>> last word. >> people will look at the totality of these two candidates. they're human beings. both of them have problems. i think the totality of her versus him. >> that was her answer to me. oh yeah, what about him. >> i thought her answer was the right one. >> we'll be back tuesday. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press" on your local station. good evening to you. donald trump is holding rally right now in san diego with thousands of supporters inside the convention center and about a thousands protesters outside. this event is something special. it's just 16 miles away from the u.s.-mexico border. that's the closest donald trump has been to the border since visiting laredo, texas last

summer. there's a large law enforcement presence. there's been a few scattered disruptions inside the event. >> look at those cameras. those blood suckers. they found a protester. thank you, protester. thank you, protester. thank you. get them out. get them out. get them the hell out of here. it's always funny. usually they're just singles. the mom kick them out of house for the week. usually they're singles. you can never hear them. what you hear is my people going get them out. get them out. my people make so much noise. >> there you have it. earlier today trump did announce he would not debate bernie sanders. that's something that had been rumored throughout the last

couple of days. sanders response is what are you afraid of? >> they're incredible people. they're great people. we're going to start very soon, as soon as we get in there, we're going to re-negotiate our trade deals that are killing our country. we're going to re-negotiate with china. we're going to have better relationships than we have right now. we're going to re-negotiate our deals. we're going to re-negotiate everything. everything's up for grabs. wats until y wait until you see the incredible potential this country has when we're not run by people with no common sense, with no business abilities, frankly, with no heart. they have zero heart, and people that are incompetent. wait until you see what we're able to do in fairly quick period of time. i went out, we won new york big. we won everything. we won new york big. originally, and i owe it to them, because drugs are pouring across the border and new

hampshire was my first victory. i love new hampshire. you look at the streams and the beautiful trees and the rivers, new hampshire people, obvious. i love you too. it was my first victory. we won new hampshire. that was supposed to be bush. he spent many times more than me. wouldn't it be nice to hear, as a president, i've spent less money on this campaign than anybody else by far, and i've had the best result by far. isn't that nice? >> we've been listening in there to a little bit of donald trump's rally. nbc is live outside the rally at the convention center where things have been getting heated. what can you tell us? >> reporter: these officers here and some more were up closer to this balcony area. some of the protesters climbed up and tried to get over.

the officers told them to get down. they wouldn't. they started hitting them. some of the protesters started throwing water bottle, silly string and other things at the officers. others started to climb up on the balcony and they hit back. that went on for about a minute or so. then the crowd, who's theme song has been "f donald trump." they started to chant "f donald trump and the police" over and over. since that time nobody has climbed up on the balcony again. we returned to the relative calm that we've had over the past several hours. as we pan across all of these protesters, you can tell there's well over a thousan,00 thousan . several groups have been organizing for several days, coming up marching into this area that's been separated with barricades for protesters. the problem is we always find is that you have pockets of people within those protests. usually not part of the organization that set it up and

want it to be peaceful, who end up causing problems. that's what we saw. >> stay with us here. part of what we know is in preparation for viewers looking at the scene was the so-called free speech zones where police have tried to separate the pro-trump groups from the protesters. you have posted throughout the day and video on twitter of what you've been seeing. talk to us about, also, the issues here. the mexican flag i see flying, and i mentioned this is a significant trump event. it's so close to the border. an area that he doesn't often o go, but he talks a lot about. >> reporter: you're right. this is largely republican area. of course, we're 20 minutes away from the border. if i show you the protesters but you see the officers in is the buffer zone that was supposed to exist between them and the trump supporters. if we swing around, i'm going to

walk right past you, toward the convention center there's still hundreds and thousands of people still in line. this is very tense as it usually is when we're in california, and has it has been in albuquerque and other places closer to the border. that's what we have seen. a part from chicago, really the most intense protest around the country have been those, arizona, new mexico, california. >> with regard to the trump campaign perspective, our own katie tour who follows the campaign, while you're on screen with us we're showing some of the footage you shot earlier in the day. the time lapse footage showing how long the lines are. a lot of interest from people who want to support and see donald trump there as well as this group of protesters. katie said aides say he will be defiant in the face of unrest. can you speak to any of the

