border war. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews this washington. trump temp has roared into san diego today bringing thousands of protesters along with it. you're looking at protesters where donald trump wrapped up his rally. police shut streets and attempted to separate trump supporters from his detractors but there were clashes like this

one between protesters and the police. police begun making arrests. more than 10,000 people packed into the auditorium and the line to get in stretched for blocks. trump told the crowd he was going to build the wall between united states and mexico. he also said he was going to do great with latinos and african-americans. let's watch that. >> we're going to build the wall. we're going to build the wall. we're going to build the walls. l latinos for trump. i love you. you know -- build the wall. we're going to do great with the latinos. i'm bringing back jobs. the latinos, african-americans, we're doing great with african-americans. they want jobs. we're losing our jobs to everybody. i started talking about illegal immigration, tremendous problem. i don't think this would be a problem that would even be

discussed, frankly, if we didn't do it and put it as part of our campaign. >> nbc katie tour is in san diego and i'm joined by joy reid. thank you for joining us. we start with the reporters. i'm now hearing feedback. i just love the hear it. that echo not with standing. let's talk about this issue. the big crowd, how would you rate trump's crowd today? >> unfortunately, i'm going to guess that you stopped talking because i can't hear you any longer. here's what's going on right now. there are thousands of protesters that are here. the police were trying to keep the trump supporters separate from the protesters. by doing that they made the trump supporters, 10,000 of them inside, file out the back door of the convention center. a number of trump supporters

went all the way around into the gaslight district to where the protesters are. we saw a number of fights break out. punches being thrown, arrests being made. thousands of protesters here. many of them peaceful. some here to look for a fight. some tried to breakthrough barricades to confront cops. they have riot police here. they have swat police who had been lining the convention center. many of those swat police are still there, but a number of other high tactical police down in the melee, itself, trying to keep order. again, chris, what they were trying to do here is trying to keep the supporters of donald trump and the protesters separate. most of the time when there's an issue, it's when the two sides come together. they tried slightly successful, slightly unsuccessful, we'll see

if anything else happens as this day unfolds. back to you. >> you know, it's been called a clash. i guess i use this word too. i'm looking at police in a stationary position and people throwing stuff at them. is that a clash? can you hear me, katie? let's go to jacob. we'll get better sound equipment here. the protesters want to get to the trump people and the police are trying to do their job and keeping them from doing so. i don't see that as a clash. i see somebody doing their job, but go on. sg >> we see this almost every time it gets really bad. the protesters stick around through the rally and the trump supporters that you'll see right here are let out. usually by another way. then the protesters who are still around, usually the ones more prone to want to pick a

fight are the ones over here trying try ing to find the supporters. we had three people walk past us in handcuffs. as you're going to see here, you have more protesters who are now crossing the street. they are trying to get over to the trump supporters. best laid plans. san diego police has been really on top of this with the barricades and the buffer zones, 100, 200 feet. this is what really can't be controlled. it's after everything is over, and the trump supporters and protester go separate ways and try to meet somewhere else. that's when the clashes happen. that's what we saw in albuquerque and chicago and a lot of areas. it's best laid plans, they work until after the rally is finished. >> you've been great at this. your reporting has been great. have you been able to hear from any of the individual -- i mean a crowd is made up of individual. there's individual people in that crowd.

have any of them told you they don't like the bad trash talk from trump about rapist, they don't like the wall talk? what is it they don't like? they don't like the deportations probably. >> the wall is one of the big issues. we're 20 minutes away from the border. in albuquerque that was the big issue as well. that gets at them. we found it here. once the organized protesters came, once they left, what we started to see were those who were angry or stick around. they shouted f the police. we saw in the video earlier, it was almost as soon as as the organized protestered left, we saw the angry ones climb up to get past police.

