good day everyone. i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters. happening now a big storm sweeping right toward the southeast u.s. a tropical system threatening the carolina coast this holiday weekend with hundreds of thousands in its potential path. join me right now with the latest on that storm system meteorologist bonny schneider. how is it looking, bonnie. >> this just in, we have the latest advisory to tell you still a tropical depression. tropical storm bonnie has not formed just yet, but it will later this afternoon. take a look and you can see the bulk of the convection or the thunderstorms are working their way further off to the north and west. in fact, the movement has slowed down a bit in our latest advisory 13 miles per hour. earlier it was moving a little faster at 14. this was to be expected. and also a lot of this is coming over the gulf stream. keep in mind that's where temperatures are warmer, so we

might see that strengthening happening as it just kind of passes over the gulf stream. rain working its way into charleston right now. this is really just the beginning, i want to open the scope and you can see where we have yellow and orange. this is where we have some of the heavier rain, and that's going to come in later on today, tonight and especially into sunday when the storm officially makes landfall. so what we can expect is a weak and brief tropical storm, meaning it will die down in intensity quite a bit by the time we get to sunday afternoon. but that will happen sunday morning. dangerous rip currents are ahead, rough surf and potentially heavy rain, we could see three inches of rain in some locations. luckily the rain has stopped over southeast texas, but, boy, was it coming down over the past week or so. in fact, on thursday some spots in texas just north of houston received almost 20 inches of rain in one day. so just treacherous conditions there. elsewhere across the country while it's drying out in texas and that water will recede eventually we're looking at really hot conditions in the northeast and the southeast as well. temperatures look good for much of the holiday weekend to the west, but keep in mind that the

heat will persist. and it could get dangerous out there if you're going to be out and about on sunday, and even into monday temperatures are soaring well into the 90s in many locations. your memorial day travel a little stormy through the central plains, alex. >> okay, bonnie, thank you for the heads up on all of that. we'll keep monitoring. let's go now to politics. we have live pictures from santa barbara, california, where bernie sanders supporters are lining up to hear him speak just an hour from now. this rally is the first of sanders' three stops in the state today and follows his reaction to donald trump calling off a debate with him yesterday. >> i hope that he changes his mind. again. mr. trump is known to change his mind many times in a day. and i would, you know, trump is a bully, he's a big tough guy. well, mr. trump, what are you afraid of? >> here's what trump told his supporters at a rally in california yesterday about why he won't be going one-on-one with the vermont senator. >> i want to debate him so

badly, i'd love to debate bernie. if you're in first place, you don't want to debate a guy in second place, but could be i'll end up with bernie. >> trump made those comments as demonstrators gathered outside the venue in fresno. demonstrators also clashed with supporters later in san diego, insults and protesters threw eggs and bottles of water at police who declared unlawful assembly and pepper sprayed those who refused to leave. in the end 35 people were arrested. hillary clinton was also in california yesterday, but is getting ready to return to new jersey to make a final pitch. her campaign just added two events in new jersey this week ahead of the june 7th primary. meanwhile, democrats in wyoming are bracing for another possible showdown between clinton and sanders supporters when they meet to select 14 delegates at their convention today. although sanders won that caucus earlier this month, they agreed to split the delegates evenly with the clinton camp. clinton has an additional four super delegates so that adds up

to 11 total for her. nbc's chris jansing is with the campaign in santa barbara. what is the campaign saying now about sanders' chances in california? >> reporter: well, i talked to the california director of the sanders campaign late yesterday and he said they're feeling good about it. look, the polls show this race is definitely tightening. hillary clinton was winning not so long ago by double digits. latest polls show her up just two or three points, that's within the margin of error. having said that what the sanders campaign points to is what we're seeing inside here. and there's been a steady stream of folks all morning long, some of them lined up five to six hours before this event was even scheduled to begin. they continue to draw these big crowds. i was checking, alex, over the last week some of the crowds he's drawn here in california in ventura. almost 10,000 people in san bernardino, 5200, santa monica 7200, vista, 7,250. it answers the question about

