♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. it's going to happening rigc live, a fierce fight, bernie sanders refusing to back down fueling up efforts to take downhill lair clinton in california's june 7th primary. this as he ramps up attacks against the democratic party calling for well-known committee members to be thrown out of this year's convention. and then there's a debate over a debate, sanders still hoping for a faceoff with the presumptive

gop nominee. donald trump at least for now says no. >> if you're in first place, you don't want to really debate a guy who's in second place. >> also today, new questions about what's to come in cleveland after yesterday's massive and disruptive protests against trump in california. more than 30 arrests made raising concerns over whether the gop has a grand old plan in place for its convention this summer. and picking a third candidate, the libertarian party hard at it this weekend in orlando working to nominate the new face of its party amid its potential unchartered influence on the 2016 race. but we begin in california where protesters, police and donald trump supporters clashed at a rally in san diego. the scene is becoming common place at trump's california events where immigration activists and democrats are standing up to trump's divisive rhetoric. nbc's katy tur joins me now from san diego. katy, good to see you here. seems like these protests won't be ending any time soon looking ahead to cleveland and the rnc,

what are organizers there doing in how they're going to get abreast of this as we kbet close tore cleveland? >> to be honest, frances, we see riot police at pretty much every city we go to with donald trump. we didn't see it in north dakota, and i don't believe in montana either, but even in south bend, indiana, there were riot police on the street there just in case things got out of hand. so it is common place, as you said. not just in california, or even frankly in the major cities. as for july and the convention, cleveland, organizers are taking that threat very seriously. the police out there planning to keep protesters and folks that are going to the rnc and trump supporters as separate as they possibly can. but even when they try to do that there is confrontation. yesterday here in san diego they tried to have all of the trump supporters that were inside the rally go out a back exit of the convention center, well away from where the protesters were

demonstrating. and that worked to a degree, but a number of those supporters found their way over to the crowd and did end up engaging with those protesters. at times those engagements did turn out violent and they were very heated as well with protesters and supporters screaming at each other. so the rnc is taking it seriously, frances, as you would imagine. >> and what is donald trump himself and his campaign actually saying about these? i know it's nothing new and we've seen him in the past say get him out of here, kick them out of here when they're in his events. but are they shifting now that we are getting so close now in their approaching their message to the protesters? >> absolutely not. their message has been the same since the beginning. these protesters are thugs. donald trump says that over and over again on twitter whenever he leaves a rally and there are protests, he calls them thugs. inside the rally he calls them thugs. that is their line. they're the campaign of law and order. they believe the protests outside of his events only

benefit him because he's showing what he says is peace and love inside these rallies, and he holds up cops as a shining example of good work done in this country. the protesters are the one they feel are instigating this. they're the ones making it worse. and certainly yesterday when you see these scenes of protesters trying to breakthrough barricades and refusing to leave engaging with cops, that message does start to resonate. i will say this though, these protests yesterday most of them were organized. they were people with unions, there were grass roots efforts, the folks really trying to get into confrontations came through to do just that. they came there to either get into it with the cops, or they came in there to get into it with supporters. it's not a large contingent of these protests, but it is a very powerful group of small people. small people, powerful group who they are trying to basically pick a fight. so, frances, this isn't

surprising. the campaign didn't bothered by it. and if they were bothered by it, then you would see donald trump change his rhetoric on the trail. but he has not done that. >> no, we haven't seen it yet. nbc's katy tur. thank you very much reporting for us in san diego. we appreciate it. well, turning now to the democratic race, bernie sanders is taking his claim in california, the vermont senator spending the weekend on the campaign trail in the golden state in hopes of beating hillary clinton in the june 7th primary. sanders just wrapped up a rally in santa barbara, the first of three events he's holding in california today. for more on the democratic race let's bring in jeanie, pollster, manager at nyu and also david goodfriend, former deputy staff secretary to president bill clinton. to both of you i appreciate you being with me. now as we dive into this, david, i want to start with you. with donald trump officially backing out of that invite, he will, he won't to debate bernie sanders saying in his words it would be inappropriate for him to debate the second place finisher.