that's when they were hit with the baton and the entire crowd turned on the police and started to shout "f the police." let's turn over here. you're seeing some trump supporters on the left side. on the right side, you're going to see the trump protesters. this happened in times. the barricades are put in place. it works for hours and after the rally they find way to meet each other. >> we're hearing usa from people taking the conservative view, let's put it that way. the ones with the u.s. flags. looks like they want to stick around and taunt a bit too, the pro-trump people. is that going on as well? >> it's very hard to hear your

questions. you're looking at the trump supporters in the "make america great again" hats. they are very excited. they're eager to talk about protesters. a lot of time trump talks about the protesters in the rally. they are excited when they come here. there are no police officers in between. there's no buffer zone in between the trump supporters and the protesters. again, this is where it gets messy. >> yeah. take care of yourself there. we'll be back to you in a minute. joy reid, what do you see here? what does it mean to you? >> i think this is the shape of things to come. i think we're going to have a long, hot summer leading into a fall campaign that's going to break down along this very fault

line. immigration was the trump war against the republican party and republican elites. it was the straw that broke the camel's back in return of the bargain republican elites have made with working class white voters. you give us your votes, we'll get low taxes for yourselves and deregulation. we'll see we're with you on prayer in school, religion. when it came to immigration reform, something george w. bush wanted to do and the republican national committee saw as a way to expand the republican electorate byli bringing in latino's, trump ran into that breach. this is the fundamental issue that animates support for trump. this idea that we're taking this country from them. >> who else is stopping illegal immigration? who else is doing anything to

stop illegal immigration? anywhere to stop it? >> net migration from mexico -- >> i know the arguments. that's not an answer though. what in the law, who is coming up with way to enforcing the law? is anybody? >> i think if you ask advocates for the dreamers, they would point a at the white house and say the obama administration, which has had more deportations than george w. bush ever did. they've been very aggressive about deporting people from the country. the administration, right now, has been the sort of tip of the spear of being extremely aggressive. in addition to the fact the economics has reduced migration to zero, i think a lot of younger activists are angry at the obama administration. >> no one has come up with a

connection of the law we pass and enforcement. i don't hear democrats or progressives talking about enforcement for any kind of law no matter how liberal. you can't have a legislation in washington that's controlling the country, representing the people that can't seem to pass any law on immigration they're willing to enforce. >> the reality is democrats did get a law through. you have a bill that the republican house of representatives -- >> what did that do to stop illegal immigration? would that have stopped illegal immigration? >> a lot of advocates for the dreamers feel the law was too heavy on enforcement and that the balance of enforcement versus admittance was weighted on the side too much of punishment. some tried to get the law passed but republicans wouldn't allow it. they won't allow immigration

reform to get through the senate and house. they won't allow it. >> i've heard the word reform all my life and i'm skeptical whether it means fix the problem if you think there's a problem. ann, i think there's a disagreement here. it's pretty profound between people who think illegal immigration is a problem and those who don't. i don't hear democrats out beating the drum to fix a problem of illegal immigration. i don't hear republicans stopping illegal hiring for one second or one cent. >> no. you just had it exactly right. who are the other republican who is want to enforce laws that were passed and on the books? there's one in the senate, jeff sessions. there's about five in the house, and that's pretty much it. you have 100% of democrats and 95% of republican who is are indignant that the public wants written federal laws on the books enforced. that's some sort of extremist

position. okay. if you want open borders, pass a law for open borders. in fact, both republicans and democrats, have contrived, have gotten together and tried to pass amnesties three times in the last ten years. at least twice being supported by the president and the majority party in both houses. how did it get shut down, by the american people rising up in a rage. the unfortunate thing about these protester are showing, which really do make me so angry because there are 10,000 people inside the stadium tonight. the reports are it was one of the most diverse crowds anyone has ever seen. you have mchinese with signs saying trump. you call the trump supporters

the americans. -- >> that was a slip. first of all, that was a slip. i was looking at the american flags against the mexican flags. it was a slip. >> they are standing for being americans whether they're mandarin -- >> they wouldn't be out prote protesting. >> the ones inside think of themselves as americans and want the laws enforced. >> you caught it. it was a slip. it wasn't intentional. i can tell you. what are we doing? what's going on right now, katie? >> right now right in this melee, this crowd right now. there's two people who are going at it debating the merits of the wall. what you have is the protesters on this side and the donald trump supporters on the other side. there's a confederate flag as well as some american flags and mexican flags here.

this scene has been playing out in city across city. you might think back that donald trump campaign would be unnerved by this. the reality is when i've had private conversations with a number of their aides, they say this only helps their cause. it only helps the message. these images gird they're supporters and make his supporters like him more. they feel he's being standing up for their rights instead of backing down to what they call pc culture. right now we have riot police who are trying to move the line. they have their batons out and trying to push the protesters back. it's not working well. >> we're going to keep covering this. i hope it doesn't get any worse. it's terrible. >> right this way. >> confederate flags, mexican flags. i'm going to stick with there.