whether or not once people realize that hillary clinton was just about 100 delegates, less than 100 now away from securing the nomination, would they still come, would they still be feeling the bern, to use the phrase they like to use. so i talked to some folks about whether or not if he doesn't win the nomination will they vote for hillary clinton. here's what they told me. >> there's no way i want donald trump in there, but i'm a bernie or bust. i'm not for hillary either. >> so if she's the nominee, you won't vote for her? >> no, i won't. i'm bernie or bust. bernie or bust. >> i'm absolutely never hillary. i'm bernie or bust. hillary is the nominee, will you vote for her? >> i have to vote for her, but i want bernie in there. he's my primary choice. but, yes, we have to push hillary, keep pushing her to the left if possible. >> reporter: and obviously that's the challenge for hillary clinton. all the folks who have been coming by the thousands to these rallies, can she win them over, and bernie sanders is on this huge last ten-day push toward

that final voting day on june 7th. but obviously this is the most delegate rich state. just today he'll have two more rallies after this one. he's got a schedule that is absolutely nonstop. this is where you're going to see him. you mentioned hillary clinton going into new jersey. what she'd like to do obviously, alex, is be able to close it out, have the number of delegates she needs to win the nomination even before the california polls close on the 7th, alex. >> chris jansing in santa barbara covering all the bases. appreciate that. let's get more on today's top political stories, we bring in amy parn, senior white house correspondent of the hill and co-author of hrc, also alex kingsbury deputy editor at "boston globe" with a good day to you both. start with you, amy. as we check out the latest polls, hillary clinton and donald trump are in a dead heat after months of clinton holding a strong lead. why is she losing ground? >> i think what you're finally seeing, alex, is the republican

party k party coalescing around donald trump. that's finally happening. you're seeing someone like marco rubio who he called little marco kind of, you know, support him and so that's happening. i'm hearing from sources too that they want the republican person to win this thing. and so that's what's happening. you know, at the same time hillary clinton is still in this race against bernie sanders even though she's not mentioning him at rallies. she's totally focused on donald trump, but she's being tripped up by bernie sanders and a lotd of her donors and supporters are angry about this. they want him out already. >> amy, who do you think could give clinton a boost in terms of v.p. pick? what does she need in a running mate to get things going her direction? >> well, what i'm hearing is she really needs someone progressive, someone like elizabeth warren, someone like a sharon brown, that's what the democratic party really wants right now to sort of coalesce

behind her. you know, she's -- someone like senator tim kaine is also on her short list, but they think he's too boring and not exciting enough. they're like why not mix this up and make it interesting, why not double down on two women, gender is a big issue in this campaign, i think that's where this is headed. i think we could see something like an elizabeth warren happening. >> okay. looks now like the democratic convention could be the divided one. what would that do to republicans? >> i mean, it could be. i mean, i think the thing we're going to see just as the republicans have coalesced around donald trump, i mean, the democrats are going to rally to hillary clinton if she's the eventual nominee. picking somebody like elizabeth warren would help, but elizabeth warren isn't going to back donald trump in the election. so clinton needs to consolidate the progressive support within the democratic party, but eventually they're going to come around and back her. so if you're looking at vice presidential nominees, somebody like duval patrick, elizabeth

warren, unite democrats in this fight against trump. >> it's a blue state already, so would elizabeth warren really be a smart pick? >> not only that there's a republican governor. so if elizabeth warren is tapped to be the v.p., then there's the senate that come in to play as well. >> very good point. let's get to the e-mails. i'll start with you on that, amy. how damaging is the new state department report? where do you think the fbi ends up? do you think there could be some huge bombshell before the election? >> what i'm hearing, what i think is she's basically not going to be headed towards an indictment, but what it does do is sort of trip her up again like last summer. she had a terrible summer, this is once again being brought up. gives ammunition to the bernie supporters who don't trust her, people who want to support her but have a little bit of pause. i think that's what it does it sort of gives more of her, you know, more of the democratic party people who are supporting bernie sanders a little pause. some of them might stay home because they feel validated by