but i also want to ask because when you have members of your own party, senator joe manchin who had choice words for it, and then dianne feinstein also calling it publicity ploy, what's your take on that members of your own party? >> well, i actually think that it's outing donald trump as the blow hard fake wimp that he actually is. because here's a guy who said he'd challenge bernie sanders to a debate. bernie calls him on it and trump backs away coming up with a lame excuse. so i like the fact donald trump is being outed for the fake that he is. that having been said, i don't think we're going to see much of a change in the dynamic within our democratic party until we get to the convention. and by the way, i don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. let me say why quickly. bernie sanders is bringing new people sfwointo the political process that otherwise would not have been there before. and everybody's polling shows they're far more likely, the vast majority far more likely to

support the eventual democratic nominee than donald trump. that's a good thing for the party, good thing for my candidate hillary clinton. what i do think is evidence is that bernie sanders is still pushing for his own acquisition of delegates going into the convention. that's probably to gain the most possible leverage he can in order to change the party's platform, for example. that's not irrational, but i do think there's going to come a point where he'll cross a threshold of becoming more harmful to our prospects of beating donald trump. that's something i think he wants to avoid so he can even keep his core supporters. many of those supporters don't want to see donald trump become president, and don't want bernie santders to inadd vert ently become an instrument to help that happen. i think what he's doing is important. and i want to say as a democrat and hillary supporter myself, i think what he's doing is important. he's bringing people into the political process. he's showing donald trump to be the fake we all know he is. and those are good things.

>> well, especially with hillary clinton a little tough instead of focusing on donald trump and the general it's this two-prong fight that we're seeing. when you're talking about california there, you have hillary clinton who is leading donald trump by ten points. then you also have sanders up by 17 points. so if you think about it donald trump does it make sense for him to be over there given these numbers? >> you know, it is fascinating. and, you know, i do have to say in terms of what david's point, i think that hillary clinton would have been more of a loser out of this debate than some democrats do see. and i think we have seen the campaign react to that. >> pushing her away from the spotlight. >> pushing her away from the spotlight and she would be under attack by these two men on this stage debating. and i think it is a huge danger for her if that was to happen. and so i do think, you know, bernie sanders should have felt pressure by the party not to push for that. but of course bernie sanders isn't a member of the democratic party. he's an independent. and there's very little the

democrats can do hence the problem they find themselves in. this is not good for hillary clinton to be fighting two wars at the same time. >> well, you throw in the fact the inspector general's report on hillary clinton and her e-mails, the fbi also focusing on that report. how does this fair going in as far as when you have bernie sanders supporters really -- in a "new york times" article saying this may be the answer to their prayers when it comes to bernie sanders chance. >> yeah. and, you know, i think the danger for democrats is that bernie sanders supporters really do feel that way. and yet if that is the case, you could see a massive split in the democratic party and handing this thing over to donald trump. so i think what is happening is very dangerous. and not surprising. bernie sanders has nothing to lose by keeping up this battle. and that's the problem for the democrats. he's never going to run again. there's nothing he can hold over his head in terms of the senate. he's not a democrat. so he will push this through. and you run into potentially a very divisive convention in philadelphia unlike what we may

see on the republican side. >> david, i want to ask you about that because we're talking about the division here when it comes to the party and bernie sanders here. you have the infighting that's going on surrounding him. now, formally demanding the disqualification -- we're talking two democratic party platform committee chairs, barney frank and governor mal y malloy, when you have those continued attacks on the party establishment at this point when you already have many saying that's been divisive on the party and him staying in the race is hurting overall, could this ultimately backfire for sanders even more? >> i think this has to really be put into historical context. we start talking about the democratic party. look, 1968, that was a divided democratic party where huge numbers of democrats opposed the vietnam war and huge numbers of democrats supported the war. you cannot find an issue in democratic politics today that divides people like that. everything that bernie sanders stands for you have gradations