rowdiness you're seeing and how the campaign is dealing with us. donald trump said it's great when they throw protesters out of his event. >> reporter: we could expect nothing different from the trump campaign. trump seems to relish this. the clashes, the controversy. we have protesters outside. it doesn't seem to bother the trump campaign. it's almost as if they want it. at the same time i will say that for right after the most intense protest we saw at the beginning of the campaign months ago, the trump camp made a real effort to choose locations in which the protesters wouldn't come up to supporters. they didn't want, i don't think, the fighting. they really started to screen the lines. they have been doing that for many months. they don't want those wearing bernie sanders shirts to get into the rally. they don't want it. at the same time you have the campaign where trump said we

love the protesters. they make it fun. the campaign does try to avoid, at some level, too much confrontation. >> thank you for your reporting. we'll check back in with you. i want to turn to msnbc law enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh and special agent in charge and expert viewers will recognize for talking about these events when they go well and the officers trying to keep the peace and where we see them not go well. in my long range eyewitness view here today, i've watched some of the videos. a lot of this has been peaceful. the signs are aggressive and assertive in their view of criticizing trump. we have seen in a few instances, physical clashes, including some individuals directly making physical contact with the officers, which, of course, is

prohibited. bas walk us through what you have seen. >> a strong showing by the san diego p.d. the chief said we're going to be very strong in there. that's a very big city p.d. i'm been right there at that convention center in san diego. it's a beautiful spot. it's a very strong p.d. they are backed up by the county and state police. they can handle a kind of demonstration. i think you'll see if it gets to any violence, san diego p.d. will move in quickly and try to make the arrest of the people that are actively engaged in the violent act. they want to keep it down early. they're going to do it a little different than albuquerque p.d., but i don't think you can criticize albuquerque p.d. i watched that the other night carefully. they know they'ir city and i thought they were very restrained. there was one arrest. it was one mounted horse, police

horse was hurt, broken window and a police car, minor stuff. nobody was seriously injured or killed. i think albuquerque p.d. read the crowd right, read their city right. used professionalism, restraint. i think they did a great job. i think san diego p.d. will be a little stronger here. they have more activists, a bigger crowd. it's more intense in california at the moment with the issues you've just been discussing. they are handling a little different situation here like jacob said on the border. it's a little different and a little stronger than the albuquerque event. >> where does this rank in your view compared to other campaign cycles and the frequency that we see the need to take security measures outside of events? >> you know, i can't help but go back when i was a young agent and officer came on in the '70s. i can't help but go back to the

'70s. in '68, everything was so intense. everybody was so intense. the '70s when arthur brimmer shot wallace and the protests and the demonstrations and anti-war. this really has a feel for that error. it's challenging for policing going forward and challenges for all of us. i'm hoping there's no violence. it looks like this will go city to city and right through the conventions with big demonstrations. people polar opposites on these issues. let's hope they can be peaceful. >> law enforcement analyst, jim cavanaugh, thank you. we have heard from donald trump and shown some of the protest video. we want to go directly in and speak to the head of the san diego county democratic party, which is one of the groups coordinated these protests. let me ask you directly, for folks watching directly at home,

whether they agree with your goals or not in the election, what are you trying to convey through organizing these protests today? >> first of all, let me say that everything that we've done, we have emphasized this is a peaceful protest. our goal is to raise our voices and challenge donald trump. he has a lot of divisive and hateful rhetoric. he has called out latinos and mexico. he has ridiculed leaders. he's lied about how he supports veterans. if we don't stand up and call him out and hold him accountable, then we're not doing our job. we do encourage people to make their voices heard at the ballot box and vote. i want you to know that san diego has twice as many democrats in the city as republicans. san diego has changed. his messages are not welcome here. we have the busiest border crossing in the country right here. we have very close relationships with our neighbor in mexico in many different ways.