jacob, are you there? is the sound working with you? we can't get to jacob. joy, your thoughts here about this. i never thought the mexican flag was a good public relations move by the protesters. your thoughts. >> i think ann really sort of got to it. a person who was a trump supporter land locked in indiana or in west virginia is not concerned about mexican migrants pouring over the southern border. that isn't the point. it's a symbol for a larger context which is what i call demographic panic. this notion that they are taking away the country from us end scare quotes. there's an ethnic war of people who consider themselves more legitimately america. this is old america versus new america. >> you think that true -- >> i do.

>> let's try the law question. people been here a generation or two illegally even if their parents came not that way. do you think people don't think of them as americans? >> i do. if you look at polling of trump supporters, they overestimate the percentage of hispanics in the country illegally. they think it's like 70% when it's like 15%. they think people who are hispanic heritage of being ill legitimately in the country. >> they're voting. that can't be the case. >> they believe if they are voting, they voting illegally and sneaking into the polls and violating some sort of compact with america. the younger generations are more and the more non-white. illegal immigration, unlawful migration is a symbol for demographic panic.

that's what donald trump is stoking. >> i apologize for that to everybody. i mean it. >> it isn't. as i told you. they have mandarins in the audience. >> i didn't see all those. >> asian americans. it's called asian americans. it's not mandarin. >> it has nothing to do with demographics. >> your throw back language. it's not 1913. >> any way. it has nothing to do with demographics. it has to do with if you're here legally or illegally. whether the laws on the books are going to be enforced. we're having an invasion of people across the southern border. >> if your default of discussionidiscussio discussioning asian americans, we're not bringing back archaic language. >> you're not going to police my

language. they are mandarins. it's written in mandarin. >> my thanks. coming up, the democrat play book. donald trump has defied all expectations so far. he's also brought together democrats in the fight against him. how did democrats like hillary clinton, barack obama unite a winning strategy against trump? that's going to be something. on the eve of this memorial day weekend, i'm going to speak with vietnam vet as rolling thunder rolls into the capitol around me. also talk about their invited guests. his name is donald trump. we've got the hardball round table coming here. they'll tell me something i don't know this friday evening. let me finish by paying tribute to a hero of the equality movement. this is hardball, the place for politics. home, car, life insurance obviously, ohhh...

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marco rubio has emerged from hibernation. he's vowed to do all he can to prevent hillary clinton from becoming president. he tweeted, in florida only two legitimate candidates on the t ballot in november. i won't for clinton. after years of asking people to vote, i won't abstain. i'll do what i can to prevent it. as far as his political future goes, he says he doesn't expect to run for re-election in what could become a vulnerable gop senate seat. we'll be right back. ♪

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it was bad enough when he started his campaign in his very first hour criticizing and insulting immigrants. you know. he called immigrants rapists, murders, criminals. it was disgraceful. then he went onto insult women,

insu insult john mccain, make fun of a man with a disability. there's nobody left by the time he gets finished. >> welcome back to hardball. that was hillary clinton last night in california blasting donald trump who she hopes to face in the general election. she must first finish off bernie sanders. what's happening? you're not where the action is right now. awful stuff going on in san diego right now. >> i know. i'm just hanging out over the pacific ocean. i'm listening to what's going on there. i'm thinking we thought the democrats had a lot going on, and to be fair, they do. the last 24 hours have been dominated by this back and forth over whether or not bernie sanders would debate donald trump. they were talking about the

biggest stadium in california and getting the networks to pay millions of dollars. how many millions of people would watch it. would it be the biggest debate in the history of debates? in the end after saying he would then he wouldn't and then he would and wouldn't. donald trump says it looks like bernie sanders is in second place. i'm not going to debate the second place person. what it did do was tweak hill clinton at a time that was once a double digit lead in california has dwindled to within the margin of error, two and three points apart. in the end, you know what the numbers are. this isn't going to change the o outcome of this, it will give bernie sanders more momentum going into that convention. he's already won the delegates on the platform drafting committee. they want more. when i say they, his supporters. they want him to continue to

push. push hillary clinton to the left. they have some issues that are key for them. things like the $15 minimum wage. this is really a fight here. they're both on television. both of them are having all these events. think thiey think bernie sander could have had 250,000 people to events here in california. >> right there on the water. what a shot. thank you for that reporting. assuming she will be the democratic nominee, hillary clinton is throwing everything she has at donald trump already. will any of these attacks stick. okay. here we go. bob, donald trump goes after hillary clinton on everything. he's after vince foster, accusing them of mayhem.