this. they feel like somehow they can't support her. so i think that's what it does ultimately. it kind of reminds people, keeps that untrustworthy story line going, something the clinton campaign has tried to avoid throughout this entire process. >> alex, how do you think clinton can woo more moderate republicans to her side? what about the sanders supporters listening to what amy was saying and my colleague out there one woman said she was bernie or bust. she said, sure, i can't vote for donald trump. but what happens to that person's vote if bernie sanders isn't the nominee? >> well, i think, you know, we're in the summer and the election seems like it's a long way away. but when we come down to it voters will be forced with a choice. one of them is do you think donald trump should be in charge of the most powerful nuclear arsenal on the face of the planet? and i think when sort of faced with those real world sort of implications of the power of the u.s. presidency, anybody who says sort of bernie or bust is going to look pretty foolish if they continue to back that kind of position. >> but you know, alex, bernie sanders, i mean, he is

repeatedly vowed to stay in the race until the convention. in fact, as recently as last night listen to this. >> brothers and sisters, we can win here in california. we can win in many of the other states coming up on june 7th. with your support we can go into the democratic national convention with a great deal of moment momentum. and we can come out with the democratic nomination. >> i mean, does he really believe he can get the nomination now? what would that path even look like? you look at california for the democrats it is proportional division. doesn't look like you could get a blowout in the state of california certainly. >> absolutely. no, i mean, i don't think bernie even probably believes at this point he can win the nomination. that's not the point. i think bernie is creating a movement that will outlive him, outlive this race and sort of shift the democratic party in more fundamental terms. i think he could be successful

in that. but still continue her race right up until the convention in 2008 and there's no reason to think bernie's, you know, pursuing this sort of policy is going to cause any long-term damage despite what it looks like sort of very close to it right now. in the long-term i think it will be fine. >> amy, given your research and what you learn writing hrc, where do you think hillary clinton's head is right now? >> i think she kind of doesn't know where the party is. she's trying to wrap her mind around it. i think she's trying to understand what she needs to do to sort of coalesce people why they didn't support her to begin with. there was this huge ready for hillary movement. people were really excited about her coming in. it sort of lost its way somewhere in this race. and i think that's a big part of the story line. you know, where did that excitement go? how is someone like bernie sanders, you know, winning so many states when people didn't even expect him to really move past new hampshire? >> okay. amy, alex, good to talk to you both.

thanks, guys. never hillary, the former secretary of state's e-mail controversy gives oxygen to that movement, especially among bernie supporters. does that mean they could vote for donald trump? my colleague joy reid and former governor ed rendell going to join me to dissect what some say is a political disconnect. ay ex. i'm a police officer. paramedic. the value of nissan's... [safety beeping] intelligent safety shield technologies. whoa! like forward emergency braking that could stop your car for you. save even more with holiday bonus cash this memorial day, during nissan's safety today event. for a limited time, save up to $1,500 on the 2016 nissan rogue with $500 memorial day bonus cash. where can i buy it? sign me up! shop your local nissan store and choosenissan.com today. ♪ burning, pins-and-needles of beforediabetic nerve pain, these feet played shortstop in high school, learned the horn from my dad and played gigs from new york to miami. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor

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in just about an hour or so from now bernie sanders will rally a crowd that's been forming since early this morning at santa barbara city college, it is one of his three stops in california today. it is also a state which appeared to be a lock at one time for front running democrat hillary clinton, but those die-hard bernie supporters who line up for his events refuse to relent even apparently at the expense of the democratic party. joining me now former pennsylvania governor ed rendell, clinton supporter and philadelphia dnc host committee

chairman. also joined here in studio by my colleague joy reid. i'll reach out to you first, has there been any sign at this point in the race that bernie sanders is going away, or his supporters? how worried are you that the party will look fractured and nominee bruised as you head towards the general? >> well, i still have confidence that senator sanders will understand to achieve the goals his movement is all about he's got to have a good convention. and we've got to unite behind hillary clinton who will be the eventual nominee. i think he's got every right to contest every last primary. those kids in california have been working for six, seven months, they deserve the right to vote for bernie sanders. hillary didn't get out in '08 until after the last primary was cast. he has the right, senator sanders, to place his name in contention at the nomination, to fight for the issues he cares about in the platform committee, to do all of those things, and he should do all of those things. he got a lot of votes.