we have a very large latino population who feels they have been called rapists and criminals and they don't appreciate that. they're not going to stand for him coming here without hearing their voices. >> you are a part of the democratic party operations there and you mentioned some of the gains of that party. nothing new about the political party's disagreeing in a general election. have you organized these kind of protests against other republican nominees or is there something extra in your view that's merited given the way donald trump is campaigning? >> this is the largest protests that i've seen democrats organize and for this race we also had people holding signs and making their voices heard when cruz came to town about a month or so ago, and when alec came to town which is a conservative legislative

organization for condition sese elected officials all over the country. we didn't approve of it. we are active in san diego. we don't have a history of violence here. >> all right. thank you for joining us and sharing some of your message and perspective with us. we appreciate that. up ahead, we'll continue to keep a close eye on this rally. donald trump in san diego close to the border and the protests. a lot of other news, the democratic fight for votes also on in california. hillary clinton and bernie sanders in the state today, that's straight ahead. (war drums beating)

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i'm late for an important function. compare.com. saving humanity from high insurance rates. because the system is rigged against bernie. you ever notice he win, he wins, he wins. then you watch the pundits, these guys, the dishonest ones. they sit around, he can't win because the system's rigged. >> donald trump moments ago.

we learned there will be no debate between him and bernie sanders. a few hours ago the trump campaign issued this statement calling the nominating process rig and saying it was inappropriate for trump to debate sanders since he's unlikely to be the nominee. this was trump just about 24 hours ago. >> i'd love to debate bernie. he's a dream. i think it would get very high ratings. it should be in a big arena somewhere. we could have a lot of fun with it. i would love to debate bernie. i would love. >> he would love to, but he's not going to. trump's about face appeared to leave bernie sanders confused. >> i heard he was going to debate me, and i heard he was not going to debate me. i heard he was going to debate me and now you're saying he's not going to debate me. i hope that he changes his mind again. he's a bully. he's a big, tough guy. what are you afraid of? >> that's the question.

what's he afraid of? looks beautiful. i hope you're having a good time between all the work. what are your thoughts here on the bernie sanders rebuttal and what it looks like out there? >> i don't know. dwro do you think he's trying to get under donald trump's skin a little bit? his campaign put out a state reading this part there's a reason why every national and statewide poll i'm defeating donald trump. there's a reason for the reality. american people should be able to see it up front in a good debate in a clash of ideas. obviously, he's issuing challenge there. this is something that would benefit bernie sanders. arguably it already has. we're in this huge state. he spent a million and a half dollars on advertising, but that's really a drop in the bucket when you consider the number of media markets here. he's on this barn storming tour.

yesterday a couple of stops. almost 15,000 people. he's headed to his second stop already today. he's going to be going all through the weekend campaigning. he'll spend the vast majority of his time here. obviously, donald trump knew that was part of what he was doing. he was going after hillary clinton. he was giving a bit of a shove to her, and in the process bernie sanders found himself getting this free media. the question really becomes why are all these thousands of people continuing to come out to these events here in california. i talked to some folks at the last stop which was about 45 minutes south of los angeles. take a listen to what people told me when i asked whether or not if bernie is not the nominee, would you vote for hillary clinton? >> there's no way i want donald trump in there but i'm a bernie or bust. i'm not for hillary either. >> if she's the nominee, you

won't vote for her? >> i won't. i'm bernie or bust. >> i'm absolutely never hillary. i'm bernie or bust. >> hillary is the nominee, will you vote for her? >> i have to vote for her. i want bernie in there. he's my primary choice. we have to push hillary. keep pushing her to the left, if possible. >> look, the clinton campaign knows this is major challenge for them winning over some of these die hard bernie sanders fans. a lot of new people who came into the process. young women who have voted in overwhelming numbers for bernie sanders. anybody under 30, a woman, so far who has voted in one of these primaries by more than a 20-point margin they have gone for bernie sanders. that's the challenge that's facing hillary clinton and why you see her not only up on the air, but she's been going back and forth doing a lot of events something i don't think her