of differences with hillary clinton supporters, but we are aligned on the issues. and we are aligned in our opposition to donald trump. there is far less animosity in terms of what we stand for today than there has been in prior democratic party presidential cycles. now, will this come to a head? yes, it will. i do think you're going to find a unified party coming out of the convention. that's a good thing. that's what those conventions are for. we're rallying around our nominee. and i say it again, the vast majority of bernie sanders supporters do not want to see donald trump become president. they will work with us. >> all right. well, you're talking about the con vings, but until then we have june 7th. a lot to watch there before polls close even in california could be decided in new jersey. so a lot for us to watch. david goodfriend, thank you so much for being with us and jeanne, you'll stick with me later on we'll talk about the republicans later. thank you. next, the efforts underway to find a third choice on the ballot. and we'll go live to orlando where the libertarian party convention is underway.

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historically the libertarian ticket in presidential elections has not been a factor, but that could all change this year as voters and their unease heightens over the prospect of voting for donald trump or hillary clinton. the party's national convention this weekend in orlando. that's where we find msnbc's tony dokoupil. tony, you've been introducing us to some of these candidates ahead of tonight's debate. one, i didn't realize, i have to admit more connected to computer antivirus software than a candidate. >> reporter: that's right, frances. moments ago we were in the delegate hall where the nomination for the libertarian party presidential candidate

will take place. moments ago there was a crucial vote determining who will participate in a debate tonight being aired on c-span, that's ahead of the final nomination vote tomorrow morning. two of those individual who is have made the cut to be in the debate tonight are with me now. austin peterson to my left and john mcafee. i want to give these gentlemen an opportunity to introduce themselves and the party of libertarianism. i think a lot of americans are hearing about it for the very first time. john, let's start with you, a lot of people are probably familiar with your antivirus software, but may also be familiar with an episode a few years ago in belize where you wanted for the alleged murder of a man. help us understand that somewhat checkered past and how it translates to a presidential campaign today. >> first off i was never wanted for murder. absolutely false. nevertheless does it matter? >> they questioned you to a dead man. >> they questioned everybody in the neighborhood. i chose not to be questioned. that's neither here nor there.

does it matter? with all of us i am not going to be elected president. and i'm not going to speak for you. no one else maybe -- >> you may not be elected president, but the libertarian party is polling well nationally right now. having a significant impact on the results in november. >> yes, no question. >> could steal votes from hillary clinton, bernie sanders or donald trump. >> but does it matter if we lose? if we lose, we lose. what i'm looking at we have a train, we're getting on it tomorrow. and it's dead stops in november. and we got to get off. we have this number of months to change america. we can do this. but not by believing that i'm going to enter the oval office. please, we are not that stupid. we can change it by reflecting the light on me to the things we can change, local elections, grassroots efforts. >> i want to go to austin for a second. first, one more question for you here, people don't know what the libertarian party is. 44% of people asked by pugh did not know how to define it. how do you define libertarianism?

what does it mean and where will you take it? >> libertarianism is based on principles that no one can misinterpret or deny number one our bodies and minds belong to us, number two, we shall not hurt one another. number three, don't take each other's stuff, in other words don't steal. and number four, keep your contracts and your words. keep your commitments. good lord, we can build anything from that. >> thank you very much. austin peterson, a very different kind of candidate just looking at you i can see you're quite a polished individual, from missouri, son of landown s landowners, former play write, been associated with fox news before. tell us about your background, what libertarianism means to you. >> i grew up in missouri on a horse farm. i was raised to respect the second amendment. i was raised to believe in the constitution and to love my country. and i'm running for president of the united states because i deeply believe in economic freedom and personal liberty. and what i really want to do is make the theme of my campaign that i want a government that is small enough to fit inside the confines of the constitution. i would like to restore checks and balances to the executive branch and constitutional