his movement was unique in that young people brought into the process. but when it's over, and i think as senator sanders needs to give a message to his supporters going into philadelphia that we want to be positive and upbeat. we want to fight for the things we believe in. but understand that our nominee, if it's hillary clinton, is infinitely more likely to achieve progress on our goals than donald trump is. >> okay. but at least at this point, governor, here we are the end of may and it's a bit before the convention that will take place in your city there in philadelphia. my colleague, chris jansing, she caught up with some of the sanders support urs outsiers ou santa barbara, let's listen to what some say. >> there's no way i want donald trump in there. i'm a bernie or bust. i'm not for hillary either. >> so if she's the nominee, you won't vote for her? >> no, i won't. i'm bernie or bust. i'm bernie or bust. >> i'm absolutely never hillary. i'm bernie or bust. >> hillary is the nominee, will you vote for her? >> i have to vote for her, but i want bernie in there. he's my primary choice.

but, yes, we have to push hillary, keep pushing her to the left if possible. >> so how concerned are you that these supporters could sit out the general election? i mean, some of these voting trump i think that's a preposterous idea for these sanders types, but sitting it out? >> well, it's possible. and, remember, i don't think hillary clinton's going to get 100% of sanders supporters to vote for her in the fall. look, after hillary lost the nomination to senator obama, there was a group formed called puma, a lot of disgruntled hillary delegates said they'd never support senator obama. and yet on election day in november 95%-plus of the hillary supporters voted for senator obama in part because hillary was terrific at the convention, terrific on the stump for senator obama during the fall. and i think bernie will do the same. hopefully he will because the way to preserve his legacy is to make progress on the issues that he has rightfully raised.

and he can only do that with hillary clinton as president. >> okay. i want to get to joy about the issues with hillary clinton because there are according to a "new york times" piece this week a number of sanders supporters who are hoping the fbi brings her down based on the e-mail investigation. how much of this is first of all effecting her ability to focus on her message? >> yeah, i think it's affecting it a great deal. there are those hillary for prison signs that you see at bernie sanders rallies. and there is a contingent, however small, we don't know how large it is of sanders supporters as you heard in that clip are never hillary. they're saying things like they'll write bernie sanders in. some vote for jill stein, the green party candidate. >> gary ri johnson. >> or gary johnson, exactly. what i think you're seeing is the result of loose attachment of bernie sanders himself for the nktic party. he's caucused with democrats but maintained his independence. but increasingly the grudge match between bernie sanders and

the mechanisms of the democratic party. right now the sanders campaign filed a formal letter asking to have the platform and rules committee chairs removed from the convention, dan malloy and barny frank. they want debbie wasserman-schultz gone. they are increasingly looking like grudges between bernie sanders and members of the party. as long as those grudges maintain and public, there's no incentive for supporters to back down. they can say this is not only war against republicans or against the one percent or wall street or big banks, it's also war against the democratic party. >> what about the fortune magazine article which hypothesized that bernie sanders is waiting for a black swan type of moment, that black swan being this whole issue around the fbi and the e-mails. when his opponent is actively being investigated by the fbi, i mean, can you actually have democrats feel relief that there at least is some sort of a backup? do you understand that

mentality? people are saying, at least bernie sanders isn't being investigated by the fbi. >> except people who are clinton people if they can get their minds to the place they think she'll be indicted, which most hillary people think will not happen, but even if they get their minds there they say their backup is joe biden. i have not talked to a democrat, particularly elected democrats who see bernie sanders as the plan b if something goes wrong with hillary. they see joe biden as that guy. because remember a lot of hillary supporters who are the most reluctant, they're the most reluctant because they're obama people with the residuals from the '08 sort of obama versus clinton thing still going on. so these are obama people. that means they're for biden. bernie sanders is in a very strange space now because he is in such a fight with the democratic establishment. i don't see how that establishment would then turn to him as their savior. >> yeah. good point there. governor, certainly you have known the clintons for a long time. can you explain why hillary clinton has this trust, honesty, likability issue with the