everything he throws at her, and it keeps her busy. i guess that's her strategy. just have her always on defense. >> she's not on defense. i think she's doing a good job of going after him. she wants define him going into the general election. he's helping but what he says at all these rallies. i do hope they supplement this with real positive advertising campaign for her before the convention. she needs to reconnect with people. they need to have a better understanding of her. in the acceptance speech, which is the only unmediated communication that's watched by tens of millions of people, she needs to deal with the stereotypes against her by demonstrating leadership, empathy and connecting with people. >> how about the trustworthiness one? would you take that on? >> you can't address trustworthy by saying i'm trustworthy.

you have to demonstrate it. if people see her and they believe her, they believe she means what she says, that will begin to change that number. al gore moved about 17 points in an acceptance speech in 47 minutes in 2000. i think that's the challenge she faces. >> what do you think of this? you haven't been on lately. hillary clinton is running for the nomination. looks like bernie sanders could knock her off in california. she would win the last round. it's like the war of 1812. the last battle comes after the war is decided. it's not going to be clear cut at all. >> no. bernie sanders taking california. that's a big chunk of delegates. it's winner take off there. he could nearly catch her. i haven't done the math just recently, but he can nearly catch her this terms of pledge delegates. she needs to be pivoting towards trump. she's still the presumptive

nominee. she needs bernie sanders supporters to be on board with her. she can't waste her time attacking bernie sanders. she has to play nice with him. elizabeth warren, the possibilities of her as a v.p. choice would be very pleasing to the sanders supporters. she's been doing a great job going after trump on twitter. >> that's the great question. i watched the 2000 race you mentioned and i watched ralph nader. gore had to move over to the left to catch him. he got him down but at the cost of moving away from the center, can hillary clinton risk going over to the left to try to match bernie? >> i don't think in 2000 we moved to the left. we went after nader. >> you joined him in his

critique of the corporate american. >> no. gore had his own critique of what was going on. he wasn't repeating what nader said. i think there's basis for sanders and clinton to get together. i think it involves a reform of the nominating process and platform accommodations. in new york, she endorsed the 15-dollar an hour minimum wage. i don't think this will be as tough as we make it out to be. i think he's going to come on board. he said she's clearly better than donald trump. i think he will help to bring his people around just as she helped to bring her people around in 2008. >> won't be as tough as we commentators. i'm saying it will be tough so the "we" doesn't really apply. what do you mean by that "we." it means i'm wrong, and you're right is what you're really saying. >> the media love the fight. >> stop talking about media.

you're on the air as a commentator. you're one of them. >> i'm commenting on the media. ron's right about the potential power of elizabeth warren. i think her appeal goes across the board. >> you think it's a good ticket? >> i do and very a variety of reasons. i think elizabeth warren is strong. the danger to clinton is being overshadowed. them on the same ticket pushes all of donald trump's buttons. he's going to be going up against two tough women who can take him apart in a debate. either one of them could. >> with carly fiorina for secretary of commerce. thank you. have a good memorial day. thank you. coming up, marking memorial day. we honor those who died for our

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with $500 memorial day bonus cash. where can i buy it? sign me up! shop your local nissan store and choosenissan.com today. ♪ that's memorial bridge cross for california. that's the sound of rolling thunder rolling into washington last year. nearly 19,000 bikers attended bringing the crowd total to over a million people. the vent that's been held every memorial day weekend for nearly 30 years now as a tribute to prisoners of war, basically in vietnam. this year donald trump will be in attendance where he's set to speak here in washington on the mall. what's the message, sir?

i mean it's fun. everybody comes to town here. >> yeah. through the years our government has constantly told us that anybody that was captured and alive was dead. about seven or eight years ago russia found one pow they had during world war ii. they put him in an insane asylum because they thought he was crazy. a new doctor was this there and the guy said if you were. he said this guy isn't crazy, he's just hungarian. after being held up for 50 years like they, they let him go back home to hungary. in february of this year, russia had another prisoner. he was in hitler group and he was captured during the war, and he was 14 when he was in the group.