rights. basically the idea is that you should be able to do -- >> hold on one second. we just lost john mcafee for some reason. what's going on, john? >> i'm apparently speaking right now. >> he's giving a speech. thank you very much. good luck tonight. we'll check in with you tomorrow. glad your legal troubles have been -- >> be right up there, john. >> austin, who do you think you're going to take more votes away from? a likely hail lir clinton nomination or donald trump? >> so get this i just got an endorsement from mary mat lin. >> republican strategist. >> she's i'm pulling from donald trump zus as much as hillary clinton. >> that's what everyone says. it's equal. >> here's the truth in virginia a man ran as a libertarian and the post polling results showed he pulled more from democrats than he does from republicans. there's a lot of misconceptions about where libertarians come from. >> why would republicans vote for libertarians and why would democrats? >> because we believe in civil liberties, economic freedom, foreign policy, religious

liberty, we believe you own your life, own your body do with it as you please provided you harm no one else. >> thank you, austin. >> thanks for your time. >> a voter on the republican side who came over to libertarian party told me earlier this weekend that there were about 16 candidates at the beginning of all of this. 12 of them he wouldn't let baby sit his children. we're now down to about four. i don't know if they're babysitter qualified or not but they are running for president. we'll find out tomorrow which one represents the party. >> some colorful conversations you're having with those candidates. tony, thank you. we appreciate it. still to come, donald trump and his relationship with veterans. new questions this afternoon over his claims of giving a million dollars to veterans causes. why the presumptive gop nominee is under fire next. don't let dust and allergies get between you

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this is how it begins... with a mighty roar... that tells the world... we're coming for you. donald trump is coming urpd scrutiny from veterans this week after questions surfaced whether

he'd given $1 million of his own money to veterans causes like he claimed. only after "the washington post" and other outlets started digging trump on monday picked an organization to donate to. that was four months after he said he'd already cut the check. joining me now is iraq war veteran spokesman for votevets.org. shaw, thank you for being here as we talk about this. of course the back story donald trump saying he's going to skip the iowa debate for this fundraiser for veterans raising $6 million and then question about donating money and then he says after caught not doing so ultimately $1 million was given to marine corps law enforcement foundation there. what's your take on this months after that and this is where we're seeing as far as according to donald trump where the money went? >> shows that for us we look at veterans are not political props. we're not toys for anybody's campaign. show he doesn't really care about vets, six months, four months, almost five months after he said he raised the money not transparent about where it went and now being called out on it

he's backtracking and trying to cover his tracks. if he really cared he wouldn't have to be shamed into giving the money months after when he said he would give the money. >> it's interesting when it comes to these veterans groups and the ones protesting outside trump tower this week saying in your words used as props, their words as well, props for hate, but given that is there any surprise as far as the message given the controversial comments donald trump has said in the past john mccain even equating his kind of military themed boarding school as saying, you know what, i was trained better than some of the military as well. given that history of those kind of comments, is this any of a surprise at all? >> it's not a surprise at all. he trivializes the training and experience we went through. for him saying he received more training than guys like us that actually went and did the job, it's laughable. what he did to john mccain, a war hero, he said he's not a war hero. he likes people, plural, that weren't captured, right? so he's denigrating all the

prisoners of war who served before him. >> we heard from president obama saying earlier this week we're leaders in his words were rattled, rattled about donald trump's view on foreign policy. so how -- or veterans and even those in the military community reacting knowing ultimately when it comes to those positions, those policies, you've been there. you're going to be the guy actually carrying these out. >> correct. so words matter, right. we need a commander in chief who has a proper temperament to lead us. his bombastic rhetoric, what he does -- words have actions, at the end of the day what he says if it gets us into precarious situations it has negative ramifications for everybody in the military. >> well, where you see that's lacking do you think that's something that can be bridged with his running mate? when you hear he's talking to bob corker, foreign relations background or newt gingrich that may bridge out does that make it any better for you guys? >> obviously not because for us we see everyone he surrounded