campaign planned for her to do. they're having to answer in kind. >> the other question i want to ask is there's been more talk object east and out in washington, d.c. about the platform committee and other ways that bernie supporters might push hillary to the left. they named people of that committee this week. some of them far more progressive people feel than hillary has been. any of that exciting folks on the ground or those two separate conversations from what you have seen in your reporting? >> what's interesting to me is it's hard to engage these really serious bernie supporters. somebody who takes a day off of work, half day off, come out to an event and stand in line. it's hard to engage them in a conversation about you understand numbers. hillary clinton is going to be the nominee. they're really looking at this short term process. having said that, i sat down with a group of young women, exactly that target that hillary clinton is going for.

they are looking for him to continue to move her to the left. they think this is all part of the process. these people he wants to get on the various committees for the convention. whatever speaking slot he might get. this is all part of the process of moving hillary clinton to the left. i did think it was interesting when i spoke to this group of young women, some of whom were clinton supporters and disagreed on a lot of different things. they all thought a really strong running mate would be elizabeth warren. i think that's part of the conversation. right now if you're a die hard bernie supporter, you're still looking and hoping for some kind of miracle, at the very least a win here where he's brought the race down to two points. that gives him more leverage going into that convention. >> thank you. i don't know you don't give the campaign's advice but if they need to do a wind energy event, you've clearly got a good spot out there. stay safe on the trail.

>> not bad. we turn now to our panel. hello, everybody. i'll start with you since you've been watching this in our studio. anyone that would have predicted this year would have gotten it wrong. how much of this will start affecting the general election where hillary clinton is in what feels like a two-front war? >> i've been following bernie sanders since january. i've gone to hundreds of these events. when i started in january, i would talk to people about whether they would vote for hillary clinton. at that time, that question wasn't met with real anger. t it was okay, if she's the

nominee, i'll vote for her. people are visibly now more angry. i wrote a story about how people are hope that fbi investigation takes her down. i quoted a man who said i would rather have donald trump as my president than hillary clinton saying he felt like donald trump would audit the federal government. he might close down the banks. i think a lot of people are really, really angry at that. some supporters say they are worried about this trend that hillary could be hurt in the general election. one guy said it's like chopping off your nose despite your face. if you love bernie and his ideas and you say i'm going to stay home or vote for donald trump, that's hurting the party. this idea that hillary clinton used to be the person that is closer to bernie, that's kind of

gone. people are a lot angrier. >> there's often efforts to get unity going and repair and the party sooner than later. one difference is bernie sanders pent the bulk of his career not as a member of the democratic party but more grudgingly willing to caucus with them. there is this feeling that comes from his credible record, it's not only about the health of the democratic party. he's never believed that to begin that. >> i think you're right. the only real difference is we're only beginning to appreciate is bernie sanders, unlike hillary clinton in 2008 when she was going to run again or that door was open for her to run again, bernie sanders, this is the last hoorah for him. he's 74 years old. he isn't going to run again in four years. i think that means why not go out with guns ablazing. that seems to be exactly what

he's doing. he had no idea he could lead this kind of movement and have this popularity. i think that's very difficult to let go. he has no incentive to let that go. >> you and i have talked about this before, i would never speculate or read into someone's brain. just kidding. i will do that. you get the feeling that, yeah, bernie sanders isn't just loving some of this, i get the feeling he's going look at all these people. look at this money. i'm out raising hillary clinton. i should have started doing this eight years ago. >> look at all this money.