voters? i'm curious about the advice you would give her because i'm going to bet when you spend time with her you don't feel any of that. her warmth comes out and everybody says one-on-one she is fabulous. but for some reason as a campaigner it doesn't translate. >> well, i think part of that is she's taken 23 years of negative attacks, that's pretty hard for anybody to shoulder without some of the criticisms sticking or at least raising doubts in people's minds. but hillary is not a great speaker to large crowds. she's a good speaker, but not a great speaker. she does, you're right, one-on-one you spend time with hillary clinton one-on-one not only do you think she's a great person, but you think she'll become a great president. but she does much better in town meetings. the night before the pennsylvania primary we had a town meeting and folks sat in the same meeting. hillary came in and spent an hour answering questions and then bernie came in, same thing. bernie did well, but hillary was terrific. she was warm. she was emotional.

she was funny. she was insightful, she knew her stuff. i think in the fall hillary's got to be placed in the right positions to get her message across. and i think they will. of course the fall campaign has those three big debates. and that's hillary's long suit. she's a great debater, she's smart. she's tough. she can take care of herself on the debate stage. i think that's what's going to win the election for her. >> you agree, joy? >> i think those debates are going to be crucial because she's also going to be able to show donald trump potentially his worst, if she can get under his skin, his sort of strange goofy putdowns, those worked in the republican primary because there were all republicans on that stage and he could use ridicule. it's different number one when you're debating a woman as joe biden found out. you can't use ridicule in the same way and now it's different because you're auditioning for the big job, commander in chief. hillary clinton say what you want about her, she passes the commander in chief test with most people who don't like her. so she's going to come across as

sober and serious as an adult. it's going to be a big challenge, i think, for donald trump to come across the same way. >> okay, joy reid, governor ed rendell, thank you so much. appreciate it. donald trump's fate radio talk show host hugh hewitt made a prediction about the talk show host coming up i'll ask him about that. life insurance automobile insurance i spent 20 years active duty they still refer to me as "gunnery sergeant" when i call being a usaa member because of my service in the military to pass that on to my kids something that makes me happy my name is roger zapata and i'm a usaa member for life. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. hi! hey! i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. same here. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay.

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right now a tropical storm warning is in effect for south carolina as a depression gathers strength in the atlantic. and the weather channel's dave malkoff is in myrtle beach, south carolina, that's right where that storm is supposed to hit. dave, what is it like where you are? >> reporter: alex, if you look around it really looks like a regular memorial day weekend here, but not for long. let me plug this in here so i can get you a quick wind reading. we got four miles an hour. but we're getting gusts of seven miles an hour. when that tropical depression

comes onshore, and it may come onshore around 2:00 a.m. here, it could cause a huge disruption to all the people who are having their memorial day weekend out here. not only the families that you see on the beach, but there is also a massive bike rally, a motorcycle rally here on myrtle beach. and that's not exactly something that you can do inside. so they are going to have to make other plans. the folks here on the beach are going to have to make other plans. this rain will start around a half an hour from now. so as you look around for these people, they're not going to be here in much more than half an hour as the rain starts pushing onshore. and it will not end at that point. as we look forward, we could see waves, and you can see the waves right here, people are out on the waves, those could get up about four feet or so when the tropical depression -- or

tropical storm comes up here, alex. and if it does come onshore as a tropical storm, it will be called bonnie. two million people up and down the carolina coast in the target area. >> okay. well, thank you for the heads up but not a great forecast, dave. appreciate it. donald trump's conservative credentials and canceling that debate with bernie sanders. i'll talk to conservative radio talk show host hugh hewitt about those issues and more. get between you and life's beautiful moments. with flonase allergy relief, they wont. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms. most allergy pills only control one substance. flonase controls six. and six is greater than one. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. so you can seize those moments, wherever you find them. flonase. six is greater than one changes everything. more of the old lady. i'd like to see her go back to her