he just got released this past february. >> what about vietnam? any guys ever discovered. did we have any evidence of an american still held? >> yes. there's been plenty through the years. that person is a liar. they're crazy. what do you call it? they don't do the investigation they're supposed to do. they never really sat down and talked to these countries and said you turn over any pow you do have. find them and we can end this issue. i don't care what country is it whether it's southeast asia, china or north korea. >> makes sense to me. i don't know why they would torture somebody. they probably -- i don't know. >> neither do i. a lot of it is they don't want to be caught holding the bag.

>> thank you. good luck this weekend. why you having trump, by the way? figured you'd invite everybody? most of the guys like trump? >> yeah. we need some change in the government. i think congress and senate is a little afraid of him because they can't buy him. we need somebody to take over this country and run it the way it's supposed to be. obama has put this country this such debt. how are we going to repay that debt? we have hillary in there, it will be more debt. we have our military that's retiring, and they're making them pay for health care. she says if i become president, we'll give the illegals free health care. >> did she say that? >> yes, she did. >> thank you. up next, too good to be true. bernie said he is willing to debate donald trump, what does the gop nominee to be say? we have his answer. yourself watching hardball, the place for politics.

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i think it would get high ratings. it would be in big arena somewhere. we can have a lot of fun with it. we've had a couple of calls from the network. >> you raise $10 million, you would get on a debate stage. >> i would love to. >> that's donald trump yesterday sounding interested with a debate to bernie sanders. today he changed his tune. he said now that i'm the presumptive republican nominee, it seems inappropriate that i would debate the second place finisher. i'll wait to debate the first place finisher in the democratic party, probably crooked hillary clinton or whoever it may be. trump sounded a similar note at

his rally this afternoon. let's watch him here. >> you know what, if you're in first place, you don't want to debate a guy in second place. it would be i'll end up with bernie. they don't want bernie. he's a socialist. give me a break. have we come that far? have we come that far? i don't think so. >> here's how senator sanders we responds to the news that trump won't debate him. >> i heard that he was going to debate me. i heard he was not going to debate me. i heard he was going to debate me, and now you're telling me he's not going debate me. i hope he changes his mind again. mr. trump is known to change his mind many times in day. trump goes around, he's a bully. he's a big tough guy. well, mr. trump, what are you afraid of? >> well, why trump change his mind? i'm joined with tonight's

roundtable. let's start going here. why did this not happen? pretend we're all don king here. what happened to this fight? >> i think trump has no need to debate him. i can sit back and watch this whole popcorn fight finish between hillary and bernie and not get in the middle. the only person that benefits is bernie sanders. it puts him on a main stage and puts his ideals out there. he wants to debate. >> i think he would be declared winner from the start. we how old be the flashy guy from new york. >> trump could have had him stand up there and be forced to either attack or defend hillary clinton. trump could have stood there and lashed out at hillary clinton over and over again and waited to see. >> hillary would be the collateral damage. >> i find it one thing we can say what it wasn't about was

proprie propriety. all of a sudden trump cares about what is appropriate. we don't believe that. maybe the republican party was telling him you don't want to get in the way of this. let them duke it out. it could have really caused some mischief. >> you first along back here. here we are friday, 27th of may, getting close to july. which way is this race shifting, inside the democratic party and across the board between the two parties? where are the movement that you see now? >> some of these polls are even ahead of hillary clinton in key battleground states. they were really shocking. maybe he has a chance. he's the republican nominee. he has a chance of being next president of the united states despite the fact that all

conventional wisdom would say his candidacy has no traction. >> what's going on? >> she and her campaign like to be 100% in control of what's happening. that's not happening in the 2016 cycle. you saw donald trump dispatch his competitors. it seems like she's on two tracks. she has one track she's trying to get to the numbers to be the nominee and she'll wait and figure out how to bring the sanders people on board. >> we have to take a break. when i saw the mexican flags, i said the americans. i should have never made that reference. i feel terrible. just because you wave an american flag doesn't make you better than somebody on the other side of the argument. it's not true. it's not true. that isn't the fact. a live update as protests get heated. this is still going on, this stuff. hardball back after this. usaa .

