accepting that. last night there were a couple of guests were supposed to be on kimmel who cancelled because donald trump was there. one of them is a very popular act "the weekend" who says he has no interestins being on the same stage with donald trump. and this comes after this pese

protests that you saw by latinos and activists against donald trump of the way he's treating with color. you will see a resistance to the idea of treating trump as normal. people of color are not going to forget of the things he has said or things he said about muslims or latinos. people are in the going to forget that. >> i am told at this moment in vegas, hillary clinton has turned her attention to donald trump. let's listen in. [ applause ] [ whistling ] >> and i am prouder they over came trump's intimidation

campaign and certified as a union this year. [ applause ] [ cheers ] so to everyone who has faith, hostile management and hostile legislature and a union busting governor, help is on the way. [ cheers ] >> the event of her election. mark is among those standing by. he's cohost with all due respect on "bloomberg television" that airs here on msnbc. this is not his first rodeo. he has covered a bunch of these

and we have been able to watch him on show time as well. i ask the gentleman at the top of 1238 movementtop, what changed if anything today? >> well, it's a historical milestone and it's a reminder of how quickly the republican party's presidential hopes now are being cast on someone who is unlike any republican presidential nominee, really in the history of the country. the unofficial tally. it's nonetheless, a milestone that shows trump now has the convention in his hold. there will be some drama in cleveland to be sure. but the parallel that's important today is hillary clinton is still very much dealing with bernie sanders. if those three big personalities, three subborn people, three proud people, two of them are continuing to fight and one of them now can continue to think about consolidation.

that's adolescence vantage, one of many that trump has. this is a good day for him. >> mark, these two presumptive nominees for their respective parties, people have been saying the highest combined negatives of any modern era election. >> it is. and those numbers are hard particularly since they'll both be battling each other daily now. donald trump drives intensity in the media, in the old media, in the new media. and the clinton folks are now thinking through exactly how to deal with that intensity. whether you go head-on into it, let trump burn himself out. those negatives are likely to stay. i suspect on election day it's going to be a real challenge if these are the two nominees to think about how do you come out of an election where your negatives are high, sometimes higher, when tens of millions of

americans will be stunned and shocked at your election. >> mark, when people meet you, having seen you on television, you're out and about on memorial day weekend, perhaps people who know you and take you aside with that plastics grip on your shoulder and they say, come on, what do you think, could this guy -- this guy could win this whole thing right? >> he could. look, there are a lot of people who are troubled by that. i say to them, he will not win if he does not prove to the american people he's up to the job. there's no doubt he can win. if you look at the desk graphics of the country, he's got a way to go to prove that he can beat her. but this is not a 70-30 proposition for him. it is tighter than that. if he picks a smart running mate, has a good convention, beats her in the first debate, all very much in his control to some extent, then i would make

him the favorite. >> mark, are you among those kind of girding for a different look at the debate when you take the crowd out of the game? when you have a silent gallery, very anti septic look an stage, usual a very conservative choice for moderator. are you among those cautioning that we could see a whole new debate dynamic from him? >> we could. it's going to be a lot of pressure on him. but she's going to be under pressure too. she's never had a one-on-one debate with anyone like donald trump. day to day, they take about his unpredictability. i think it's going to be the most widely watched television show in the history of the planet. that means that there's going to be pressure on both of them. he is -- just be straightforward about it, he is a more

experienced, better television performer than she is. does that mean he'll wib the debate? not necessarily. but he goes into television performances like, say, a television anchor. he knows how to play television. and that's an unpredictable moment. before we get there -- again they're going to be so widely watch. i do think his vice presidential selection and convention will be critical. the bravado of the trump folks who say just let trump be trump and that will be fine. but he needs to show people a presidential side. today's going to be a great example. an opportunity for him now as the presumptive nominee in a numeric way like he's never been to try to continue to reassure people. he will be for change. but he does need to meet a threshold which the clinton people are going to fight to keep him from getting to of acceptabili acceptability, dealing with heads of state.

she has that credential, even for many who don't like her and don't plan to vote for her. today is a moment along the way where he can start to try to reassure people, he will be trump, by we will also be somebody who can be acceptable as commander in chief. >> thanks. you bring us nicely into ben gindburg, the former chancellor for the rnc. he is a partner at jones day, the washington law firm. and throughout this primary season, we've relied on the man i called counselor for his wise counsel through this. he has been through the magic of television counselling his fellow, let's say, establishment republicans on how to live through this era. and ben, vis-a-vis my earlier conversation, there's still a

whole lot of republicans who wake up every day, say it isn't so, say this isn't happening. there's still a lot of people looking for another way. what do you tell that constituency of your party? >> well, in fact, the battle is over. that what donald trump did was clinch the nomination in exactly the same week in may that mitt romney did in 2012. they changed a bunch of rules so that that seems to be the normal time to clinch nominations. donald trump showed us a couple of things in the primaries. number one, he did not run with the orthodoxy of the republican party. and many causes that have been held dear to republicans since the reagan revolution. he managed to find a way to win without taking all those traditional positions. and number two, you -- you have to look at the fact that he had a much leaner, meaner, bare bones campaign organization than

traditional republican campaigns. so now his challenge for the general election -- which is why i think you see a number of republicans getting behind him, yet still a number holding back -- is that the way he communicates in his singular fashion, no other candidate's done that. and the way that the organization is not as built out as other republican campaigns have been at this point is what is surprising as both a tactical and a philosophical basis to still a number of republicans. >> ben, in a town that loves monuments the way washington does, someone could be starting to chisel in granite what you just said. the battle is over. that just came out of the mouth of ben ginsburg. does that mean you have gone through the denial and anger looking glass and you have come through to acceptance?

>> well, i think to think that my friends at msnbc have helped a great deal in that. the electoral reality is pretty stark right now. it is not a republican convention that's going to turn upside down the apple cart. i think what you have seen and are continuing to see a number of people within the republican establishment recognizing that. it's why donald trump could put out that list of donors this week. it's why the continuing discussions with paul ryan are so important. but the reality is, as he goes into cleveland with 1,237 delegates and more, he is going to be the nominee of the party. and that's plain math. >> and let's talk about paul ryan for a moment. he comes to cleveland, you know, second in line in presidential succession. he comes to cleveland as the -- the number one elected republican official. how is he going to thread this

needle? there was a lot of talk about their phone call last night, lot of talk about a possible endorsement from ryan today. they tamped that down yesterday. how does he get there? i mean, his biggest worry is republican majority in the house. >> exactly right. and so i think that from what i've seen, the filter he is looking at this through is how do i keep my republican majority in the house. that is not the committee chairman, by the way. that is the members in vulnerable districts, a dozen, two dozen, three dozen. and the way that the politics play out, in other words how donald trump looks at the top of the ticket, the views that he takes, the temperament he displays is what's going to be most important as i think speaker ryan looks at the preservation of the majority. >> ben, thank you. chris matthews is busting to get in here.

chris, on your broadcast last night -- and thank you for having joy reid and julia reid on last night in the same evening separated by a couple of hours. chris, ben raises this point about not so much committee chairmanships and the whip positions you were talking about earlier, but the most important thing to paul ryan and that is nose counting. who has more, republicans or democrats in the house. >> well, i spent six years of my life knowing the number of 218 which is a majority vote in the house of representatives, as you know, and everything else is nonsense. and 60 votes in the u.s. senate. i had a debate with senator sanders couple months back. what good are all these wonderful proposals if you can't get 60 votes coming out of the senate finance committee? inside the beltway, ultimately, is where the fights are going to occur. mitch mcconnell has fr