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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ welcome back everyone. i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. we're kicking off the bottom of the hour with new pictures of the bernie sanders rally in california. you see supporters lining up about a half hour or so before sanders hits the stage. after this event he'll hold two more rallies in the state. no scheduled events for donald trump today after protesters clashed with police at yesterday's rally in san diego. officials tell nbc news 35 protesters were arrested. let's go right to nbc's katy tur

smiling for us in san diego. hey, katy with a good day, any response to all of this hoopla from the trump campaign? >> reporter: you know, you almost caught me saying something about my college. i'm glad the audio was up. anyway, donald trump in response to the hoopla for the bernie sanders campaign, no, not as of now. their statement yesterday was their response. donald trump doesn't think it would be appropriate to debate the second place finisher. he believes bernie sanders will be the second place finisher. of course there was some excitement around this especially from the bernie sanders campaign because it would help him get a lot more attention in his fight against hillary clinton. of course they're battling it out here in california. but donald trump is moving past that. tomorrow he's going to be in washington, d.c. talking about going to rolling thunder with bikers and raising money for veterans. but here in san diego where he was yesterday he met quite a bit of resistance, quite a bit of protesters out here trying to

tell donald trump they don't believe he should be in their state, they don't believe he should be in their city and don't agree with the rhetoric. protests at times yesterday got quite heated. there were some violent incidents between the protesters and police and between the protesters and some of donald trump's supporters. now, inside the rally there were about 10,000 people, maybe 12,000 people inside. donald trump was feeding them red meat on immigration while also promising to win the latino vote. take a listen. >> because we're going to unify our country. we're going to take care of the hispanics. we're going to get jobs. we're going to take care of the african-americans who are really suffering in this country. and hillary clinton can't do a damn thing for them. and she never will. and guess what, she doesn't want to. okay. she couldn't care less. >> reporter: he's trying to make a very clear division between him and hillary clinton. he'll be able to solve all of

your problems. hillary clinton will only make all of your problems worse. as for the latino vote in the state it is a very important vote. registration is up across the board including from republicans, up way more for democrats and that is because of the surge in latino registration. so come november when donald trump sees the results here in california, he's going to find out whether his outreach for latinos worked in his favor or if it worked in hillary clinton's, alex. >> katy tur, thank you so much for that. go gouchos, isn't that the team? >> yes, it is. you are right. >> thank you very much, katy. against the backdrop of drama surrounding the nominee, the libertarian convention underway in florida with some in the gop looking for an alternative to donald trump. new attention is now focused on the libertarians. nbc's tony at the convention. tony, good day to olympic -- you. do they seem themselves as

viable candidates against donald trump or bernie sanders, hillary clinton? >> i would say both. in the final hours the presidential debate the selection tomorrow is going to be happening. enough talk about the significance. let's meet some of the candidates. this is john mcafee, self-made millionaire, also bills himself the most interesting candidate in the world. and there's something to that. the president or prime minister of belize said he's very paranoid, even bonkers, not really an endorsement there. and we've got some funny delegates here. this is star child. >> this is the bonkers man. >> we're going to have a full conversation later in the hour. i think we are we have you scheduled at 3:15. not right now. we're going to do a run-through. this is ms. starchild, one of the delegates making a choice this weekend. and if you come this way, i can show you some of the other nominees. this is one of the more unconventional candidates. you might remember him from the new hampshire primary. >> came in fourth.