himself with yes men throughout his whole career and overpowered the people he's ever been with. at the end of the day the final say-so goes to the commander in chief. if he's the commander in chief i don't feel a lot of trust and safety with him at the -- making those decisions for us. >> we've also interviewed other vets who have been strongly supportive of donald trump. they've been vocal about it as well. when you see that, what is your message to them? >> well, here's the thing, vets are like any other part of the population in america, right? you have people from the left, people from the right. i mean, ultimately you have to look at the actions. when it came down to in front of fifth avenue with the disabled veterans, he said, he wrote a letter to mayor bloomberg in 2004 whether veterans or not doesn't matter he wants them gone from that property because it takes away from the aura or the prestigprestige. >> so is there anyone you are

supporting? >> we don't feshlly endorse any candidates. me personally i have my own views, but votevets and a lot of other organizations specifically go for veteran -- so will never make an endorsement of a nonveteran candidate. >> we know how you feel about donald trump especially in light, again, of the protests that we've seen outside of trump tower. thank you so much, shaw. appreciate the time and also for your service in being with us here. >> thank you so much, frances. a holiday weekend of wild weather from america's midsection to the eastern seaboard. we'll have a look at the damage left behind by deadly storms in texas as people from the carolinas to florida brace for the impact of a tropical storm. we'll bring you the latest on both fronts. that's next. those hot dogs look good. oh yeah, hebrew national. they're all-beef like yours but they're also kosher. is that a big deal? i think so. because not just any beef goes into it. only certain cuts of kosher beef. i guess they're pretty choosy. oh, honey!

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to daytona beach. severe thunderstorms in kansas spun off trnornadoes. two people have died in massive flooding in texas. a vintage world war ii fighter plane crashed, the pilot died in that crash. we'll bring you a live report on that from the site in just a moment. but first, we're in the middle of one of the biggest holiday travel weekend of the year and comes as the tsa is facing backlash for delays because of long wait times at security checkpoints. an american airlines executive testified before congress this week that more than 70,000 of the airline's passengers missed flights because of excessive wait times. so far in 2016 another 40,000 checked bags were delayed in tsa screenings and did not travel on their scheduled flight. i want to bring in former deputy administrator for the tsa. john, good to have you with me as we look at those numbers. and given how airlines operate, the tsa operates and also the terror threat that we're seeing

in the world and even domestically these days, are those numbers inevitable? >> well, thank you for the opportunity to talk, frances. i think the thing is with security is there's always a battle between the commercial aspects and the security aspects. and what you have to try to do and that's what tsa tries to do is find that sweet spot where you're getting the right amount of security and not hindering commercial activities. too much security you're hurting the equation. i think right now tsa is changing some of its philosophy from a risk based philosophy to a one size fits all. that was done based on, i think, the report that came out last year. could be threat, could be any number of factors. they've made this decision, and to do that they're a little short on personnel. but i think they are adjusting based on a lot of the criticism out there. i know they shifted some assets. they're using more dogs. so they're trying to solve the

problem. when you look at it, really you're talking about eight to ten key hub airports out of the 450 tsa is in. >> this weekend many airports are expecting a record number of passengers and so far you've seen a mix of long lines and times people getting through security rather easily. but you mentioned that sweet spot there, that fine line of finding out and being able to expedite and get everybody through but also making sure that people's safety isn't at risk. does that sweet spot even exist? >> i think it does. you know, you have to look at it from a couple different perspectives. in a risk based model you need to understand 99% of the traveling public, probably 99.9% of the traveling public is not a terrorist. what tsa is trying to do is to find that spot where they understand that and are able to move people through quickly. i believe that spot is there, but it's very difficult. and it changes consistently. it changes based on threat. and right now you alluded to it,

we've had a couple of incidents overseas that they're looking at. and i think that changes some of the equation. and then you have a lack of personnel. tsa has personnel over a period of time over a risk based philosophy. so they're trying to catch up. it does exist. i think it's out there but it takes a combination of work not just from the government side but the stakeholder side, meaning airlines. one interesting point is if you look at what delta airlines is doing right now, they're in atlanta. they're helping tsa with innovation lanes. the airline is helping tsa speed up the security process. >> i want to ask you in the little time we have the option especially when it comes to tsa when you're saying it's understaffed shifting to private contractors, do you think that will be the case in other airports with a handful already looking at that? and what is the risk there of outsourcing? >> so, you know, san francisco and kansas city are private