quiet frankly, he should have started doing it the moment he walked into congress and made some ties with other communities that did never responded to him. had they responded differently, he would be in a much closer position with hillary clinton. when you look at the polls in california and how they have changed in the last month. he's gone from a 10 to 15-point deficit with clinton to being neck and neck with her. he could close this primary season out. still lose but win california. that is breathtaking. that speaks to something that he certainly, a year ago had no idea that he could be in charge of and ten years ago had no idea he would be ahead of. i think he and his supporters really rightfully think, we do deserve a pretty loud voice at the convention. i think it's wonderful how the

democratic convention will be exciting. we had thought it would be a little bit duller than the republican one. >> you're our west side correspondent. what do you see? >> one of the bernie or bust people even remotely compare to the way those pumas and all the clinton folk who is said they would never vote for barack obama because they didn't like the way she was treated and the whole chaos with florida and michigan's delegates not being counted because they broken the rules, that was way nastier than any of this. we have data which was at the end of the march, found that eight in ten bernie sanders supporters think that hillary clinton will be the next president, and they're okay with that. we're going to be out in field now and releasing a poll next weekend and it's possible the

numbers are shifted. it's possible that sanders would win in california. there's other polling that shows clinton still with a large lead, and she does have her supporters are quieter. that's one thing we have really found. california has never played such a decisive role before. we've had floods of new voters registering. >> you talk about the supporters. his supporters know what this is about. you can think of primary battles, gore-bradley, where it was really hard to figure out. the howard dean primary campaign and the barack obama campaign in '08, iraq war. this is about wall street and about a democratic party that many people feel has failed just about as much, maybe a tiny bit less, than the republican party to address wall street taking over the financial system, which is how people have to deal with

jobs, savings, life and loans and the political system with the inflow of money. you go to a bernie rally, they all know that. they're look at hillary clinton, whether or not there's a political calculation saying she's not with us on that. >> that's exactly what they are saying. when i interview people, if they say they don't want to vote for her and say i don't trust her. they bring up those speeches with goldman sachs and the fact her donors are coming from wall street and she's a continuation of this broken democratic party that's never really helped the middle class. in some ways they kind of echo bernie sanders and what he's saying. bernie supporters are saying if bernie asked me to vote for hillary clinton, i wouldn't do that either. one of the things that's interesting to talk about is he was kind of surprised by his own success. i wrote a story that said he was surprised by his own success and

now he's really eager to make it last. he didn't really go out and grass roots build the crowds. some of this happened organically which means he has some sway with these people but if he didn't become the nominee, he can't wave a wand and say forget all the stuff i said about hillary clinton, we should all back her. that's a lot harder to do when you have people focused on the issues. she's not going to dissolve her super pac in the general election and say forget it. i'm going to give that up. she can't take back some of these ties to wall street. >> i was going to say it's no accident that both trump and sanders use words like the system is rigged. that feeling that you've just described there. people are really frustrated with how it seems the people at the top are getti inting ahead what they have seen and the way the economy might be rebounding but people say their own personal situation hasn't gotten much better. that's a message that's resonating. it's no accident that trump

getting back to the should they debate or not question from the beginning of this hour. trump has an incentive to make sure that bernie sanders stays in the headline. the fewer votes clinton gets, the better for him in november. it's again, very similar to 2008 when you had republicans urging people to vote in operation chaos and vote for hillary clinton as clinton and obama were squaring off, and it was coming down to the wire. one thing i would say just cheer leading for democracy, it's cool we had two giant race, 2008 and now, where things have gone to the very last contest. people in states that don't usually matter are enjoying the fact they have a say here. we might have to have some reform to be more inclusive of all states. >> it doesn't need to be cut off early. the race is almost over. this segment is almost over.

one final thought. >> one thing about '08 and the pumas there when you talk about the difference between whether or not the party will come back around and unify around hillary clinton, these sapnders voters are not democrats. in '08, it was obama versus clinton. you shouldn't gloss over the fact that you're talking about reaching out to many sanders supporters who don't see themselves as democrats and aren't going to be quite as eager or feel like they need to fall in line to a thing they're not part of. >> all right. thank you for joining us. our other two are going to remain. we'll talk more after the break. momenting ago donald trump was wrapping up that rally in san diego. we'll continue to monitor the big protests outside the venue. up next, a former gop governor and a former fugitive walk into a convention.