>> came in fourth but now running libertarian. not really representative of the party. >> not representative of the libertarian party, thank you. >> we were talking earlier about how kpangtly you keep this on your head. >> it's science. it's a combination of gravity and friction. >> no glu at all. >> no glue. >> that is pretty magical flat form right there. >> no, sir. >> i am impressed. i for one am very impressed. alex, come here a little further we can see two more candidates. this is kevin mccormick, he is running a kind of protest campaign very upset with the republican party. you declared in march we're outraged with what the republicans are doing this cycle. we're going to be talking to you a lot more later. i know we're scheduled to check in again. this is a quick wrap. if you come just a little bit further, alex, we've got gary johnson here. nobody is manning his stand. gary johnson, former republican governor of new mexico, front-runner for the libertarian nomination. we did catch up with him earlier, and we asked him that key question, who do you think you're going to take more votes from, the republicans or the democrats? here's what he had to say. what i hear you saying is

republicans out there if you don't like donald trump, i'm your guy. >> yes. and if you don't like hillary clinton, if you don't like the notion that, gee, government is probably going -- not probably, it's going to get bigger. it's going to tax more. and at the end of the day hasn't hillary been an architect of our foreign policy that i think has made the world less safe, not more safe. >> so, alex, one of the things i think is really attractive about the libertarian party for many younger voters is the fact they support drug legalization, not just marijuana legalization, but all drugs. some differentiation among the candidates, but that is a surprising note. and vermin supreme is an unusual candidate but not unusual in this hallway because they're sharing a walk with the megacon conference down the hall. a lot of excitement, strange behavior overall but interesting and will have a difference in november. >> it will. and i've been smiling through this entire report, tony. i want to thank you very much.

if not giggling at some points. i'm glad they had my mic down. i'm not quite sure how we follow that with any degree of dignity but bring in the always dignified hugh hewitt, political ha analyst. hugh with a welcome to you. >> thank you, alex, good morning. >> i'm glad you're here. we're going to make you call out on this because you told about a month ago my colleague steve corp knack ki donald trump wouldn't get unless a political asteroid hits california. that was actually a pretty good one. what happened? >> it hit indiana instead. i went on vacation to europe for two weeks certain that when i came back california would be on everyone's radar as a contested race between ted cruz and donald trump. in fact, it turned out to be a contested race between hillary and bernie. she has lost her lead. it's down to statistically insignificant 2%, but donald trump is the nominee. he is the presumptive nominee. i've been wrong more often as i said on hardball the other night, more often than the cavaliers lost when lebron was in miami.

and the last two months, now, i got it right at the beginning of the year, but donald trump surged. he held it together and continued to attract new voters into republican primaries, especially in the open primary states. and he's actually accumulated more votes than any republican nominee before. however, he hasn't received a majority of the republican votes cast this year, which has never happened before. so remains one of the most interesting, certainly the most unconventional and controversial nominee in modern times. >> you are certainly in good company calling it wrong if you will. everybody has. at one point though i know donald trump promised you that he would release his tax returns. now his campaign chairman paul manafort saying he'd be surprised if that happened. what is trump hiding and does it leave him vulnerable to attacks from both parties? >> i don't know if he's hiding anything. i haven't seen the returns. i think it's a mistake not to put them out because i believe hillary clinton will use innuendo every day to suggest he's hiding something. but my experience with mr. trump is that he makes up his mind and he sticks to it until he changes

it. right now he's being adamant i don't have to and it's not a matter of law. and it isn't. and he did tell me in 2015 he would and he hasn't. i think that's a problem for the campaign going forward. may be a problem for some republican voters, but his bigger problem by far is pu persuading the never trump people who represent in the gallup poll about 30% of the republican party that he can be trusted to be the steward of the legacy of reagan. in the tease you said he doesn't have conservative kcredentials. he doesn't. that doesn't mean he cannot persuade conservatives to support him. i think the answer is to be ill lit rative, cotton, kyle and tom cott cotton, john kyle as secretary of defense and paul clement former bush era, widely regarded as the justice in waiting for the scalia seat. and you'd have a party, not truce negotiations in cleveland