screening companies. when you look at the analysis, they're pretty much the same. always remember when you have a private screening company, tsa is still in charge at the airport of those private screeners. they're the ones that write the s.o.p. and ensure come plins. cost is about the same. there's no real difference. i don't think one does it better than the other. there are people tell you private screening is better, tsa is still in charge at the airport. and they're still functioning under tsa leadership. >> all right. >> with those private screeners. >> all right. we thank you for helping us understand the challenges they face. >> thank you for your time. now i want to take you back to the story we're following that vintage world war ii fighter plane that crashed off new york city into the hudson river. nbc's morgan radford is in manhattan where the site of the plane went down. morgan, any indication as to what may have caused this plane to plunge into the hudson? >> reporter: frances, it appears it was a mechanical error.

in fact, last night at 7:30 p.m. that's when 56-year-old pilot bill gordon's plane went into the hudson here just behind me. bystanders looked in horror as they said the plane took a nose dive straight into the water, bounced twice, smoke was coming from the plane. and they said they could actually see the pilot, frances, trying to escape from that plane. but unfortunately it was too late. authorities arrived at the scene. they were able to recover the plane and the pilot's body was still inside three hours later. now, this morning they were able to lift the plane from the waters. you could see the cranes are still here on the dock. they attach it to a barge, took it to lower manhattan and that's where it's currently on a dock being inspected. frances, i took a look at that plane today. and it was remarkable. for a plane that was entered into commission in 1942 there was virtually no visible damage. the wings were still intact, the wings were slightly bent. but for the severity of this accident the plane had virtually no damage. and just to give you some context, bill gordon was a pilot who'd been doing these air shows

for 25 years. and he was actually performing in a memorial day air show to celebrate the 75th anniversary of this small world war ii plane entering into commission. so it was sad today to see the memorial that the other pilots held for him on memorial day weekend, frances. >> tough for those witnesses to watch that pilot leading to the conflicting reports right when it happened if he was still alive or if he was safe. nbc's morgan radford, appreciate the update. thank you. next, back to politics and the question over the power of protest. more than 30 arrests yesterday and demonstrations against donald trump in california leaving concerns about what's to come at the party's convention in cleveland. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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with tums chewy delights. the mouthwatering soft chew that goes to work in seconds to conquer heartburn fast. tum tum tum tum. chewy delights. only from tums. ncht less than a day after donald trump clinched the republican nomination, protests began outside of his rallies in fresno and san diego. protesters at times clashing with police. in san diego 35 people were arrested. joining me to discuss the

campaign is political analyst and former speech writer for former senate majority leader bill frist and also back with us pollster of professor campaign management at nyu. ladies, good to have you with me as we delve into this this afternoon. amy, let's start with you in talking about this protest, we've seen it before and nothing new. and when trump even says get them out of here, but certainly doesn't bode well when it comes to this point forward here. if you are a republican and see this what is the worry, the concern this is what it may look like from here on out? >> well, there are two sides to this. trump, he argues and i think he's right that these protests actually play into his campaign theme of making america great again, law and order had a reporter there reporting that. and also when protesters are wearing guy fox masks basically advocating for anarchy, or waving mexican flags, again, that plays into donald trump's campaign message when it comes to illegal immigration. and the violence, attacking police officers. and there was something new in san diego where protesters

attacked donald trump's convoy. they actually attacked his car. so if i'm a down bout republican i look at that and see and parse which parts of this works for me and if you have constituents concerned with the chaos surrounding the donald trump candidacy, if i was that down ballot republican i would say this is something we need to put a stop to this lawlessness. >> especially when you look at where these are happening in california, 20 miles from the mexican border here, especially when it comes to these protests, what if you're a down ballot republican who needs the hispanic vote and this is what we're seeing? >> i think you would denounce the protesters and advocate for your position on immigration. >> okay. let's talk about now that we're at the point where donald trump is saying, nope, not going to debate using the words inappropriate when it comes to bernie sanders. ultimately, when you look at who would have favored that would have happened or even now, does it seem like he's trying to wiggle out of it, you know, in that sense when he comes out