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welcome back. we continue to track events in california. donald trump walked off stage wrapping up that rally. outside the venue there's

ongoing protests. at one point things did get heated. we'll have a bit more on that ahead. libertarians are gathering in florida to nominate their third party presidential candidate. we caught up with him and johnson compared donald trump's immigration plans to nazi germany. >> the rounding up of 11 million illegal immigrants. it is a feeling that i share in a state like new mexico where 50% of the population is hispanic. are not all hispanics subject to potentially having their doors knocked on and broken into it. >> so it's a nazi feel? >> in my opinion, yes. >> the koch brothers may still be in play to support a third party presidential candidate. >> i've not talked to them directly, but i think they're smart businessmen who have seen

what the return on investment is for political investment in the old parties, and it's not that good. with the libertarian party you have the opportunity to really change american politics for a lot less money. as businessmen, investing in the libertarian ticket makes good sense. >> are you going with that message? >> yes. >> he says yes. msnbc doing that convention. the koch brothers flat out deny any involvement with msnbc. what are you learning out there? >> this weekend the libertarian party will select their nominee. they're on the ballot in 32 states already. they're on pace to be in all 50

states. the leading candidate, gary johnson and bill weld. they are popular guys. if you don't like donald trump but you want to balance budgets, you might want to go to the libertarian side. gary johnson vetoed 750 spending bills while he was governor. he is a hawk. i've been talking to people and met numerous republicans who are crossing over. the democratic side, what will attract hillary voters or bernie voters, bring them over to the libertarian cause. how about legalized marijuana? gary johnson the only potential significant presidential candidate to be a medicinal marijuana user. overall, it's the younger vote. the libertarian vote does well with younger voters. if you look at the polls, gary johnson in a head to head match up with hillary clinton and donald trump polling at about

10%. that's a big enough number to eclipse a popular vote in the last four presidential elections. will they win in 2016, no, i don't think so. are they setting themselves up to be a player and have an influence? absolutely, 100%. they could be setting themselves up for a real fracturing. very exciting. the people here excited. it's very interesting to cover. it will be a long weekend, but fascinating. >> there's a lot of talk from the sort of chattering class and politicos about, well, what would happen to people who are conservatively minded but can't stomach donald trump. are you seeing that an explicit focus on the ground or is this more about being big l first, libertarian and those political arguments second? >> the never trump, no trump contingency could become the yes libertarian club, absolutely. i met a doctor from the orlando

area, six weeks ago he was a republican. when donald trump cinched up the nomination he walked right up to the libertarian side. another voter, ten days ago, he was a republican, when donald trump scinched up the nominatio, he walked over to the libertarian side. it's happening right here this weekend and it will be fascinating to see what influence it has come november. >> in politics, sometimes there's more than two sides to the story. you have at least a third side on this race. after the break we'll lahead bak to our team on the ground. protests continuing outside. ♪ ah, my poor mouth breather. allergies? stuffy nose? can't sleep? enough. take that. a breathe right nasal strip of course. imagine just put one on and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38%

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you know, build the wall. >> donald trump there in san diego. that was moments ago talking about one of his most controversial ideas, building wall. he wrapped up his speech. protests continuing. nbc katie tour has been on the scene and travels with donald trump. i don't know how familiar you are with the jewish holiday of passover. we say why is this night different from all other nights. i wonder as a trump traveling reporter, why is this day different from the others? >> i don't think anyone will be happy with that comparison. this day is different from all other days in the trump protest land because he's 20 miles from the mexican boardrder. it's the closest he's been to mexico sincing with in laredo, texas. this is the first time he's coming that close. it's also a holiday weekend. a number of folks are out here