if donald trump did just a few very specific things the never trump movement would dissolve. >> what about your take on trump canceling the debate with bernie sanders? i mean, does it suggest he sees sanders as more of a threat than he's letting on? you know the poll numbers, virtually every single one of them if those two were to go head-to-head at this point in the race, bernie sanders would beat him. >> donald trump would crush bernie sanders in the general election. this country is not a socialist country. no matter how far left wing the democratic party goes, donald trump would love for bernie sanders to be the nominee. but donald trump is very smart and he does math. that's why he can build skyscrapers. hillary clinton is the nominee of the democratic party. her server makes her vulnerable. he does not want to go into a stage with bernie sanders who has dismissed the server as a nonissue. in fact, the server is a major issue, she compromised national security, she flaunted the law. i believe she broke 18 use 1924,

if donald trump goes onto a stage with bernie sanders, bernie sanders to a huge audience whenever i did a debate with donald trump we had 24 million people on the first debate i did that i participated in, he doesn't want to give that kind of an audience, which bernie can't get on his own, to the dismissing of the charges against mrs. clinton. secretary clinton broke the law, bernie sanders doesn't care about that. donald trump does. so i think he's smart to deny him the platform. >> hugh, i want to take issue saying you believe hillary clinton will be indicted. because yours is a pretty singular voice on that front at least with people whom i've spoken. so why do you think she will get indicted? and were that to happen, which again, most people other than you are saying it's not likely, then what? >> well, let me give you a little background, alex. i'm glad you asked. i served as special assistant to two attorneys general in the reagan administration and right into the sensitive compartment and information and the briefing then was if you leave it on your desk you'll be disciplined, if you take it home you'll be

fired, if you give it to someone you'll be prosecuted. then the white house office we had same level of concern, particularly sensitive compartment information which had to be reviewed. so i know the rule very well. when she took those records home maintained classified information on a private server she was breaking that law knowingly and the inspector general's report confirms she did not do so with permission and that in fact the reason that does not happen the inspector general's report said is because it endangers the united states' national security. my expert testimony talked to mike morell, former deputy director of the cia and acting director told me a year ago on may 17th that he was certain that foreign intelligence agencies had compromised her server. so i believe based upon my past experience and my past classifications, i no longer hold those classifications, but on the basis of having been read in and read out of the programs in the '80s under reagan that anyone other than mrs. clinton

would already be in jail. they may indict someone lower down. the fbi's being very -- might be jake sullivan, but we have gusifer pleading guilty. we have the technical guy doing a plea deal being immunized. i think there's a lot of shoes are going to fall here, i don't mind being lonely on this one, she hurt the national security of the united states, almost certainly the russians, the chinese and iranians had access to her server in realtime. >> and you say others would be brought down, people who done this before her. and we know others have and that would include colin powell -- >> oh, very, very different. >> how so? >> he had e-mail in a private account, not a good idea. establishing a server, an entire stand-alone system with the intention of avoiding detection and then taking all the records with you are matters of gigantic importance and distinguishing from colin powell, condoleezza rice did not use any e-mail,

throwing up in the air to get people to look at this mt. everest of distinction between what she did and what secretary powell did. it wasn't good what secretary powell did but it didn't -- little legalese you need for 18 usc-1924, mrs. clinton's did. the bureau is moving slowly and methodically through the interviews, but it is a completely different situation than secretary powell. >> hugh, i've been told i have to wrap but i have to quickly ask if you think anyone from the libertarian party has a real shot at this, or at least disrupting either clinton or trump? >> no, gary johnson told me five years ago we didn't need any aircraft carriers. so i can't see a serious conservative voting for gary johnson ever. >> hugh hewitt, thank you very much. good to talk with you. >> thank you, alex. vacation security changes tsa have made to make a little less of a headache. that's coming up in our next hour.

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>> we can win here in california. we can win in many of the other states coming up on june 7th. with your support, we can go into the democratic national convention with a great deal of moment momentum, and we can come out with the democratic nomination. >> meanwhile the democrats in wyoming are bracing for another possible showdown between clinton and possible supporters when they meet at their convention today. the clinton has an additional four superdelegates, which adds up to 11 for her. the other big gathering today is the libertarian party national convention. it will be in its second day now for orlando, florida. let's go to chris jansing. she's with the sanders campaign in santa barbara.