saying, yes, i will and then the back and forth? >> yeah, you know, he did a yes, i will, if $10 million was put up. and then i'm certain the campaign came back and said, no, this would not be a good idea. so you read his remarks or his press release where he said, you know, talked about crazy hillary clinton and talked about the democrats and said, you know what, bernie sanders isn't going to win because they are so corrupt. so i'm going to wait and debate the front-runner. >> right. >> so, you know, i think this would have been a problem for donald trump. he hasn't had a one-on-one debate if you think about it. he would have maybe had a tough time with a bernie sanders. and what does a donald trump campaign really get out of bernie sanders-donald trump debate? bernie sanders needs the air time, the free media. donald trump does not. >> hillary clinton was the one to lose in all othis because she's out of the conversation. >> yes. >> talking about bernie sanders and donald trump, where does that leave her? >> and democrats very angry with bernie sanders for agreeing to do this debate with donald trump

because gives the impression that we're in the general now and bernie sanders is the nominee. >> i'm surprised you would think it would be bad for donald trump. i don't think donald trump has ever been any good at any of these debates, but he's been tefl teflon. and i think you could see bernie sanders, well, if it was going to happen, i'm calling this the best debate of 2016 that we'll never see. >> especially when you have people from his own party, senator joe manchin with those choice words kind of bull expletive in saying the possibility of that debate is that. >> and i would just ask what would he get out of it, right? famously a front-runner, he has the nomination. what would he possibly gain? >> i can answer that. i think that he would have the opportunity to make his pitch directly to bernie sanders' supporters, which he has been doing on the campaign trail and in his public remarks. and supporting bernie sanders and saying, listen, i think you should run as the independent you are if you don't get this nomination because of the rigged democratic system. and we even see polling data say in west virginia where 44% of

bernie sanders supporters said they would be open for voting for donald trump. and for the two of those men to also beat up on hillary, i think trump could have gotten a lot out of it. >> the way to look at this as we carry this conversation is looking at donald trump and his management style of his campaign. you have robert costa, sean sullivan at t"the washington post" talking with ed robins about his style of management and came up with this quote here, he said one day manafort goes up and corey gets set back. the next day corey can move up to the forefront, trump is at the center and watching and seeing it all. what is this reflection of campaign here and you're hearing those words and hearing that said, is that something you want heading into the general? >> this is inside baseball voters really don't care about. all the many political campaigns are full of, you know, sort of inside, back stabbing turf wars and all of this chaos. we remember back in 2000 al gore

shook up his campaign and moved to tennessee. and in 2008 we were told no drama obama, but that hasn't necessarily translated into his, you know, being an effective governor. >> but then take to the extent of ground game and saying where is it, what is it when it comes to donald trump leading into this. that's where many will say, you know, he's lacking in that point. >> yeah, i mean, this has been the challenge for the trump campaign. on the plus side this is all about donald trump. forget about anybody else on this campaign. he calls the shots. on the negative side he has challenges. he has not raised the money he needs to raise to run a general election because he has not had the team in place until very, very recently to do that. so he does have some challenges with his management. i agree with amy completely, people on the ground could care less who's running these campaigns. >> they don't know these people's names. they don't care. >> but might say something about what he might do as president. right? think about it, he had his first selection as who he was going to, you know, make -- hire. that was his big thing. he hires the right people. he hires chris christie to run

the transition team the day before chris christie is called to the carpet for bridgegate again. and the hires he made as governor. so, you know, you think about how donald trump is running this campaign and you have to think if you look at it it does raise questions about -- >> wait a minute, we were told back in 2008 that president obama would be a great executive because he ran this, you know, smooth campaign apparatus. and yet as president we have seen that he has floundered, he's hesitated in making decisions, he doesn't even like reaching out to the leadership of his own party on capitol hill, as "new york times" has famously reported, keeping harry reid, senate majority leader on the phone. he has not necessarily been an effective hands-on legislator. >> newt gingrich, can bob corker be that bridge to this gap? >> to capitol hill? bob corker possibly for senate republicans, newt gingrich, he's been out of it for a long time. >> ticket for a possible v.p. run. >> newt gingrich in 2012 he only