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somebody had pepper spray. one of the supporters sprayed it. everybody else could -- you could smell it. you could feel it. i was hit in the head with some water. on and off there were fights because some on either side had just mixed in with one another. right now what i'm looking at is police in full riot gear with batons pushing people back, pushing me back. as i'm speaking, i'm watching and for the most part, they are divided. trump supporters on one side. protesters on the other. they chose to come over. go ahead, chris. >> i was going to ask why are the trump people sticking around? just to taunt the protesters. why don't they leave? >> it's on both sides. the protesters who stick around want to stick around because they want to meet the supporters who are coming out.

i don't know who starts it really because the supporters are let out and the protesters start yelling at them. the supporters also just saw t him talk about building a wall, they're excited about it. they come out and this is what happens. we see the clash. >> let me ask you, are they still separated, the two crowds, physically? the trump people and the protesters, are they still separated? >> reporter: as we were speaking and i was telling you that the police in full riot gear were trying to separate them, there aren't enough of them to separate the crowd. because right now i'm looking at a big crowd of supporters and protesters face-to-face, throwing water bottles at each other, shouting insults. and it's worth noting that getting in between most of these fights are a few people, one man in particular wearing a "free

hugs" shirt, several others who jump in between all the fights they can. who are sort of neutral. not the police, of course. and say, don't fight, keep it peaceful. usually they're successful. but there aren't enough of them. as i said, we've seen several fistfights break out. it's worth noting as well -- i see my cameraman. we kind of got lost in the fights. the police have declared for the first time an unlawful assembly, which is the warning, the first one that they give before they say they're going to make arrests for the first time. they'll make a couple more warnings then start moving in and arresting people. that's what has happened in albuquerque. that's what happened in anaheim. and that's what will happen here. >> hold on now, jake. take care of yourself. let's bring in jim cavanaugh, the expert. it seems to me, as you said in an earlier appearance on this net work, this is going to be a rolling thing. it's going to go from now at least to the conventions. will police have to mount up, bulk up with more officers on

the street, more weaponry, more whatever, horses even, and that will rile up the crowds to escalate as well? >> i don't think we're going -- i think we're going to see this all summer. i don't see an end to it require think you see the thin blue line in action here but it's reserved police action, officers dealing with civil disobedience, so far on a minor scale. water bottles thrown, a lot of the taunting, people dancing in the street. but fights break out, some arrests made. like jacob said what's going to happen now is unlawful assembly is declared and you'll see that team of tactical officers in the near future try to move that crowd, without gas, just by walking and walking and try to move the crowd to disperse the crowd. they'll kind of try to do that slowly. if there's violence they'll try to arrest those people quickly. >> so i don't know how to explain this. maybe you can. but we're looking at people who

are angry. and it seems to me that they're angry because of the insult. it's like insult to injury. they've had a hard time, some of them in this country, when a lot of them have had problems with not having documentation, all that. and then to have someone go out there and call them rapists, build a wall to keep you out, to keep anybody like you out. what has caused this anger level? >> i think you've hit it on the head, chris. when we talked the other day you talked about pride. you talked about it earlier today. that the people with the mexican flag are mexican-americans. the people with american flag are american. all these people are americans. and they're all going through these opposing views. when you insult someone's heritage, insult them for who they are, when you insult someone for who they are by calling senator warren a der ricive name, pocahontas, you

insult all native americans. people take these things emotionally deep. so the commanders of the police have to understand that. there's a lot of emotion there. >> yeah, okay. >> they've got to keep those separated. >> back to jacob. >> reporter: yes, we watched what was almost a fistfight between a member of the media and one of the protesters. then again we have on my left, we have the police in full riot gear, they're standing there making sure that they don't spill onto the streets over there. they have the batons out, of course. then over here, if we swing around, we're going to now look at where the protesters and supporters are not separated. they mingle here one and another. we see here on the left several of the protesters. we see here on the right a lot of make america great again hats. it's really that maybe there aren't enough of them right here. we know there's a big police presence 300 feet away. we've seen the s.w.a.t. team, we have seen the few hundred police officers. but they're not here, they're