because they have started their holiday weekend a little early. i'd love to show you the extent of the protest. i can't right now. the majority of people, not the majority, but quite a few people are holding signs with expletives on them. those signs are not appropriate for television. a few minutes ago a lot more rowdy than it is right now. a number of these protests, not a number, a few of these protesters tried to storm the barricades, clash with police. endeding up gettingti intin int by officers. there's also swat police holding the line at the convention center and back there where you see the crowd moving a bit. that's where supporters are being filed out from the rally. there were 10,000 people inside in order to keep the peace and avoid confrontations. they are filing them out in the

back end to keep them away from the protesters. they don't want to see another melee like they saw in albuquerque, another melee like in chicago. >> thank you for that 360-degree view. we appreciate it. catch up with you again. still ahead, one of donald trump's most out spoken critics is getting on board. what changed marco rubio's mind? what does it say about the republican party heading into this november? that's straight ahead. s, every time i drive. ...want my number? and cash back for driving safe. and the power to automatically find your car... i see you car! and i got the power to know who's coming and when if i break down. ...you must be gerry. hey... in means getting more from your car insurance with the all-powerful drivewise app. it's good to be in, good hands.

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rubio was calling donald trump a con artist. today in a tweet rubio explained why he will, after all that, vote for trump. i won't for clinton. after years of asking people to vote, i won't abstain. he says he might play a role at the convention. >> my sense is i'm going to go to the convention. i don't know if i'll have a role but i have a lot of people that are supporters. i want to be helpful. i don't want to be harmful because i don't want hillary clinton to be president. >> a conservative writes that rubio's change of heart shows he doesn't have the courage to stand up for his stated conventions. he has his finger to the wind. end quote. you look at this, you say, there is a difference between the vigorous competition in a primary and the concern by

conservatives that donald trump wasn't one of them. this was a hijacking to use rubio's term, a con man. what does it tell us that all of this was for naught? >> it tells us that marco rubio and a lot of republicans are terrified of hillary clinton becoming president. if they want to stop her, they know the only way to do that is to back donald trump. i think a lot of them are grumbling that they have to get behind this man. i think a lot of his policies are not in line with the republican party that they wanted to happen at the convention. if it's between hillary clinton and donald trump, you're seeing all these people who had real disdain for donald trump, lining up behind him. the interesting thing is whether that will happen on the democratic side, whether or not we'll see that. >> on the republican side you say not everyone is doing it this way. even if marco rubio feels this is his necessary political step, on the politics there's not

unity. ted cruz is taking a very different approach. >> yeah, he sure is. still making sure he has a full slate of delegate who is are available at the convention should anything go wrong. it's about self-preservation. marco rubio may be done with politics. it's possible, but somebody that runs for president clearly wants to be president. he's young enough and had enough of a fan base, although, as we know he did not perform all that well in those primaries. his campaign, i will say, was a little schizophrenic. he ran i'm above that and going to speak in better tones for a long time and suddenly he went into the gutter with trump and that's when he started performing more poorly. it's not a huge surprise. ultimately, the majority of republican officials are either going to say that they stand with trump or they're going to vote for him privately. the convention is an interesting question because it is platform. we know it's going to get a lot of television viewership with

indications about how much the debates got watched. probably a lot of people will watch this. if you're an opportunistic politician who wants to make sure your message is heard by millions of people nationally, of course you'll show up. we're not talking about the veep stakes yet. anybody who says they think they know who will be vice president, that's silly. we don't know. we can make educated guesses and talk about statistics. it's probably not going to be marco rubio. >> some of it is like the joker said in batman, people are only as good as their allowed to be. ted cruz has more political power and won his home state. marco rubio didn't. he lost to trump. trump's not just a national figure, he's an intimidating factor in his home state. we're going to leave it there. thanks for joining us for the hour. we have a lot more ahead. i'm signing off. have a great memorial day weekend. "hardball" is next. ...gas, bloating?

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border war. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews this washington. trump temp has roared into san diego today bringing thousands of protesters along with it. you're looking at protesters where donald trump wrapped up his rally. police shut streets and attempted to separate trump supporters from his detractors but