won go georgia. i'm not sure what he adds to a donald trump ticket. >> newt gingrich i think reinforces the questions about donald trump's temperament. i think you're much better off with a bob corker or somebody who is respected on capitol hill by republicans. newt gingrich has the same temperament issues that donald trump has. and i don't know what that really adds to the ticket. as amy mentioned, he also hasn't been on capitol hill for many, many years. is he a real bridge to republicans on the hill? probably not at this point. >> and a lot of republicans they complained that he went weak in the knees for bill clinton. >> oh. wish we had more time to talk about it. leave it with that. ladies, thank you. as always great to have you with me here onset. well, another state joins the list becoming the 12th to file suit against the obama administration over its directive to allow transgender students to use the bathroom they identify with at public schools across america. we'll take a deeper look at the debate and it pact tmpact the f

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>> texas is leading the lawsuit to block the policy. joining me now is ava. i appreciate your time here. certainly you know this. certainly not a new issue in texas. in houston a proposition that would legalize transgender bathroom access. it was struck down and here's the political ad that ran during that time and i want to talk about on the other side. >> any man at any time could enter a woman's bathroom by claiming to be a woman that day. no one is exempt. even registered sex offenders could follow women or young girls into a bathroom and if a

business tried to stop them they would be fined. protect women's privacy. vote no on the proposition 1 bathroom ordinance. >> so those that are advocates of the community say what's wrong with that message is that it is likening people transgender people to sex offenders or predators. what's your take on that? >> well, it certainly is an emotional issue on all sides from those that are supporting the measures and those that are against it. and when you're talking about it in context of public schools, the tensions step it up a notch so we have seen that here locally in the ft. worth school district where that's been the center of discussion some some guidelines they have issued for their treatment of transgender students. >> you know, lieutenant governor has been vocal about it now. what's the sense that you're getting in texas about how people responding to the battle between texas and the obama

administration. >> it's very split depending on who you talk to and where you go. certainly in ft. worth when there was an issue they had school board meeting where hundreds of people lined up to talk about it and there was probably evenly divided on both sides. texas has joined the lawsuit as well. so i'm sure in the next coming months we'll hear more from folks. there's been some superintendents that made their views well-known that they are against this obama directive and that they don't want to participate in it and they won't follow it and then there's others that said they're not going to take the bait and be part of this political fire storm that's brewing up around this. >> and when you see adding to that fire storm, you talk about how many times texas has sued the obama administration. it's been nine times since president obama took office. is this simply using this as

politics in play. what it come do you understand to is local control of his district and doing what he thinks is right for his students. what happens in the meantime and as a result of this lawsuit it's going to be very interesting to follow. >> even more so when you factor in general election and politics overall and now texas has been involved but then you see tennessee one of the latest to make it 12 states. how will this be a wedge issue for the general. and we are going to see it in a

lot more different political aren arenas. >> on the local level as well as you have been covering it. thank you so much. a reporter for the dallas morning news. thank you. >> thanks so much. >> that does it for me. i'm at msnbc world headquaters in new york. i'll see you back here at 9:00 a.m. eastern time tomorrow. meantime richard picks up our coverage, next. (engine winding up) (pilot talking to tower on radio) once you get out here... there's just one direction... forward. one time: now. and there's just one sound. you and us... together. telling the world... we're coming for you.

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>> at this hour aiming for an upset. bernie sanders campaigning hard this weekend with polls that show him closing the gap with hillary clinton. party intrigue. sanders calling for two democratic heavyweights to step down from the committee. protesting trump. dozens of arrests outside his campaign events just miles from the mexican border. could this scene be repeated in clevelanat