not separating for some reason any longer this crowd. again, they've declared an unlawful assembly. they say they will protest, they will arrest people. i'm hearing it again, the warning about the unlawful assembly. usually they give three or four warnings then start closing in. they go after one or two, arrest them, 10 some people get scared and they leave. we'll see if that happens again. we'll go here. it looks like police in full riot gear are trying to get in and separate the crowds really for the third or fourth time. we'll see if they're successful this time. >> they moved him out like he was on a rope. >> back to jim cavanaugh. you see the maneuvering going on by the police. >> yes, it's very good, chris. what they're trying to do is separate. but of course you understand that you can't tell by everyone what they look like, who they support. so they try to do it in general to get between people. what they try to read too though

is the psychology of the crowd. the mood. and right now it's not very violent or anything and they're reading that. if you start with a lot missiles being thrown and windows being broken and fights and assaults then the tempo of the violence increases. with a crowd it can happen quickly. so they're keeping it down. the police aren't pressing it very hard but they're making their announcements. they know this crowd is okay right now for violence. it's not a mob. it's just demonstrators. it's democracy, it's always a little messy. but i think san diego pd is right now, they have their finger on the tempo, they're doing just the right thing. not too much, not too little. just the right thing. >> richard fowler. >> i've covered ferguson and baltimore and i think what you can sense from that crowd is there's a lot of anger in this country. whether you're mexican, whether you're african-american, there's anger. and this anger's playing out in this election. you see it on the bernie side,

you see it on the trump side. politically they'll have to figure out a way to encapsulate this anger and use it for her campaign, hillary clinton. >> that's a part of the to havery. more opportunities than just looking at this kind of situation. jacob, you're back on. >> reporter: all right, chris. we just want to talk to somebody who's willing to talk without saying f-trump. daniel, you're from san diego? >> from chicago originally, i came here when i joined the marine corps. >> why did you feel it was important for you to come out here? >> just to show that trump is pure evil. if you vote for him, it's evil. it's not good for our country. i've got to show support for the protesters against trump. he's not helping the country. >> what is your top beef with trump? what most makes you upset about him? >> what he says about mexico, building a wall. it wouldn't be the usa without mexico. we all the same. i know he's making a difference between the rich and the poor. he cares about the rich people, he don't care about the average

people. >> you've been here watching the back and forth, the fighting, the police coming in. what do you make of all of this? >> it's crazy. like i think it would be crazy, somebody's running for president and you see how many people what this brings up. him just running for president. look at it, brings out all these different emotions, it's crazy. >> i think we're going to go. thanks, daniel. go ahead, chris. >> thank, good reporting. we're hearing a very loud crowd there. it's hard to tell how close they were. they must have been very close to your microphone because it was really a roar. let me get some thoughts here. jennifer? >> it looks like neither side wants to let the other side win. they don't want to back off and let the other side -- give them more space. they just feed off each other's energy. it seems like there's real outrage on the one side and the other side, they seem to just -- it's those racial contrasts played to those nationalist

white voters that donald trump is trying to maximize. >> we're also hearing passions on the other side. the protesting side. >> it's a microcosm. >> as richard pointed out, we don't know. that voice we're hearing in a crowd. >> a microcosm of donald trump's campaign. he is exploiting something that is out there, a real feeling among the electorate. >> does this work? >> it obviously did work, he's the republican nominee. >> in the general? >> that's the open question. hillary clinton may not be the perfect opponent to challenge it. because she is also so deeply unpopular. in a totally different way. >> no, but she doesn't cause riots. >> that's right. the exact opposite. >> riot is based on the idea of excitement. whether anger or excitement -- what hillary clinton has to do is catch it, put it in a bottle. >> historically america goes to the safe candidate. hillary looks safer than this. my thanks to nebraska's jac s c

cone. that does it for me and "hardball." coverage continues with my colleague chris hayes on "all in." tonight on "all in" -- >> we have a border problem that is so insane, it is so ridiculous. >> trump draws crowds both for and against him in california. as he touts a bold strategy. >> i actually think we're going to win california. plus i have property here. >> why he now won't debate bernie sanders. but will face clinton. >> we know a lot about donald trump. he roots for himself, not for you. >> then the least-surprising supporter to board the trump train. as a former rival -- >> a con artist. named donald trump. >> is now falling in line. plus the president's historic trip to hiroshima. >> we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear. >> his message on nuclear weapons and yet highlights the stakes of this election. >> can you tell the middle east we're not using a nuclear